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Kokatha man
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Reged: 09/13/09

Loc: "cooker-ta man" downunda...
Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: DesertRat]
      #5558557 - 12/07/12 12:35 AM

Quote:

Don't feel bad Darryl! I've often felt that the T and C and so on designations open to confusion. Much better to state actual dia and thread in my view. I find vernier calipers handy when I'm going thru a box of unmarked adapters!
Glenn




Heh-hee Glenn - as I sad in one of Ed's threads, I'll claim part-redemption by presuming his gamma was low re the camera "artefacts" (I haven't really had any problems whatsoever with this camera so far, and I think I'm starting to rack up a few miles on it now. )

The most idiotic thing about that thread-type business is that when I checked the adaptor I'd originally used as my reference it actually has "T2" written on it in (small) white lettering....!


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Hillbrad
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/03/08

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Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5560328 - 12/08/12 01:59 AM

Hey Darryl I just finally saw this thread...and great job with the captures! Did you hop on a plane and fly up to the states? haha But yeah I'm glad you got some "keeper" images with Jupiter being so low. That camera looks like a solid performer...and for that price I think we all should get one.

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Kokatha man
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Reged: 09/13/09

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Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: Hillbrad]
      #5560683 - 12/08/12 11:02 AM

Quote:

Hey Darryl I just finally saw this thread...and great job with the captures! Did you hop on a plane and fly up to the states? haha But yeah I'm glad you got some "keeper" images with Jupiter being so low. That camera looks like a solid performer...and for that price I think we all should get one.




.....must be why my eyes are about to pack up Brad - jetlag from all that flying..!

Thanks, all the travelling and heat has some balm when you pull some good images.....but we've had a good night tonight and tomorrow night we'll just sleep (for ages!!! ) and head home the next morning...


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GreatGigInTheSky
sage


Reged: 02/06/11

Loc: Santa Clara, California
Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5561238 - 12/08/12 05:24 PM

Great thread Darryl -- thanks for all the information on the new cam. I'm just catching up here. I'm wondering about this model you have vs. the ASI130MM, and whether there is a reason to choose your ASI120MM over it. Seems the larger 5.2micron pixels of the 130 may make things a bit more similar in setup for us folks who have been using TIS or PGR cams with 5.6micron pixels. I'm very interested at these prices, and see myself going mono soon!

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Kokatha man
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Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: GreatGigInTheSky]
      #5561377 - 12/08/12 07:23 PM

"Apples & oranges" Jeff - 2 different cameras with different sensors etc.....the ASI120MM is a high QE unit that excells at planetary imaging, but also has the resolution available to make it a very viable Lunar imager - it's sensitivity and low noise has also seen it being used on DSO's - Emil did a stack from a few hundred r. g & b takes of the core of M42 each (I think) about 1 second exposures.....the detail both in resolving stars and also the gas clouds deep within that area had to be seen to be believed: this all sounds a bit like "best thing since sliced bread" spiel but at just under $300 and being so fexible and only usb2, my Flea3 is unlikely to see much action - if any at all - from now on..!

It also has me looking at one of the latest CS Samyang wide angle lenses for some "sky play."

I can see cmos sensor cameras rising to the fore over the next few years and hopefully Sam will continue his practise of keeping abreast with the latest chips available and implementing them into his range, so that another model in a few years might take things even further..!


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Kokatha man
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Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5561386 - 12/08/12 07:28 PM

ps: the smaller-sized pixels are more a problem in long f/l scopes like the C14 - but I have solved that for myself and have a couple of thoughts on making it even more flexible for said scopes...will post on that down the track!

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GreatGigInTheSky
sage


Reged: 02/06/11

Loc: Santa Clara, California
Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5561691 - 12/08/12 11:31 PM

Well I can read the specs, Darryl -- I can see they're different sensors. And I can see from the detailed info you've posted that the ASI120MM is a very capable cam. But if Sam's marketing material on his site is to be believed, then the ASI130MM is intended for planetary, solar and lunar imaging also, and has a fast frame rate (even faster than the 120), high QE (55% peak), as well as the same resolution as the 120.

I can look at the images posted on the site. The ones taken with the ASI130MM aren't quite competing with the ones posted there from you and Emil taken with the 120, but I can't tell if this is due to a difference in the suitability of the cameras, or a difference in the skills of the imagers. Knowing the work of a couple of the gents involved, however, I can make some semi-educated guesses. There are Saturns from ZZ on both pages, but not knowing anything about the conditions they were taken under, the processing, etc., other than being able to say that they're of roughly the same quality, I can't judge much.

What I was hoping for is to get some kind of idea of why you are working with the 120 instead of the 130. Maybe the 130 was only available later so it wasn't an option at the time in any case? Or perhaps you had a choice, and could inform us of what went into the decision. Ideally some objective comparison would be great, but if that's not possible, then I would appreciate reading your views on what the differences between the two might be if you care to share them, as I value your opinion. Or maybe Sam could provide some information.

I'm just thinking that with the investment I have in barlows, etc. that the larger pixels of the 130 would be a better fit for my existing setup. Also, all other parameters being equal (which they may not be) larger pixels are going to mean less noise.


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zAmbonii
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/19/08

Loc: Ypsilanti, MI
Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: GreatGigInTheSky]
      #5561780 - 12/09/12 01:19 AM

I was kinda interested in the comparison between the 120MM and the 130MM also (just for curiosity's sake and learning more).

The ASI130MM apparently has the same sensor that is in the QHY5 guide cam, and it isn't noted as a good planetary camera. Doing a search for the ASI130MM and two things that jumped out in some of the pages were "noise" and "pattern noise".

From here (under the help tab)...

Quote:

The ASI 130MM camera although great in many respects does suffer from noise that becomes more intrusive the more we increase gain and reduce exposure time. Sadly these settings are precisely what is required for capturing planetary images.....




and they show a method of trying to help get rid of the pattern noise...I believe through dark subtraction.

I quit searching after I found these images in which I thought the SPC900NC images looked better.

Almost looks like they tried to take a proven guide camera chip and adapt it for planetary use, and the electronics just wasn't up to the job. On the other hand, we have seen some examples of the 120MM and it looks good on the planetary front.


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GreatGigInTheSky
sage


Reged: 02/06/11

Loc: Santa Clara, California
Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: zAmbonii]
      #5561822 - 12/09/12 02:13 AM

Good find, z -- thanks. I'm convinced. But contrary to the description above, the long exposure images are far worse on pattern noise than the planetary shots. So hello ASI120MM! And as far as the Philips webcam images looking better, well, yeah, YOUR Philips webcam images... I can't say mine ever looked better than that!

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wenjha
Vendor


Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: SuZhou China
Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: GreatGigInTheSky]
      #5561887 - 12/09/12 05:11 AM

Hello Jeff
z is correct. the most difference between ASI130MM and ASI120MM is that ASI130MM has more noise and lower QE.
the color version of 120 ASI120MC has the same brightness of ASI130MM.So you must know how sensetive 120 is now


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Kokatha man
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Reged: 09/13/09

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Re: Another (better!) Jupiter from ASI120MM camera! new [Re: wenjha]
      #5561989 - 12/09/12 08:27 AM

.....yes, sorry if my answer didn't really address your questions Jeff (apart from me stating they are 2 quite different cameras! )

And the question didn't really arise as to which I would have chosen and why: I was just very fortunate in that Sam sent me this camera (and the colour version, the ASI120MC! ) to test and assist him getting it the most "user-friendly" and we were most fortunate in that Torsten worked wonders with FireCapture builds to do said (and also Sam, who conversely kept making constant driver revisions).....and you can also see from the specs and Sam's response the QE etc of the ASI120MM is quite superior.....

As I've said, it has supplanted the Flea3 almost completely for me - it is so easy and flexible in its' use.


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