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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Exposed Brandon
      #5639605 - 01/23/13 09:43 PM Attachment (92 downloads)

I finally got around to taking apart my Brandon. These are the elements of the 8mm Brandon. The scale above is .025" per line...ever 4 lines are 1/10th of an inch.

Eye lens is on the left and field lens on the right. The spacer between them is to the right of the lenses. The curvature radius of the two inward facing lenses appears the same with an approximate radius of 9.2mm.

The first surface of the eye lens on the far left is very slightly convex. The thickness of the 2nd element of the eye-doublet is approx. 1.6mm. The thickness of the 4th element or field lens is approx. 2.2mm. When the lenses are assembled the approximate distance between the centers of the two convex inward facing lenses is approximately 0.3mm.

Bottom line is that it looks to be three different lens types making the two doublets not symmetrical. The two inward facing convex lenses however appear to be identical (they only look slightly different in the pic because one is slightly leaning).


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MRNUTTY
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/22/11

Loc: Mendon, MA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5639615 - 01/23/13 09:54 PM

So is it a Plossl Bill? Or at least 'symmetrical'.

Edited by MRNUTTY (01/23/13 09:56 PM)


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Moonglum
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/01/08

Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5639621 - 01/23/13 09:56 PM

Hey! Gonna blacken the edges with a sharpie before you put them back in? Are these easy to take apart and put back together? (I want to blacken mine...) I ordered mine with no fieldstops because I'm alt/az at F20. I'm gonna try cutting my own fieldstops out of a soft black plastic waste-basket. Getting the holes perfectly centre for merging with binos will be the tricky part.

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Rick Woods
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: MRNUTTY]
      #5639819 - 01/24/13 12:03 AM

Quote:

So is it a Plossl Bill? Or at least 'symmetrical'.




It's a Brandon.


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rogerandgarf
sage
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Reged: 06/01/05

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5639894 - 01/24/13 01:11 AM

So what tool did you choose to remove the element housing? Is the housing aluminum?

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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

Loc: West Virginia
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5639898 - 01/24/13 01:16 AM

Hello ,

Thanks for posting Bill .

I wonder if the 24mm and the 48mm are the same design or a slight design modification ?
I only ask this because these two are the ones that are different from the rest is some way , anyone know for sure ???????????

Leonard


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MRNUTTY
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/22/11

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5640150 - 01/24/13 08:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

So is it a Plossl Bill? Or at least 'symmetrical'.




It's a Brandon.




:-) doh! I was trying to compare it to other lens configurations. Unfortunately, I elected the lazy way out and chose Wikipedia for my info. Today, I used a better source ( Lens configurations ) and withdraw that question. It is very close.

Edited by MRNUTTY (01/24/13 08:12 AM)


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Jeff Morgan
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5640232 - 01/24/13 09:14 AM

Quote:

Hello ,

Thanks for posting Bill .

I wonder if the 24mm and the 48mm are the same design or a slight design modification ?
I only ask this because these two are the ones that are different from the rest is some way , anyone know for sure ???????????

Leonard





A few years back quite a few people were asking about a 36 mm focal length in a 2" barrel. In a telephone conversation with Don Yier regarding my 48 mm on order he claimed the design was scaled, and he could produce them in any desired focal length.

One other item to note is that the glass types vary - possibly three or four types. One of the reasons for the infrequent offerings of the 48 mm was limited runs from Schott in sizes large enough for the 3rd element. Whether that was the third from the right or left I don't know, and Don doesn't let many details go.

Glass availability may explain why the rumored 36 Brandon never appeared. That and Vernonscope is quite busy with military orders.

Edited by Jeff Morgan (01/24/13 09:18 AM)


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BillP
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5640288 - 01/24/13 09:50 AM

All,

-> They are definitely not symmetrical as each doublet is unique having different lens thickness and outward facing curves.

-> Is it a Plossl? I would say no...although I've never really seen an actual patent or technical diagram of a "true" asymmetrical Plossl. However, popular wisdom on a true Plossl design is that the diameters of each doublet are different, which as can be seen on these that they are not. So not a Plossl and not a Symmetrical.

-> The way it comes apart is that the tube structure from underneath actually unscrews. So you grip that and unscrew while holding the eyepiece upright. Then slowly remove it and the lenses simply sit in that with the eye lens doublet protruding.

