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shark-bait
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Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope!
      #3164718 - 06/15/09 09:15 PM

In a previous post Nightfly suggested a guide scope that is approximately twice the focal length of the imaging scope. I have a Powermate X2.5. According to this recommendation I need a guiding scope of about 800mm but can't find anything in my budget that will work. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

--------------------
The telescope... man's second best invention.
--------------------------------------------------
Meade LXD75 SN10 f/4(JMI focuser; EV-3n)
Orion 80 f/11.4
Meade DS2114-LNT f/8.8
Oberwerk 11x70mm binocs
Olympus OM1(1-8 screen)
Canon 10D
Naglers/Pentax XW/Meade 5000 EPs


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ClownFishModerator
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3165149 - 06/16/09 02:41 AM

Any cheapo WalMart refractor should do it. Most have focal lengths above 800mm. All you need are mounting rings.

I bought THIS ONE from Orion and realkly liked it, but it is pricey even though it comes with all mounting accessories and an illunminated reticle.

CF

--------------------



Learn all about Polar Alignment and Manual Guiding on my website at www.PetesAstrophotography.com! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!


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TxStars
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Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 561
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3165264 - 06/16/09 07:12 AM

look on A-mart for a used scope

--------------------
http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: TxStars]
      #3165327 - 06/16/09 08:11 AM

ClownFish. Since you use the SN8, do you guide with only the reticle that came with the scope or do you use a barlow to double the focal length? I have considered that very package but concerned about weight issues on the LXD75 mount with the SN10.

Thanks!

--------------------
The telescope... man's second best invention.
--------------------------------------------------
Meade LXD75 SN10 f/4(JMI focuser; EV-3n)
Orion 80 f/11.4
Meade DS2114-LNT f/8.8
Oberwerk 11x70mm binocs
Olympus OM1(1-8 screen)
Canon 10D
Naglers/Pentax XW/Meade 5000 EPs


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ClownFishModerator
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3165362 - 06/16/09 08:46 AM

I used a 2x Barlow.

IMHO, the SN10 is too heavy for the LDX75 anyway, so adding more will make balance that more critical. Would I try it? Certainly. Would I expect it to be easy.. no.

CF

--------------------



Learn all about Polar Alignment and Manual Guiding on my website at www.PetesAstrophotography.com! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: ClownFish]
      #3165466 - 06/16/09 09:54 AM

I'll give it a whirl. I've noticed that you keep referring to that scope in the past tense; do you still use it?

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ClownFishModerator
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3165565 - 06/16/09 10:50 AM

When I left South Africa I knew it would be many years before I again was assigned to dark skies, so i sold it to a South African. They can't buy them there, unless they are willing to pay 2 or 3 times the cost! So I sold my complete system to a fellow Cloudy Nights member who happens to live full-time in a country with the darkest skies on Earth. Better he use it, than have it sit in storage for 3 to 5 years.

HERE is the last photo taken with the scope - The globular cluster Omega Centauri or NGC 5139.

And HERE is the last photo taken of the scope, along with my Scope Monkey.

CF

--------------------



Learn all about Polar Alignment and Manual Guiding on my website at www.PetesAstrophotography.com! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: ClownFish]
      #3165862 - 06/16/09 01:49 PM

Amazing photos! I never thought that I would say this to another guy but I like your monkey. "You know what I mean!"

When looking at your gallery I noticed that the majority of your photos were shot with Provia 400. Do you prefer that film over E200? I have my first 2 rolls of E200 in the fridge and can't wait to try them. Is it possible to achieve the focus you have in your photos w/o a Stilleto? I have a 1-8 focusing screen.

I don't want to be a nusance but you are the only person I've chatted with that used a similar setup as what I have. (OM-1 and SN scope)

Thanks again!


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Nebhunter
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Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1323
Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3166309 - 06/16/09 05:56 PM

I've also used Provia 400 but the F type which recorded the important reds. The newer X does poorly in red - so it's out for Milky Way nebulae for MOST shots. If you are going after Dark Nebulae - the Barnard or LDN list - I would think Provia X would work well, plus on star fields - globs and open.
Strong in the blue and green spectrum.

But you have 2 rolls of E200 - probably the best all round film and great red response. Shoot it - if ya got it.

Focusing is very difficult at prime. I had the Stiletto for my 35mm OM-1 and it sure made life easier. Click it on - focus out the Ronchi bars - click it off, and put on the camera. Frame and shoot.

I was out last night and have been trying to get some shots with my Tec 140 and auto guider. The Pentax 67 has a bright focusing screen, plus I have the 2x magnifier to help with critical focus. I probably spent 15 minutes sitting on the ground sheet - leaning against the chair which has wheels which did not help - with my head trying to angle in looking up in a "crinked" position. Trying to hold your head steady in this position is not easy. Neck muscles tire quickly, and you also have one hand extended above your head fiddling with the fine focus knob. This should be an Olympic event. You can't appreciate the difficulty until you have tried it. Once you "think" you have good focus you will find that there is probably a 1/8 turn either way which also looks good in the view finder.

That 1/8th turn can make critical focus - or turn it in to OK focus - but you won't know until you get the film developed. I'm going to try the new "Batnikov" mask - or how ever you spell it. Works well with a CCD camera - but may be too dim for a view finder. Worth a try for 20 bucks.

Did I finally get a shot? NO. High cloud layers came and went - flopping on the ground sheet like a fish out of water - imitating a primate with eye pressed against the eyepiece with both arms extended up cranking the adjusting bolts on the rings to centre the guide star. Looked like a monkey hanging off a tire swing. Finally get that focused in - and then dial in the ST-4 guider. Finally, and I mean FINALLY - I'm ready. Press the cable release - mirror up button and up goes the mirror with a reassuring clack sound - press the shutter button and - NOTHING. Now what? Try this - try that - nothing. Put a battery in the 67 - nothing. The other 67 is loaded with HP5 but it's B&W - and I'm trying for Antares RHO so I need the E200.

I must over come and get a shot, so change targets to an LDN object and get the other 67. But wait - why do I see shadows in the field. Out buildings have a glow behind them - yes - the rising moon. The rising "street light" which puts and end to a valiant attempt. Crash and burn. Icing on the cake was a very heavy dew last night. Water is streaming from everything and completely soaked with dew. Dew straps keep the lenses dry thankfully.

The adventures continue - and may you also experience the "joys" of this hobby.

Igor

--------------------
StarGeezer
Elemental nature must be approached with a reverential lens ~ Ansel Adams

http://www.nightfly.zoomshare.com/ www.pbase.com/pentax67
TEC 140 (Katyusha) & F/F - Equinox 80 - Losmandy G11/Gemini - ST-4 guider. PENTAX 67ii - 400(EDif) & siblings. I shoot FILM.


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Nightfly
sage


Reged: 06/20/07
Posts: 481
Loc: Sullivan, Maine
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #3166468 - 06/16/09 07:18 PM

Igor,

Sorry to hear about your shooting practice last night. I have not had trouble, because I have not been out! Dang weather. Clear tonight however, may shoot the last frame in my 67 as it has Ektar 100 in it. For this film forty minutes f/4 for test shot. Got to try something new now and then.

Shark-bait, If you got lenses to shoot with try one of those piggyback on your scope. Use your scope as your guide scope. Piggyback with camera lenses is so rewarding, that it's all I do. Not only rewarding, but easy! Right Igor?!

--------------------
Nightfly Astrophotography

Sullivan, Maine, USA
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/12598495@N08


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3166563 - 06/16/09 08:15 PM

Igor,
And I thought I had tough luck... way to hang in there. Thanks for sharing your evening.

