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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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ThomasM
sage


Reged: 04/19/09

Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression
      #5602836 - 01/03/13 11:54 AM

The new Baader classic ortho became recently available, I got the 10mm focal length a few days after Christmas. According to Baader it replaces the Baader Genuine Orthos (BGO). The price of the BCO is significantly lower than that of the BGO, 55 Euro compared to 95 Euro for the BGO which are not available any more.

BillP posted already a review on pre production eyepieces

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5324232/page...

which indicated very a promising performance. What I am presenting here is an initial impression of the performance of a production eyepiece based on daytime observations with a very small f/6.5 mm refractor. The eyepieces comes with a winged rubber eyecup. Its apparent field of few is almost 50 degree (measured field stop diameter 8.7 mm), this significantly larger than that of other orthos. I have compared the 10 mm BCO with the 9 mm BGO and the 12 mm Kasai HD ortho which seems to be essentially identical with the 12.5 mm BGO. The built quality is on a little bit lower than that of the BGO, but very reasonable in view of the low price.
The eyelense of the 10 mm BCO is larger than that of the 12 mm Kasai, eye placement is very easy and comfortable. Since the focal lengths are not identical I can give only a very general impression. In the center the image is very crisp, the background (artifical star) is quite dark, scattered light is well controlled, comparable to the BGO. At the outermost edge the image gets a little bit soft. The coatings are very nice, they seem to me at least as dark as that of the BGOs. The transmission at 532 nm wavelength is very good, I measured 97 % (compared to 96.-96.8 % for the Zeiss Abbe 10 mm between 500 and 550 nm wavelength taken from the table by M. Ludes).

In summary, the 10 mm BCO is an excellent ortho eyepiece, optical on the same level as the BGO. Personally, I find the larger AFOV very nice.

Thomas


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BillP
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5602842 - 01/03/13 11:57 AM

The off-axis should be soft...by design! Baader extended the field stop to open it up to a wider 50 degrees. Concept was to give larger FOV to make finding easier. The design was not changed to better correct this extra off-axis since only intent was to assist newbies to locate targets easier and move them into the sharper traditional 42 degree zone of an Abbe.

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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5603063 - 01/03/13 01:56 PM

Thanks for the review! Sounds great, especially since it appears that the Circle T orthos are almost kaput. It will be interesting to directly compare these BCOs to the Circle T/UO Abbe Ortho/KK volcanos and the soon-to-be-released Kasai HC Orthos (BGO/UO HD clones).

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t.r.
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Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5603088 - 01/03/13 02:09 PM

I never thought it would happen...the demise of the Circle "T"'s is a sad time.

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howard929
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Reged: 01/02/11

Loc: Low End of High Ground
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: t.r.]
      #5603385 - 01/03/13 05:07 PM

A king has his reign, then he dies. It's inevitable.

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John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: howard929]
      #5603556 - 01/03/13 07:19 PM

Interesting feedback

I have been sent a set of the 3 Classic orthos, the 32mm plossl, the 2.25x barlow plus some Baader GO's to compare with them.

I agree with your assessment of the build / finish quality. I'm clouded out at the moment though so no first light with them as yet


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5603640 - 01/03/13 08:09 PM

Nice initial impression report, thanks. The relatively wider AFOV is a welcome feature.

Looking forward to reports on the 6-10-18-32mm set & 2.25x barlow, thanks.

Best,


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John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5603697 - 01/03/13 09:05 PM

The wider AFoV does not appear to extend to the Baader Classic 32mm plossl. The one I have been sent looks much more like 45 degrees to me.

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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5603765 - 01/03/13 09:57 PM

Hmm.., if so, then it's a departure from the usual 50-52 deg. AFoV of 32mm plossls.

Best,


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John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5603774 - 01/03/13 10:02 PM

I've roughly measured the field stop of the Classic 32mm plossl at approx 24-25mm. The Tele Vue 32mm plossl is 27mm.

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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5603989 - 01/04/13 01:33 AM

Thanks for the info, let us know how they perform, thanks.

Best,


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BillP
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5604386 - 01/04/13 09:34 AM

FYI, Alpine has some in stock now. Just ordered the Q-Turret set for myself.

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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5604432 - 01/04/13 10:05 AM

So I've heard that the BCO's have arrived on US shores today, although only a portion of their backordered quantity, but they have enough to get quite a few out there into folk's hands.

Best,


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5606135 - 01/05/13 08:50 AM

Just a speculation as to why the Classic plossl 32mm might have a narrower than 50-deg. AFoV - the lenses can be about as large as what the body’s barrel dimension will permit. In order to get a larger field, a larger barrel would be needed, and probably a different eyecup too, which would equate to higher cost for larger lenses. Such is also the case with the Clave 30mm plossl if not mistaken. The Barrel OD may be similar to the Classic Plossl, and the field size would be about 45-deg too, whereas the shorter Clave focal lengths had 50-deg fields of view just like the BCO's. To keep the selling price within reasonable limits, there are plenty of design tradeoffs and considerations applied, and these may possibly be the reason for the narrower FOV for the Classic 32mm plossl.

Best,


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SteveTheSwede
member


Reged: 09/28/09

Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5606929 - 01/05/13 04:33 PM

It would be interesting to hear how the BCO 32mm plossl compares to the TV 32mm plossl.

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CelestronDaddy
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/22/09

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5606937 - 01/05/13 04:40 PM

I've been waiting on these to get to the U.S. Thanks for the update and I look forward to reading about more impressions of the Baader orthos and plossls...

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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5607282 - 01/05/13 08:56 PM

Quote:

It would be interesting to hear how the BCO 32mm plossl compares to the TV 32mm plossl.




Yes, very much so, as I have a pair of the Televue 32mm plossls.



Best,


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Radim
sage


Reged: 11/06/05

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: t.r.]
      #5607774 - 01/06/13 05:02 AM

Quote:

I never thought it would happen...the demise of the Circle "T"'s is a sad time.




Guys, what falls into that category? Just cant remember what Circle T stands for ....

Thanks

Radim

Edited by Radim (01/06/13 05:03 AM)


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catboat
professor emeritus
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Reged: 12/01/09

Loc: Maine
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Radim]
      #5607786 - 01/06/13 05:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I never thought it would happen...the demise of the Circle "T"'s is a sad time.




Guys, what falls into that category? Just cant remember what Circle T stands for ....

Thanks

Radim




Circle-T (Tani) was the workshop that produced many of the Japanese orthos, kellners, and erfles that were sold since about 1970 (?) under various labels: University Optics, Kokusai Kohki, Orion, Coulter, Edscorp, Celestron and others.

For many like myself, the UO abbe orho is perhaps the best known and the most emblematic Circle-T product. We knew they were produced by a small shop but never expected them to be "no longer available".

A separate thread on all the Circle-T models and their various re-seller brands would be timely.


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Radim
sage


Reged: 11/06/05

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: catboat]
      #5607840 - 01/06/13 07:37 AM

Thanks catboat for your clarification!

Edited by Radim (01/06/13 07:38 AM)


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johnnyha
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Radim]
      #5610581 - 01/07/13 05:00 PM

More initial impressions on Stargazer's Lounge ... looks promising!

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ThomasM
sage


Reged: 04/19/09

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5617757 - 01/11/13 06:39 PM

After ten days of rains, clouds and snow the first clear sky.

My first impression, the 10 mm BGO is gives very plaesing views. Great contrast, black sky background and razar sharp in the center. With an aparent field of view of 50 degree it can also be used for deep sky viewing. It differs substantially from the tunnel view of many other orthos. Sure, at the edged the image is slightly soft.

All in all, the image quality is very similar to that of the 9 mm Baader Genuine Ortho.

Thomas


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5617873 - 01/11/13 07:45 PM

I am looking forward to reports on (and availability of) the Baader Q-Turret!

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DaveJ
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/07/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5618752 - 01/12/13 10:29 AM

Quote:

I am looking forward to reports on (and availability of) the Baader Q-Turret!




Got an email from Agena this morning. They should have them in stock shortly.

Edited by DaveJ (01/12/13 03:40 PM)


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SteveTheSwede
member


Reged: 09/28/09

Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5618916 - 01/12/13 11:52 AM

Here's something mysterious though...

The whole kit (Baader Classic Q-eyepiece set) with eyepieces, barlow and Q-turret costs 349 Euro direct from Baaders site.
If, however, I add up the cost for the separate pieces (55 + 55 + 55 + 55 + 49 + 75) that comes to 344.

The kit also contains a fairly pointless tin box which can be bought for 10 Euro. In other words, unless you want the box it's cheaper to buy the items separately...



Steve


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Dave Ittner
sage
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Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5618923 - 01/12/13 11:55 AM

but haven't you been following the "drama" ?
boxes are the new gold.


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SteveTheSwede
member


Reged: 09/28/09

Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5618925 - 01/12/13 11:57 AM

I did see something about that yes, but in that case, how about just getting the box for 10 Euro and save the other 339

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Dave Ittner
sage
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Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5618967 - 01/12/13 12:19 PM

hmmm, that is a cool looking box.

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SteveTheSwede
member


Reged: 09/28/09

Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5618973 - 01/12/13 12:21 PM

I'm gonna wait for someone here to review the box myself.

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csrlice12
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5619355 - 01/12/13 04:08 PM

Well, that box has already lost half it's value; it's been opened and all the clouds have been allowed to escape!!

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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5620091 - 01/13/13 01:12 AM

Quote:


The kit also contains a fairly pointless tin box which can be bought for 10 Euro.




Questtion - Does the tin box available for 10 Euro's have "Baader" marked on it? If not, there's not much value for it from the point of view of the EP box "collector" and would rather pay a bit more to have the "official" box.


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Mariner@sg
sage
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Reged: 06/28/12

Loc: Little Red Dot
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5620097 - 01/13/13 01:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:


The kit also contains a fairly pointless tin box which can be bought for 10 Euro.




Questtion - Does the tin box available for 10 Euro's have "Baader" marked on it? If not, there's not much value for it from the point of view of the EP box "collector" and would rather pay a bit more to have the "official" box.




You can make out the Baader logos on the lid (just above the clear window) and also the side of the box.


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Mariner@sg]
      #5620135 - 01/13/13 02:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


The kit also contains a fairly pointless tin box which can be bought for 10 Euro.




Questtion - Does the tin box available for 10 Euro's have "Baader" marked on it? If not, there's not much value for it from the point of view of the EP box "collector" and would rather pay a bit more to have the "official" box.




You can make out the Baader logos on the lid (just above the clear window) and also the side of the box.




You're right, and it's plain to see. The question is whether or not the Euro 10 replacement box (which is supposed to be identical to the Baader box) has the same "Baader" prints, which I suppose is not on the generic box and thus of no value to the "EP box collector."

Best,


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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5624118 - 01/15/13 10:18 AM

Bob Luffel is holding two sets of 6mm, 10mm, 18mm BCO's for me if I want them. I already use two sets of nearly matching focal length Tak LE's (5,7.5,10,12.5,18mm). Would the BCO's be a worthy upgrade over the LE's on my A-P F/8 175EDF, singularly and bino-viewing?

