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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Lt 26
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 02/19/09

Loc: Northwest Illinois
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: coopman]
      #5528881 - 11/19/12 09:43 PM

I think we can all blame Tele Vue for the continued use of the undercut whether or not they invented it. What I don't understand is why they continue to when well over 90% of their customers would like them to stop. Do they know something we don't or are they intentionally being cruel.

If they offered them both ways I don't think it would take very long for them to figure out they have been ticking off folks long enough.

Dereck


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
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Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Lt 26]
      #5528887 - 11/19/12 09:46 PM

AMEN !!!

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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Lt 26]
      #5528897 - 11/19/12 09:51 PM

Quote:


If they offered them both ways I don't think it would take very long for them to figure out they have been ticking off folks long enough.

Dereck




And I think they would have a tremendous inventory problem with undercut eyepieces.

TeleVue would have an even larger problem if the Cloners listened to the customers and offered smoothies.

Edited by Jeff Morgan (11/19/12 09:53 PM)


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Jim Romanski
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5528954 - 11/19/12 10:14 PM

Quote:

Personally I like eyepieces with undercuts...



I'm with Jon. I prefer them on my heavier eyepieces. It has saved more than one expensive Televue eyepiece for me.

I don't know when the practice started but I bought a 20mm Type II Nagler that had one. Later I inherited an older version of the 20mm Type II that did NOT have an undercut. When I went to sell one of them on Astromart I gave the buyer the choice of which one they wanted and they asked for the one with the undercut.

I don't really have a problem removing my eyepieces. I've gotten used to loosening the compression ring a couple of turns rather than a half turn. I will say that the newer Televues with the beveled undercut work better.


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: GeneT]
      #5529426 - 11/20/12 06:07 AM

Quote:

I like to move quickly changing out eyepieces. I am careful beyond belief, careful to the point of obsession. I find that the undercuts actually increase (for me) the possibility of dropping an eyepiece. I have the eyepiece in tow, am going to swap it out--and it hangs up getting past the focusser. I then have to play with it to get it home free. All that increases the chance that I will drop it. If the eyepiece just slid out easily, it, for me, would be quicker and safer.
PS--I am talking about TeleVue Naglers, Delos, and Radian eyepieces here.




I change eyepieces frequently, generally using several for any given object. But I don't rush things, like any mechanical component that is a close fit, slow, smooth and steady is best. I just don't have much trouble with getting the eyepieces in an out of focusers... On any given night, I spend more time fussing with 2 inch filter threads than I do with undercuts.

I am glad I don't seem to have the same problems with undercuts, the rest of you do... or maybe I have the same problems, they just don't bother me... don't know. Last night, I spent a couple of hours in the backyard with 3 different telescopes, viewing double stars, Jupiter and various DSOs... lots of eyepiece changes, lots of undercuts... zero hangups.

Jon


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5529459 - 11/20/12 06:47 AM

A good way to avoid hanging up on the undercuts is to keep a nice Zoom eyepiece in the focuser for most of the observing session. Less changes, less hangups. Sigmund Freud would be proud. Sehr gut!

My Baader Zoom sees so much sky time, I can't even recall if it has an undercut...


Mike


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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5529494 - 11/20/12 07:12 AM

Quote:

A good way to avoid hanging up on the undercuts is to keep a nice Zoom eyepiece in the focuser for most of the observing session. Less changes, less had ngups. Sigmund Freud would be proud. Sehr gut!

My Baader Zoom sees so much sky time, I can't even recall if it has an undercut...


Mike




Mike you beat me to it, I was just about to say the same i.e., use a no-need-to-swap-EP's zoom!

Best,


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5529545 - 11/20/12 08:00 AM

Quote:

A good way to avoid hanging up on the undercuts is to keep a nice Zoom eyepiece in the focuser for most of the observing session. Less changes, less hangups. Sigmund Freud would be proud. Sehr gut!

My Baader Zoom sees so much sky time, I can't even recall if it has an undercut...


Mike




When they finally get the prototype 31mm-1.75mm, 82degree AFoV Zoom that is well corrected at F/4 into production, it would be of interest. Until then, I'll be swapping eyepieces...

Jon


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5529567 - 11/20/12 08:16 AM

My Baader Zoom is good enough for 90% of what's up there. Optics or objects? I'm more concerned with the objects.

For the big stuff, I switch to my wide field ES eyepieces. For really dim stuff, I might try a good ortho, XW or XO.

Mike


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
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Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5529573 - 11/20/12 08:22 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

I tried the Baader Zoom last Friday. Edge correction was so-so. I liked it at the 8mm setting, but in zooming back to the 24mm setting felt very restricted. I'm glad I tried it before I bought it because I didn't like it at all.

YMMV...

As you can see here, no safety undercuts to worry about at all!



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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Lt 26]
      #5529624 - 11/20/12 09:06 AM

Quote:

I think we can all blame Tele Vue for the continued use of the undercut whether or not they invented it. What I don't understand is why they continue to when well over 90% of their customers would like them to stop.




