Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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So as many people have known, meade is going through some very hard times over the past year and change.
There have been some huge problems in the areas of customer support, quality assurance, and repair services.
There is an article from sky and telescope which further details the issues:
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/10819876.html
Not only are they cutting costs left and right, but they're no longer going to be manufacturing inside the US at their california location. Instead they are moving to either mexico/china for a cheaper production line. Also, as the article says, meade is going to temporarily discontinue several of their popular series, and permanently stopping production of a few other less popular models.
There have been widespread problems with the LX-90 ACF models which have been plagued by original defects in the goto mechanisms. To make matters even worse, there is a long documentation of a horrid repair cycle that seemed to go very badly for a number of customers.
The entire issue is well documented by weasner at his famous LX/ETX website...
http://www.weasner.com/lx90/index.html
To this date, these are the only issues that i am aware of. To say the least, these are still quite troubling to someone like myself who has never had anything but great experiences with meade.
I own a meade lx90 EMC, which is the model that came before the lx90 ACF, and directly before the LX90 UHTC.
To this day since 2002-2003 when i first received the telescope, I have never had a single issue that is not deemed a normal wear and tear result.
I have NEVER updated my autostar firmware, not even once, and it still runs near flawless to this very day.
Something tells me that between 2002-2007 something had to happen inside the company to commence such dramatic changes.
Everything in my telescope is still top notch, and i have never cleaned the telescope optics even once. The most i have ever done was a light air dusting done by a air puff similar to an ear syringe.
And yet, people get new lx90 ACF telescopes, which are defective brand new right out of the box.
I am going to play it safe and stay away from all meade products until this little bump in the road gets sorted out.
When I have a product that was made years ago outperform a brand new, "newer" design telescope of the same general construction, it makes me worry about the other products put out by the same company.
Reading telescope reviews over the past several years, almost all reviewers gave the winning vote to the meade telescope against competitors like celestron and orion. Almost always, the meade telescope performed just a little little bit better than all the others, and thats why people respected them.
I am really disappointed in meade. To this day, meade is the only telescope/optics manufacturer to make enough revenue to be a publicly traded company. How can the biggest, most successful, most well known/popular, amateur telescope maker take such a huge plunge in customer support, quality assurance, and repair services?
What do you guys think?
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
   