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payner
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 03/22/07

Loc: Bluegrass Region, Kentucky
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5624476 - 01/15/13 02:04 PM

I can't answer your comparative question Peter. I can say I have used Tak LEs for years and compared them to other designs and I really appreciate the views, contrast, good selection of focal lengths and comfortable eye relief they offer.

Best,
Randy


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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: payner]
      #5624510 - 01/15/13 02:21 PM

I agree with you. I don't understand why LE's don't get more discussion and comparison in the Eyepieces forum. During one extended observing session with Jupiter with my new A-P 175EDF, I enjoyed using my 7.5, 10, and 12.5 LE's with Mark V bino. I also was using my TV Plossl's and Brandon's but the 10mm and 7.5mm LE's were providing the right power on the bino that night and showing better detail and tones. LE's are very sharp and the eye relief is welcome for tired eyes after a few hours with shorter-eye relief Plossl's and Brandon's, although their warmer color on planets might offend some.

Quote:

I can't answer your comparative question Peter. I can say I have used Tak LEs for years and compared them to other designs and I really appreciate the views, contrast, good selection of focal lengths and comfortable eye relief they offer.

Best,
Randy




Edited by Peter Natscher (01/15/13 03:01 PM)


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keroppilee
member


Reged: 09/14/12

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5624529 - 01/15/13 02:29 PM

anyone actually get a BCO yet? looking forward to more impressions!

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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobia, Maryland, USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: keroppilee]
      #5625335 - 01/15/13 10:24 PM

I received a BCO 10mm yesterday. I wanted a pair for binoviewing, but I was lucky to get the last 10mm in stock at EyepiecesEtc.com. (Thanks, Don!)

So far I haven't been able to find another vendor that actually has any, though you would not know it from reading their websites. Come on. If you don't have an item, admit it, vendors! I don't want to learn about your lack of stock in a follow-up email. Some vendors do keep an up-to-date and honest stock status on their websites. Many do not.

Of course, after getting the new eyepiece, we have had nothing but rain and fog here.


Mike


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5625353 - 01/15/13 10:32 PM

Mike, congrats, it's so good to know that you've received your BCO 10mm; for a minute there, I thought you've given up on trying to acquire one. Looking forward to your 1st light report!

Best,


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simpleisbetter
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 04/18/11

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5625555 - 01/16/13 01:29 AM

Well just put in my order through Agenda tonight for the set so curious to see how long it'll take.

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Traveler
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/19/07

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5625569 - 01/16/13 02:02 AM

If the BCO ep series are at least on pair with my BGO 7mm, then i would like to buy some of them. I use the 7 a lot on planets.
After using it last saterday on Jupiter, i concluded (again)that the BGO 7mm is a marvelous ep. These are exciting times. I wonder how good the BCO barlow will be as well.


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobia, Maryland, USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5625748 - 01/16/13 08:17 AM

Hernando,

Ideally, I wanted two of the BCO 10mm for binoviewing. I already have a BGO 6mm and a bino pair of BGO 18mm, so I didn't feel a need for the BCO 6 or 18.

But now I'm in pursuit of a second BCO 10 for the binoviewer. So far I've ordered from two different companies (HPS and Adorama). Both showed status as in stock, ready to ship, ships in three days or some such on their websites. And both sent me emails the very next day saying the BCO 10 is not actually in stock and they are not sure when the eyepiece would be available.

The game is afoot!

Mike


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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5625908 - 01/16/13 10:10 AM

I'm going ahead and ordering two each of the 6mm, 10mm, and 18mm BCOs for binoviewing.

Quote:

Hernando,

Ideally, I wanted two of the BCO 10mm for binoviewing. I already have a BGO 6mm and a bino pair of BGO 18mm, so I didn't feel a need for the BCO 6 or 18.

But now I'm in pursuit of a second BCO 10 for the binoviewer. So far I've ordered from two different companies (HPS and Adorama). Both showed status as in stock, ready to ship, ships in three days or some such on their websites. And both sent me emails the very next day saying the BCO 10 is not actually in stock and they are not sure when the eyepiece would be available.

The game is afoot!

Mike




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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5626053 - 01/16/13 11:49 AM

Quote:

Hernando,

Ideally, I wanted two of the BCO 10mm for binoviewing. I already have a BGO 6mm and a bino pair of BGO 18mm, so I didn't feel a need for the BCO 6 or 18.

But now I'm in pursuit of a second BCO 10 for the binoviewer. So far I've ordered from two different companies (HPS and Adorama). Both showed status as in stock, ready to ship, ships in three days or some such on their websites. And both sent me emails the very next day saying the BCO 10 is not actually in stock and they are not sure when the eyepiece would be available.

The game is afoot!




Oh yes it is Mike! Knew it, such a patient astronomer who's bagged hundreds of faint DSO's really wouldn't mind the wait, congrats again and do let us know how you like the BCO10, you shoot from the hip and say it as it is, like that!

Best,


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5626144 - 01/16/13 12:52 PM

I would be interested to hear from any new BCO owners who also own Brandon EP's regarding the difference in backfocus between the two lines.

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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobia, Maryland, USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5627124 - 01/16/13 10:11 PM

Hernando,

This morning I put in an order at Agena Astro for a BCO 10mm. I've already received an email saying that it has shipped. Good job! Soon I can binoview with a pair of BCO 10's!

Mike


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5627190 - 01/16/13 10:46 PM

Wow, that was fast, kudos to Agena! The nearest pair I have to 10mm are 12.5mm UO volcano tops; looking forward to your report on how the BCO 10mm pair fares on your binoviewer.

Best,


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nightfisher
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ibase]
      #5628285 - 01/17/13 03:17 PM

I have just ordered the BCO x2.25 barlow, if its good then i will sell my TAL x2 barlow

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Ain Soph Aur
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: nightfisher]
      #5628407 - 01/17/13 04:21 PM

I have the Baader Q-Turret on the way with an expected delivery of tomorrow.

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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5628442 - 01/17/13 04:40 PM

I also ordered the Q-Turret from Agena. ETA is the day after tomorrow.

Mike


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stevetaylor199
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5628695 - 01/17/13 07:17 PM

I'm really curious about the Q-turret. For the price it seems pretty interesting -- a nice little gadget to compare eyepieces (or even filters, if you have more than one of each eyepiece), and, as the sales photos suggest, centering targets for a CCD or perhaps a powermate+camera.

But what totally turns me off to it is that it uses a single setscrew in each barrel, with no compression band! That seems especially ironic given that I do not see a setscrew recess in these new eyepieces. (And that's a good thing.)

Anyway, I'm getting a 6mm and 10mm from Agena tomorrow myself, and I'll get to see what the deal is with setscrew recesses.


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XwarpfactorX
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5629029 - 01/17/13 10:37 PM

I'm very interested in that Q-turret set, seems like a smart set-up if it works as advertised. I'm looking forward to reading some reviews of it.

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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5629081 - 01/17/13 11:04 PM

stevetaylor199,

Quote:

But what totally turns me off to it is that it uses a single setscrew in each barrel, with no compression band! That seems especially ironic given that I do not see a setscrew recess in these new eyepieces. (And that's a good thing.)




Yes, compression bands are better. But you'd probably be putting relatively small, light weight eyepieces in the turret. No need for more than one setscrew. In fact, more than one setscrew would probably just get in the way and overly complicate things. Eight setscrews in total? I don't think so. Ideally, the turret would use four twist-locks, but the price would probably increase substantially. It'd be worth it, though.

I don't like setscrew recesses in eyepieces. They get the eyepieces hung up. Yes, it's a good thing that the BCO's don't have them.

Mike


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stevetaylor199
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5629199 - 01/18/13 12:29 AM

Good points Mike. If the turret is up to the task, I'll probably get one... and I would just replace the screws with non-marring nylon screws.

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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5629405 - 01/18/13 06:48 AM

Yep, I've meant to replace all my focuser and diagonal setscrews with nylon ones. One of these days.

Mike


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BillP
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5629567 - 01/18/13 09:46 AM

Quote:

Yep, I've meant replace all my focuser and diagonal setscrews with nylon ones. One of these days.

Mike




I think that is a good idea! Save the eyepieces from set screw dimples.

Anyway, I just got my set yesterday Really cool packaging...and not one box but two!! The whole setup is nicely arranged in a tin box, and the tin box comes in a paper box with all sorts of pics and instructions and stuff written on it. 30 years from now I can see the used market ads now as to the "rare" set that comes with both boxes

I had not seen the Q-Turret before in the flesh. The tubes that hold the eyepieces and the tube that inserts in the focuser are metal [Correction - the eyepiece tubes are not metal], the rest of the unit is some sort of polymer. I appears sturdy and the position lock mechanisms seem robust enough to handle frequent use. I was happy to see this as was unsure how robust the unit would be. I knew it was not all metal construction...how could it be at such a low price for a complete system with eyepieces! Anyway, should be clear tonight so am looking forward to giving it a spin (pardon the pun) tonight and to see how these 4 eyepieces and Barlow perform as a complete 1.25" solution.

Edited by BillP (01/20/13 10:30 AM)


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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5629582 - 01/18/13 09:58 AM

I understand the BCO are all parfocal? That would make sense for the Q-turret. I probably will use the turret with a mix of diverse eyepieces - that's how I roll. It might be worthwhile to rig up parfocalizing rings and such to make a mixed-set parfocal.

Then there is the question of which eyepieces will actually come to focus in the turret when used without a Barlow or OCA in any of my Dobs. But I suppose a set of four longer focal-length simple-glass eyepieces in the turret with a Barlow or OCA would not be a bad thing.

Mike


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Ain Soph Aur
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5629677 - 01/18/13 10:53 AM

My Baader Q-Turret is out for delivery so I should be able to try it out tonight. Replacing the set screws with nylon screws sounds like an excellent plan. Does anyone know what size the screws are?

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Manish
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5630030 - 01/18/13 02:31 PM

>>Does anyone know what size the screws are?

M4-0.7 x 10mm thread length

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Manish
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t.r.
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5630042 - 01/18/13 02:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yep, I've meant replace all my focuser and diagonal setscrews with nylon ones. One of these days.

Mike




I think that is a good idea! Save the eyepieces from set screw dimples.

Anyway, I just got my set yesterday Really cool packaging...and not one box but two!! The whole setup is nicely arranged in a tin box, and the tin box comes in a paper box with all sorts of pics and instructions and stuff written on it. 30 years from now I can see the used market ads now as to the "rare" set that comes with both boxes

I had not seen the Q-Turret before in the flesh. The tubes that hold the eyepieces and the tube that inserts in the focuser are metal, the rest of the unit is some sort of polymer. I appears sturdy and the position lock mechanisms seem robust enough to handle frequent use. I was happy to see this as was unsure how robust the unit would be. I knew it was not all metal construction...how could it be at such a low price for a complete system with eyepieces! Anyway, should be clear tonight so am looking forward to giving it a spin (pardon the pun) tonight and to see how these 4 eyepieces and Barlow perform as a complete 1.25" solution.




Looking forward to your impressions of this production set.


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denis0007dl
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: t.r.]
      #5630135 - 01/18/13 03:41 PM

...cant"t wait to see test them someone....I have order 6mm for my bino.