-> As far as tools...I'm sure Don has a special one, but I just got some needle nose pliers, then wrapped the tips with electrical tape, then grabbed the edge of that tube housing to unscrew. Did not take much of any force, and once loose just did the rest by hand.

-> Yes, I want to blacken the lens edges...but also want to blacken the interior of the spacer as that is gloss black Before I do that though am thinking of trying to borrow another 8mm from someone (yellow coatings) so I can do a side-by-side observation with them before and after to see if any obviouse improvements occur to the views.

-> While similar in some respects to a 1915 Konig design, it is still different so yes, it is a Brandon


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5640849 - 01/24/13 02:40 PM

Hello ,

So we know they are scaled up or down and it seems the glass availability would be the limiting factor .
Thanks Jeff .

From what BillP has shown here Rick Wood has been correct ,a Brandon is a Brandon and only a Brandon !!!

I would still like to know just what this narrow FOV eyepiece , with its restricted eye relief is used for in the military. It must be some kind of non-critical piece of equipment as far as combat goes as its hard to beleave in the 21st such an antiquated design would be used on the field of battle .
It would be interesting to read something by someone who in real time used this eyepiece in the military and just what they did with it , and show pic or web sites where anyone could go and see for themself.
Aside from that there is only speculation as to its use .


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csrlice12
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5640888 - 01/24/13 03:03 PM

Erfles were used for bomb sights....why not a Brandon?

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jrbarnett
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5640901 - 01/24/13 03:16 PM

I suspect they go in the surveillance scopes the military buys from Questar.

- Jim


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t.r.
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5640928 - 01/24/13 03:30 PM

Quote:

I would still like to know just what this narrow FOV eyepiece , with its restricted eye relief is used for in the military. It must be some kind of non-critical piece of equipment as far as combat goes as its hard to beleave in the 21st such an antiquated design would be used on the field of battle .
It would be interesting to read something by someone who in real time used this eyepiece in the military and just what they did with it , and show pic or web sites where anyone could go and see for themself.
Aside from that there is only speculation as to its use .




Personally, I simply believe that the Questar Brandons are used in conjunction with the Questar scopes as a system for military/surveillance purpose. I believe I have seen these in the field (targeting ranges) in use. The other military connection that could be misconstrued is that the actual manufacturer of the lens sets, also has military contracts (fact) and that when they have a run of optics for them, Vernonscope is put on hold, until they are free to run the Brandon lenses again. However, I as well as others have heard Don state that, he (Vernonscope) was providing Brandons for military orders and when that occurs, we amatures are delayed. Actually, there is little left to speculate about.


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Jeff Morgan
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5640937 - 01/24/13 03:38 PM

Quote:

Hello ,

So we know they are scaled up or down and it seems the glass availability would be the limiting factor .
Thanks Jeff .

From what BillP has shown here Rick Wood has been correct ,a Brandon is a Brandon and only a Brandon !!!

I would still like to know just what this narrow FOV eyepiece , with its restricted eye relief is used for in the military. It must be some kind of non-critical piece of equipment as far as combat goes as its hard to beleave in the 21st such an antiquated design would be used on the field of battle .
It would be interesting to read something by someone who in real time used this eyepiece in the military and just what they did with it , and show pic or web sites where anyone could go and see for themself.
Aside from that there is only speculation as to its use .





Equating age of a design to usefulness or performance is a big mistake. Many popular military designs are old but still well-suited to the job. For example:

- M16 rifle, early, 50+ years;
- B52 bomber, 60+ years; and
- 1911 pistol, 100+ years.

As you mentioned, we don't know what the military does with them. It could be something very specialized and low volume - it doesn't take much to keep what is essentially a one-man operation busy.

Eye relief of course varies by focal length. I find the 24 to be comparable to the Delos. The 16 should be fine for wide variety of uses. The 12 and shorter begin getting tight and take some time to get used to.

Closer to the point for astronomers the Ortho, Plossl, and Newtonian designs are also "antiquated" but perform superbly.


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

Loc: West Virginia
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5641138 - 01/24/13 05:46 PM

Hi Jim ,


I think your correct , if its true the military is using Questars for surveilance and as range spotting scopes then the Brandons would go along as sort of a captive accessory since it uses threads instead of slip fit.