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 6264
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Well, a lot has been said on this. My feeling is that there was a lot of bad decision making by Meade management. Their products have been innovative and well designed. The problems seem to be in QC and customer support. Those areas would suffer if the bean counters decided to save a few dollars by skimping there. Penny wise, pound foolish. My SCT is vintage 2003, and like you, I've never had a problem, and I've never upgraded my software. But it seems like the problems started shortly after that time. It's just a crying shame. At this point, Meade sells Chinese (or Mexican) telescopes. So, it's too late to fret about the last of the big commercial American telescope makers - they're gone.
-------------------- - Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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Kolenka
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 1010
Loc: Seattle Area, WA, USA
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Meade is big, sure. Successful? Right now they aren't.
The shutting down of product lines and the move to Mexico for production has already happened. The LX90 vibration issues started when the Mexico plant started churning them out. Doesn't surprise me that there are manufacturing issues when moving to a new plant with new staff. The failure is not catching this issue before it reached the public (QC).
In general it seems most of Meade's troubles stem from QC issues and service. If they could fix their processes in these areas, they could probably fix most of their reputation problems. Will they do it before they drown in debt and no cash to continue operations? Who knows.
As for manufacturing in Mexico/China, as long as they have to play the price game with a Synta-owned Celestron, they can't remain an American manufacturer. They will be perceived as too expensive compared to Celestron's reasonable quality at reasonable cost. They could survive as a specialist telescope manufacturer in the US, but their volume would suffer horribly and they would lay off a bunch of staff to do it.
-------------------- Orion XX12 / Orion 80ED OTA / AT66ED
Nagler 7T6, 9T6, 13T6, 17T4, 26T5
Canon XS, TIS DMK 31AF03, AstroTrac TT320X
Northwest Astro Photoblog
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rmollise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 5295
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Quote:
Meade is big, sure. Successful? Right now they aren't.
The shutting down of product lines and the move to Mexico for production has already happened. The LX90 vibration issues started when the Mexico plant started churning them out. Doesn't surprise me that there are manufacturing issues when moving to a new plant with new staff. The failure is not catching this issue before it reached the public (QC).
In general it seems most of Meade's troubles stem from QC issues and service. If they could fix their processes in these areas, they could probably fix most of their reputation problems. Will they do it before they drown in debt and no cash to continue operations? Who knows.
As for manufacturing in Mexico/China, as long as they have to play the price game with a Synta-owned Celestron, they can't remain an American manufacturer. They will be perceived as too expensive compared to Celestron's reasonable quality at reasonable cost. They could survive as a specialist telescope manufacturer in the US, but their volume would suffer horribly and they would lay off a bunch of staff to do it.
My thoughts on this unhappy situation? This was happening long before Celestron's sellout to Synta. Celestron didn't survive as an independent entity because they were undercapitalized and couldn't make enough money selling scopes for the prices they (and Meade) had been selling them for for years. The price of an 8-inch SCT has dropped precipitously over the years, leaving little room for profit for the makers and even less for the dealers. There was simply no way either company could continue making telescopes in California given the current conditions. One integral part of the problem? Meade (and Celestron) are NOT big. Never have been. They are two small companies selling nearly identical products to a small audience.
As for quality control? Yes, they need to fix it. Unfortunately they have neither the people nor the money to fix it at this time...which becomes a self-reinforcing feedback cycle: problem scopes, fewer sold, less money, more problem scopes...
-------------------- Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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How do you figure that meade and celestron are not big companies?
Meade is a publicly traded company (meade has its own stock on the stock market and anyone can buy it)....which means they have to clear over a certain number of revenue per time period. In order to be on that level of corporate business, you need to be doing some large volume sales.
Celestron is not a publicly traded company as they have never been able to reach the revenue meade has.
I think the biggest problem is quality assurance and repairs.
Did you guys read the Weasner website i posted in the orignal topic? thats some SCARY SCARY stuff man.
Can u imagine 3 telescopes, all having the same problem? Check out the weasner documentation you will be horrified.
If I had to wait for 6months - 1 year to get my telescope lx90 acf working in good order, i would never work with that company again.
Luckily as i said before, my lx90 emc 8" was made in california well before the company decided to start cutting costs, and it really does show.
I dont know what it is but my telescope is just built very well, ive never heard a single rattle or loose part in all of the years ive had it. Its truly expert craftsmanship.
Oh did i mention in all these years i have NEVER EVER colliminated the telescope? Yea i know, shocking how a well built SCT would never require any adjustment. Doing star tests at 400x still show a perfect circle, same as 4 years ago when i first got it.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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If you need direct proof of how meade is really slipping, simply call their customer support/tech support line.
There are some guys working there on the phones that know what theyre doing, but the vast majority [don't appear to]
No matter how simple or basic the question is, the person has no clue what the answer is off the bat. You have to wait 2-4 minutes after each question . . .
ANYONE can type in a keyword into a flippin search engine and read the results, you dont need a tech support person doing this. A real tech support person would never make you wait after each question, they should already know it without delay.
I have a feeling there is some really bad allocation of funds going on here.
One tech support guy at meade told me the highest useful magnification on my lx90 emc 8" was 600x
What a joke!
[edited by moderator for disrespectful comments, which the TOS forbids]
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
Edited by Joad (08/07/08 08:56 PM)
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
   
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12948
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Quote:
How do you figure that meade and celestron are not big companies?
Meade is a publicly traded company (meade has its own stock on the stock market and anyone can buy it)....which means they have to clear over a certain number of revenue per time period. In order to be on that level of corporate business, you need to be doing some large volume sales.
Only a several years ago, Meades stock was selling for around $50.00 a share. Only reciently, the stock was about $0.50 a share. Don't sound like large volume any more...
Quote:
Celestron is not a publicly traded company as they have never been able to reach the revenue meade has.
Not entirely true... Becoming a publicly traded company is OPTIONAL. When the company is doing well, and DECIDES to go public, they do. This is a way for the company to get backing capitol, as the shareholders are "Loaning" their money to the company to do with what they need, to make more money (Hopefully), and thus, return the money to the shareholder, plus some... At least on paper thats how it's supposed to work. Any company can go public with stock... You don't need to make a set dollar amount before doing so...
And seeing as Celestron is part of Synta, I think they're doing pretty darned good.
-------------------- Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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WOW Neodinian!!
i never actually looked into the stocks, i just assume since it even HAS a stock, it must be high volume.
Dropping from $50 to 50 cents? wow thats a devastating drop to say the least.
Wait...the way it was explained to me is that if a company doesn't have a minimum amount of revenues, it WONT BE ALLOWED to enter the stock trading world. Is this not the case outside of nasdaq and other major stock systems?
Theres a difference between getting investors or going into the stock world.
Yes i do know that it is an optional thing if u want to get into stocks or not, but aren't there strict minimum requirements to do so?
My uncles' small business makes pieces of plastic/rubber that are used in underwear products.
He said he doesnt have enough revenue to make the company into a publicly traded stock.
He DOES have investors just like you said, but having investors and getting into the stock market are quite a little bit different.
I think youre right about celestron and how they could become a stock, but perhaps their investors dont want to see that happen.
Overall though, getting into the stock market will give you move money to do things with than otherwise. So why else wouldnt celestron or other companies want to go this route?
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Joad
Wordsmith
   