Nightfly,
I don't yet have a way to piggyback my camera but I will surely figure it out. Do you have any suggestions? I havn't been able to get a scope out in weeks due to weather patterns on the west-central coast of Florida. I sneek a peek w/ binocs when I can. Hopefully it will clear soon.


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Nightfly
sage


Reged: 06/20/07
Posts: 481
Loc: Sullivan, Maine
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3166687 - 06/16/09 09:57 PM

I noticed Meade does not sell one for that model. It looks like a dovetail rail mounted to the top of the two tube rings and a adjustable mount could slide on it.

Igor, your the german equatorial mount man around here, what could you come up with?

--------------------
Nightfly Astrophotography

Sullivan, Maine, USA
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/12598495@N08


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Nebhunter
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1323
Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3166893 - 06/17/09 12:03 AM

Using lenses is easy - oh yea. Point and shoot.

Igor

--------------------
StarGeezer
Elemental nature must be approached with a reverential lens ~ Ansel Adams

http://www.nightfly.zoomshare.com/ www.pbase.com/pentax67
TEC 140 (Katyusha) & F/F - Equinox 80 - Losmandy G11/Gemini - ST-4 guider. PENTAX 67ii - 400(EDif) & siblings. I shoot FILM.


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Nebhunter
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1323
Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3166931 - 06/17/09 12:29 AM

Eq mounts - yes - SN's - nope. But the tube rings are a common denominator between refractors or SN's. Typically one ring would have the threaded bolt sticking up with a lock nut underneath to which one would attach a camera body. OK for an OM-1 and 50 lens, but not overly stable.

If the other ring has a hole in it as well - which most do, and is also threaded for a 1/4 x 20 bolt. You can probably buy a plate (DUP) or make one out of aluminium. Drill 2 holes to fit the distance between the rings. The "boss" on the top of the rings should provide a wide enough surface for good support. Bolt the plate down. Drill a few holes down the length of the piece where you can move the camera for better balance with different lenses. Put a 1/4 x 20 bolt from underneath into the camera tripod hole. There is enough space between the bottom of this plate and the top of the scope tube for a box wrench to tighten it. Bolt stays put, as it's too long to fall out. Put some heavy tape on the scope to prevent scratches from the bolt and wrench. A hole at the front for the 50 lens so you don't "see" the scope in the shot. Just thinking out loud here.

Igor

--------------------
StarGeezer
Elemental nature must be approached with a reverential lens ~ Ansel Adams

http://www.nightfly.zoomshare.com/ www.pbase.com/pentax67
TEC 140 (Katyusha) & F/F - Equinox 80 - Losmandy G11/Gemini - ST-4 guider. PENTAX 67ii - 400(EDif) & siblings. I shoot FILM.


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ClownFishModerator
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #3167560 - 06/17/09 11:09 AM

If I remember, the bolt holes on the LXD75 tube rings are not 1/4 x 20, but a metric pitch very close to that. I remember taking the rings to Home Depot and finding the exact size, as the 1/4 x 20 only threaded about two turns before stopping. The chinese "melted pop-can" aluminum is VERY soft, and you can strip the threads on that mount very easily. Be careful!

CF

--------------------



Learn all about Polar Alignment and Manual Guiding on my website at www.PetesAstrophotography.com! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: ClownFish]
      #3167714 - 06/17/09 12:35 PM

It shouldn't be too hard to come up with something. I'll let you know what I concoct. The only issue I have is this place that I spend 70hrs a week at called work. I don't have alot of free time during the day. This is why I took up astronomy...I can do it at night.

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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
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Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3167747 - 06/17/09 12:48 PM

Quote:

When looking at your gallery I noticed that the majority of your photos were shot with Provia 400. Do you prefer that film over E200? I have my first 2 rolls of E200 in the fridge and can't wait to try them. Is it possible to achieve the focus you have in your photos w/o a Stilleto? I have a 1-8 focusing screen.

I don't want to be a nusance but you are the only person I've chatted with that used a similar setup as what I have. (OM-1 and SN scope)

Thanks again!




ClownFish, BTW...Provia 400 or E200?


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ClownFishModerator
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3167757 - 06/17/09 12:53 PM

I liked both, but Fuji 400F Provia is longer being made.
E200 has finer grain and better red response.
Fuji 400F Provia had better blue response and had less Reciprocity failure.
I still have three rolls of the now extinct 400F in my freezer.
Someday.. I will again have dark skies and use it up with pleasure!

E200 is an outstanding Astro film. I highly recommend it.

CF

--------------------



Learn all about Polar Alignment and Manual Guiding on my website at www.PetesAstrophotography.com! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: ClownFish]
      #3167996 - 06/17/09 03:08 PM

Will I be O.K. using a 2.5 Powermate with that Orion guiding package?

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tommyhawk13
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Reged: 09/28/07
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3168291 - 06/17/09 05:41 PM

I've seen some Meade 80mm refractors that have the same focal length on ebay for dirt cheap. I think the seller is scopehed? (telescope-warehouse)
The good deal with the orion package is that it comes with the rings, dovetail, and the 5mm reticle.
Using a 2.5x barlow with that reticle would be too much in my opinion. Some guide stars are barely visible without it. If you were using a 12mm reticle on the other hand...

--------------------



Meade Starfinder 8,Meade SN-8 OTA, Orion Atlas, and a handfull of film cameras


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shark-bait
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Reged: 06/01/09
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Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: tommyhawk13]
      #3168793 - 06/17/09 10:21 PM

I think I'll just suck it up and buy another barlow. Having seen the results with that setup, I would be a fool not to clone what is proven.

Thanks for the tip.


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
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Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: tommyhawk13]
      #3170091 - 06/18/09 05:06 PM

According to Orion, that scope's highest useful magnification is X182 and is achieved using the 5mm reticle. By using a barlow you would effectively be doubling the recommended magnification. If I used a 12mm reticle instead and used my X2.5 Powermate the magnification would be within the scopes specs and I would have achieved doubling the focal length of my imaging scope. Will that work as well?

--------------------
The telescope... man's second best invention.
--------------------------------------------------
Meade LXD75 SN10 f/4(JMI focuser; EV-3n)
Orion 80 f/11.4
Meade DS2114-LNT f/8.8
Oberwerk 11x70mm binocs
Olympus OM1(1-8 screen)
Canon 10D
Naglers/Pentax XW/Meade 5000 EPs


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ClownFishModerator
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Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3170966 - 06/19/09 04:36 AM

yes, that is what I did.

--------------------



Learn all about Polar Alignment and Manual Guiding on my website at www.PetesAstrophotography.com! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!


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shark-bait
super member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 172
Loc: New Port Richey, FL USA
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: tommyhawk13]
      #3235252 - 07/23/09 10:42 PM

I just received my previously enjoyed guidescope, new AstroTech diagonal, and new Meade 12mm reticle today; the rings should be in tomorrow. It's kind of like Xmas again. I got a great deal on an Orion 80mm on Ebay($35.00 +S/H). Can't wait to put it to good use.

Thanks for all of the good advice.

--------------------
The telescope... man's second best invention.
--------------------------------------------------
Meade LXD75 SN10 f/4(JMI focuser; EV-3n)
Orion 80 f/11.4
Meade DS2114-LNT f/8.8
Oberwerk 11x70mm binocs
Olympus OM1(1-8 screen)
Canon 10D
Naglers/Pentax XW/Meade 5000 EPs


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Nightfly
sage


Reged: 06/20/07
Posts: 481
Loc: Sullivan, Maine
Re: I need a guide to guide me to a guide scope! new [Re: shark-bait]
      #3236598 - 07/24/09 07:01 PM

Excellent, let us know how you make out.

--------------------
Nightfly Astrophotography

Sullivan, Maine, USA
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/12598495@N08


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