Leonard


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: t.r.]
      #5641164 - 01/24/13 05:59 PM

Hello tr ,

>>>>> I believe I have seen these in the field (targeting ranges) in use. <<<<<<<<

Now were getting somewhere , I feel you and Jim are correct in that spotting scope use is the purpose . But you have no first hand experience and cannot point me to any web site that shows the eyepiece in action .


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George N
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5641204 - 01/24/13 06:27 PM

The military uses a modified 7-inch Questar Mak as the spotting scope for sniper teams. They don’t use the screw-in Brandon’s, but rather the 1.25-inch, because sniper teams don’t have the time to fool around screwing in stuff. The troops keep losing them – which keeps Don busy making them. The military versions don’t have the brand names on them.

I’ve visited Don’s shop on a number of occasions (we’ve been friends since the mid 1980’s) and have watched him make the military eyepieces. There is a big DoD “stay out” sign on the outside of his shop. He told me “They make me put that up. Just ignore it.” The last time I was there he took me on a tour and I got to see piles of parts from old VERNONscope products, and a goodly number of antique telescopes and such, including two brass 18th Century scopes, all waiting for another of his famous auctions.

Don made me a pair of matched 16mm ‘blems’ for bino-viewing using lenses he picked out of the rig holding the military ones. He checked a few “to make sure that the focal length is exactly matched”. He provided ‘blems’ by taking a pair of barrels and putting a little scratch on each – and sold me the pair for a very low price (which he was also offering at NEAF). Actually, one of the ‘blem’ barrels has a little scratch. The white paint filling the lettering is not complete on the other.

I also note that this thread started with a picture of a disassembled Brandon. At NEAF last time Don told me that “proper assembly is as important as the actual components of an eyepiece. The only other person who can assemble these things as well as I can is my son, but he’s not interested in taking over the business. I’m still working on him, but he prefers working at his cabinet making business.”


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Ed Kessler
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Reged: 05/17/06

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5641215 - 01/24/13 06:35 PM

Thanks Bill. That was quite interesting. I'm using Brandon's with a Vernonscope binoviewer for much of my observing these days.

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Ed Kessler
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5641226 - 01/24/13 06:41 PM

Quote:

-> Yes, I want to blacken the lens edges...but also want to blacken the interior of the spacer as that is gloss black Before I do that though am thinking of trying to borrow another 8mm from someone (yellow coatings) so I can do a side-by-side observation with them before and after to see if any obviouse improvements occur to the views.





I wonder why they're not already blackened?


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5641231 - 01/24/13 06:42 PM

Hi Jeff ,


>>>> Equating age of a design to usefulness or performance is a big mistake. <<<<<

I don't think so .

- M16 rifle, early, 50+ years;
Great combat rifle , is it the last word I don't think so . Prone to dirt and grit flowing , at least it used to be .

- B52 bomber, 60+ years; and

On the slow side now and up-graded many times . The only reason its still used is bombers are somewhat out dated . It shows up on radar like a bright flash light at night .

- 1911 pistol, 100+ years.

Great pistol , may be as good and auto. as ever designed .

>>>>> It could be something very specialized and low volume <<<<<<<

I know your kidding here .


>>>> Eye relief of course varies by focal length. I find the 24 to be comparable to the Delos. <<<<<

Lets see , the Delos has 20mm of ER . The 24mm Brandon has 8mm of useable ER . Jeff you must have special eyes .

Closer to the point for astronomers the Ortho, Plossl, and Newtonian designs are also "antiquated" but perform superbly.
The Newtonian was modified from first design .
Plossl , yes the TelVue Plossl would be to me the better pick for older designs for use in the Questar spotting scope .
Its useless to get anything like real proof .

Leonard


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t.r.
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/14/08

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5641246 - 01/24/13 06:49 PM

Leonard, I think if proof hit you right between the eyes...you would still deny its existence.

If you haven't toured the Questar website, take a look under their "Surveillance" link on the intro banner. Some interesting statements are made about each type of surveillance scope. These scopes and spotters use Brandons. Military connection is obvious. I could show you a picture of me looking through one in my combat gear...but then I'd have to kill ya and I wouldn't want to do that!

http://www.questarcorporation.com/questar.htm



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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5641247 - 01/24/13 06:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

-> Yes, I want to blacken the lens edges...but also want to blacken the interior of the spacer as that is gloss black Before I do that though am thinking of trying to borrow another 8mm from someone (yellow coatings) so I can do a side-by-side observation with them before and after to see if any obvious improvements occur to the views.