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 13590
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Let's recall that this is a telescope forum, not a financial forum, folks.
-------------------- 12.5 inch Portaball + Osypowski platform
LX10
Oberwerk BT100 45° binocular
Orion binoviewer + ScopeStuff extender (so it focuses at f/4.9)
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
   
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12948
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Even if it "IS" a minimum amount of revenue to start a stock, the point I was making is that Celestron is "NOT" being stopped by any minimum... It's Celestrons CHOICE weather it wants to become a public company or not... And becoming a "Stock" company means less in the owners pocket. They need to form a Board, and answer to the shareholders. Celestron has no requirements like that, and more profit to themselves (Or R&D, whatever)... 
Your uncle probably means (Just guessing here) that it's not "Worth it" to him to become a public company... If he don't make enough revenue in the first place, why make even less to go public? 
Investors and Stocks are basically the same thing... But the investors he currently has are called "Private investors"... All the same risks apply as in stock, but the "Owner" can deny future investors. Stocks can be bought by anyone, at any time, and no one can tell them they can't... 
Why one chooses NOT to go public is mainly because at that point, the PUBLIC "Owns" the company, and that could make or break any business. If the stock does bad, the value plummets, and your business could go down the drain. It's a risk. Again, another reason why your uncle is probably not wanting to do so...
-------------------- Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
   
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12948
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Quote:
Let's recall that this is a telescope forum, not a financial forum, folks.
Sorry...
-------------------- Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Well neo, at least you kicked my view of the stock market into perspective.
I was misinformed by other misinformed people. Don't you just hate misinformation?
I never knew that you make less by entering the stock market. I figured yea, you need a board/council of directors, need to appoint many new positions and sure this costs more money. But being a stock broadens your investor reach well beyond what you would potentially receive from conventional investors who do business in their own areas only (probably to keep their eye on the investment).
Therefore, I figured since stocks pull in money from millions of different investors, small amounts and large, this would give the budget of a given operation far more room to grow. Surely more raw $$$ can be obtained if you appeal to millions, instead of only those in your own area.
Then again, look at meade. From 50 dollars to 50 cents...how does a stock lose that much value?
And sorry about the skewing subject matter, this is a sensitive subject that has very much to do with the telescopes we love.
But i promise it will be the last business like thread that i will ever make.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Joseph Gillman
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 2972
Loc: Due south of the North Pole (A...
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Quote:
But i promise it will be the last business like thread that i will ever make.
I'm glad to hear that. Back to telescopes.
--------------------
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4131
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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OK-- back to the problem-- does anyone have DEFINITE information on exactly what the problem is with these new LX90 scopes-- one of our Astronomy club members has this exact same issue-- his new LX90 scope has been at Meade now for several months.... ??????
-------------------- LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Matthew Ota
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/30/05
Posts: 1237
Loc: Los Angeles, California
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Meade is not a big company. I visited them twice when they were manufacturing at their Irvine facility. It was small compared to other corporate manufacturers in SoCal.
-------------------- Matthew Ota
Meade LX250GPS 10 inch SCT (Frankenscope)
Orion ED 80
Coronado Helios 1 H-alpha
TheSky 6 Pro
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Quote:
Meade is not a big company. I visited them twice when they were manufacturing at their Irvine facility. It was small compared to other corporate manufacturers in SoCal.
Meade isn't a big company in terms of ALL businesses, but i think it is definitely the biggest telescope company.
The astronomy hobby market is still a niche market, although more affordable systems and equipment are allowing for the market to grow.
Telescopes are expensive pieces of hardware. People that are not educationally motivated, would rarely invest thousands of dollars into a hobby that requires hours and even days of long research, reading, and scouring the internet for information. Also, this hobby of ours is not something you can enjoy everyday, which even further decreases potential appeal. Bad weather, bad seeing conditions, light pollutions, or bad dark sites will eliminate the chance of having an observing session. No matter how powerful your telescope is, if your sky is only visible to magnitude 5 or 6, then your option of objects to view will be very limited.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Bob Griffiths
Getting Grouchy
   
