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Equipment Discussions >> Observatories

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csa/montanaModerator
Den Mama
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Loc: montana
Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4109119 - 10/11/10 11:46 PM

Great photo! That took a little planning!

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Chris Schroeder
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: csa/montana]
      #4109477 - 10/12/10 07:17 AM

One picture is worth a thousand word, great photo

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Peter9
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Chris Schroeder]
      #4114756 - 10/14/10 09:45 AM

Good to see you back Beo, thought we had lost you.

Nice image which will no doubt stir the heart in later years.

Regards Peter..


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Lord Beowulf
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Reged: 10/13/08

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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Peter9]
      #4128499 - 10/19/10 11:37 PM

Thanks all. These days I haven't had much time to spend on CN either, so it's always great to receive such a warm welcome when I do get a chance to pop in and say hi.

Beo


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Lord Beowulf
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Orion Setting on Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4556304 - 05/02/11 12:30 AM

Well, I took this at the start of my last imaging session for a while. I made the difficult decision to tear down my mount for the summer to try to get back to work on the observatory and at least get the slab poured. Of course the fact that my camera cooler failed part way through this imaging session only serves to help support giving up on imaging for a while! Great...more work to do! Hopefully I'll have things back up and running before Orion graces our skies again.

For reference, I'm including a couple of pics of the piers before the next stage of work.

Beo







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Peter9
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Re: Orion Setting on Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4556731 - 05/02/11 09:30 AM

Good to hear from you again Beo.
Skip mentioned your name on the Nexstar forum the other night and it got me thinking about your Orion ranch project.
Pleased it's still on going.

Regards. Peter.


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Skip
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: Orion Setting on Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Peter9]
      #4556890 - 05/02/11 10:57 AM

Hi Beo, I sent youi a PM. Sorry I missed you at CTSP!

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Lord Beowulf
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Re: Orion Setting on Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Skip]
      #4557888 - 05/02/11 08:33 PM

Thanks Peter and Skip. Skip, I don't see a PM from you, but sorry I missed you at CTSP. I've posted some pictures from there on my website as well.

Beo


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Lord Beowulf
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Reged: 10/13/08

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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: hm insulators]
      #4777116 - 08/30/11 12:29 AM

Hi All,

Well, I'm getting closer to trying to get my observatory slab poured, but have decided I need to get much more thorough in my planning to be successful. I still have a number of decisions to make, like windows, construction materials, etc., but I'm making progress and thought I'd share.

Beo





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Skip
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4778245 - 08/30/11 02:17 PM

Hi Beo,

I looked at your animation and I have a question. It looks like your roof will partially open over your warm room? Would it be better to have a permanent roof over that part and have the roll-off move in the opposite direction? Maybe that complicates the construction too much.

Are you planning to use one of the ROR observatories available on the web? Or do it all yourself?


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Lord Beowulf
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Skip]
      #4778825 - 08/30/11 07:35 PM

Hey Skip,

The goal is to not have any obstructed view directions. Thus, the angle of the hip roof is roughly the same as the expected light cone between the scopes and the walls. The only way to accomplish that was to run the roof completely off the observatory itself. Splitting the roof anywhere and running off either side would have required moving even further to get to an unobstructed view. Of course adding the warm room complicated things regardless of where I considered putting it.

What I have planned is to make the warm room slab almost a foot lower than the observatory slab, which gives room for a ceiling and some sort of flat roof just to seal the warm room. It's always possible I'll decide it doesn't make a lot of difference moving the roof those last few feet, but either way the warm room needs to be sealed even if the roof covers everything completely.

Beo


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Skip
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4779750 - 08/31/11 10:06 AM

Hi Beo,

I get it. I also thought about a more unobstructed view after I posted. Your plan sounds perfect! Anxious to see how it all plays out.

A guy on CN NexStar forum (Alex Post) has just completed his obs and it has been fun and instructive to watch. Looking forward to frequent updates on the Orion Ranch!

Best regards,


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Lord Beowulf
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Skip]
      #4804777 - 09/13/11 12:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Chris,

Welcome! I look forward to your input on my project... <SNIP>
Beo






Project looks good!

I might be tempted to completely close and insulate the control room to keep heat convection currents out of the views of the telescopes. Pipe the heat away from the control room using insulated ducting. Use a squirrel cage fan for maximum efficiency and minimum noise. Install a big, openable thermopane window between the control room and the telescope room.

I also like the idea of a floor channel with segmented removable cover panels between the control room and the telescope piers.

That's probably more nit-picking than you were looking for!




Hi Chris,

I'm moving this thread over to here to keep from annoying anyone on your welcome thread.