I wonder why they're not already blackened?



Same reason they're not multi-coated. No reason to add a penny of cost to the product if the sales are high and the reputation is excellent.


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: George N]
      #5641249 - 01/24/13 06:50 PM

Hello George ,

>>> The military uses a modified 7-inch Questar Mak as the spotting scope for sniper teams. They don’t use the screw-in Brandon’s, but rather the 1.25-inch, because sniper teams don’t have the time to fool around screwing in stuff. The troops keep losing them – which keeps Don busy making them. The military versions don’t have the brand names on them. <<<<<

Thanks George , I accept that this would be the combat use for a Brandon . The FOV would be on the smaller side but I guess the people in the know feel its just fine .
Do you know of a web site that shows it in action ???


Thanks Leonard


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5641262 - 01/24/13 07:01 PM

Quote:

I wonder why they're not already blackened?




I asked Don this exact same question a few weeks ago and his reply:

Quote:

Reason for not edge blacking is simply under close testing on lunar, planetary & deep sky observing with different hi-quality scopes -- couldn't tell any difference whatsoever between blacking or not. If any difference had ever been detected, believe me all Brandons would have been edge-blackened from the get-go.




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Moonglum
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/01/08

Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5641266 - 01/24/13 07:06 PM

Thanks for the answers Bill. Sounds like taking them apart and re assembly will be a breeze. And I'm looking forward to your mini-shootout.

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t.r.
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5641298 - 01/24/13 07:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I wonder why they're not already blackened?




I asked Don this exact same question a few weeks ago and his reply:

Quote:

Reason for not edge blacking is simply under close testing on lunar, planetary & deep sky observing with different hi-quality scopes -- couldn't tell any difference whatsoever between blacking or not. If any difference had ever been detected, believe me all Brandons would have been edge-blackened from the get-go.







Now that would be something! Have two like focal length Brandons, blacken the edges of one and do a comparison in a high quality refractor! That would put innuendo to rest.


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johnnyha
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5641324 - 01/24/13 07:37 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

Quote:

Lets see , the Delos has 20mm of ER . The 24mm Brandon has 8mm of useable ER . Jeff you must have special eyes.




My 24mm Brandon has 20mm usable ER.

The "modern style" Brandon can be made into a similar flat top by simply unscrewing the metal retainer that holds the rubber eyecup. Even with the eyecup in place though I believe the usable eye relief of the 24mm exceeds 8mm.


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BillP
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Moonglum]
      #5641510 - 01/24/13 09:15 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the answers Bill. Sounds like taking them apart and re assembly will be a breeze. And I'm looking forward to your mini-shootout.




Really was one of the very simplest eyepieces to take apart I have done. No little retaining rings to futz with or anything like that. And very easy to "properly" reassemble.


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BillP
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: t.r.]
      #5641527 - 01/24/13 09:23 PM

Quote:

Now that would be something! Have two like focal length Brandons, blacken the edges of one and do a comparison in a high quality refractor! That would put innuendo to rest.




Sure would! I have blackened eyepieces before and did not notice ant difference. However that was not a side by side compare but a before and after. Now there is a technical report on Edmund site where they used measuring equipment and their tests confirmed that blackening does reduce scatter from the sidewalls of the glass and this reduction improves overall contrast. So there we have a lab technical report by engineers. So would love to do this compare to see for myself though


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Jeff Morgan
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5641546 - 01/24/13 09:33 PM

Quote:


>>>> Eye relief of course varies by focal length. I find the 24 to be comparable to the Delos. <<<<<

Lets see , the Delos has 20mm of ER . The 24mm Brandon has 8mm of useable ER . Jeff you must have special eyes .




Well I would like to think my eyes are special. My employer seems to think so but it still makes me nervous to go in for my flight physical every 6 months

And while it is true I have never taken a ruler to my Brandon (or my Delos) more likely I would respectfully suggest that your information source is badly in error.