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rguasto
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5630163 - 01/18/13 04:01 PM

Just used a 10mm in my PST. First thing I noticed is that the field stop is rough, like "someone forgot to sand the edge smooth after cutting it". The scooped out volcano top is pretty nice for eyelashes as the eye relief is tight. The field of view is not as restrictive as any other ortho I've viewed with. I compared the BCO 10mm (40x) with my 11mm TV Plossl (36x) and I could find very little difference between them visually in the PST. Will be clear tonight so I'll get to use it in my 8" Dynascope on Jupiter.
-Rob


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stevetaylor199
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: t.r.]
      #5630207 - 01/18/13 04:20 PM

I just opened up my shipment of a 6mm and 10mm. I think it's nice that you can essentially choose if you want minimal packaging -- a white box, bubble wrap and ziplock bag -- for $74 each... or if you want the full unboxing experience, you can buy the whole set. (Other posters have mentioned a dealer that sells the glam box separately. Perhaps Manish will consider that.)

As always, Agena shipped each single ortho with a bolt case, which in this case is a 42x80, wide enough to accommodate the winged eyeguards.

I'm especially happy that there are, indeed, no setscrew recesses or tapers.

For Mike, you can find M4 nylon screws right at Agena. They can easily be cut down with a scissors to shorter lengths.


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ThomasM
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5630233 - 01/18/13 04:35 PM

Quote:

...cant"t wait to see test them someone....I have order 6mm for my bino.




I did already some tests, just scroll up..

Thomas


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Starman1
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630351 - 01/18/13 06:18 PM

Quote:

stevetaylor199,

Quote:

But what totally turns me off to it is that it uses a single setscrew in each barrel, with no compression band! That seems especially ironic given that I do not see a setscrew recess in these new eyepieces. (And that's a good thing.)




Yes, compression bands are better. But you'd probably be putting relatively small, light weight eyepieces in the turret. No need for more than one setscrew. In fact, more than one setscrew would probably just get in the way and overly complicate things. Eight setscrews in total? I don't think so. Ideally, the turret would use four twist-locks, but the price would probably increase substantially. It'd be worth it, though.

I don't like setscrew recesses in eyepieces. They get the eyepieces hung up. Yes, it's a good thing that the BCO's don't have them.

Mike




What we call compression rings are really just glorified brass tips on the thumbscrews to protect the finish of the eyepiece. They don't actually compress all the way around the eyepiece like a collet would.
Now a collet-style compression--that would be a good thing with smooth-sided eyepieces. The Baader Click-Lock is a fairly elaborate form of one, but that's the idea.

But lets say the metal setscrew grinds into the barrel of the eyepiece. So?
And it leaves a mark.
So?
Why do people get so upset about that? It has absolutely no effect on performance. It may affect resale value because people want to essentially buy a new eyepiece for a used price. But how much could it lop off the resale of a $75 eyepiece? $10?
I've bought used eyepieces that were scraped and beaten up with irregular anodizing and even a dent or two. And they performed great.
But the lenses were clean and unscratched. That's what counts.

Plus, those brass rings make it more difficult to remove the eyepiece.

If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.


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Manish
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5630423 - 01/18/13 07:10 PM

>>a white box, bubble wrap and ziplock bag --
>>Other posters have mentioned a dealer that sells the glam box separately.
>>Perhaps Manish will consider that.)

From what I know, Baader procured only complete eyepiece sets in order to keep prices down. Splitting of sets into individual items - which most people are buying - has to be done either by Baader or by the end dealer. At this time, I believe Baader has only shipped out complete sets which we have to split. What this means is that there will be no consistency in the end packaging between vendors, at least initially. We've added the box/bag/label ourselves. I know some dealers in Europe who've just been shipping all items in plastic bags.

The metal box is indeed available separately and we will add that to our website very soon. However, its utility is limited. The foam insert is pre-cut to accept the turret, barlow, and just the lower eyepiece end caps. The eyepieces themselves come inserted into the turret. So if you buy just the box, most of it is empty space inside and you'd have to figure out your own way of storing eyepieces within it.

Having said that, it is a beautiful box indeed. The outer cardboard box, which we have to discard while splitting the sets, is even prettier!

Regards,
Manish
www.AgenaAstro.com


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John Huntley
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: rguasto]
      #5630429 - 01/18/13 07:13 PM

Quote:

Just used a 10mm in my PST. First thing I noticed is that the field stop is rough, like "someone forgot to sand the edge smooth after cutting it". The scooped out volcano top is pretty nice for eyelashes as the eye relief is tight. The field of view is not as restrictive as any other ortho I've viewed with. I compared the BCO 10mm (40x) with my 11mm TV Plossl (36x) and I could find very little difference between them visually in the PST. Will be clear tonight so I'll get to use it in my 8" Dynascope on Jupiter.
-Rob




Thats interesting. The field stop on my 10mm BCO is smooth and sharply defined but the 6mm is rather fuzzy.

Some quality control variation here.


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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5630550 - 01/18/13 08:31 PM

Don,

Quote:

Now a collet-style compression--that would be a good thing with smooth-sided eyepieces. The Baader Click-Lock is a fairly elaborate form of one, but that's the idea.

But lets say the metal setscrew grinds into the barrel of the eyepiece. So?
And it leaves a mark.
So?
Why do people get so upset about that? It has absolutely no effect on performance. It may affect resale value because people want to essentially buy a new eyepiece for a used price. But how much could it lop off the resale of a $75 eyepiece? $10?
I've bought used eyepieces that were scraped and beaten up with irregular anodizing and even a dent or two. And they performed great.
But the lenses were clean and unscratched. That's what counts.

Plus, those brass rings make it more difficult to remove the eyepiece.

If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.




The brass rings seem to work OK as long as the eyepieces don't have the dreaded undercuts.

But I'm not so concerned about setscrews marking the eyepiece barrels. That is nothing to me personally, but only a concern that the marks might lower the resale value of the eyepiece - if I ever sell it. Those marks do matter to some observers / collectors.

What I don't like about the setscrews is that they don't seem to provide as secure a hold on an eyepiece as does a good collet (what I was calling a twist-lock). I'd prefer all my focusers and adapters to have collets rather than setscrews or brass rings.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630559 - 01/18/13 08:43 PM

I received my second BCO 10mm and my Q-Turret in the mail today from Agena Astro, a day ahead of schedule. (Thanks Manish!) Everything arrived in great shape. I plan on loading the Q-Turret with a BGO 9, BCO 10, Faworski Ortho 10.5, and TV Plossl 11mm. I'll compare the BCO 10 to these other three eyepieces. They are my 1.25" eyepieces which are closest in focal length to the BCO 10. They'll go in my Z8, an 8" f/6 Dob.

I plan on viewing the Moon and Jupiter, maybe a few other objects, either tonight or tomorrow. I'm just getting over a cold, and it's in the '20's tonight. So if I don't make it out this weekend, be patient. I don't want to end up being a patient!


Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630566 - 01/18/13 08:49 PM

Both my BCO 10's - the one from EyePiecesEtc and the other from Agena Astro - have clean, sharp field stops. I see no defects in barrel or optics. Looking good!

Mike


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Starman1
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630568 - 01/18/13 08:51 PM

Quote:

Don,
What I don't like about the setscrews is that they don't seem to provide as secure a hold on an eyepiece as does a good collet (what I was calling a twist-lock). I'd prefer all my focusers and adapters to have collets rather than setscrews or brass rings.

Mike



Agreed. We're on the same wavelength.


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BillP
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630599 - 01/18/13 09:11 PM

Quote:

Both my BCO 10's - the one from EyePiecesEtc and the other from Agena Astro - have clean, sharp field stops. I see no defects in barrel or optics. Looking good!

Mike




Same here for me. I gave it a spin tonight in both my XT10 (no Paracorr) and my TSA-102.

In the XT10 I was able to get all eyepieces to come to focus. However, I have the Orion Dual Speed low profile focuser on my XT10. So had to set it all the way down then all eyepieces would come to focus. On the TSA of course no issues with that.

The eyepieces are not parfocal. However, could easily adjust their heights in the Turret so they were all at the same focus.

All my eyepieces, the whole set, all had sharp field stops. The AFOV of the 32 Plossl was smaller than the Orthos, but still provided a nicely larger TFOV compared to the 18 Ortho. All eyepieces were nicely sharp, exception the very edge of the extended fields of the Orthos as expected.

I quite enjoyed turreting between the different eyepieces. Was nice not having to flip EPs in and out. I also felt quite satisfied with the focal length selections also. I was surprised as I didn't think only 4 focal lengths would be enough. Very enjoyable viewing this way.

Of the 4, the 10mm and 18mm were my favorties. ER in the 6mm was short, still no problem, but just no where near as comfortable as the others. So I enjoyed them most. With the 10mm in my TSA I was actually able to see both Trap E and F! I was surprised it being only 82x!! So really nice transmission on these.

Even though not overly cold here, around 35 degrees outside, the turret performed just fine with no binding or roughness while spinning it. So functionally it worked fine in the cold weather (cold for me). Also, initially I thought the tubes on top of the turret were metal, they are not and are some sort of polymer material also as they did not get cold to the touch.

Overall a great first run...and I enjoyed the turret concept for eyepieces. A great little set and look forward to more observing with it. And of course, I always love Abbes


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stevetaylor199
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5630645 - 01/18/13 09:56 PM

Thanks for the background on how Baader is providing these sets, Manish. It sounds like the turret is a winner for the price... I'll have to get one in spite of my earlier hesitation.

And Don and Mike, agreed on the collets. (I'm one of those people who's annoyed by marks on an eyepiece barrel. ) Now, a brass setscrew that doesn't leave marks, that sounds fine.


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rathbaster
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5630761 - 01/18/13 10:54 PM

Quote:


If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.






I agree.

-Joe


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Jim Rosenstock
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: rathbaster]
      #5630798 - 01/18/13 11:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:


If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.






I agree.

-Joe




+2

Jim


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astro_baby
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5631161 - 01/19/13 08:37 AM

Any opinions on how they compare with the BGOs ?

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Lance1234
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5631354 - 01/19/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

...If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.




Don, you're showing your youth...in the old days...we didn't even HAVE set screws.


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Starman1
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Lance1234]
      #5631398 - 01/19/13 11:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

...If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.




Don, you're showing your youth...in the old days...we didn't even HAVE set screws.



I was referring to the high end stuff at the time. My first scope (an Edmund 4.25" EQ reflector) had a spring steel drawtube in the focuser in which a couple cuts in the steel created pressure tabs that pressed against the eyepiece. You had to press the eyepiece in because the tabs pressed against the eyepiece quite tightly.
I've also seen this technique used on a lot of 19th century brass scopes.
If you were lucky, those tabs had small dimples in them so the scratches in the eyepiece barrels were small lines instead of gouges.
My 1970 Unitron had setscrews, houwever.


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rguasto
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5631449 - 01/19/13 12:06 PM

My main scope still has a 'slip fit' brass insert in the (52 year-old) focuser with slits that apply pressure on the EP barrel.

