Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6264077 - 12/20/13 04:30 PM

Compared to a visual image through a narrowband filter at a dark site, this image:
--displays color you wouldn't see in the visual image.
--displays a seriously compressed gray scale range compared to a visual image. A visual image would have a wider dynamic range.
--has the center area burned out (wouldn't be true in a visual image)
--has a little less than the extent the nebula would have visually (I tracked it out to past 2 degrees visually in my 8" SCT).

But that wouldn't have been true visually with the Moon only a few degrees away.

Anyway, like normal, I'm not impressed. It looks like a rather poor astrophotograph, and it has no resemblance to a visual image. Longer image length would show more, of course.
--


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JustaBoy
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/19/12

Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Starman1]
      #6264142 - 12/20/13 05:02 PM

I want to See it Myself - With my Own Eyes!

Pictures of any kind are only dead representations of reality.

Certainly they have their uses and I like looking at the ones the guys here take, but it's nothing at all like 'being there', looking at the light that has been on a journey of thousands of years. - Just for me.

For you too, If you care to look...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ralph Steudtner
member
*****

Reged: 07/13/12

Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Ps191]
      #6264304 - 12/20/13 06:50 PM

Quote:

ES14mm(100) vs. 13mmT6(82) Nagler

I would still like to hear if any ES14mm-100 owners would part with their ES for a 13mmT6 Nagler or vis versa.





I have both the ES 100/14 and the 13T6. The 13T6 is a fine eyepiece. It is lightweight and shows tack sharp star images across the entire 82 degree fov. When compared to the ES 100/14, however, it just does not have that "WOW" factor for me. If I could only have one of the 2 eyepieces I would definitely choose the ES 100/14. It gets far more time in the focuser than my 13T6.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillP
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6264357 - 12/20/13 07:42 PM

Jeff,

Yes, it can be quite exciting to see some of these targets so brightly rendered. The Mallincam Jr supports S-VHS output which I believe is around twice standard TV resolution. Would be interesting to see its output image in the field on something like a 9" or 12" monitor that can support that resolution level. Would expect it can be quite impressive. No large aperture scope is ever going to show that color visually I am strongly considering the new Jr model as its price point is fabulous! Heck, I have single eyepieces that cost about that much!

Would be an interesting setup to have a dual scope setup, whatever one's normal visual scope is then piggyback a small 80mm or 92mm with a Mallincam on it so one had dual display all the time, eyepiece and screen. It's exciting to think what it will evolve to with the newer chips developed and newer displays.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ps191
super member
*****

Reged: 06/17/09

Loc: E.OR.
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: BillP]
      #6264465 - 12/20/13 08:57 PM

Thanks csrlice12, hfjacinto and Ralph Steudtner for weighing in on the ES14mm(100) vs. the 13mmT6 Nagler, I appreciate you taking the time to help a newbie like me.
At this time I'm planning to try and find a used ES24mm(82) and ES14(100), this sounds like the best view that still fits within my budget. I got a wanted add up - now to find someone willing to sell one or the other, or both. Let the observing begin


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Starman1]
      #6265356 - 12/21/13 02:03 PM

Quote:

Compared to a visual image through a narrowband filter at a dark site, this image:
--displays color you wouldn't see in the visual image.
--displays a seriously compressed gray scale range compared to a visual image. A visual image would have a wider dynamic range.
--has the center area burned out (wouldn't be true in a visual image)
--has a little less than the extent the nebula would have visually (I tracked it out to past 2 degrees visually in my 8" SCT).

But that wouldn't have been true visually with the Moon only a few degrees away.

Anyway, like normal, I'm not impressed. It looks like a rather poor astrophotograph, and it has no resemblance to a visual image. Longer image length would show more, of course.
--




More or less what I concluded too. I'm not exactly rushing out to buy a Mallicam (yet).

