WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Hey yall!
Sorry ive been away. AT&T somehow cut our lines down the road somewhere and we lost all phones and dsl until today.
The guy was in the backyard looking for the phone line and came back around front to ask if I knew there was a big ole black widow sitting in a web right where he needed to be. 
I told him my story of finding 5 or 6 (6 or 7 now) and showed him the remains of three in a bug jar.
Okay, so we started on the obs Sunday.
After all the wondering I did about which size to choose, we settled on the 11x6 that we had plans for since neither one of us knew anything about carpentry.
I couldnt even put the boys powered Jeep thingie together without a small pile of left over parts that should not have been, and a dozen bandaids.
We wanted to go bigger, but kept running into trouble with local lumber outlets not having bigger lengths of wood.
They said 'you can do it, we can help', but I think they were secretly laughing at me and snickering on a security monitor somewhere in the back. 
So.
I showed you all our little staked out square I think...
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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We then set our posts about 3ft. deep, put nails in them about 4 inches from the bottom to give the concrete something to grab onto, and concreted them into the ground, making sure they stayed level and even.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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...all of them set and level...
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 8677
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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You are off to a great start. Keep the photos and commentary coming.
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There are no winners in war, only bigger losers.
Jim
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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...then we had from 6:30 in the morning to 6 at night at the Cinncinnatti Childrens Hospital monday and couldnt do anything all day (4 finger snaps, 2 sets of labs, a GNT with Diff that required dye injected into the top of the hand, CT scan, Liver, kidney and Prograf panels, and a physical all while neither child could eat all day long-phew!)
So today we started again and man have things changed.
We made sure everything was level, that from corner to corner we were 16'3", and all posts were straight and true.
Today when we start again everything has become off somehow, now that the concrete is hard and set.
Were a half inch off on the North wall now, instead of 11'6" on the south side (like we made sure of!) we are now about 11' 7 inches.
From corner to corner we are now 16' 4".
What happened?! Everything was perfect and then today its all out of whack!
Needless to say, we did the best we could.
Ive barely operated a hammer before we did the fence so carpentry is not my strong suit, but dang, I didnt think it could be this off!
Did the ground settle, boards shrink, warp?
I dont understand it.
Anyway...since theres not much we can do about it now, we kept going.
Worst case scenario we think the floor might be a little off, but since my pier and concrete slab for my dob will be seperate and isolated, as long as they are right well be okay. Right?
So today we attached the 2x8's except they didnt sit like the plans said they would.
We started cutting the 2x8x12's down to 11'x3" when we noticed after four cuts they were not lining up perfectly like they were the other day! 
So what we did was take thge 2x8x12 to the posts, make them level, and then cut them to fit. Whats wrong with that?
I dont know how it went all bad and hesitated to show our shortcomings here out of embarrassment.
So I think at this point were kinda stuck moving forward with whats already been done, or declare that portion of the yard a hazard and just turn the dob into a big beer cooler.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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That dog thinks hes gotta be in every shot!
This one has no dog in the background, but shows what looks like the posts and the 2x8's lining up pretty well.
Any ideas what went wrong? Will it really matter?
Can whatever minor problems spring up be fixed with a shim or something? Create one weird sitting wall on that side or something?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 8677
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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Check your measurements cross corner to check for square. Then check the level of the 2x8's. You can fudge things a little to get back in square, but level needs to be.
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There are no winners in war, only bigger losers.
Jim
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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Don't get discouraged! You are coming along just great. And keep the pictures coming!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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Measuring from corner to corner you can still be out of square,,, been there done that.
If you can strip the frame off and notch the posts you might be able to recover.
I'd still notch the posts and use them to support the framework any way, there will be a lot of weight on the frame using just nails to support it all and notch it now would save work later.
I would also be setting some more posts on the ends where there are none, you wan this to be around a long time without it sagging 'eh?
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1839
Loc: AR
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I have had a few "do-overs" on mine also due to my friend and frequent observing companion (who is also an AIA architect) noticing and offering good advice. Don't get too discouraged. Sketch out everything in advance.
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Quote:
Measuring from corner to corner you can still be out of square,
The trick is to make sure you have the SAME measurement corner to corner 
Quote:
I'd still notch the posts and use them to support the framework any way, there will be a lot of weight on the frame using just nails to support it
The posts are flush with the tops of the 2x8 band boards. the walls are ridgid when they are plywooded. The posts will bear the weight of the structure. I'm sure Michael will be using lag bolts/screws as well.
If you're a little out of square it's not the end of the world by any means. The really important thing is that the 2 walls that carry the rollers are paralell. You need to have the same measurement at both ends of the building. Make sure the wall plates are cut the same and you'll have no worries there either.
It's also more critical that the support posts (out riggers) are straight with the top of the walls rather than level. If the building itself happens to be a fuzz out of level just keep it straight with the walls. We build on slabs often that aren't level. The roof will function perfectly.
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Quote:
If you can strip the frame off and notch the posts you might be able to recover.
I'd still notch the posts and use them to support the framework any way, there will be a lot of weight on the frame using just nails to support it all and notch it now would save work later.
What do you mean by 'notch'?
Quote:
I would also be setting some more posts on the ends where there are none, you wan this to be around a long time without it sagging 'eh?
I wondered about that myself. The plans did not call for another post anywhere so we assumed it would be okay.
Quote:
The posts are flush with the tops of the 2x8 band boards. the walls are ridgid when they are plywooded. The posts will bear the weight of the structure. I'm sure Michael will be using lag bolts/screws as well.
Well...one is not flush with the 2x8. I dont know how it happened. Everything was perfect and we decided to stop since it all lined up then come back.
When we came back yesterday, everything seemed a little bit off.
Do you think we could just cut off the little bit above the 2x8 on the one post and be okay?
I hesitated to cut it off because on sunday it was all perfect and I was worried that it might throw the whole floor off now.
Heres a shot.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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In the pic above you can see the yellow tamping bar thingie, about where its at, in the middle of that 2x8 is where we thought about dropping another post in.
Heres a better shot of that post.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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You'll need to cut that down unless the 2x8 needs lifted up to be straight.
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3528
Loc: bellevue ne.
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If your opposite sides are identical in length....then your diagonals will be dead even if you are dead square. You can also use the 3'x4'=5' rule to square it. But the sides must be absolutely straight and not bowed in or out.  Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 8677
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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Something they forgot to tell you is to also check the crown( Curve) of the 2x8's so they are in the same direction . The rear 2x8 looks to curve like a saucer(Crown down) in the picture. of course it could just be the way the picture is taken. For a deck plate , i usually like to put the crown up. all the crowns should go the same direction, and can be established by sighting down the board before installation. Mark them with and 'X' , make the job easier.
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There are no winners in war, only bigger losers.
Jim
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3297
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Ok, well lets keep in mind there will be some floor joists going in to support the deck, so when the deck goes on, if the floor boards are allowed to overhang the outside edge of the frame, they will be able to be trimmed in order to achieve a square cornered square all around.
That said, and I know I'm a bit late on the uptake, but perhaps the next guy might be able to use the information in this picture before they start to build on a slope.
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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DeanS
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 954
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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Your off to a good start. Remember that the mark of a good craftsman is not IF you make a mistake, but how well you recover from it and make it look like it was done that way on purpose 
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AP1200GTO AP900GTO
TOA-150 Tak E160
C9.25 Tak FS60C
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
8" LX200GPS
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks yall.
Despite being off here and there, the wife believes we can overcome whatever went wrong.
I gotta put my faith in her. Shes never let me down yet.
I anchored the 2x8's with 4" lag screws and am ready to start on a hole, but im stuck trying to figure out what goes where.
I want a concreted pier for down the road and I want a concrete square to set the dob on. I know I should have went bigger but 12" boards seem to be all I can have here in corn-pole ville.
Scott showed a pic of a bricked in concrete square staggered from the concreted pier area, neither was dead in the middle.
I took a pic and want to see what people think about the lay out idea.
I thought about making my concrete square for the dob 25 1/2", and the pier thingie 12-14".
In this pic were standing at the south wall (which will be lower) with the dob just inside to the right, and the pier back towards the left.
The squares arent straight or anything, just some scrap wood I put together to get an idea of what the setting might look like.
What do ya think? Too close?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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It looks to me that your Dob square is too close to what will be the wall. 
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Carol, do you think its still too close with that being the south wall that drops down to 3'?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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Measure the length of your scope that would be at the angle of the drop-down. Take into consideration of upgrading to a larger size, also 
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6590
Loc: Frederick Maryland
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Take a couple of 2x4's and screw then upright to the Bam Boards aboiut 5-6 foot apart and grab an old blanket and staple it to the 2x'4... 3 foot up from where your floor will be.. Then grab a card table and place it where you think the Dob should be placed then set to dob on the table (carefully) get a ladder and play with the scope to see how a 3" wall will work.. you can easily pull the blanket off the 2x4's and reset it at 4 foot etc...
IF your neighbors see you doing this ...well..enough said
Bob G.
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CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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To notch the post is to make a 1-1/2" cut both across and vertically the width and length of the post so the 2x8 rests on the post itself not hanging by the nails,
Easy to do with your new saw
Then nail or thru bolt it to the posts.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1839
Loc: AR
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I made mine 16x16 feet in order to have walls and roof at reasonable height and still be able to see over them to a reasonably low angle with a Dob. It also leaves room for a 2x4 foot table and a couple of chairs and shelves. IMO you will wish you had made it larger. It's not too late to enlarge at this point. All our local lumber yards carry 16 foot lumber, a couple even have 24 footers. Try another lumber dealer.
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3528
Loc: bellevue ne.
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I'm still wondering if you aren't short changing yourself on that 6' dimension. I'd re think it. Now is the time as altering will be much easier. It is going to be tight in there once the thickness of the walls is taken into account. You are already seeing the problems beginning to arise. The extra cost is really just peanuts. You save a buck only once but the mistake will haunt you forever!  Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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Mel M
member
Reged: 05/04/08
Posts: 50
Loc: southern Oregon
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It must be like the shops and garages we build. We seldom say we have too much room.
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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I'm lost trying to figure out how you're doing a concrete "Pad" UNDER the deck of the observatory...
Heres a thought... Pour the pad for the Dob BIGGER... Like about 1/4 the observatory (That whole corner)... When you lay your joists in place, you can place those "Dec-Blocks" under the joists all over that area to remove any flex in the deck. That should be plenty for the Dob...
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks yall.
Im kinda stuck.
After talking with a friend about it he said that in our area, heavily light polluted Kentucky, you cant have both imaging that requires high walls, and dob viewing that needs low walls, from one structure. If I build my walls low enough for a dob, I can forget about good imaging when the time comes. If I build the walls high enough for imaging, dob viewing will be hard to do in the box ive created.
*sigh. 
He suggested since i dont own anything but a dob for now, make a concrete box in the middle, like 2'x2', and just set my dob on it for now, and then one day when Im ready to start imaging, buy me a steel pier and anchor it to that same concrete box.
The wife thinks we should partition off a section of this area already boxed in, like on the North end, and make it a warm room, and scoot the concrete box/pad thingie a little closer to the south wall, since it will drop down anyway.
She also said why not go get those floating foundation blocks I first mentioned and make me a little dob deck right off the south side of this obs with a little ramp i can just wheel my dob over to, that way i could leave the dob outside in the obs and just wheel it over when I wanted to.
Of course, she still thinks we ought to use that area that the roof will roll-off on top of that will just be sitting there unused, and make that area my warm room.
Lots of ideas happening now and I dont know which way to go.
On top of all this, the pool motor died and i had to go buy another one yesterday!
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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Quote:
Of course, she still thinks we ought to use that area that the roof will roll-off on top of that will just be sitting there unused, and make that area my warm room.
The interior would be totally unprotected when the roof is closed.
If you go with higher walls for imaging, the dob would have to be put on a higher platform; making a stepstool/ladder a necessity.
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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I'm planning hanging plants and a Hammock off my observatory... Use the area nicely.
I was going to originally suggest an outside pad for the Dob, but it seemed like you really wanted the Dob in the observatory... I do like the idea of a 2 foot square monolith in the center of the observatory.. Use that for the Dob. You can have it about 2 feet taller than the floor, to give your dob height... Build a Pad for it when you get your other scope and mount...
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1839
Loc: AR
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I have found that 24 inch square pads are just barely big enough for a 16-inch Dob. If I had a do-over on my outdoor pads I would make them 28 inches square, so nothing is right on the edge.
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Quote:
I'm planning hanging plants and a Hammock off my observatory... Use the area nicely.
Hi Jeff. The hammock theory has been proven effective
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Mornin, Yall.
After getting a small break in the clouds we went back out to examine our work and rethink our situation.
The wife doesnt think Ill be comfortable in what weve built.
She knows im pretty clumsy, and making things tight for me could be problematic, or at the worst expensive and damaging.
She thinks we can start where the north side post-box ends and keep going north with more posts, like put them where the next 2x8 floor joist would go and just keep going as much as we want. Then we could just make our roof as long as weve built and boom, its done.
BYO makes a 15'x6" observatory, and since im not as smart as her, I cant see the problem in turning a started 11x6, into a 15x6.
Weve found a lumber place downtown called Lyon's Lumber that says they carry all sizes and whatever the 'you can do it, we can help' people stock, they stock it and much more since lumber is all they do.
Hmm...
were having all sorts of crazy ideas about how we could do both dob viewing and imaging from the same place, like I took my CatsPerch Pro chair and moved it as high as I could comfortably sit and was at least a foot or two above my focuser on the dob, showing us that it could be raised and allow me to still sit and view.