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Lance1234
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5631673 - 01/19/13 02:29 PM

Quote:

I was referring to the high end stuff at the time. My first scope (an Edmund 4.25" EQ reflector) had a spring steel drawtube in the focuser in which a couple cuts in the steel created pressure tabs that pressed against the eyepiece. You had to press the eyepiece in because the tabs pressed against the eyepiece quite tightly.
I've also seen this technique used on a lot of 19th century brass scopes.
If you were lucky, those tabs had small dimples in them so the scratches in the eyepiece barrels were small lines instead of gouges.
My 1970 Unitron had setscrews, houwever.




Interesting, I never ran across the spring steel focusers. My first scope was also an Edmund 4.25", circa mid 1960's; and it just had a smooth draw tube, no spring steel. Must have been an earlier or later version than the one you had (loved that scope!). Also the top of the line Telescopics focuser that I bought when I assembled my 6" in late '60s also just had a smooth draw tube (I actually found a link to their catalog - http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/classics/telescopics/telescopics.pdf).

Changing subjects, it would be interesting to know how many people Edmunds introduced to the hobby.


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5631707 - 01/19/13 03:00 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

Today I tried the Q-Turret on my PST. Needed to add the Q-Barlow element to the Trurret's bottom tube for any eyepiece to come to focus in the PST however. Had a lot of fun with the turret on the PST as well...plus plain looks cool. I placed my 35 Ultrascopic, 25-20-17 Sterlings in the Q-Turret with its Barlow and went to town solar observing. Really liking the convenience of the Turret.

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Eigen
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5631860 - 01/19/13 04:54 PM

That turret does look good BillP. To be honest I was focused on the EP's, I wasn't even considering the turret. I am now reconsidering.

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Lance1234]
      #5631924 - 01/19/13 05:37 PM Attachment (28 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

I was referring to the high end stuff at the time. My first scope (an Edmund 4.25" EQ reflector) had a spring steel drawtube in the focuser in which a couple cuts in the steel created pressure tabs that pressed against the eyepiece. You had to press the eyepiece in because the tabs pressed against the eyepiece quite tightly.
I've also seen this technique used on a lot of 19th century brass scopes.
If you were lucky, those tabs had small dimples in them so the scratches in the eyepiece barrels were small lines instead of gouges.
My 1970 Unitron had setscrews, houwever.




Interesting, I never ran across the spring steel focusers. My first scope was also an Edmund 4.25", circa mid 1960's; and it just had a smooth draw tube, no spring steel. Must have been an earlier or later version than the one you had (loved that scope!). Also the top of the line Telescopics focuser that I bought when I assembled my 6" in late '60s also just had a smooth draw tube (I actually found a link to their catalog - http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/classics/telescopics/telescopics.pdf).

Changing subjects, it would be interesting to know how many people Edmunds introduced to the hobby.



Mine was from 1963. I attach a drawing of the focuser drawtube where the eyepiece goes in.

Edited by Starman1 (01/19/13 05:42 PM)


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rguasto
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5631972 - 01/19/13 06:05 PM Attachment (40 downloads)

like this? Sorry, but this is the only picture I can find right now.

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: rguasto]
      #5631988 - 01/19/13 06:20 PM

Just like that. Setscrews actually scratched LESS.

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5631995 - 01/19/13 06:30 PM

Quote:

Mine was from 1963. I attach a drawing of the focuser drawtube where the eyepiece goes in.




Hmmm, I don't remember it looking like that, but then, there's a whole lota things I don't remember

Back on topic, I have a 10mm & 18mm BCO on the way. It will be fun comparing them to other eyepieces.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5632421 - 01/19/13 11:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yep, I've meant replace all my focuser and diagonal setscrews with nylon ones. One of these days.

Mike




I think that is a good idea! Save the eyepieces from set screw dimples.

Anyway, I just got my set yesterday Really cool packaging...and not one box but two!! The whole setup is nicely arranged in a tin box, and the tin box comes in a paper box with all sorts of pics and instructions and stuff written on it. 30 years from now I can see the used market ads now as to the "rare" set that comes with both boxes

I had not seen the Q-Turret before in the flesh. The tubes that hold the eyepieces and the tube that inserts in the focuser are metal, the rest of the unit is some sort of polymer. I appears sturdy and the position lock mechanisms seem robust enough to handle frequent use. I was happy to see this as was unsure how robust the unit would be. I knew it was not all metal construction...how could it be at such a low price for a complete system with eyepieces! Anyway, should be clear tonight so am looking forward to giving it a spin (pardon the pun) tonight and to see how these 4 eyepieces and Barlow perform as a complete 1.25" solution.




Curious there's such a variation on the Q-Turret in the first batch. I just received my set today and the top barrels that hold the eyepieces are plastic like the turret housing. The only metal on the turret is the bottom barrel that goes into the diagonal/focuser.

Now, how do I like them? I like them. I had an hour or so tonight with them, seeing was terrible, but a few moments here and there it settled. I can say they're at least as sharp as any other, with the 6mm BCO equaling an 8mm TV Plossl on sharpness. Light throughput is excellent, brighter than many eyepieces; color is excellent, being neutral, but showing actual colors very vividly with good saturation. Just about what one would want in a planetary eyepiece set.

The barlow is excellent, in both configurations, and is going to be a nice addition. Easily as good as any modern barlow. Only downside I noticed is the barlow, when used in 2.5x mode, vignettes in the 18mm BCO (and I would assume the 32mm also). But those two I won't be barlowing much anyway.

The Q-Turret, for all purposes, is well made and will work nicely for most. And the eyepieces require enough backfocus that focus is easily achieved with the turret in place (C6R, GSO 2-speed crayford, 2" diagonal). But, on my C6R, there are a couple issues though. Due to the diagonal setscrew, I can't mount it with the unused eyepieces toward the tube keeping the eyepieces out of the way. And being left eye dominant, my finder is on the left side. I'm going to try remounting the finder on the right side of the focuser so we'll see. Otherwise, these are nothing more than user-specific issues. Nothing against the turret itself.

So what do I not like about them? Only minor criticisms, except one. Because of how the eyepieces are shipped, installed in the turret within the tin box, their barrels were scratched by the turret setscrews. Note I'm not directing this criticism at Manish, but rather Baader for how they ship them. And yes, I'll also be going to Lowes to pick up some nylon setscrews.

The other criticisms are minor. I don't like the wings on the eyeguards and might cut them off. That or remove the eyeguards altogether and get smaller endcaps that fit the naked barrels. As for the 32mm, it's nice...but... it just doesn't move me as much as my 36mm Hyperion on low power viewing. Personally, I'd like to see Baader replace the 32mm with a shorter focal length ortho, something like an 8mm which will give 3.5mm barlowed, allowing better spread and closer incremental steps at high power.

Other than those few minor complaints, I have nothing bad to say about the eyepieces. Viewing the Moon, Jupiter, and a few select double stars and clusters tonight was very pleasing. As for the turret, we'll see if I can make it work well for me. Fortunately though, I have a good planetary set now to complement my Hyperions (DSO set). They'll easily replace my decent, but problematic TMB II's (which have begun growing mold between the elements after I cemented all the rattle prone locking collars).


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5632692 - 01/20/13 07:17 AM

Starman.....the older TAL newts had that kind of drawtube as well. Back in the day of course no one cared about scratches and people used go keep EPs in their coat pockets while observing very often.

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: astro_baby]
      #5632875 - 01/20/13 10:06 AM

I have been using the Q-Turret for the past two evenings and am very pleased with the perfomance. I have been using parfocal Brandon EPs with the turret and am only having an issue with head space with the 8mm. I suspect this will be resolved when I add the Q-Barlow next month and keep the 32-24-16-12 in the turret.

A secondary issue I have had is inward focus using a rather large 2" Baader 2" Click-lock diagonal on the custom 4" Carton/Crawmach OTA. Most of my EP's will focus but a few will not, the Meade RG for example. I am planning on moving to a Baader T-2 prism over the next few months which should resolve this. Last year I sent the tube back to Crawmach to have 2" removed, and am glad I did this. I don't believe my EP's would have come to focus in either the Baader 2" Click-lock or the Herschel otherwise.

When the turret first arrived, I was concerned that the EP holders were not metal, but see that Bill subsequently posted that he was mistaken when he posted that his example had these. Although the turrent is mainly non-metal, I am very pleased with the mechanical performance. It is easy to rotate and the click locks are about perfect. Not too tight or too loose.

The Q-Turret has allowed me to quickly determine that an old UO circle T 25mm Ortho surpasses the Brandon's on showing Solar ganulation with the Baader Herschel. Quickly swapping between the Brandon 24mm and UO 25mm, it isn't a contest. On the moon and double stars, the Brandon is superior.

I want to thank EyepiecesEtc for the quick shipping of the turret, and supplying both the tin and cardboard cases!


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5632876 - 01/20/13 10:07 AM

Bill,

Quote:

I had not seen the Q-Turret before in the flesh. The tubes that hold the eyepieces and the tube that inserts in the focuser are metal, the rest of the unit is some sort of polymer. I appears sturdy and the position lock mechanisms seem robust enough to handle frequent use. I was happy to see this as was unsure how robust the unit would be. I knew it was not all metal construction...how could it be at such a low price for a complete system with eyepieces!




Are you sure about the material of the Q-Turret? On mine, the only parts that I am certain are metal are the setscrews and their settings on the eyepiece tubes, and the central bolt and screw that holds the Q-Turret together. I can see the lines from the molds on the eyepiece barrels. The top and bottom plates of the Q-Turret and the eyepiece barrels are definitely some sort of polymer.

The tube that goes in the focuser is not steel, because it won't attract a magnet. I don't think it's aluminum. Maybe Delrin? It doesn't feel like metal to me. On the other hand, it does not have a mold line like the eyepiece barrels.

But in any event, my Q-Turret seems to be durable and easy to use. I had it on my 90mm Mak last night. The turret switches easily from eyepiece to eyepiece. Each eyepiece barrel is accurately centered when set over the central hole. The position locking mechanisms are more secure and give better tactile feedback than in a three-position turret I already have.

Of course the Q-Turret does require more room on the telescope than the three-turret. I could barely find a position on my 90mm Mak in which the Q-Turret did not get in the way of my finder mount. I wanted to avoid having the eyepieces on the Q-Turret be in the way of my breath. That could contaminate the lenses or at the least, fog them up on cold nights. I finally had to remove the finder completely to allow enough space for the Q-Turret. So if I use a turret again on the 90mm, I'll be using the smaller three-turret rather than the Q-Turret.

This should not be a concern for larger telescopes, though, and not even for all small ones. But it is important to position the Q-Turret so the three eyepieces that are not being used at the time are above the central hole. Otherwise the observer's breath could fog the eyepieces.

Mike


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BillP
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5632909 - 01/20/13 10:28 AM

[quoteCurious there's such a variation on the Q-Turret in the first batch. I just received my set today and the top barrels that hold the eyepieces are plastic like the turret housing. The only metal on the turret is the bottom barrel that goes into the diagonal/focuser.




That was my mistake...corrected it in a post afterwards. Mine are not metal either.

FYI, used the turret on the SCT last evening. This time though using other eyepieces (35 Ultrascopic, 25 Sterling, 17 Sterling, and 12.5 Sterling). Performed like a charm. And again, made for a very enjoyable observing experience not having to go to an eyepiece case all the time.


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Starman1
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5633000 - 01/20/13 11:14 AM

Gentlepeople,
I had a turret on my Unitron back in the early '70s when I lived in Indiana, the place with liquid air, the closest resemblance to a Louisiana swamp north of Louisiana.
I prevented fogging on the unused eyepieces while they were in the turret by keeping them lightly capped until use. Then I'd simply move the cap from the one I wanted to use to the one I just finished using.
That way my breath never fogged them up and they didn't dew up while I wasn't using them.
Because any uncovered eyepiece will dew up if you're not covering the lens.
Of course, keeping them from fogging up from your eye only a few millimeters away is a different story.


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5633056 - 01/20/13 12:02 PM

Don,

If possible, I think it's best to position the three eyepiece barrels that are not being used above the focuser. That way, the observer's nose and mouth will be below all the eyepieces, and breath will not go directly onto any lenses. But then, if the night is dewy, it still might be a good idea to cap the eyepieces that you are not using at the moment.

FWIW, although I observe in a very dewy area, I don't recall an eyepiece ever fogging up from just being near my eye. And I observe with some very short focal length eyepieces. Even recently when I was using my XO's to split the Pup at my dark site, those eyepieces didn't fog from my eye. Of course, I do wrap a dew strip around the focuser near the eyepiece, so that's probably enough to prevent dewing or fogging, even from the observer's eye.

Mike


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Ain Soph Aur
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5633064 - 01/20/13 12:03 PM

Quote:

when I lived in Indiana, the place with liquid air, the closest resemblance to a Louisiana swamp north of Louisiana.




Living around Memphis, we'll lay claim to the 2'nd place liquid air competition.

Quote:

I prevented fogging on the unused eyepieces while they were in the turret by keeping them lightly capped until use. Then I'd simply move the cap from the one I wanted to use to the one I just finished using.
That way my breath never fogged them up and they didn't dew up while I wasn't using them.




On my refractor, the turret is mounted in a position where I don't have to worry about breath fogging up the eyepeieces but I have been keeping the very convenient caps that are supplied with the Brandons on all unused EPs. These caps fit perfectly inside the eye guards and makes for quick and easy swapping between the currently used EP and the 3 unused.

I am very pleased with the turret so far. Hopefully the interrnal rotating and locking mechanism is robust and doesn't loosen up with use. This is an awesome accessory especially when used with parfocal EPs and is very convenient for planetary/solar/lunar/double star observing when one may be constantly switching between EPs and comparing for the best view.


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Starman1
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5633073 - 01/20/13 12:09 PM

Quote:

Don,

If possible, I think it's best to position the three eyepiece barrels that are not being used above the focuser. That way, the observer's nose and mouth will be below all the eyepieces, and breath will not go directly onto any lenses. But then, if the night is dewy, it still might be a good idea to cap the eyepieces that you are not using at the moment.

FWIW, although I observe in a very dewy area, I don't recall an eyepiece ever fogging up from just being near my eye. And I observe with some very short focal length eyepieces. Even recently when I was using my XO's to split the Pup at my dark site, those eyepieces didn't fog from my eye. Of course, I do wrap a dew strip around the focuser near the eyepiece, so that's probably enough to prevent dewing or fogging, even from the observer's eye.

Mike



The coldest I've observed out here in CA is about 5 degrees. And the dry air doesn't lend itself to fogging eyepieces. But when I lived in Indiana, I often observed in the winter when it was below zero, and the mere proximity of my warm, moist, eye was enough to not only cause instant fog on the eyepiece, but often frost! The only cure was warming the eyepiece in a pocket. We didn't have eyepiece heater cords then.


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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5633090 - 01/20/13 12:15 PM

Maybe that is the difference. I never observe when it is that cold. That's just not going to happen. The '20's is cold enough for me. And I'd rather not go out if it's at all below freezing. There is nothing I want to see that is worth getting that cold for. My hands cannot handle it. (Please no suggestions from anyone about solutions. Been there, done that, doesn't work ... for me.)

Mike


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5633497 - 01/20/13 04:19 PM Attachment (22 downloads)

Quote:

My first scope (an Edmund 4.25" EQ reflector) had a spring steel drawtube in the focuser in which a couple cuts in the steel created pressure tabs that pressed against the eyepiece. You had to press the eyepiece in because the tabs pressed against the eyepiece quite tightly.
I've also seen this technique used on a lot of 19th century brass scopes.
If you were lucky, those tabs had small dimples in them so the scratches in the eyepiece barrels were small lines instead of gouges.





My Vernonscope 2X barlow is like that and it works quite well. - Pic:

**** Back on topic I have the 18mm, 10mm & 6mm BCO's coming this week.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5633587 - 01/20/13 05:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Curious there's such a variation on the Q-Turret in the first batch. I just received my set today and the top barrels that hold the eyepieces are plastic like the turret housing. The only metal on the turret is the bottom barrel that goes into the diagonal/focuser.




That was my mistake...corrected it in a post afterwards. Mine are not metal either.

FYI, used the turret on the SCT last evening. This time though using other eyepieces (35 Ultrascopic, 25 Sterling, 17 Sterling, and 12.5 Sterling). Performed like a charm. And again, made for a very enjoyable observing experience not having to go to an eyepiece case all the time.




Sorry Bill, missed that post first time around. I agree, the turret works pretty well, just have to adjust my scope to work with it.


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5635428 - 01/21/13 05:43 PM

Well I just ordered a 10mm from Agena Astro. I am going to compare the BCO to an old 10.2mm UO ortho. I own. But even if the BCO proves to be better (or inferior)I am going to keep both.

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Radim]
      #5636351 - 01/22/13 07:49 AM

I spent the afternoon collimating the ES Comet Hunter and was able to try out the Q-Turret with this scope this evening. Very nice.

Now to see if I have enough room on the C8 to conveniently mount the turret. With the Baader click-lock visual back and Baader 2" Click-lock Diagonal, I suspect this will not be a problem.


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5636730 - 01/22/13 11:50 AM

OPT has the orthos in stock but not the Plossl. I have a 18 BCO on backorder with them and should be getting it Wed! David

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stevetaylor199
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5636869 - 01/22/13 01:01 PM

I'm curious to hear how the 32mm plossl compares to, say, a Celestron 32mm Omni plossl at half the price. Or, for that matter, a TeleVue 32mm at double the price.

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Starman1
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5637148 - 01/22/13 03:20 PM

Quote:

I'm curious to hear how the 32mm plossl compares to, say, a Celestron 32mm Omni plossl at half the price. Or, for that matter, a TeleVue 32mm at double the price.



The image quality is excellent. The build quality is medium. The field stop is a little smaller than some other 32mm Plossls. The edge is very sharp, but the AFOV is more like 45 degrees than 50 degrees.
It does have a larger true field than most 25-26mm Plossls, however.


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John Huntley
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5637627 - 01/22/13 07:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm curious to hear how the 32mm plossl compares to, say, a Celestron 32mm Omni plossl at half the price. Or, for that matter, a TeleVue 32mm at double the price.



The image quality is excellent. The build quality is medium. The field stop is a little smaller than some other 32mm Plossls. The edge is very sharp, but the AFOV is more like 45 degrees than 50 degrees.
It does have a larger true field than most 25-26mm Plossls, however.




I don't find the edge that sharp when using this eyepiece with my F/6.5 and F/7.5 ED refractors to be honest. It's sharp for 90% or so but not 100%.

I'd estimate the apparent field of view at 45 degrees as well.

So far, for me, the 18mm ortho is the best eyepiece of this set.

Edited by John Huntley (01/22/13 07:53 PM)


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Peter Natscher
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5637742 - 01/22/13 08:57 PM

Gee, has this topic gone off into an examination of any eyepiece that comes to mind? The OP, and I, would like to know about anyone's actual use of a BCO since being delivered this past week or two, not yadda-yadda-yadda. Seeesh!

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'm curious to hear how the 32mm plossl compares to, say, a Celestron 32mm Omni plossl at half the price. Or, for that matter, a TeleVue 32mm at double the price.



The image quality is excellent. The build quality is medium. The field stop is a little smaller than some other 32mm Plossls. The edge is very sharp, but the AFOV is more like 45 degrees than 50 degrees.
It does have a larger true field than most 25-26mm Plossls, however.




I don't find the edge that sharp when using this eyepiece with my F/6.5 and F/7.5 ED refractors to be honest. It's sharp for 90% or so but not 100%.

I'd estimate the apparent field of view at 45 degrees as well.

So far, for me, the 18mm ortho is the best eyepiece of this set.




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John Huntley
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5637840 - 01/22/13 09:47 PM

Quote:

Gee, has this topic gone off into an examination of any eyepiece that comes to mind? The OP, and I, would like to know about anyone's actual use of a BCO since being delivered this past week or two, not yadda-yadda-yadda. Seeesh! ...




I've used the Baader Classic 32mm plossl, the 3 orthos and the 2.25x Q-Turret barlow over the past 7 days.

My comments are based on what I've actually experienced with them, not just "yadda-yadda-yadda"


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stevetaylor199
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5637903 - 01/22/13 10:36 PM

Thanks, Don and John. Peter, the 32mm Plossl I asked about is part of the BCO set.

Edit to add: Now, why the 32mm is the oddball with a Plossl design is a question I can't recall ever seeing answered. I wonder why Baader didn't make this an ortho as well.

Edited by stevetaylor199 (01/22/13 11:56 PM)


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5637999 - 01/22/13 11:22 PM

No offense but most of the replies to the OP's question about BCO's have been way off topic (i.e., Plossl's, Q-Turret, compression rings, etc.).

Edited by Peter Natscher (01/22/13 11:30 PM)


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johnnyha
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5638016 - 01/22/13 11:30 PM



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Peter Natscher
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5638484 - 01/23/13 09:18 AM



Quote:






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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5638754 - 01/23/13 11:41 AM

OK, I can't take the pressure any more. I'll come clean with my comparo.

The same night I took out my 90mm Mak and the Q-Turret, of course I had four eyepieces along with me, too. They were the BGO 9, SF (Sheldon Faworski) Ortho 10.5, TV Plossl 11 ... and the BCO 10. According to Clear Sky Chart, the seeing was supposed to be "poor," but I think it was better than that. I'd give it about a 3.5 to 4 out of five. The Moon was one day past first quarter.

Except for the BGO 9, the eyepieces were nearly parfocal. I just needed to move two of them up a little in the focuser holders. Then I could switch the Q-Turret quickly and easily among the BCO 10, SF 10.5 and TV Plossl 11. For the BGO 9, I had to use the focus knob on the 90mm Mak.

The magnifications and exit pupils were:

BGO 9 _____ 167x _____ 0.9mm
BCO 10 ____ 150x _____ 1.0mm
SF 10.5 ____ 143x _____ 1.1mm
TV 11 ______ 136x _____ 1.1mm

First I observed the Moon. All four eyepieces gave a comparable view of the lunar surface. I couldn't find any detail that was visible in any of the four eyepieces that wasn't visible in all four. But the TV Plossl 11 gave me the most pleasing presentation. There was something about it that was just more "contrasty."