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 7269
Loc: Frederick Maryland
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Well I own a Meade AR-5 on an LDX mount and I own a Celestron 8i... Both have been completely problem free.
But when I was shopping for a bigger SCT I did not even consider buying a Meade....
Why should I enter a lottery .. and pray I would get a good scope...???
This has got to hurt Meade and I have a feeling I'm not the only guy/gal who feels this way...
Just my thoughts...
Bob G.
-------------------- CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
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Gama
Vendor (Gama Electronics)
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 995
Loc: I come from the land downUnder
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Well, why not buy nothing then ?, this way your garaunteed not to have an issue.
I bought my 14"RCX during the "Motor runaway" fiasco, and even when scopes were arriving DOA, and im in Australia.
All i did to quash my fears was to be on site when the scope arrived at the dealer, open it and test it.
I did and i bought it. There was some minor cosmetic issues, but not enough to sway my purchase.
Some people climb the highest mountains to get that "Feeling" of thrill/excitment, they know the risks and still go for it.
I did, and i love this scope. But hey, go out and buy your next inferior SCT from another manufacturer that doesnt have the optical and mechanical abilities of the RCX (ACF).
If your affraid of electronics, get the LX200R versions.
It hurts Meade when all you guys do is complain how "It must hurt Meade", all i care is what they have to offer, and at what price. I dont treat them like they had the plague.
Treat it like a visit to the dentist, you know its a toss if any work needs to be done, but even if you need work done, you will come out better in the end.
In the end guys, its your money, and choice.
Theo.
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Steve Hopkins
sage
Reged: 03/20/07
Posts: 202
Loc: Manitoba Canada
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I agree with Gamma no one forces you to buy anything but I'm also of the opinion that we need Meade and we need to support Meade when there having a rough time. I will continue to purchase Meade Products matter of fact I'm thinking of buying a ETX125 next for a grab and go telescope for my Wife.
-------------------- WinterView Observatory 12'x16'ft Roll-Off
Meade 12" LX200R (His)- Celestron CPC 9.25(Her's)
Meade Series 5000 UWA & Plossl's(Two Complete Sets)
Two sets of Denk 21's and One set Denk 14's
Two sets of Denk II Binoveiwers (His & Hers)
Two Power & Switch Diagonals with Filter Switch
Canon Rebel 450D(XSI)
Meade Series 5000 80 mm ED APO
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JAT Observatory
Got Cookies?
   
Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 7145
Loc: Eastern PA
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I don't agree with the I'll buy it just to help Meade stay in business. I like this hobby but I am not going to spend money on problem plagued products. Meade needs to fix their QC, electronics and mechanical issues. This has been going on for years.
I like their glass they do a great job with optics. But I can't see myself buying another mount from them until they fix their problems once and for all.
Maybe they should think about building OTAs and lets say one or 2 mounts. Maybe a med and heavy duty GEM mount. Concentrate on getting those products right, then maybe they could save themselves.
-------------------- -Marcus
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe!
http://www.jatobservatory.org
Domed, 12" LX200R on a Paramount ME - currently mothballed.
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Gama
Vendor (Gama Electronics)
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 995
Loc: I come from the land downUnder
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Well, I do have to agree with that they need to fix the QC issue, and this is the biggest issue that is haunting Meade. As i said earlier, i had cosmetic issues with the scope. But, again, you need to always check whatever equipment you buy. I never liked "Drop Shipped", i prefer to look at it and test it on the dealers premises. It has worked out for me, just hope others use the same method for anything they buy.
Theo.
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Joel
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/08/04
Posts: 2656
Loc: Merrimack, NH
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I agree with Marcus. I think a company should stay in business because they make a good product not because charitable astronomers help them out. The Meade products I've owned have been fine. I think for the amount of stuff they produce the percentage is pretty good. Unfortunately not selling spare parts and requiring expensive factory returns for long periods of time seems off kilter to me.
All this being said, I don't think our market is going to save Meade. I think the money that built them up over the years was the schlock they put in shopping malls. I saw tons of that stuff well before I ever bought my first telescope.
-------------------- Joel
10" LX200GPS UHTC-SMT
Vixen 80EDsf
Canon unmodded 350D
QHY8
Turkey Hill Observatory
Edited by Joel (08/09/08 10:55 AM)
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KimB
super member
Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 156
Loc: UK
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In my experience the QC issues aren't a recent development. This is the history of my scope since purchase in Nov 05
Nov 05 - LNT clock stops - battery loose. Jan 06 - Excessive backlash in dec gears - scope back to Meade. Feb 06 - Identified misaligned diagonal - replaced. Feb 06 - Finder scope fell off. Screws not long enough. Apr 06 - Clicking sound from dec gears - Back to Meade again. Jul 06 - Power loss to Autostar - faulty HBX cable - replaced. Jul 06 - Second HBX cable has same problem - replaced. Aug 06 - Third HBX cable playing up but decided to keep it. Nov06 - Feb 07 the odd random slew. Feb 07 - HBX cable became a nuisance - New RJ45 crimped on. Feb 07 - Random slews become much worse - Trapped dec motor cable. Other niggles - LNT RJ plug doesn't click into scope securely and can be easily pulled out. This can sometimes result in cable wrap getting turned off. Don't ask my why. - Repaired poor fit.
A lot of these problems could have been easily avoided and cost pennies to fix. How much extra does it cost for good quality rj connectors and slightly longer screws. After all we do pay almost twice the price for the scope here in the UK.
I do worry that with all these problems with the bits I can test, how can we be sure that there aren't other problems with the optics etc.
-------------------- 8" Meade lx90 LNT
Edited by KimB (08/09/08 05:16 PM)
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Joel
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/08/04
Posts: 2656
Loc: Merrimack, NH
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I'm assuming you meant to type Nov 05 instead of 95. Seeing it's an LNT I think that was a recent model. If it was 95 I'd say you got a good ten years before it all went south on you!
-------------------- Joel
10" LX200GPS UHTC-SMT
Vixen 80EDsf
Canon unmodded 350D
QHY8
Turkey Hill Observatory
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KimB
super member
Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 156
Loc: UK
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Sorry, should read Nov 05.
Can't get the hang of touch typing numbers on a laptop.
-------------------- 8" Meade lx90 LNT
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 4330
Loc: Ireland
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Meade has evidently just discontinued the RCX400/LX400ACF fork-mounted scopes. They'll still be making the 16" and 20" versions for the MaxMount GEM.
Wow. I didn't see that coming....
-- Jeff.
-------------------- Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-125 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Here's my experience with Meade:
1993 ETX 90 (still have)
1993 ETX 90 Astro, donated to a children's camp
1993 LX200 8" Perfect, traded to upgrade
1993 LX200 10" Perfect, kept till 2004. Never a problem
2004 LX200 14" Perfect, never a problem
2004 102ED Perfect, still have
2004 SN-10 Never a problem, too big and EP holder on wrong end
2005 5" Achro and mount, ok but cheap rebranded Chinese
2006 127ED Perfect, never a problem
2007 14" LX200 OTA with big mirror chip. Worked fine with broke mirror.
Then I don't recall the exact dates but:
RCX 10" Wonderful scope, 1 problem but worked fine afterwards
4-ACF 10" OTAs, Never could get them to collimate right
2-ACF 12" OTAs, Trash in tubes, grease on baffle, sent back
ACF 14" OTA, current monster scope. Fantastic optics and works like it should. Came shipped in Kleenex box with gummy-bears for packing. How it survived the trip I'll never know. But it is a true light gathering instrument.
If I think back I don't believe either company was right after their legal battle. Not just the expense and resources of the legal fray but the price competition they got into as they fought it out. Celestron sold out shortly after the settlement and Meade hasn't performed well since.
I think they, as well as Celestron, have been a fantastic benefit to the furthering of Astronomical knowledge. A lot of discoveries are made by folks using those OTAs. Hope they work it out.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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Wmacky
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 583
Loc: Middleburg Fl US
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I was all set to buy a new Meade on my rentry to astronomy. Then I read a post here where an OTA was shipped to the customer loose, and rolling around in a cardboard box with no padding.
Dear God!
-------------------- William
C-11 SCT
EON 80ED
CGE
Canon 40D
Phillips SPC900
SS Autoguider
Scopebuggy
Edited by Wmacky (08/09/08 10:12 PM)
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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It had some padding. Just wasn't protecting the scope. This is what I saw opening the box. The scope works great though.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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ylin
sage
Reged: 05/23/05
Posts: 257
Loc: Irvine, CA
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I got my Meade 102ED/LXD650 from Meade outlet few years back. They were all well packed. I believe even I drop it, it won't have any problem.
What happen now? Just put a heavy scope in a big box?
-------------------- Yusen
MN66/Meade 102ED/William Optics ZS80FD [天鵝牌紅標米洒]/SVF50B2
Meade LXD650/AstroTech Voyager
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Wmacky
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 583
Loc: Middleburg Fl US
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Yeah, thats the one. It sent me running. My previous scope was a meade, and I have always thought that the Meade SCT's where the finest looking. Love those massive industrial looking forks. Then I heard about service issues, and saw that pic! It was like Meade had forced me to look elsewhere. I'm sure I haven't been the only one. Thats a shame.
-------------------- William
C-11 SCT
EON 80ED
CGE
Canon 40D
Phillips SPC900
SS Autoguider
Scopebuggy
Edited by Wmacky (08/10/08 04:09 AM)
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KimB
super member
Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 156
Loc: UK
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Well mine came very well packed, back in 05. It was nestled in shaped covered foam, inside two cardboard boxes. Survived the trip back to Meade twice without any problems. Are you sure that wasn't a used scope repacked at the supplier?
-------------------- 8" Meade lx90 LNT
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KimB
super member
Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 156
Loc: UK
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Another couple of items to add to my lx90 history which I missed off my original list.
NOv 07 - Buttons on Autostar hard to press. MAR 08 - Backlash identified int Az (cause ?) JUN 08 - eyepiece clamp Thread in diagonal striped.
-------------------- 8" Meade lx90 LNT
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Quote:
Well mine came very well packed, back in 05. It was nestled in shaped covered foam, inside two cardboard boxes. Survived the trip back to Meade twice without any problems. Are you sure that wasn't a used scope repacked at the supplier?
Nope. This one was hand picked at Meade by the VP of Customer Service at the request of the dealer. I had direct communication with Meade and they knew it would be reviewed here on CN. This was just before the shut down in California. It was one of the last ones made. Had to wait several months on it.
All the other scopes from Meade were packed perfectly (see list above). The LX200 14" GPS fork model was so well packed it took nearly an hour to get into it. Still have the two massive boxes it came in. One inside the other.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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Aircrftr
sage
Reged: 09/29/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Claremore OK
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Jerry, did Meade ever give a reason why it was packed like that? Disgruntled employee? Or new guy without a clue?
-------------------- Explore Scientific 127ED
Orion 190mm MacNewt
Cannon 50D
SBIG STL 11000M C2
AP 1200 (on order)
DSI PRO
All stored in my "Mt. Wilson Observatory" elev.610 ft.
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Joel
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/08/04
Posts: 2656
Loc: Merrimack, NH
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Quote:
Jerry, did Meade ever give a reason why it was packed like that? Disgruntled employee? Or new guy without a clue?
That was what I was thinking. The guy who packed it already knew he was being laid off.
-------------------- Joel
10" LX200GPS UHTC-SMT
Vixen 80EDsf
Canon unmodded 350D
QHY8
Turkey Hill Observatory
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Rat
sage
Reged: 10/13/06
Posts: 215
Loc: USA
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Reading all this makes me sad.
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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The VP, Scott, said they would look into it. It was just a short time later they shut down. I'm sure they were in the process when mine was sent out. Just wasn't made public yet.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Ya got me thinking though. Mine wasn't the only one sent like that. Another member received one in similar packing material. I'll look up that post when I get back tonight.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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Aircrftr
sage
Reged: 09/29/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Claremore OK
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I think he is the guy from Hawaii, has an animated airplane for an avatar?
-------------------- Explore Scientific 127ED
Orion 190mm MacNewt
Cannon 50D
SBIG STL 11000M C2
AP 1200 (on order)
DSI PRO
All stored in my "Mt. Wilson Observatory" elev.610 ft.
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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I believe it was Dan. Thanks, that'll help with my search.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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This is unacceptable!!!
In 2003-2004, my meade lx90 emc that im still using to this day, was packaged in thick Styrofoam and double boxed with an absurd number of layered padding.
Your picture jerry, makes me think that they were playing a practical joke on you. That is no way to send any item that weighs over 20 pounds! any slight bump or drop would have almost definitely cracked that ota on the inside.
Quite shocking indeed, but just as someone said previously, perhaps since this person already knew he was gonna be fired, why put in any effort? i can understand the situation.
The ones who suffer are us customers at the end of the day though.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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southmike
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/22/04
Posts: 2832
Loc: Fayetteville, NC
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holy bad packing job batman
-------------------- group scope pic
my refractors
LX200 10"-St120
LX200 8" f6.3-Orion 80ed
LX200 8" f10-Orion 90 Mak setup pic
Meade 102ED LXD650
Sky Watcher 100 ED Triplet prototype
Nexstar 5
etx125
etx70's
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wrather1
AstroBear
   