I definitely plan to have the warm/cool room hermetically sealed. I just haven't drawn the ceiling joists in yet. Things are going to get a bit tight there whatever I do, as I also want to have the drive sprocket over the warm room as that's the one location that will provide continuous contact with the roll-off. Problem is, that's perpendicular to the logical direction of the ceiling joists. I really don't want to have a 16' span going the other way! There's also door clearance and other issues to deal with. I still have some playing around to do there before I'm totally satisfied. I've already made the observatory walls a bit taller than I'd planned to allow for a standard code door and header. I know I could always go to a steel lintel to allow a shorter header, but the additional height is currently keeping me from having to make a step down inside the observatory (as opposed to a step up in the warm room). As far as heat from the control room, I figure that anything that makes it through the insulation in the ceiling will be caught under the open roll-off and tend to dissipate out away from the observatory. Either that or it will make a chimney flue out the ridge vents!

The window between warm/cold/control room is an interesting idea. I'd envisioned the possibility of using a fan in the doorway to pull air conditioned air into the observatory if needed (although that's basically a waste of electricity). I'm not exactly sure what other purpose a window there would serve. On the one hand, it seems you could check your equipment from the control room, but then you'd also have to shutter any lights. It also brings up the same security questions with windows. I'm not sure which room will be more secure, but I want SOMETHING to be secure!

As for cabling, I have three outlet boxes embedded in the piers, one for AC, one for DC, and one for digital. However, I was planning to go ahead and run at least one 3-4" PVC tube under the concrete as well for routing anything too big to fit through the conduit. The channel's not a bad idea either, but would require a bit of structural adjustment, not to mention added cost and a bump to roll my chair across! Of course the hole at the end of the PVC pipe won't be much of a picnic either. I'll have to think about that.

Currently the plan is for the north pier (closest to the warm room) to be the dedicated AP mount (as it has been) and the south pier to be for the visual scope. The setups are identical in case there's ever reason to change, but the north pier will have a better view of the southern sky. While I plan to have a remote PC in the warm room for monitoring the progress and possibly doing some processing, I still envision the need for a PC and display in the observatory proper so that I can find guide stars. Given that requires futzing with the OAG, etc. I don't think running back and forth to the control room is such a good idea! In that case, then all I really need is an Ethernet or even wireless connection back to the control room for accessing a shared drive and remote desktop.

Beo


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Chris EricksonModerator
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4805000 - 09/13/11 07:00 AM

Quote:

...As far as heat from the control room, I figure that anything that makes it through the insulation in the ceiling will be caught under the open roll-off and tend to dissipate out away from the observatory. Either that or it will make a chimney flue out the ridge vents!




One of two things will happen. Either you will be completely cooked out of the control room by trapped heat or you will have a big thermal source in the telescope view. That darn conservation of energy thing. And FWIW, every computer, light and other electrical device gives off heat. If a PC burns 200 watts of electricity, it is also radiating 200 watts of heat. Humans give off lots of heat too. Better to insulate and have ventilation with the exhaust piped well away from the observatory. Of course most people don't bother with thermal energy management in their amateur observatories. Personally I believe that is a mistake.

Your control room will naturally seek thermal equilibrium. If you are generating 1000 or so watts of heat in the control room, the temperature of the control room will rise until the amount of heat leakage matches the amount of heat generation and the amount of heat leakage will be based on the delta between inside and outside temperatures. So in other words, without active ventilation, if you are generating 1000 watts of heat in the control room, the control room will be radiating 1000 watts of heat, no matter how well insulated it is. The insulation will determine the inside temperature that will be reached before that equilibrium is reached. The best solution is active ventilation of the heat well away form the observatory. This is a standard feature of all modern professional observatories.

And heat will not be caught under the roof. It will simply heat the roof until it reaches its thermal equalization temperature and then radiates just as much heat as it receives from the control room.

The only other variable in the thermodynamics of an observatory is what is carried away laterally by any wind. And that will depend on wind speed, altitude and ambient humidity.

Quote:

The window between warm/cold/control room is an interesting idea. I'd envisioned the possibility of using a fan in the doorway to pull air conditioned air into the observatory if needed (although that's basically a waste of electricity). I'm not exactly sure what other purpose a window there would serve.




It is pretty convenient for testing and troubleshooting. And it is a nice touch for visitors. Make sure to have reasonably heavy, lightproof curtains or shutters.

Quote:

As for cabling, I have three outlet boxes embedded in the piers, one for AC, one for DC, and one for digital. However, I was planning to go ahead and run at least one 3-4" PVC tube under the concrete as well for routing anything too big to fit through the conduit. The channel's not a bad idea either, but would require a bit of structural adjustment, not to mention added cost and a bump to roll my chair across! Of course the hole at the end of the PVC pipe won't be much of a picnic either. I'll have to think about that.




Conduit is several orders of magnitude more difficult to deal with than a floor channel when it comes to installing and changing wiring. Most PC-class wires really do not like to be pulled through conduits and especially past existing wiring. Network cables and Teflon-coated electrical wire are nominal exceptions.


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buddyjesus
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Chris Erickson]
      #4806070 - 09/13/11 06:07 PM

could just try an electric blanket in that control room.

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Lord Beowulf
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Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX
Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: buddyjesus]
      #4806622 - 09/14/11 12:56 AM

Generally I don't expect to be heating the control room too much in winter, beyond the electric blanket that I currently use in my travel trailer during the winter. I'm actually more concerned about summer months where I'll be running an air conditioner out the far side of the control room. That will be a bit of a heat plume, and again be captured under the roll-off, provided it's still enough, and probably eventually make it's way out of the ridge vents. I'd expect the additional heat gradient to be pretty diffuse by that point and probably be no worse than the heat radiating from the roof itself until that cools down. And it's not like those 90 degree Texas nights won't be causing all sorts of thermal havoc as it is!

Beo


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Lord Beowulf
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4840500 - 10/02/11 11:49 PM

Hi all,

I've made a bit more progress in my framing design and thought I'd share another picture. Still a long way to go, but at least I'm getting an idea of what it's really going to take. I'm a bit scared to convert materials to cost here though!

Beo



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Skip
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: Orion Ranch Observatory new [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #4841125 - 10/03/11 11:14 AM

Lookin' good, Beo, lookin' good!

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Lord Beowulf
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Re: Orion Ranch Observatory - Foundation Done! [Re: Skip]
      #5022770 - 01/17/12 12:56 PM

Ok, after about a six month long effort, I finally have the next stage for my observatory completed. I haven't posted anything on this, so this will be one big long summary. As you may recall, I'd shut down my astrophotography at the start of last summer. However, the unbearably hot and dry summer we had made doing any work under full sun pretty impossible. Thus, it wasn't until this fall that I started making any sort of progress on preparing the footings, and that took me right into this last week before I was ready to have the foundation poured.

So I managed to dig holes through the rock for a couple of batter board posts at the start of July, and a couple more a few weeks later. (Note: This pictures are linked to my website. If I re-arrange things at a later date, the embedded images may break, but the link typically still works.



It wasn't until October that I finally got the batter boards in place and leveled so that I could really start!


I used an old fashioned water level to make sure that the lines were good. For something this size, that's more accurate than the cheap laser level I had.





So finally I can string level lines and start the ground work for the foundation.





Digging the first of the footers near the end of October.



I had to chip a bit of one of the pier footings to allow me to run a 4" pipe for cables under the slab and maintain vibration isolation.



Getting the pad under one end leveled out.


And the west footing with various conduits for the piers.




Working some more on the warm room side:


And the east footings.


By mid November I had footings for the observatory proper:


Digging through all that rock, the footings tend to get too wide, so I had to fill back in.


Before completing the warm room footing, I had to trench for the main power cable:


And then fill that back in and finish up the warm room footings.


Driving a ground rod into solid rock doesn't work so well, even with a jack hammer!


So finally by January 8th I've filled in some more areas and cleaned up the site, ready to have a contractor set forms and pour the concrete!


I put about an inch of foam around the base of each pier to isolate them from the slab.


I also had to take down the Orion Ranch sign and trim a few trees to make clearance for the concrete trucks!


At the end of day one, about 3/4 of the forms are up.


By the end of day two, they have the perimeter forms complete and rebar in the beams. I've also tied my pier vapor barrier into theirs.


By the end of day three, they have the rebar finished, and the forms for the step, and I've tied in all my conduits to come up out of the slab. Time to pour!




The first concrete truck arrives!


Pouring all the footings for the upper section first.


Second truck pours the slab (after getting lost).


Oops! The contractor kind of messed up when trying to thin the last of the concrete a bit and left the water on. Now I have a lake of concrete. Guess that's what I get for pouring on Friday the 13th!


Just a bit more on the last truck for the lower slab.


Then it's just a day of troweling the surface and watching concrete cure!


By the end of the day they've already popped the forms and continue to trowel the face.


They come back the next day to underpin the face and clean up a bit. Here's the finished foundation.










Of course there are tons more photos on my webpage now. Enjoy!

Beo


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Gastrol
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Reged: 11/04/11

Loc: los angeles
Re: Orion Ranch Observatory - Foundation Done! [Re: Lord Beowulf]
      #5022814 - 01/17/12 01:13 PM

Fantastic job on laying out the foundation!
Water levels are dead accurate I use it as well.


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