But as a "look ahead" it does offer some intriguing things:

1) This was a cell phone camera .jpeg snapshot of a low-res NTSC CRT screen. The live image did look better (somewhat). Just like the early CCD's this detector technology will improve, and getting a higher resolution display will be trivial;

2) It was done from the middle of city;

3) It extends observing into the lunar month. Narrow band filter or not, you wouldn't see those extents visually through the same aperture with the first quarter moon six degrees away; and

4) For those that do outreach it would be an awesome tool. Multiple simultaneous viewers, photopic vision. John Q. Public knows nothing about dark adaptation and threshold vision. (Good thing too, because with Mallicam dark adaptation is out of the question!)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: BillP]
      #6265367 - 12/21/13 02:09 PM

Quote:

Jeff,

Yes, it can be quite exciting to see some of these targets so brightly rendered. The Mallincam Jr supports S-VHS output which I believe is around twice standard TV resolution. Would be interesting to see its output image in the field on something like a 9" or 12" monitor that can support that resolution level. Would expect it can be quite impressive. No large aperture scope is ever going to show that color visually I am strongly considering the new Jr model as its price point is fabulous! Heck, I have single eyepieces that cost about that much!

Would be an interesting setup to have a dual scope setup, whatever one's normal visual scope is then piggyback a small 80mm or 92mm with a Mallincam on it so one had dual display all the time, eyepiece and screen. It's exciting to think what it will evolve to with the newer chips developed and newer displays.




More resolution is definitely needed, I have not looked at the Jr. I didn't realize that had gotten that cheap! I just spent $900 on a Leica ASPH this week.

Not to hijack the thread any further with this electronic eyepiece future stuff, but this time of year the idea of having the scope outside with me and display inside by the fireplace has some real appeal. Brrrrr.


Edited by Jeff Morgan (12/21/13 02:13 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Starman1]
      #6266154 - 12/21/13 10:47 PM

Quote:

True field in the 30mm ES will be 1.64 degrees. That's large enough for most large targets--not quite large enough to see ALL of the Pleiades or North America Nebula or California nebula or Veil nebula, etc., but certainly large enough for just about everything else. And large enough to see major portions of the really big things.

A note to consider, however, is that just about every object in the sky is a degree in diameter or smaller. Purchasing an eyepiece just for the 10-20 objects that are a bit larger seems like it would be a "supplemental" purchase for later, when filling in the "in-between" sizes and magnifications.
The 24mm x 82 ES would yield a true field of 1.28 degrees, which is still very large, and the magnification would be better for a much larger number of objects.




A 40mm 70 AFOV (or 41mm 68 AFOV Panoptic) would provided the widest TFOV for a 2"(48mm) barrell. I had this before I got a 30mm 82 AFOV and used it as my finder eyepiece, I may still be using it slightly more than the 30mm 82 AFOV for the large or multiple objects.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
karstenkoch
sage


Reged: 04/21/12

Loc: GMT+9
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #6266198 - 12/21/13 11:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

To make a comparison like you have suggests you have not seen what people are doing with electronic eyepieces. I'm under the impression that the original poster would be open minded enough to realize that.




I have spent the last 20 years of my 24 years as a professional photographer using digital, far, far longer than most and I am nearly done with it. What I have seen this technology do to people by and large is not good. In fact, I have been on a panel of DC based think tanks for the past 4 years as I did a project that had the unintended consequences of watching people go from having eye contact to being a bunch of rude idiots.

So yeah, I understand what you are talking about...I am 1,000% against it and actually plan to fight it. It's yet one *more* thing to use a device on instead of being tactile in seeing the oldest light of the farthest objects your soul will ever set eyes on.

If someone said they would pay me a million dollars to use gadgets instead of real eyepieces, I would tell them to donate the money to a good charity and get lost!

There is simply no substitute for seeing something with your own two eyes, through a telescope, refracted water, a reflection or otherwise. That is what this hobby is all about, not this new fangled fad of "Photoshopped Photons".




Awesome post!

I've spent a lot of money on scopes, mounts, and eyepieces over the last two years and not one cent of it has included electronics*. What I have bought will never get passed on by new technology. In fact, I'll use it until I'm the one to pass on.

Nothing beats a simple walk through the woods, or through the stars for that matter. It's not a virtual experience I'm after.

*I do have SkySafari on an iPad, but that's not an integral or even necessary part of my viewing kit.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JustaBoy
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/19/12

Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: karstenkoch]
      #6266208 - 12/21/13 11:56 PM

Bless you TechPan and Karsten!

You guys know what it's all about...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6266231 - 12/22/13 12:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

True field in the 30mm ES will be 1.64 degrees. That's large enough for most large targets--not quite large enough to see ALL of the Pleiades or North America Nebula or California nebula or Veil nebula, etc., but certainly large enough for just about everything else. And large enough to see major portions of the really big things.

A note to consider, however, is that just about every object in the sky is a degree in diameter or smaller. Purchasing an eyepiece just for the 10-20 objects that are a bit larger seems like it would be a "supplemental" purchase for later, when filling in the "in-between" sizes and magnifications.
The 24mm x 82 ES would yield a true field of 1.28 degrees, which is still very large, and the magnification would be better for a much larger number of objects.




A 40mm 70 AFOV (or 41mm 68 AFOV Panoptic) would provided the widest TFOV for a 2"(48mm) barrell. I had this before I got a 30mm 82 AFOV and used it as my finder eyepiece, I may still be using it slightly more than the 30mm 82 AFOV for the large or multiple objects.



Sure, but you wouldn't use that in an f/4.9 dob. The exit pupil would be way too large and the secondary shadow might be obtrusive.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6267100 - 12/22/13 03:23 PM

Quote:

More resolution is definitely needed, I have not looked at the Jr. I didn't realize that had gotten that cheap! I just spent $900 on a Leica ASPH this week.

Not to hijack the thread any further with this electronic eyepiece future stuff, but this time of year the idea of having the scope outside with me and display inside by the fireplace has some real appeal. Brrrrr.




The Mallincam Universe delivers a total size of 3032 X 2016. At that resolution one would be splitting hairs comparing the electronic view with visual. There are images made by the Universe on file at the Yahoo Mallincam site.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mallincam/info

-35 C and clear is the forecast for tonight. Not quite that cold in my armchair. A click on my observatory site will explain all.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ps191
super member
*****

Reged: 06/17/09

Loc: E.OR.
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Lorence]
      #6319768 - 01/18/14 01:31 AM

Hi Everyone:

This is a long post but I want to give an update to this thread with a few observations from last night (Jan 16, 2014) using my (new to me) ES 24mm 82deg eyepiece for the first time. Before purchased this eyepiece I spoke with an ES rep on the phone and was impressed with their helpfulness and goal of customer satisfaction. They stand behind their products and – even when they are bought used. As you know I don't have much experience with higher quality, wideview eyepieces, so these thoughts are from a limited perspective and should be “taken with a grain of salt”.

I was using my 12” Orion dob (1500mm FL) which according to the spreedsheet from Starman1's “2013 Eyepiece Buyer's Guide” give a magnification of 63x and a true field of view of 1.31 deg.
I'm not sure how sky steadiness and transparency is defined but here's some thoughts. I've seen worse “twinkle” in stars during the winter at my location but then again I've seen steadier skies too, so lets call it low average of what I'd want to observe in. Late afternoon and early the next morning showed, scatterer high, thin clouds, possibly cirrostratus or leftovers from contrails but during the early part of the night when I observed the clouds where only at the far horizon. As you probably already guessed there was a lot of “light pollution” from the full moon, but this was the best night I've had in awhile and with a new eyepeice I used the opportunity I had. Comparisons where made with the Meade 25mm and no-name 1.125” eyepeieces mentioned in my first post. Telescope was collimate with my newly acquired Astronomics Cheshire/sight tube rather then the sight cap that came with the scope which I've used in the past and while I'm still learning the collimation thing, I believe I was close, if not, on. Temperature was in the low twenties and scope was precooled with box fan for about 30 minutes. Not sure if scope ever reached ambient temp because I could not see any hint of diffraction rings without fan blowing on back of scope and only glimpses of them in between what I assume was atmospheric turbulence. (telescope dons not have built in fans and I have not added any – yet).

Because of the less then ideal conditions I didn't spend a lot of time observing. The objects that got the time were, Sirius, Pleiades, Orion neb and the Moon. Sirius was used with a 9mm Meade eyepiece to check collimation, seeing (or lack thereof) and align the telrad. While the ES 24mm is large and my only experience with 2” eyepieces I did not have any trouble balancing it in my scope, in fact it was easier to balance then some of the lighter eyepieces. A side note is that this scope, even compared to a typical Orion, has less then ideal balance and movement (in both axis). I don't use glasses so eye positioning was easy to find and maintain with no noticed kidney bean. The field stop is seen easily enough when looking for it and I believe I could get close enough to see it all at once. While the field of view is wide and impressive I did not have the feeling that I was going to 'fall into' the view. Stars at the edge of the field show aberrations which I guess is coma since I don't use a coma corrector. While not to bothersome and almost ignorable (my perspective) it was noticed and will take father evaluation to decide if its expectable or if I'll need to start looking for a coma corrector.

The Orion nebula was beautiful and impressive. The trapezoid, with stars A through D, was clearly seen and possibly a glimpse of E through the less then idea seeing conditions. With the excess moon light, it seemed that I could see as much nebulosity in the Meade 25mm as the ES 24mm, although I would guess under darker skies the nebulosity would extend beyond the field of view shown in the Meade. The ES did a wonderful job framing the view and giving the perfect perspective and perspective is everything when it comes to enjoying the view. The view alone of the Orion neb made the price of admission worth it.

With the ES eyepiece the Pleiades cluster had a lot of stars in the field of view compared to either of the 1.25” format eyepiece. It began to have the open star cluster feel although it was missing the perspective seen in the Orion neb. And while good I'm still looking for that perfect, in between view of my previous eyepieces and my 10x50 binoculars. That said, I think there is enough there to see some nebulosity under darker skies. I look forward to revisiting this star cluster with ES 24mm and will not miss the 'soda straw view of two or three stars' seen with previous eyepieces. I'm guessing it will take a different telescope, like a 6” f5 refracter, to really make this eyepiece shine with the Pleiades. Oh well, I guess I need an excuse to dream about the iStar 6” f5

It took me but a couple of seconds viewing the moon to realize that while the wide field is nice for viewing the moon this not a lunar eyepiece and is best left to deepsky objects. On axis and close to the center the view was great but let the moon wonder close to the edge and it turned into a rainbow of color. Has anyone else notice this problem? I'll try again with a not so full moon and see what I think, but this eyepiece has not removed my long term goal of a quality set of lunar/planetary eyepieces.

Objects that I want to cover in the future include, Beehive, Andromeda galx, and a few other larger star clusters and galaxies. I would also like to check the color problem with Jupiter and revisit the few objects I viewed, especially the Orion neb. Overall I'm happy with my initial experience with the ES 24mm 82 deg. At this time I'm not planning to sell this eyepiece but look forward to many future nights of wonderful viewing. Now I can't wait to get my hands on a used copy of the ES 14mm 100 deg (or 82 deg) to enjoy a closer view of planetary neb's & globular clusters.

Thanks for all the advice and help Get out there and enjoy your astronomical observation


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Time to ask the experts new [Re: Ps191]
      #6320463 - 01/18/14 12:59 PM

". On axis and close to the center the view was great but let the moon wonder close to the edge and it turned into a rainbow of color. Has anyone else notice this problem?"

I think everyone has!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
10 registered and 27 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  ausastronomer, Scott in NC, iceblaze 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 1413

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics