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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive?
      #5839123 - 05/03/13 09:44 PM

How come? It seems arbitrary at first but maybe it just happens to fall in that range which everyone needs for that perfect eyepiece lineup....

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Sean Puett
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/06/10

Loc: always cloudy, washington
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5839476 - 05/04/13 02:15 AM

It is an awesome eyepiece. There is a lot of well polished rare glass and it isn't made in China. It doesn't have a dark ring near the fieldstop that changes color or stars or other objects and it doesn't seem to lose as much light as similar eyepieces. The full field is usable and well corrected.

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Pollux556
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/14/08

Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Sean Puett]
      #5839640 - 05/04/13 07:11 AM

Oups, may be an interesting discussion here

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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5839651 - 05/04/13 07:26 AM

For me it's one of the most used EP's, great thing!

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Ava
sage


Reged: 11/30/11

Loc: Sweden
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: MAURITS]
      #5839675 - 05/04/13 08:01 AM

I think the answer is rather simple, it just reflects the larger cost of manufacture, the 21mm Ethos is a lot larger than the 1.25" Ethoses or the 17mm, this in turn requires larger, equally well polished and correctly figured lenses, etc. The 21mm is almost double the weight and volume compared to the 13mm to give you a sense of the difference.

If you compare the price scaling to refractors it almost feels like it should be more expensive (or maybe rather the smaller Ethoses less expensive).


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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Ava]
      #5839826 - 05/04/13 10:01 AM

Okay, I'm just trying to see if I can find a good range of EP for a new EdgeHD 800 scope:

Tele Vue Ethos 10mm 1.25" Eyepiece - 100*
Tele Vue Delos 17.3mm Eyepiece 1.25" EDL-17.3 72*
Tele Vue Nagler 31mm Type 5 - 2" Eyepiece EN5-310 82*
Tele Vue 2.0x 2" Powermate PMT-2200

I guess if I'm going to go with the 17mm, I don't need the 21..


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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5839870 - 05/04/13 10:43 AM

Better yet -

Tele Vue Ethos 8mm 1.25" Eyepiece - 100*
Tele Vue Nagler 31mm Type 5 - 2" Eyepiece EN5-310 82*
Tele Vue 2.0x 2" Powermate PMT-2200


If I use the PM on the Nagler I don't need a mid-range 17.3mm... but then if I use it on the 17.3, I don't need the 8.... ugh... what to do, what to do...

Edited by FishInPercolator (05/04/13 10:56 AM)


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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/25/10

Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5839974 - 05/04/13 11:52 AM

Not everyone however is deeply in love with the Ethos, lots of used ones for sale in my neck of the woods, some people find the views overpowering, JMPOV,DA.

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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5840007 - 05/04/13 12:06 PM

Interesting... overpowering in what way? I would think it would wide views on an SCT would be maximizing its usage ability...

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Eddgie
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5840060 - 05/04/13 12:35 PM

Study economics more. The answer is always there.

Almost always the answer to this question is blindingly simple.

Because the provider is selling a limited appeal item and has to make a high profit on each sample to make enough money to make it worth their time to do.

Why do Ferraris cost 10 times as much as Ford Focuses? Ford must sell tens to hundreds of thousands of them a year vs maybe a few hundred Ferraris a year.

So, Ferrari has to make far more per unit to pay their employees, pay for their electric bills, phone bills, internet bills and all the other stuff they have to pay for.

Televue charges what it charges so it can make a profit that it feels is justification for the item it is selling.

Again, simple economics.


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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5840082 - 05/04/13 12:56 PM

The original post/question seems to have been framed from the context of why the Ethos 21mm in particular is so much more expensive than the other Ethoses (Ethoi?). Just pure speculation here - either the demand is higher for this focal length and TV is charging what the market can bear, or it's simply more expensive (as mentioned in another post) to manufacture than the others in TV's 100-degree line.

Best,


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5840149 - 05/04/13 01:48 PM

Because it has the size, mass and engineering complexity of a ski boat.

By the way, it *is* made in China. Just not in the PROC. It is made in Taiwan (ROC).

I'd rather have the Nikon NAV-HW 17mm. It comes with an amplifier lens giving you two different focal lengths for the price of one. But it makes the 21mm Ethos look like a bargain priced eyepiece in comparison.

- Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (05/04/13 01:57 PM)


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5840175 - 05/04/13 02:03 PM

We live in a fee market, and manufacurers can use supply and demand curves to set price at the desired quantity they want to sell. If they set the price too high it will take longer to sell out, to low and they will sell out and have to produce more.

With the lower 20mm ES price they are selling out much more and producing more; they are probably building at economies of scale nad may have paid off their tooling by now.

Manufacurers decide what part of the market they want. Televue wants the luxury market; whereas ES claims the best value market. People that buy Televue buy it, because they want to be exclusive and have the best; they don't want everyone else to have it. ES consumers couldn't care less if everyone else have the same.


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JimMo
I'd Rather Do It Myself


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Under the SE Michigan lightdom...
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5840353 - 05/04/13 04:10 PM

Quote:

People that buy Televue buy it, because they want to be exclusive and have the best; they don't want everyone else to have it. ES consumers couldn't care less if everyone else have the same.




Hi Ken, I certainly don't buy Televue because I'm a snob and don't use them to show I'm better than anyone. My economics and situation is my own and I choose what I'm using based on that. If you remember I was lucky to win that first 13mm Ethos as a door prize drawing at the GLSG many moons ago and at the time I was happy with my Nagler T4's and 26T5. With the addition of the 13mm Ethos I consolidated over twenty five eyepieces to come up with my wide field set of seven 100º and a few longer focal length orthos and 24mm Panoptic. I now have less than half of total of what I previously had and all except one were bought used, or was traded for, or won as a door prize. I had most of them before the ES 100º eyepieces were even brought to market.

