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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Blake Andrews]
      #5855933 - 05/12/13 05:15 PM

Thanks. After a few hours sleep I have had a chance to think more about last nights observations.

Firstly, it was a brief look. The spring sky primarily offers up galaxies and with a 4.7" refractor, well you get the idea. I had to wait until nearly the end of session for a complex Milky Way field to get to a respectable (workable) elevation above the horizon. By that time I was a bit fatigued. Had I been thinking more clearly I would have repeated the Izar test with the 22 mm eyepieces (although a wider double would be required at that low magnification).

The field curvature was a surprising result, I have never noted it before in Tele Vue products. But I should say that it was slight - I never lost the faint members of NGC 6910. The AP refractor serves up such fine diamond-point star images that I was able to make out the very slight softening. Had I not been looking very hard for differences between two equal focal length eyepieces (that is to say, doing more normal observing), I might have missed it.

In my refractor a 22 mm eyepiece only yields 46x. My Newtonian is almost finished with rebuild, and the increased focal length it will push the magnification up to 127x which will be more revealing.


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Don Taylor]
      #5855938 - 05/12/13 05:17 PM

Hi Don, (and others here),

IIRC, I will need a bit of "In focus" when using a Paracorr, is that correct? If that's the case, I will be good to go because when using all of my eyepieces, my focuser is almost racked all of the way out. I just might save up and look for a Type II. I've been observing for years without one, so waiting for one won't be so bad....but then I *DO* get one, I will like it a lot more!

Also, a few other questions here:

I am at F/4.7 and 1200mm FL.

What would a Paracorr Type 2 put me at? Would it be F/5.1 and 1295mm FL?

Cheers,


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Scott in NCModerator
Mad Hatter
*****

Reged: 03/05/05

Loc: NC
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5855953 - 05/12/13 05:25 PM

Mark,
Save your money and get a gently used type 1 rather than a type 2 Paracorr. At f/4.7, that's probably all you'll really need, especially if you don't really see much coma to begin with in your particular setup.


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5855968 - 05/12/13 05:32 PM

Thanks Scott.

Looks like some great advice. Now I know why I have been flipping eyepieces so much. I've been in denial for years, LOL!

So, I keep the eyepieces I have now, and save up for a Paracorr then. Now all of the people who have been telling me this will be clapping their hands, jumping up and down and saying "Wow, he finally saw the light"

Let's hope my eyepiece flipping stops. Is there a 12 step program for eyepiece flipping?

Cheers,


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5855981 - 05/12/13 05:42 PM

Quote:

Thanks Scott.

Looks like some great advice. Now I know why I have been flipping eyepieces so much. I've been in denial for years, LOL!

So, I keep the eyepieces I have now, and save up for a Paracorr then. Now all of the people who have been telling me this will be clapping their hands, jumping up and down and saying "Wow, he finally saw the light"

Let's hope my eyepiece flipping stops. Is there a 12 step program for eyepiece flipping?

Cheers,



Been there, done that.
"Hi!, My name's Don, and I'm an ocularholic."
"Hi, Don!"

The used Paracorr 1 is not a bad idea. If you can't find one, well........


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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5855995 - 05/12/13 05:51 PM

Quote:

But then again, one doesn't really do then when observing all of the time anyways.




Ya see, that's precisely the thing! You view & observe for what seems like a long time, never being bothered by coma. THEN you finally decide to specifically TRY & go lookin' for it.

When you finally DO notice the coma, it starts gnawing at your mind. It's now EVERYwhere, in just 'bout every EP you've been enjoying.... up until now. The death-blow- for me, anyhoo- was actually trying a ParaCorr for the first time- it was 30mm SWA type EPs i was getting bugged about. For the better ones, the PC cleaned up the coma nicely, and they had no other (major) aberrations of their own... the view was now stunning in a whole new way! For lesser-corrected EPs, there might still be some astigmatism or possibly field-curvature- but the coma is now gone, so they ain't so bad as before.

But the ParaCorr takes good EPs & really releases them to fly at their ultimate potential... and once you're sensitized to this, and have seen the difference, there's prob'ly no goin' back!

Give one a try- see what ya think. Who knows, maybe we P/C fans are all just conked on the Koolaid.


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Mike B]
      #5856049 - 05/12/13 06:22 PM

Great ideas Don & Mike!

Gonna giv'r a try if one pops up at the observing area I go to. In the meantime, I'll be saving and looking for a P/C Type 1.

Cheers,


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5856081 - 05/12/13 06:42 PM

"Is there a 12 step program for eyepiece flipping?"

Uh, buy a 13th eyepiece?


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5856124 - 05/12/13 06:59 PM



Cheers,


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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5856127 - 05/12/13 07:02 PM

I'm just guessin', but lookin' at his sigline i'd say Randy's kicked that twelve-step-program habit... a few times over...


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Don Taylor
sage


Reged: 07/12/09

Loc: South TEXAS
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5856283 - 05/12/13 08:35 PM

As in my earlier post a type 1 will work great and cost a lot less if you can find one.