I looked for some detail that was seen in the TeleVue that I couldn't see in any of the others, but there wasn't any. Somehow, though, the TV Plossl presented an image that was "contrastier" which gave the illusion perhaps of a sharper image. This was especially noticeable on the maria, away from the terminator. Maybe this was due to the "coffee" tone? The 11mm is one of the newer TV Plossls, with the undercut. I was surprised, because my previous experience binoviewing the Moon in my 10" and 8" Dobs with a pair of new TV Plossl 25mm (at 12mm or shorter due to an OCA) was nothing special. In those cases, I preferred pairs of BGO's or even SA LERs. Maybe I should try binoviewing the Moon with my shorter focal length TV Plossls?

Next I turned to Jupiter. All four Galilean moons were lined up to the west of the planet. They were about equally spaced. A nice show. I could tell they were not stars, though they were not quite resolved as disks. The NEB and SEB were obvious and easy. The polar regions were also not difficult. When the seeing cleared a bit, I could begin to make out a few more bands. Switching among the eyepieces, I could discern no variation in the level of detail or perceived contrast. Especially when switching quickly among the three "parfocal" eyepieces, no differences were seen in the images. Even the magnifications were close enough that the size of the disk did not change appreciably.

I wouldn't want to make a final judgment based on this comparo. Smaller apertures often cannot show the subtle differences among eyepieces that larger ones can. And the seeing was only mediocre. A better comparo would be in a larger aperture during better seeing. But that night was cold and I knew the seeing wasn't the best. That's why I took out the 90mm, and not my 8" or 10" Dob.

Maybe next time.

Mike


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5639091 - 01/23/13 03:19 PM

Quote:

OK, I can't take the pressure any more. I'll come clean with my comparo.

The same night I took out my 90mm Mak and the Q-Turret, of course I had four eyepieces along with me, too. They were the BGO 9, SF (Sheldon Faworski) Ortho 10.5, TV Plossl 11 ... and the BCO 10. According to Clear Sky Chart, the seeing was supposed to be "poor," but I think it was better than that. I'd give it about a 3.5 to 4 out of five. The Moon was one day past first quarter.

Except for the BGO 9, the eyepieces were nearly parfocal. I just needed to move two of them up a little in the focuser holders. So I could switch the Q-Turret quickly and easily among the BCO 10, SF 10.5 and TV Plossl 11. For the BGO 9, I had to use the focus knob on the 90mm Mak.

The magnifications and exit pupils were:

BGO 9 _____ 167x _____ 0.9mm
BCO 10 ____ 150x _____ 1.0mm
SF 10.5 ____ 143x _____ 1.1mm
TV 11 ______ 136x _____ 1.1mm

First I observed the Moon. All four eyepieces gave a comparable view of the lunar surface. I couldn't find any detail that was visible in any of the four eyepieces that wasn't visible in all four. But the TV Plossl 11 gave me the most pleasing presentation. There was something about it that was just more "contrasty."

I looked for some detail that was seen in the TeleVue that I couldn't see in any of the others, but there wasn't any. Somehow, though, the TV Plossl presented an image that was "contrastier" which gave the illusion perhaps of a sharper image. This was especially noticeable on the maria, away from the terminator. Maybe this was due to the "coffee" tone? The 11mm is one of the newer TV Plossls, with the undercut. I was surprised, because my previous experience binoviewing the Moon in my 10" and 8" Dobs with a pair of new TV Plossl 25mm (at 12mm or shorter due to an OCA) was nothing special. In those cases, I preferred pairs of BGO's or even SA LERs. Maybe I should try binoviewing the Moon with my shorter focal length TV Plossls?

Next I turned to Jupiter. All four Galilean moons were lined up to the west of the planet. They were about equally spaced. A nice show. I could tell they were not stars, though they were not quite resolved as disks. The NEB and SEB were obvious and easy. The polar regions were also not difficult. When the seeing cleared a bit, I could begin to make out a few more bands. Switching among the eyepieces, I could discern no variation in the level of detail or perceived contrast. Especially when switching quickly among the three "parfocal" eyepieces, no differences were seen in the images. Even the magnifications were close enough that the size of the disk did not change appreciably.

I wouldn't want to make a final judgment based on this comparo. Smaller apertures often cannot show the subtle differences among eyepieces that larger ones can. And the seeing was only mediocre. A better comparo would be in a larger aperture during better seeing. But that night was cold and I knew the seeing wasn't the best. That's why I took out the 90mm, and not my 8" or 10" Dob.

Maybe next time.

Mike




Thanxs for info!!!


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BillP
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5639152 - 01/23/13 04:04 PM

Quote:

...the TV Plossl presented an image that was "contrastier" which gave the illusion perhaps of a sharper image. This was especially noticeable on the maria, away from the terminator. Maybe this was due to the "coffee" tone?




Yup...my experience as well with the Maria. Warmer toned eyepieces show Maria features a little better than cooler toned eyepieces. However, take that warmer toned eyepiece and turn it on finely detailed ejecta patterns in and around craters, and all of a sudden it does not show as well as the cooler toned eyepiece will IME. In the end, no one tonal quality is good for all details on the Moon since it is just too rich and varied of a target.


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ausastronomerModerator
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5639349 - 01/23/13 06:12 PM

Keep it on topic please everyone. The thread is about Baader orthos.

Eyepiece turrets, vintage focusers and the like can be discussed in a separate thread.

Cheers,


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keroppilee
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ausastronomer]
      #5639420 - 01/23/13 06:52 PM

I already have a widefield/finder piece in the es 82* 30mm, and a good mid power piece in the es 82* 11mm. Would you recommend the 6mm BCO as a good high power/planetary? Or is it super difficult to use a non widefield piece at that magnification?

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Peter Natscher
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5639503 - 01/23/13 08:02 PM

I like observing the moon with neutral-toned eyepieces (Brandon's) that show the surface coloring as it really s and more realistically -- a cool gray color. There is no sunrise/sunset earth-like atmospheric coloring on the moon.

Quote:

Quote:

...the TV Plossl presented an image that was "contrastier" which gave the illusion perhaps of a sharper image. This was especially noticeable on the maria, away from the terminator. Maybe this was due to the "coffee" tone?




Yup...my experience as well with the Maria. Warmer toned eyepieces show Maria features a little better than cooler toned eyepieces. However, take that warmer toned eyepiece and turn it on finely detailed ejecta patterns in and around craters, and all of a sudden it does not show as well as the cooler toned eyepiece will IME. In the end, no one tonal quality is good for all details on the Moon since it is just too rich and varied of a target.




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stevetaylor199
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5639560 - 01/23/13 08:57 PM

Chris, if you're using an undriven dob as I believe your Skyquest 8" may be, you might consider another ES 82 eyepiece. A 6mm ortho will have less than half the field of view as your 11mm ES 82. I found that the BCO 6 has a wider and more comfortable FOV than an older Baader 6mm ortho, but it's still pretty limited compared to the 82 deg FOV that allows for such relaxed tracking.

If you're comfortable with moving your scope more than twice as fast to track an object as you currently do with your ES 11, and you can also deal with less eye relief, then try out the BCO. I haven't tried mine in my 8" dob yet, but my expectation is to stick with my ES 6.7 for planet viewing with that scope.


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johnnyha
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5639600 - 01/23/13 09:40 PM

Thanks y'all, I'm thinking about getting a set myself. Looking forward to more reviews of the 6, 10, and 18.

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Traveler
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5639953 - 01/24/13 02:14 AM

Before i buy some BCO's i have two questions:

Are these BCO's really different (optical wise) then the BGO's besides the differences in coating?

Is it possible to undo the BCO's from the eyeguards? How does that look? Maybe someone is able to show us a picture?


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Bill Weir
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: keroppilee]
      #5639963 - 01/24/13 02:29 AM

Quote:

Would you recommend the 6mm BCO as a good high power/planetary? Or is it super difficult to use a non widefield piece at that magnification?




I would. I just got back from checking out my new 6mm BCO using my f/8 6". I picked it up at the mailbox just a few minutes before. (so much for the equipment curse) The seeing wasn't the best but still Jupiter was fabulous with nice colours and the four moons showed as tiny discs and there was noticeable colour differences between them.

On the Moon I was very impressed. The ejecta around the crater Kepler was as good as I've ever seen it. I can also say the same about the Aristarchus-Herodotu-Vallis Schröter area. I sequenced though my 5mm BGO, 6mm BCO and 7mm UO HD on both objects and all three behaved similarly except with the different magnifications. I'm happy with my purchase.

If you're scope moves smoothly and you're competent with guiding it then a 6mm ortho will be fine. Just don't expect to not be always moving something.

Bill


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BillP
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Traveler]
      #5640387 - 01/24/13 10:42 AM

Quote:

Are these BCO's really different (optical wise) then the BGO's besides the differences in coating?




They are the same in that they are an Abbe Design.

They are different in that this Abbe design is modified relative to the BGOs since the lenses are much larger in diameter.

At the eye, for me the perceived difference is that the BCOs present a slightly brighter image than the BGOs. And of course the field stop is larger so the AFOV is larger in the BCO.


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keroppilee
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5640566 - 01/24/13 12:24 PM

thanks for the advice. so far the most i've had to move my scope is when i barlow my 11mm to 2x. I don't find it that bad but I do want to give a high mag not so widefield a try to see if i can handle it.

Edited by keroppilee (01/24/13 01:03 PM)


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ThomasM
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5644876 - 01/26/13 06:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Are these BCO's really different (optical wise) then the BGO's besides the differences in coating?




They are the same in that they are an Abbe Design.

They are different in that this Abbe design is modified relative to the BGOs since the lenses are much larger in diameter.

At the eye, for me the perceived difference is that the BCOs present a slightly brighter image than the BGOs.




I fully agree, the transmission of the 10 mm BCO is very high, 97 %.
Since several people now own these eypecies, has anybody compared them with the top notch, such as Zeiss abbe?

best regards

Thomas


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5644940 - 01/26/13 07:15 PM

I got my 18 BCO a few days ago but nothing but clouds here till Monday. Not that I mind as we are getting much needed rain. Sadly I have no Zeiss to compare it to. However I can match mags with my 24 Brandon using various barlows and Powermates. I like the look of the BCO, it feels solid, the extra FOV is a plus and the eyecup is comfortable if a bit on the thin side. David

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John Huntley
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5645075 - 01/26/13 08:23 PM

I've compared the 18mm BCO with the same focal length BGO and I felt the BCO showed just a bit more contrast and brighness on M42 and M81 and 82. Both seemed equally sharp on star images although the BCO showed some distortion in the outer 10% or so of the field of view when used with my F/6.5 and F/7.5 refractors.

