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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: t.r.]
      #5819504 - 04/24/13 10:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You never have to struggle with "this eyepiece has too high a magnification and seeing compromises the view, but my next eyepiece down has too low a magnification. I need one in between." Now you have the in-between eyepiece. You can ALWAYS find the exact correct magnification for that object and seeing conditions.




That right there, may be the single most important reason to own a zoom eyepiece.




Yep. That's why I have Baader and Nagler Zooms. But I still don't know if that's reason enough to have a $950 Leica ASPH, especially when it might need an additional $200 adapter and $500 Barlow to make it work optimally.

Mike


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dscarpa
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5819507 - 04/24/13 11:00 AM

I'm curious as to how they compare on Saturn. David

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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: SteveG]
      #5819511 - 04/24/13 11:01 AM

Quote:

I think it says a lot that the Leica can match the performance of the ortho's, with a wider field (and zoom).




For the price, I would hope the Leica ASPH would surpass the performance of a BGO. It better, if I were to buy one.

Mike


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Starman81
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5819560 - 04/24/13 11:24 AM

Quote:

t.r.,

Quote:

I don't think that the Leica is touted as a replacement for other eyepieces...but it is a DARN good compliment to the smaller glass offerings!




Well, at least in a sense it is a replacement. I've read many threads where a purchaser of the Leica sold such and such eyepieces in order to afford the Leica. That strongly implies that the Leica is indeed a replacement for those eyepieces.

In fact, if I were to buy a Leica ASPH, it better be as a replacement for other eyepieces! I'm not paying $950 for an eyepiece that is merely a compliment. Not happenin'. No way.


Mike




Mike, not to be the fly in your ointment, but your current 3 zooms nearly exceed the new price of the Leica Zoom. For someone who uses a zoom (Baader) 80-90% of the time (focuser time, that is), you represent a perfect use case example of someone who should buy this super premium Zoom.

So you could part with the other zooms, buy the Leica Zoom and keep most if not all of the complementary single focal lengths as selling Pentax XWs is sheer folly!


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Starman1
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5819564 - 04/24/13 11:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think it says a lot that the Leica can match the performance of the ortho's, with a wider field (and zoom).




For the price, I would hope the Leica ASPH would surpass the performance of a BGO. It better, if I were to buy one.

Mike



It wouldn't have to surpass the BGO performance. After all, it's a complete set of ten of them! How much for ten BGOs?


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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Starman1]
      #5819632 - 04/24/13 12:07 PM

Don,

Quote:

It wouldn't have to surpass the BGO performance. After all, it's a complete set of ten of them! How much for ten BGOs?




Not enough to pay for one Leica plus adapter plus high-end Barlow!

But seriously, I wouldn't sell my BGO's or XO's or Brandons to finance the Leica. For me, that would be like trading apples for oranges. That's OK if you only wanted the oranges, but what if you want a variety of fruits?

No, the fixed focal length eyepieces I would sell off as replacements for the range of the Leica (or Leica + Barlow) would be my XW's, Radians, LVW 8, and similar eyepieces. I might also let the Baader Zoom and one of my Nagler Zooms go.

But for my purposes, I really don't look at the Leica as a top-tier planet/lunar eyepiece ... which actually it is not when compared to XO's and ZAO's, at least according to some observers. For planets and the Moon, I'd rather binoview middle-tier pairs and monoview the XO's. If I ever buy a Leica, it would be mostly for deep sky. My humble Baader Zoom has taught me the value of a decent Zoom for DSO at a dark site.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Starman81]
      #5819687 - 04/24/13 12:31 PM

Quote:

Mike, not to be the fly in your ointment, but your current 3 zooms nearly exceed the new price of the Leica Zoom.




That would be true only if I had bought all three zooms new, and if I purchase the Leica without the special Starlight Instruments adapter and a high-end Barlow.