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 4158
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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'Ceptins it came from Jerry, I would never have believed that picture represented the truth. And I have seen some pretty bad packing jobs in my day.
What I have received from Meade came in large, sturdy cardboard boxes with foam-in-place packing materials. Of course, that was in 2005. No telling what you'd get THESE days...
-------------------- "Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS + EQ6-PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
EOS 30D (Hutech), ToUcam Pro, Star Shoot Autoguider, Meade DSI
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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Kolenka
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 1010
Loc: Seattle Area, WA, USA
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Quote:
What I have received from Meade came in large, sturdy cardboard boxes with foam-in-place packing materials. Of course, that was in 2005. No telling what you'd get THESE days...
I got the same stuff with my recent purchase. I would hate to see if this was 'operating procedure' for the OTA-only orders when they first started offering the LX200R OTAs.
-------------------- Orion XX12 / Orion 80ED OTA / AT66ED
Nagler 7T6, 9T6, 13T6, 17T4, 26T5
Canon XS, TIS DMK 31AF03, AstroTrac TT320X
Northwest Astro Photoblog
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Joad
Wordsmith
   
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 13590
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I'll repeat what I've said before about my meade packing experience: I drove my scope directly to Meade's Irvine headquarters/factory for a routine focuser/maintenance/cleaning ($100 total) in 2007. My scope was sent back to me, at Meade's expense, in "large, sturdy cardboard boxes with foam-in-place packing materials"--as quoted from above. Something strange happened to Jerry.
-------------------- 12.5 inch Portaball + Osypowski platform
LX10
Oberwerk BT100 45° binocular
Orion binoviewer + ScopeStuff extender (so it focuses at f/4.9)
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Something strange happened to Konadan too. He got his around the same time in the same packing. He didn't make out as well as I did. Kinda busted his up. Maybe those of us buying new OTAs only at the very end were fortunate enough to get the poor packing. As I said above, all my Meade products have been packed to a Tee and double boxed.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Looking back at Konadan's thread I see one of the rare times I almost got emotional. I really wanted a jam-up 14" LX200R. I bet Joad was about to send me to time out. Man what a sad time. This is all a mute point now though. Things have changed and I'm sure Meade has fixed the problem. Here is my thread with more pictures.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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Joad
Wordsmith
   
