Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
Hi All,
As I find time, I thought I would post some pics of some other pieces in my collection. I hope you find them enjoyable.
Supuhee, India
The Supuhee chondrite arrived at noon on January 19, 1865, and three of the stones that fell landed on the Bubuowly Indigo Factory.
The specimen number written on paper and glued to the stone is from the Museum of Natural History in London. The number (41050) is referenced in the Catalogue of Meteorites as a nearly complete stone of 55g that fell on the Bubuowly Factory.
This piece is 42g and thus 76% of the entire stone so I guess I can think of this as an almost-individual since more than 3/4ths of it is in one piece.
Here is a link to a painting of an indigo factory painted around the same time of the fall of Supuhee.
http://tinyurl.com/6cdlfu
The cut and polished face of this stone of Supuhee shows that the uniformly black crusted exterior gives no clues as to what excitement is hidden inside.
|
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
The interior of the Supuhee chondrite is wildly brecciated providing an exciting adventure under the glass or scope. Black shock veins slice through light-colored matrix sprinkled with metal flake and chondrules appropriate for an H6 chondrite. The large black inclusion in the upper left has carbonaceous overtones, and the variations in matrix colors makes me suspect this is a polymict breccia.
|
bigbaldjoe
member
Reged: 09/21/07
Posts: 71
Loc: Bethlehem, Georgia
|
|
Everyday I am amazed at what you post and own Zagami. I just have to ask how many meteorites do you have in your collection?
|
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
Hi bigbaldjoe,
Actually, I am not sure how many I have. I'd guess I have a couple hundred locations represented with only about a dozen of those finds and the rest witnessed falls.
I used to have over 700 locations in my collection, but I traded or sold most of the non-fall meteorites to focus almost exclusively on historic witnessed falls. Since I like larger pieces, it is actually easy to collect now because there almost nothing available I don't already have a sample of.
|
Jamie76
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/30/05
Posts: 583
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
|
|
Martin,
I've always been impressed with your meteorite collection. I don't know what I would do with such a collection...especially when it was time for me to meet my maker. Donate to a museum and possibly have the specimens get locked up out of site, or pass on to my family who knows nothing about meteorites and would most likely throw them out or make a rock garden out of them.  Luckily (unluckily) I don't have to make such a difficult decision.
|
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
The Weston Meteorite
On December 14, 1807 at 6:30 on the morning, a fireball reported to be about two-thirds the size of the moon was witnessed traveling southwards by citizens in Vermont and Massachusetts. Three loud explosions were heard over the town of Weston in Fairfield County, Connecticut.
A couple days later, a Yale professor in “chymistry” named Benjamin Silliman heard of the event, and along with Professor James L. Kingsley, began a comprehensive investigation of what was later to be called the Weston meteorite fall, the first meteorite fall in the United States.
They interviewed many eyewitnesses to the fall, and discovered that some of the large stones including a 200-pound individual, had been smashed to pieces. Others were broken apart by the finders because of a false, but not uncommon belief quoted as:
“Strongly impressed with the idea that these stones contained gold and silver, they subjected them to all the tortures of ancient alchemy, and the goldsmith’s crucible, the forge, and the blacksmith’s anvil, were employed in vain to elicit riches which existed only in the imagination.” With difficulty Silliman and Kingsley managed to procure fragments of each stone that had fallen, and came away with “a considerable number of specimens.”
The crusted specimen in my collection came from the Arizona State University collection, and still holds a painted specimen number from the Nininger Collection.
|
bigbaldjoe
member
Reged: 09/21/07
Posts: 71
Loc: Bethlehem, Georgia
|
|
Zagami,
This thread could be your own Meteorite of the Day Thread.
As always, super nice piece.
|
Talstarone
Vendor (Inner Planetary Products)
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 7593
Loc: Benson, North Carolina
|
|
Quote:
Zagami,
This thread could be your own Meteorite of the Day Thread.
As always, super nice piece.
Martin,I Must Agree With Joe 100%.
I would Love to see you start a Daily Thread That Shows A Pic Of One Of You Amazing Specimens.
Add to the image the backstories you have and the fluidity with which you tell them,and it would be an Incredible Thread.
So I would suggest that everyone who would like to see Martin post a pic and story of the day from his collection, post a reply in this thread.
I think it would compliment the Rocks From Space Pics Of The Day,That Mike Most Graciously Updates For Us Every Day(Thank You Mike G.),.
Martin would you be willing to do this for us,my friend?
We would all be Very Greatful.
--------------------
Todd C.
Celestron NexStar 4SE(102mm F/13)Maksutov-Cass
Meade ETX-80AT(80mm F/5)Achro Refractor
Meade ETX-60BB(60mm F/5.8)Achro Refractor
www.innerplanetaryproducts.com
Meteorites and More....
"Outer Space at Down to Earth Prices"
|
Dick Lipke
super member
Reged: 02/20/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Marine City,Mich.
|
|
It is a great idea.Collectors like myself will never be able to hold a treasured speciman like you have in your possession,at least we will know what one would look like.I never realized the variety available out there.
--------------------
LX90 8",Cornado Max 40,Miyauchi 20x100 Bino's,and way to many eyepieces and filters,
Thousand Oaks 8" Ha filter
Edited by Dick Lipke (09/13/08 07:42 AM)
|
meteorite
Vendor (meteorites)
Reged: 01/28/06
Posts: 201
|
|
Hi Martin,
Always a pleasure to see your pictures and descriptions.
I am more than a little perturbed aobut a trend I see in the meteorite collecting field. It seems to me that many historic specimens are being broken down into increasinglly msaller pieces. Many are so small they are approaching "speck" and "dust" status.
Yes, I am aware that the owner of a meteorite has a right to do whatever they wish with their property but I really hate seeing these fine pieces broken down to almost nothing.
As someone with a rather extensive collection of historic and otherwise rare specimens, do you have any thoughts on this?
-Walter
--------------------
GSO 10 inch Dob
|
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
New Concord, Ohio
L6 Chondrite
Fell: May 1, 1860
Sixty-one years before John Glenn, the first American to orbit the earth, was born, a meteorite fell in the county of his birth. The stone later named New Concord, was the first of only two meteorites that fell in Ohio and whose falls were witnessed.
It is claimed that one of the stones of the New Concord fall hit and killed a colt, but the closest record I could find just indicated that one of the stones missed a horses head by three feet.
Either way, the following story is evidence that that particular May Day was a little more on the exciting side than most.
Dr. McConnell of New Concord made the following report:
On Tuesday, the first of May, at 28 minutes past twelve o'clock, the people of that vicinity were almost panic –stricken by a strange and terrible report in the heavens, which shook the houses for many miles distant.
The first report was immediately overhead and after an interval of a few seconds was followed by similar reports with such increasing rapidity that after the number of 22 were counted, they were no longer distinct, but became continuous, and died away like the roaring of distant thunder, the course of the reports being from the meridian to the southeast.
In one instance, three men working in a field, the self-possession being measurably restored from the shock of the more terrible report from above, had their attention attracted by a buzzing noise overhead, and soon observed a large body descending strike the earth at a distance of about one hundred yards. Repairing thither they found a newly-made hole in the ground, from which they extracted and irregular quadrangular stone weighting 51 pounds. This stone had buried itself two feet beneath the surface, and when obtained was quite warm.
The specimen pictured below not only has two faces rich with crust, but it also has a painted specimen number from the historic Nininger Meteorite Collection. It also has a portion of another specimen number painted on one side, but I've yet to uncover the origin of that graffiti.
|
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
Hello Todd, Walter and All,
The idea of a pic of the day did cross my mind, but I won't have the time to make a post that often. I was doing some "burst" postings early with several pics and info. These take me a while to make and I don't want them to feel more like work than fun. I hope to do one on most days, but I apologize in advance if I'm unable to make a post.
Walter, as far as your comment "I am more than a little perturbed aobut a trend I see in the meteorite collecting field. It seems to me that many historic specimens are being broken down into increasinglly msaller pieces. Many are so small they are approaching "speck" and "dust" status."
I've watched that trend with more disillusion than most.
This whole issue is more one of scale than science. In the big picture, except for the complete individuals in my collection, someone somewhere at some time broke up a historical specimen eventually providing me a sample. And often the meteorite dealers would prefer a single large sale than a mind-numbing number of small sales over years in order to dispose (they read: profit) the material upon which they make their living.
On the other side, there is a plethora of avenues for collectors to acquire material meaning two things. First, there is a high degree of competition so dealers are quick to serve the collector's needs to make the sale with the need being more along the lines of an affordable sized specimen rather than one that meets the requirements of a collection. The second thing is that the paradigm of a meteorite dealer and its accompanying marketing and selling dogma has changed drastically allowing anyone to deal in meteorites on a global scale. Both of these issues are amplified by the increase in meteorite collectors.
I routinely get requests for just a speck or two of many of my historical specimens just so the meteorite name can be entered in their collection catalog. I know how powerful that lure can be, but I have to look generations ahead now with my actions. On more than a few occasions, when there is a global inventory of material (as has happened with Ensisheim, Lowitz, and Stannern for example), I've discovered that I have something somewhat unusual given the current status of the material. With Ensisheim, my piece is in the 20 largest in size in the world (about 14th at last measure), and Lowitz and Stannern, which in my collection are complete individuals, are very rare now because so many of the individuals of this fall have been sliced.
This entire situation is actually, in my opinion anyway, much worse than most know. Behind the scenes, there is an complex distribution network for new material among museums and collectors. Meteorites that I believe never should have been sliced up or even cut at all for that matter were chopped to pieces including Peekskill, Worden, Claxton, Nobelsville, Independence, Tres Castillos among many others recent ones. And in the case of the latter three, they were oriented individuals. But again that's just my opinion.
Anyway, I don't see the situation getting any better. Unlike art, the value of a meteorite is rarely tied to its completeness. Although much of meteorite science takes place at the molecular level, the intellectual picture these snapshots of cosmic geology offer us is lost anytime a piece is reduced in size.
Other thoughts?
|
bigbaldjoe
member
Reged: 09/21/07
Posts: 71
Loc: Bethlehem, Georgia
|
|
First and foremost Zagami, NEVER EVER feel bad if you don't post a picture and a story every day. I'm just glad that someone with SOOOOO much knowledge and passion has a relatively simple way to get that information across to me, a rank newbie.
As to the cutting of meteorites, I have mixed opinions. At first I am completely disheartened to think of these rocks being completely broken down and the ability to see them in the whole splendor is gone forever. On the other hand I am a poor teacher with a family and if micro-mounts were not available, the chance of me owning several meteorites would be quite diminished. However the fact that meteorite collecting is increasing exponentially right now makes me look to the future with hope. Logic would dictate that the more people interested in this field would mean that there are more people looking for meteorites which would drastically increase the number of specimens that are out there. Unfortunately that is a double edged sword because I don't want the pressure of a larger market convincing people that they should cut up historic/famous specimens.
Joe
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14687
Loc: Hurricane Alley
|
|
Interesting discussion developing here. I'd like to throw in my two pesos on the subject because it's something I have done a lot of thinking about.
As someone who sells meteorites to fund their own personal collection, I do not like the idea of breaking up a historical, extremely rare, or scientifically-interesting specimen to make a profit. However, I have broken up or cut down UNWA and other more common NWA finds that have large TKW's like NWA 869, NWA 4293 (and it's similar cousins), etc. The same goes for large iron falls like Campo.
However, I also take into account aesthetics and other intangibles. For example, I would never advocate cutting or breaking up an oriented specimen, even a common UNWA. I have a nice oriented ~150 gram UNWA stone with remnant fusion crust. I'd love to magically see the inside of it and know what exact classification it is. But it's so perfect and attractive in appearance (IMO), that I could never bear to cut off a slice or even file a window into it. It's fine just how it is - in it's original state.
I occasionally get "scraps" of various rare types and uncommon falls - like Moss. I got some crumbs of it from a trustworthy IMCA source several months ago. It was about 100mg of specks and tiny crumbs - not dust or "sand", but a little bigger. I imagine they flaked off a larger specimen or someone tried to make a slice of this friable meteorite and the crumbs were the waste. At any rate, if someone hadn't done this, there would be about 10 fewer owners of Moss micromounts worldwide, including myself. So I have mixed feelings about it. On eBay, I am seeing hammers, rare falls, exotic types, and the like being sold for less than the cost of a gallon of gas. Zagami, Nakhla, Shergotty, Claxton, and other much more obscure rare falls are commonly available from reliable dealers. Right now, there is beautiful Imilac available on eBay in surprising quantity - of course, the asking price is quite high.
