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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5641246 - 01/24/13 06:49 PM

Leonard, I think if proof hit you right between the eyes...you would still deny its existence.

If you haven't toured the Questar website, take a look under their "Surveillance" link on the intro banner. Some interesting statements are made about each type of surveillance scope. These scopes and spotters use Brandons. Military connection is obvious. I could show you a picture of me looking through one in my combat gear...but then I'd have to kill ya and I wouldn't want to do that!

http://www.questarcorporation.com/questar.htm



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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5641247 - 01/24/13 06:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

-> Yes, I want to blacken the lens edges...but also want to blacken the interior of the spacer as that is gloss black Before I do that though am thinking of trying to borrow another 8mm from someone (yellow coatings) so I can do a side-by-side observation with them before and after to see if any obvious improvements occur to the views.





I wonder why they're not already blackened?



Same reason they're not multi-coated. No reason to add a penny of cost to the product if the sales are high and the reputation is excellent.


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 10/19/07

Loc: West Virginia
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: George N]
      #5641249 - 01/24/13 06:50 PM

Hello George ,

>>> The military uses a modified 7-inch Questar Mak as the spotting scope for sniper teams. They donít use the screw-in Brandonís, but rather the 1.25-inch, because sniper teams donít have the time to fool around screwing in stuff. The troops keep losing them Ė which keeps Don busy making them. The military versions donít have the brand names on them. <<<<<

Thanks George , I accept that this would be the combat use for a Brandon . The FOV would be on the smaller side but I guess the people in the know feel its just fine .
Do you know of a web site that shows it in action ???


Thanks Leonard


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5641262 - 01/24/13 07:01 PM

Quote:

I wonder why they're not already blackened?




I asked Don this exact same question a few weeks ago and his reply:

Quote:

Reason for not edge blacking is simply under close testing on lunar, planetary & deep sky observing with different hi-quality scopes -- couldn't tell any difference whatsoever between blacking or not. If any difference had ever been detected, believe me all Brandons would have been edge-blackened from the get-go.




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Moonglum
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/01/08

Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5641266 - 01/24/13 07:06 PM

Thanks for the answers Bill. Sounds like taking them apart and re assembly will be a breeze. And I'm looking forward to your mini-shootout.

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t.r.
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5641298 - 01/24/13 07:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I wonder why they're not already blackened?




I asked Don this exact same question a few weeks ago and his reply:

Quote:

Reason for not edge blacking is simply under close testing on lunar, planetary & deep sky observing with different hi-quality scopes -- couldn't tell any difference whatsoever between blacking or not. If any difference had ever been detected, believe me all Brandons would have been edge-blackened from the get-go.







Now that would be something! Have two like focal length Brandons, blacken the edges of one and do a comparison in a high quality refractor! That would put innuendo to rest.


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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5641324 - 01/24/13 07:37 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

Quote:

Lets see , the Delos has 20mm of ER . The 24mm Brandon has 8mm of useable ER . Jeff you must have special eyes.




My 24mm Brandon has 20mm usable ER.

The "modern style" Brandon can be made into a similar flat top by simply unscrewing the metal retainer that holds the rubber eyecup. Even with the eyecup in place though I believe the usable eye relief of the 24mm exceeds 8mm.


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BillP
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Moonglum]
      #5641510 - 01/24/13 09:15 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the answers Bill. Sounds like taking them apart and re assembly will be a breeze. And I'm looking forward to your mini-shootout.




Really was one of the very simplest eyepieces to take apart I have done. No little retaining rings to futz with or anything like that. And very easy to "properly" reassemble.


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BillP
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: t.r.]
      #5641527 - 01/24/13 09:23 PM

Quote:

Now that would be something! Have two like focal length Brandons, blacken the edges of one and do a comparison in a high quality refractor! That would put innuendo to rest.




Sure would! I have blackened eyepieces before and did not notice ant difference. However that was not a side by side compare but a before and after. Now there is a technical report on Edmund site where they used measuring equipment and their tests confirmed that blackening does reduce scatter from the sidewalls of the glass and this reduction improves overall contrast. So there we have a lab technical report by engineers. So would love to do this compare to see for myself though


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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5641546 - 01/24/13 09:33 PM

Quote:


>>>> Eye relief of course varies by focal length. I find the 24 to be comparable to the Delos. <<<<<

Lets see , the Delos has 20mm of ER . The 24mm Brandon has 8mm of useable ER . Jeff you must have special eyes .




Well I would like to think my eyes are special. My employer seems to think so but it still makes me nervous to go in for my flight physical every 6 months

And while it is true I have never taken a ruler to my Brandon (or my Delos) more likely I would respectfully suggest that your information source is badly in error.

Brandon eye relief goes about 80% of focal length (just like Plossls and Orthos). I own a complete set plus the 48, and the 80% figure seems to hold up compared to my various Tele Vues of published (and presumably "known") eye relief.


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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5641557 - 01/24/13 09:37 PM

Quote:


I wonder why they're not already blackened?




Yes, I wonder too. But, space right up to the edge of Jupiter is black in my Brandons, so I won't lose sleep over it.

Come to think of it, neither are the lens edges on my AP refractor.


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

Loc: West Virginia
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: t.r.]
      #5641771 - 01/25/13 12:08 AM

Hello tr ,

Thanks for posting this information . I see there used for Questar spotting scopes .

Leonard


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 10/19/07

Loc: West Virginia
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5641796 - 01/25/13 12:28 AM

Hello ,

Johnnyha , Thank you , I have never seen this style before . I can see that one would get much more ER with this set-up . The eyepieces in the pic you posted , are they the standard style as sold by astronomics or a special order from Don ????


Thanks for this input , just what I needed .
Leonard


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

Loc: West Virginia
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5641805 - 01/25/13 12:40 AM

Hi Jeff ,

I hope your sight passes the test at 80 !

Johnnyha posted the information I have never seen before , the pics of his Brandon eyepieces with a new style of body . I can see that these eyepieces would give the user all the ER possible in this design eyepiece .

The information from the astronomics Brandon page gives 8mm ER for the 24mm eyepiece . This was questioned some time ago and the people at astronomics stated they tested the ER on all the eyepieces they sell and the useable ER for that eyepiece was indeed 8mm . I had no idea you could get the lens set in that most excellent barrel casing Johnnyha posted .

Case closed , Leonard


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Jim Romanski
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: t.r.]
      #5642166 - 01/25/13 09:23 AM

Quote:

Now that would be something! Have two like focal length Brandons, blacken the edges of one and do a comparison in a high quality refractor! That would put innuendo to rest.



Maybe and maybe not. One person's test is just that. There may be different results with different brands of eyepieces too.

In any case, I would expect any difference to subtle.


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BillP
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5642210 - 01/25/13 09:43 AM

Quote:

In any case, I would expect any difference to subtle.




My expectation would be this also. Any scatter that might occur off the lens sides I would imagine cause just a general overall brightening, which could be quite small and probably only at the threshold of vision when viewing brighter objects. So the end result probably just a very very slight loss in contrast only impacting the most low contrast areas.

While this would be the expectation...one never knows and a surprise could pop up for some narrow observing circumstance. Whatever...will be a fun experiment to do if I can get my hands on another newer 8mm Brandon.


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Paul G
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5642658 - 01/25/13 02:02 PM

Unless the eyepiece scatters a lot of light I would expect blackening the edges to make no difference. The ZAO's aren't blackened, either.

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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Paul G]
      #5642769 - 01/25/13 03:07 PM

Blackening edges will help with contrast plain and simple. Less scattered light. I too read the Edmumd technical report.
That along with ultra flat black surfaces inside the eyepiece will help. folcking material instead of paint in the telescope tube. These things add up. Together you WILL notice a difference.

I say blacken the lens edges with flat black paint. if they will fit in the housing with the paint. Even a black sharpie should be OK.


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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5643045 - 01/25/13 05:44 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

Quote:

Johnnyha , Thank you , I have never seen this style before . I can see that one would get much more ER with this set-up . The eyepieces in the pic you posted , are they the standard style as sold by astronomics or a special order from Don ????




Leonard - Those are black 50th Anniversary Brandons, but Don also will make anybody a flat top Brandon on request. Actually I would call them "semi-volcano", here they are next to Circle T VTs. The 50th Brandons also have the newer amber coating which is said to be superior to earlier models.


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Ed Kessler
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 05/17/06

Loc: Millersburg, PA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5648371 - 01/28/13 02:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I wonder why they're not already blackened?




Yes, I wonder too. But, space right up to the edge of Jupiter is black in my Brandons, so I won't lose sleep over it.

Come to think of it, neither are the lens edges on my AP refractor.





Same here. I've gone to viewing primarily with a Vernonscope binoviewer and Brandons and am continually impressed with their clarity and contrast.


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