Edited by John Huntley (01/26/13 08:24 PM)


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dscarpa
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5652622 - 01/30/13 03:59 PM

I tried out my 18 BCO in my IM-715 by itself and with my 1.5X Siebert and 2X TV barlows. I was viewing the Moon with fair seeing. Image quality is very good but there was some vignetting with the barlows. There was more with the 2X but it was only 2-3 degrees. David

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Gilbert D
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5652878 - 01/30/13 05:57 PM

How does BCO 18mm compare to Sterling Plossl 17mm? I'm thinking about getting either one.
And how about BCO 10mm vs Sterling Plossl 12.5mm?


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BillP
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Gilbert D]
      #5654489 - 01/31/13 03:06 PM

Quote:

How does BCO 18mm compare to Sterling Plossl 17mm? I'm thinking about getting either one.
And how about BCO 10mm vs Sterling Plossl 12.5mm?




That sounds fun...the 17 vs the 18. Will do that next clear evening 10mm and 12.5mm are too far apart for meaningful comparison since the exit pupil of the 12.5mm will be approx 56% brighter! The 17 vs 18 is a little more level with the 18mm's exit pupil being about 12% brighter.


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dscarpa
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5658004 - 02/02/13 12:00 PM

I used the 18 BCO with a 1.5X Siebert barlow in my IM-715 on the Moon, Jupiter and Saturn with very good conditions. Performance was impressive. I did back to back the Moon with a 13 Ethos and 10 XW and didn't take a hit in image quality with the BCO. I used the BCO back to back barlowed to the same power on the Moon in the same scope on another night with fair conditions and the Brandon had an advantage contrast wise. David

Edited by dscarpa (02/02/13 12:03 PM)


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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5658046 - 02/02/13 12:29 PM

When viewing the Moon through my 90mm Mak, a TV Plossl 11m gave me better contrast than the BCO 10, FO 10.5 or BGO 9mm, especially on the maria. Not appreciably finer detail, but more contrast.

Mike


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dyslexic nam
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5659751 - 02/03/13 11:14 AM

Quote:

Gee, has this topic gone off into an examination of any eyepiece that comes to mind? The OP, and I, would like to know about anyone's actual use of a BCO since being delivered this past week or two, not yadda-yadda-yadda. Seeesh!




+

Quote:

I like observing the moon with neutral-toned eyepieces (Brandon's) that show the surface coloring as it really s and more realistically -- a cool gray color. There is no sunrise/sunset earth-like atmospheric coloring on the moon.




= irony


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dscarpa
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5659933 - 02/03/13 12:52 PM

There were high thin clouds on both nights and the BCO's tone was very similar to my XWs, Delos and such with the Moon being white. My T6s would show gray with clear and yellow with thin clouds. The Badders also gave sharp high contrast performance on Jupiter and Saturn. BCOs give a quality image for not much money. Orthos for sure! David

Edited by dscarpa (02/03/13 05:23 PM)


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: dyslexic nam]
      #5673412 - 02/11/13 01:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Gee, has this topic gone off into an examination of any eyepiece that comes to mind? The OP, and I, would like to know about anyone's actual use of a BCO since being delivered this past week or two, not yadda-yadda-yadda. Seeesh!




+

Quote:

I like observing the moon with neutral-toned eyepieces (Brandon's) that show the surface coloring as it really s and more realistically -- a cool gray color. There is no sunrise/sunset earth-like atmospheric coloring on the moon.




= irony





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Gilbert D
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5704613 - 02/28/13 12:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

How does BCO 18mm compare to Sterling Plossl 17mm? I'm thinking about getting either one.
And how about BCO 10mm vs Sterling Plossl 12.5mm?




That sounds fun...the 17 vs the 18. Will do that next clear evening 10mm and 12.5mm are too far apart for meaningful comparison since the exit pupil of the 12.5mm will be approx 56% brighter! The 17 vs 18 is a little more level with the 18mm's exit pupil being about 12% brighter.



Hi Bill,
Have you got a chance to compare the 17mm Sterling Plossl and the 18mm BCO? Looking forward to your assessment.


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Alvin Huey
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Gilbert D]
      #5705423 - 02/28/13 02:08 PM

I have the 6 and 10mm BCO and will try and do some real world comparisons with my 6 and 10mm Delos and 6 and 10mm ZAO-II and report back here.

Mind, that I report what I see through the eyepiece, not theory. Those who have seen my reports/posts in the past...I do see differences between the ZAO-II, Delos and Ethos (best to worst in that order). My views are validated and confirmed by others on the field with me...and they are also very experienced observers.

I use my 22" for the comparisons as I know from past experience and what others have reported, the larger the telescope, the wider the difference is...think of a slope on a 2D graph, the x-axis is the aperture and y-axis is the "view"...the difference between two linear lines gets wider as we go right on the x-axis. I also have a 30" reflector in my garage, which I may end up using for the comparison. I just need help setting that thing up.

With my friend's 48" reflector, the difference becomes pretty obvious.

I did get a quick first light to make sure it works, etc...using my two little scopes: 4" f/11 AstroTelescopes and 6" f/7.7 Tak TOA150. One thing I noticed is that it is parfocal with my 24mm Panoptic finder eyepiece and Delos eyepieces. Very nice. The BGO's require a bit of in-focus (about 10mm - I didn't measure)


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Sarkikos
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5705434 - 02/28/13 02:21 PM

That sounds great, Alvin. I was wondering when you would get around to field testing these BCO's!

I notice that on your website, in terms of "going deep" you rate the BGO's between the Zeiss and Ethos, but a bit closer to the Zeiss. So does this mean that for transmission, the BGO's are about equal to the Delos, or even between the Zeiss and Delos?

I'm curious where the BCO's will fall on this continuum.

Mike


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dcoyle
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5705478 - 02/28/13 02:46 PM

Very much look forward to your observations, Alvin.

Dan


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Alvin Huey
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5705501 - 02/28/13 02:56 PM

Quote:



I notice that on your website, in terms of "going deep" you rate the BGO's between the Zeiss and Ethos, but a bit closer to the Zeiss. So does this mean that for transmission, the BGO's are about equal to the Delos, or even between the Zeiss and Delos?

Mike




Mike,

I don't know as I don't own a 6mm BGO, so I can not do a direct comparison. The Delos I own are the 6, 8, 10 and 14mm lengths. There are no BGO's in the same focal lengths and I really prefer to compare exact focal lengths as differing magnifications can and will make the difference.

My friend who owns a 6mm BGO, but I haven't seen him in two years.

I've always wondered too...


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Alvin Huey
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5705504 - 02/28/13 02:56 PM

I'm also wondering how "good" the BCO barlow is...I don't expect to be close to my TMB 1.8x ED barlow, but who knows. Anyone played with one? Any in or out of focus required versus native eyepiece?

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Starman1
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5705569 - 02/28/13 03:29 PM

Quote:

I'm also wondering how "good" the BCO barlow is...I don't expect to be close to my TMB 1.8x ED barlow, but who knows. Anyone played with one? Any in or out of focus required versus native eyepiece?



Just tried it at infinity focus and it seemed to require 10-13mm additional inward focuser movement to achieve focus, like a typical barlow.
BCO refers to the ortho eyepieces in the Q Series
BCP refers to the plossl eyepiece in the Q Series
Q-Barlow refers to the 2.25X barlow in the Q Series.


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John Huntley
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5705608 - 02/28/13 03:45 PM

Alvin,

I've just been playing with the Baader Q-Turret 2.25x barlow and some BCO's and BGO's. With the 18mm BCO the barlow requires around 10mm of inwards focuser movement to regain sharp focus. With the 18mm BGO this is reduced to just ~2mm.

I repeated this with the 6mm BCO and BGO's and got 6mm of inwards required for the 6mm BCO and virtually no change of focus position for the 6mm BGO.

The scope was a Vixen ED102SS F/6.5 refractor and the subject was Sirius.

Edited by John Huntley (02/28/13 03:46 PM)


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Alvin Huey
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5705649 - 02/28/13 04:09 PM

Thanks Don and John!

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5705682 - 02/28/13 04:27 PM

Hi Folks,

last Weekend I could do a short indoor check of the Baader Classic Ortho.
I plugged it in the focusser of a scope, aimed the scope towards a horizontal bar
and shifted it up and down.
The bar appeared to be bended at the outer part of the field of view.
I checked the same bar with a Kasai Ortho (it looks like the volcano
top but does not state multicoatings).
The bar appeared significantly less bended at the edge of field,
wich was admittedly narrower.
To me the Baader classic Ortho is not an orthoscopic eyepiece.

The field stop of the exepiece looked not cut out sharp, but somewhat rough and fuzzy.
I was not at all impressed by this new eyepiece line.

Cheers, Karsten


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Lance1234
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5705803 - 02/28/13 05:30 PM

Quote:


Since several people now own these eypecies, has anybody compared them with the top notch, such as Zeiss abbe?

best regards

Thomas




Thomas,
While not ZAOs, I was able to compare one sample of the 10mm & 16mm BCO against my 10mm & 16mm Carl Zeiss Jena (CZJ). The conditions were definitely not the best, lots of light pollution (orange-red zone) and unstable air. Popped into my C9.25, the BCOs were very sharp, the transmission was excellent, and they were a pleasure to use. On Jupiter, with the seeing conditions as they were, they were very close with maybe just a hint of additional detail visible through the CZJ at both magnifications. Where I did notice a more pronounced difference was on M3 & M13 which were clearly better resolved in the CZJs at both magnifications.

So how would I rate them? Best value: BCO, just a great eyepiece for the money. Best optics: CZJ (but you pay for it both in $$$ and/or waiting for one to pop up on the used market).

Edited by Lance1234 (02/28/13 05:37 PM)


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tomharri
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Lance1234]
      #5705865 - 02/28/13 05:56 PM

Had a set ZAO 2's, found so many eyepieces just as good, like Pentax XW's, out went the Zeisses.

The latest Baaders, Kasai, in fact any ordinary available ortho/plossl is less sharp/contrasty than the Pentax or the new Delos.


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5705933 - 02/28/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

When viewing the Moon through my 90mm Mak, a TV Plossl 11m gave me better contrast than the BCO 10, FO 10.5 or BGO 9mm, especially on the maria. Not appreciably finer detail, but more contrast.

Mike




Hi Mike,
The 1 extra mm in the TV could affect perceived contrasts though - particularly in less than good seeing.

One person mentions rough or fuzzy fieldstop but mines sharp. Got my 18 and 10mm today (thanks Mr. P.) . Haven't used em but I'm feeling they'll be at least ok. I don't have demanding fast scopes though. My Abbes by UO are excellent as a matter of fact.

Pete


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: tomharri]
      #5705974 - 02/28/13 06:54 PM

Quote:

Had a set ZAO 2's, found so many eyepieces just as good, like Pentax XW's, out went the Zeisses.

The latest Baaders, Kasai, in fact any ordinary available ortho/plossl is less sharp/contrasty than the Pentax or the new Delos.




For me, the BGO 5mm and BCO 6mm seem to equal my XW 5mm on fine lunar detail and picking Sirius B out from the glow of Sirus A. The XW's 70 degree field, massive eye lens and 20mm of eye relief are lovely to have of course and I'd not be without them


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Hesiod
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: KaStern]
      #5706013 - 02/28/13 07:11 PM

Quote:

The field stop of the exepiece looked not cut out sharp, but somewhat rough and fuzzy



While I agree with you about distorsion and a somewhat "soft" 10-15% edge (and, theoretically, about the definition of "orthoscopy"), I found a quite sharp FS (at least as sharp as the one in TV Plossl and BGO) in my samples (10 and 18 mm). Maybe is the "poor chinese QC" thing ...


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5706056 - 02/28/13 07:38 PM

Pete,

Quote:

The 1 extra mm in the TV could affect perceived contrasts though - particularly in less than good seeing.




I think a better guide to perceived contrast is the difference in exit pupil, and not so much a millimeter or two in focal length of the eyepiece, depending on the telescope, of course.

In my 90mm f/13.3 Mak, the TV Plossl 11 gave a 0.83mm exit pupil, the FO 10.5 gave a 0.79mm exit pupil, the BCO 10 gave a 0.75mm exit pupil, and the BGO 9 gave a 0.68mm exit pupil.

Undoubtedly this is higher accuracy than is warranted by the probable error and fudging involved in the advertised focal lengths of these eyepieces. So I think it'd be fairer to round to the nearest tenth and say that the TV Plossl 11, FO 10.5 and BCO 10 all yield 0.8mm exit pupil, while the BGO 9 gives 0.7mm exit pupil.

Looked at this way, my comparo - especially among these first three eyepieces - should have more weight when I say that the TV Plossl gave me better perceived contrast for lunar.

I know a lot of observers will criticize comparos among eyepieces which do not have the exact same focal length. How many times have we read this? But to me it does make more sense to consider the exit pupil produced by the combination of eyepieces and telescope, and not so much a strict protocol based on "exact" focal lengths of eyepieces.

Mike


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5706420 - 02/28/13 11:43 PM

I am SO tempted to pick up a pair of 18mm BCOs... and yet something tells me there is a very good reason why I had to spend $1 extra on my 18.5mm KK Circle T Volcano Tops...

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5706478 - 03/01/13 12:37 AM

The TV plossls seem to consistently rate as THE best planetary eyepieces . I'm not adding Carl Z. Or Brandon's into the mix but between Radians, Pans, BGOs, UO ABBES ETC. they come out on top and with the preferred "coffee tone" ever mentioned.

So long as these new Orthos at least meet UO Abbé levels of contrast and sharpness ill enjoy them . Thanks for your wisdom Mike


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ThomasM
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5761239 - 03/27/13 08:28 PM

Quote:

I have the 6 and 10mm BCO and will try and do some real world comparisons with my 6 and 10mm Delos and 6 and 10mm ZAO-II and report back here.







Hi Alvin,

did you found time to do a comparison with the BCOs?

best regards

Thomas


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5763118 - 03/28/13 08:22 PM

Not yet as I haven't been out to a dark site since.

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riverlaw
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #6236908 - 12/06/13 09:27 AM

Any more user reports? Thanks, Scott

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: riverlaw]
      #6240133 - 12/08/13 01:14 AM


Any updates?
I wanted to get the 6mm BCO to be used in both my scopes for planetary but not sure how good is it.


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CeleNoptic]
      #6240264 - 12/08/13 05:00 AM

The 6mm seems to me quite good compared to others 6mm "cheap" EPs (Celestron OMNI, various "Chinese Plossls", TAL 6.3mm); I think it is rather comfortable (in fact it is the only one of the whole bunch where I could see the full aFOV without removing something). However the Tal exhibits a little less scattering.
In any case if you could find a t-japan instead my advice is to grab it


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ibase
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CeleNoptic]
      #6240295 - 12/08/13 05:46 AM

Quote:


Any updates?
I wanted to get the 6mm BCO to be used in both my scopes for planetary but not sure how good is it.




The 6mm BCO is as good as the old Baader BGO 6mm. (Which would make them at par with the UO-HD and the new incarnations of same.)


BCO 6mm & BGO 6mm

The BCO 6mm has an extra 25% bigger field than the BGO (40-deg. vs 50-deg. on the BCO) useful for making it easier to acquire a planet, but compromises with some softness at the edges. See more at blog post review, click here.

The BCO 10mm is ranked in-between the ZAO II and the Delos on axis, according to report linked to in the blog.

Best,


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CeleNoptic
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Hesiod]
      #6240711 - 12/08/13 12:26 PM

Quote:

The 6mm seems to me quite good compared to others 6mm "cheap" EPs (Celestron OMNI, various "Chinese Plossls", TAL 6.3mm); I think it is rather comfortable (in fact it is the only one of the whole bunch where I could see the full aFOV without removing something). However the Tal exhibits a little less scattering.
In any case if you could find a t-japan instead my advice is to grab it



Hi Hesiod,
I appreciate your info. By saying "t-japan" you probably mean older Towa volcano top orthos from Vixen or Celestron, right? As opposed to some other reviews you prefer them over the new BCOs. Why? Do they show more details on the Moon and planets, or show them easier or clearer? Better scatter control? What about splitting double stars like Sirius or Rigel? As I've said I want to use the 6mm BCO in my f/6 Dob, so it would be interesting to know for what f-ratio you got better results for t-japans? It would be good if you provide more details. Thanks.


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Hesiod
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CeleNoptic]
      #6240963 - 12/08/13 02:44 PM

Er,well I mean those Abbe labeled T-Japan (I bought mine as "Tani" and nothing else).
I use them mainly with a 100mm f/10 refractor.
I find more comfortable the "volcanic" top of the Tani than the "atholl-like" top of the BCO (but it is highly subjective, and the BCO is a comfortable EP anyway).
I own 3 BCO (6-10-18) and my feeling is that they behave in a rather different way.
I found the 18mm a superb deep sky EP (almost on par with my XW20), while rather so-so on Moon and Sun because it shows too much distortion and I do not like a "pear-shaped" Sun at all.
The 10 mm is in my opinion the most balanced of the bunch (a bit of astigmatism, a bit of distorsion at the edge but clear sharp in the middle).
The 6mm is the "bad guy"..better than a cheap Plossl, but it shows to my eye a pinch of scattering more than the Tani In my 100mm refractor it is easier to split Izar; some low contrast features on Jupiter (ex details whitin the SEB) are more evident; Rigel A is more "intrusive"(the large double is easily solved even in the BCO; however a lower magnification provides a better view); pushing the refractor near its resolving limit is easier using the Tani (the disks of Jabbah A and B where more clearly splitted; 52 Or, while not solved due to bad seeing, appeared more a "peanut" than a line).
Overall the BCO are good -and almost outstanding in reason of their price- and their enlarged aFOV makes them good for all uses, while I judge the Tani a more double stars /planets-oriented choice (my compact travel kit consists of a 66/400, the 3 BCOs and a 2x Barlow).

Edited by Hesiod (12/08/13 02:45 PM)


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Hesiod]
      #6241449 - 12/08/13 07:49 PM

For splitting Sirius with my 12" dob I found the BGO 6mm the most effective followed by the BCO 6mm and the Pentax XW 5mm(tied)and then the Ethos 6mm. The Circle-T 6mm "volcano top" I also had when I was undertaking this comparison struggled to show more than occasional glimpses of the Pup star.

I think the Baader Classic Orthos are excellent value for money but I wish there were a few more in the range.


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #6241961 - 12/09/13 02:14 AM

Thanks everybody for your input, it's really helpful.

Hesiod,
thanks a lot for your generous report, that's exactly what I needed to know. I guess, I'll put VT ortho on the top on my list. But I feel, I need to do more research how to discriminate between them. There are a huge variety of the VTs, like Tani, Towa, KD etc , so, I probably will take my time and research their pedigree. And the 6mm BCO will be #2 on my list. The only thing that bothers me is that I've already read about slightly more scatter in BCOs as compared to BGOs on planets. Although, the price is tempting... will see . As for the DSO EPs I'll try to decide between the 18mm BCO and the 17-20mm Sterling/High Grade plossls to be added to my DSO set. They, seem, all have rectilinear distortion (pear- or football-shaped planetary disks off-axis), but have excellent light transmission for deep sky observing.


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Hesiod
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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CeleNoptic]
      #6242461 - 12/09/13 11:35 AM

I hope I have not made too many mistakes in grammar and the meaning was understood .
The difference in scattering control between BCO and Tani is far lesser than the difference between BCOs and many others EPs in their price range (in this regard the BCO seems to me more close to the premium EPs...).
I know that Mr Tani produced many different batches of his orthoscopic Abbe eyepieces, and it is possible that over time the coatings are changed (i do not know to which batch mine belong).
Anyway, in your Dob the extra field provided by a BCO is a nice feature, and some could find it more useful than an even lower scattering.
As for the DSOs I must admit I am biased toward the "narrow aFOVs" (but some time ago, not very much indeed, a 50° EP was a "wide angle".. ), but the most would prefer the more "immersive" experience provided by a SWA, like the (very) nice Edge On or one of the many sold by all the main brands


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Hesiod]
      #6242539 - 12/09/13 12:23 PM

Hesiod,

Your English is very good - Please tell us more Anytime!

Thank you,
-Chuck


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: JustaBoy]
      #6243730 - 12/09/13 09:56 PM

Your English is fine, Hesiod, but I'm with Huntley on this. I did some daylight Barlow testing some years ago, and none of the eyepieces I tested showed stray light like my two UO volcano tops. There was a ring of fire of stray light around both my 12.5 and 7mm models. No other eyepiece I tested, TV Plossls, TMB Planetaries, none of them displayed any significant flaring except the Japanese volcano tops, and both of mine did. I don't own the BCO 6mm (only the 10mm). I'd bet a dime to a dollar from what I've seen the BCOs will manage stray light better than the volcano tops.

Mis dos centavos


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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #6353752 - 02/03/14 05:08 PM

Just had a chance to briefly compare scatter levels of 18mm Baader Classic Ortho vs the mighty SMC Pentax O-18. The BCO exhibited just a little bit more scatter than the Pentax. They were really close. Method of comparison was two eyepieces in the Mark V, on a bright star and then judging the size of the scattered light cloud in relation to nearby faint stars with averted vision. I know this is probably very subjective to quantify this observation in numbers, but if Pentax' scatter cloud was at about 40% distance from the bright star to the faint star then the BCO was at about 50%. It wasn't too far behind and later on this night it has rendered absolutely phenomenal and breathtaking Jupiter at 358X mag in the 10" MCT. Color rendition was superb. For the money I think BCO is a steal.

My complains on the BCO are as following:

1) Soft field stop. The AFOV is also huge, if compared to the Pentax SMC or benchmark orthoscopic eyepieces like CZJ. If I would be Baader, I wouldn't expand the AFOV or at least I wouldn't call it "Classic".

2) Wing eyeguards. Of course this is subjective but I like minimal look more than rubber. Thanks to a chance, standard 1.25" cap serves as a good lens cap if the rubber part is removed.

3) The eye lens is sunken a little bit and it fogs up more easily than Pentax SMC or 16mm TMB SMC. I would place it right there at the surface.

But who am I to design eyepieces? BCO is a fantastic value and a gift from Baader to all amateurs I think. Just a small piece of observation.


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