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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5686478 - 02/18/13 06:48 AM

This ol' bear has to tend to his cubs, so once the children were settled in, I brought out the 8" and the 12" scopes, both at f/4.9 and w/o Paracorr for a limited test with the 14mm Delos.

It was a short test, but enough of one. It's an amazing eyepiece.

My first premier eyepiece was the 13T6, and in a lot of ways this is what the Delos reminds me of, only with a lot more eye relief. Heck, the field stop is almost identical to the 13T6. Having that extra amount of eye relief makes a *big* difference in viewing comfort for those with eyeglasses.

Contrast? Incredible. Then again, my previous two eyepieces that I've used to hit that 2-3mm exit pupil "sweet spot" on my f/5 dobs have been a 13T6 and a 13mm Ethos, both renowned for their contrast, so nothing really new in saying that. I took a quick peek at Jupiter in the 8" (71X) and while the lack of magnification concentrated the planet's light a lot more than I'd have desired for my eyes, I could still make a lot of detail in the belts. Putting the planet outside the FOV didn't "teleport" wayward ghost images back into the FOV.

The softness I saw earlier at the very edge was indeed coma from the mirror, as I found the off-axis astigmatism and field curvature at the edge to be negligible. No difficulties in holding the exit pupil once the adjustment on the housing was made.

My only disappointment, and it didn't impede the function of the eyepiece on either scope, was the amount of in-focus. My 8" f/4.9 is designed to work for both imagers and visual observers, and places the focal plane out to the point where most eyepieces require an extension tube to reach focus for visual use. Not a terribly-long extension tube, mind you, but you'll still need one. That's actually a plus, because if an eyepiece like the 14D needs more infocus, you simply take out the extension tube.

The point is, extension tubes are cheap. Ripping the stock focuser out and replacing it with a low-profile one to handle specific accessories and eyepieces, though, isn't.

I could reach focus in the 12" f/4.9 Skywatcher Dob. The eyepiece came within 10mm of "bottoming out" on the focuser. The 12" Dob has just the base focuser in it, and it's hardly a low-profile focuser. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about the 14D's in-focus issues on other folks' scopes, but I just wanted to let y'all know--you've been warned.

All in all, great eyepiece, and a very welcome addition to the stable.

Clear Skies,
Phil


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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5686722 - 02/18/13 10:10 AM

Quote:

.. To me the XW is a lot easier to hold and I leave the eye cups of my XW's in the full "down" position.....no problems doing that on the XW's.....I couldn't ever do that with the 6mm Delos I owned, which is now owned by Hernando.




Mark, thanks for the mention, glad the trade worked very well for both of us because in my case, the Delos is easier to hold with less beaning/blackouts (eyecups fully retracted) compared to the Pentax XW.

Best,


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: ibase]
      #5686998 - 02/18/13 02:07 PM

Wow!

With the 14m Delos having that much in focus, I would have to pass altogether if I ever decided to get that EP. I have a 14mm Denkmeier that I almost sold a few times because I wanted to try a different eyepiece. I took the 14mm Denk out on a few occasions and from what I saw, it offers excellent performance, has a 70 degree field, super sharp field stop, is extremely light, and it is parfocal with the rest of my eyepiece line.

I am actually pretty much at a point where I'd hate to stir up the line I have now because they all throw up excellent views, save for a bit of coma / astigmatism in my new 38mm Q70 I just picked up after selling the first one off to try out a better corrected wide field sweeper, (That was a 34mm ES I had bought from MRNUTTY). Great EP and all, but I actually preferred the 38mm Q70 because I can takes pics with my camera easily with it, it has no blackout issues and it is a lot lighter and parfocal to the rest of my eyepieces. The 34mm ES required a 28mm Baader FTR so I could even reach focus at all !

The 14mm Denk in terms of edge performance is excellent. All I can see w/o a Paracorr is extremely *MINOR* coma about 85-90% of the way out. Transmission is excellent, coatings are top notch, and it barlows really well.

Thanks for the report Phil, now I know 100% that I will steer clear of the 14mm Delos, and only because of the in focus it has. Not knocking it in any way, as the 6mm Delos I traded for my 7mm XW with Hernando was an incredible EP in it's own right. I just preferred a bit less magnification and I found the 6mm Delos a bit too long ergonomically speaking. The 7mm XW fits the bill in terms of being parfocal with the rest of my eyepieces as well.

Hernando:

I'd like to take another opportunity to thank you for the trade here as well. I still have the 7mm Pentax XW! In all of my trades, and sales, the 7mm XW has remained in my line up and will remain for a long time to come, which is a lot for me, After getting the 7mm XW, I went and grabbed a like new 10mm Pentax XW to compliment the 7mm XW!