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 13590
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Now Jerry, old chap, it would never occur to me to "send you to time out." You're always about as useful and good natured as a CNer can get. I just miss you 'round these parts with all that two-timing with nice refractors you've been doing.
-------------------- 12.5 inch Portaball + Osypowski platform
LX10
Oberwerk BT100 45° binocular
Orion binoviewer + ScopeStuff extender (so it focuses at f/4.9)
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Thanks Joad.
By the way, beware those long tubed things. A good deal (relatively speaking) came along and my first view of a 2nd quarter Moon through one of those 6" things scared me. I don't even like looking at the Moon that much. That was the coldest most baron image of any object I've seen. Beyond realistic. But those long tube rascals won't do a great job on M82 or a lot of other Messier objects. No scope is perfect but the SCT/ACFs are about the best all around compromise. (Oops.... did I ramble?)
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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bicparker
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/07/05
Posts: 1759
Loc: Plano, TX
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http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/primenewswire/148511.htm
Their market capitalization is still below their book. I was wondering when this would come out when their stock first went below $1. It will still be several months before anything comes of this. Of course, other things may happen in the meantime (continued asset sales, inventory liquidations, etc.).
-------------------- Bic Parker
17.5" f/5 dob
10" f/10 SCT
5" f/8 refractor
80mm f/6 refractor
66mm f/6 refractor
Plus a few others out of the rotation
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Jerry i was so appalled by your pictures that i decided to take some of my own. Here is what a 2002 Meade lx90 box looks like...i pulled it out of my storage closet just for you guys.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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here
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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this box that it originally came in is so good i have used it to transport the telescope on vacation with me a few times. I still havent bought a REAL telescope carrying case yet but i plan on it.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Joel
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/08/04
Posts: 2656
Loc: Merrimack, NH
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That's pretty skimpy padding Brooklyn. My LX200 circa 2004 has the foam fitting padding that you can use with the soft case. I've gotten stuffed dog toys in the mail packed better than that.
-------------------- Joel
10" LX200GPS UHTC-SMT
Vixen 80EDsf
Canon unmodded 350D
QHY8
Turkey Hill Observatory
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Well this right here gave me a good laugh when i found it.
Remember this is from the irvine cali factory, and back in 2002 when everything was still peachy at meade.
Or so we thought....notice that warranty paper lying near the boxes? It was for 3 missing viewfinder collimation screws that somehow the quality assurance guy seemed to have missed? Interesting how a product can somehow pass the production line missing necessary parts for function.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Quote:
That's pretty skimpy padding Brooklyn. My LX200 circa 2004 has the foam fitting padding that you can use with the soft case. I've gotten stuffed dog toys in the mail packed better than that.
Well compared to what happened with another posters OTA, this is more than acceptible.
Also note that some of the padding is missing from the box in the picture i took. When we got it originally the telescope was inside 4 different bubble bags, and THEN it was inside the green foam that is stationary in the box. All in all not too bad.
-------------------- Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Aircrftr
sage
Reged: 09/29/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Claremore OK
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Well, good news and bad news for me and Meade..... I trouble shot my 14" LX200R mount problem down to the circuit board for the control panel. About a month ago they agreed to let me buy a board from them and install it myself. Said it would take about a month or so.... Well, I call back today and he checks on it, says it will be another month or so because I am about NBR.130 IN LINE TO GET THE SAME BOARD !! The tech I have been talking to on this problem since the beginning also told me that today is his last day. He is jumping ship because they are downsizing again and he will most likely get the ax anyway. I didn't have any idea so many other people were having problems with this mount series and board in particular. It's definitely good that they are sending parts rather than being inflexible about sending the scope back to CA/MEX.
-------------------- Explore Scientific 127ED
Orion 190mm MacNewt
Cannon 50D
SBIG STL 11000M C2
AP 1200 (on order)
DSI PRO
All stored in my "Mt. Wilson Observatory" elev.610 ft.
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Joad
Wordsmith
   
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 13590
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We're sort of all over the map here, topic-wise, folks. One could say that the main theme is that the future of Meade lies in its quality control, and with problematic QC (as per various examples here), that future may be negatively affected. Still, it might be best to keep equipment posts out of a business thread.
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Aircrftr
sage
Reged: 09/29/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Claremore OK
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Quote:
Let's recall that this is a telescope forum, not a financial forum, folks.