What if we made it bigger, like the 15'x6" design, and made a raised concrete platform for my dob, but also raised a concrete base around it so Im not standing on a stool?
Why couldnt I do that? We measured the CatsPerch Pro chair opened up and it was about 3'x3".
These are just some of the thoughts were having which is slowing down our build. Everything was cut and dry until we saw it start coming together, and suddenly everything changed.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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RobVG
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 739
Loc: Seattle Washington
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Hi Michael
Could you clear something up for me, Ive been a little confused.
When you say 11'x6' and 15'x6' do you mean 11x11 and 15x15 with 6' high walls?
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C11 SGT(XLT)CG-5
Observatory (page 5)
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Hiya, Rob.
Naw, It means 11'x6" all the way around like a box, or the same for 15'x6".
Its a box thats 11x6, or 15x6 on all sides.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Oh, and the walls are 6' if you want them to be.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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Quote:
Hiya, Rob.
Naw, It means 11'x6" all the way around like a box, or the same for 15'x6".
Its a box thats 11x6, or 15x6 on all sides.
Probably better to say 11'6'' square; it looks like you are building an 11' by 6" wide Observatory 
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Doh! 
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Bowmoreman
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 3996
Loc: Bolton, MA
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I'm going to weigh in on some random points:
1) you CAN easily have a Dob and a pier mounted EQ for AP in same observatory. Check out the threads on Erika and Paul Rix's observatory. (Scott built it for them). You'll probably want the "drop down" south facing wall to make it optimal
2) You can have the warm room in the area the roof rolls over, without leaving it exposed when the roof is closed. It basically requires a "sub ceiling" for the warm room that the roof rolls over. That is how Scott built mine.
3)I'd think about a 15'6 x 11'6 with the warm room being 5'6 x 11'6 and on the NORTH side, with the roof rolling back/over the warm room - that leaves you with 11'6 x 11'6 for the Dob and the Pier - that should easily be big enough
(heck my obs part is only 6'x 9'6" and that is workable for my EQ standalone)
You'll want em offset, with the dob far enough from the dropdown south wall to be able to get to your useable horizon
Just my thoughts.
clear enough skies
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Dave
Imaging: MI-250+ADM/SBS/Optec Libra: C11Hyperstar,TMB80SS
Visual: XT10i RTP
TV: 31T5,22T4,17T4,12T4,13Ethos,8Ethos;2x Powermate,Paracorr, 1.6X Antares, Hyperion8-24Zoom
Cameras: Mallincam Color Hyper Plus, QHY8
Guider: SBIG STV eFinder
Key Add-ons: Gerbings Heated clothes, WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO#90), Speco 9"Monitor
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Joel
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/08/04
Posts: 2586
Loc: Merrimack, NH
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I was a little confused there about the dimensions too. I have a BYO 11'6" X 15'6" and it's very roomy. 6' X 11'6" is a warm room and the rest observatory. I would always build as big as you can keeping in mind your budget or space or any other requirements such as HOA or the like. Building it yourself makes building bigger cheaper too and you may look at the cost of materials as not that much compared to what you get in the end.
I don't have a dob, but I would think if you are using a dob in an observatory you would want it on the larger side.
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Joel
10" LX200GPS UHTC-SMT
Vixen 80EDsf
Canon unmodded 350D
QHY8
Turkey Hill Observatory
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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So Widowmaker, what stage are you at now?
This has to be about the most amusing thread in ages! Plenty of good comments, but I think we are all wondering how the dob will fit in a 6" wide room....hmmm.
Keith
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Quote:
I think we are all wondering how the dob will fit in a 6" wide room....hmmm.
Its a little tight.
Sorry yall. Its been raining for two days now and I got stuck trying to figure out if I wanted bigger before it was too late.
Were going bigger. I just got back from the Lumber company with more 4x6's, 2x8's, and the little bracket thingies to set the 2x8 (floor joists?) into.
The wife measured off 6 more feet from the North end posts already set in concrete and we plan on getting close with more posts and just butting the 2x8's up against the 2x8 box already made.
We keep standing there staring at it wondering just how big we could go. Now that were not hampered by the 'you can do it, we can help' people and their choices in lumber, the sky (er, the neighbors yard) is the limit.
BYO has a pic of a obs with a built-on-the-side warm room here on their page that looks awesome.
Choices, choices. Its suppose to stop raining for tommorrow ONLY, and I plan on getting started again.
I figure if we add 5-6 more feet I can sit my dob towards the middle and a pier and not be worried about my 12 1/2" feet kicking everything over. Im a major klutz. 
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Quote:
You can have the warm room in the area the roof rolls over, without leaving it exposed when the roof is closed. It basically requires a "sub ceiling" for the warm room that the roof rolls over. That is how Scott built mine.
Thanks, Dave. I wish I had that little drawing my wife made, 'cos I bet thats the same idea she came up with.
Itll just be wasted space, ya know?
I planned on parking my new (new for me) riding mower there or something like that, Im just glad the wife is understanding enough to help me plan for the future and wont be dissapointed If I never buy imaging stuff.
$2000 (at least) for a good mount, $4-800.00 good camera, wedge, Steel pier, and all that without having even bought the scope yet?! Wow...
I think I could buy a dob double the size of my Z12 for what all that will cost me.
Whos to say i wouldnt be happier with that?
Right now, im planning on doing astroimaging one day, and its nice to have the place as an option If I do.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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DeanS
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 954
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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I'll be around this weekend if you do want to look. My actual observing room is 11.5' x 11.5' just like yours. And my warm room is 11.5' x 5.5' which is a bit small for my set up that includes storage cabinets and 3 computers.
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AP1200GTO AP900GTO
TOA-150 Tak E160
C9.25 Tak FS60C
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
8" LX200GPS
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3528
Loc: bellevue ne.
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I'm glad to see that you've come to your senses! You'll be so glad you did you'll just kick yourself in the "end"....get it?? Now you'll be able to do what you want and when you want without a bunch of compromising. Good luck going forward. Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Ok.
We got more done today.
We added more posts and made our 11'x6" square into a 16'6"x11'6" rectangle. After we got smart and followed Scott's directions, setting the posts became alot easier.
The only hard part is cutting the tops off thanks to my Craftsman Sawsall.
We also dug a 30x30" square for my dob, dug down a foot and a half, and bored out four holes in each corner another 28"'s.
Heres some shots.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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my big ole hole that I have no idea how much cement it will take to fill!
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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And the final shot showing where we stopped once it started sprinkling. My sawsall only let me cut through two posts before I couldnt take it anymore.
The majority of time was spent building and leveling our box. Right now its almost a foot above my floor line.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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You can use LESS concrete by getting some "Filler"... You can use old Cinder-Blocks... Just set a few of them in there, and stack so the holes in them line up... Then fill as normal.
And with some easy calculations, you can figure the amount you'll need... Go to the Sacrete site. They have the calculator for it. Just figure each ROUND hole first, then the square, and add them up.
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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cnstarz
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/22/07
Posts: 549
Loc: Kentucky, USA
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Very nice, amazing progress so far, interesting touch with the post holes in the pier base. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, thanks for sharing. 
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Matt
Apogee 50mm BB scope
ETX-60 BB
Meade 70-az
5" DIY Newt (wip)
C6-N on CG-4 GEM
Gallery
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Just had a thought.. How deep is your "Frost line"?
18" deep monolith with 4 "pylons" may sound good, but the main square is only 18"... If the ground heaves under that, the Pylons will do nothing for it.. They may even crack off. You'd almost be better off with a SINGLE hole of perhaps 18" in the CENTER would probably be a better deal...
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks alot, Matt. I appreciate it.
Jeff, do you think adding another 2' hole right in the middle will help, or should I try to dig the main hole down further?
When the four corner holes fill up, the hole square will be 30x30, i guess I was assuming that a cement block that big, reinforced with rebar rods like birthday candles lining the middle would cover me.
You disagree?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Digital Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 1285
Loc: Manteno
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I agree with Neo.
Your footing really should be in the ground, not on it.
In my area, the frost line is about 48". Anything above the frost line has the potential to heave. Check with a local contractor about the depth of the frost line in your area.
You certainly don't want to finish your observatory and then come out next spring to find the pier leaning against the floor!
Sure it's a pain to dig the hole now, but it would be a much bigger pain to have to do it later! Don't forget it always takes less time to do it right than it does to do it over!
Your project looks very good so far!
Don
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Also, what if I left the box? It will be hidden by the floor and deck bottom, but will it do anything to help protect my cement block?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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If you paint the wood to protect it from rotting, you can leave it.... No problems...
As for the monolith, you could perhaps dig "Slopes" towards the center (with a central hole as well)... At least it's not a FLAT bottom, and any possible freeze lift would be harder, as the block would have a tapered bottom.
Make sense?
I understand the reason you thought like you did was to avoid using MUCH more concrete... Just trying to stop any issues before you build.
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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RobVG
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 739
Loc: Seattle Washington
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Quote:
In my area, the frost line is about 48".
Good lord!
Where the heck is Manteno? 
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C11 SGT(XLT)CG-5
Observatory (page 5)
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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Hey WidowMaker...Looking good.
Are you going to nail your floor joists between your outer 2x8 framing? And you will add joist hangers as well I take it?
Keith
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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Manteno appears to be in Illinois at 41 deg. 15' north. I too am surprised that the frost line is 48". But who knows, could be. Here it's about an inch!!
Keith
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payner
sage
Reged: 03/22/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Bluegrass Region, Kentucky
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Quote:
Just had a thought.. How deep is your "Frost line"?
18" deep monolith with 4 "pylons" may sound good, but the main square is only 18"... If the ground heaves under that, the Pylons will do nothing for it.. They may even crack off. You'd almost be better off with a SINGLE hole of perhaps 18" in the CENTER would probably be a better deal...
Hello WidowMaker: The frost line in Kentucky is 7 inches, except in the mountains where it is 8 inches.
Your project is looking good.
Randy
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Santel MK91 Deluxe Rumak
Takahashi FS-128
Takahashi FS-152
Takahashi TSC-225
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Digital Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 1285
Loc: Manteno
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Manteno is indeed in Illinois at about latitude 41° - south of Chicago and north of Kankakee.
I think the 'official' frost line in this area is 42", but I've seen depth ranges between 40-50" quoted. My neighbor had a fence installed earlier this year and code required the post holes to have a minimum depth of 42".
The construction people I spoke with recommended 48" depth for the footing.
Don
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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WM
Stay away from pointy footings or any footing that tapers to a small area. The weight and time will want to sink it into the ground or want to squeeze it out like zit.
I would still dig it deeper and use the auger to loosen the soil up prior to removing it.
What you show is a lot of concrete above grade with no side support and it would be begging gravity to do its thing.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks alot everyone for the help and ideas.
Quote:
Are you going to nail your floor joists between your outer 2x8 framing? And you will add joist hangers as well I take it?
All the 2x8's that go under the floor ( called floor joists?) will be in these little brackets things that attach to the 2x8 frame and to the 2x8 floor boards. Is that what youre calling a joist hanger?
Here's exactly what I got.
Quote:
The frost line in Kentucky is 7 inches, except in the mountains where it is 8 inches
Randy, where did you get that info from? Is this what youve learned, or did a builder or someone like that tell ya?
I cant seem to find anything that says that anywhere.
I just assumed that 24" was the safe spot.
Think it could be different in Frankfort?
Quote:
Stay away from pointy footings or any footing that tapers to a small area. The weight and time will want to sink it into the ground or want to squeeze it out like zit.
Um.
I dont guess I can sound any dumber, so what exactly is a 'footer'? Would that be my post? Or the hole i dug out for my box?
Quote:
I would still dig it deeper and use the auger to loosen the soil up prior to removing it.
What you show is a lot of concrete above grade with no side support and it would be begging gravity to do its thing.
Thanks, Manny. Just to be safe Im gonna try to brave the rain and thunder and dig my hole a little deeper.
It makes sense now that ive had some rest to have it deeper in the hole since so much will be standing up above the ground.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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Some people call the footer or footing the concrete you are going to be mixing up soon and resting your scope on after it sets up.
I do believe though that what ever you call it is a seperate piece of concrete from you'd wind up with.
When I did foundation work we always poured the footing first then came back and set the wall forms OR whatever was going be rest on the footing.
A footing is a wider resting area for the rest of the concrete to set on by providing a larger foot print, typically 2 or 3 times as wide as whats being set on it.
To me what you are building is a pier, a simple monolithic pour and a footer/footing would be concrete poured in a hole,,, for your 4x4 posts to rest on.
My largest footing I ever helped with was a 125 yard cube and then a 25 yard foundation set inside that for a small drop forge.
In my 30+ years of concrete construction, I never heard of it being called a footer till I started reading posts here.
I helped dig my first footing when I was 10 (42 years ago)and that was for my dad's concrete business and mom wanting me out of the house. Call me Gopher.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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payner
sage
Reged: 03/22/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Bluegrass Region, Kentucky
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Quote:
The frost line in Kentucky is 7 inches, except in the mountains where it is 8 inches.
Randy, where did you get that info from? Is this what youve
What you show is a lot of concrete above grade with no side support and it would be begging gravity to do its thing.
No, this would apply to Frankfort, it's not in the great white north climatologically speaking. At latitudes below about 39th parallel (Cincinnati) the frost line is ephemeral most of the "cold season" except for January and most of February when days are more or less consistently in the 40s and nights in the 20s.
I got these data from US Dept. of Commerce, National Weather Service and will attempt to attach a map of the contiguous US showing these data. You can see when one gets to central Ohio and Indiana the frost line has increased 3-fold to >20".
Randy
PS- I am correcting myself in that the mountainous region has a 14" frost line, not 8", which makes sense to me--my vision was blurry at midnight last night after a days work and drive back home for 2 hrs afterwards RP
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Santel MK91 Deluxe Rumak
Takahashi FS-128
Takahashi FS-152
Takahashi TSC-225
Edited by payner (05/11/08 11:51 AM)
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks alot, yall.
nice attachment, Payner. How can i argue with that?
I think my problem will be a massive structure sticking out of the ground alot further than its in the ground. That whole gravity thing eludes me.
I tried digging more in the rain and horrible wind but its no use. Its all massive mud and I dont think im doing any good. I dont seem to be getting anywhere.
I guess ill give up for now and take my wife for a nice lunch somewhere, that whole Mothers Day thing.
Youd think allowing her to dig in the mud with me would be reward enough, but nope. Some women require pretty things, and warm food. Go figure.
*sigh...
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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You have the perfect joist hangers.
I'm with Manny here, never heard of a footer before, and keep the bottom of the hole flat. Manny's explanation is dead on.
And with an 8" frost line, it would appear that you will be fine.
Talk to you later.
Keith
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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As for the manteno 48" line, chances are that is NOT the actual frost line, but rather the city CODE for depth below the frost line.. Up here (Further north than Manteno) in Loves park, our "Frost line" is 38 inches, but CODE tells me to dig a minimum of 6 inches PAST that.. So 44 inches is our Code depth for the frost line.
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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Jeff, that makes far more sense, doesn't it? It looks like WM should be deep enough. The other consideration is that the obs will far more than cover where the pier is, and the ground likely will not freeze that deep anyway when it is partly covered.
Keith
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DeanS
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 954
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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Michael, I bet you didn't get much done today did you??
Dang heavy rain and strong winds all day.
--------------------
AP1200GTO AP900GTO
TOA-150 Tak E160
C9.25 Tak FS60C
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
8" LX200GPS
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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Digital Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 1285
Loc: Manteno
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To comply with the forum's rules, I've removed the image.
Please use this link and my next post to see the map: Frost Depth Map
The map shows a range of <.5 to >1.25 meters for Illinois. So, in my case they actually went down further than necessary.
I guess the 'experts' who told me 48" were incorrect. But, better too much concrete than not enough!
Don
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Can you provide a link so we can see the full res image?
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Digital Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 1285
Loc: Manteno
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Here's a direct link to the map: Frost Depth Map
And here's a link to the beginning of the publication: NOAA Manual
It deals with the installation of Geodetic Bench Marks.
Don
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RobVG
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 739
Loc: Seattle Washington
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The planning department for your county should be able to tell you all local codes- including footing depth.
Ours is 18"- to the bottom of the footing.
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C11 SGT(XLT)CG-5
Observatory (page 5)
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Hey Yall.
Naw, Dean. I got nothing but muddy this morning. It rained and thundered, then got pretty and sunny. I ran out with my shovel and started digging in the mud and then got poured on 10 minutes later. Its pretty much rained all day.
I wish I could have come over lastnight to see your obs, but after working hard all day I was asleep by 9:30...only to wake up consumed with thoughts of digging at around 7ish this morning.
Don, thank you for the map.
Um.
Since i dont have enough brains to kick my way out of a wet paper bag, can you tell me what it means? 
It seems to indicate that im '.50' but what does that translate to a corn pole like me in a hole with a shovel?
Was paynor correct that I need only go down 7", or is NOAA saying different?
Im also kinda stuck on another question.
Now that I *could be done with my 30x30" dob square, what size hole should I dig for a pier?
Is there like a 14x14" or 12x12, or even 16x16" hole I should dig that would cover me for whatever comes?
I have no idea what size scope Ill get for doing astrophotography some day. Smart, eh?
All I know is that I will probaly give it a try sometime, like perhaps as a Christmas present.
Is there a sized hole I could dig that would cover me?
Say for instance, I build a 16x16" square of concrete up to the floor like my dob square. Would that pretty much cover me down the road?
I can say for certain I will not be buying a $25,000 scope to sit on it, more like a deal I found used somewhere.
Also, I may be ready to start my pour into the dob hole tommorrow, If I can get out there. Some have said I can use the 'quik-rete I have left over from the fence posts, others say use 'Portland cement'.
The quik-rete will not allow me to make a pretty smooth base to sit my dob or pier on, right? It will be chunky with rocks in it.
Cement only? It needs to be flat and smooth like my driveway, right? I was gonna dump the three or four bags of quik-rete i had left over into my dob hole, then fill the rest up with cement. See any problems with that?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Digital Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 1285
Loc: Manteno
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"It seems to indicate that im '.50'... "
The map is showing depth in meters - .50 meter is a little under 20". Do that and you should be good to go!
Good luck!
Don
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DeanS
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 954
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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Quick crete will make a smooth finish on top if you work it with a trowl while it is still wet, that is pretty much how they do sidewalks and driveways anyways.
Make your base as big as you can stand to. I would not want to go much more than 2x as high as it is wide. So if it is 4' in overall height, I'd make it 2'x 2' if you can. And as for depth, I would min 2' deep, and again half at least half the overall height in the ground.
That is how I would do it to satisfy my own concerns. Maybe it is overkill but I like to do things one time.
--------------------
AP1200GTO AP900GTO
TOA-150 Tak E160
C9.25 Tak FS60C
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
8" LX200GPS
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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astrotrf
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/07
Posts: 709
Loc: Rodeo, NM
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Quote:
I too am surprised that the frost line is 48". But who knows, could be.
Growing up on a farm in central Wisconsin, I recall that the frost depth in our area was about 6 feet. We had to replace the water line from our well to the house, and it had to be buried at 8 feet! I wouldn't want to hand-dig for a telescope pier there ...
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Terry (astrotrf)
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1839
Loc: AR
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Don't use PURE Portland cement for anything. If you thoroughly mix in about a shovelful of Portland cement per 80 lb bag of the Quickcrete it will make the Quickcrete much stronger. Anyway, the Quickcrete itself needs to be well mixed. If you pour it into the hole without mixing, it will just make a mess. You will need to put a few sticks of 1/2 inch re-bar in the Dob base (pier) also.
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1965healey
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 3135
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Here's a direct link to the map: Frost Depth Map
And here's a link to the beginning of the publication: NOAA Manual
It deals with the installation of Geodetic Bench Marks.
Don
Boy that's some light reading, generally I like to see things a bit more technically oriented. 
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Celestron Omni 150 XLT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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Cement is the glue that bonds it all together.
If you add the extra Portland to this mix, put that in your mixing device first and liquify it, otherwise it mixes in terribly and really won't be mixed in evenly.
If you use the liquified Portland as part of the water for the Quickcrete its thoroughly mixed with out any extra effort.
You might even want to rent a mixer form the helpfull hardware store of your choice to speed this process up.
A mixer is far more fun than a Goon Spoon.
Quickcrete is not really quick, as there is nothing quick about it other than all the ingredients are in one bag and needing to add water and needing to stir it all together.
One verticle rebar per corner and one horizontal per side set in from all sides at 6-8 inches will be plenty of steel to hold it together.
To set the bottom of the hole rebar, first drop in 6"s of mixed concrete, then drop in the steel and postion where you want it then cover it up with more mix, then as the level fills stick in the verticle steel in the corners where the horizontal bars are. This way there is no worry of the steel coming in contact with the dirt at the bottom of the hole, keep the steel a few inches shorter than the hole is wide and make sure the steel will fit the form at the top of the pier.
Fill to 6"s from the top and add the rest of the steel.
It does not have to be tied at the corners.
If you feel like adding more horizontal steel at the half way point or at any other level as you fill the hole, toss them in.
You should also not pour this concrete till the bottom of the hole is dry, nothing like building on mud.
Either clean the hole out till you hit dry dirt or wait till it is dry and then compact this dried mud or just use more concrete to replace it, can't go wrong with more concrete.
SO just how deep is this piers bottom going to be in realtion to how much is sticking above the ground?
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1839
Loc: AR
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Personally, I have not seen frost penetration nearly as deep as the chart predicts for my area (about 15 inches). Most winters it is less than six inches. The worst I saw was in the early 1980's with about 12 inches in shady spots.
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Good Mornin, Yall.
Thank you, Manny and everyone else for the help.
Quote:
Boy that's some light reading, generally I like to see things a bit more technically oriented.
I know it! The 'Curious George goes to the movies' book my boys have has more depth than that did.
Actually I tried reading over it slowly and carefully and got a nosebleed and a weird eye twitch.
Quote:
Fill to 6"s from the top and add the rest of the steel.
It does not have to be tied at the corners.
If you feel like adding more horizontal steel at the half way point or at any other level as you fill the hole, toss them in.
So, I dont need to make a rebar box within my box, right?
I was going to dump some concrete into my holes then put rebar into it about 2" from the ground, then stand as much rebar as i can into my main hole once its 2" (or 6" you say i think) above the ground and try to 'fil it up' with rebar.
Quote:
SO just how deep is this piers bottom going to be in realtion to how much is sticking above the ground?
I plan on doing the pier about 2' down If I can and then have it probaly three to three and a half above ground, so it will come just barely above my floor.
Its sunny and beautiful right now, Im trying to give the mud a little bit of time to get some sun since it rained all day and most of the night here before I start digging on my hole again.
um.
Does my box have to be beautiful and perfect?
I just noticed that its not exactly perfectly touching on all sides. Theres a tiny gap here and there where the wood weve bought isnt exactly straight.
Once I anchor it in and have it level, it will be good enough to form a square. Anyone see a problem with that?
I dont think theres enough of a gap for anyhting to leak out, but you can see the gap nonetheless.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Ok.
After school we went to Lowe's and got 20 pcs. of #4 43 (or 48)" rebar, 20 pcs. of 18" rebar, 19 bags of Sacrete (I was worried the van would collapse with anymore!) and Ive spent the last hour and a half digging out my hole deeper and smashing it flat and level with my tamping pad thingie thats 10x10" and pretty heavy.
Im down about 21"'s and Ive packed it so hard if you fell in it youd crack your nugget.
Now im forced to quit for the day 'cos ive got to do the Mothers Day thing with the woman that actually gave birth to me. Since my sister and I have lives, we all usually meet the day after a holiday to see each other.
Id rather work on my holes, but eating at the Outback is something I cant argue with.
Heres a pic. I wished it showed my hard work of smashing, smashing, and even more shashing down with the tamping pad thingie. I think I drove the main hole down about anothet 2" with that thing.
I also bored out my holes more with the auger to get all the extra dirt and mud that packed it in.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Digital Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 1285
Loc: Manteno
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Boy that's some light reading, generally I like to see things a bit more technically oriented.
We aim to please! 
Don
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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Include a few rebars into the post holes and have them overlap the verticle corner rebars.
Wiring the rebars into a cage is sometimes an excersise in futility , gets very hard to manage and then you have to pick this up and set it in a hole and adds very little strength, long as the rebars are very close to each other where they are supposed to be, all should be good.
Rebar 2"s from the bottom won't do much good as bottom 2"s will probably never crack off your pier, having them inset further in gives them something larger to hold onto should something crack.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3528
Loc: bellevue ne.
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With all that rebar don't forget to leave room for the concrete!! Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 15042
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Leave a couple of inches of concrete cover for all your reinforcing (any embeds really). Don't push the bars into the dirt and pour concrete around them. Rebar exposed to the moist dirt will begin to corrode, which will then wick up into the concrete, further corroding reinforcing, making the steel swell and crack the concrete, etc. It might take a long time, but keep to the 2" cover rule and it will likely last foreve.
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks yall.
I think im ready to start pouring tommorrow.
Im concerned about the weather.
Its suppose to be warm and pretty tommorrow, but rain and thunderstorms wednesday, do you think the concrete would be okay if finished tommorrow, or should I just wait for a couple of days of dry pretty weather?
I want to pour it tommorrow, if I can muster up enough manliness to go after 20 more bags of concrete, ive got 19 now, but I dont want to risk bad weather having a negative affect on my concrete square.
Can I build it and just cover it with a tarp or something?
Im also scared of running out of concrete half way or almost done and run out.
If that happened, could I just wet it real good and go after more, like cover the top with water, and go get more?
What would happen If I built up as much as I could, ran out of concrete, and went to get more. If I came back to a semi hard, or even hard block of concrete, would I just be building on top of a slab with more, or would it be able to soak in to whats already there?
Ive got about 32x32" hole (dont ask me how it got bigger, it did!) with four holes going down another foot and a half.
The main hole is about 22" into the ground, and needs to come up somewhere around 4'.
I dont think the wifes poor ole minivan can take more than 20 bags of 80lb concrete at once.
Oh, also...What about my drilling another 5th hole right in the middle of my main hole?
Think that would do anything to help, or possibly even hurt?
Ive got room in that hole for 4 or 5 more holes If i wanted to. Making it like swiss cheese bad?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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WM, looks like you have almost half your concrete you will need. I don't think you will need to add any more portland cement to the bags of pre-mix you have now. That concrete is usually rated at 3,000 p.s.i. after a 28 day cure, which will hold a heck of a lot more than any scope you may ever put on it. And all the time concrete is kept moist, it will continue to cure almost indefinitely. That is why concrete cured underwater is incredibly strong.
And sorry Manny, but I stick with the 2" distance for the rebar, it's right out of the code book. And you should tie the bar together.
Keith
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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You can run out of concrete at the halfway point without fear of any future problems and come back the next day week or month. Long as the verticle rebar sticks out of the pier you can keep adding to the height of it.
High rise concrete buildings are built this way and they are not falling down,,, yet.
They pour a floor and keep adding the next floor and just keep going with rebar holding it all together, if you need to leave for more leave the last of the mix really rough so the next batch will have something to help grab onto along with the rebar.
m2
As for the 2" rule "code" is not what I used to build with but blueprints from the major oil companies projects I got to build, sorry bad habit I guess from doing them projects Guess I should email them and tell them its not "code" I'm sure they will listen <G>.
Either way it's not going to fall apart.
No more holes in the bottom otherwise just dig it all out and fill to brim.
There are also lots of things he "should" be doing but by possibly passing, tieing the rebar is one that is easily passed .
Tieing the rebar only holds the rebar till the concrete holds it, long as the steel is where its supposed to be over lapped at the junctions is all it needs to be.
Other things he "should" be doing is a soil compaction test usually done by a soil testing comapany to check and if the soil this is resting on is hard enough to support it.
It "should" be deeper as well to hold this monolith(ML) from leaning when the soil gets soft and wet, there is one very low side to the ML, the other is way higher, I can see the possiblity of it leaning in the future, maybe not tommorow but in time it can happen.
He "should" be adding soil in compacted lifts after the pour to help support the ML on the low sides.
He "should" be having the excavation inspected (maybe his permit includes this feature)prior to pouring this to see if it meets code for what he's doing.
WM , please ignore my ramblings, you are doing just fine<G>
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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No need to get upset Manny, he's only going to hold up a scope that weighs but a few pounds. Not building an oil refinery.
The last major concrete pour I was involved with was a mega dam up in the interior of B.C. The concrete was supplied by an aerial system which ran 24 hours a day for several years.
It is quite true that he can stop half way through this pour as long as there is sufficient rebar protruding from below. But it's less than one cubic yard, so do it all at one time.
I expect some of the rebar you use in the oil refineries is well over an inch in size, I know there was several miles of 1 1/2" in the dam pour. In that instance, I can quite well see that you may be required to leave 6" of concrete outside the bar. And in any event, it is also quite likely possible that the residential building codes differ between "Flatlandia", Kentucky and Canada!!
Keith
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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I'm not getting upset, too early in the AM for that
<G>=Grins not gritting teeth.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3528
Loc: bellevue ne.
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I don't know why everybodies getting "upset" here. After all isn't CN basically all about overkill and screwups?? Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks alot, everyone.
Well, I spent all day from 8 this morning when i woke the boys up to run to Lowe's til just now, but the Boss and I got the dob slab done!  
It took a total of 51 80lb bags but were happy with the finished product! The wife even came home from work early to help me! What a woman!
When i ran back to Lowe's for 20 more bags and 15 more pieces of 18" #4 rebar, she did 4 or 5 bags herself!
So, its as full as can be of rebar.
We did a few bags, laid more 18" pieces like a tic tac toe board, and kept staking the 43" pieces of rebar within that.
We ended up with about 20 pieces of 18" rebar vertically, 15 pieces, laid across each other, and then about 12 more pieces of 43" rebar like birthday candles, but some had to lie kinda corner to corner as we got higher.
Heres some pics.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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She took the trowel away and never gave it back!
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Its level!
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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We used nothing but a wheelbarrow and the 'goon spoon'.
Were tough like that!
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Now that its done, its suppose to rain maybe tonight, for sure tommorrow. Should I cover it with something?
Put something over top of it to keep the rain away?
I fear a torrential pour could poke little water dents in it.
Whats the chances of that?
Leave it alone?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Oh, and look at that fufu hat she wore most of the time!
At least we were hidden in the back yard!
Its behind her to the left on the fence. Ickky!
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Sky Guy
super member
Reged: 04/08/07
Posts: 101
Loc: Hannibal, MO
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Definitely cover it to protect it from the rain. I am going to be very interested in how this all turns out. So far, its looking great!
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Mike
Meade 8" LX200 GPS
Orion 120ST
Meade LPI
Meade DSI Pro
Modified Canon 350D
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12727
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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And given the SIZE of that thing, I would wait a WEEK for it to set up before you remove the bracing...
Were you keeping the plywood "Box" around it?
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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Heaven help you if you ever have to break that thing apart.
Finishing concrete is like frosting a cake.
You have one heck of a family there, job VERY well done and your bed will never feel better tonight.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3950
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Very nice work and yes heaven help anyone who ever wants to remove that thing. Jeff's point is quite important ... that much concrete will take a little while to fully set and cure.
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Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - Modded 350D, DSI-P, SPC900, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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Congratulations to Mr. and Mrs. WidowMaker. Great job!!
The concrete might feel as though it is set tomorrow, but it takes 28 days to cure. After 7 days it will have more than enough strength to remove the forms if you wish. But the longer you can leave them there the better.
Once again, excellent job. Hats off to you both.
Keith
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Hey yall. Thanks for the kind words.
Ive looked everywhere. Ive got nothing to protect such a big square from the rain. It already feels hard to the touch, could rain really hurt it?
Quote:
Were you keeping the plywood "Box" around it?
Well, I might not have much choice depending on if it sticks to the concrete slab much. Theres just a tiny bit of nail sticking into the slab from all around the box, not even a quarter inch, but it left me wondering if the concrete will adhere to it.
*sigh...
I tried wrapping some plastic around it very gently, it may keep it dry, but if the rain comes a pelting it real hard, theres not much I can do.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3297
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you really know how to show a woman a good time! I like that!
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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Digital Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 1285
Loc: Manteno
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You'd better treat her right or YOU might be wearing that hat for the rest of the project!
Don
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Manny Myles
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 3462
Loc: Flatlandia
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Removing the forms today would not hurt a thing except maybe the finish if you were to start building on top of it.
We would pour concrete and start driving on it the next day with less than 24 hours without damage.
We would also pour floors for slab homes and the wood butchers would start building on it the next morning without damage
Concrete is amazing stuff.
Now you will read about keeping the forms on to help keep the moisture in and wrapping it with burlap or similar material and keeping it wet for extended periods of time to help the curing of it.
Its your option of stripping the forms or leaving them on, personally I'd strip them off and have a nice fire with them and let the pier breath.
You could also strip it and seal the exposed concrete with a cheap floor wax which works great.
Then while the pier is still green I take a rubbing stone and round off the top edge to give it a finished appearance instead of the chipped sqaured off edge that will be there.
Concrete generates heat and cures itself whether its covered and kept wet, with the forms on or au naturale.
Nothing speeds the curing time of it with the exception of having used a richer mix using more Portland cement, a plasticizer or Calcium Chloride
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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This is one of the best threads for CN! It shows that with a desire, help from CN members, the "impossible" can be done!
You & your wife are greatly admired; Bless her! She dives right in alongside you, in helping your Observatory come true! With your children's unique needs, you two still find the time to work hand in hand to make your Observatory happen
I know I'm speaking for all of us on CN, when I say the two of you are the essence of what CN is all about!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Bowmoreman
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 3996
Loc: Bolton, MA
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I'm with Carol, on this, Michael...
I'm LOVING this saga. Your wife is amazing; there is ZERO chance I'd see mine "messing with crete!"
If y'all ever move, I'd love to see the looks on the faces of whomever tries to get rid of that monolith
That is going to be one very stable dob platform!
How far above the ultimate wood flooring/deck have you decided to have it be? Or are you going for "flush"?
Reason I ask is: if you decide to have it be slightly ABOVE your ultimate floor level, if you ever get a dob (or EQ Platform) that wouldn't fit on it, you could always build a "mini decking" on top of it (overhanging your main floor w/o touching it) that would "size it up" enough...
Now, the downside of course would be it might be a tripping hazard... Though you could probably take steps to alleviate that with rubber step guards or something.
Just a thought... Cos with an obs as nice as this ones gonna end up, you just might want to "upgrade your aperture" someday!
Keep this story and photos coming!
clear enough skies
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Dave
Imaging: MI-250+ADM/SBS/Optec Libra: C11Hyperstar,TMB80SS
Visual: XT10i RTP
TV: 31T5,22T4,17T4,12T4,13Ethos,8Ethos;2x Powermate,Paracorr, 1.6X Antares, Hyperion8-24Zoom
Cameras: Mallincam Color Hyper Plus, QHY8
Guider: SBIG STV eFinder
Key Add-ons: Gerbings Heated clothes, WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO#90), Speco 9"Monitor
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 15042
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Geeze, a good looking woman who doesn't mind getting dirty doing good old manual labor!
Hard to figure why she keeps this guy around at all. 
That is one heck of a monolith there. Should be pretty stable under your scope. 
I'd shoot for level with the floor to avoid the tripping thing, but accomodations could always be made, as Dave said.
Now I can't wait for the rest of the build to commence.
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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DeanS
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 954
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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Wow, to think I can't even get my wife to help with the mowing, and you got yours to do concrete work!!!
Good job to both of you!!
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AP1200GTO AP900GTO
TOA-150 Tak E160
C9.25 Tak FS60C
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
8" LX200GPS
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3297
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The rest of you guys can learn a good lesson here.
Follow the example of a man that REALLY LOVES his wife to the ends of the world. What other kind of man would allow his wife to assist in a construction project? Not to mention finishing off the concrete! This man's love for his spouse shows NO bounds! I'd wager a bet he will even allow her admission to that most sacred of places...the Observatory.
I, myself, have allowed Marge to assist me in most of the more manly tasks that come to hand. The skill saw, drill, garden tractor, cement mixer, shovel, rake, chain saw, and yes, even my favorite sewing machine are just some examples of the tools I allow her to use due to my undying and forever love for her.
It takes a real man to admit his wife into the secret confines of our world.
Keep up the good work, (he said with an extremely large amount of humor in the tone of his voice, as he really knows who loves who, and how much )
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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WidowMaker
Catchy Title
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 1095
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thank you all very much, for the encouragement!
Were very proud, even if we could have done things a little better here and there.
Were going to look into that rubbing stone thing you mentioned, Manny. having a cracking-off sharp edge will be ugly. Hopefully, we can sand it down or something a little bit and make it easier to deal with.
How long do you think I have to do something like that?
You said while its still green, but how long will that last?
Its been raining ever since about 2 a.m. lastnight, and just kinda took a break.
I keep going to the window to peek at it like a 16yr old with his first car.
My baby is sitting out there all alone! 
I covered her in two thin sheets of plastic which is the only thing I could find.
As soon as i woke up this morning, I put on a rain coat and ran out there with my level, still seems accurate!
Quote:
How far above the ultimate wood flooring/deck have you decided to have it be? Or are you going for "flush"?
I think right now it will be about a foot higher than the floor. We wanted it to be elevated to see over the walls we plan on building high enough for some astrophotography one day.
My 'New CCD Astronomer' book just showed up lastnight (thank you Dean for the suggestion!) and Im pouring over it with a highlighter. It reads like the bible of astroimaging, very informative!
Also, Bush just sent us notice saying that our borrowed chunk of change from China should show up in a couple of days and he suggested I buy a pier with it. Well get a about $1200.00 and im looking all over the place at piers.
Any suggestions? I saw piers for about $5-800.00 somewhere, but cant find them now. I plan on doing like Dean said and trying to make my pier slab about 2'x2' so It might be able to handle whichever way i go into AI.
Links or suggestions on a pier would be sweet!
Thanks again, everyone! As soon as the rain goes away, im either going to start on the pier slab or continue with the floor joists.
I guess i should go ahead and do my slab for the pier first?
Oh, and the wife said when she pulled out this morning and saw the concrete driveway she wanted to spit on it.
I dont think she wants to do anymore concrete.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40267
Loc: montana
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Contact Scott Horstman (BYO) for pier ideas & pricing.
There are others also, whatever would fit best with your needs & budget.
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Bowmoreman
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 3996
Loc: Bolton, MA
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On Piers: give Scott Horstman a call at BYO, he has a really sweet pier (calls it the "Big Bear Pier" that has an automotive quality paint job on it, and is filled with some sorta super secret damping compound so it doesn't ring... also has built in electrics... I believe Don (one of his partners in BYO Crime) builds em custom.
I found them to be MOST price competitive. He may have info on his website.
I love mine! It is quite sexy looking in all gloss black!
Clear enough skies
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Dave
Imaging: MI-250+ADM/SBS/Optec Libra: C11Hyperstar,TMB80SS
Visual: XT10i RTP
TV: 31T5,22T4,17T4,12T4,13Ethos,8Ethos;2x Powermate,Paracorr, 1.6X Antares, Hyperion8-24Zoom
Cameras: Mallincam Color Hyper Plus, QHY8
Guider: SBIG STV eFinder
Key Add-ons: Gerbings Heated clothes, WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO#90), Speco 9"Monitor
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Bowmoreman
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 3996
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Quote:
Contact Scott Horstman (BYO) for pier ideas & pricing.
There are others also, whatever would fit best with your needs & budget.
Carol
Dang, Carol, but you are FAST... beat me by 60 seconds!
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Dave
Imaging: MI-250+ADM/SBS/Optec Libra: C11Hyperstar,TMB80SS
Visual: XT10i RTP
TV: 31T5,22T4,17T4,12T4,13Ethos,8Ethos;2x Powermate,Paracorr, 1.6X Antares, Hyperion8-24Zoom
Cameras: Mallincam Color Hyper Plus, QHY8
Guider: SBIG STV eFinder
Key Add-ons: Gerbings Heated clothes, WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO#90), Speco 9"Monitor
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