Cheers,


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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5687800 - 02/18/13 08:58 PM

Quote:



Hernando:

I'd like to take another opportunity to thank you for the trade here as well. I still have the 7mm Pentax XW! In all of my trades, and sales, the 7mm XW has remained in my line up and will remain for a long time to come, which is a lot for me, After getting the 7mm XW, I went and grabbed a like new 10mm Pentax XW to compliment the 7mm XW!





Thanks too Mark, glad your XW arsenal is growing! Delos & Pentax XW's are in the same top class, performance wise, as OP's review reveals too, some of the best eyepieces ever made!

Best,


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: ibase]
      #5688396 - 02/19/13 07:23 AM

I had a chance last night for a very quick peek through the 14mm Delos in my 8" f/4.9. Our 2-year-old and 8-month-old take up a lot of our time, and part of being on cub duty means I could only be outside for about 10 minutes.

I was interested in seeing how well the eyepiece barlows. As it turns out, VERY WELL. I used a 2X GSO Barlow in conjunction with the 14mm Delos. *Phenomenal* contrast on Jupiter and the moon with a very clean image.

One word of caution, though--remember that required infocus I mentioned on the 14mm Delos? It manifests itself in the form of more amplification than what is stated on your barlow lens, because the focal plane of the eyepiece is situated further from the field lens of the barlow than would be the case for other eyepieces.

On an 8" f/4.9, the 14mm Delos' 17.3mm field stop should yield almost exactly a 1.00-deg TFOV, and 0.50-deg TFOV at 2X. As it turns out, the moon last night was at a point in its orbit where its angular size was almost exactly 30', so the 14D+2X combo should have had the moon span across the entire field stop. Instead, I noticed that it could only fit maybe 90%--if that--of the moon's disk in there, meaning I was getting at least 2.2X, or the equivalent of a "6.4mm" Delos.

Overall, I'd say Televue has a winner with the 14mm Delos. This, combined with the 10mm, deliver a real punch for anyone with an ~f/5 scope. I have been thoroughly impressed at this eyepiece's sharpness, comfort and contrast, as well as that of the 10mm.

I would clearly rate the 14mm Delos as superior to the 14XW if you're not using a Paracorr. Yes, the Paracorr will clean up the 14XW's field curvature, but if you don't want to spend the money for a premium 14mm eyepiece AND a Paracorr, get the Delos--provided your scope's focuser can handle the required in-focus of the 14mm Delos. I'll take some measurements next time I'm out to figure out how much extra in-focus is required vs. other eyepieces.

For the 10mm range, I've looked through both the 10XW and the 10mm Delos and it's a case of personal preference there. You simply can't lose picking either one.

I do wish that they had a few 2" offerings in the Delos line. They phased out the Radians; why not do the same for the aging Panoptic line? But the more I think about that, the more I realize the ES-68's are priced in a way that it's probably not worth their time and investment.

Clear Skies,
Phil


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Ava
sage


Reged: 11/30/11

Loc: Sweden
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #5688477 - 02/19/13 08:43 AM

The specs for all TeleVue eyepieces are available on their website, at

TeleVue eyepiece specs

As can be seen, the Delos requires .23" (almost 6mm) more in focus than any eyepiece that has its field stop at the barrel "shoulder" (where the 1.25" barrel ends and the eyepiece begins). A lot of TeleVue eyepieces, including all Delos except the 14mm and 17.3mm, have their field stop 0.25" (slightly more than 6mm) below the shoulder; compared to these the 14mm Delos requires 0.48" more in focus (around 12mm).

So, compared to say, the Delos 6mm, it requires less than half an inch more in focus, so the additional in focus needed shouldn't be too problematic for most scopes. If you can come to focus with a 31mm Nagler or 21mm Ethos (they require 0.15" more in focus over the 14mm Delos) you should have no problem with the Delos 14mm, provided your 2" - 1.25" adapter doesn't eat up too much space. There are low profile adapters at less than 3.5mm if you have a very tight fit for the 31mm Nagler/21mm Ethos.

Hope this helps.

Edited by Ava (02/19/13 08:57 AM)


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johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Ava]
      #5688624 - 02/19/13 10:31 AM

Actually there is almost 1" difference between the 14 Delos and the 8 or 6mm Ethos (-.23" to +.7" ). I had a 17.3mm Delos when it first came out and sold it because it was my only EP that required me to remove the extension on my FS102NSV. And the 21 Ethos is an even worse offender with a difference of well over an inch from the 8 and 6 Ethoi, from -.38" to +.7". Where these discrepancies usually cause problems is with people who have bino-friendly refractors that normally require an extension for regular eyepieces.

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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5688993 - 02/19/13 02:21 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

Quote:

One word of caution, though--remember that required infocus I mentioned on the 14mm Delos? It manifests itself in the form of more amplification than what is stated on your barlow lens, because the focal plane of the eyepiece is situated further from the field lens of the barlow than would be the case for other eyepieces.




Maybe the adapter in the pic below can be used, as long as the 14mm Delos could fit inside of it? I don't have the adapter any more but maybe someone here does and they could measure the ID of it and Phil could measure the OD of the 14mm Delos? These adapters allow eyepieces to go in further if they indeed need that extra "in focus".

PS: Thanks for the update Phil! This is a great thread!

Cheers,


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5689340 - 02/19/13 05:31 PM

Markus,

For reference, is the adapter shown above the Scope Stuff Negative Eyepiece Profile Adapter seen here--?

http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_npea.htm

Clear Skies,
Phil


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #5689437 - 02/19/13 06:22 PM

Phil,

I believe mine had a thinner 2" wall IIRC, and it was threaded for filters.

Here's another I just found:

http://www.astrosystems.biz/eyepieceadapter.htm

Cheers,


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5689764 - 02/19/13 09:30 PM

I have a micrometer at work, but not here at home. Best I can tell with a tape measure is that the eyepiece section just above the 1.25"-chrome barrel is 1.75"-dia., right near the edge of use for the Scope Stuff adapter but well within the confines of the Astrosystems adapter.

Clear Skies,
Phil


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John Rhodes
Vendor (Televue Rep)
*****

Reged: 02/21/06

Loc: Torrance, CA.
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #5690986 - 02/20/13 02:11 PM

Quote:


(2) I'm grateful that the Orion 8" f/4.9 is a dual photo/visual instrument. These tend to require extension tubes to get most eyepieces to focus. Most. The 14mm Delos, though, requires significantly more infocus than the 10mm Delos, so I just took off the extension tube. I don't know the exact amount, but it's not a smidge; it's a lot.
Clear Skies,
Phil




Phillip, All,
I asked David about this issue. Here's his response:
 
The 17.3mm and 14mm Delos could not be designed to be parfocal with the other 1.25" parfocal Delos, Plossl, Nagler and Panoptic eyepieces because of the limitation of the 1.25" barrel diameter. Not wishing to compromise the optical quality in any way, nor making the 17.3 and 14mm Delos into bulkier, more expensive, 2" models (with no benefit in TFOV), we elected to have them require more in-travel than the others.
 
If your current 2" focuser, with 1.25" adapter, does not have enough in-travel to reach focus with the 17.3mm and 14mm Delos, Tele Vue will shortly be offering a "below-profile" 2" to 1.25" adapter that will greatly reduce focuser in-travel.  Since the 1.25" barrel will be positioned within the 2" drawtube, the adapter will lock onto the eyepiece using a nylon-tipped set screw.
 
For Paracorr type 2 users, the adapter was designed to parfocalize the 17.3mm and 14mm Delos with other 1.25" parfocal Tele Vue eyepieces (when they're used with the 1.25" adapter supplied with the Paracorr).  The 17.3mm and 14mm Delos will, therefore, conveniently use the same Paracorr setting as all other parfocal 1.25" Tele Vue eyepieces.
 
In other applications, such as refractors and SCT's, the special 2" adapter will make the 17.3mm and 14mm Delos close to parfocal with other parfocal 1.25" Tele Vue eyepieces when they are used with our "high-hat" type 2" to 1-1/4" adapter.


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: John Rhodes]
      #5692818 - 02/21/13 01:56 PM

Quote:

Phillip, All,
I asked David about this issue. Here's his response:
 
The 17.3mm and 14mm Delos could not be designed to be parfocal with the other 1.25" parfocal Delos, Plossl, Nagler and Panoptic eyepieces because of the limitation of the 1.25" barrel diameter. Not wishing to compromise the optical quality in any way, nor making the 17.3 and 14mm Delos into bulkier, more expensive, 2" models (with no benefit in TFOV), we elected to have them require more in-travel than the others.
 
If your current 2" focuser, with 1.25" adapter, does not have enough in-travel to reach focus with the 17.3mm and 14mm Delos, Tele Vue will shortly be offering a "below-profile" 2" to 1.25" adapter that will greatly reduce focuser in-travel.  Since the 1.25" barrel will be positioned within the 2" drawtube, the adapter will lock onto the eyepiece using a nylon-tipped set screw.




John,

Good to hear. Both my scopes can handle the in-focus, but I'd be curious to try out a negative profile adapter just to see its effect on barlowing the eyepiece.

While I got your attention (and hopefully David's), on behalf of those who have multiple Deloses ("Deloi"?)...please, oh please, oh please, oh PLEEEEEEEASE make a 20mm-ish 2" Delos. Charge $400 - $450 if you have to. Those who might shy from having a 20XW because of the field curvature will not only have a viable alternative, but an upgrade as well. That's how I already feel about the 14mm Delos vs. the 14XW.

