Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Astrophotography and Sketching >> Film Astrophotography

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
highfnum
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/06/06

Loc: NE USA
Current state of affairs in Film
      #3935704 - 07/21/10 03:09 PM

I kinda skip from eyepiece to CCD and II's

1) Why is film still being used - what are advantages at this time?
2) Does anyone in this forum still use Schmidt camera's
3) Is it going to become totaly impossible in a few years get film developed?

I have poked around in this forum and some of you guys have taken great shots


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tommyhawk13
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 09/28/07

Loc: Jacksonville, Fl
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3935750 - 07/21/10 03:34 PM

1) I can use the camera I already have, and not run up a credit card, or sell off everything I own to buy a decent laptop and ccd rig. I'm kind of stubborn about old technology anyway, it's simple. My guitar amplifiers run on vacuum tubes, and the car I love to tinker on has a carburetor, if that sheds any light.

2) Not that I've seen, but I see them on the net a couple of times.

3) I doubt it. There are mail order services, diy systems available to process color film at home, and there are plenty of film users worldwide.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3935916 - 07/21/10 05:13 PM

What Tommy said.

Lenses can, and will, outperform telescopes - of a given aperture. But the real thing is what Tommy said about our character. Film suits our nature. We need nothing more, and will develop our own when the time comes.

Did someone mention something about our character?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #3936044 - 07/21/10 06:32 PM

I shoot film because I like it, plain and simple. The creativity I do with film is between me, the lens, and the emulsion. The camera houses the film and focus the light of my selected lens. I try to use post processing very conservatively. For me, more manipulation equals less credibility and authenticity. But that is just me. I admire many things digital can do. I am a big fan of the medium. In time I will try my hand at it, but for now, I like film.

Processing? There are lots of places processing film, but probably not in small town America. I have a local Walgreens that just opened up and they put in film processing equipment. I can take all my C-41 35MM to them and they do a fantastic job.

For E-6, I send to a custom Lab out of state and they cater to professional artists. I asked them how things were going and they noted a decline, but also that they have a steady flow from many folks who are staying the course, and thriving!

Film will be around for a long time. Movies will be made on film for at least another 10 years because digital can't yet cut it on the big screen. Someday perhaps.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gasgiant9
member


Reged: 11/13/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3936082 - 07/21/10 07:03 PM

Yes, I am technologically challenged. But that is not why I shoot film (that's my story and I'm sticking to it). Film just suits me. There is a beautiful simplicity to it. One of the biggest kicks I get out of the hobby is just looking up naked eye at the Milky Way. I also love to take astrophotos. The wide field shots that I can take with my humble equipment comes pretty close to that vision of the sky. I don't need to lug a computer around and I don't need any focusing programs or the like. I even enjoy manually guiding the telescope for up to 40 minutes at a time (really). When I finish the shot I feel like I've accomplished something and the results are good enough for me. There is no denying the quality of a good digital astrophoto and my hat is off to all of the great CN digital imagers. They do amazing stuff and that medium obviously dominates the hobby. At TSP or Okie-Tex I am probably the only imager there still shooting film. But all of us filmsters are probably cut from the same cloth in terms of why we choose to continue to shoot film. It suits us and the results are good enough for what we want to accomplish. Just like anything else, you have to figure out what you want from the hobby and determine which type of imaging will give you what you want for the effort that it will take.

To all of you still shooting film, please keep sharing your images!

Gary Nielsen
Littleton, Colorado


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Gasgiant9]
      #3936092 - 07/21/10 07:12 PM

Gary,

I would call you being the only film shooter at the TSP and Okie-Tex a distinction!

As with all photography, it comes down to your personal aesthetics. Plus, we can't get cought up in upgrading every two years. A new "sensor" is just a roll away.......


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3936099 - 07/21/10 07:18 PM

Oh yea, film has no color noise, I hate dslr color noise............

I can't believe it when I see it on the pages of those astronomy magazines. Oh yea, this is better?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gasgiant9
member


Reged: 11/13/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3936197 - 07/21/10 08:22 PM

Jim,

You make an excellent point. Once you begin chasing the technology it's hard to stop.

Gary Nielsen
Littleton, Colorado


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Gasgiant9]
      #3936309 - 07/21/10 09:31 PM

Just a few reasons I like film.