IIRC both type 1 & type 2 paracorrs increase focal length (and therefore focal ratio) by 1.15


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Don Taylor]
      #5856345 - 05/12/13 09:07 PM

Thanks Don!

Cheers,


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5856425 - 05/12/13 09:57 PM

Quote:

Thanks Don!

Cheers,




Markus:

I definite recommend the Type 1 as well. I have owned my 12.5 inch F/4.06 Discovery for 12 or 13 years so I have been dedicated user of the Paracorr for a good number of years. My first Paracorr was the 1.25 inch model. Even at F/4, the type 1 does a very good job and at F/4.7 it really will be close to perfection...

Just make sure you use the proper spacing, that is the proper setting of the tunable top.

I should add that I spent some time Friday night with my 22mm Panoptic in my 16 inch F/4.42. I tried it without the Paracorr, lots of coma. With the Paracorr, it was much better but it did not stand up to the 20mm Type 2 Nagler in terms of off-axis correction or just the majesty of view...

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs (05/12/13 10:02 PM)


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5856477 - 05/12/13 10:31 PM

Thanks Jon!

Will do! I agree. The 20mm T2 is legendary!

Cheers,


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chuckscap
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/18/09

Loc: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Starman1]
      #5868108 - 05/17/13 08:43 PM

If I could have only eyepieces, I would keep my 22mm and 35mm Panoptic. Though my 32mm Brandon and Zeiss Jena Orthos would be hard to part with ...

Edited by chuckscap (05/17/13 08:44 PM)


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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: chuckscap]
      #6112505 - 10/02/13 05:51 AM

Quote:

If I could have only eyepieces, I would keep my 22mm and 35mm Panoptic. Though my 32mm Brandon and Zeiss Jena Orthos would be hard to part with ...




I've been comparing the 22T4 against the 22 Panoptic for the last 6 months or so. It has been on my mind for many years, but this thread was the last straw, so I picked up the Nagler.

After the last two nights of observing, I think the results are in re the 22 Panoptic vs. the 22 Nagler T4:

(the envelope please)

In my 4.7" f/8.5 Astro-Physics refractor the 22 Nagler has a slight edge. Both show a bit of field curvature, which could be my worsening accommodation. Possibly.

In my 16" f/7 Newtonian, the 22 Panoptic edges out ahead - it just seems to have a bit - ever so slightly more - contrast to it. Although it has less AFOV, stars at the edge seemed tighter. No field curvature at all, just a touch in the Nagler. The loss in true field is about 8 arc minutes - but I do have a couple of lower power eyepieces to fall back on if I need more field.

The deciding object was M27, the Dumbell Nebula. Both eyepieces presented the nebula as hanging in space, the edges seemed to have a hard definition. But what caught my eye was a chain of stars across the front of the nebula. Four noted in the Nagler, seven seen in the Panoptic. My friend George, Mr. 100 Degree AFOV and collector of ES100 eyepieces, actually liked the Panoptic better.

So in the end, the 22 Panoptic seems better in my primary scope, weighs less, and has no Instadjust. Add to this that 22T4 will fetch twice the price on the used market.

My 22T4 is officially surplus and on the disposal list - a some point. Maybe one more outing just to be sure ....


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SteveG
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/27/06

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6113086 - 10/02/13 12:51 PM

You must not be using a Paracorr.

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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: SteveG]
      #6113383 - 10/02/13 03:34 PM

Quote:

You must not be using a Paracorr.




No, I prefer the longer focal ratios. My last "fast" scope was 10 years ago. I suppose if I was still in the short game and using a Paracorr it could have gone the other way.

I posted immediately after returning from back-to-back long observing sessions. Getting a little more sleep and reflecting on the experience, I used to own a 17T4 and was absolutely in love with it. So when I got the 22T4 last spring I was expecting a wipe-out in the head to head comparison.

But it just didn't happen. Instead, they are quite close with one eyepiece costing twice as much. I could use that money to buy another eyepiece


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Deep13
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6114535 - 10/03/13 03:38 AM

I keep the 22 Pan because the 24 is too close to the 27.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Celebrity Deathmatch: 22 Pan vs. 24 Pan new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6114559 - 10/03/13 05:05 AM

Quote:


No, I prefer the longer focal ratios. My last "fast" scope was 10 years ago. I suppose if I was still in the short game and using a Paracorr it could have gone the other way.




I am in the "short game" with my Newtonians. I have had a 22mm Panoptic for a few years but until recently it did not get much use, I mostly used my 20mm type 2 Nagler. However, I recently acquired a scope that does not balance with the 20mm Type 2 so that has rekindled my interest in the 22mm Panoptic.

A while back I de-skirted it and I have been enjoying the views, even in my F/4.06 (F/4.67 with the Paracorr)... quite clean. My normal eyepieces are the 31mm Nagler and the 20mm type 2 but I finding the 35mm Panoptic and the 22mm make another pair of choices.

Jon


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