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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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tag1260
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What IS a Planetary eyepiece?
      #5611902 - 01/08/13 12:53 PM

What make an eyepiece a so called Planetary? Is it the size, the design, or what? Is a 5mm TMB Planetary just a 5mm eyepiece with a gimmicky name or is there something special that make it a planetary. Inquiring minds need to know!!!

Thanks


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dpwoos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5611914 - 01/08/13 01:07 PM

What makes a "sports" car?

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keroppilee
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5612052 - 01/08/13 02:21 PM

the only factor i can think of that ISNT up for personal preference (FOV and such) would be fairly high magnification.

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dpwoos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: keroppilee]
      #5612072 - 01/08/13 02:31 PM

Even magnification depends on the focal length of the scope.

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Jim Rosenstock
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5612098 - 01/08/13 02:46 PM

Heck, we don't even know what a Planet is, anymore.

I had a great planetary eyepiece, but I made the mistake of looking at Pluto with it.

Now it's just a "minor eyepiece"....


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Dave Ittner
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5612101 - 01/08/13 02:48 PM

+1

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David Knisely
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5612107 - 01/08/13 02:50 PM

Quote:

What make an eyepiece a so called Planetary? Is it the size, the design, or what? Is a 5mm TMB Planetary just a 5mm eyepiece with a gimmicky name or is there something special that make it a planetary. Inquiring minds need to know!!!

Thanks




It is just an eyepiece that yields the higher power needed to view detail on the moon and planets. Some people require it to be limited in design complexity (as few elements as feasible) and high in coating quality to reduce the amount of scattered light in the field, but other people use "planetary" eyepieces that have many elements. Many so-called "planetary" eyepieces have focal lengths smaller than around 15mm, but in a very long focal length telescope, this may not be true. The same goes for apparent field of view, as some people who call an eyepiece a "Planetary" eyepiece often feel their fields of view are less than around 60 degrees. Again, this isn't universally so. One of my favorite eyepieces for planetary viewing is my 8-element 5-8mm Speers Waler variable focal length eyepiece with a whopping 78 degree apparent field of view. It violates both ideas of limiting the number of elements and limiting the field of view. In the end, whatever eyepiece you like to use to get the powers you need for viewing the planets will be a "planetary" eyepiece for you. Clear skies to you.


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tag1260
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5612113 - 01/08/13 02:54 PM

OK. Sounds like it's just a marketing hype when you use the term "Planetary Eyepiece". As was stated it could be anything in your arsenal.

Thanks


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Tank
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5612115 - 01/08/13 02:55 PM

Best in these areas:
light transmission
scatter control
Contrast

Main due to:
minimal glass elements
coatings
polish


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BillP
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5612116 - 01/08/13 02:57 PM

A "planetary" eyepiece is one that is optimized for the task of planetary observing - simple as that. Classically, this has been considered to be an eyepiece that shows the least distortion to the image (hence the Abbe design becoming popular for this as it has an "orthoscopic" field of view), and an eyepiece which best preserves image brightness and contrast (hence why minimum amount of glass is usually noted as less glass means brighter and higher contrast since less optical elements and surfaces to scatter and absorb light).

So those are IMO the classical views of planetary eyepieces. Today however, with technology marching on, this is getting challenged. With latest multicoating technologies element count "can be" increased and still retain outstanding transmission and contrast. More elements also means wider AFOVs and better eye relief also, which can be benefitial traits for a planetary eyepiece. So today there are some challengers to the classic planetary such as the Pentax XW series, Leica Vario ASPH Zoom, and the TV Ethos for many.

In the end, IMO, the general characteristics of a "planetary" eyepiece would be:

1. Maximum Transmission possible compared to other eyepieces (i.e., best coatings and least glass)

2. Maximum Contrast compared to other eyepieces (i.e., best polish for least scatter, best application of the coatings for least scatter, elimination of all stray light within the eyepiece for least scatter)

3. Lack of Visible Distortions (or greatly minimized) compared to other eyepieces (i.e., an orthoscopic field of view and so the view stays as true to what the telescope is producing; no/little visible AMD and RD so planets stay round and linear features do not bend when near field stop)

4. Neutral Tonal Quality compared to other eyepieces (i.e., does not impart a hue or coloration to the view in any way so the view stays as true to what the telescope is producing)

------Nice to Haves------

5. Longer eye relief for more comfortable extended viewing

6. Larger AFOV for longer drift times in non-tracking scope mounts

Note - while there may be planetary eyepieces here and there, most all eyepiece lines I do not consider planetary because they do not offer focal lengths that are very close together. TMB Supermonos are an exception with focal lengths in 1mm increments from 4mm to 10mm. But in reality, when considering both fast APOs and slow SCTs, really need 1mm increments from 3mm to 14mm IMO to be considered a planetary "line"...or a zoom with this range.

