Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
#3425117 - 11/02/09 08:41 AM Attachment (533 downloads)
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The new Microsoft webcam, LifeCam Cinema HD, has been getting good reviews for its 1280x720 HD video performance at 30 fps and low light sensitivity. I bought one for $55 to test for astro imaging and posted modification instructions along with some initial software tests here:
http://www.ghonis2.ho8.com/lifecam/lifecam1.html
Below is a pic showing how small the circuitry/imaging chip is. Hope to see how it does on Jupiter and the Moon soon.
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RedIrocZ-28
Carpal Tunnel
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Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3425219 - 11/02/09 10:07 AM
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Gary, you and I must be always looking for the next best bang for the buck camera. I have been following this camera since it launched recently, reading reviews, watching demo videos etc. I have also been looking at the Logitech Webcam PRO 9000, which is another supposed low light, HD, higher FPS camera.
I'll be excitedly watching your progress with this camera!
Hope it work well
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MvZ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/03/07
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3425226 - 11/02/09 10:17 AM
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I'm following this with great interest. I'm very curious about the performance (image quality) on the moon/planets.
How much preprocessing is the webcam doing? Is it possible to perform raw-mods to the camera (to turn the preprocessing off)? With the QC9000 I noticed that the read-out of a frame took quite a lot of time (wobbly effects when you moved a pencil in front of the camera). How is the readout speed of this camera (e.g. how much time difference is there between the top and bottom part of a single frame?)
Anyways, keep us posted!
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: RedIrocZ-28]
#3425378 - 11/02/09 12:00 PM
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I found that the YouTube videos for the LifeCam Cinema HD, especially those that directly compared it to other webcams, give a good idea of the webcam's performance. The higher apparent quality, especially under low light levels, is most likley due to Microsoft's "ClearFrame" feature that appears to be noise removal on-the-fly and I don't know how well that will work for planetary imaging, since it might remove detail. It can be turned off, so testing will tell.
Logitech marketting has created some confusion with the Logitech "Webcam" Pro 9000. My understanding is that it is identical to the Logitech "Quickcam" Pro 9000, hardware- wise, but the "Webcam" package includes Logitech Vid video calling software. I have modified and used the Logitech Quickcam Pro 9000. Modification details are on my web page here:
http://www.ghonis2.ho8.com/Pro9000a.html
Planetary imaging I have done with the Pro 9000 has been disappointing. I have found that it has worked well for solar and lunar imaging, but it is not as sensitive as my Logitech Fusion, which gives better results for planetary imaging. The Fusion for planetary is much better than my Toucam. Since the Fusion is my best webcam for planetary at this time, I will be doing comparison tests of the LifeCam Cinema HD to it.
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: MvZ]
#3425391 - 11/02/09 12:08 PM
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You asked: "With the QC9000 I noticed that the read-out of a frame took quite a lot of time (wobbly effects when you moved a pencil in front of the camera). How is the readout speed of this camera (e.g. how much time difference is there between the top and bottom part of a single frame?)"
Reply: I don't know how to measure that. I think the wobbly effects you asked about depend on the frame rate. The stated frame rate of 30fps for HD video capture is the big selling feature of this webcam but I've read reports of only a few getting this. Achieving 30 fps in HD may require a computer with a high end processor. Then there's the inherent choke of USB 2.0, so compression comes into play.
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RedIrocZ-28
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/18/05
Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3425526 - 11/02/09 01:32 PM
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Gary, whats funny is with the ToUcam we all lamented about the choke of the USB 1.x and wished the ToUcam would do USB 2.0, now we're talking about how the HD feed is choking the USB 2.0.
Don't worry, Point Grey Research has come out with a USB 3.0 device. I figure a good SSD hard drive and a fast laptop could handle the USP 3.0 pipeline.
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: RedIrocZ-28]
#3445088 - 11/13/09 02:40 AM Attachment (359 downloads)
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Got out under clear skies 11/06 for first light with the modified LifeCam HD on Jupiter. Seeing was bad. I was able to stack 60 of 1200 frames of the 1280X720 HD videos and posted images and animations here:
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/lifecam/lifecam5.html
Still need to do some comparison testing to the Logitech Fusion and 450D DSLR, but I think this webcam will become my planetary imager of choice.
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RedIrocZ-28
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/18/05
Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3445579 - 11/13/09 11:15 AM
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Gary, I was at Meijer last night and I went looking for this camera, but thought I better wait to see your results first. Gotta say I am pretty surprised, what was the elevation at time of capture? What would the image look like if you stacked say 600 of the frames? I have noticed that sometimes even unsharp frames can contribute to the overall appearance of the image.
EDIT: I see you answered everything on your webpage.
Not bad!
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: RedIrocZ-28]
#3445712 - 11/13/09 12:25 PM Attachment (335 downloads)
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Low elevation and bad seeing isn't the best time to test a camera, but here in the land of everlasting clouds, I was anxious to see how the webcam performed and to get used to its controls. It was very difficult to focus because of the bad seeing. I was set up at the end of my driveway. Everytime a car would drive by, the Jupiter image would become even a worse warping blob. When seeing conditions are this bad, my experience with other webcams has been to limit the stack to as few frames as possible in order to eek out some detail. Because of the seeing, there is no way I could stack 600 frames. I did try stacks of 100, 80, 60 and 40 frames as a test and stacks between 40 and 60 frames gave the best results. Even fewer stacks improved detail but with increased noise. Pics below are actual raw BMPs from one AVI (used for second frame of animation) and you can see that with seeing this bad, including poor frames in the stack would erase detail.
I could tell from making the brightness/contrast/exposure adjustments that this is a light sensitive webcam and I had good control of the image's appearance for capture. It did not have the "onion skin" effect on Jupiter that I have experienced with the Logitech Pro 9000 webcam.
Seems the Microsoft provided driver slows down the frame rate capture and if it is un-installed, higher frame rates can be captured. Bill Gates strikes again.
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3451225 - 11/16/09 12:36 PM
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Finally got the LifeCam HD capturing 1280X720 HD video at 30 fps. Had to uninstall the Microsoft driver and install an MJPG codec on my system. Updated some info here:
http://www.ghonis2.ho8.com/lifecam/lifecam3.html
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Mert
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/31/05
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3451306 - 11/16/09 01:09 PM
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Which one did you buy Gary, the 32bit decompress stated as 39$????
Looks good, do you already have some stacked image done at 30fps?
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Mert]
#3451331 - 11/16/09 01:19 PM
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There are lower priced "home versions" available here:
http://www.accusoft.com/picvideospecial.htm
I didn't buy the $29 version yet, since the trial version is still working (has a nag screen) and I want to test it more fully, especially for astro and also compare it to other MJPG codecs.
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Mert
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/31/05
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3451340 - 11/16/09 01:23 PM
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Thanks Gary, looks like a "breakthrough" what you
have achived!
Edited by Mert (11/16/09 02:00 PM)
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3452722 - 11/17/09 07:47 AM
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Gary,
May be you can show the picture of the main PCB processing IC? It may help in understanding the compression and frame rate bottleneck.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3453284 - 11/17/09 01:05 PM
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There is no problem with a choke now. I am capturing 1280X720 resolution at 30 frames per second reliably, using the MJPG codec.
I don't want to take the webcam apart to take photos of the circuit board at this time since I'm more interested in doing planetary and lunar imaging with it.
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zAmbonii
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/19/08
Loc: Ypsilanti, MI
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3453608 - 11/17/09 04:10 PM
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Maybe you will do comparison (mainly because I am kinda clueless on the different codecs), but A search says that the MJPG codec is lossy.
I'm just wondering if the higher framerate with the MJPG will look worse than the lower framerate YUY2.
I would be interested in giving this cam a try (since the mod seems to be kinda easy to do), but I am worried it wouldn't be a better solution because it has less control over the exposure options and I'm not sure if there would be an improvement in quality over my SPC900NC cam.
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MvZ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/03/07
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: zAmbonii]
#3453859 - 11/17/09 07:00 PM
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Gary, I hope you get the chance to do some more testing under good conditions, because to be honest I'm not too impressed by those Jupiter shots right now.
I'm especially interested in the actual sensitivity of the camera. Perhaps it can be measured in a reliable way using a fainter target such as Saturn (or even Uranus?). Of course you would need to consider the size of the pixels as well.
Edited by MvZ (11/17/09 07:24 PM)
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: MvZ]
#3454363 - 11/18/09 12:11 AM
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Please understand that the Jupiter images were first-light "test images" taken immediately after the modification, taken during poor seeing conditions with the planet low and not meant to impress. Here in NE PA, we only get a handful of good seeing nights a year. I try to get down south every winter for planetary imaging, especially to Florida, but I will be unable to do so this year. My best Saturn image was taken six years ago (2003) in Florida with a Toucam and was posted in Sky & Tel:
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/1103chiefstar.html
My best images of Mars were taken back in 2005 with a Toucam:
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/2005mars.html
When I converted a Logitech Fusion for astro, I did comparison testing and found the Fusion outperformed the Toucam. When I later converted a Logitech Pro 9000, I found the Fusion outperformed it. I will be making comparison tests of the LifeCam HD to the Fusion when the clouds decide to part and it will most likely be during poor seeing, when I would not normally attempt planetary imaging. The resulting test images will not be pretty, but the tests will tell me which webcam is better for imaging with my setup as I get prepared to image Mars.
Concerning your interest in the actual sensitivity of the camera, only comparison testing will tell. Based on my experience with the LifeCam HD so far, I can say that a Toucam exposure at 1/25 second is about the same as a LifeCam HD exposure of 1/250 second. But, the LifeCam HD has no GAIN adjustment and higher GAIN usually results in increased noise. I have found that noise is very low with the LifeCam HD and that is in agreement with non-astro reviews I have seen of the webcam. MJPG encoding is not lossless so I need to compare the results using it compared to a lossless codec at lower frame rates.
For those of us located in areas of poor seeing, capturing a lot of frames during the time limit to avoid planet rotation problems is important and that is one reason the LifeCam HD interested me since it can do HD at 30 fps.
So far, I have tested 9 video capture programs with the LifeCam HD using MJPG encoders to allow 1280X720 resolution at 30 fps:
1. IC Capture - works perfect 2. AMCAP - works perfect 3. Open Video Capture - captures perfect but preview freezes during adjustments 4. K3CCDTOOLS3 - captures perfect but preview freezes during adjustments 5. VirtualDub - captures perfect but preview not available during adjustments 6. wxAstroCapture - dropped frames - low capture frame rate 7. Debut Video Capture - MJPG not an option 8. NeoExpress3 Capture Video - MJPG not an option 9. QCfocus - high definition resolution not available
If anyone has a capture software they would like me to test with the LifeCam HD, let me know.
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MvZ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/03/07
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3454704 - 11/18/09 09:11 AM
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Didn't mean to attack your results Garry, I simply wasn't convinced by the Jupiter images.
It's also really difficult to compare camera's in a good way, espcecially when in your case you have poor seeing that can vary from second to second, but also because the pixelsize is different between the camera's, and slight focus changes might influence the results more than you would like.
Low noise might also be caused by on-camera processing that smooths out the image; something that you don't want for astronomy use.
Have you ever tried using a DMK camera by the way? It seems you tested so many webcams already, that you could have also bought a mono or color DMK
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: MvZ]
#3476589 - 11/30/09 07:31 PM
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When I first tested the modified Microsoft Lifecam Cinema webcam (11/6), I tried imaging the Moon, then at 77% phase. I used the webcam in HD mode, 1280X720, and using the Microsoft provided LifeCam software, captured a 10-minute .WMV video file at 15 fps. Seeing was poor as can be seen in the video. During capture I left the webcam set in auto exposure mode. You can see in the video that this worked pretty well as the scope scanned from bright to darker areas along the terminator.
Moon Tour Video in HD here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD0fEHLfX7s&fmt=22
If your computer system is not capable of displaying the movie in HD, you can switch to normal quality, but the level of detail will suffer.
The .WMV file needed to be converted to an .AVI file. The YouTube video quality is much less than that of the original video file. That is due to the recompression I needed to do before uploading to YouTube and also because of the processing YouTube does on their system. The Youtube video is also a little darker than the original video.
I have since discovered that the full frame capture rate of 30 fps can be achieved by not installing the Microsoft Lifecam driver. Recently, I have been able to capture 1280X720 frames at 30 fps and this has been with a lossless codec.
The video was made with a 20" Starmaster dob on my driveway controlled with the "Honis Ground Control" wireless system while being viewed from my recroom in high definition on a 50 inch plasma 1080i Vizio TV. This HD webcam may prove very useful for public star parties and group presentations.
Edited by Gary Honis (11/30/09 08:35 PM)
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kraterkid
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 03/07/05
Loc: Jacumba, California
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3477353 - 12/01/09 08:51 AM
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Wonderful video Gary! I was very impressed with the tour and the capabilities of the Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam as modified. I think you did a marvelous job with the graphics, crater data and narration. Well done!
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: zAmbonii]
#3477615 - 12/01/09 11:31 AM
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Okay, I did a comparison of the lossy PcVideo 4 MJPG compression to Huffyuv lossless compression in YUY2. Surprisingly, for a two-minute Jupiter AVI capture at 1280 X 720 hi-def resolution I was able to get the full 30 frames per second frame rate with no dropped frames.
The resulting two-minute AVI file size using the lossless Huffyuv is large, 1.4 GB, compared to 280 MB when using the lossy PcVideo 4 MJPG. But it's still a reasonable file size and I'm amazed that this webcam can do 1280 X 720 HD rez at 30 frames per second lossless over USB 2.0.
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MvZ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/03/07
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3477732 - 12/01/09 12:28 PM
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In pracice the USB 2.0 can produce speeds of up to about 35 megabytes per second. Altough I doubt the webcam can work at the speed, it's probably a little lower.
But in principle this means that it uses only 10 or 11 bits per pixel. Surely there must be some kind of compression going on?
By the way, that's a very nice capture of the moon!
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o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
   
Reged: 10/03/07
Loc: The Wolfpack
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: MvZ]
#3520271 - 12/24/09 07:04 PM
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I was shopping at the local Sam's Club yesterday and spotted the Lifecam HD priced in the mid $50s. Couldn't remember what brand webcam Gary had modded but the LifeCam sure looked like the pictures I'd seen posted here and on his website.
In checking this thread today I discovered the webcam at Sam's was in fact the subject of this thread. Just in time for Christmas, too!
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3553382 - 01/11/10 04:27 AM
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Gary, While I applaud your efforts and success in making it possible to capture 30fps using MPEG, I want to remind you and others interested, that MPEG is not just loss, but in fact is compression format. So, while you might be achieving higher frame rate: each frame received has artifacts related to MPEG compression. Just zoom a lot into picture and you will see blurring and shadows on edges. So, if you are looking into high dynamic pictures, your solution with 30fps MPEG might be of value. However, 10fps at YUY2 would give you higher quality of each frame and should be preferred for static and/or slow changing scene. Also, on your pages you might mention that turning off Auto Exposure might give you constant frame rate, while Auto Exposure enabled could produce variable fps.
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/10
Loc: Poland
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3553506 - 01/11/10 07:48 AM
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Does it uses CCD sensor? Some websites say it's CMOS
Edited by PiotrM (01/11/10 07:49 AM)
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3553939 - 01/11/10 11:56 AM
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Actually, the webcam is capturing HD (YUY2) at 30 fps using the Huffyuv lossless codec.
In reply to: "So, if you are looking into high dynamic pictures, your solution with 30fps MPEG might be of value. However, 10fps at YUY2 would give you higher quality of each frame and should be preferred for static and/or slow changing scene."
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: PiotrM]
#3553993 - 01/11/10 12:19 PM
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The Microsoft Cinema HD uses the OV9712 HD CMOS chip by OmniVision. Full specs here:
http://www.ovt.com/uploads/parts/OV9712%20PB%20v1.1%20WEB.pdf
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3554437 - 01/11/10 03:51 PM
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Gary,
Have you constructed DirectShow Graph in graphedit? I don't know about yours setup but basic LifeCam driver on my machine shows Capture Pin with 1280*720 with max 10fps. MJPG however is at 30fps.
So, I assumed that you are using 1280*720 MJPG at 30fps, then you have MJPG decompressor in your graph and only after that YUY2.
Am I right? If no and you really have YUY pin set at 1280*720 and 30fps: could you please tell me what system you are running this on, what version of lifecam driver you are using (see in ControlPane/System/Hardware/DeviceManager). What kind of USB port you have? To be able to have 1280*720 in YUY @30fps: you need USB bandwidth of 1280*720*16*30=~422mbs. While USB specification states 480mbs as max for USB2, in practice fastest USB2 are achieving not more then 150mbs and ordinary USB2s are around 60-80mbs.
So, I really doubt that you are getting YUY2 from camera to achieve 30FPS, more like its MJPG.
But who knows: please check.
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3555125 - 01/11/10 09:44 PM
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You need to uninstall the microsoft software provided with the webcam. Then install Huffyuv lossless codec. Then you can select 1280 X720 resolution at 30 fps in YUY2. It's all explained on my web site.
I'm not familiar with graphedit.
You asked: "could you please tell me what system you are running this on".
I describe the notebook I'm using on the web page: http://www.ghonis2.ho8.com/lifecam/lifecam3.html
You asked: "what version of lifecam driver you are using (see in ControlPane/System/Hardware/DeviceManager)."
Driver is shown as 3.0.204.0 but the device is disabled.
You commented: "you need USB bandwidth of 1280*720*16*30=~422mbs".
Is the "16" for 16-bit? The imaging chip is 10-bit. Maybe that explains it?
You commented: "So, I really doubt that you are getting YUY2 from camera to achieve 30FPS, more like its MJPG."
I really don't just make this stuff up:) I've looked at the frames captured in K3CCDTools in 1280 X720 resolution (YUY2) and 30 fps and they're great. None of the compression artifacts when capturing at 30 fps using MJPG.
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3555545 - 01/12/10 02:20 AM
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Gary, I just want to understand yours configuration. So, you have: -- Huffyuv lossless codec: thats OK. But this is just codec that converts YUV to HYUV. So, what is your Capturing Device? You are saying that you have Lifecam 3.0.204.0 drive disabled: So which one is enabled on your system? Could you check Imagine Devices?
Yes imagin chip is 10bits: but this is resolution of AD converter, has nothing to do with YUV. Yes, I was wrong: precisely YUY2 is 12 bits per pixel: so still 1280*720*12*30=316mbs is much above practical USB2 device limits.
You might be getting 30fps on your output not because your camera realy produces 30fps, but instead you might have special filter inserted into your graph that just produces duplicate samples. FOr example you might be getting 10fps from the camera and then ther is a filter in your graph that just sends each frame 3 times, so you are getting 30fps on output...
So, I'm just trying to figure out the truth...
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Chote
sage
Reged: 10/31/05
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3555597 - 01/12/10 04:46 AM
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Hi Gary,
I did modify and test the QCPro9000 by following your instruction and found the planet image is unacceptable due to the "onion ring" effect after processing. But I found the moon image is astounding!
Do you find the "onion ring" effect in your new MS webcam? I don't see it but I need your confirmation before taking a plunge.
Another question on QCPro9000, I did not remove the stock glass plate in front of the CCD because I think it could prevent dust from the CCD; however I see the dust trace on my processed image. Do you think I need to remove it?
You can see my old post on QCPro9000 here:
[url=http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?
Cat=&Board=Imaging&Number=2958561&Forum=f57&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=2949900&Search=
true&where=bodysub&Name=12847&daterange=1&newerval=2&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2958561]http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?
Cat=&Board=Imaging&Number=2958561&Forum=f57&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&
Main=2949900&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=12847&daterange=1&newerval=
2&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2958561[/url]
Thanks again for sharing your experience.
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3556331 - 01/12/10 02:30 PM Attachment (205 downloads)
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igor1960,
I use K3CCDtools for analyzing all frames of the 30fps AVI file. First, K3CCDtools can list all frames with any dropped frames noted if there were any. I tweak my system to obtain no or as few dropped frames as possible, including turning off virus software and also internet connection, disabling audio capture and using manual exposure instead of auto. I also capture to my notebook's hard drive. Because of poor seeing, in order to select the best frames by eye, I have visually gone through every frame of a 1280X720 30fps YUY2 Huffyuv lossless AVI file and each frame is unique.....there are no duplicates. When I check the captured AVI file with different softwares using "properties" or "statistics", the AVI is shown as being 1280 X720, both frame rate (30fps) and actual frame rate just below 30fps, with the correct number of frames for the duration of the video and video compression is shown as Huffyuv.
Today, I captured a 10 second test video through a Shorttube 80 aimed at a TV screen with a moving banner. The video was captured at 1280X720 resolution at 30fps using the Huffyuv codec. The 10 second AVI file is 197 MB and too large to post. There were 25 dropped frames out of the 297 frames captured. 297-25 dropped frames= 272 frames. 272 frames/9.9 seconds = 27.5 frame rate.
I opened the AVI file in 6 video programs and properties/statistics obtained for the file are shown in the pic below.
I looked at all of the frames in K3CCDtools and because of the moving banner, I could confirm that every frame was unique. I used K3CCDTools to export the first 30 frames captured during the first minute of the 10 minute AVI file. Frames were reduced from 1280X720 to 320X180 size to keep the animation file from being too large. The animated GIF file (730K) below was created in Photoshop by layering all 30 frames at 0.2 seconds duration each:
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/test/LifecamCinematest30fpsGIF.html
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Chote]
#3556372 - 01/12/10 02:46 PM
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Chote,
The Microsoft Cinema Lifecam HD does not have the onion ring effect. The Logitech Pro9000 does have the onion ring effect on planets and is the reason I don't use it for planets.
I didn't reuse the stock glass plate on the front of the Microsoft Lifecam because I mounted mine inside eyepiece barrel extenders. But, it most likely is not of high quality optically for astro imaging....just a guess on my part. I use a 1.25" Baader UV/IR filter so my imaging chip is protected buy it. We go through a lot of effort to capture planetary images, so you might want to consider replacing that with a clear polished and coated optical glass.
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3556590 - 01/12/10 04:41 PM
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Gary,
What you presented above could be valid, but all this describes qualities of already captured file. Eventhough you are saying each frame is unique: there is no conformation of that and you should agree this is subjective (at least at 30fps).
Please confirm, if you are using K3CCDTools: In Devices menu: -- You are setting Device to WDM, Right? -- Then you select Microsoft LifeCam Cinema, Right?
If so: now we goto Video Capture menu and select Video Format: Do you see YUY2 at 1280*720 and 30fps? I don't!!!
So, now we goto Options menu: -- you see Frame rate at 30fps there ==> but this is your recording output frame rate, not capturing frame rate; -- press Video Format button => and capturing filter property sheet will popup => here is real capturing rate!
Do you see 30FPS there at 1280*720 in YUY2? I don't! I only see it in MJPG...
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3556635 - 01/12/10 05:06 PM
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igor 1960,
I'm becoming frustrated by your comments because it is obvious you are not reading (or maybe understanding) what I am posting in my replies. You seem to have a command of the English language so I don't think it is due to a translation service, if English is not your first language.
You wrote: "What you presented above could be valid, but all this describes qualities of already captured file. Eventhough you are saying each frame is unique: there is no conformation of that and you should agree this is subjective (at least at 30fps)."
My reply: If you look at the 30 frame animation link that I posted in my previous reply, you can clearly see that each of the 30 frames captured during the first second of the AVI file are unique.
If you want to continue this disussion, I would be pleased to disuss this with you further by private mail.
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3556666 - 01/12/10 05:22 PM
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Gary,
I understand your frustration (I will skip my comment about my English language skills, as I want to be friendly and respecful).
Yes, I saw yours 30 frames animation and if true and those frames are converted from 1280*720 YUY2 @30fps => you are absolutely right and my comments are not valid.
However, just to help me and possibly others, could you please follow instructions in my previous post and tell me what settings are you using in K3CCDTools to achieve 30fps 1280*720 YUY2.
Are you using WDM selection? or Video for Windows?
Edited by igor1960 (01/12/10 05:23 PM)
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3557158 - 01/12/10 09:26 PM
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Folks,
Assuming the sensor is indeed type-1/4" OV9712 as Gary had stated, (and I don't know the USB2 transfer/combo IC's part number so I just assume it does not do anything but just facilitates Imager to USB2 {edited} isochronous transfer), then:
1. Per datasheet brief, the sensor's main capability is to pump out image data as raw 10bit per pixel on its parallel bus.
2. Assuming USB2/Combo chip does not compress the data, the data rate seen on the USB2 high-speed serial bus will be 1280*720*10 (bit/pixel) * 30 (frames/sec) = 276.5 Mbps before USB overhead is added. This number is lower than USB2 high-speed's line speed of 480 Mbps.
3. PC's USB2 receiver will get such data and first processed by low-level driver. If PC's CPU can handle such load, the frame may not be dropped.
Using HFYVY2 (huffyuv) as an example:
4. For local in-PC processing, the device driver performs:
- debayer, color space conversion, and decimation: convert RGGB quad pixels to YUV (not RGB) format; and YUV is reduced to 4:2:2 for color data reduction (spatial resolution-wise is still OK for Bayer array based image sensor). Also note that the YUV data is 8-bit value only. Each 4 resulted pixels is presented by 8 Byte values (Y1 Y2 Y3 Y4 U1 U3 V1 V3). The data rate (not exposed to the external world) will be 1280*720*16*30 = 442.4 Mbps (from pure processing point of view)
- the DirectShow based (i.e., WDM) driver behavior is based on the output "pin" selection. In this case, HFYUY2 is selected.
- Such YUV4:2:2 data is further compressed down by lossless compression Huffman code table lookup. Per Gary's screen capture of decoded AVI file, the compression ratio is about 2.65:1, resulting data rate of 167 Mbps.
- Such data stream is encapsulated into AVI "carrier envelope".
- The compacted data is easier for local hard-disk storage.
I hope this info helps.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3557290 - 01/12/10 10:31 PM
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Thanks for the very helpful analysis!
I tried many compression codecs and Huffyuv, although it's an old one, gave the best lossless codec result with the Lifecam. My understanding is that Huffyuv lossless compression is usually around 2:1 to 3:1 and that's in line with your 2.65:1 calculation. The resulting AVI files are quite large, but as long as the HD Rez is being captured lossless for best quality at 30 fps with few frames dropped, the large file size is acceptable for planetary imaging. Especially with the large capacity hard drives now available and at dropping prices.
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3557388 - 01/12/10 11:26 PM
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ccs_hello,
First, I assume they are using OV538-B88 as USB bridge (per description here http://www.ovt.com/products/ip_detail.php?id=9)
Secondly, about USB2 traffic and restrictions you might read good and pretty detailed explanation here:
http://codelaboratories.com/research/view/ps3eye-not-your-typical-webcam,
as PS3Eye uses the same OV538 USB bridge.
While, I doubt they send Bayer, but assuming they debayer it on PC, as you are suggesting -- which module does that? Obviously WDM driver, Right?
HFYUY2 codec gets connected only downstream from capturing WDM driver in the graph, Right?
So, that was my original question to Gary -- what WDM driver he is using?
What does he see in properties of output "pin" from whatever capturing WDM driver he is using?
What is the name of that driver? Gary said it's "LifeCam", but it is disabled? How could he use it if it is disabled?
Then what driver is used?
So, to answer those questions, as Gary said he doesn't know what Graphedit is, I proposed him to look into program he is using: K3CCDTools
Are you using WDM selection? I assume it is WDM as Video for Windows has much lower max resolution.
What fromat do you see in Device Settings?
Edited by igor1960 (01/13/10 12:37 AM)
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3557575 - 01/13/10 04:38 AM
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Gary,
I have a system with connected Lifecam and all actions performed as you did. However, I'm not getting 1280*720 YUY @30fps setting.
I think this is important for you and others to establish the reason. Maybe MSFT changed hardware implementation from version of your cam to mine. I'm experienced on software side and just proposing my free help. If you don't want it -- fine.
But if you do, lets investigate what exact device is connected to yours USB port and what capabilities it has.
To do that, please, download UVCView.exe from this site ftp://ftp.efo.ru/pub/ftdichip/Utilities/UVCView.x86.exe and run it. You should see all your USB ports on the left pane and you should see USB Composite device at places of connection. So, click on each and find the one that will show "Microsoft® LifeCam Cinema(TM)" in Product Name in the right pane. On my machine beginning of looks like that:
---===>Device Information<===---
English product name: "Microsoft® LifeCam Cinema(TM)"
ConnectionStatus:
Current Config Value: 0x01 -> Device Bus Speed: High
Device Address: 0x01
Open Pipes: 1
===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x83 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 3
bmAttributes: 0x03 -> Interrupt Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0008 = 1 transactions per microframe, 0x08 max bytes
bInterval: 0x08
===>Device Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x12
bDescriptorType: 0x01
bcdUSB: 0x0200
bDeviceClass: 0xEF -> This is a Multi-interface Function Code Device
bDeviceSubClass: 0x02 -> This is the Common Class Sub Class
bDeviceProtocol: 0x01 -> This is the Interface Association Descriptor protocol
bMaxPacketSize0: 0x40 = (64) Bytes
idVendor: 0x045E = Microsoft Corporation
idProduct: 0x075D
bcdDevice: 0x0100
iManufacturer: 0x01
English (United States) "Microsoft"
iProduct: 0x02
English (United States) "Microsoft® LifeCam Cinema(TM)"
iSerialNumber: 0x00
bNumConfigurations: 0x01
===>Configuration Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x02
wTotalLength: 0x0595 -> Validated
bNumInterfaces: 0x04
bConfigurationValue: 0x01
iConfiguration: 0x00
bmAttributes: 0x80 -> Bus Powered
MaxPower: 0xFA = 500 mA
...
So scroll down in the right pane untill you see first
===>Video Streaming Uncompressed Format Type Descriptor<===
It should show something like that:
===>Video Streaming Uncompressed Format Type Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x1B
bDescriptorType: 0x24
bDescriptorSubtype: 0x04
bFormatIndex: 0x01
bNumFrameDescriptors: 0x0C
guidFormat: {32595559-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71} = YUY2 Format
bBitsPerPixel: 0x10
bDefaultFrameIndex: 0x00
bAspectRatioX: 0x00
bAspectRatioY: 0x00
bmInterlaceFlags: 0x00
D0 = 0x00 Interlaced stream or variable: No
D1 = 0x00 Fields per frame: 2 fields
D2 = 0x00 Field 1 first: No
D3 = 0x00 Reserved
D4..5 = 0x00 Field patterns -> Field 1 only
D6..7 = 0x00 Display Mode -> Bob only
bCopyProtect: 0x00 -> Duplication Unrestricted
This is descriptor for YUY2 Format.
After that it should show all supported YUY2 formats each in its separate:
===>Video Streaming Uncompressed Frame Type Descriptor<===
So, scroll down until you find section where
wWidth: 0x0500
wHeight: 0x02D0
This section of YUY2 descriptor is 1280*720 (converted to hex).
On my machine that section looks like that:
===>Video Streaming Uncompressed Frame Type Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x22
bDescriptorType: 0x24
bDescriptorSubtype: 0x05
bFrameIndex: 0x02
bmCapabilities: 0x01
wWidth: 0x0500
wHeight: 0x02D0
dwMinBitRate: 0x06978000
dwMaxBitRate: 0x08CA0000
dwMaxVideoFrameBufferSize: 0x001C2000
dwDefaultFrameInterval: 0x000F4240
bFrameIntervalType: 0x02
===>Additional Discrete Frame Type Data
dwFrameInterval[1]: 0x000F4240
dwFrameInterval[2]: 0x00145855
...
Do you see that there are 2 dwFrameIntervals there
dwFrameInterval[1]: 0x000F4240
dwFrameInterval[2]: 0x00145855
Those are in ns units
0x000F4240 is equal to 1000000 decimal
0x00145855 is equal to 1333333 decimal
So to convert to FPS we should
10000000/1000000 = 10fps
10000000/1333333 = 7.5fps
So those are only two possibly available speeds reported by my LifeCam hardware for 1280*720 YUY2. Remember, this has nothing to do with what drivers you are using ==> this is pure hardware information reported by USB device during connection.
So, please check this on your working system and see if this matches mine and/or there are some differences.
Edited by igor1960 (01/13/10 04:43 AM)
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3557587 - 01/13/10 04:52 AM
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Igor,
I suspect it may use OV550 as the USB transfer IC, see product brief here.
Also note in the description, it stated for 1280*720 resolution, two processing options:
- 30 fps for raw (each pixel is 10 bit) and
- 15 fps for deBayered YUV2 (deBayered by OV550 and subsampled to 4:2:2 and A/D bit-depth is dropped to 8 bit, while the work is performed by the webcam hardware.) Note: color pixel information for YUV2 is 16 bit per pixel.
This is consistent with my calculated number in earlier post.
Also see similar device's driver information linky here especially on the .inf file.
Note that there are few .sys files
OVTUSB2 (for USB isochronous transfer)
OVTCAM2 (deBayer stuff) <- camera control and possible software based debayer, downsampling, etc.
Probably at this point the video class device will show up in DSPlayer as having a 1280*720 YUV 4:4:4 as its native output. Now connect Huffyuv filter (the huffyuv.ax DS filter file) to get Huffman lossless compressed 1280*720 4:2:2 output for file sink to a named file to a hard disk.
I do not have such webcam nor driver files so I am guessing.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3557601 - 01/13/10 05:18 AM
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Quote:
...
So to convert to FPS we should
10000000/1000000 = 10fps
10000000/1333333 = 7.5fps
So those are only two possibly available speeds reported by my LifeCam hardware for 1280*720 YUY2. Remember, this has nothing to do with what drivers you are using ==> this is pure hardware information reported by USB device during connection.
So, please check this on your working system and see if this matches mine and/or there are some differences.
Igor,
Look to me the driver you are using always force the webcam hardware (e.g., OV550 USB chip) to perform hardware based deBayer and downsampling for you (thus YUV2 only), while Gary's can set the webcam to output raw as-is and have the PC software does the work.
As stated earlier, raw method's data rate is lower than in-camera YUV2 method thus less stress on USB2 bandwidth.
P.S. if you open a blank Graphedit and drop in the composite video (lifecam cinema HD) device, do you see it has the option to give you the raw RGBG or 4:4:4, in addition to YUV2?
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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igor1960
journeyman
Reged: 01/07/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3558326 - 01/13/10 01:55 PM
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ccs_hello,
>> I do not have such webcam nor driver files so I am guessing.
Exactly the difference. Theoreticaly everything is possible and explainable.
However, I do have camera and driver and everything.
And the only option I see is 1280*720 YUY2 at 10FPS on output pin of LifeCam, as well as UVC parameters in lifecam firmware shows the same.
Thats why I want Gary to clarify this for me.
>> if you open a blank Graphedit and drop in the composite video (lifecam cinema HD) device, do you see it has the option to give you the raw RGBG or 4:4:4, in addition to YUV2
No, with Garys sequence of removing MSFTs driver. You have only choice of YUY2 or MJPG...
MJPG @1280*720 gives you max 30fps on output pin
YUY2 @1280*720 gives you max 10fps on output pin
Edited by igor1960 (01/13/10 01:58 PM)
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JonKristoffersen
sage
Reged: 06/30/06
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3560439 - 01/14/10 12:40 PM
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I'd like to see more planet images from this camera, rather than technical discussions.
Gary, any chance of some tests on Mars? How good is this camera compared to a Toucam? Will I need a powerful computer to capture at high frame rates? Jon
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RedIrocZ-28
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/18/05
Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: JonKristoffersen]
#3560700 - 01/14/10 02:41 PM
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If the Lifecam will work on Win 7 I "may" pick one up. (money is tight these days.)
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: JonKristoffersen]
#3561267 - 01/14/10 08:24 PM
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Jon,
20" scope is on the driveway now. I wheel it out of the garage so it can cool down for imaging Mars, but unfortunately, I live in the land of the ice and snow, and everlasting clouds:( 
From testing I've done over the years with webcams as detailed on my website, the Logitech Fusion webcam gives better results than the Toucam for my setup, and I'm expecting from what I have seen so far that the LifeCam HD will best the Fusion.
My notebook is a few years old. It's an Intel Core DuoProcessor 1.8GHz with 4 Gig RAM. It runs the Lifecam HD well. My older 2.8GHz notebook with 2 Gig RAM can't get the higher frame rates. Accordng to Microsoft, 1.6GHz Dual Core CPU is minimum to get the webcam working and 3GHz is recommended.
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: JonKristoffersen]
#3567521 - 01/17/10 11:40 PM Attachment (304 downloads)
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Jon,
I was able to get first images of Mars with the Lifecam HD on 1/17. Seeing was poor along with high thin clouds but I was able to stack 55 of the better frames of a 4 min AVI file (7200 total frames). Captured in 1280X720 rez at 30 frames per second using the Huffyuv lossless codec.
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sthin25
newbie
Reged: 02/01/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: igor1960]
#3605249 - 02/04/10 06:45 PM
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Just received this camera, and I too have been trying in vain to get 720p 30fps lossless with HuffyUV, as Gary described.
Gary, I would really appreciate a step-by-step process of how you setup your program to use HuffyUV. You described in full how to get 30fps MJPG on your website, and here you described analyzing the output HuffyUV video to make sure it is 30fps. Could you describe the actual process you went through to capture in 30fps HuffyUV (which driver, which program, and which settings), so I can test it out?
It is possible that your filter chain is interpolating a lower frame rate capture into higher FPS, which would result in distinct frames, but some of which are artificially created. Depending on the interpolation algorithm, it may be difficult to tell the difference in the output file by eye, and impossible to tell for a program.
Regardless, thank you so much for your efforts!
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GiorgioDallaVia
newbie
Reged: 02/08/10
Loc: Gallarate (VA) - Italy - 45.66...
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3614138 - 02/09/10 06:29 AM
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Gary,
thank you for your review,I was so impressed by your results and review (also the one in your own website) that I had to get the camera... 
Anyway, similar story here... no way to get the webcam work in 1280*720@30fps in loseless format.
In Linux (thus without any MS driver), framerates allowed are 7.5 and 10 fps at that resolution in loseless format. Same under WinXP.
I'm not a IT genius nor a complete idiot, something in between... it would be helpful some step-by-step guide from you, since it seems that I'm not the only one having the problem.
Citing CSS_hello,:
"I suspect it may use OV550 as the USB transfer IC, see product brief here. Also note in the description, it stated for 1280*720 resolution, two processing options: - 30 fps for raw (each pixel is 10 bit) and - 15 fps for deBayered YUV2 (deBayered by OV550 and subsampled to 4:2:2 and A/D bit-depth is dropped to 8 bit, while the work is performed by the webcam hardware.) Note: color pixel information for YUV2 is 16 bit per pixel.... "
It seems to me that I'm not able to get the RAW processing option. Possibly it's my own fault, being rather new to all this stuff, but I really do not know where to select this option and how to make it work. Fore more information, under windows I can aquire AVIs under Iris or VirtualDub.
It would be appriciated some help from you... I can provide you more infos about codecs installed on the WinXP system just in case it can help.
Cheers and thanks in advance. Giorgio
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Gary Honis
Vendor-DSLR Mods
Reged: 12/15/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: GiorgioDallaVia]
#3616541 - 02/10/10 10:48 AM
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Hi Giorgio,
I don't have a step-by-step guide for installing the LifeCam HD Cinema. As explained on my web site I installed and uninstalled many capture softwares and video codecs over time for testing, in no particular order, so don't have a particular method that I can recommend. I don't have a good understanding of video codecs. Most of the testing I have done has been by trial and error. I also don't have any experience with Linux. It may be that the Microsoft WDM Image Capture (Win 32) driver is required?
In general I would suggest the following:
1. Install the Microsoft LifeCam HD Cinema driver from the disk that comes with the webcam. Test the camera.
2. Uninstall the Microsoft LifeCam HD Cinema driver.
3. Install the PIC Video 4 video codec.
4. Install the Huffyuv codec.
5. Install IC Capture.
6. In Capture PIN select 1280 X 720 resolution at 30 fps.
7. Select the Huffyuv lossless codec for compression method.
8. Test camera.
I have heard form others that have modified the LifeCam HD and are beginning to image with it. Luís Campos has posted some Saturn and Mars test images here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37419943@N08/
There has been an intermittant problem with the webcam that we are trying to resolve. After making the webcam setting adjustments, sometimes when the video capture is started, the brightness of the image changes. I've seen this happen with other webcams. There is a work-around but we're still looking for the cause and a good fix.
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GiorgioDallaVia
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Loc: Gallarate (VA) - Italy - 45.66...
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3616647 - 02/10/10 11:43 AM
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Thank you for your prompt reply, Gary.
Getting back home I will do some more testing. Being my Windows system rather "virgin", in case all will go in the right way it will be some kind of "installing from scrath" guide...
Will keep you informed about it G.
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zAmbonii
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: GiorgioDallaVia]
#3617688 - 02/10/10 09:56 PM
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I picked up a lifecam today just to see how it compares to my SPC900NC. I haven't pulled it of the box just yet. Hopefully we will have some clear skies sometime in the near future to give it a planetary/lunar test.
Edit: BTW....Office Depot has the Lifecam Cinema HD on sale for $60 through the end of the month if you have one near where you live.
Edited by zAmbonii (02/10/10 10:17 PM)
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dgpilot
sage
Reged: 09/25/09
Loc: Dublin, California
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: zAmbonii]
#3619030 - 02/11/10 03:42 PM
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Edit: BTW....Office Depot has the Lifecam Cinema HD on sale for $60 through the end of the month if you have one near where you live.
Thanks for the tip.. I was thinking about getting one this weekend. I'm more of a deep sky photographer with my Canon 50D, so I'm new to planetary imaging. In the past, I've used my meade DSI II pro, but i've found it to be pretty lackluster for that use.
Can anyone tell me the difference I should be able to see between the DSI and the Lifecam?
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RedIrocZ-28
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: zAmbonii]
#3619131 - 02/11/10 04:38 PM
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Quote:
I picked up a lifecam today just to see how it compares to my SPC900NC. I haven't pulled it of the box just yet. Hopefully we will have some clear skies sometime in the near future to give it a planetary/lunar test.
Edit: BTW....Office Depot has the Lifecam Cinema HD on sale for $60 through the end of the month if you have one near where you live.
Sweet, I was going to try one out. I think I'll wait and see what results you get first though
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zAmbonii
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: RedIrocZ-28]
#3619296 - 02/11/10 06:07 PM
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I've only played around with the came for a short bit last night and today. Been only playing around with it on my laptop so far.
Can only select 10fps or less for the HD captures for some reason (YUY2). Cant even select the HD resolution on K3CCDTools....I was able to before installing the HuffyUV codec. Weird.
I'm going to play around with it tonight some on my desktop, which has a better CPU/Faster HD....at once it used to be fast, but it is now an ancient computer .
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3664036 - 03/06/10 05:07 PM
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Just trying to clarify my previous post:
1) per one of the press release, OV9712 indeed is the sensor/sensor front-end IC
2) that sensor by itself can only output raw (10 bit or 8 bit)
The data is then handed off to the USB Camera Bridge IC.
(This is the reason I asked the board picture.)
If it's OV538, it can do either
- pass-thru as is (i.e., let PC side driver software does the deBayer + color space conversion), or
- hardware (on webcam side) deBayer + color space conversion
If it's OV550, it will only do
- pass-thru as is (either 8 bit raw or 10 bit raw pixel data)
Note that pass-thru is less taxing on USB2 bus, thus can do 720P @ 30fps, at least on the webcam side assuming that PC side has enough horsepower that can handle the rest;
while webcam hardware-based deBayer+color space will drop the frame rate down to max. 15fps. (Since YUV422 or YUV420 consumes more bandwidth.)
The camera USB bridging chip will be recognized as USB Video Class (UVC) device.
On PC side, one (with proper insight into device setting) can set UVC device's parameters (e.g., send raw only, disable AGC/manual gain, Blue-gain, Green-gain,Blue-whitebalance, Red-whitebalance, set auto-exposure-control (or manual time), etc. ) There are too many to list and some may be obscured by the camera USB bridging IC which by itself is a 8051 microcontroller).
My take: very fancy, but requires a lot of time to working through this and currently have to live with what it provided (most likely presumed to be most useful by the webcam designer in the most common scenario.)
Also note that when people taking about HFYUV or MJPEG etc., these task has been on the PC side of operations. If there is no 30fps HD feed coming in from the USB bus in the first place (i.e., need raw), there is no hope just by PC side software to get to 30fps.
{edit 1} On the other hand, if a PC side setting can force the webcam (especially on the Bridging IC to select the raw, if that IC can do both raw and deBayer and chose to do the latter) to do the right thing (let PC software takes care of the deBayer), that will be nice.
{edit 2} if the UVC setting is too smart, e.g., by setting one parameter (such as white balance or some checkboxes), which may force the webcam to do hardware deBayer, then all bets are off.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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Preston F
member
Reged: 02/11/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#3693699 - 03/20/10 01:30 PM
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I recently did the lifecam mod myself by following Gary's instructions (Thanks Gary!).
I discovered that you can actually skip steps 6 and 7 becuase step 12 removes the mount. This should make things easier becuase steps 6,7 are kind of a pain.
Also, I used a t-mount part from Edmund Optics which gives the camera a female t-mount instead of a 1.25" tube. NT52-293
To make it work, I had to use sandpaper on the part to increase the diameter of the opening by 1mm. It took me about 15min and then it fit life a glove. The front of the lifecam will push-fit into the retainer ring of the part (I glued it for extra stability) which will thread into the inner threads of the part. This gives the camera a t-thread and by turning the camera, the innner threads will allow you to adjust the back focus distance. The minimum distance will be about 20mm from sensor to t-mount.
I happened to have one of these as well: Orion Camera Adapter Which will screw onto the back male t-thread and cover up the exposed back end of the camera as well as provide a convenient excess cable storage becuase the cable is not removeable.
Hope this helps,
Preston
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midnightblue
super member
Reged: 09/03/08
Loc: over the hill
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Preston F]
#3694502 - 03/20/10 09:12 PM
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Could someone please test this camera to see if its compatible with EQAlign 2.0 before I commit to purchasing Thanks
Gary great moon tour when's the next one
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3694883 - 03/21/10 12:38 AM Attachment (209 downloads)
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Just wish to explain that the device-specific driver shipped with the CinemaHD cam, from Windows Driver Model (WDM) point of view supports RGB24 (fastest frame rate 1280*720 @ 15 fps in a fast WinXP PC) and I420 (no HD). If uninstalling the device-specific driver, the generic/universal USB Video Class (UVC) class driver will be installed. In UVC mode also under WDM, YUV2 (1280*720 @ 10 fps) and M-JPEG (1280*720 @ 30 fps) are supported.
I suspect may be there was an earlier hardware (USB bridge IC), a firmware code (the latest update is version 1033), and/or a different driver which will support what Gary said. Likely it may not use WDM but send CMOS sensor data as-is (raw), which is unusual in WDM framework sending color sensor raw data out as if its a monochrome sensor (i.e., Y800) and let PC side software to do deBayer. This is good for bandwidth saving to fit HD high frame rate like 30 fps into USB 2.0 high-speed isochronous pipe.
The next screenshot shows the WDM implementation through Graphedit
- UVC video from Cinema HD at 1280*720 YUV2 @ 10 fps
<--- this is the lower filter (probably both nx6000 and usbvideo drivers and some functions might take place in webcam's USB bridge IC.)
- then the rest are all downstream software running on PC
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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GiorgioDallaVia
newbie
Reged: 02/08/10
Loc: Gallarate (VA) - Italy - 45.66...
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3703145 - 03/24/10 07:33 PM
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Thank you ccs_hello for your reply, now I'm more focused on what's going on from the chip to the hard disk.
I guess now all the topic comes back to Gary, if he can explain something about drivers he is using for the cam. It could be something coming from previous installations of other sw/hw he had, but a further explanation of this point could really be helpful to happily reproduce the performances he had.
It's more than 1 month that i have the cam, no matter the OS I'm using, I cannot go beyond 15@HD. Fortunately, we had cloudy nights (!) all the month, thus I haven't lost any good observing night.
Hope that this will be clarified, because it could be a step forward for all us of the community.
Cheers to all G.
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Oleg Astro
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Reged: 08/12/08
Loc: Zaporozhye 47°50'N 35°12'E, Uk...
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: GiorgioDallaVia]
#3835414 - 05/29/10 01:38 PM
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Is here anybody who use the Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam under OS Ubuntu?
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Rat8bug
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: ccs_hello]
#3836888 - 05/30/10 12:09 PM
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I picked one up at Office Max for $49.99 on 24 May. Not sure how long the sale will last. Almost bought two :-)
Ciao....Barry
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darethehair
member
Reged: 09/11/09
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Oleg Astro]
#4001534 - 08/23/10 03:00 PM
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Is here anybody who use the Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam under OS Ubuntu?
Sorry for the late reply, but 'yes', I am using my LifeCam Cinema under Ubuntu Linux -- well, it is actually Mint Linux 9, but Mint is derived from Ubuntu (as you probably know). Right now, my webcam is just being used for Skype.
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einzelhaft
newbie
Reged: 07/20/08
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: Gary Honis]
#4179864 - 11/11/10 09:49 PM
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Has anyone else been able to get the supposed uncompressed 30fps from this camera? I just got mine, and have tried all the things Gary mentions in his docs, but I can't even get above 10fps in 3rd party applications (virtual dub, open video capture, etc)....
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PiotrM
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: einzelhaft]
#4179895 - 11/11/10 10:10 PM
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Try SharpCap. I have LifeCam HD-5000 and from what I've noticed it can do ~30FPS. The Cinema version is bit different and I've read in some post that initialy it was released with slower frame rate.
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gip100
newbie
Reged: 11/08/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: PiotrM]
#4184558 - 11/14/10 08:40 AM
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Anyone ever consiter modifying a Microsoft 1080p LifeCam Studio.
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PiotrM
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: gip100]
#4184668 - 11/14/10 10:01 AM
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Just remove the lens, any lens covers, add 1,25" nosepiece and you can start playing But I would rather not recommend those in very compact housing like Lifecam 5000/6000-HD as they are hard to breake apart :] I'll be testing the HD-5000 lifecam today if it won't make any problems after demolition with a hot blade
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uzunu
member
Reged: 09/21/10
Loc: Bucharest, Romania
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: PiotrM]
#4233571 - 12/07/10 05:19 AM
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Did it yesterday on a LifeCam Cinema HD which I bought both for imaging and guiding. It all went pretty well apart from the dreaded step 7 and the annoying blue LED whom I buried inside a huge blob of acrylic black paint.
I've installed the camera inside a cheap chinese 25mm, 1.25" eyepiece, using a 35mm film container as a back-cap. I will buy a UV/IR cut filter to fit in front of the CMOS, both as a dust seal and IR cutter as, for the moment, I can't find a correct white balance because of IR pollution.
As for software glitches, I had none. The camera had been recognized instantly by my imaging laptop (an 1.33GHz Atom with 2GB of RAM), SharpCap acquires images at 720p/30fps in MJPG mode and 720p/10fps in YUY2 mode, while PHDGuiding even allows me some crude gain correction.
All in all, thanks Gary for the detailed article and thanks to the guy that suggested using a cheap eyepiece housing. I'm praying for the clouds to clear around my home and for me to find the time to go out and start playing
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: uzunu]
#4233574 - 12/07/10 05:31 AM
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The LifeCams tend to give red color balance (even with Ir/UV cut).
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uzunu
member
Reged: 09/21/10
Loc: Bucharest, Romania
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: PiotrM]
#4233598 - 12/07/10 06:29 AM
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I can *almost* find the correct white balance at about 4700K in broad daylight, but the image still remains somewhat purple-shifted. The IR pollution can also be seen in the relative softness of the resulting image as different wavelengths focus at different distances. I can definitely see the purple glow surrounding a white object as IR focuses closer than visual light.
If the LifeCam still doesn't give me a neutral white balance after installing the IR filter, I can always add a pale blue filter as a supplement.
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: uzunu]
#4233612 - 12/07/10 06:42 AM
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You can fix the colors in the processing of the final image.
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RedIrocZ-28
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: PiotrM]
#4235906 - 12/08/10 10:35 AM
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I got Purple images when I did a test of the QuickCam 5000 a few years back. There was NO way to adjust the camera's settings to get the image to look correct on screen. I blamed it on the CMOS sensor in that camera.
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claytonbigwood
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: uzunu]
#4237845 - 12/09/10 05:43 AM
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Quote:
I can *almost* find the correct white balance at about 4700K in broad daylight, but the image still remains somewhat purple-shifted. The IR pollution can also be seen in the relative softness of the resulting image as different wavelengths focus at different distances. I can definitely see the purple glow surrounding a white object as IR focuses closer than visual light.
If the LifeCam still doesn't give me a neutral white balance after installing the IR filter, I can always add a pale blue filter as a supplement.
What optics are you using? as significant CA normally doesn't occur in reflectors, and Blue comes to focus before Red in an uncorrected refractor?
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: claytonbigwood]
#4237852 - 12/09/10 05:53 AM
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With IR passing Astronomik Pro Planet 742 the image was bit like violet, so those cameras are bit odd. Tend to add red/magenta to the images?
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uzunu
member
Reged: 09/21/10
Loc: Bucharest, Romania
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: claytonbigwood]
#4238785 - 12/09/10 03:41 PM
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It's definitely not CA. The image is purple, not violet. Also, a white piece of paper in front of the camera with no lens attached will, at the best WB, give a hint of purple. I really hope this behaviour will change tomorrow when the UV/IR cut filter will arrive.
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uzunu
member
Reged: 09/21/10
Loc: Bucharest, Romania
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: uzunu]
#4240037 - 12/10/10 08:47 AM
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Got my Baader UV/IR cut filter today. The difference in daylight is amazing. The filter basically cuts all the purpleness in the image. It also gives a MUCH sharper image to begin with. It is to note that the plane of focus changes drastically, by about 0.5" at the focuser tube on a 5.5" f/4.5 newtonian. Tomorrow I shall see what the filter accomplishes in the field.
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anyone
newbie
Reged: 01/21/11
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: uzunu]
#4330312 - 01/21/11 05:27 PM
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Hello,
i have a question to all who have dismantled that Webcam. You probably removed the autofouce module but i hope someone still has it.
For my purpose i need that unit still attached to the sensir. But its to big. Im wondering if i can grind the casing down about but im afraid of damaging the internal optics.
So if anyone still has the autofoucus module around could you take me some pictures how it looks inside?
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Fred76
super member
Reged: 11/25/08
Loc: Normandy, France
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modification
[Re: anyone]
#4466275 - 03/22/11 12:41 PM
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It should be worth setting the HuffyUV codec RGB to Huffyuv / Predict left, no decorrelation.
See : http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley.edu/benrg/huffyuv.html#Configuring
I will test tonite.
---after testing---
Well, first of all, with Vista it is not easy to find the codec dialog box. I found an access via VirtualDub :
File > Capture AVI
then
Video > Compression
Selecting any of the HuffyUV setting does not change the FPS.
I also tried the Lagarith Lossless codec, but again it does not change the FPS.
I still have 10 or 7.5 fps available for the 1280x720p HD.
My computer is an Acer 4935 with a Centrino and running Vista 32b.
Fred
Edited by Fred76 (03/22/11 02:22 PM)
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Fred76
super member
Reged: 11/25/08
Loc: Normandy, France
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Gary Honis]
#4471201 - 03/24/11 03:21 PM
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Quote:
1. IC Capture - works perfect 2. AMCAP - works perfect 3. Open Video Capture - captures perfect but preview freezes during adjustments 4. K3CCDTOOLS3 - captures perfect but preview freezes during adjustments 5. VirtualDub - captures perfect but preview not available during adjustments 6. wxAstroCapture - dropped frames - low capture frame rate 7. Debut Video Capture - MJPG not an option 8. NeoExpress3 Capture Video - MJPG not an option 9. QCfocus - high definition resolution not available
If anyone has a capture software they would like me to test with the LifeCam HD, let me know.
SharpCap seems to capture perfectly.
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Fred76]
#4476091 - 03/26/11 06:09 PM
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I'm planning to check the 1080p MS LifeCam Studio - as a guider (whole webcam piggyback on the scope) and for lunary/planetary imaging. It should have bigger sensor... and maybe MS will reply about sensors used in those webcams.
The HD-5000 looks like it's much better than SPC900/880 (ICX098) webcams in terms of sensitivity (easily gets bright Saturn), and you get USB 2.0, ROI-like functionality. It could even challenge DBK21/31.
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: PiotrM]
#4491619 - 04/02/11 02:45 PM
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I made a qick test of MS LifeCam studio (the biggest cam they have - 1080p) and it did work nicely (not modded webcam). It can do 1920 x 1080 at max 10 FPS. At 640 x 480 it can do 30 FPS (works like ROI at "max" zoom). Those OmniVision sensors look very nice.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2zi5w85.jpg - single frame http://i55.tinypic.com/6j0k2d.jpg - stack 40
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Mick Hyde
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 11/22/06
Loc: Swindon, UK
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: PiotrM]
#4497406 - 04/05/11 06:11 AM
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Is this MS LifeCam studio any good for lunar imaging? I'm looking for some more pixels.
Does anyone have any examples?
Edited by Mick Hyde (04/05/11 06:12 AM)
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Mick Hyde]
#4497446 - 04/05/11 06:57 AM
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I didn't broke it apart yet. It has bigger sensors as reviews say, but OmniVision didn't replyed which board it uses. I used the HD-5000 for some lunar experiments. Works nicely with IR filters (ProPlanet 742)
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Fred76
super member
Reged: 11/25/08
Loc: Normandy, France
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: PiotrM]
#4673086 - 07/04/11 10:28 AM
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Any news on the correct setup to reach 30fps in YUV ?
Fred
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LostBoyNZ
member
Reged: 07/13/11
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Fred76]
#4762905 - 08/22/11 06:35 PM
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I've followed the instructions and also can't get 30fps in YUV here. But I'm looking forward to getting my telescope setup (Meade LX200 8" ACF) and giving this a go as it is.
At the moment all I see is a blur of color from the webcam, which changes brightness as I move it around from dark to light. But I guess the blur of color is because the lens isn't attached to the sensor anymore?
But when I attach it to the telescope, that becomes the lens, so it'll look fine. I assume that's right, and I didn't break the webcam somehow, lol.
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bunyon
Carpal Tunnel
   
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: LostBoyNZ]
#4762942 - 08/22/11 07:04 PM
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That sounds right. Without a lens, you just have unfocused light.
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AFAdrenaline
sage
Reged: 12/08/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: bunyon]
#4764203 - 08/23/11 11:48 AM Attachment (111 downloads)
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Yep, that was my experience as well...
Mick, you asked about the MS Lifecam Studio... I ended up breaking it down side by side with the Lifecam Cinema... While I don't have the technical specifics of the sensor it's much larger. Unfortunately I haven't been able to use it yet... terrible conditions or away from home on business... hopefully I'll get to finally put them to use this weekend.
Anyways, the thread where I modded the Studio is here: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4730676/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1
Thanks to Gary as I relied heavily on your Cinema mod instructions as a rough map of what to do in the Studio.
Oh, and I've followed the instructions but can't get 30fps in YUV either...
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AFAdrenaline
sage
Reged: 12/08/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: AFAdrenaline]
#4764211 - 08/23/11 11:53 AM Attachment (166 downloads)
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oh... and a comparison of the two sensors. Lifecam Cinema on the Left and Studio on the Right. The Studio's sensor has roughly twice the area as the Cinema's!
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Fred76
super member
Reged: 11/25/08
Loc: Normandy, France
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: AFAdrenaline]
#4819471 - 09/21/11 03:42 AM
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Anyway, here is a mosaic of the moon taken with a Newton 150/750 and a Lifecam Cinema. Capture with SharpCap and stacking with Registax.
http://www.sah.123.fr/forum/download/file.php?id=3&mode=view
Fred
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Juiced
member
   
Reged: 09/15/11
Loc: Charleston, SC
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Fred76]
#4840864 - 10/03/11 08:29 AM
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Great moon shot Fred.
Can you please give a few spec on your process for getting that detailed photo. (Us newbies want to learn)!
Was it a Modified camera? Scope used?
How many AVI frames? That kind of info.
Thanks!
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Fred76
super member
Reged: 11/25/08
Loc: Normandy, France
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Juiced]
#4879126 - 10/25/11 09:34 AM
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Oups, i forgot to answer...
Webcam Lifecam Cinema, modded to fit inside a 1"1/4 ocular tube, and IR cut filter. Installed at the prime focus of my Skywatcher Newton 150/750 (no Barlow). Acquisition with SharpCap in YUV mode, 1280x720 @ 10 fps (can't go faster). 7 films of 1min30, Registax 5.1. I don't remember how many images I took among each film, probably 30-40% of them.
Fred
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JoeThePro
member
Reged: 11/04/09
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Fred76]
#4890794 - 10/31/11 06:51 PM
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When you say it runs at 10fps, is it 10fps @ 1/10 sec exposure, or is it 10 fps at 1/30 sec exposure? Just wondering if it can actually be set to do true 1/10 sec exposures, or greater even.
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rjsc2000
sage
Reged: 09/21/06
Loc: Portugal
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: JoeThePro]
#4893421 - 11/02/11 09:28 AM
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I don't think you can set the exposure on this webcam. Can you?
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/10
Loc: Poland
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: rjsc2000]
#4893432 - 11/02/11 09:33 AM
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You can, a bit.
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rjsc2000
sage
Reged: 09/21/06
Loc: Portugal
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: PiotrM]
#4895340 - 11/03/11 09:27 AM
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how?
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PiotrM
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/10
Loc: Poland
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: rjsc2000]
#4895413 - 11/03/11 10:21 AM
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In SharpCap you may alter the exposure time. From very low to somewhere close to 1 sec.
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Flappytango
member
Reged: 09/12/11
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: PiotrM]
#4949166 - 12/04/11 06:39 AM
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FYI,
For anyone interested in doing a lifecam conversion and don't have old eyepieces laying around...
here you can find lifecam adapter a neat little lifecam adapter. i bought a few of their other pieces in past, like their spc adapter, and they were very nice.
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Bachus
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/25/05
Loc: Nashville,TN.
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Flappytango]
#4949320 - 12/04/11 09:56 AM
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Hello
pardon the "newbie" stuff here since I'm just getting around to being interested in this but I'm a little lost on just what is needed in terms of drivers and codecs. I have no issue tearing into this and doing the actual mod part but it's just what is needed software wise.
I've seen use this, install that, uninstall this, will work here and won't work there that my head is spinning. I'll probably just stay with the MS Lifecam Cinema since my laptop is only a Duo Core 1.6GHz and I'm running XP. Just what is it I need to DL and use? And I take it I do need to "install and then uninstall the MS Lifecam Driver"?
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Lithos
newbie
Reged: 04/04/12
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Bachus]
#5157051 - 04/05/12 02:36 AM
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Hello
One thing I am wondering about my Lifecam Cinema HD is that there is this thin film of what looks like clear palstic or tape that has been plopped over the sensor, visible on the first image of this thread.
Should this be removed? or should I let it be? looking at it it definitely does not look like something of fine optical quality, but no modification guide mentions if it should be removed or not.
As for question of Bachus, I needed to install no MS lifecam driver on my Win7 computer. I just plugged the camera in and everything seems to work on sharpcap.
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Tanchistu
member
Reged: 01/04/12
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Lithos]
#5164868 - 04/10/12 10:02 AM
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For a while my Lifecam was working at 30fps full resolution, but since yesterday it would not work at more than 6-7fps.
I have tried to uninstall the MS driver, but as soon as I plug the camera back in, it reinstalls. How can I uninstall the drivers for good?
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starfall00
member
Reged: 12/23/10
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: Tanchistu]
#5515230 - 11/11/12 10:44 PM Attachment (81 downloads)
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Hi,
I will leave here my humble contribution to the topic. An old picture of the Moon taken on September 4, 2012.
Technical specs: Telescope: reflector GSO 6" F/5 Camera: webcam Microsoft Lifecam Cinema Mount: EQ-5 with homemade motorization Processing: iMerge, Registax 6 e Gimp
I had to reduce resolution and quality to post here (by forum rules), but I will try to allocate it on Flickr with full resolution.
Clear and dark skies for us, Delberson.
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hectar
member
Reged: 12/24/12
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: starfall00]
#5591818 - 12/27/12 09:00 PM
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Just picked up microsoft lifelesscam cinema HD webcam, which is on sale now at Staples (Ontario, Canada) for 39$ . (sale ends January 4, 2013). Please share your experiences/images/links here if you are still using it. Thanks!
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ROursamajor
member
Reged: 09/16/12
Loc: Braila, Romania
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Re: Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD Webcam Modificatio
[Re: hectar]
#5593833 - 12/29/12 06:21 AM
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Did anyone modified a Lifecam 6000HD? I bought one and I want to start making a backup camera for my Canon 550D.
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