It's amazing how costs can mount quickly when trying to optimize a wonderful Zoom like the Leica ASPH. None of that was necessary for the Baader Hyperion.

Quote:

For someone who uses a zoom (Baader) 80-90% of the time (focuser time, that is), you represent a perfect use case example of someone who should buy this super premium Zoom.




Well, at least you did say I should buy the Leica. Most people nowadays avoid the word "should" like the plague. Most would say I "have" to buy it. No, I don't "have" to buy the Leica, but, yes, maybe I "should."

Quote:

So you could part with the other zooms, buy the Leica Zoom and keep most if not all of the complementary single focal lengths as selling Pentax XWs is sheer folly!




Yes, there is the crux of the problem. IF I were to buy the Leica, which eyepieces would it replace? Because the Leica would definitely be replacing some wide swathe of my eyepieces. Otherwise I would not be buying it.

Mike


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MRNUTTY
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5819719 - 04/24/13 12:44 PM

While I appreciate the arguments concerning the utility of a zoom, and also appreciate the degree of critical attention that has been given to this particular zoom, all coupled with my current four zoom experiences have not made a Leica believer out of me. Finally, while I am certain that those that have invested in it, and are enjoying reaping the benefits, are having real experiences; I'm just thankful my wallet is keeping a level head even if my brain is groping for a personal rationalization to buy one for myself in the midst of a small fortune of TV and Pentax EP's

Steady as she goes Mr Sulu!

Edited by MRNUTTY (04/24/13 12:46 PM)


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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: MRNUTTY]
      #5819779 - 04/24/13 01:17 PM

For me, the exhorbitant price of the Leica ASPH Zoom - even more so when coupled with a $500 top-tier Barlow - is a factor which severely limits its utility.

In other words, I'd think twice about popping that sucker into a grab-n-go scope and walking out into the 'hood. I don't have a backyard, don't have a deck. Unless I travel an hour to my dark site, I have to set up in public areas here in suburbia. I'm not sure if I want to do that with a $950 Zoom and $500 Barlow. Heck, I don't even use my Android tablet at the side of my building.

So even if I do get the Leica, I might still be keeping my other Barlows for grab-n-go here at home. The eyepieces a Leica would replace in my kit would be the XW's, LVW, Radians. It is logical and inevitable ... if I get the Leica.

Mike


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Starman81
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5819809 - 04/24/13 01:28 PM

Quote:


In other words, I'd think twice about popping that sucker into a grab-n-go scope and walking out into the 'hood. I don't have a backyard, don't have a deck. Unless I travel an hour to my dark site, I have to set up in public areas here in suburbia. I'm not sure if I want to do that with a $950 Zoom and $500 Barlow.

So even if I do get the Leica, I might still be keeping my other Barlows for grab-n-go here at home. The eyepieces a Leica would replace in my kit would be the XW's, LVW, Radians. It is logical and inevitable ... if I get the Leica.

Mike




I was thinking about the same thing, Mike. Knowing your situation and while at the same time living vicariously through you, I say you have to keep in mind the fact that the 'peeps' in your 'hood' wouldn't know the difference between a Baader Zoom or a Leica Zoom or LegalZoom.com. Is there is any real appreciable risk of using uber-expensive equipment in your neighborhood? Only you can answer that. If you have been observing there for years and have had no trouble whatsoever, then you are probably good to go. It is not like a Leica Zoom is going to bling at night; it is quite understated and classy looking. That is a assuming you don't encrust it with diamonds or Swarovski crystals! But if you do shell out that much cash I would hope you could get as much use out of it as possible or else that might defeat the purpose.


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jerwin
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Starman81]
      #5820175 - 04/24/13 04:29 PM

Where does one go about buying this mythical Lieca Asph Zoom. I think I found it on hayneedle for 900, but I'm coming up short on the adapter.

Is that a 2" adapter only. I've tried a few different zooms on my Lunt LS60 with an 1200 blocking filter (1.25) and just haven't found anything that really makes me saw wow. Heard good things about the pentax zoom's eye relieve, but everything else I read said the lieca was the best of the best.

Thanks
Jim


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johnnyha
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: jerwin]
      #5820712 - 04/24/13 07:57 PM

Sure it's relatively expensive. But I don't remember all this gnashing of teeth over the price of the 21mm Ethos, which is pretty much the same as the Leica ASPH Zoom.

Jim you can get it from Markus at APM with your choice of adapter.


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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5820767 - 04/24/13 08:34 PM

I don't have any Ethos, either.


Mike


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johnnyha
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5820870 - 04/24/13 09:22 PM

Quote:

I don't have any Ethos, either.


Mike



Yeh I debated over that 21mm Ethos for several years until I finally bought one... and didn't like it (mainly due to brownouts). Sold it a few months later. The Leica otoh looks like a keeper.


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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5820907 - 04/24/13 09:45 PM

I'll make do with the ES 100 Degrees. But will I make do with the Baader and Nagler Zooms?


Mike


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andydj5xp
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5821290 - 04/25/13 04:10 AM

Quote:

I'll make do with the ES 100 Degrees. But will I make do with the Baader and Nagler Zooms?


Mike




You are obviously looking all the time for reasons not to get a Leica ASPH zoom. But nobody forces you to purchase one. Therefore, you are by no means in a position to defend yourself. And there are fixed focal length eyepieces of comparable (Delos, Pentax XW) or even better (ZAOIIs, Pentax XOs) quality. Therefore, you don't miss much - if anything at all - if you stay without the Leica. Period.

The Leica zoom is a very good alternative/complement to other eyepieces. It combines utmost versatility with top notch optical quality. You get viewing comfort without loosing performance.

What makes me wondering though is your preference of zooms in general (you are often mentioning how much you like your Hyp zoom), but your firm rejection of the Leica. It's expensive, yes, but this is a hobby and - within certain limits of course - all of us are willing to spend quite some money - much more than for the Leica - for a hobby which gives us such amount of satisfaction.

Andreas


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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: andydj5xp]
      #5821356 - 04/25/13 06:59 AM

Quote:

You are obviously looking all the time for reasons not to get a Leica ASPH zoom. But nobody forces you to purchase one. Therefore, you are by no means in a position to defend yourself.




I didn't think it was that obvious. But obviously I am in a position to defend myself because I do keep finding reasons not to purchase a Leica ... or at least no overpowering reasons to purchase one, not yet, not for me. In any case, a consumer should thoroughly consider pro and con positions when contemplating any very expensive purchase. For me, the Leica ASPH is a very expensive purchase.

Mike


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Bob S.
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5821399 - 04/25/13 07:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You are obviously looking all the time for reasons not to get a Leica ASPH zoom. But nobody forces you to purchase one. Therefore, you are by no means in a position to defend yourself.




I didn't think it was that obvious. But obviously I am in a position to defend myself because I do keep finding reasons not to purchase a Leica ... or at least no overpowering reasons to purchase one, not yet, not for me. In any case, a consumer should thoroughly consider pro and con positions when contemplating a very expensive purchase.

Mike




Mike, I called Markus and told him not to sell you a ASPH as you would only be purchasing it in a weak moment

Seriously, I have been reading this thread since I own BGO's, Pentax XW's, Ethos, and two ASPH's and have owned ZAOII's and other fine ep's that I compared to the ASPH.

In my fast Newts and large solar scope, I have been finding that my preferred eyepiece for just about any occasion is my ASPH. I have minor problems with eye placement but other than that, I find nothing that compels me to use my large collection of other eyepieces. Like yourself, apparently, you like the use of zooms. Up until the ASPH, I hated zooms. I could not stand the degradation of the image and felt that the convenience was greatly overshadowed by the poor performance of any of the zooms I had used until getting not one but two ASPH's in two different 2" thread sizes for different applications of filters/barlows, etc.

I continue to marvel at how I just simply prefer the ASPH for its ability to dial in the exact magnification that the seeing will support. I also marvelled in the past when making comparisons for my eye that there was nothing that I owned including my BGO's, UO HD's, Pentax XW's, TV Ethos or Zeiss AOII's that would best the relatively simple ASPH.

My finest night so far with my new 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft came coincidentally with the use of an ASPH in native mode with my SIPS and then that night with the use of 2x and 4x TV Powermates. It was one of those magical nights that you wait for each year to really show you why you are in the hobby. Yes, I pulled out a simple Ethos that night and felt constrained by the fixed focal length of the ep and reverted back to the ASPH for the remainder of the night.

I sense people are working hard to convince you for some reason??? I don't really care if you get one or not. I don't feel that I need to be a spokeperson/apologist for the ep or its cost which is fairly expensive. We all get to choose what we want to use or not use in this hobby. I personally am glad that Andreas had done such extensive homework on the ep over a long period of time which originally convinced me to try one. I have been nothing but pleased that I got not one but two of them. You needn't feel that you have to be an apologist if you are continuing to be skeptical. I just hope that you are not suffering from what we call "paralysis from analysis". There are always pros and cons to everthing. Other than the higher cost than other zooms, I see no serious cons with this ep for my uses. Bob


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t.r.
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5821425 - 04/25/13 07:50 AM

Mike, there is an alternative to the ASPH. Why not consider the older 7-22 Leica? I have two for binoviewing and the quality is outstanding! Yes, you give up field of view on the high end, but that doesn't sound like your reason for buying anyway. Aren't you primarily a planetary observer like myself? You don't need super wide fov at low power for that anyway. I assure the older zoom is fantastic in every regard, Andreas and Markus both agree with this. Try one at half the price...I will not give up mine!

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Sarkikos
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Re: Leica Asph Zoom No Better Than BGOs new [Re: t.r.]
      #5821508 - 04/25/13 09:05 AM

t.r.,

I'm only a planet or lunar observer when it's not around New Moon ... which is actually most of the month. So, yes, if proportion of time spent at the eyepiece is considered, I am mostly a planet/lunar observer.

But once or twice every New Moon, weather permitting, I go to a dark site to observe deep sky objects. My time at the dark site is precious to me. I appreciate how a decent Zoom lets me see more in the time available without having to futz around with switching eyepieces. I do use eyepieces other than the Baader Zoom when the object requires it for a larger field or better light transmission.

If I bought a Leica ASPH, it would be predominantly for deep sky. Much of the time the Leica would live in my Paracorr. When observing planetaries and bright nebulae, however, I'd want to use the Leica in a filter wheel. So the bottom line for me is making certain the Leica could be optimized for the Paracorr and also be able to switch to the filter wheel when needed. The basic concerns are determining which adapter(s) would allow me to switch between Paracorr and filter wheel with the most flexibility, and if the Leica would be optimized for coma correction when used in the Paracorr. Other observers have given me some information along these lines, but I'm still thinking it over.

I'm pretty much done assembling my kit for planet/lunar. I have pairs of Brandons, Paradigms, BGOs, TV Plossls and Meade 5Ks for binoviewing. For monoviewing planets and the Moon, I have XOs, XWs, an LVW 8 and singles from the bino pairs.

I also have a pair of Zhumell 8-24 Zooms which are surprisingly good for lunar. I've thought about getting another used Baader Zoom to make a bino pair, but I have yet to go through with that. There might not be enough space between the eyes and the weight might be more than I want.

A pair of the 7-22 Leica are worth considering for binoviewing planet/lunar (I don't binoview DSO). But like I said, I'm thinking about the Leica ASPH mostly for deep sky, not for planet/lunar, so the wider AFOV of the ASPH would be useful.

Mike


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