It's not even 90% in this thread, not sure where you are getting that idea. I agree with Jon, the undercut causes me no problems. Using an equatorial mount I often find the diagonal pointing at the ground after a slew so I can see its utility.

Not sure why you would blame TV; I've seen undercuts on a variety of premium and nonpremium brands, including Zeiss.


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5529630 - 11/20/12 09:08 AM

Obviously not every eyepiece is for everyone, just as not every eyepiece is for every object or application. That's why I still hang on to my wide fields, my XO's, my bino pairs, and even my Huygens. I've only sold eyepieces that come close to duplicating another eyepiece's function and focal length ... or that didn't appeal to me for some reason.

For me, absolutely pristine sharpness to the edge is not always important for every object I'm observing. It just isn't. (Though the Baader Zoom is not bad.) And a wide field is not always necessary. I let the objects dictate the optics.

Also, I'm able to observe at my dark site only once or twice a month if I'm lucky. It just makes more sense - for my purposes - to avoid switching among eyepieces when I only have a limited amount of time to observe all the objects that I want to observe. Usually I only switch to another eyepiece when it makes sense in terms of that object, not in terms of what I expect out of the optics.

Mike


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JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5529838 - 11/20/12 11:04 AM

Let's hear it for the smooth barrels!

Jim


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Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5529996 - 11/20/12 12:09 PM

The occasional anti-undercut thread is welcome and always entertaining!

I often use under-mounted scopes and therefore have gone to great lengths to purge all undercut eyepieces out of my case - I once paid $150 to get a smooth barrel made for my 35mm Panoptic. It just takes a little extra commitment to beat this annoying problem.

By using some vintage and carefully selected modern ep's, I currently have around 25 eyepieces - the only ones with undercut are the 3 Pentax XW's. Unfortunately they have lenses in the barrels or I'd try to replace them too.


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dscarpa
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Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: 5u4]
      #5530035 - 11/20/12 12:25 PM

I suspect differences in diagonals or focusers compression ring set up has an effect on hang up issues. I've got 2 OPT dialectric and one Meade dialectric diagonals all 2". So far I don't have any hang up issues getting eyepieces out of my newish Antares 1.25"-2" twist-lock adapters of which I have 3 and am using in place of the ones that came with the diagonals. As to eyepieces with a deep sharp edged undercut add the 31 Hyperion Aspheric to the list. David

Edited by dscarpa (11/20/12 12:37 PM)


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5530051 - 11/20/12 12:32 PM

Quote:

I suspect differences in diagonals or focusers compression ring set up has an effect on hang up issues. I've got 2 OPT dielectric and one Meade dielectric all 2". As to eyepieces with a deep sharp edged undercut add the 31 Hyperion Aspheric to the list. David



Eyepieces vary in size and so do focusers and star diagonals, so some fits might be tight while others are loose.
And some brass ring inserts in focusers and star diagonals are rectangular in cross-section. They also work just as well if the brass ring is more lenticular in cross section. Try removing the ring and sanding down the edges to make them thinner than the centers and the hang up on eyepiece barrels is virtually eliminated.
Or, simply remove the brass ring and have the thumbscrew press directly on the eyepiece. It will mean marks on the eyepiece (who really cares?), but the "safety retention groove" won't be the issue it is when the brass ring is in place.


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dscarpa
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Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: 5u4]
      #5530058 - 11/20/12 12:36 PM

Thanks for the tip! David

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5530067 - 11/20/12 12:38 PM

Quote:

My Baader Zoom is good enough for 90% of what's up there. Optics or objects? I'm more concerned with the objects.

For the big stuff, I switch to my wide field ES eyepieces. For really dim stuff, I might try a good ortho, XW or XO.

Mike




Mike:

It all depends on your mind set... If one limits the objects to those that are visible with a 8-24mm zoom, then yeah... but that doesn't work for me.

Jon Isaacs


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dscarpa
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Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: 5u4]
      #5530075 - 11/20/12 12:46 PM

I like my Hyperion Zoom a lot but on very good nights the difference in image quality between it and my XWs, Delos, Ethos and LVW is not subtle. David

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csrlice12
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Who invented the barrel safety undercut? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5530085 - 11/20/12 12:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A good way to avoid hanging up on the undercuts is to keep a nice Zoom eyepiece in the focuser for most of the observing session. Less changes, less hangups. Sigmund Freud would be proud. Sehr gut!

My Baader Zoom sees so much sky time, I can't even recall if it has an undercut...


Mike




When they finally get the prototype 31mm-1.75mm, 82degree AFoV Zoom that is well corrected at F/4 into production, it would be of interest. Until then, I'll be swapping eyepieces...

Jon




and if they could do it for the same $50 price as the Zhummel 8-24mm zoom, that would be a best seller....everybody would want one.....


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