Brandon eye relief goes about 80% of focal length (just like Plossls and Orthos). I own a complete set plus the 48, and the 80% figure seems to hold up compared to my various Tele Vues of published (and presumably "known") eye relief.


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Jeff Morgan
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5641557 - 01/24/13 09:37 PM

Quote:


I wonder why they're not already blackened?




Yes, I wonder too. But, space right up to the edge of Jupiter is black in my Brandons, so I won't lose sleep over it.

Come to think of it, neither are the lens edges on my AP refractor.


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: t.r.]
      #5641771 - 01/25/13 12:08 AM

Hello tr ,

Thanks for posting this information . I see there used for Questar spotting scopes .

Leonard


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5641796 - 01/25/13 12:28 AM

Hello ,

Johnnyha , Thank you , I have never seen this style before . I can see that one would get much more ER with this set-up . The eyepieces in the pic you posted , are they the standard style as sold by astronomics or a special order from Don ????


Thanks for this input , just what I needed .
Leonard


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/19/07

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5641805 - 01/25/13 12:40 AM

Hi Jeff ,

I hope your sight passes the test at 80 !

Johnnyha posted the information I have never seen before , the pics of his Brandon eyepieces with a new style of body . I can see that these eyepieces would give the user all the ER possible in this design eyepiece .

The information from the astronomics Brandon page gives 8mm ER for the 24mm eyepiece . This was questioned some time ago and the people at astronomics stated they tested the ER on all the eyepieces they sell and the useable ER for that eyepiece was indeed 8mm . I had no idea you could get the lens set in that most excellent barrel casing Johnnyha posted .

Case closed , Leonard


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Jim Romanski
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/02/05

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: t.r.]
      #5642166 - 01/25/13 09:23 AM

Quote:

Now that would be something! Have two like focal length Brandons, blacken the edges of one and do a comparison in a high quality refractor! That would put innuendo to rest.



Maybe and maybe not. One person's test is just that. There may be different results with different brands of eyepieces too.

In any case, I would expect any difference to subtle.


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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5642210 - 01/25/13 09:43 AM

Quote:

In any case, I would expect any difference to subtle.




My expectation would be this also. Any scatter that might occur off the lens sides I would imagine cause just a general overall brightening, which could be quite small and probably only at the threshold of vision when viewing brighter objects. So the end result probably just a very very slight loss in contrast only impacting the most low contrast areas.

While this would be the expectation...one never knows and a surprise could pop up for some narrow observing circumstance. Whatever...will be a fun experiment to do if I can get my hands on another newer 8mm Brandon.


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Paul G
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5642658 - 01/25/13 02:02 PM

Unless the eyepiece scatters a lot of light I would expect blackening the edges to make no difference. The ZAO's aren't blackened, either.

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bremms
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Paul G]
      #5642769 - 01/25/13 03:07 PM

Blackening edges will help with contrast plain and simple. Less scattered light. I too read the Edmumd technical report.
That along with ultra flat black surfaces inside the eyepiece will help. folcking material instead of paint in the telescope tube. These things add up. Together you WILL notice a difference.

I say blacken the lens edges with flat black paint. if they will fit in the housing with the paint. Even a black sharpie should be OK.


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johnnyha
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5643045 - 01/25/13 05:44 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

Quote:

Johnnyha , Thank you , I have never seen this style before . I can see that one would get much more ER with this set-up . The eyepieces in the pic you posted , are they the standard style as sold by astronomics or a special order from Don ????




Leonard - Those are black 50th Anniversary Brandons, but Don also will make anybody a flat top Brandon on request. Actually I would call them "semi-volcano", here they are next to Circle T VTs. The 50th Brandons also have the newer amber coating which is said to be superior to earlier models.


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Ed Kessler
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5648371 - 01/28/13 02:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I wonder why they're not already blackened?




Yes, I wonder too. But, space right up to the edge of Jupiter is black in my Brandons, so I won't lose sleep over it.

Come to think of it, neither are the lens edges on my AP refractor.





Same here. I've gone to viewing primarily with a Vernonscope binoviewer and Brandons and am continually impressed with their clarity and contrast.


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Jaimo!
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5648780 - 01/28/13 05:30 PM

Thanks Bill, I always love to see the insides of eyepieces!

Jaimo!


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LDb
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5651482 - 01/30/13 12:47 AM

Quote:

......

