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Kokatha man
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Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th+MOREanimations !
      #5783287 - 04/07/13 08:27 AM Attachment (171 downloads)

Just edited this thread title AGAIN to let folks know that AS WELL AS adding a couple of red channel animations from Langhorne Creek plus an rgb from our first night at our original location at the old sportsground out in the Murray Mallee.....I've NOW ALSO ADDED a 2 frame RGB ANIMATION of a couple of the Langhorne Creek rgb's and will finish off with a WinJupos compilation after we get back from the Mallee tomorrow..!

ok - one of our usual "sagas" here for our last soujourn into the countryside.....went up to the old sportsground in the Murray Mallee to image in the morning on 5th April and captured 3 nice rgb sets before the seeing dipped and we called it a night/morning: these were shot at 6000mm f/l using the variable amplifier I posted piks of here: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/Imaging/Numbe...

The following day SkippySky predicted some issues with cloud & transparency for the next session but it looked as though we'd still get an opportunity so we spent a leisurely day in the caravan, but later forecast updates started to paint a grim picture for the entire night ahead...

In short a wide band of cloud was coming through which was already overhead and was not expected to disperse during the night.....but we thought we'd be no better off elsewhere so decided we'd give the imaging a miss and catch up on badly-needed sleep..!

We could see that this band left the Southern horizon clear and this is what the satellite images and Skippy kept on indicating would be the way it panned out - that strip of clear sky on the Southern horizon just kept on enticing us.....so around an hour before sunset we quickly packed the scope and van and drove South looking for these promised clear skies at about 1 degree South.....

Got to a small place called Langhorne Creek around 10pm (not far from where we used to live actually) which is smack in the middle of a major grape-growing area and found a nice spot to pull up behind another sporting complex.....this one was still very much used and with its' lush green fields etc a far cry from the dry & dusty abandoned field we'd left about 2.5 hours earlier....!

To move this saga along we quickly set the scope up in the dark (a PITA tbh) and did a rough PA'ing, then lay down for an hour or so before imaging after the frantic change of locations and night-time efforts.....

Now after successfully trialling my variable amplifier recently and a discussion I had here with Ray (Shiraz) I was eager to take this a bit further.....so after shooting a couple of 6000mm rgb sets I slid the camera assembly back considerably and re-focused - well, tried to that is!!!

Extending the camera back from the barlow element requires shifting the focal point inwards, but I ran out of room with the focuser completely in..!

No problemos you might say, just twiddle the primary mirror knob to bring the focus within the Moonlite's range.....but I have fixed the primary mirror with anchors on the other 2 "arms" that hold the primary rigid (the 3rd is the actual primary focus screw...)


What this modification has done is completely removed even the smallest mirror shift from the C14's heavy primary at any scope angle and is, imo, one of the reasons that our imaging has improved substantially these last couple of months as the collimation remains rock-solid at all times and even with travelling etc we rarely need to make much more than minor adjustments to collimation before imaging.....

BUT YA CAN'T MOVE THE PRIMARY WITH THE MIRROR LOCKED!!!

This meant I had to release these locks, adjust the primary for the focuser's range and then reset & collimate etc before imaging.....not an easy task at 2am in the dark!!!

To make matters worse the instant we released the primary locks the finderscope and C14 became completely misaligned with each other and it took me a good 15-20 minutes to get Saturn back onscreen and the finder adjusted.....but in a bit less than an hour all this was accomplished including collimation (right out through the locks being released and re-applied...)

Firecap's logs indicated we were now imaging at 6600mm (they are a tad off I reckon so this is a rough f/l) and we collected several good rgb sets at this length.....

Finally, emboldened by this and wishing to test things a bit more we upped the f/l to around 7400mm and finished the morning off with 3 sets at this scale - unfortunately seeing had begun to dip a bit by then and they were not as successfull.....but judging by the best frames etc I believe that f/l could be sustained in times of good seeing!

On another note shifting to this greater image scale again and checking collimation demonstrated that last week's indication that the self-centring really worked was correct, that collimation remained stable when adjusting this unit! (I'd been smart enough to set the primary position with respect to the focuser's range to cover all possibilities now!!! )

Pat's designated the image scales as "Regular" (5400mm) "Large" (6000mm) "Jumbo" (6600MM) & "Super Jumbo" (7400mm) - no fries with any of them though!

