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Hillbrad
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Sunspot]
      #5066068 - 02/10/12 07:26 PM

I second that..it took me a little practice but once you get the hang of the APs I haven't got any seems on Jupiter or Mars. Haven't tried Saturn yet but I'm sure it's the same.

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Kokatha man
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Hillbrad]
      #5066158 - 02/10/12 08:13 PM

Well, in the spirit of sharing fellas, let's see a few screenshots from ya's to demo your latest (say) Mars MAPS positions..!

I've been handicapped by pc glitches (which now seem sorted) and actually had to retrieve avi's from my laptop using Pandora Recovery for the trials.....

But I have to say that once I got a very basic hang of the operations (and for this I had to resort to looking at your videos for the much earlier version of AS! Emil) I am pretty darn impressed..!

Lawd knows what I first did (took about 3/4 hour for AS! to process..! ) but after that I was quite astounded.....loading avi's into it and it whirring through in a minute or two (although I do use an 8-thread machine )

I'm quite impressed with what seems like a substantial jump in image quality output - and I'm still right at the elementary stage of getting to know the software.....I just placed 4 overlapping MAP boxes (size=80) centred around the limb peripheries and a smaller (40) one encompasssing the NPC but I'll retry the "Edge" method also and play with the boxes a bit more and see what transpires.....

A couple of things to comment upon - being a lazy son-of-a-gun who uses his handpiece to correct whilst capturing (I'm a travellin' imager most of the time ) I'm finding that there is that slight difficulty with RGB alignment that I'd also get if I didn't Ninox (crop & centre) in my prior processing regimens.....would Castrator used before AS! assist therein as Ninox used to....?

Also doubly-impressed 'cos even though I only used 5 alignment boxes and the Mars avi I used isn't fantastic.....with R6 I couldn't use MAPs without ending up with seams - and had to resort to CofG alignment with selfsame Ninox'd avi's..!

I took to assigning a folder/directory to each avi prior to AS! so that it deposited the stacks (with prefixes) where I knew/wanted them, so that wasn't any real problem.

Pretty sure I'm going to be a convert after only very brief elementary play-around.....lawdy, all that preparatory work with Vdub and Ninox and then Reggie chugging away.....I'd almost be prepared to kiss you Emil - if your chickens wouldn't get jealous..!


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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5066639 - 02/11/12 03:27 AM Attachment (76 downloads)

Hoi Emil,
Tied again with the same alignment settings as in your example and after sharpening in Registax 6 I had this result.
Nobody else has this ?


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MvZ
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5066764 - 02/11/12 08:23 AM

> I'm finding that there is that slight difficulty with RGB alignment that I'd also get if I didn't Ninox (crop & centre) in my prior processing regimens.....would Castrator used before AS! assist therein as Ninox used to...

Not really, AS!2 uses the same centering method as Castrator does, and applying it once or ten times shouldn't make a difference. A COG measurement of the blue channel is often shifted towards the polar cap a bit (because compared to the rest of the planet, the polar cap is much more bright in blue than in red light). I think this, and other such differences in brightness regions, might cause a slight mis-alignment between the channels.

Freddy, those are seems alright. If you open that recording in AS!2, which Image Stabilization settings do you use (dynamic background?), and if you browse through the recording (using the slider at the top of the image window), does the planet stay perfectly centered throughout all frames?

How big are the APs that you use, and how are they placed?

Could you provide a screenshot of both of the AS!2 windows?


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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: MvZ]
      #5067299 - 02/11/12 02:09 PM

I will emil,
Just for now, those where ninoxed frames, BMP's.
I did not have a good Avi' so I did not load the Avi, but the ninoxed frames like around 7000 into AS2.
I will get that screenshot.


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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5067464 - 02/11/12 04:21 PM Attachment (82 downloads)

Hi Emil.
This is a recent processed Jupiter Avi,
No ninox, just straight the Avi into AS.


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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5067465 - 02/11/12 04:22 PM Attachment (63 downloads)

Wavelets into Registax 6
Let me know what I'm doing wrong..
I love the program it looks better then R6.. but only have those damn seems,
Also Processing my Mars images from this morning and have the same seems. Use different computers..


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PiotrM
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Reged: 01/03/10

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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5067497 - 02/11/12 04:50 PM

Try maybe single point. Multipoint sometimes goes crazy (like in R6).

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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5067516 - 02/11/12 05:04 PM

Thanks Rik, will try, have the whole weekend..
Just want to add that I do not have any problems with my moon images processed in Surface mode.


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MvZ
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5067600 - 02/11/12 06:01 PM

No, there is no need to switch to single AP just yet, we are not running away from the problem (although you are right that fever things can go wrong a single AP placed around the entire planet, you can't get a more stable AP than this, and the image quality is always at least decent)

You should do all these things Freddy, and the image should improve.
- Use the width and height sliders to crop the data to make sure you don't run into memory problems. AS!2 loves to buffer, but I see your pc does not have a lot of RAM available (450mb free is not a lot these days) so buffering to increase processing speed is out of the question. Set a width of around 320 and a height of 300.
- an AP size of 50 is WAY too low for this data, AS!2 simply won't be able to align the data in those tiny windows. Try again with an AP size of 120, and place overlapping APs ALL OVER THE PLANET (there shouldn't be any gaps there like you have in the center of the planet. Where there is overlap, there is backup for a potential troublesome AP - AS!2 will sort that out automaticaly)
- increase the gradient estimator to 4
- Don't use drizzle. Only experiment with drizzle when you know the data is undersampled and of high quality, otherwise just stay away from this setting for now.

Please report back with the results.

Edit: just to repeat one question to make sure the image stabilization works: "if you browse through the recording (using the slider at the top of the image window, just drag it along with the mouse), does the planet stay perfectly centered throughout all frames?"

Edited by MvZ (02/11/12 06:16 PM)


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Yuri_18
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Reged: 07/29/07

Loc: Minsk, Belarus
Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: MvZ]
      #5067724 - 02/11/12 07:43 PM

Hi all,

I have done some tests with our materials and I can tell that as it seems to me AS2 works very well. Emil, thanks for the fine software.


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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Yuri_18]
      #5067934 - 02/11/12 10:09 PM

Hi Emil,
Just tried two Avi's Red and Green, and they are ok with NO drizzle !
Jupiter stays centered all the way, perfect..
And what ever alignment box I use works great, but them with no Drizzle.. So that problem is solved.
Now what I miss here Emil is the re-sample like 1.5 or 2 X like in Registax, that's why I used 1.5 drizzle to make the end result slightly bigger in scale then the original capture.
Is there a way the implement that in the software.
It's really fast Emil and everybody likes it and will use it eventually !! And much sharper..


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MvZ
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5068359 - 02/12/12 07:14 AM

Are you sure it is caused by drizzle problems Freddy?? I know for a fact that an AP size of 50 on that kind of data is too low to work optimally, so the results should definately improved when you use bigger and better placed APs (like I described in my previous post).

You can easily test this by placing those 120 size APs on Jupiter, and then stack without the drizzling option, immediately followed by a stack where you turned the drizzling option ON. If you could show both stacks, that would be grrrreat.

Btw, I'm not adding a resampling method. That would be something for AS!3.

Edited by MvZ (02/12/12 07:19 AM)


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Mert
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Reged: 08/31/05

Loc: Spain, Pamplona
Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: MvZ]
      #5068389 - 02/12/12 07:56 AM

Hoi Emil,

First to start off with, I'm much impressed with the
results AS!2 offers without knowing anything.
Thank you very much for such a wonderfull tool you've
developed!!
After some reading and trying, I see that the stacking
is very nice.
One question I have is about the resulting image
I see there are 2 images being saved, one is the stack
without processing??? and the second with some sort of
wavelet scheme applied??

I compared 2 images I did, the first was processed with a
lot of steps, the second with AS!2 Specklm and CS2.
The funny thing I observe is that the AS!2 processed
version seems to have a very pixelized apearance.

Which is the "unprocessed" version saved? (is it
unprocessed only stacked??)


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PiotrM
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Reged: 01/03/10

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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: Mert]
      #5068486 - 02/12/12 09:26 AM

Here is my Mars comparison. The apps had a tricky thing to do as C11 had a temperature lag and from time to time the image to blurred slightly from tube currents. It seems that Both AS versions made good stacks:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2el5jsx.jpg

Bigger % stack gives less sharp image (AS deconv files)... so at 50% it stacks 50% of frames starting from the best ones?


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sfugardi
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5068528 - 02/12/12 09:54 AM

Emil, thank you very much for the enormous amount of work you put into the latest AS! program. I have just started using it within the last 24hrs. The user panel is very nice. One interesting thing I noticed about the selection of AP sizes. If you pick a size that is too small, the program does not work, so I've tweak the size as low as possible until its starts. For my latest Mars I have it set to 65. Your program will take image processing to the next level for sure. Thanks again!

Regards,
Steve


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MvZ
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: sfugardi]
      #5068675 - 02/12/12 11:30 AM

Hi Mert,

The (slightly) sharpened one has the "conv_" in the name, so the other one is the raw stack. The sharpened version is only for previewing (I often use it to scan through the results to find a good set of RGB data ), you shouldn't use it for processing. If you don't need the sharpened version, just turn off the 'sharpened images" option, and it will only save a raw stack.

Loverly images Piotr, looks like excellent seeing! The image sharpening routine built into AS!2 is very simple and does not take into account how many frames were stacked. More frames stacked pretty much always means that you also have to sharpen the image more to get a similar sharpness. This does not mean you shouldn't stack more frames though, it only means that you should adapt your processing to the amount of frames that you stacked. So again, the image sharpening in AS!2 it is only meant to provide a quick sharpened preview of the stack (I often just use the windows photo viewer to browse through all the "conv_" results to get an idea of what the data is like).

Steve. It's best to start off with APs that are a bit too large (like the size of Mars), and work your way down from there. Carefuly compare the results to see what works best for your images, after a while you'll get an idea of which settings you should use. The raw AP size number on it's own means nothing, it greatly depends on the image scale you image it, the noise level of the images, the seeing, etc. Simply put: keep experimenting with your data. You'll soon find that for Mars images recorded at F/34 an AP size of xx works well most of the time, but in case of the blue channel it might be best to use sligtly larger AP-sizes.

I often run all the red recordings in one go through AS!2, usually I can get away with the same settings for the green recordings, but for blue I often switch to slightly larger APs.


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PiotrM
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: MvZ]
      #5068705 - 02/12/12 11:49 AM

But just to be sure - if I set 50% for the stack to make - it will stack 50% of the frames starting from the best ones?

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MvZ
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5068779 - 02/12/12 12:32 PM

Yes, of course.

When operating in MAP mode and when you use the gradient quality estimator, each frame uses the best 50% of the frames for that location (so the quality is then judged local to the AP, not on a global per frame level). When using the edge detector in MAP mode, each AP will use the exact same frames (because the edge quality detector will only provide a single estimation for the entire image).

A little trick:
A good way to find out how well a quality estimator works, is to stack only the top 5%, and play around with different quality estimator settings and carefuly analyze the stacked results. When stacking 50% of the frames it might be more difficult to tell the difference, but when only using the very best 5% of the frames any potential difference in image quality will be much easier to spot.


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Mert
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Re: AutoStakkert! 2 new [Re: MvZ]
      #5068842 - 02/12/12 01:09 PM

Thanks a lot Emil for your feedback, very useful!
This program for sure makes life much easier


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