Which brings to mind pallasites...
IMO, Pallasites are best enjoyed when sliced, either in thick slabs or thin translucent slices. A full Glorieta or Imilac individual has it's own understated beauty, but what a heaven it is to behold when properly sliced, etched and displayed. Again, if a particular pallasite is historical or very rare in TKW, then I wouldn't endorse cutting it up.
I think David has done a great job of choosing proper specimens for his sphere making, and the final products are very beautiful. In the case of his spheres, I think it's a good thing that does not detract at all from the overall meteorite supply.
Regards and clear skies,
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
|
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
and speaking of pallasites...
The Krasnojarsk Pallasite
South of the Russian town of Krasnojarsk, Yakov Medvedev, a blacksmith from the village of Ubeisk discovered a 700kg mass of iron in 1749. Twenty-three years later, in 1772, Peter Simon Pallas was introduced to the unusual metal rock while traveling through a remote area of Siberia on behalf of czarina Catharina.
For study, he had the mass moved to St. Petersburg. Interestingly, the Tartars who lived in the area believed it had fallen from the sky.
The Krasnojarsk iron, or Pallas iron as it is often called, was partially covered with black fusion crust, and had the distinct look of olivine crystals in a metal matrix that we associate with pallasites.
The Krasnojarsk pallasite, as it is now called, was the first pallasite and named after Pallas. It was also the first meteoritic iron to be etched with acid bringing out the pattern of iron crystallization we call the Widmanstätten Pattern.
However, the first etching took place by G. Thomson, an English geologist, when he was living in Naples, Italy. Thomson used acid to remove some rust on his hand sample of Krasnojarsk. He noticed the pattern in the iron, but did not publish his finding right away. And when he did, the article was not in English, but in French. Then he died.
The Austrian printer and scientist Count Alois von Beckh Widmanstätten also discovered the pattern, but after Thomson. But Widmanstätten did publish his observations, and thusly the pattern is now named after him, although there is a minor movement in the meteorite community to rename the pattern in honor of Thomson.
The main mass of Krasnojarsk is in Moscow and weighs in at 515kg.
This specimen of Krasnojarsk in my collection shows both polished matrix we know and love about pallasites, as well as some unprepared internal and external faces.
|
dr_hemlock2
newbie
Reged: 09/11/08
Posts: 4
|
|
these meteories and the stories behind them are so interesting that yes making smaller samples of the larger species is often a matter of choice and or profitability or even scientific study. without the smaller pieces many would not be able to collect (at first) and start studying these remarkable relics from our universes past or the history of it. i for one thank all of you for turning me onto this great world of science and collecting. now i have a few specimons and i am so excited and i think excitment is what we need now at lest in these times.
doc
--------------------
"Get er' Done"
|
csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28625
Loc: montana
|
|
dr_hemlock2
Allow me to Welcome you to Cloudy Nights, & especially our Space Rocks Forum! Very glad to have you join us; this forum is most adicting, as those that read the threads, seem to mysteriously start collecting meteorites! 
If we can be of assistance, just let us know.
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
|
zagami
super member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 168
Loc: The Big Sky
|
|
Forest City, Iowa
H5 Chondrite
Fell: May 2, 1890
This excerpt about the fall of the Forest City meteorite is from a July 1929 issue of the Iowa Recorder.
Quote:
Late in the afternoon of May 2, 1890, people in northern Iowa were startled by the appearance of a great fireball in the west which eclipsed for a moment the sunlight of an almost cloudless sky. Traveling at incredible speed from the southwest the meteor roared across the sky sputtering and throwing off a long train of sparks. The dazzling head, likened to the moon in size, left a heavy line of black smoke in its wake, distinctly marking the meteor's course through the heavens. The story of the Forest City meteor, as it was named, it told by Ben Hur Wilson in a recent number of "The Palimpsest," published by the State Historical Society of Iowa at Iowa City.
Few meteors have been more widely observed in their passage, perhaps on account of the time of day and the ideal weather conditions existing at the time. Authentic reports came from Des Moines, Mason City, Fort Dodge, Emmetsburg, Algona, Ruthven, Humboldt, Britt, Garner, Grinnell, Sioux City, and points outside of Iowa. For many miles around Winnebago county, the noise sounded like heavy cannonading accompanied by a hissing and a tremor which caused people to rush from their houses to inquire the cause.
The meteor descended at an angle variously judged to incline from 50 degrees to 55 degrees with the horizon, and to the eye its course was apparently from the southwest to the northeast. The final explosion occurred over Winnebago county about eleven miles northwest of Forest City.
An area some three or four miles in length ad from one and one-half to two miles in width was showered with meteorites. Although this meteoric field was adjacent to the town of Thompson, it was readily accessible from Forest City, the county seat. Inasmuch as most of the publicity emanated from the latter place, the meteor became known as the Forest City meteor, though Thompson would have been a more accurate geographical designation.
Of the larger meteorites recovered from this field, two were found weighing approximately four pounds each, one of ten pounds, another sixty-six, and the largest eighty-one pounds. Several hundred smaller pieces ranged in weight from less than an ounce to almost a pound.
Newspapers throughout the surrounding country carried reports of the meteor and scientists became interested at once in recovering fragments for museums. Within a day or two after the appearance of the meteor, Hans Matterson brought a few broken fragments to Forest City and left them on display at a local hardware store.
Matterson reported that a neighbor Peter Hoagland, has found a stone "as large as a water-bucket." About this time Horace V. Winchell, assistant State Geologist representing the University of Minnesota, arrived in Forest City. He went directly to the Hoagland farm and tried to purchase the stone. Before terms could be agreed upon a second purchaser arrived. Bidding became spirited but Winchell persisted, and finally purchased the fragment for more than a hundred dollars.
Having paid Hoagland in cash. Winchell placed the meteorite in the back of his buggy and drove back to town. At Forest City he packed the stone in a strong box, took it to the express office, and consigned it to Minneapolis.
Meanwhile his competitor, learning that the stone had not fallen on Hoagland's land but across the road, secured a writ of replevin in the name of the owner of the land on which the stone had fallen. Armed with his writ, the sheriff went to the express office and took possession of the box.
The district court in Winnebago county decided that the stone belongs to the owner of the land when it had fallen. Hoagland, therefore was compelled to surrender the money he had received. The case was appealed to the Supreme Court of Iowa but before this tribunal had rendered a decision the University of Minnesota had secured the meteorite through a second writ or replevin. In October 1892, the Supreme Court of Iowa sustained the finding of the lower court, and suit was brought against the University of Minnesota on its replevin bond. The jury assessed the value of the meteorite at nearly five times the original value fixed by the court, which sum was cheerfully paid, and the stone was deposited in the museum of the University where it has remained to this day.
This complete individual from my collection has dual specimen numbers. The 49.42 number is from the Nininger Collection, and the M55.6 number is from the Monnig Collection at TCU.
|
bigbaldjoe
member
Reged: 09/21/07
Posts: 71
Loc: Bethlehem, Georgia
|
|
As always, yet again, WOO-HOO! A great piece and a Great Story.
Let's call this thread  "Uncle Zagami's Magical Rock Story Hour" !
|
BobaDebt
member
Reged: 08/22/08
Posts: 23
|
|
Quote:
I don't want the pressure of a larger market convincing people that they should cut up historic/famous specimens.
Joe
Well the unfortunate truth is that people are willing to spend more per gram for a smaller piece.
I listed this beautiful 66 gram slice of Zag on ebay with a modest reserve of $198 ($3 per gram). It got bid up to about $38
I listed a couple smaller pieces, less then 10 grams, and they sold for more then $3 per gram.
I also have some fantastic slices of NWA 2828 that I just can't sell. This material is very light and my slices are very large for their respective gram weight, it's just that people don't have the money to spend for the larger pieces.
I'm not a dealer. I buy material, process it in a way that I can get a 50mm sphere for my collection and then I sell the rest as a way to recoup some of my investment.
I can already tell that I may have to dissect some of these large beautiful slices in order to sell them to perpetuate my collection. Selling meteorites this way is a very time consuming process.
I'm just glad that I am a very patient collector 
|
|
2 registered and 1 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Tom Trusock, csa/montana
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 2112
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 