I have a lot of data to finsh processing including WinJupos compilations and animations etc.....here is one of the 6600mm rgb's (classic, not W/Jupos) at 185% of capture scale for silliness and then again at 150% cap scale.....I haven't processed the rings separately yet and really need to processing these again a bit better overall - but I think they are good enough as first-processings. :)

Edited by Kokatha man (04/09/13 02:01 AM)


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5783292 - 04/07/13 08:29 AM Attachment (86 downloads)

.....a little more sensible scaling at 150% of capture scale:

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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5783302 - 04/07/13 08:32 AM Attachment (56 downloads)

Plenty more images tomorrow when I can devote the time, but here's a little composition I made to demonstrate the scales we've been employing with the variable amplifier these 2 nights...

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Baron
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5783349 - 04/07/13 09:07 AM

This saturn is awesome!

Edited by Baron (04/07/13 09:08 AM)


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darbyvet
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Baron]
      #5783456 - 04/07/13 10:09 AM

wow-mouth hanging open........

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lcd1080
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: darbyvet]
      #5783529 - 04/07/13 10:49 AM

I love to see a so called "amateur" astronomer work every bit as hard as a full time "professional". And indeed you do Darryl, I stand in awe of what you and Pat have accomplished.

I think we all could benefit from using a variable amplifier such as yours. I'm not sure of whether you indicated that you left the primary mirror permanently unlocked. It would be nice to regularly have access to all the images scales that Pat designated (with or without fries)

Pete

Edited by lcd1080 (04/07/13 10:53 AM)


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: lcd1080]
      #5783576 - 04/07/13 11:18 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

Thanks Paolo, Carl & Pete - your comments are appreciated..!

Pete, if you've ever tried to thread a setscrew through 2 inline thread-holes in any device you'll appreciate that it requires very carefully application regardless of how accurately the holes are aligned.....to do that with the scope on the mount is well-nigh impossible with everything at an angle and the mirror's weight creating even very minor misalignment, so I just brought the lockscrews up snug against the primary support arms: because the OTA was pointing fairly steeply upward this was sufficient to stop any mirror shift at the time.

I'll lock them in situ when I think of it, now that it's back on the floor at home where I store it standing on its' head (corrector plate end...)

This way it is relatively easy as long as you take care, the mirror's weight acting straight down centres/aligns all the relevant screws & screw-holes - as to the settings I now have the primary mirror position set such that the focuser can bring the image to focus regardless of whatever focal lengths we dial in..!

Here's the red channel from the rgb image above - more tomorrow!


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rik ter horst
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5783596 - 04/07/13 11:30 AM

Congrats on these images! Simply amazing, a joy to look at!

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ToxMan
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: rik ter horst]
      #5783625 - 04/07/13 11:46 AM

Superb. What a great collection of images this apparition!

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Space Cowboy
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: ToxMan]
      #5783660 - 04/07/13 12:03 PM

Great images Darryl they take the big scale very well. You are clearly the ultimate "Saturn chaser".

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REC
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Space Cowboy]
      #5783827 - 04/07/13 01:45 PM

Fantastic, looks like the Hubble!

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R Botero
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5783829 - 04/07/13 01:47 PM

Oh man,great shots Darryl! Thank you for sharing them with us 50+ latitude dwellers!

Roberto


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Az Frank
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: R Botero]
      #5784312 - 04/07/13 05:03 PM

Had a feeling some of the best is yet to come! Outstanding Darryl!

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ZielkeNightsky
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Az Frank]
      #5784426 - 04/07/13 05:59 PM

Stunning - I want to see more...

That red image looks perfect.... more....

more....


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corpusse
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: ZielkeNightsky]
      #5784720 - 04/07/13 08:28 PM

As per usual I am blown away. I do have one question. Are you traveling all around for other reasons or are you chasing the best possible seeing?

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bunyon
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: corpusse]
      #5784845 - 04/07/13 09:45 PM

Another awesome set. Very envious but more happy to see what can be done. Looking forward to seeing the rest.

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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: bunyon]
      #5784908 - 04/07/13 10:11 PM

Thanks very much also Rik, Paul, Stuart, Bob, Roberto, Frank, Lars, Andrew & Paul - Pat & I appreciate your kind comments!

Andrew, we live right next to the sea and whilst imaging can produce excellent results at home there are strong gully winds from the escarpment about 5 miles behind us that can often cruel otherwise very good conditions (not in the direction of the prevailing winds which are mostly off the water, but very strong at times of the year...)