Best viewed on 1280x1024 monitor in a dimly lit room.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12598495@N08/sets/72157622943442650/show/

Click on the "Full Screen" icon on lower right for best viewing.

Most of these I have taken within the last 9 months on E200 and Provia 100F film.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Suk Lee
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/07/03

Loc: Pleasanton, CA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3936339 - 07/21/10 09:48 PM

Those were SO wonderful.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
highfnum
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/06/06

Loc: NE USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Suk Lee]
      #3936882 - 07/22/10 08:32 AM

good point about noise

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
highfnum
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/06/06

Loc: NE USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3936890 - 07/22/10 08:35 AM

does anyone still use cold camera

I notice some people srill hyper film


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
WillCarney
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/08/09

Loc: Bloomington, ILL
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3937226 - 07/22/10 11:41 AM

One thing about film is the time. While I am testing DSLR imaging it takes way too long. I took hours of pictures and had to do hours of processing time just to do what film does in 15 minutes.

Orion 15 minutes using Fuji film. ST120 PF, ST80 w/SSAG.


10 minutes with same setup. Both taken in March.


This one of K5 McNaught was stacked using DSLR and a lot of time processing.

Hardly no color either. I had wished I had taken film that night.

William


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3937344 - 07/22/10 12:43 PM

Quote:

does anyone still use cold camera

I notice some people srill hyper film




Film hypering is still a viable option. I have not seen the cold camera in use for a few decades, except when I'm out in January and February in below zero F conditions!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3937349 - 07/22/10 12:45 PM

William, Thanks for posting your results. Film and digital are two great ways to image. What you get out of it is what you put into it. I have a good work flow with film so I continue with that.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EJN
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3937444 - 07/22/10 01:35 PM

I was a film holdout for a long time. I had 2 Olympus OM-1
bodies, assorted lenses, dedicated flash, multiple
focusing screens. I had a complete B&W darkroom setup,
and had processed color slides using Unicolor rapid E-6.
I tried doing my own color prints, and while the results
were successful it was too time-consuming and not cost
effective.

2 years ago I bought a Canon S5. I guess I will be the
contrarian here, but I underwent a complete change of
viewpoint after using digital for 2 years. I will most
likely never shoot another roll of film.

I sold off most of the film equipment that I could still
get reasonable money for, I still have 1 OM-1 body and
the 50mm lens. Haven't used it for several years, the
light seals are falling out & turning to goo.

As for the darkroom equipment, you can hardly give the
stuff away, so I dumped it along with the paper & chemicals.
I will not miss darkroom work. Spending countless hours
breathing stop-bath & fixer fumes (yes I had a ventilation
fan in the darkroom) probably contributed to the chronic
migraine headaches I get now. I'll take PhotoShop anyday.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
WillCarney
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/08/09

Loc: Bloomington, ILL
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: EJN]
      #3937450 - 07/22/10 01:38 PM

I still have the darkroom stuff but don't use it any more.
I just ask for a CD when I get the film developed and process images from that.

I have other pictures I posted as well. The thread 3666808 I think had the new B&W Kodak film.

William

Edited by WillCarney (07/22/10 01:39 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ian Robinson
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/29/09

Loc: 33S , 151E
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: WillCarney]
      #3938941 - 07/23/10 08:23 AM

Got to take my old Minolta XD5 out of retirement one day.

I still have my hypering kit, maybe I should refill the forming gas cylinder too.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Ian Robinson]
      #3940512 - 07/23/10 11:00 PM

Go and do it. Why the heck not? We would love to see others getting back into the "real" thing. It's encouraging to me to try as well, although I don't have the equipment.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #3940863 - 07/24/10 07:18 AM

Highfnum mentioned cold camera at the beginning of this post. Check this out. Own a piece of history.

I don't think I would like working with dry ice and small chips of film however.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Celestron-Williams-Cold-Camera-/120531647017?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c103efa29


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
highfnum
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/06/06

Loc: NE USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3940926 - 07/24/10 08:16 AM

interesting timing
are modern films same as 20-30 years ago?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3941052 - 07/24/10 09:54 AM

I believe the HP5 is the same. Tri-X, probably the same. T-Max 100 is the same, but TMAX 400 has been reformulated (TMY-2), for the better. It may be a good candidate for hypering.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
highfnum
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/06/06

Loc: NE USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3944211 - 07/25/10 10:00 PM

do any of u guys take multiple images then scan and stack?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3944664 - 07/26/10 06:10 AM

I sometimes make mosaics with multiple frames. These can be done in PS, but I find Autostitch is much easier.

