Anonymous
Unregistered
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Now that the initial wave of fervor re the RCX announcement has abated, I was wondering who has had any actual "pre" experience with the RCX (beta tested it and can talk about it, seen it at a show and/or looked at something through it, works at Meade and wants to talk, ha, ha, or any real experience)? Thought even if its one person it might be interesting or if any of you got close to this thing.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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It is interesting based on lack of response to this question how few people actually know anything about RCX first hand. Is anyone out there?
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Grizz
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 2172
Loc: Waldwick,New Jersey USA
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I guess we will have to wait for user reports. I read the 10" will be shipping before the end of Feb. The 12's? I guess sometime after that. Beta testers? Thats usually us. 
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Craig
LX200GPS 10" UHTC SMT
ETX90EC
Orion ED80 APO
Meade LPI Canon 10d Meade DSI
My Photo Gallery
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22464
Loc: NE Ohio
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There are units in beta test, but the testers are forbidden to discuss it until later in the process. I don't know who they are but with any luck some are or will become CN members.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
152mm F/10 achromat
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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Strgazr27
Scope Junkie
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 6018
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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My question is this. If this is supposed to be an amazing platform for imaging, than where are the images being shot with it? Why is it we have not seen a single one? Sounds to me like we could be headed down another DSI superhighway again. I remember hearing about it, than 2 months later a bunch of pics shot with it, than 10 more months of waiting.
I would think that a scope that is supposed to start shipping this month would have had concrete figures as far as weight, what wedge etc.
The lack of firm facts and ZERO images taken with a scope meant for it are a little disconcerting if you as me. This is MOST frustrating as I have finalized my setup down to either a 10" RCX with the wedge or a G-11 w Gemini/ST-80 combo both using a Modified D20. The wait for Meade to show it's cards is very quickly pushing me towards the LOMO.
JMO.
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Bobby
StonyHill Observatory
Atlas w EQMOD
Vixen R200SS
Orion ED-80
AT-111
AT66-ED
QHY-8
SSAG
YAHOO TMB 130SS Group
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Stargazer27: You reasoning was why I posed the question. I certainly understand that Beta testers can't talk, but it is surprising (I think) that a product which is going to ship in 30 days or less isn't finished Beta testing. And the lack of images is also interesting. My guess is that they are not that near to shipping. Also, even if Beta testers can't talk about the specifics of what they learn from the beta test, you mean they can't even say they're beta testing? I've beta tested software and was under no such restriction. Also, this forum has over 4,000 members and its viewed worldwide, you mean that not ONE PERSON has any more info than we see on the web pages? I'm just curious and its fun to be a sluth, but it does seem to point to the fact that delivery is farther off than this month and that the units themselves may be going under significant revision. I guess all we have is guesses.
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melvy
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Shoreline WA
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Quote:
My question is this. If this is supposed to be an amazing platform for imaging, than where are the images being shot with it?
JMO.
I belive the NDA is still in effect... sorry.
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WO Megrez 80 SAPO
WO 66 SD APO
TMB SS 130 APO
C8 XLT SCT
Losmandy GM-8 w/Gemini
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini
Discmount DM6
SBIG ST-2000XM/AO7
Marc Elvy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Do you believe the non disclosure agreement will be lifted upon first delivery or do you think it extends well beyond that? The other unsual aspect of this is that typically trade magazines (and even reviewing forums such as this) get advance copies of a product so that their reviews can coincide with release. Has this happened? I believe that will probably be the public's next sign that shipping is imminent.
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22464
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
The other unsual aspect of this is that typically trade magazines (and even reviewing forums such as this) get advance copies of a product so that their reviews can coincide with release.
Review venues, such as the magazines and course CN, tend to be granted some priority in delivery of new gear but most refuse to review preproduction models. Most reviewers also don't want to look at preselected gear handpicked and supplied by the manufacturer for review purposes - though I've noticed that S&T has apparently abandoned this policy. We want to see the gear that is actually being produced and offered to the public, which means we need to acquire the equipment through the normal distribution channels.
This means that the magazines, with their tremendous lead times, usually don't get the reviews out until long after the product begins shipping. Online sources such as CN can get the word out more quickly, but it still takes however long it takes to thoroughly evaluate the gear after it's received. For those of us who happen to live in areas like Ohio there can be additional delays while we wait for the weather to cooperate!
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
152mm F/10 achromat
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 6876
Loc: Lexington, SC
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"This means that the magazines, with their tremendous lead times, usually don't get the reviews out until long after the product begins shipping."
____________________________________________________
Interesting point. Also of interest is the latest issues of both magazines don't have any ads for the RCX.
I once had a great salesman head of the sales department. I would bring everybody in and we would brainstorm a new product. We would talk to customers about what this future fantastic product should be. Then, in meetings we would say this is what we are going to build. It will be ready in 8 months for beta but won't ship for a year. Would not be 30 days before this product was getting sold with delivery promised in 6 months. The reasons you would hear for pre-selling: beat the competition, they wouldn't buy anything else, losing business, on and on. Sales will outrun development to meet numbers and make money. The pre-production software had all the look and feel of the final product but many areas were untested (or not even started).
Meade seems to carry this a bit further than most. The LXD55 was clearly pre-sold, took forever and was "Sanford and Son" material in the early shipments (to those from other countries, "Sanford and Son" was a tv series about a junk yard). The LXD75 I have now seems fine.
In a very weak defense for them, until you have designed, created, tested, marketed and sold a complex product in the face of competitive restraints the reasons for doing it will not be clear. It's not fair to most but that's the way it is.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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Strgazr27
Scope Junkie
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 6018
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Quote:
Quote:
My question is this. If this is supposed to be an amazing platform for imaging, than where are the images being shot with it?
JMO.
I belive the NDA is still in effect... sorry.
Why should this carry over to images shot with the scope? I geuss a camera as revolutionary as the DSI was supposed to be carried no NDA ?? Even if it is an NDA issue, how does releasing a photo shot with the scope reveal any specifics about it? Unless the images aren't what they are saying they will be 
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Bobby
StonyHill Observatory
Atlas w EQMOD
Vixen R200SS
Orion ED-80
AT-111
AT66-ED
QHY-8
SSAG
YAHOO TMB 130SS Group
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Clearly there is something that is delaying the scope's appearance. No ads, no photos, etc. post such a big announcement is peculiar. Its hard for me to believe the "sell it then create it theory". I would think more likely what is going on is: create it, beta test and sell it, then based on the amont of issues that the beta test revealed, fix them before you actually ship. I'm actually pleased if that is what they are doing. I'd rather have them be very careful before relase then release a dog. We can't hae it both ways - a quick release and then complain if its not good. Now if I was CEO of Meade (and not my company) I would do it a little differently: R&D, Beta test, bring back for improvements, beta test again, the advertise, sell, ship. But maybe I'm not such a cut throat person.
-Steve (the soft CEO!)
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22464
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Clearly there is something that is delaying the scope's appearance. No ads, no photos, etc. post such a big announcement is peculiar.
Don't read too much into it. They haven't yet failed to meet even the most optimistic projections for a ship date. Remember that if ads had been placed several weeks before the big announcement they wouldn't have appeared yet. If they had been placed months before the big announcement and a problem had cropped up, a cancellation would not yet have taken effect and the ads would now be out, so we know they didn't suddenly pull their ads. We know that Meade took a great deal of flak regarding their 14" LX200GPS ad campaign in which artist's representations were used rather than actual photos - it's likely that they delayed placing their ads until they were very near production so they could have photos of the final production version.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
152mm F/10 achromat
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22464
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Why should this carry over to images shot with the scope?
Hi, Bobby.
I can reveal that I'm not a beta tester and I haven't signed an NDA or used an RCX. If I were a beta tester, I don't know how I could publish images without revealing that fact and thus violating the NDA. Meade probably has some images submitted to them by the testers, but unless they are CERTAIN that the beta test units will precisely represent the production units they'd be crazy to release those images and open themselves up to the kind of rabid accusations any deviations would surely draw.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
152mm F/10 achromat
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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Strgazr27
Scope Junkie
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 6018
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Quote:
Hi, Bobby.
I can reveal that I'm not a beta tester and I haven't signed an NDA or used an RCX. If I were a beta tester, I don't know how I could publish images without revealing that fact and thus violating the NDA.
The images couldbe provided by Meade themselves. No names or locations etc. just the images so that optical quality could at least be seen. I would be much more willing to jump on the pre-order bandwagon with some proof of optical/mount excellence.
Quote:
Meade probably has some images submitted to them by the testers, but unless they are CERTAIN that the beta test units will precisely represent the production units they'd be crazy to release those images and open themselves up to the kind of rabid accusations any deviations would surely draw.
You mean they wouldn't pull another DSI on us. I still haven't seen anyone pull off images like they show the first night out. I would think that with ship dates of late Feb as they have stated, they should be well past final beta testing and into actual production. To me it's typical Meade advertising and operating procedure. Announce a product, get the juices flowing, ask for pre orders with no additonal info besides the website and nothing specific about the scope other than the specs they released on the website. To me it's just weird marketing strategy.
Are you SURE your not a Beta tester
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Bobby
StonyHill Observatory
Atlas w EQMOD
Vixen R200SS
Orion ED-80
AT-111
AT66-ED
QHY-8
SSAG
YAHOO TMB 130SS Group
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22464
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Are you SURE your not a Beta tester
As an early adopter of several recent new models by Meade and Celestron I've certainly done some of what the beta testers should have done (as have all the early adopters)! 
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
152mm F/10 achromat
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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Grizz
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 2172
Loc: Waldwick,New Jersey USA
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Steve,
As John said don't read too much into the delay in introduction of the RCX. Meade has rarely if ever hit their release dates for anything. The LXD55s were late as were the LXD75s, DSIs and the LX200GPSs. I don't agree with Meade's marketing procedure but thats the way they do it and at least they are consistent! 
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Craig
LX200GPS 10" UHTC SMT
ETX90EC
Orion ED80 APO
Meade LPI Canon 10d Meade DSI
My Photo Gallery
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melvy
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Shoreline WA
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Why should this carry over to images shot with the scope? I geuss a camera as revolutionary as the DSI was supposed to be carried no NDA ?? Even if it is an NDA issue, how does releasing a photo shot with the scope reveal any specifics about it? Unless the images aren't what they are saying they will be
I can't say for telescopes, but I have signed a lot of NDA's for Microsoft and other software developers. Microsoft like Meade has a lot of competitors and detractors. If I am say- doing beta for a game, I may be testing the physics of the game and none of the artwork is in yet. If I send in a screen shot of the game in beta it would look terrible because the art department has not added the "pretty" yet. Even though it plays great this screen shot could destroy the product before it is even launched once the detractors get a hold of it and publicize their spin to the masses. So NDA's say release no information at all, there is just less risk that way.
That is my thinking anyway 
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WO Megrez 80 SAPO
WO 66 SD APO
TMB SS 130 APO
C8 XLT SCT
Losmandy GM-8 w/Gemini
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini
Discmount DM6
SBIG ST-2000XM/AO7
Marc Elvy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I created this thread not only for the interesting comments so far, but also so the first person who can talk about their experience with the RCX might be inclined to post here.
It'll be interesting...standing by....
Didn't anyone see the scope up close at the last convention?
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bluesman
sage
Reged: 01/14/05
Posts: 211
Loc: N Yorkshire. UK
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Aren't the consumer driven public to blame here? Lets face it there are many who have placed a pre-order on this scope without seeing any neutral reviews beyond Meades own advo. The DSI is a good analogy, and that started to appear on seconhand sites almost immediately!
Ed
UK
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Strgazr27
Scope Junkie
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 6018
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Quote:
If I am say- doing beta for a game, I may be testing the physics of the game and none of the artwork is in yet. If I send in a screen shot of the game in beta it would look terrible because the art department has not added the "pretty" yet. Even though it plays great this screen shot could destroy the product before it is even launched once the detractors get a hold of it and publicize their spin to the masses.
Totally different subject here though. Of course a game developer wouldn't release a screenie of a game with physics test graphics. But they sure as heck do release them when the time is right. You won't see screenies at the physic test level as that is usually the first thing developed unless your starting from scratch with a new graphics engine as well. The biggest issue at stake here is the quality of the optics. The optics are what they are and really shouldn't change unless there are BIG issues with it. Are they Beta testing the mount? The electric focus? the auto collimation? the electronics? What I am asking for for $5000 is give me an idea of what the scope can produce from an image standpoint. I could care less about the collimation, focus or USB ports.
If Meade is still worried about releasing pictures becuase they are Beta testing the scope at this point than I feel bad for those who pre-ordered and were told sometime in late Feb. I think a snowball has a better chance in H***. Unless Meade is just waiting to burst onto the scene with these mind blowing images. Highly unlikely. I'm not a hater by any stretch. I want the images so I can make up my mind which way I would like to go although I am90% sure it's towards a G-11 based platform as there is NO WAY I think they can get the accuracy they are talking about out of that Tripod/Wedge/Mount combo.
JMO
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Bobby
StonyHill Observatory
Atlas w EQMOD
Vixen R200SS
Orion ED-80
AT-111
AT66-ED
QHY-8
SSAG
YAHOO TMB 130SS Group
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AZDeepSky
sage
Reged: 09/19/04
Posts: 344
Loc: Tijeras, NM
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Didn't Yogi Berra accurately frame the issue that's being discussed: "Deja vu all over again." 
Let us count the ways that corporations -- whether purveyors of telescopes, skis, software, computers, chips, ad infinitum -- milk consumers with every known and all the newest marketing tricks. Such as the mid-season introduction of next years skis. The pre-announcement from Billy World of a fantastically improved OS that's soon going to be out.
There is one well known and time tested palliative for marketing blitzs of any type: caveat emptor. (And how I hate it when my will weakens: as with FOMOCO's marketing for the new T-Bird. A retro-beauty that drilled this forever young 60some year old right in the "I want it. I want it!")
I think of the Meade RC this way: although I admired the beautiful two (sometimes 3) page Televue spread inside the front cover of my favorite magazine, I didn't pony up the cash until some photons coming through those luscious EPs actually caressed my retina. Observational satori! Ordered the next day.
Does Meade have the marketing savoir faire to sell a bunch of these scopes before they're released? Already done so is my guess. Will this line take over the low-end of the RC market? Likely so. Will the scope in whatever configuration live up to the marketing blitz? Yes with some claims, and no with others, of course.
And for me? No plans at all to purchase a Meade RC. If I ever get the itch again I'll have to have a really big piece of glass. But still, I'd love to have a look through one!
One final question re. astrophotgraphy: will the R. Gendler's and Suk Lee's migrate to this platform? I'd be surprised if they did. The high-end of astrophotography is -- shall I say -- equipment intensive and expertise demanding.
Cheers.
Max
--------------------
Tak-Epsilon-180ED f/2.8
SV-115 f/7 TMB design
CGE x 2
SBIG-ST-2000XCM x 2
Canon 40D x 2
TV-.8FocalReducer
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22464
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
I want the images so I can make up my mind which way I would like to go although I am90% sure it's towards a G-11 based platform as there is NO WAY I think they can get the accuracy they are talking about out of that Tripod/Wedge/Mount combo.
JMO
While there is much about the new series we won't know until can see one, the drive base on the sub-16" models is clearly very similar to that on the 14" LX200GPS. That one's been out for a year and a half, so if I wondered about the mount and drives I'd be asking 14" Meade owners.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
152mm F/10 achromat
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 6876
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Quote:
..............And how I hate it when my will weakens: as with FOMOCO's marketing for the new T-Bird. A retro-beauty that drilled this forever young 60some year old right in the "I want it. I want it!"...........
Max, I agree with you on these comments. It's strange you mention this as a comparision. Were it just a lot of smoke and mirrors Ford or Meade would never stay in business. In the case of the T-Bird, it does have retro looks but not to the extreme of the new GM and Chrysler offerings. But the T-bird will scream, has an awesome engine, well appointed, rides like a dream, has every option in the book and is priced fairly. It's not a practical car to carry lawm mowers in but does what it is intended to do well.
The RCX will prabably be the same. I have scopes from the three mass market manufacturers. They are all good. Meade has had their moments over the years. The Pictors, LXD55s, some of their software. But I never have had a moments problem from 1994 forward with 8", 10" and 14" LX200s, 2 ETXs, and 1 LXD75. They can make stuff work.
Would I get the first RCX? I don't think so. But they will make those work too. I had my first support call to Meade (ever) yesterday. I was taking the LXD75 mount out of the observatory. The tripod was against the wall at the top of the stairs. It slipped and fell down two flights of stairs knocking holes in the wall. C-clip popped off and the screw shaft was bent. Nothing else was hurt. Called Meade to buy another shaft and a few c-clips and the support guy would have none of it. Said he would cover it under warranty.
Do I like Meade's show boat marketing. No, but I didn't care for Janet Jackson's Superbowl stunt either. (Put her back in the limelight though.)
And Max, on the T-Bird..... my wife's is Silver.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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AZDeepSky
sage
Reged: 09/19/04
Posts: 344
Loc: Tijeras, NM
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Jerry, Ha! The T-Bird isn't the end of it either! The 340HP GTO has caught my eye too. There's something about the 50s and 60s that will always be there, lurking in the back of my mind, awaiting a tweak from some marketing expert. So it goes.
So does Mama let you drive the Bird?
You're right on when you ask: "Would I get the first RCX? I don't think so." And so true, as you note, that Meade will fix whatever bugs exist.
Back in the Pleistocene (late 70s, that's 1970s, not 1870s) I had a wonderful 12.5" Meade Newtonian. A beast of a scope that offered pin-point stellar images. But once my backyard observatory was overwhelmed by light pollution, portability issues quickly led to declining use.
My taste for the C14 instead of the 14" LX-200 was largely driven by portability and set-up issues (as I am sans observatory for another couple of years) rather than any corporate marketing claims of optical or mechanical superiority. The OT/alt-az assembly of the M14 is a beast! Which is not to say a fully assembled CGE1400 is petite. The pieces are just a lot smaller.
Clearly the larger aperture RCX scopes will also pose portability and set up (big pieces) challenges. There's just no way around that problem.
And despite marketing claims, and those of devoted users, my views over the years through C and M products(allowing for aperture) "tell" my eyes that those ancient photons do not know whether they were collected by M or C. And ditto re. SCT, Newtonian, RC and so on.
One last question: is it not the case that (1) corporations are always looking for the hot product with a better profit margin; (2) that competition drives down price and thus profit; and thus (3) (sorta like my daddy's bigger than your daddy), we gotta a scope that you don't. And we're gonna charge you an arm and leg to have one.
Cheers.
Max
--------------------
Tak-Epsilon-180ED f/2.8
SV-115 f/7 TMB design
CGE x 2
SBIG-ST-2000XCM x 2
Canon 40D x 2
TV-.8FocalReducer
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Tim13
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 575
Loc: Midwest
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If we're talking retro cars here, then I'd have to vote for the new Mustang. With that classic front end, you don't even have to see the striding horse to know that it's a "pony car".
Tim
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One blue telescope.
One white telescope.
One white(formerly gray!)telescope.
Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I don't spend my money on retro cars (though I understand how nice they are). Instead I waste my money on buying something brand new just out of curiousity, like the RCX (what the h--, so if it has poblems - I'll get that resolved. My supplier says RCX coming in 30 day...but he adds, "but".......
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AZDeepSky
sage
Reged: 09/19/04
Posts: 344
Loc: Tijeras, NM
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Quote:
I don't spend my money on retro cars (though I understand how nice they are). Instead I waste my money on buying something brand new just out of curiousity, like the RCX (what the h--, so if it has poblems - I'll get that resolved. My supplier says RCX coming in 30 day...but he adds, "but".......
Once you have that puppy, you'll definitely be the most popular dude at any star party! Better consider at least a couple of solo trips before you go public!
Good luck.
Cheers.
Max
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Tak-Epsilon-180ED f/2.8
SV-115 f/7 TMB design
CGE x 2
SBIG-ST-2000XCM x 2
Canon 40D x 2
TV-.8FocalReducer
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Out of sheer intimidation, I'll be trying to become quite proficient on the RCX prior to any "public" appearance. Hope you can read this post - just did my Lasik surgery today a few hours ago
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