From what BillP has shown here Rick Wood has been correct ,a Brandon is a Brandon and only a Brandon !!! .......






Just another 2-cents from this Acolyte of St. Chester .....
I couldn't agree more. The Brandon is not an antiquated, quaint, design from yesteryear .... it's a superb optical component. I use mine Bino'd and have for decades.

The US Military does indeed use these eyepieces in various "spotting" applications, and other "field-instrumentation". I know this from personal experience as well and yes, many are just lost, and also get damaged when rubbing sand and grit from the eye-lens .... use your imagination.

They are extraordinary eyepieces and give astonishing images in my Meade 14" LX200GPS, and every other scope I have every owned.

Thanks Bill for showing the optics. Once and for all showing that they are indeed three different lenses in the group of four. And we all know that one of them is the special glass not generally available and only in limited pours, especially for the exceptional 48mm Brandon.

Lie I said -- just my 2-cents.


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Rick Woods
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Ed Kessler]
      #5651501 - 01/30/13 01:13 AM

Quote:

I'm using Brandon's with a Vernonscope binoviewer for much of my observing these days.




You're obviously a man of refinement and impeccable taste.


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Rick Woods
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5651508 - 01/30/13 01:24 AM

Quote:

Hi Jeff ,


>>>> Equating age of a design to usefulness or performance is a big mistake. <<<<<

I don't think so .





Well you should. I submit:

Exhibit A - Marilyn Monroe. As far as I know, there have been no improvements in the design, despite the passage of time and multiple newer entries.

Exhibit B - the Les Paul and Stratocaster guitars. There have been modifications, versions, etc; but the original design is where they really got it right.

Exhibit C - the Constitution of the United States. Nuff said.

(You already covered Exhibit D, the 1911 pistol.)

Some things are just good, and remain good. Other things come along, but never eclipse them.


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johnnyha
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5651709 - 01/30/13 07:23 AM

Quote:

Exhibit C - the Constitution of the United States. Nuff said.




To be fair, the original, "perfect" document has undergone a few subtle, minor alterations over the years - establishment of gun rights, abolition of slavery, women's right to vote, freedom of speech, and so forth.

Of course, by the same token, the newer Brandons have different colored coatings.


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jrbarnett
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5652517 - 01/30/13 03:08 PM

Marilyn was a "pill head" with emotional problems.

Guitars, themselves, are headed the way of the Lute and Mandolin.

The Constitution erroneously confers things as "rights" that really ought instead to be "privileges" that have to be earned and can be taken away when someone demonstrates that they can't use them responsibly.

Thanks heavens that Brandons are NOT analogous to the listed items.

- Jim


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Rick Woods
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5652572 - 01/30/13 03:40 PM

Quote:

Marilyn was a "pill head" with emotional problems.

Guitars, themselves, are headed the way of the Lute and Mandolin.

The Constitution erroneously confers things as "rights" that really ought instead to be "privileges" that have to be earned and can be taken away when someone demonstrates that they can't use them responsibly.






Dude! What's wrong with you?

- I was speaking of Marilyn Monroe. You're obviously talking about Norma Jean Whats-her-name.

- You're hallucinating about guitars. I'd love to know where you got that idea!

- Facist-speak. Who confers these "privileges"? You, I assume, would be the one to determine whether a person was or wasn't using them responsibly?
You tread on dangerous ground when you speak about the Constitution being in error. Such an assertion presupposes that you are smarter and wiser than the men who framed it. No offense, Jim, but - I don't think so!

You always seemed so rational before.


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bcuddihee
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5652823 - 01/30/13 05:27 PM

+1

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johnnyha
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5652968 - 01/30/13 06:32 PM

I sense the Brandons are slowly gaining more respect. Gone are the days when the actual word was censored from this very site. Especially with the current dearth of quality orthos, I think people are starting to appreciate the incredible quality v. cost value of these little expertly-polished American jewels. They have definitely become quite popular in the binoviewing community.

They are not plossls, they are not orthos. They are Brandons!


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iceblazeModerator
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5653137 - 01/30/13 08:15 PM

No more politics please. Keep this on topic in regards to the exposed Brandon, and the theory behind them.