Clear Skies,
Phil


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #5692929 - 02/21/13 03:20 PM Attachment (27 downloads)

Quote:

While I got your attention (and hopefully David's), on behalf of those who have multiple Deloses ("Deloi"?)...please, oh please, oh please, oh PLEEEEEEEASE make a 20mm-ish 2" Delos. Charge $400 - $450 if you have to. Those who might shy from having a 20XW because of the field curvature will not only have a viable alternative, but an upgrade as well. That's how I already feel about the 14mm Delos vs. the 14XW.




FC: none
Coma: In this EP? Don't see any
Price? $160.00 used


Had: 20mm ES, 17mm Celestron Ultima LX, 20mm Nagler T2, 22mm Pan, 18mm Meade 5000 UWA, prob a few more.

This EP can hang with the 20mm T2 and they are very close in performance. I opted to keep the 22mm LVW for the size and weight. Can't go wrong here IMO!

Cheers,


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5695187 - 02/22/13 05:10 PM

Markus,

I was thinking more along the lines of a 72-deg AFOV Delos to replace the 19mm and 24mm Panoptics, both of which lack enough eye relief to comfortably use with eyeglasses.

Televue's had a gaping hole for eyeglass wearers around 20mm. The 20T2 was replaced with a lighter 20T5, but with the same paltry 12mm of eye relief.

Clear Skies,
Phil


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #5695210 - 02/22/13 05:21 PM

Phil,

You won't like the 17.3mm Delos in a fast scope unless you use a Paracorr. Off axis coma started in my scope only 1/2 of the way out!

Cheers,


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5695266 - 02/22/13 05:48 PM

Quote:

Phil,

You won't like the 17.3mm Delos in a fast scope unless you use a Paracorr. Off axis coma started in my scope only 1/2 of the way out!

Cheers,




That's quite reminescent of a 17T4 Nagler I once had. It worked *great* in an f/5 refractor (no coma to correct for), minus the very finicky eye placement. But it did not hold up well in an f/5 reflector w/o a Paracorr.

I'm not against coma correctors. But I'm not willing to give up 15% of that wide field of view I'm shelling out the dough for. If someone makes a coma corrector with no barlowing effect and a tunable top, I'll buy it.

Yes, I know there will be those that say, "why just get the Paracorr and put up with it?" Well, I've got an 8" f/4.9, partly because I wanted a nice balance between grab-n-go portability, enough aperture for deep-sky work under dark skies, and a wide enough field with a 30ES-82 or 31T5 to act as a quasi-RFT.

Pop in a Paracorr, and it's an 8" f/5.7. Fine and dandy, but for the same cost as the Paracorr, I could have bought an 8" f/5.9 as is, and I'd still lose the FOV I'd have with the 8" f/4.9.

Clear Skies,
Phil


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #5695305 - 02/22/13 06:03 PM



Cheers,


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5695448 - 02/22/13 07:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

While I got your attention (and hopefully David's), on behalf of those who have multiple Deloses ("Deloi"?)...please, oh please, oh please, oh PLEEEEEEEASE make a 20mm-ish 2" Delos. Charge $400 - $450 if you have to. Those who might shy from having a 20XW because of the field curvature will not only have a viable alternative, but an upgrade as well. That's how I already feel about the 14mm Delos vs. the 14XW.




FC: none
Coma: In this EP? Don't see any
Price? $160.00 used


Had: 20mm ES, 17mm Celestron Ultima LX, 20mm Nagler T2, 22mm Pan, 18mm Meade 5000 UWA, prob a few more.

This EP can hang with the 20mm T2 and they are very close in performance. I opted to keep the 22mm LVW for the size and weight. Can't go wrong here IMO!

Cheers,




One complaint about the 22 LVW--it does not really have 20mm eye relief. More like ~16mm usable, which is enough for some but not for me to really relax and take in the view with eyeglasses. The eye relief on it is reminiscent of the Nagler 12T4. So that leads me to believe that you cannot achieve a true 20mm ER eyepiece once you go beyond the 20mm focal length WITHOUT going to a 2" barrel (like Phil suggested for TeleVue to do). But once you go up to that 2" barrel, look what TeleVue already has in their lineup, the Nagler 22T4 with 19mm ER! Would they cannibalize the 22T4 sales and release a 2" Delos 22 or 24mm eyepiece that has 1 more mm of ER and 10 deg less AFOV??


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: 14mm Delos just arrived! new [Re: Starman81]
      #5695466 - 02/22/13 07:39 PM

I'm ok when using my eye glasses with the 22mm or 5mm LVW because mine are curved in a convex manner. I also remove the eye cups on my LVW's as well which gets me in closer.

I have never scratched my eyeglasses on them BTW.

Cheers,


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