Anyways, why is a 21mm Ethos so expensive? Well, for me it's one of the few perfect eyepieces I've ever used in my f4.3 dob with Paracorr 2. I was going to try out a ES 20mm 100º at the '09 WSP but that never happened. Al Nagler let me use one of his for an hour and if I had been wearing socks the views would haved knocked them off. The 14.5" f4.3 mirror + 21mm Ethos + PC2 + the far southern Winter DSO's = nirvana. I recently traded a Nagler 31mm T5 for an ES 25mm 100º which I'm still evaluating. I might end up selling the 21 Ethos if the 25mm 100º lives up to expectations.


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Paul G
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5841601 - 05/05/13 12:42 PM

Quote:

People that buy Televue buy it, because they want to be exclusive and have the best; they don't want everyone else to have it. ES consumers couldn't care less if everyone else have the same.




Strange, I've never met another observer who bought an eyepiece just to feel exclusive. In fact, the very few observers I've met who were snobby about their equipment actually owned rather modest equipment. The people with really nice stuff have been most gracious about sharing the views.

I suspect the vast majority of people who buy Televue do so because TV eyepieces meet their needs and are affordable for them. Some have posted that there exists a "reverse elitism" here on CN; your comments seem to support their contention.


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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5841750 - 05/05/13 02:04 PM

Quote:

I'd rather have the Nikon NAV-HW 17mm. It comes with an amplifier lens giving you two different focal lengths for the price of one. But it makes the 21mm Ethos look like a bargain priced eyepiece in comparison.



I actually sold my 21E because I was kinda so-so about it, and got the Leica 17.9-8.9mm ASPH Zoom. Could not be happier, that proved to be a great decision for me. Of course I have a 31T5 to cover for the low end so it wasn't a tough decision, I found the 31T5 Nagler much more comfortable to use than the 21mm Ethos.


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JimMo
I'd Rather Do It Myself


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Under the SE Michigan lightdom...
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Paul G]
      #5841767 - 05/05/13 02:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

People that buy Televue buy it, because they want to be exclusive and have the best; they don't want everyone else to have it. ES consumers couldn't care less if everyone else have the same.




Strange, I've never met another observer who bought an eyepiece just to feel exclusive. In fact, the very few observers I've met who were snobby about their equipment actually owned rather modest equipment. The people with really nice stuff have been most gracious about sharing the views.

I suspect the vast majority of people who buy Televue do so because TV eyepieces meet their needs and are affordable for them. Some have posted that there exists a "reverse elitism" here on CN; your comments seem to support their contention.




I almost made a post about the same quote as above but my reply was not as nice as your post Paul so I thought better of it. I know Ken(faacanders) personally and I'm guessing he didn't really mean what he said.

Anyways, now I'd better go buy another Televue eyepiece to keep it out of the hands of one of the little people.


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: JimMo]
      #5841827 - 05/05/13 03:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

People that buy Televue buy it, because they want to be exclusive and have the best; they don't want everyone else to have it. ES consumers couldn't care less if everyone else have the same.




Strange, I've never met another observer who bought an eyepiece just to feel exclusive. In fact, the very few observers I've met who were snobby about their equipment actually owned rather modest equipment. The people with really nice stuff have been most gracious about sharing the views.

I suspect the vast majority of people who buy Televue do so because TV eyepieces meet their needs and are affordable for them. Some have posted that there exists a "reverse elitism" here on CN; your comments seem to support their contention.




I almost made a post about the same quote as above but my reply was not as nice as your post Paul so I thought better of it. I know Ken(faacanders) personally and I'm guessing he didn't really mean what he said.

Anyways, now I'd better go buy another Televue eyepiece to keep it out of the hands of one of the little people.




I know Ken as well and I'm sure he didn't quite mean it exactly as he stated it. He has both an ES100* (20mm) and an Ethos (10mm) and I am thinking he didn't buy his own Ethos just to feel 'exclusive'!

The one Ethos I have (13mm), I feel quite lucky to have it. No, I didn't win it in a raffle, but the unbeatable package deal that I scored on my dob and a couple EPs including the Ethos (on Craigslist of all places) definitely made me feel like a winner. Would I have been happy with an ES if it didn't come along, sure. I had the 9mm ES 100 and it was great--I think everyone should try a 100* EP if their finances allow.


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careysub
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 02/18/11

Loc: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: ibase]
      #5841859 - 05/05/13 03:18 PM

Quote:

The original post/question seems to have been framed from the context of why the Ethos 21mm in particular is so much more expensive than the other Ethoses (Ethoi?). Just pure speculation here - either the demand is higher for this focal length and TV is charging what the market can bear, or it's simply more expensive (as mentioned in another post) to manufacture than the others in TV's 100-degree line.

Best,




Using the current street (well, web) prices for the Ethos line I calculate the following cost per gram:
3.70 $1.30
4.70 $1.10
6.00 $1.40
8.00 $1.42
10.00 $1.30
13.00 $1.10
17.00 $1.12
21.00 $0.88

The Ethos 21mm is in fact the cheapest for each gram of glass you get. Could it simply be high materials and manufacturing costs for the larger EPs?


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Sean Puett
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/06/10

Loc: always cloudy, washington
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: careysub]
      #5841950 - 05/05/13 04:09 PM

Funny post

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