No problem Joad. Just thought the post was a little relevant to both....
-------------------- Explore Scientific 127ED
Orion 190mm MacNewt
Cannon 50D
SBIG STL 11000M C2
AP 1200 (on order)
DSI PRO
All stored in my "Mt. Wilson Observatory" elev.610 ft.
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Now if the Clouds would just let up long enough to use the 14" I could remember why I had to have one.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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kennyrichmond
sage
   
Reged: 11/29/06
Posts: 418
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
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Jerry,
Meade is coming to Cherry Springs Sept. 5-7. Put the scope in the SUV, and tug that trailer up to North Central PA. A lot of the folks are setting up before Labor Day to make a week of it.
Ken R.
-------------------- Irish Setters
Max Mount 20"
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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You know what Kenny.... I'm thinking about it. I am so overpaid and under worked right now (oops, dyslexia again). I desperately need some time off. I doubt I can get away but will see if the schedule can be stretched. Tks for the reminder.
Thing is, my travel outfit is the FS-152 and AP Mach-1. But then, I know some folks with very large Meades that will be there.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Well just plain shucks.... So much for time off.
Quote:
Registration is CLOSED
Mark your calendars, BFSP 2008 will be September 5-7, 2008. Registration is CLOSED. We are full. Thank you for your support!
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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kennyrichmond
sage
   
Reged: 11/29/06
Posts: 418
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
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Jerry, There's a work-around if you want to show up. PM me. If there is one person on CN that Meade owes an explanation to, it's you. They have 4 extra vendor passes. If you're not afraid, why you could have a Meade cap, dark blue shirt and decals for your trailer. Whadda ya say? I wonder if there are any volunteers among the posters here who would like to conduct the x-examination of Meade reps-under oath?
Ken R.
-------------------- Irish Setters
Max Mount 20"
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JerryWise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 8148
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Thanks Kenny. I'm fine with Meade and understand what they are going through. They have given me a lot of pleasure over time with just that one tiny little hiccup awhile back.
I'm trying to move things around but that looks like a bad time. We are listing a couple of our properties and I'm also in for a "Cadillac" operation in the left eye that week. Man I would like to see one dark clear night. It's been May since the last one here.
-------------------- Jerry
Celestron C-11, ED-100, CG-5
Meade 102ED, LX200R 14"
Takahashi FS-60c, FS-78, FS-152, TOA 150
Astro-Physics 1200, M-1, AP-140 F7.5
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kennyrichmond
sage
   
Reged: 11/29/06
Posts: 418
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
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Jerry, I'm hoping the Meade folks will be introducing something new at Black Forest, and maybe bring my new boards for installation/testing there. Cadillac surgery? I'm thinking that I might need a few nips and tucks myself. Results so far with incense sticks have been very disappointing.
Ken R.
-------------------- Irish Setters
Max Mount 20"
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Duncan Rosie
super member
Reged: 02/14/04
Posts: 135
Loc: South Africa
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Hi Kenny,
I hear that an incense stick (lit, and sans whale pants) up the butt will get some aerobic exercise happening, haven't tried it myself though! Please post the video on YouTube.
On a more serious note, I do hope Meade make a splash soon, it will do all of us Meade "ambassadors" some good.
-------------------- Duncan Rosie
ETX-125
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kennyrichmond
sage
   
Reged: 11/29/06
Posts: 418
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
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So Duncan,
In so many words
you're proposing an elbow flapping, hop-scotching square dance as the attractant for the astronomically under-represented sex to my Meade scope?? If Jerry could show up with an eyepatch, I might not have to perform this solo. Do you think it would then double Meade's prospects if we did this under a blacklight at night with day-glo striped limbs?
This is exactly the kind of suggestion we need here.
Ken R.
-------------------- Irish Setters
Max Mount 20"
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Duncan Rosie
super member
Reged: 02/14/04
Posts: 135
Loc: South Africa
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Hi Kenny,
Sounds like you've got the production storyboarded already!
I think it should make the cover page of the '09 catalogue.
-------------------- Duncan Rosie
ETX-125
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imjeffp
Aluminum Falcon
   
Reged: 09/30/03
Posts: 4977
Loc: Cedar Park, Texas
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I thought about Meade when I read this story about Rickenbacker guitars
Quote:
Rickenbacker won't manufacture abroad or add a discount line below its current $1,500 to $5,000 retail- price range, Hall said.
"I could do it with a phone call, but it dilutes the brand, the image of the company, the product,'' he said. "Beyond that, we need the work here. Why ship it off someplace else?''
Sounds to me like AP or TeleVue. Can't you just hear Roland or Al saying the exact same thing?
--------------------
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
   
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 6264
Loc: Inner Solar System
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No. But I can hear Don Yeier (Vernonscope) saying pretty much those exact words.
-------------------- - Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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jessie2003
journeyman
Reged: 11/13/06
Posts: 5
Loc: Michigan
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I certainly hope they pull out of this. The board went out on my LX200R several months ago and Meade's solution was to ship all 70lbs of glass and metal back to California (and then no doubt to Mexico). I would have to pay them a hefty fee to fix it and then they did not guarantee they could. Luckily, I own a smaller LX200 and was able to put board from one in the other. So I have one working telescope and $2000 of glass and metal sitting in my closet.
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