Here is three frames with a 300mm f/4@ f/5.6

http://www.nightfly.zoomshare.com/album/Pentax%2067%20Gallery/images/2509c2b32709ceb4566b9bd9dd26716d_12337147500/:album?css=/lib/style/arial.css&css=/lib/style/type_album.css&css=files/custom.css


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SeaRefractor
member


Reged: 02/26/11

Loc: SeaTac, WA, USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: EJN]
      #5726320 - 03/11/13 04:50 PM

Quote:

I still have 1 OM-1 body and
the 50mm lens. Haven't used it for several years, the
light seals are falling out & turning to goo.




It's been a little while and you may not have that camera any longer, but I found a great source for light seal kits here: http://camerasealkit.com/om1.html

Seperately, there's a good OM-1 information site here: http://olympus.dementix.org/M-1/index.html Even has some maintenance information if you need to clean out the goo.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
laconicsax
super member


Reged: 10/05/10

Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #5729684 - 03/13/13 04:52 AM

Since this thread got kicked up and is new to me, here're my $.02:

Quote:

1) Why is film still being used - what are advantages at this time?




The biggest advantage, for me, is cost. I don't have a DSLR or CCD, but do have a film SLR and lenses, so right off the bat, that's hundreds of dollars (at least) that I don't have to spend. I crunched the numbers a couple of years ago and found that once I've shot something like 30-40 rolls (600-800 exposures), I'll have spent as much on film and processing as a used DSLR and will be much better at the actual skills and techniques required to get quality images. There's also an advantage to not being dependent on too much stuff. My SLR is purely mechanical and I guide manually, so there's no laptop, no autoguider, no worries about batteries dying and losing data, etc.

Quote:

2) Does anyone in this forum still use Schmidt camera's



No idea.

Quote:

3) Is it going to become totaly impossible in a few years get film developed?



Well, it's now 2013 there are still plenty of labs, 1-hour photo places around, and equipment to develop at home is still pretty easy to get, so I think the answer is no.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: laconicsax]
      #5729731 - 03/13/13 06:12 AM

I know many that have wonderful film equipment that just sits in a camera bag. Like you, I don't have the coin to throw mine aside and build another system. I find that I can work well with what I already own and that this is not a limitation, but a liberation from the constant upgrade hell that the industry has designed in the photographic world.

"...few photographers ever master their medium. Instead they allow the medium to master them and go on an endless squirrel cage chase from new lens to new paper to new developer to new gadget, never staying with one piece of equipment long enough to learn its full capacities, becoming lost in a maze of technical information that is of little or no use since they don't know what to do with it." - Edward Weston


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Michal1
sage


Reged: 07/25/10

Loc: Czech Republic, Central Europe
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #5730970 - 03/13/13 07:33 PM

1) Believe it or not, I simply prefer the look of film images over the digital ones, especially those wide field. Even though the digital images are usually sharper and often show fainter objects. The film colours are more pleasant to my eye and there is something which I can't define well - I'd call it the structure of the image.

Today, I was interested whether there are digital images of the Rho Ophiuchi region with colours as magnificient as those of some film images I know. I entered "rho ophiuchi" into Google image search. From the hundreds of images found, I selected the one that I liked most and looked, what camera it was taken by. It was Dave Kodama's image taken on E200 :-).

2) There was a member who was going to start using a Schmidt camera. He made his last post several months ago.

3) The development seems not to be a big problem. The worst problem starts to be the availability of good scanning, at least here. Nikon seems to stop to supply spare parts for their scanners. So when any part a scanner gets broken, the scanner can be thrown away. I'm not sure who will scan my next film.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Michal1]
      #5749848 - 03/22/13 02:27 PM

After having bought my first digital camera back in '99 I don't recall having taken a single halide based image since then, but reading these film based astrophotography threads has made me nostalgic for the old film days, and with some of the new low/lower reciprocity failure films out there, I've decided to give it a try and get back into it again. But first......

I broke out the "old work horse" OM-2 that my wife and I bought back when we married in 1980 and had it looked over by the local camera repair shop. Up to this point, and oddly enough with with my background, I'd never given a single thought as to what time does to a camera that's been sitting unused in a closet for 14 years. I thought it would be perfectly fine regardless. How wrong I was.

First of all and most obvious, all the leatherette on the outside of the protective camera case has deteriorated and is falling off of the body. It's now a sorry and ugly looking mess, but no big deal, It still functions perfectly fine in doing its job of protecting the camera body, but that's the least of the camera's problems.
Anyone have an idea as to how to restore leatherette? The camera repair folks said they would pay me good money if I came up with a cheap, workable fix. Hah..

As for the camera itself, the first thing the folks at the shop checked was to see if the shutter was operating properly. Turns out that the shutter is worthless for exposures less than 1/60 of a second. Next thing they showed me is that the iris of the camera's original 50mm Zuiko lens is frozen wide open. The 28mm Tokina and 200mm Soligor I had purchased for use with the camera body also have their iris' stuck wide open. Not sure what additional repairs will be needed, but it seems that the lubricating oils used in the lenses and the camera body have lost their volatiles and have subsequently turned onto glue or concrete. That's what happens if the lenses are not exercised in all that time. Slow shutter and stuck iris', none of this makes much of a difference when doing astrophotography,... that is if one doesn't mind the additional aberrations that go along with the lenses being wide open.

Call me crazy, but please don't tell my wife, I've decided to go ahead and have the camera shop proceed with the needed repairs somewhere at a cost of around(cough, cough) $200. The cost doesn't include the Tokina and Soligor lenses, which they said I was better off scraping. However, I do think I'll give it a try fixing them myself since I can sometimes actually be handy in that way, but again, please don't tell my wife.
Besides, what do I have to lose?

Before anyone goes and calls me a sentimentalist, spending that kind of money to rehabilitate something like this, remember this is what photography/astrophotography itself is all about. Now all I have to do is get my turn table working again so I can get those old LPs digitized that were never released on vinyl just so I can listen to them on CDs.
No MP3s for me,... No Sir!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
THEPLOUGH
ELEVEN Grandchildren; FIVE Ducklings
*****

Reged: 01/11/08

Loc: Carlisle, Cumbria, ENGLAND
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #5750467 - 03/22/13 07:45 PM

...And I promise, not a word to your good lady...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: THEPLOUGH]
      #5750549 - 03/22/13 08:30 PM

This is wonderful news Jeff. I'm sure the camera will begin to feel like old hat again. We will all be anxious to see your progress. By all means please keep us informed on what you are up to. The whole process that you have begun will make a great story.

Welcome back!

Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TechPan6415
sage
*****

Reged: 07/29/12

Loc: Aspen, Co
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: EJN]
      #5974684 - 07/16/13 05:34 PM

Quote:

As for the darkroom equipment, you can hardly give the
stuff away, so I dumped it along with the paper & chemicals.
I will not miss darkroom work. Spending countless hours
breathing stop-bath & fixer fumes (yes I had a ventilation
fan in the darkroom) probably contributed to the chronic
migraine headaches I get now. I'll take PhotoShop anyday.




Not the really good stuff, it is very hard to find in good condition and costs quite a bit. Try sourcing a 150 F/4 Rodagon Apo-N or a 105 Rodagon G mural lens. Try getting an LPL 4550XLG / VCCE for under a grand. RH Designs equipment has gone through the roof!

I have been using digital professionally for 20 years, it's gotten better but what it has done to the industry and worse...the perception of what makes a *good* photograph...is not good, frankly it has turned photography into pop-art junk.

After this year, I am done with it and all the computer related stuff. I love my darkroom, totally state of the art, not nearly as stinky chemistry in using citrus based stop bath and a super high tech variable speed ventilation system.

But the best part? It is not producing soon to be utterly worthless digi-*BLEEP*, is producing gorgeous hand made photographs that go for $500 a print, minimum and will only go up from there.

Why use the same brainless garbage every other hack uses, especially if you have the market and the talent?

I understand about astrophotography though, it makes sense. But I don't really do that since it is hard to get unique shots that put things into artistic perspective.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5974798 - 07/16/13 06:49 PM

Quote:

I love my darkroom, totally state of the art, not nearly as stinky chemistry in using citrus based stop bath and a super high tech variable speed ventilation system.





But I love the smell of acetic acid in the morning.... or what ever time of day it is.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #5978345 - 07/18/13 05:09 PM

I still have all my old Minolta cameras and lenses,
I still love the way they feel and function. I lovingly keep them clean and maintained.. someday at my estate sale some person will buy a box of stuff and dump them in the Goodwill Box... But for everything bad you can say about Digital (False color)
there are 2 with film, Bloated Stars/fogging/ etc, Film was fun, So was Super 8, but it is a technology time has passed up.
I had a Dark Room and also suffer from Migrains that I didn't before. Film is so expensive and getting harder to find except the most generic dummy prooof types.
There are so many programs you can achieve virtually any film effect, like grain, contrast, fogging etc.
One thing I do not miss is spending 5 hrs in sub zero temp for a few shots that "may" come out...
Sorry guys, I have to put my hat in the Digital ring,
There is No way film can come close to todays Planetary Digital shots..
Makes me kinda sad...
Larry


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: orion61]
      #5979577 - 07/19/13 10:42 AM

I would agree that for the majority of work, film takes a backseat to digital, especially at present. Remember ten-fifteen years ago when they said film was dead? Digital was very poor by today's standards and at that time medium format film still exceeded digital. But what I hear from many today is that film is dead....now.

Practiced at its ideal and with zeal, film can still pull it off IMHO. I would not recommend anyone to start astrophotography with film today, except maybe for startrail work where the results are simply wonderful...still. For those of us that practiced the craft for decades and have a fondness for the aesthetics of the medium, we will continue to produce analog work that at least to our own eyes is quality work.

Is it harder and inconvenient? Sure. Does it make sense to maintain this forum? Probably not if it is going to be a museum for pictures of a bygone era, which is an ever increasing theme here.

There are only a handful of film shooters left in the analog astrophotography realm and there will be fewer still as time progresses.

I've been shooting digital for several month now and my last film shot (astro) was last October. I'm impressed by what I see with new capabilities that I am not used to having. It is simply wonderful. That being said, the look of film is something that captures my heart. As a result I cannot give it up. Not just yet.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: orion61]
      #5984868 - 07/22/13 05:44 PM

Can't argue with facts. It's more an artistic concept that keeps me shooting film. For landscape work, or wide field astro, it gives a certain look, and feel which just runs in my blood. I'm also at an age where I don't care anymore about the latest and greatest gadget, phone, or camera.

The only downside to digital to me is exactly that, where there is a constant push to upgrade or replace equipment recently purchased. New camera, new lenses, what the previous model stopped working?

Igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Michal1
sage


Reged: 07/25/10

Loc: Czech Republic, Central Europe
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #5998947 - 07/30/13 07:00 PM

Quote:

... wide field astro, it gives a certain look, and feel which just runs in my blood.



That's it exactly. It is a certain combibination of perfectness and imperfectness which makes film images so attractive. With the same lens, exposure settings and probably lesser effort digital sensors can produce deeper and sharper images than film. But is a technicaly good astrophoto really the equivalent of a nice astrophoto? Not for me.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Michal1]
      #5999570 - 07/31/13 06:14 AM

I took two photographs with the same lens, the SMC Pentax 67 200mm F/4. One with the 67, the other with the Pentax K-01 digital camera.

The central portion shows the APS-C sensor capture within the 6x7 frame captured on E200. Although the digital capture was more detailed, the 6X7 frame is much larger in field size, lens for lens. A 75mm lens on the digital would closely mach the resulting field size of the 200 on the 67 and that would be a fair game for comparison in overall resolution per field size. I'll have to try that sometime.

I thought this example would be good for those who ask me about the differences in the format sizes.


Sagittarius Milky Way: APS-C on 6X7 Frame by Nightfly Photography, on Flickr


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #5999589 - 07/31/13 06:38 AM

I echo Igor and Michal's sentiments. This is a hobby, a craft for which I gain tremendous reward. I choose to shoot film because it is something that pleases me. I choose to live in the world of the photographic process where I am not constantly looking to upgrade to the next gadget, software, or complete camera systems. I do not want to lust after equipment, which I see as the real state of affairs in the photographic marketplace. Do I have limitations? Sure do. I place my effort on what is possible with what I have.

I don't have a lot of money. I worked damn hard for what gear I do have. I am raising a family and trying to find the balance. I share my photography with forums such as these. I take away your good comments and gain encouragement to move on and do more.

Do I think film as I use it is better than digital? For me, yes. I love what it does and how it renders the great vistas of the Milky Way. It is more in line with what I desired to achieve as a budding astrophotographer thirty years ago. For me, this is not a race, but a personal desire.

As for where I live. I live under one of the darkest skies in America. The envy of many astrophotographers. I treasure it. It is a great starting points for successful images as well as deep sky observing. So as limited as I may be in the means I choose to work with, I have the best skies to do it in.


I'll finish my rant with thought from my photographer's bio:

Iíve always been a lover of the night sky and realized photography to be a natural outlet for actively participating in, and learning more about the nocturnal scene. Astrophotography is a difficult pursuit, requiring one to amass knowledge of photography and astronomy, as well as the legacy of the pioneers that blazed the way in the photographic arts and sciences. Composition and execution of long exposures are often daunting, but quite rewarding when vision and technique guide the way to successful images.

It is what is not seen that drives me invest much time to expose each image, capturing beyond the scope of the human eye and revealing the nature of what is present regardless of our ability to see. It is the power of method and the mind's eye to recognize the potential of each composition. This is where I find my inspiration for a photograph, the results of which often make the whole endeavor worth the time and effort.

Patience is a must, and a welcome discipline in a busy world intent on making things faster and more efficient. It is taking time to think, love, and learn that yields fruit in life, and so it is in photography. Right now, my work is inseparable from where I want to be when I am feeling my best and the opportunity avails itself to create something new. I live to create.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6002467 - 08/02/13 01:29 AM

Amen, my brother of the night sky.

igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Achernar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: orion61]
      #6055257 - 08/30/13 10:46 PM

Still have my Nikon F3HP and six lenses for it, including a 180mm F/2.8 ED telephoto lens. All are still functional, and as a young man I used them hard in floods, extreme cold and other challenging conditions. Haven't developed a single roll of film in over 20 years or made a print, but I would do it again in a second if I had the means to do so.

Taras


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimegger
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/22/05

Loc: Palmer,Alaska
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Achernar]
      #6074380 - 09/11/13 04:00 AM

I had to chime in on this forum after reading all the comments on film versus digital. I spent many hundreds of hours shooting the night sky through many different telescopes in temperatures to -40 F with and without a cold camera and hypered film. After a night of shooting it was fun to set up the chemistry lab and do the processing the next day to see what had been accomplished. It was always fascinating to see how it all turned out. In the end I went digital with a Canon 20 da after all those years of film shooting. I do miss the film but have to say that being able to eliminate skyglow and bring out the details that are truly there via image processing has been just as much if not more fun and in the end less work without all the toxic chemicals that must in the end be properly disposed of. I do miss some of the aesthetics of film but digital has is own different set of aesthetics that are no more or less attractive in accomplishing the same end. I hope film never goes away and someone out there keeps carrying the torch for it, I just don't want to see it die and yet at the same time it won't be me carrying that torch. I may yet shoot some more film somewhere down the line and it would be good to know that it is still available and does the job.

Edited by jimegger (09/11/13 06:52 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: jimegger]
      #6075707 - 09/11/13 07:11 PM

Your comments are well appreciated and understood. We wish more people had this understanding. Film or digital should not separate us as astrophotographers. We each have our methods and preferences. There are artists who prefer oils, and those that use acrylic for paint. Yet they are still artists.

I must admit that it is becoming difficult - heck it is difficult with what's happening to film. An uphill battle regardless of equipment. But it seems to fade away when you crack a new roll of film and begin loading the camera. Stuck in the past - and liking it. Now if I could just find the hand crank I could start the car and head for town.

igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bluesteel
sage


Reged: 03/24/13

Loc: KILM
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6085181 - 09/17/13 01:36 AM

*Insert grumpy old man here, even though I am somewhat younger in astronomy circles*
Being a stickler for detail makes me think of several things, all pertaining to motion pictures...
The criterion collection and old 20's and 30's black and white films when remastered for the latest technology in televisions have more detail and contrast than any 1080p digital camera could dream of having. Old Charlie Chaplin films come to mind. Watching those cinema classics every time they are remastered floors me at the quality achieved many, many years earlier.

You can't remaster a pixel... A pixel is a pixel, even with line doublers and digital interpolation to make the picture "better". Your final result is your final result, and any additional pixels introduced to enhance or enlarge the original alters and detracts from the original image in my opinion.

Imax cameras use film, not digital storage cards. If that is not saying something, i don't know what will. Unfortunately, most projectors are digital now in theaters, with people operating them that do not even know how to properly focus the darn things. You never will get the true result of that massive negative area when played digitally. In 100 years time though, a remastering of an Imax film will probably knock the socks off the viewer for image contrast and clarity, just like the older black and white silent films do to me in this day and age.

I have to wholeheartedly agree with the way photography is going is like pop art when viewing it through the digital age. Garbage. Reminds me of the "art factories", which are the bane of painting art, and some of these new, digital photographic exhibits are laudable at best.
Now I am not saying that all digital is bad, we can all agree there are some phenomenal pictures being taken in astrophotography, as well as stills of the world around us. There just seems to be a lot less of any sort of thought process for a lot of the digital being produced, which will create an inferior product, no matter what the medium.

Now get off my lawn you whippersnapper!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: bluesteel]
      #6089167 - 09/18/13 11:32 PM

Exactly right. I also prefer silver halide to a pixel. B&W photography enchants me far more than colour as well. Which begs the questions. Why does an acoustic guitar require amplification? Does an egg printed with a digital code taste any better than one with an analogue sticker on it? Is the electricity in my house any different now that the Smart Meter has replaced the dumb analogue meter? I have more questions, but this is a good start.

Igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bluesteel
sage


Reged: 03/24/13

Loc: KILM
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6092355 - 09/20/13 07:24 PM

Quote:

Why does an acoustic guitar require amplification?



To turn it up to 11!
Quote:

Does an egg printed with a digital code taste any better than one with an analogue sticker on it?



That is like asking if the chicken or egg came first... and obviously the egg came first because dinosaurs were laying them long before chickens were around! I would prefer a sticker to a laser burning my eggs pre-cooking them.
Quote:

Is the electricity in my house any different now that the Smart Meter has replaced the dumb analogue meter?



Yes, you have to pay for all you consume now, instead of adding a different "gear" to lessen the meter numbers


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: bluesteel]
      #6094160 - 09/21/13 09:58 PM

OK - last question, and if answered correctly you win the official digital state of affairs focusing tool for use with point and shoot cameras.

What other famous characters came from Frostbite Falls? No searching the web. If you are old enough - you will know the answer. Talk about highjacking a thread!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6094836 - 09/22/13 10:57 AM

I won't give the answer, but I remember watching the show on those early Saturday mornings in the 70's when they were old reruns at that point.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6097305 - 09/23/13 07:16 PM

What reruns? I'm still watching them today. Like us - great stuff Jim. Another dark cycle almost upon us. Hope you get out for some frames my friend.

igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6097379 - 09/23/13 08:28 PM

It has been almost a year since I've taken a film astrophoto. The longest dry spell in a decade for me. I'm reminded of that fact every time I open the fridge.

Feeling like I lost my mojo.

And I used to be hardcore.........


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
David1268
journeyman


Reged: 08/28/13

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6104326 - 09/27/13 02:07 PM

Somehow photons striking film seems more "real" than an electronic file of 0's & 1's that has been processed - although I acknowledge it's really no different than photons striking pixels and film images can be processed to an extent. Also I'm about to take the plunge into digital.

Btw, like Tommyhawk I have a car with a carb that I love to tune.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6125990 - 10/08/13 10:24 PM

Jim I know the feeling. I've passed up some good nights this year - just cannot get going to drive out to the farm. Getting old I guess and those cold nights without heat just don't do it for me anymore. Tomorrow night conditions - for the first time this year are above average. But, as usual I have a meeting to attend that evening. Maybe after the meeting? What are the odds? Any takers?

Igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6126398 - 10/09/13 06:17 AM

Igor,

In light of recent events I am forced to reevaluate everything . I know there is some special work with film to be done, but I believe the tour de force work is over.

I now have hundreds of hours of exposures to comb over and organize. Maybe I will produce a catalog of sorts, kinda like a Selected Regions of the Milky Way, ala Barnard. I have all my field notes from all those years of shooting. It will be fun to organize and desktop publish. I do want to get into writing and perhaps this will be a good next step and a worthy project.

It is hard to pass up those nights. Let's plan on observing more and photographing less. But you know we'll get the itch to load a roll and expose from time to time.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6129376 - 10/10/13 03:44 PM

AGREED Jim. Getting the Tec ready for some backyard viewing tonight. Might bring the G11 home from the OB and just enjoy some planetary and double star viewing, not to mention Luna. Taking a year off might be a good thing. Re-evaluate the frames, and then take specific exposures to fill out the catalogue so to speak.

I now have access to Bortle 1.5 skies up north and can visit this cottage throughout the year. Those skies alone would make a huge difference to the quality of the exposures. When I viewed the M. Way this summer from this location - even with a rising moon, it was something I had not experienced in quite awhile. The hunt camp has just under Bortle 2 - and the cottage is noticeably "richer" in what can be seen with the eye.

Igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6178326 - 11/05/13 10:23 PM

I went to Target the other day to get some film. I wanted to experiment with 400 speed color film if ISON gets at all good. I remember taking some nice shots of Hyakutake on 400 speed film. They had no film in the store. I was so surprised. I found no disposable cameras, either. The fellow there said he hadn't seen any come in to be stocked for about three months. I have no idea if that is true and if it's chain wide if it is true but I did look around since I never believe anything they tell me and I couldn't find any.

I think I will get some BW film from Freestyle and develop it myself.

All this talk of "toxic" chemicals. Color chemicals could be pretty toxic, I suppose, but I never had any trouble either way. BW chemicals - how I loved the smell. I can't wait to get back into it. I had the strangest brown spots on my hands from not using gloves...

GW


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6180251 - 11/07/13 12:38 AM

Gosh - a sign of the times that is. But I know Freestyle and B&H have films - lots to choose from and quick delivery. Probably B&W would be a better choice for comets - not a lot of colour and sure simplifies the developing task.

Please shoot and post any pictures you get. This could be a great comet to shoot and many are looking forward to it. Will you be shooting from a tripod or mount?

igor


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6180503 - 11/07/13 08:24 AM

I'll shoot on a CG5 mount, piggybacked on my scope. I recall using exposures of up to 30 minutes when Hyakutake was around. I can't remember exactly - it's been a while. I'll probably shoot and develop film and then scan it, without making actually prints. That seems a good method, to me. GW

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6181383 - 11/07/13 04:17 PM

What are your sky conditions as far as L pollution goes? If you have good skies, and use a 100 B&W film the exposure sounds about right +- with a faster f stop. If Nightfly jumps in he could help a bit more with this as I have little experience with comets or B&W films. Jim shoots a lot of Fuji Acros.

We still have time to get sorted out for this presentation. It could be a special once in a lifetime event as we go thru the tail and hopefully get a fantastic shower.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6181849 - 11/07/13 09:14 PM

If you can find Fujicolor 100 (CN) in 135 format, that would be my first pick. Fujicolor 200 is almost as good.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/93078-USA/Fujifilm_15719395_CA_135_24_F...

It's cheap and really good. Snatch some before its gone.

Fuji Acros 100 is the best B&W film for astrophotography, period. It will cover the spectrum from blue to orange, but cuts off dramatically in the red spectrum. Should be fine for comets.

Kodak Gold 200 is a great performer, but requires more exposure than the fuji films listed above.

I have not tried Kodak 400. If it is like the old gold 400 from the 90's it should be a great film.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6182968 - 11/08/13 01:29 PM

Thanks for that info! Gold 400 was indeed the film I was using before. I will see about getting the Fuji film you mention. I still have my easyguider and everthing needed for all kinds of film AP. I have not been pleased with results from digital imaging - if you are as interested in art as in science, digital looks wrong, at least I think so. GW

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
0 registered and 0 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  1965healy, WOBentley 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 8757

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics