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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Dave M
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Masuyama`s
      #748617 - 12/27/05 06:17 PM Attachment (446 downloads)

Being that the old thread "What do we know about Masuyama`s" by Larry Sayre encountered a glitch i thought ide attempt to start a new one.
I recall there being alot of ?`s about the history and design
of the Masuyama eyepiece`s that to this day still remain a mystery.
Well! here`s my Masuyama 25mm 65* wide angle, this eyepiece was just aquired for me by my Great friend Hiro in Japan, the 25mm Wide is a pretty rare find today, even in Japan.
The eyepiece is mint as is the original box ..
I cant wait to do some viewing and testing on this one.
Oh! Yea, i`m one happy camper...

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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Dave M
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Dave M]
      #748620 - 12/27/05 06:19 PM Attachment (309 downloads)

And an image of my only other Masuyama, the 30mm 52*

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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Kieken
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Dave M]
      #748872 - 12/27/05 09:25 PM

To be honest, I've never heard of these EPs. Can you give some extra information about them?

--------------------
WO Megrez 110 ED on Vixen Sphinx
Celestron 12" Starhopper
Celestron 80/900 Powerseeker
4.5" Newton on regreased EQ-2
D40x / Nikkor AF-S 18-55 / Nikkor AF-S 55-200 / Tamron AF 28-200mm Super II Macro


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Lawrence Sayre
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Dave M]
      #748873 - 12/27/05 09:25 PM Attachment (234 downloads)

Your 25 mm wide-field (65 deg. AFOV) is indeed rare. The regular 1.25" x 52 deg. AFOV 5 element true Masuyama's are in and of themselves quite rare and hard to come by, but this one is indeed a great find that will certainly climb in value almost 'astronomically' (ahem) as the years go by.

I nearly burned myself out researching and posting my findings here on CN awhile back in the thread you reference, but something of a tiff came up (the details of which I will not publicly discuss at all, so please don't ask) and as a result I asked to be completely 100% expunged from CN, and sadly they fully obliged. With this my entire input to my own thread about the history of the Masuyama went "poof". BTW, we did make up, and as you can tell I did come back!! :-)

Much of what I learned about the Masuyama's came from glossing through old records from long past public internet forum postings (most from well before CN was even conceived, with some dating to as early as 1993). Many of the old timers I got bits and pieces of info from actually freq this site, so I must give credit where it is due, and I defer to them to come forward again and re-contribute this knowledge right here in this Masuyama thread. In no particular order, I toss out a few names of those contributors I tapped from in the past:

"Ed T" knows a bunch about the particular subject of the 'ATM' (pronounced 'ATOM') company which exclusively retailed the Masuyama eyepieces in Japan, and I believe he freq's this site on occasion, so I would welcome his input here to expound on this aspect of the saga of the Masuyama, and whatever else he can enlighten us with as well.

Among others who 'freq' here and have some pieces of knowledge of the Masuyama saga are Thomas M. Back (TMB), whom I came across telling of them in a 1993 dated public file on the Usenet.

Pete Rasmussen is another old internet friend with much to tell regarding Masuyama, and he pops in here on occasion as well.

The two Dave's I always seem to confuse, Dave Mitsky and Dave Bush, also both have much knowledge of the history of Masuyama, and I believe that both freq. this forum as well.

Roland Christen (of Astro Physics) and Markus Ludes (of ATM [note, a different ATM]) have knowledge of Masuyama which might be a bit hard to extract (I couldn't get either of them to talk), but my knowledge of their Masuyama involvement came as a result of a rather comical public internet forum tiff between them over exclusive rights to a binoviewer, in which Roland finally asked Marcus if his binoviewer was made by Masuyama as Roland's offering was. Yet more proof that Masuyama still lives, as of at least not too far into the past....

Based on old internet forum posts, Gary Hand (of Hands On Optics) also has info he can relay to us as well.

Many have bits and pieces of the story, and all (including those many names I have forgotten to make mention of here) are welcomed to chime in and help us unravel the mystery of the Masuyama.

Of course (last but not least) my optical guru Bratislav Curcic could not be left out. Here I quote him from an old public Usenet forum discussion in regard to the Masuyama's:

"they have about the best polish of all commercial eyepieces I've seen (I haven't seen new Zeiss ones), excellent coating (not as good as Pentax I have to admit), pure glass (less yellow than Claves) and excellent mechanical design. In friend's 6" f/11 APO they so clearly outperformed Naglers on AND off axis...."

And another Bratsilav quote: "I have to admit that it took me more than one night to convince myself of superiority of Masuyama over Tanny (as sold by UO) Orthos."

One last Bratislav quote (for now at least): "I was told that Masuyama was taken over by Takahashi, and will not make Masuyama eyepieces anymore (as they already have a line of top quality eyepieces anyway). RIP Masuyama, with Clave, Zeiss and other top eyepieces ..."

BTW, I've conversed with Bratislav Curcic via email quite recently and invited him to participate here on CN, but he stated that he has 100% retired from all participation in public forums. He did however take the time to calculate for me the precise degree of Hyperbolic figure to apply to my 30" f/4.1 mirror, for permanent use with a Baader MPCC coma corrector (which he completely reverse engineered), but that is another story...

Here are the specs for all of the known Masuyama's:

--------------------
My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')


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Dave M
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Kieken]
      #748922 - 12/27/05 09:59 PM

Quote:

To be honest, I've never heard of these EPs. Can you give some extra information about them?




I wish i could, the Masuyama eyepieces are no longer made
and can only be aquired if your lucky enough to find them on the used market.

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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Tom L

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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Dave M]
      #748951 - 12/27/05 10:11 PM

YOu need a pair of them for binoviewing!

Larry, that was a sad chapter...I so enjoyed that thread and it is the reason I am one extremely happy Tak LE (7.5 and 5)owner... I sure wish someone had captured that thread...it was a good 'un...

--------------------
Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount


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Lawrence Sayre
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Tom L]
      #748983 - 12/27/05 10:42 PM

Much thanks for my ongoing inspiration regarding the Masuyama's must also go to Walter Locke (another CN'er, who has gotten some info regarding their designer from a friend in Japan) who inspired me by loaning me a couple of his Masuyama's along with a couple of his Tak LE's, so I could test them head to head, and also against my Celestron Ultima and Antares Elites. Ditto to Dave M, who let me test his 30mm Masuyama against Walter's 30mm Tak LE, and with whom I look forward to testing his 25mm wide-field Masuyama soon.

--------------------
My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')


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ngc6475
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Lawrence Sayre]
      #749010 - 12/27/05 11:05 PM Attachment (278 downloads)

Lawrence performed a very extensive comparison of the Masuyamas with several similar EPs, including Tak LEs. My opinion is that the Masuyamas are generally brighter and as sharp as the Tak LEs. I believe Lawrence came up with results that were very close, if I remember correctly. This points to the overall quality of this eyepiece, as Tak LEs are generally well respected EPs.

I am attaching a snapshot of a 45mm Masuyama next to a 50mm Tak LE. I sold this one, but I still have a 7mm and 15mm Masuyama.

--------------------
Walter

"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
-Mark Twain



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Lawrence Sayre
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: ngc6475]
      #749048 - 12/27/05 11:27 PM

A 100 mm Masuyama is proudly used to this day by none other than the Mount Wilson Observatory, on their 60" Reflector. This one however (I believe, having never seen it it person) is a professional 4" version. One observers comment was that this eyepiece is about roughly the size of a 90mm Meade ETX Telescope.

--------------------
My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')


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square_pegAdministrator
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Lawrence Sayre]
      #749132 - 12/28/05 12:49 AM

That explains the 1700g. Might cause some balance issues in my scope.

--------------------
Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
SVP 100 f/6 achro
WO 66 Petzval
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals




History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides


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jwaldo
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: square_peg]
      #749176 - 12/28/05 01:53 AM

If anyone ever comes across a 60mm Masuyama, please let me know. That'd give me 16x in my C102 and 8x in my ZS66

--------------------
-Jim

DHQ 8"
C102 w/ upgraded focuser
ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet
DSH 6"
Transporter 70
Sears 60/900mm
10x50's & assorted other binos



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Dave M
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Lawrence Sayre]
      #749321 - 12/28/05 07:07 AM

Sounds like a plan Larry, as soon as we get some clear sky
then let the testing begine

Walter, that 45mm sure looked nice, glad you hung onto the
7mm and 15mm.
Umm! Tom, i`ll order up a second 25mm Wide tomorrow...great
idea..

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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Starman1
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Dave M]
      #749541 - 12/28/05 10:57 AM

If I recall from the earlier discussion on Cloudy Nights, the eyepieces that fall into the "pseudo-Masuyama" class are:
Antares Elite Plossl
Orion Ultrascopic
Celestron Ultima
Parks Gold Series Plossl
Omcon Ultima
Takahashi LE
Baader Eudiascopic
Though some are still available, I have recently read about the discontinuance of the Celestron Ultima and Parks Gold Series. It seems few customers are willing to pay for superior images anymore, unless the label on the eyepiece says TeleVue or Pentax. Admittedly, the inexpensive Chinese Plossls have gotten better, and I have seen sale prices as low as $7.50 per eyepiece!, but I am still sad, nonetheless, to see (on the horizon) the eventual passing of this great design.

What I'd like to see is some real competition for TeleVue in the 80+ degree field class of eyepieces.

--------------------
Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie


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Lawrence Sayre
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Starman1]
      #749615 - 12/28/05 11:34 AM

Here is a snipit I just grabbed from the "O'Neil Photo and Optical Inc." web site (Joseph O'Neil, Canada):

"A note about eyepieces. Orion Ultrascopic, Antares Ultimas and Celestron Ultimas all come from the same factory in Japan. Orion Sirus and Omcon Super Plossls come from the same factory in Taiwan. Speers-Walers are Japanese cut lenses, but assembled in Canada by Sky Instruments and are Canadian designed."

http://www.oneilphoto.on.ca/oneil-ep.htm

In direct support of this here is an old quote I saved from Markus Ludes (of 'ATM Telescopes' in Germany):

"As I know correctly, the celestron Ultima, the Orion Ultrascopic, the Baader Eudiaskopic, the Takahashis LE (excapt5 and7.5) and the older Masuyamas are made by the same factory with nearly same optical design, therefore no wonder, they perform so similar. The most important diffrent between this eyepieces are the printed labels, the prices, the housings and the coatings. Any of this diffrent eyepieces will make you happy for shure.
Markus"

I agree with Don's 'psudo' Masuyama list on all but perhaps the Omcon Ultima's, but only because I have never heard of an Omcon Ultima. I add to the list a couple others in the discontinued category:

Meade Series 4000 Super Plossl (5 element, pre ~1998)
Tuthill Premium Plossl

It is sad to see that the distributors and/or retailers are one by one (and in somewhat rapid succession it appears) discontinuing the 'pseudo' Masuyama's. This might mean (worst case senario) that the manufacturer has stopped (or has announced an upcoming stop to, or a major scale back in) production. Or perhaps a price increase to the distributor(s) right at a time when the Chinese eyepieces are coming into their own, in line with Don's thinking!

--------------------
My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')


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Dave M
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Lawrence Sayre]
      #749658 - 12/28/05 12:03 PM

This might seem a bit of a off the wall ? but was there
any ads in Astronomy or Sky & Tel magazine for the Masuyama
eyepieces, wasnt these eyepieces last offered back in the
late 80`s.
I was just curious as i have no Sky & Tel before the mid 90`s.

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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Lawrence Sayre
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Dave M]
      #749674 - 12/28/05 12:14 PM

As I recall they were gone from the market by about 1989. Any magazine ad would have to be from roughly 1980 (or perhaps a bit before) through perhaps 1989, but these magazines cater primarily to the USA and Canada market, and I believe this line of eyepieces was never direct marketed to the USA or Canada.

Does anyone recall a retailer offering the Masuyama line of eyepieces in the USA or Canada?

Does anyone recall the first year of availability for the Tak LE series? (as I believe there 'may' be a connection between when the Tak LE's came out, and when the Masuyama's dissapeared)

--------------------
My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')


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Dave M
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Re: Masuyama`s new [Re: Lawrence Sayre]
      #749695 - 12/28/05 12:26 PM

Quote:

A 100 mm Masuyama is proudly used to this day by none other than the Mount Wilson Observatory, on their 60" Reflector. This one however (I believe, having never seen it it person) is a professional 4" version. One observers comment was that this eyepiece is about roughly the size of a 90mm Meade ETX Telescope.




And here`s a link to a image taken through the 100mm Masuyama.
http://www.astronet.ru:8105/db/msg/1200502

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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square_pegAdministrator
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Re: Masuyama`s [Re: Dave M]
      #749827 - 12/28/05 02:34 PM Attachment (158 downloads)

I just spent some time at archive.org looking for a cached version of that old Masuyama thread. I couldn't fine it, but I did find this, a page from back when Ron Boe only had 401 posts!

--------------------
Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
SVP 100 f/6 achro
WO 66 Petzval
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals




History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides

Edited by square_peg 114GT (12/28/05 02:38 PM)


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Dave M
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Re: Masuyama`s [Re: square_peg]
      #749901 - 12/28/05 03:52 PM

I dug up this info on the Masuyamas...
.......

>Re : Masuyamas

Bratislav's comment prompted me to phone "StarBase Tokyo"(=EX. ATOM.)
(By the way, Masuyama was/is a "house brand" of ATOM. And Takahashi
had taken over ATOM upon the bankruptcy.)
Actual maker of the Masuyamas(and "equivalents" - there was a thread on this subject in s.a.a.) is still going (I hope!) strong.
Anyways, I was told that few Masuyamas are still available. Especially:
Masuyama 60
AFOV: 45deg
eyerelief: 46.7mm
weight: 845g
OTA attachment: 50.8mm sleeve
price: 30,000yen

Unfortunately, 80mm/34deg/50.3mm/1100g/50.8mm and 100mm/46deg/34mm/1700g/??thread??
were sold out.
As far as I know, There are no "equivalents" for Masuyama 60/80/100.
Best Regards, Nozomu Muto
--
Nozomu Muto(Mr.) c/o Subaru Software Inc.
1-2-1-902 Sinjuku, Sinjuku, Tokyo 160, Japan

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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Mike Hosea
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Re: Masuyama`s [Re: Dave M]
      #749910 - 12/28/05 03:59 PM

Quote:


And here`s a link to a image taken through the 100mm Masuyama.
http://www.astronet.ru:8105/db/msg/1200502




The caption says that the 100mm is a Masuyama Kellner.

--------------------
Mike
  • 7" f/6.7 home-built planetary Newt
  • 35mm Panoptic
  • 13mm Ethos
  • 5mm Tak LE
  • 2x TV Barlow
  • Canon 10x30IS Binoculars


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