Edited by BillP (01/08/13 05:03 PM)


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Monoeil
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5612132 - 01/08/13 03:06 PM

You are lucky. My planetary eyepieces show me planets ONLY, unless it is because of the light pollution... I am not sure. Maybe I should buy some deep sky eyepieces?

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tag1260
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Monoeil]
      #5612149 - 01/08/13 03:16 PM

Well, you all knew this was leading up to another question. What is a good planetary to consider under $100 ? I already have a 12mm Paradigm and I have an 8mm on it's way. I use a 12" f/5 dob scope which I'm sure will make a difference. I have enough money left in my eyepiece fund for one more.

Thanks


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JohnMurphyRN
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5612185 - 01/08/13 03:34 PM

Quote:

Well, you all knew this was leading up to another question. What is a good planetary to consider under $100 ? I already have a 12mm Paradigm and I have an 8mm on it's way. I use a 12" f/5 dob scope which I'm sure will make a difference. I have enough money left in my eyepiece fund for one more.

Thanks




ES82 6.7mm or just maybe 4.7mm


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Starman1
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5612191 - 01/08/13 03:38 PM

Quote:

Well, you all knew this was leading up to another question. What is a good planetary to consider under $100 ? I already have a 12mm Paradigm and I have an 8mm on it's way. I use a 12" f/5 dob scope which I'm sure will make a difference. I have enough money left in my eyepiece fund for one more.

Thanks



Well, the Paradigm should be OK.

What is a planetary eyepiece? Any eyepiece you use to look at planets with.
A non-planetary eyepiece can become one with a Barlow lens to up the magnification. Your 12mm becomes a shorter focal length when used with a Barlow.

The sad truth is that the difference between the very best and only average eyepiece is of a considerably smaller scale than the difference in seeing from night to night and even hour to hour. My lifetime-best view of Jupiter was with 18 elements in the focuser (!) at 456X. But seeing was essentially perfect in every way. Even my 12.5" was "aperture-limited" at that time.
It's a shame there was no really big scope nearby on that night.

What you need, when the seeing is like that is:
--sufficient aperture
--high magnification
--a cooled and collimated scope.
--a decent eyepiece and scope.

That's about it.


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dpwoos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5612201 - 01/08/13 03:45 PM

Quote:

One of my favorite eyepieces for planetary viewing is my 8-element 5-8mm Speers Waler variable focal length eyepiece with a whopping 78 degree apparent field of view.




Not being an eyepiece "collector" I don't covet a lot of eyepieces. However, the SW 5-8 variable is one I would love to try! These are hard to come by, and I have never even seen one. Enjoy it!


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BillP
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5612330 - 01/08/13 05:08 PM

Quote:

The sad truth is that the difference between the very best and only average eyepiece is of a considerably smaller scale than the difference in seeing from night to night and even hour to hour.




This is very true! However, I do not consider it a sad truth but a wonderful truth to be capitalized on because it means with the proper "planetary" eyepiece I can see a planet both a little better and a little more

To give an example of the other side of the scale...my all time best view of Mars was with a singlet sphere lens...one element contrast rocks

btw, isn't it cool when the views become aperture-limited instead of atmosphere-limited! I had an evening a few years ago where I ran out of eyepieces and multiply stacked Barlows as the view just stayed crystal clear no matter what insane magnification I was using. It was 3am and I was looking at my scopes (had a 5" and a 10" out) wondering how they were doing what they were doing. Moments like these makes one understand just how much we are limited by the atmosphere.

Edited by BillP (01/08/13 05:12 PM)


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Starman1
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: BillP]
      #5612436 - 01/08/13 06:15 PM

2003 apparition of Mars. 5" Maksutov, 1540mm focal length, 4.7mm Meade Series 4000 UWA eyepiece, magnification 328X.
NO scintilation of the image at all for 29 out of 30 seconds and so much detail visible in albedo features I decided to try something I'm not good at--sketching.
I made a map showing everything I could see and, using a good map later, identified about 50 named features on the planet. I really got to see what "aperture-limited" really meant.

October, 1987, Saturn high in the sky, 7" f/12 AstroPhysics refractor, Parks 3.8mm eyepiece in 2X Barlow, 1123X (!). We saw spokes hovering above the grooved rings, many belts and storms on the disk, Cassini's division all the way around, the Encke Minima, and, every now and then, a glimpse of the Encke Gap at the ends of the oval. Seeing contrast variations within the rings was unexpected, and the image is burned into my brain. Again, no scintillation of the image at all, and aperture-limited.

Eyepieces used? Garden-variety, whatever-was-available types.
Images seen? Stupendipity!


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SteveTheSwede
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5612487 - 01/08/13 06:42 PM

Quote:

Heck, we don't even know what a Planet is, anymore.





I know this was a joke, but I can't help pointing out that it's the exact other way around. Prior to when Pluto lost its status as a planet there existed no official definition of a planet at all. Since then there is one, so it's truer to say finally we know what a planet is

Steve


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csrlice12
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5612503 - 01/08/13 06:50 PM

No definition created by man has withstood the passage of time.......

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Rick Woods
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5612569 - 01/08/13 07:26 PM

Someone once asked me if his guitar was a "jazz guitar". I said it was if he played jazz on it.
Same principle here.


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Paul G
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5612607 - 01/08/13 07:52 PM

Quote:

Someone once asked me if his guitar was a "jazz guitar". I said it was if he played jazz on it.
Same principle here.




+1


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Paul G
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Tank]
      #5612616 - 01/08/13 07:55 PM

Quote:

Best in these areas:
light transmission
scatter control
Contrast

Main due to:
minimal glass elements
coatings
polish




Planets are usually so bright that light transmission isn't really important. 10% either way shouldn't make any difference. Scatter control and its effect on contrast is most important IMO.

Edited by Paul G (01/08/13 07:56 PM)


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ibase
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5612622 - 01/08/13 08:00 PM

Viewing a planet entails a lot of EP time to glimpse those otherwise unseen surface details which are visible in those fleeting moments of atmospheric stability. If one is not viewing comfortably, then the tendency is to call the night earlier than what would have been a longer run if the EP used was a high-comfort one (i.e., with good eye relief). Retiring earlier means missing out on those prized minute planetary details altogether even if one were using the uber-premium "planetary" EP. If scope used does not track, a wider AFoV EP is a plus (at least 70-deg AFoV where "widefield" starts). Couple that with good power and great transmission & contrast for a clear crisp image and sharp to the edge view that stays longer to observe before nudging, and you've got the ideal "planetary eyepiece." Among the EP's that I own & use frequently for this purpose, Televue's Delos 6mm fits the bill - generous eye relief (20mm), wide AFoV (72-deg), good power to pull in details, and great crisp images up to the edge of view. Just my 2 cents.

Best,


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Tank
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5612623 - 01/08/13 08:02 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

One of my favorite eyepieces for planetary viewing is my 8-element 5-8mm Speers Waler variable focal length eyepiece with a whopping 78 degree apparent field of view.




Not being an eyepiece "collector" I don't covet a lot of eyepieces. However, the SW 5-8 variable is one I would love to try! These are hard to come by, and I have never even seen one. Enjoy it!




Its a very good planetary performer and a very great all round EP:


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johnnyha
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: ibase]
      #5612627 - 01/08/13 08:04 PM

For actual viewing of planets I prefer binoviewing, I can bino ortho and plossl pairs for hours with no strain at all. I see more detail with two eyes and floaters are virtually eliminated.

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tag1260
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5613059 - 01/09/13 01:33 AM

Thanks for all the opinions and info. Looks like I'll be sitting tight where I am for a short time. I was out tonight with my Paradigm 12mm and I have to say, Jupiter was the best I've ever seen her. I barlowed the 12mm with my Celestron Ultima and I am impressed. If you would see where I view from when I can't get to a dark site you would understand. I've often thought a pellet gun might be my next viewing accessory, if you know what I mean. With the 8mm on the way I should be all set for a while.

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Kutno
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Paul G]
      #5613075 - 01/09/13 01:59 AM

Quote:

Planets are usually so bright that light transmission isn't really important. 10% either way shouldn't make any difference. Scatter control and its effect on contrast is most important IMO.






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cjc
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: BillP]
      #5613100 - 01/09/13 03:07 AM

I would emphasise Bill's point 2. in his list of characteristics for a planetary eyepiece. I find that some otherwise satisfactory eyepieces will produce strong distracting ghost images when viewing planets, ruining my concentration and removing some of the enjoyment. The TMB Planetary IIs are among those which are significantly affected.

I also dislike systems that flare up with something just out of view, though it is less of a hindrance to observing in practice. This is often an eyepiece issue, but it can also be caused by diffraction from the secondary spider in a Newtonian.


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george tatsis
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: cjc]
      #5613201 - 01/09/13 06:58 AM

Just for the record, last night I used the Agena SWA 15mm and 20mm with two inexpensive barlows (3X Meade #128, and 2X GSO ). The telescope used was a 120ED refractor. The combination of the 15mm +3X Barlow was as good as the Nagler Zoom at 5mm and the BGO 5mm ortho. Jupiter was equally good and contrasty in all of the above oculars.Go figure!

George


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BillP
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Paul G]
      #5613436 - 01/09/13 10:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Best in these areas:
light transmission
scatter control
Contrast

Main due to:
minimal glass elements
coatings
polish




Planets are usually so bright that light transmission isn't really important. 10% either way shouldn't make any difference. Scatter control and its effect on contrast is most important IMO.




This is aperture dependent. So transmission is critical for smaller aperture scopes since they will be at small exit pupils when at productuve planetary magnifications (which IMO includes ALL typical APOs). 10" and larger scopes and "typically" not so much of an issue...unless hunting a particularly faint planetary feature. Planets, like double stars, have many "challenge" features so they really are a playground of observing challenges.

Edited by BillP (01/09/13 10:10 AM)


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t.r.
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: BillP]
      #5613473 - 01/09/13 10:39 AM

Quote:

Moments like these makes one understand just how much we are limited by the atmosphere.



Along with Bill and Don, I have a "never forget it observation" illustrating well the planetary eyepiece debate...South Korea, fall of 1995, Seoul is famous for its smog, meaning stable seeing. On one particular night, I had the 4 inch Genesis loaded up with the TV 2.5x barlow and Nagler 4.8mm eyepiece producing 260x! I could have used more! The view I had of Jupiter and Ganymede transiting the face was a revelation! Throwing all the rules out the window about magnification per inch, exit pupil and number of elements in the optical train, I just sat back and enjoyed the most stable, clean view of Jove while seeing color, minute detail and even suspected albedo on Ganymede! It looked like a marble in 3-D transiting. Yep...I've said it before, location, location, location = seeing conditions that deliver those finer planetary details...the eyepiece is the smaller factor in the equation.


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CJK
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5613478 - 01/09/13 10:43 AM

Quote:

Heck, we don't even know what a Planet is, anymore.

I had a great planetary eyepiece, but I made the mistake of looking at Pluto with it.

Now it's just a "minor eyepiece"....






-- Chris


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Starman1
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5613523 - 01/09/13 11:19 AM

Quote:

Heck, we don't even know what a Planet is, anymore.

I had a great planetary eyepiece, but I made the mistake of looking at Pluto with it.

Now it's just a "minor eyepiece"....




Yeah, they made a mistake with that classification.

Only the old guys like us would have been disturbed by calling Sedna, Varuna, Haumea, Quaoar, MakeMake, Eris, Orcus, Ixion, and Pluto the "Ice Planets". Of course, that list is now over 1200 objects long (and growing) and it's not known how many of them are large enough to be gravitationally compressed into a "roundish shape". I note that recently they've divided the group into Plutinos, Cubewanos, and a 3rd category not fitting the orbital standards of the first groups.

Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune could have been the "Gas Planets".

And Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, and Ceres the "Rocky Planets"

You know, in retrospect, it was right to demote Pluto into just a large Trans-Neptunian Object. Otherwise, we could end up with a list of planets over a thousand long.


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Mike W
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5613564 - 01/09/13 11:44 AM

Televue Plossls are good, inexpensive planetary eyepieces.

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Mike W
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Tank]
      #5613572 - 01/09/13 11:48 AM

And nice and compact too!
Quote:

Quote:

One of my favorite eyepieces for planetary viewing is my 8-element 5-8mm Speers Waler variable focal length eyepiece with a whopping 78 degree apparent field of view.



And nice and compact too!
Not being an eyepiece "collector" I don't covet a lot of eyepieces. However, the SW 5-8 variable is one I would love to try! These are hard to come by, and I have never even seen one. Enjoy it!




Its a very good planetary performer and a very great all round EP:




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dpwoos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Mike W]
      #5613598 - 01/09/13 12:01 PM

For sure it is not for every scope! In my case, my 10" is fairly massive which, btw, is exactly how I like it. I do a lot of public observing and so a bit of mass is really helpful in allowing folks to observe/focus without the scope moving. So, it can handle massive/long eyepieces, and I can swap them without worrying too much about losing the target. Maybe when I am old I will appreciate lightweight more, but not so much now.

Edited by dpwoos (01/09/13 12:03 PM)


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BillP
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: t.r.]
      #5613772 - 01/09/13 01:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Moments like these makes one understand just how much we are limited by the atmosphere.



Along with Bill and Don, I have a "never forget it observation" illustrating well the planetary eyepiece debate...South Korea, fall of 1995, Seoul is famous for its smog, meaning stable seeing. On one particular night, I had the 4 inch Genesis loaded up with the TV 2.5x barlow and Nagler 4.8mm eyepiece producing 260x! I could have used more! The view I had of Jupiter and Ganymede transiting the face was a revelation! Throwing all the rules out the window about magnification per inch, exit pupil and number of elements in the optical train, I just sat back and enjoyed the most stable, clean view of Jove while seeing color, minute detail and even suspected albedo on Ganymede! It looked like a marble in 3-D transiting. Yep...I've said it before, location, location, location = seeing conditions that deliver those finer planetary details...the eyepiece is the smaller factor in the equation.




Or perhaps, for the three of us, we were just viewing from...the Twilight Zone!



Edited by BillP (01/09/13 02:02 PM)


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: tag1260]
      #5613807 - 01/09/13 02:17 PM

Quote:

What IS a Planetary eyepiece?




An eyepiece used for observing planetaries?

There's the Ring, Dumbbell, Helix, Little Dumbbell, Eskimo (Clown for the politically correct), etc.

What's most confusing is Saturn, which is a planetary and a planet.


Mike


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punk35
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: BillP]
      #5613931 - 01/09/13 03:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Moments like these makes one understand just how much we are limited by the atmosphere.



Along with Bill and Don, I have a "never forget it observation" illustrating well the planetary eyepiece debate...South Korea, fall of 1995, Seoul is famous for its smog, meaning stable seeing. On one particular night, I had the 4 inch Genesis loaded up with the TV 2.5x barlow and Nagler 4.8mm eyepiece producing 260x! I could have used more! The view I had of Jupiter and Ganymede transiting the face was a revelation! Throwing all the rules out the window about magnification per inch, exit pupil and number of elements in the optical train, I just sat back and enjoyed the most stable, clean view of Jove while seeing color, minute detail and even suspected albedo on Ganymede! It looked like a marble in 3-D transiting. Yep...I've said it before, location, location, location = seeing conditions that deliver those finer planetary details...the eyepiece is the smaller factor in the equation.




Or perhaps, for the three of us, we were just viewing from...the Twilight Zone!







It's cause your collimation looked like that


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MRNUTTY
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: punk35]
      #5614457 - 01/09/13 08:23 PM

Thought that was time tunnel for a minute! Loved those old shows...

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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: MRNUTTY]
      #5614475 - 01/09/13 08:40 PM

Yeah, some of them were good. But have you seen reruns of "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" lately? Irwin Allen produced some real gems. Poor Richard Basehart. And he was so good in "La Strada."


Mike


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Rick Woods
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5614735 - 01/09/13 11:59 PM

His preferred career as a planetary eyepiece didn't pan out...

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gnowellsct
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5615869 - 01/10/13 04:48 PM

well, ya know, there are eyepieces out there which really don't make the grade as planetary eyepieces. The worst are the ones with a lot of ghosting so that you get these skittering planets going all over the place. There are also some wide field eyepieces which just don't cotton to a barlow. An eyepiece that ghosts with a bright image might not ghost on wide star fields that are less intense. An eyepiece that doesn't barlow well might nonetheless be a reasonable wide field.

There is, on the other side, eyepieces which are generally worthless for anything EXCEPT planet viewing because they have too small a field of view. The ZAO II 4 and 6mms come to mind, as well as the super monos.


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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #5616083 - 01/10/13 07:14 PM

But now, we have the waterproof ES eyepieces which would be perfectly compatible for use at the Bottom of the Sea by Richard Basehart; so all the bases are covered.

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csrlice12
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5616234 - 01/10/13 08:40 PM

"You know, in retrospect, it was right to demote Pluto into just a large Trans-Neptunian Object. Otherwise, we could end up with a list of planets over a thousand long."

Whats wrong with that, just imagine, another list to complete/badge to get!! Oh, and books to write!


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5616293 - 01/10/13 09:23 PM

Admiral Nelson would have used a pair of ES eyepieces as watertight flotation devices to jettison to the surface after the Seaview struck a sea serpent sent by aliens. In fact, I believe there was an episode very similar to that ...


Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5616301 - 01/10/13 09:27 PM

I'm glad Pluto was demoted from planethood. That means I can proudly say I've seen all the planets in our solar system and I don't have to bother hunting for that dim dwarf.


Mike


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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5616377 - 01/10/13 10:06 PM

Quote:

I'm glad Pluto was demoted from planethood. That means I can proudly say I've seen all the planets in our solar system and I don't have to bother hunting for that dim dwarf.


Mike




AMEN


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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5616396 - 01/10/13 10:22 PM

Quote:

But now, we have the waterproof ES eyepieces which would be perfectly compatible for use at the Bottom of the Sea by Richard Basehart; so all the bases are covered.



We also have the 3" 30mm ES eyepiece for the "Land of the Giants" fans...


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5616426 - 01/10/13 10:41 PM

"Land of the Giants!" Another masterpiece from the mind of Irwin Allen! It had a cast of characters very similar to "Lost in Space." There was even a wimpering self-serving coward, an ersatz Dr. Smith. At least they did have a couple attractive stewardesses on board.


Mike


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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5616489 - 01/10/13 11:27 PM

Quote:

There was even a wimpering self-serving coward, an ersatz Dr. Smith.



Fitzhugh!


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Rick Woods
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: BillP]
      #5616518 - 01/10/13 11:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm glad Pluto was demoted from planethood. That means I can proudly say I've seen all the planets in our solar system and I don't have to bother hunting for that dim dwarf.


Mike




AMEN




Yeah, that's a job best left to the real observers...
(Of course, I saw it when it was still a full sized planet; that made it easier.)


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5616739 - 01/11/13 07:01 AM

Yes, I'll leave Pluto to the real observers ... as well as quasars, x-ray sources, and high proper motion stars. Nothing to see here, folks, move on!


Mike


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csrlice12
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5616845 - 01/11/13 08:45 AM

Its there, you just can't see it.........just let it hurtle towards Earth.....THEN we'll show it some respect....

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Mike B
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5617331 - 01/11/13 02:01 PM

Quote:

and I don't have to bother hunting for that dim dwarf.



To borrow from a common joke's punchline, i s'pose Pluto might best be categorized as a "small medium at large!"


Quote:

THEN we'll show it some respect....



... or better yet, a new category title (aka "NEO's") for these small & otherwise unimposing bodies when they suddenly become imposing: the Rodney Dangerfield Objects... "RDO's"


What better way to help popularize amateur astronomy? Borrow familiarity from the entertainment culture:
"Lone Ranger" asteroids versus "Abbott & Costello" binaries & multiples
"Richard Basehart" waterproof EPs versus "Wicked-Witch" EPs (don't do so well with water)
"Gilligan" EPs like this versus "Skipper" EPs like that versus "Ginger" EPs like--->


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Sasa
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #5617386 - 01/11/13 02:42 PM

Quote:


There is, on the other side, eyepieces which are generally worthless for anything EXCEPT planet viewing because they have too small a field of view. The ZAO II 4 and 6mms come to mind, as well as the super monos.




Well, I don't have those two eyepieces but I have Pentax XO5 and XO2.5 with similar specs. And I must say that Pentax XO5 is one of my favorite and very useful DSO eyepiece in my ED100 (and I use mostly alt-az mounts, small field of view is not an issue at least for me). I would put it the other way around. The eyepieces that perform very well on Moon and planets excel also on DSO, at least this is my experience.


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Mike B
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Sasa]
      #5617399 - 01/11/13 02:51 PM

Quote:

...because they have too small a field of view.



Yes, this might be somewhat of a subjective evaluation of an EP's usefulness... depending on the actual magnification attained in a given scope, whether a driven mount is used, and/or how smooth one's mount's motions are for hand-tracking, the DSO's position on the sky (higher lat = less net movement)... and, of course, simply personal preferences.

Now there ARE some DSOs that benefit from both wide-field viewing *AND* magnification, so here a 30* AFoV EP might not be as ideal. Not so much the case with planets.

Quote:

The eyepieces that perform very well on Moon and planets excel also on DSO, at least this is my experience.



Mine too. I suspect the "planetary" classification can be a bit arbitrary of a distinction... depending on where, how, & WHY it's being applied.


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5617410 - 01/11/13 02:57 PM

Quote:

Its there, you just can't see it.........just let it hurtle towards Earth.....THEN we'll show it some respect....




Jupiter would eat Pluto for breakfast.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Sasa]
      #5617417 - 01/11/13 03:01 PM

Quote:

Well, I don't have those two eyepieces but I have Pentax XO5 and XO2.5 with similar specs. And I must say that Pentax XO5 is one of my favorite and very useful DSO eyepiece in my ED100 (and I use mostly alt-az mounts, small field of view is not an issue at least for me). I would put it the other way around. The eyepieces that perform very well on Moon and planets excel also on DSO, at least this is my experience.




Recently my XO 5.1 and 2.5 gave me very nice views of the Pup star through my 10" f/4.8 Dob.

Mike


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SteveTheSwede
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5618503 - 01/12/13 06:26 AM

Quote:

Yeah, they made a mistake with that classification.

Only the old guys like us would have been disturbed by calling Sedna, Varuna, Haumea, Quaoar, MakeMake, Eris, Orcus, Ixion, and Pluto the "Ice Planets". Of course, that list is now over 1200 objects long (and growing) and it's not known how many of them are large enough to be gravitationally compressed into a "roundish shape". I note that recently they've divided the group into Plutinos, Cubewanos, and a 3rd category not fitting the orbital standards of the first groups.

Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune could have been the "Gas Planets".

And Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, and Ceres the "Rocky Planets"

You know, in retrospect, it was right to demote Pluto into just a large Trans-Neptunian Object. Otherwise, we could end up with a list of planets over a thousand long.




Sorry to split hairs, but nobody demoted Pluto into a "large Trans-Neptunian Object". It's a Dwarf Planet and the location (trans-Neptune or otherwise) has nothing to do with it.

Steve


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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5618640 - 01/12/13 09:13 AM

Little Person Planet!

Mike


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Starman1
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5618800 - 01/12/13 10:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, they made a mistake with that classification.

Only the old guys like us would have been disturbed by calling Sedna, Varuna, Haumea, Quaoar, MakeMake, Eris, Orcus, Ixion, and Pluto the "Ice Planets". Of course, that list is now over 1200 objects long (and growing) and it's not known how many of them are large enough to be gravitationally compressed into a "roundish shape". I note that recently they've divided the group into Plutinos, Cubewanos, and a 3rd category not fitting the orbital standards of the first groups.

Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune could have been the "Gas Planets".

And Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, and Ceres the "Rocky Planets"

You know, in retrospect, it was right to demote Pluto into just a large Trans-Neptunian Object. Otherwise, we could end up with a list of planets over a thousand long.




Sorry to split hairs, but nobody demoted Pluto into a "large Trans-Neptunian Object". It's a Dwarf Planet and the location (trans-Neptune or otherwise) has nothing to do with it.

Steve



Well, yes, it's a dwarf planet, but the classification goes a little deeper.
Currently, it's classified as a Plutino, which is a class of Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs) with an orbit in resonance with Neptune's.
The other types of TNOs are Cubewanos (low eccentricity Kuiper Belts Objects, or KBOs) that are NOT in resonance with Neptune.
The above 2 classes are the Classical Kuiper Belt Objects, or KBOs.
Beyond that lie Scattered Disc Objects (SDOs) and Oort Cloud Objects (OCOs), some in resonant orbits, most not.

All Trans-Neptunian dwarf planets are referred to as Plutoids.

So, Pluto's designation would be:
Dwarf Planet (not location dependent)>>
TNO(its location)>>
Plutoid (describing its size)>>
KBO(where it is among TNOs)>>
Plutino(the nature of its orbit)

Because it qualifies for Dwarf planet status, it is a "Large Trans-Neptunian Object".


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SteveTheSwede
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5618874 - 01/12/13 11:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, they made a mistake with that classification.

Only the old guys like us would have been disturbed by calling Sedna, Varuna, Haumea, Quaoar, MakeMake, Eris, Orcus, Ixion, and Pluto the "Ice Planets". Of course, that list is now over 1200 objects long (and growing) and it's not known how many of them are large enough to be gravitationally compressed into a "roundish shape". I note that recently they've divided the group into Plutinos, Cubewanos, and a 3rd category not fitting the orbital standards of the first groups.

Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune could have been the "Gas Planets".

And Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, and Ceres the "Rocky Planets"

You know, in retrospect, it was right to demote Pluto into just a large Trans-Neptunian Object. Otherwise, we could end up with a list of planets over a thousand long.




Sorry to split hairs, but nobody demoted Pluto into a "large Trans-Neptunian Object". It's a Dwarf Planet and the location (trans-Neptune or otherwise) has nothing to do with it.

Steve



Well, yes, it's a dwarf planet, but the classification goes a little deeper.
Currently, it's classified as a Plutino, which is a class of Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs) with an orbit in resonance with Neptune's.
The other types of TNOs are Cubewanos (low eccentricity Kuiper Belts Objects, or KBOs) that are NOT in resonance with Neptune.
The above 2 classes are the Classical Kuiper Belt Objects, or KBOs.
Beyond that lie Scattered Disc Objects (SDOs) and Oort Cloud Objects (OCOs), some in resonant orbits, most not.

All Trans-Neptunian dwarf planets are referred to as Plutoids.

So, Pluto's designation would be:
Dwarf Planet (not location dependent)>>
TNO(its location)>>
Plutoid (describing its size)>>
KBO(where it is among TNOs)>>
Plutino(the nature of its orbit)

Because it qualifies for Dwarf planet status, it is a "Large Trans-Neptunian Object".




Well. Yes, Pluto is the prototype for the sub-category Trans-Neptunian Objects (within the Dwarf Planet definition) but I read your post to be in the context of Pluto "losing" its planetary status (which it didn't really do since there was NO official definition of "planet" prior to the 2006 IAU decision). Since the "reclassification" (or really classification) of Pluto was to Dwarf Planet, I didn't really see that the sub-category Trans-Neptunian Objects was relevant to the assumed previous planetary status of Pluto.
In other words, Pluto didn't go from being a "planet" to being a "Trans-Neptunian Object". It went from undefined but popularly referred to as planet to Dwarf Planet.
All this unless I have missed some major redefinitions by the IAU lately.


Steve


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Starman1
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: SteveTheSwede]
      #5618927 - 01/12/13 11:58 AM

Well, in the popular media, Pluto definitely lost its planetary status, and the word "to pluto" and "plutoed" became ensconced in the popular language meaning to demote or devalue a person or object.
There may not have been an "official" definition of planet prior to the IAU 2006 resolution, but everyone knows Pluto went from being considered a planet to not being considered a planet.

During that discussion at the IAU, everyone referred to Pluto as an example of a large TNO, perhaps the largest TNO. But yes, it is considered and classified as a Dwarf Planets, not the 3rd Category, "Solar System Small-Sized Body". [They used the words "Small Solar System Body" without realizing that that could mean the Solar System was small ]


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SteveTheSwede
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5618940 - 01/12/13 12:04 PM

Quote:

Well, in the popular media, Pluto definitely lost its planetary status, and the word "to pluto" and "plutoed" became ensconced in the popular language meaning to demote or devalue a person or object.
There may not have been an "official" definition of planet prior to the IAU 2006 resolution, but everyone knows Pluto went from being considered a planet to not being considered a planet.