We're "semi-retired" and are bush people at heart so we think nothing of taking our well equipped caravan off to these locations about a 2 hour or so drive from home, especially as the outdoors is so nice and also the seeing is more stable generally.....

A lot of people think a C14 is too big to travel with, but I'm 63 and with the setup we've perfected over time we can arrive at a destination and get the scope setup with PA, laptop & cabling etc all ready to go and be sitting down in the caravan with the kettle boiling for a hot drink in less than an hour.....even in the dark after a long drive from one location to another at 10pm such as we did for the second "leg" of this soujuorn..!

And of course some good outcomes are icing on the cake so to speak: I hope to post a few more images and an animation or 2 later today/tonight our time if possible.


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Freddy WILLEMS
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5784936 - 04/07/13 10:24 PM

Better than any NASA spacecraft flyby !

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zjc26138
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Freddy WILLEMS]
      #5784971 - 04/07/13 10:37 PM

Darryl,
Awesome pictures! Keep them coming.


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BKBrown
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5785049 - 04/07/13 11:29 PM

Absolutely brilliant amigo!
If it's this good now Darryl, I can't wait to see what you get around opposition I am starting to get a handle on the ASI120mm and it is successfully pulling in all channels at over 100 fps...but I'm sure my C11 Edge has my gain settings rather higher than yours
Keep up the great work my friend, it's inspirational...

Clear Skies,
Brian


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wenjha
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: BKBrown]
      #5785307 - 04/08/13 05:59 AM

Amazing Darryl!
I am curious which one will be the best saturn though variable aimplifer?


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: wenjha]
      #5785502 - 04/08/13 09:29 AM Attachment (33 downloads)

Thank you very much Freddy, Zach, Brian & Sam..!

Freddy - what are you doing lately.....I haven't seen any of your first-rate imaging outcomes for quite a long time now - have you moved from Hawaii..?

Brian, I have become an advocate of "don't get too concerned over the amount of gain you use" - when you have 10000 or even 15000 or more frames to cull and stack you're not usually too worried about noise: and on the issue of noise I believe in leaving a small amount in my images usually.

And it is all "luck" in the end re the seeing, even with the great elevation Saturn is at down here these days.....we had a good first night at the ole sportsground but it would've been inviting bad luck to stay there instead of moving for that second night....!

For you folks in the Northern Hemisphere the ability to operate at fast frame-rates is one of the excellent characteristics of this particular camera - despite your low elevations I think you'll find it delivers real benefits this apparition: I hope you grab some imaging outcomes that you can be proud of also amigo....!

I discovered earlier in this apparition when the seeing and elevation was lower that these uber-fast framerates were a real bonus (well, lower elevations relatively speaking when we imaged earlier in the night, with daylight saving time now over in Oz Saturn is presently culminating at 1:45am atm - a much more "genteel" hour of the night than (say) 4:30am as it was not so long ago....! )

Sam, I think the answer to your question is very much dependant upon the seeing: you can see by looking at those "best red frames" in this thread that the largest image scale's best was pretty good, but the seeing had definitely dropped by the time we employed that scale: I might post an image using that focal length/image scale (7400mm) later, but it wasn't up to those using 6600mm which were taken around culmination in the best seeing that night.

This makes me fairly confident in saying that on a night of excellent seeing we might score some crackerjack images around opposition (still 3 weeks away! ) using this scale or close to it.....personally I think we've had a couple of nights of "very good" seeing so far this apparition but not the "excellent" we still hope for..!

Here is a red channel animation but filesize limits meant I could only post a 2-framer at 120% of capture scale with 25 minutes separating the capture times......followed by a 4-frame animation (90% of capture scale and also non reversing, due to the filesize limitations.) :(


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5785508 - 04/08/13 09:32 AM Attachment (30 downloads)

.....the non-reversing 4 frame red animation at 90% of capture scale (the moons suffered re visibility by this filesize reduction...)

I'll post a link to another site when I've uploaded the fully-reversing 4-frame red animation at 120% of capture scale there.


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5785514 - 04/08/13 09:34 AM Attachment (26 downloads)

Lastly (for now! ) another rgb but this time from the first night when we were at our original location before we went to Langhorne Creek - quite nice seeing but not as good as at L.C.

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ToxMan
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5785528 - 04/08/13 09:44 AM

{{{speechless}}}

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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: ToxMan]
      #5785543 - 04/08/13 09:55 AM Attachment (23 downloads)

Quote:

{{{speechless}}}




.....I'll have to take that as a compliment Paul..?!?

I have some nice animations that'd need to be posted as a link to another site with larger filesize limits or maybe get off my backside and learn how to You-Tube them...

Also some WinJupos jobs etc.....looking again at Paul (Bunyon's) latest thread has made me do an invert of the first rgb in this thread: I've posted these before but seeing his got me inverting one of these fellas and I think they not only look cool but also inverting/creating colour negatives highlights aspects of the image from other perspectives.


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idp
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5785576 - 04/08/13 10:23 AM

Totally awed. I loved the great details at the edge of the temperate zone. Incredible images, congratulations! I'll have to switch from eyeball to digital sooner or later

Ivano


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Gupise
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: idp]
      #5785787 - 04/08/13 11:50 AM

My jaw hits the ground, really
Congrats


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sfugardi
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Reged: 09/30/06

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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Gupise]
      #5785859 - 04/08/13 12:26 PM

Mo, insane quality! The 200% image holds the detail nicely. Very impressive work. I'm still waiting for an above average seeing chance at Saturn. Thanks for posting

Regards,
Steve


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Mert
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: sfugardi]
      #5786451 - 04/08/13 05:17 PM

How come you continuously are improving Darryl??
You've now really set an unreachable limit for the
simple mortals like me!
By the way, contemplating these incredible images too
long wacked my laptop screen out of collimation LOL !!!!
Superstuff Darryl


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BKBrown
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5786462 - 04/08/13 05:23 PM

I'm with you on the gain, I often have it maxed out and just count on the numbers to help mitigate noise. I am curious as to how many frames you are collecting per channel, and at what frame rate. You probably mentioned this somewhere in the vast body of discussions in various threads lately but I would appreciate a quick recoup if you are willing Thanks!

Clear Skies,
Brian


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Yuri_18
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: BKBrown]
      #5786886 - 04/08/13 09:17 PM

Excellent!!!

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SYH
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th+animations etc! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5786955 - 04/08/13 09:47 PM

Incomparable Saturn

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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th+animations etc! new [Re: SYH]
      #5787264 - 04/09/13 02:01 AM Attachment (26 downloads)

Thanks very much for the kind comments Ivano, Gupise, Steve, Mert, Yuri and SYH.....Pat and I appreciate these responses to our imaging work very much!

Brian, I'm posting a few of the logs texts from these captures in the post after this one to give you an idea of what we use.....if you want to see some more just let me know..!

Also as per the edits I've signalled in the first post at the top of this thread, here is an animation of 2 rgb images from Langhorne Creek.....


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th+animations etc! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5787266 - 04/09/13 02:03 AM Attachment (27 downloads)

.....and here's those log texts Brian.

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mann
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: BKBrown]
      #5787331 - 04/09/13 03:44 AM

2XAmazing!!

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mitovka
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: mann]
      #5787506 - 04/09/13 07:31 AM

Incredible results Darryl. I wish you this kind of seeing for next 2 months at least... Or better.

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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: mann]
      #5787518 - 04/09/13 07:43 AM

Thanks Mogens - we're out in the field again right now.....promising forecasts but you just never really know!

We left pretty late this afternoon as Pat was having lunch with a girlfriend in the city, but we were pleased to have everything set up in just over half an hour tonight.....and in the dark too!

Re-applied the primary mirror locks properly before we left home tonight so we may have to search a bit to get the image on the chip and align the finderscope, and collimation will need a bit more work than usual: as I've said a couple of times I'm quite convinced that one factor working very much in our favour these days is said primary lock/mirror stabilisers.....I'm pretty convinced that C14's (or at least this one!) suffer from collimation errors due to the mirror moving ever-so-slightly when you move from the star-testing to the planet after collimation - and this doesn't happen anymore..!


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5787520 - 04/09/13 07:43 AM

Thanks also Michal!

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mikewirths
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5788075 - 04/09/13 01:11 PM

Thats an insanely fantastic image Darryl!!! I think you might need a bigger scope

cheers

Mike


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: mikewirths]
      #5788128 - 04/09/13 01:38 PM

Quote:

Thats an insanely fantastic image Darryl!!! I think you might need a bigger scope

cheers

Mike




Thanks Mike! The thought has crossed my mind but it won't be the 16" newtonian that I planned to set up in my backyard when I finally get an observatory.....tbh I just don't think Newts really cut it as planetary scopes; maybe the old f8 or so units perhaps - but who wants a 10 or 12 foot OTA..?

And while we're still upright & mobile we'd prefer to travel with whatever we use.....the C14 has plenty more up its sleeve imho especially with the planets down here over the next few years or so - we've principally just got to keep on breathing..!

A custom 18" DK cassegrain has crossed my mind a couple of times.....a lot of money though!!!

Tonight has been so-so, maybe one or two decent images, maybe not, but I was right in a post above about getting the planet on the sensor and the finder aligned, it was a devil of a job and re-applying the primary locks/stabilisers threw the collimation for a six.....only time I've seen it further out was when we took the old C11 to pieces and re-asssembled it!!!

Anyway, back to the nightly grind....!


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lcd1080
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5788183 - 04/09/13 01:54 PM

Quote:

..I'm pretty convinced that C14's (or at least this one!) suffer from collimation errors due to the mirror moving ever-so-slightly when you move from the star-testing to the planet after collimation - and this doesn't happen anymore..!


Darryl I'm convinced that achieving the best possible collimation precision is the "sine qua non" of expert SCT operations. My Latin teacher would smile if she read this

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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: lcd1080]
      #5789207 - 04/09/13 09:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

..I'm pretty convinced that C14's (or at least this one!) suffer from collimation errors due to the mirror moving ever-so-slightly when you move from the star-testing to the planet after collimation - and this doesn't happen anymore..!


Darryl I'm convinced that achieving the best possible collimation precision is the "sine qua non" of expert SCT operations. My Latin teacher would smile if she read this




Heck Pete - I remember rote-like verb etc conjugating in Latin for 3 years as a kid....."without which it could not be" is pretty spot-on: a poorly collimated scope is next to useless imo!

I suspect this peccadillo (miniscule mirror shift affecting fine collimation) is a feature of a lot of C14's.....that's just a hunch but there's much more mirror mass compared to our old C11: I believe the locks/stabilizers are having a significant impact on our imaging outcomes these days...

This morning's efforts will be lucky if they produce anything worth posting etc but we did work out another ploy to assist us with the variable amplifier we made - and we look at every imaging session as productive regardless of the actual image outcomes, as long as we learn something..!


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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: mikewirths]
      #5789524 - 04/10/13 02:32 AM

that's fantastic image Darryl!
the Hex pole is rotating


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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: wenjha]
      #5789539 - 04/10/13 02:42 AM

yess!!! Fantastic image good job Darryl

JP


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: wenjha]
      #5789856 - 04/10/13 09:38 AM

Quote:

that's fantastic image Darryl!
the Hex pole is rotating




.....I hope it is Sam!!!

Thank you, and thank you also Jean P - I had a great time looking at your website JP.....and although my French comprehension is very poor I understood quite a lot with the help of all the images!

I had made many similar alterations to my C11 a few years ago and the C14 will undergo some similar modifications after this Saturn apparition is finished.....I note that you have employed those knurled knob set-screws for the other 2 arms of the primary mirror assembly - they not only act as lock screws but also reinforce the stability of the main mirror so that collimation does not change.....something I also have done and I believe has helped me personally with my C14's imaging outcomes by achieving very stable collimation at any scope angle!


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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5789900 - 04/10/13 10:03 AM

Insane detail... again...

How fast is the hex structure actually rotating? It would be nice if you could see it rotate relative to features around it..?


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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: MvZ]
      #5791207 - 04/10/13 08:13 PM

Quote:

Insane detail... again...

How fast is the hex structure actually rotating? It would be nice if you could see it rotate relative to features around it..?




Hi Emil - I'm sure you've looked at some of this type of info but I'll post it here at the bottom of this post with some relevant parts of a couple of emails between myself and Mike Foulkes (BAA Saturn Director) relevant to your post.....

We've imaged a distinct bright spot right next to one of the Hex's vertices on 2 occassions this apparition (5th March & 25th March) and thought they might be the same feature.....here's part of my email and Mike's reply although I haven't followed up with any inferences there might need clarifying in his answer.....you'll see by the "potted" summary of the NPZ's hex further down that it might well be this bright feature shifting in longitude relative to the hex - but as said I haven't clarified that as yet with him.....

Me <“In the rgb16393 image (March 25th) I note a bright spot very high in the Northern latitudes right next to one of the NPZ’s hexagonal vertices…..I haven’t measured this feature yet but believe it is very likely the same spot I would’ve drawn your attention to in my March 5th images…..”>

Mike Foulkes <”…..with this in mind the white spots in the hexagon come out at System 3 = 149 and 101 on 5 March and 25 March respectively.”>

Here's a bit of material I pulled off the internet on Saturn etc - might be superceded for all I know but thought it worth posting for anyone's interest!

Astronomers using infrared imaging have shown that Saturn has a warm polar vortex, and is the only such planet known in the solar system.

A persisting hexagonal wave pattern around the north polar vortex in the atmosphere at about 78°N was first noted in the Voyager images.[3][4] Unlike the north pole, HST imaging of the south polar region indicates the presence of a jet stream, but no strong polar vortex nor any hexagonal standing wave.[5] However, NASA reported in November 2006 that the Cassini spacecraft observed a 'hurricane-like' storm locked to the south pole that had a clearly defined eyewall.[6] This observation is particularly notable because eyewall clouds have not been seen on any planet other than Earth (including a failure to observe an eyewall in the Great Red Spot of Jupiter by the Galileo spacecraft).[7]

The straight sides of the northern polar hexagon are each about 13,800 kilometers long. The entire structure rotates with a period of 10h 39m 24s, the same period as that of the planet's radio emissions, which is assumed to be equal to the period of rotation of Saturn's interior. The hexagonal feature does not shift in longitude like the other clouds in the visible atmosphere. (my embolding)

The pattern's origin is a matter of much speculation. Most astronomers seem to favor some sort of standing-wave pattern in the atmosphere; but the hexagon might be a novel sort of aurora. More extreme speculation has Saturn's radio emissions emanating from the hexagon (something we can see and which has the right rotation period) rather than from the planet's interior (something we cannot see).[8] Polygon shapes have been replicated in spinning buckets of fluid on laboratory scales.[9]

Rotational behavior:

Since Saturn does not rotate on its axis at a uniform rate, multiple rotation periods have been assigned to it (as in Jupiter's case): System I has a period of 10 h 14 min 00 s (844.3°/d) and encompasses the Equatorial Zone, which extends from the northern edge of the South Equatorial Belt to the southern edge of the North Equatorial Belt. All other Saturnian latitudes have been assigned a rotation period of 10 h 39 min 24 s (810.76°/d), which is System II. System III, based on radio emissions from the planet, has a period of 10 h 39 min 22.4 s (810.8°/d); because it is very close to System II, it has largely superseded it.

While approaching Saturn in 2004, the Cassini spacecraft found that the radio rotation period of Saturn had increased slightly, to approximately 10 h 45 m 45 s (± 36 s).[10] The cause of the change is unknown — however, it is thought that this is due to a movement of the radio source to a different latitude inside Saturn, with a different rotational period, rather than an actual change in Saturn's rotation.

In March of 2007 it was reported that the variance in measured rotation periods may actually be caused by geyser activity on Saturn's moon Enceladus. The water vapor emitted into Saturnian orbit by this activity becomes charged and "weighs down" Saturn's magnetic field, slowing its rotation slightly relative to the rotation of the planet itself. If true, this means that there is no currently known method of determining the actual rotation rate of Saturn's core.

reference: http://space.wikia.com/wiki/Saturn


We have so much data to sift and process atm and we collected more yesterday morning.....

Edited by Kokatha man (04/10/13 08:25 PM)


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Kokatha man
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5791265 - 04/10/13 08:37 PM

ps: for anyone reading this last post the nub of the matter is that IF the bright spot we imaged on 5th & 25th March is one and the same then it has drifted 48° in longitude over a 20 day period.....the NPZ hex itself remains stationary wrt longitudinal drift.

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MvZ
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th....! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5791800 - 04/11/13 05:35 AM

Thanks for the information Darryl!

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BKBrown
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Re: Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th+animations etc! new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5795652 - 04/12/13 11:46 PM

Quote:

.....and here's those log texts Brian.




Thanks Darryl, this is just what the doctor called for...a very interesting read

Clear Skies,
Brian


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