Thanks,

-James


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dscarpa
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5654553 - 01/31/13 03:35 PM

I bought a 24 Brandon in Dec. and it's one of my favorites. Used it last night last night barlowed back with my 10 XW and 12 Delos with very good seeing on Jupiter, Saturn and the Moon. The Brandon's every bit their equal but with a special quality to the image that's all it's own. I got to use it and the 10XW barlowed at 550X on the Moon in my C-9.25 with excellent seeing a few weeks ago. One of my all time favorite lunar sessions. As for DSOs while image seems darker than the widefields I can see as many stars and or as much nebula detail. Once again that special quality comes through. David

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Jeff Morgan
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5654630 - 01/31/13 04:26 PM

Quote:

I bought a 24 Brandon in Dec. and it's one of my favorites. Used it last night last night barlowed back with my 10 XW and 12 Delos with very good seeing on Jupiter, Saturn and the Moon. The Brandon's every bit their equal but with a special quality to the image that's all it's own. I got to use it and the 10XW barlowed at 550X on the Moon in my C-9.25 with excellent seeing a few weeks ago. One of my all time favorite lunar sessions. As for DSOs while image seems darker than the widefields I can see as many stars and or as much nebula detail. Once again that special quality comes through. David




The 24 has become my favorite too. It has sharpness, contrast, and great eye relief. The best view I have ever had of the M11 region (including large Dob views) was through an 8" refractor with the 24 Brandon. The rifts of dark nebula, range of grayscale, and the tiny diamond stars were incredible.

While I love my Delos eyepieces last year I put a barlowed 24 Brandon against my new 10 Delos, and on the narrow field targets it was the clear winner, as I wrote in post 5179553.


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BillP
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5654681 - 01/31/13 04:53 PM

Quote:

As for DSOs while image seems darker than the widefields I can see as many stars and or as much nebula detail.




IMO, the darker "look" to the background is a consequence of the reduced transmission of single coated optics and the hypothesized better polish could be a factor as well. FWIW, in many tests I have done over the years with Brandon's vs other multicoated eyepieces, was easy to detect greater extent to nebula and more faint or adverted vision stars with the multicoated optics. Most recently I pitted the 8mm Brandon against the 8mm AP-SPL and it was *no contest* on which pulled in more stars and nebula (the AP)...similarly with the 24mm Brandon vs the 25mm Sterling. On Moon and Planets though, the Brandon definitely outclasses most normal eyepieces showing more or better details.


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Kent10
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5654732 - 01/31/13 05:24 PM

I wonder what the difference in transmission would be between the Brandon and AP-SPL or Sterling. Is it true that most people wouldn't notice a difference of up to 10%. Is the transmission difference between those 2 EP's more than 10% then if the difference is easily seen. Thanks.

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Joe Bergeron
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5654745 - 01/31/13 05:30 PM






Really was one of the very simplest eyepieces to take apart I have done. No little retaining rings to futz with or anything like that. And very easy to "properly" reassemble.




No, you're out of luck. You released the magical stardust that Don includes between the lens groups. Your Brandon will never be the same again.


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leonard
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: BillP]
      #5655160 - 01/31/13 10:01 PM

Hello BillP,


Glade you took the time to show the lens elements of the Brandon . I may have known about the lens configuration and let it slip my mind , but it come as a suprise that it looks this way .
I had it in my mind that the Brandon had one lens group with a smaller diameter than the other like what may be called a true Plossl.
Thanks for showing .

PS - Sorry about steering the topic away from thread , I feel remorse over the fact , enough said .

Leonard


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iceblazeModerator
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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: leonard]
      #5655195 - 01/31/13 10:20 PM

Final warning. If this thread does not stay on topic it will be locked. We do not need anymore harassing of other members just because they prefer a specific line of eyepieces. I have removed all of the bickering-type posts and their responses.

Thanks.

-James


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orion61

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Re: Exposed Brandon new [Re: Moonglum]
      #5656044 - 02/01/13 10:27 AM

Quote:

Hey! Gonna blacken the edges with a sharpie before you put them back in? Are these easy to take apart and put back together? (I want to blacken mine...) I ordered mine with no fieldstops because I'm alt/az at F20. I'm gonna try cutting my own fieldstops out of a soft black plastic waste-basket. Getting the holes perfectly centre for merging with binos will be the tricky part.



try rubber O-rings they work great!


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