During that discussion at the IAU, everyone referred to Pluto as an example of a large TNO, perhaps the largest TNO. But yes, it is considered and classified as a Dwarf Planets, not the 3rd Category, "Solar System Small-Sized Body". [They used the words "Small Solar System Body" without realizing that that could mean the Solar System was small ]




Agreed, in popular media that is how it was, and certainly how it was marketed (though of course it wasn't about Pluto at all it was about exoplanets and Pluto simply collateral damage, but that makes for less exiting headlines and is way off topic anyway).
Let's agree to agree then.


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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5619196 - 01/12/13 02:38 PM

Quote:

Well, in the popular media, Pluto definitely lost its planetary status, ...




A rose by any other name is still a rose. If there were a race or people on Jupiter, I'm sure their scientists would not classify Earth as a planet either...just too small...and ready for this made of rock At any rate...the Planet Pluto will remain just that for me...a Planet. Definitions come and go with the whims of time and people...Pluto remains


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Mike B
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: BillP]
      #5619297 - 01/12/13 03:34 PM

Quote:

Definitions come and go with the whims of time and people...Pluto remains



Very true!

But it STILL don't matter WHAT eyepiece ya use to LOOK at it... if you're lucky, it'll be a faint glint of light!

Or perhaps its visibility would be enhanced using a 0.965" EP?... a "dwarf EP"?


But i digress...


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faackanders2
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5619561 - 01/12/13 06:06 PM

Quote:

Heck, we don't even know what a Planet is, anymore.

I had a great planetary eyepiece, but I made the mistake of looking at Pluto with it.

Now it's just a "minor eyepiece"....




Good one!


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joe nastasi
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5624794 - 01/15/13 04:53 PM

Huh, figures. The only planet discovered by an American and they take it away from us. Sad.

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DaveJ
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: joe nastasi]
      #5624839 - 01/15/13 05:26 PM

Quote:

Huh, figures. The only planet discovered by an American and they take it away from us. Sad.




Except it wasn't a planet - it was a trans-Neptunian object or Kuiper belt object, if you prefer. This same exact situation occurred when the first asteroid was discovered. It was called a planet since there was absolutely no way of knowing there were hundreds of thousands of them out there. Then the second asteroid was discovered. It was called a planet. Then the third and fourth and fifth and sixth and... they were all given the designation "planet" and before anyone knew it, there were dozens of them - then hundreds. All of them were rightfully demoted to the new designation "asteroid" to a disgruntled public that complained about the demotions. Same exact situation we have now with the demotion of Pluto. Hey, I didn't make this up!


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csrlice12
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5625127 - 01/15/13 08:25 PM

It's ok, one day, they'll all rise up....their numbers are countless.....then you'll see.....

....but you'll need a really good scope.


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Rick Woods
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5625227 - 01/15/13 09:27 PM

That's right! The revolution (and the rotation) is coming!
Give me libration or give me depth!


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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5625377 - 01/15/13 10:49 PM

Quote:

It's ok, one day, they'll all rise up....their numbers are countless.....then you'll see.....




Well, it's been carefully analyzed and estimated that all the asteroids combined wouldn't be as large as our moon. Hard to believe, but true. So, let 'em rise up! By the way, do you know that John, Paul, George and Ringo - as well as Mr. Rodgers, have asteroids named after them?


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csrlice12
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5625903 - 01/16/13 10:07 AM

Ok, who's gonna come out with a trans-Neptunian series eyepiece set??????

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Sarkikos
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5625924 - 01/16/13 10:20 AM

In 0.965" format, of course. Tiny planets, tiny eyepieces.

Mike


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Mike B
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5628385 - 01/17/13 04:06 PM

Quote:

By the way, do you know that John, Paul, George and Ringo - as well as Mr. Rodgers, have asteroids named after them?



Any particular neighborhood?... or randomly scattered?


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DaveJ
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: Mike B]
      #5628396 - 01/17/13 04:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

By the way, do you know that John, Paul, George and Ringo - as well as Mr. Rodgers, have asteroids named after them?



Any particular neighborhood?... or randomly scattered?




It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood,
A beautiful day for a neighbor,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?


You mean that neighborhood?

Seriously, Mr. Rogers was quite an amazing gentleman. Remember his theme song?

Edited by DaveJ (01/17/13 04:48 PM)


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Scott in NCAdministrator
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Re: What IS a Planetary eyepiece? new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5628501 - 01/17/13 05:21 PM

Since the last on-topic post on this thread was over a week ago, and we've veered way off into OTO territory, it's time to bring this thread to a close.


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