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MvZ
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5417362 - 09/12/12 01:58 PM

Again, there is nothing about the video itself that makes me think the video is fake.

The picture of your setup and the price of your telescope also does not prove the video is fake.

"Clearly an explosion wouldn't be in the shape of Mickey Mouse like that. (Zoom it.)"
Colimation is perhaps not perfect, but it can just as well be a seeing effect. It looks like a typical bright star point spread function. So no, it's NOT clearly a weird shape.

Here is a video showing the 2010 impact: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6LHljBKW8

Edited by MvZ (09/12/12 02:48 PM)


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bunyon
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: MvZ]
      #5417532 - 09/12/12 03:39 PM

Unless someone can provide some evidence, calling the video a hoax is pretty strong tea.

As for it not meshing with your observation, Don, it's pretty close. By the video, which I am assuming is legitimate, both for argument and in reality, your dot is not far off of where the impact occured. Given that it was a bright point, with airy disk and all, for right at one second, I wouldn't suspect you could pinpoint it with precision. You would have to be focusing your attention on exactly that point and anticipating it to be as accurate as you're claiming.

Thus, we have your visual observation confirmed by the video. They're in pretty good agreement, given such a short burst observed visually.

If the video is not right then we have...your word that something happened. No marks, no other evidence, etc. I'm not saying nothing happened, but it becomes not at all clear what, if anything, you actually saw.


Again, perhaps the video is a hoax. But I would hope that before people jump on that bandwagon, someone comes up with something beyond "doesn't look like I think it should". Until that happens, I'm going to take the video as a real and that it is a confirmation of a fine visual observation by you.


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WayneJ
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: bunyon]
      #5417557 - 09/12/12 03:51 PM

Well said, Paul. Another thing to consider is that if there is indeed a discrepancy between where Dan observed the object (from Wisconsin) and George imaged the object (from Texas) that there is a difference in the location relative to Jupiter due to parallax. This, however, would suggest that the phenomena was not actually AT Jupiter, but much closer to us, such as an iridium flare.

I'm not weighing in on that possibility, because I really don't feel like doing the math to determine; but I did want to point out a plausible explanation if, indeed, the imaged fireball is in a different location from where Dan observed it.

Regards,

Wayne


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Mirzam
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: WayneJ]
      #5417570 - 09/12/12 03:57 PM

Another possibility is that there were two impactors, slightly separated in time. Is there a time stamp on the video?

JimC


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siriusc
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5417592 - 09/12/12 04:11 PM

Hi Jim:

You may have hit the nail on the head, there could very well have been two impactors?

Wayne:

I too considered your theory of an object that was closer to earth, this would indeed produce an image shift. What I saw was in or just above Jupiter's clouds, I have no doubt about this.

Take it easy guys, Dan

Edited by siriusc (09/13/12 11:03 AM)


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PiotrM
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: siriusc]
      #5417608 - 09/12/12 04:19 PM

Some Keck/alike NIR/SWIR images could solve the problem. If it's detectable then probably only in those long wavelengths on hight resolution.

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Lsummers
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: siriusc]
      #5417665 - 09/12/12 04:52 PM

Quote:

Hi Jim:

You may have hit the nail on the head, there could very well have been two impactors?

Wayne:

I too considered your theory of an object closer to earth, that would produce an image shift. What I saw was definitely in Jupiter's clouds, I have no doubt about this.

Take it easy guys, Dan




The likelihood of two fireballs is nearly zero. With a single observation, there is absolutely no way that you can state that the fireball was on Jupiter or just in the line of sight. You made an important ans excellent observation. Don't oversell is by making definitive assertions that are scientifically unsupportable.

Larry


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Sunspot
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5417715 - 09/12/12 05:15 PM

Glenn Orton imaged the area in IR with a big boy in Hawaii and found no scaring. This reminds me so much of the one that Bird and Chris Go captured in 2010, even the impacts on the videos looked very similar. Heidi Hammel is prepared to point HST at Jupiter if there is reason to do so. I don't think there is any point in it though.

Paul


Quote:

Some Keck/alike NIR/SWIR images could solve the problem. If it's detectable then probably only in those long wavelengths on hight resolution.




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PiotrM
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Sunspot]
      #5417718 - 09/12/12 05:21 PM

I was referring to short and near infrared - wavelengths not available to CCDs and CMOS cameras - much longer than 1 micrometer.

Something similar to this:
http://phys.org/news/2010-11-jupiter-stripe.html
http://keckobservatory.org/news/europa_helps_astronomers_penetrate_jupiters_lost_belt/


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Mirzam
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Lsummers]
      #5417719 - 09/12/12 05:22 PM

Don't forget that a large gravity field commonly disrupts objects as they approach. Shoemaker-Levy-9 is a case in point, and look at how many crater chains occur on the Moon and other solar system bodies. Having two or more objects derived from a single parent body impact in a short period of time is by no means improbable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Shoemaker%E2%80%93Levy_9

If one accepts the hypothesis that both observations are accurate and reflect two different bodies, the displacement in position may allow a rough orbit determination.

JimC


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bunyon
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Lsummers]
      #5417733 - 09/12/12 05:28 PM

Playing with math and assuming Jupiter is in the far distance, I come up with an impact distance of approximately 100 million km.

Racine to Dallas = 1600km
parallax angle = approximately 3 arc seconds

I'm probably off (and at that distance, Jupiter can't really be assumed to be a stationary distant object) but that puts the distance to impact in, more or less, empty space. I'd put the odds of such an impact occuring directly between us and Jupiter at far below the odds of two impacts. Shoemaker-Levy 9, after all, gave a series of impacts. I'm not saying it's likely, but having a loose pile of rubble impact Jupiter isn't far fetched.

Still, I think the best, simplest, explanation is that the video shows the impact Don observed and an eye-witness account of a fleeting and unexpected event was off by a couple of arc seconds.

EDIT: Jim, was writing my post when yours went up. Yes, SL9 was exactly what I thought of, too.

Edited by bunyon (09/12/12 05:30 PM)


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siriusc
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Lsummers]
      #5417744 - 09/12/12 05:39 PM

Hi all:

If this object were closer to our Earth than Jupiter, then George's location which is well south of mine would position the light to the north of my reported position and not south of it as the video clearly shows, speaking geometrically this eliminates the posibility that it was located between our Earth and Jupiter.

Cheers, Dan

Edited by siriusc (09/12/12 06:09 PM)


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Sunspot
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5417804 - 09/12/12 06:16 PM

When Glenn images Jupiter with the IRTF, it's at 4.8 microns. He didn't say specifically, and hasn't pubished any images of the impact location yet but having seen a number of his recent IRTF images I'm betting he imaged the impact zone at that wavelength.

Paul


Quote:

I was referring to short and near infrared - wavelengths not available to CCDs and CMOS cameras - much longer than 1 micrometer.

Something similar to this:
http://phys.org/news/2010-11-jupiter-stripe.html
http://keckobservatory.org/news/europa_helps_astronomers_penetrate_jupiters_lost_belt/




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PiotrM
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Sunspot]
      #5417820 - 09/12/12 06:23 PM

Quote:

When Glenn images Jupiter with the IRTF, it's at 4.8 microns. He didn't say specifically, and hasn't pubished any images of the impact location yet but having seen a number of his recent IRTF images I'm betting he imaged the impact zone at that wavelength.




Nice equipment Images from it would be very interesting.


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Scanning4Comets
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5418487 - 09/13/12 01:14 AM

Most excellent !! I hope to see some kind of marking...I observed Jupiter yesterday morning and didn't see anything....hopefully I will next time! This is exciting!

Cheers,


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zAmbonii
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Loc: Ypsilanti, MI
Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5418493 - 09/13/12 01:20 AM

One of these days we will have someone spot an impact right when Jupiter is rising, say on the east coast of the US. Word will quickly get out and we'll have a fleet of amateur imagers on the ready to image and we'll get a nice timeline from impact till an impact scar is formed.

Can't wait till that happens and I hope that I'll be a part of it


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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: zAmbonii]
      #5418553 - 09/13/12 04:01 AM

Nothing was detected on the IRTF images this morning September 12.

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crosseyedcricket
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Reged: 12/23/08

Loc: Dallas, TX
Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5418874 - 09/13/12 10:21 AM

Folks, I have known George Hall personally for years. He is a longtime member of the Texas Astronomical Society as well as our astrophotography group. He is a diligent planetary and lunar imager and a humble and unassuming person.

There is no hoax or fabrication in his capture.

I'm extremely pleased that he has been rewarded with such a unique event after so many nights and mornings spent at the scope. I'm sure he will be glad when all the attention dies down and he is left with the satisfaction of capturing this amazing event.


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3RFJeff
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Reged: 07/29/11

Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: crosseyedcricket]
      #5418924 - 09/13/12 10:51 AM

I second David's defense of George here. I, too, have known him for many years. He is an excellent and diligent planetary imager. He also does photometry to produce exoplanet-transit light curves. He does this for the love of it, not for the fleeting fame that a hoaxter might enjoy.

He has shared what he imaged. Leave it at that and everyone is satisfied.


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Sunspot
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Re: I observed an explosion on Jupiter this morning! new [Re: 3RFJeff]
      #5418967 - 09/13/12 11:14 AM

Amen with a capital A.

Quote:

I second David's defense of George here. I, too, have known him for many years. He is an excellent and diligent planetary imager. He also does photometry to produce exoplanet-transit light curves. He does this for the love of it, not for the fleeting fame that a hoaxter might enjoy.

He has shared what he imaged. Leave it at that and everyone is satisfied.




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