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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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Charlie HeinAdministrator
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Don't believe that this image is eligible...
      #3655162 - 03/01/10 07:35 PM

Quote:

BillP:



Here's "our" entry for Feb. It is a composit of many sketching members work to document the 2010 Mars Opposition which I just completed compiling.




Bill, I really like the compilation, but I don't know if it can be entered in the contest. There is a rule in the contest whose intent is to keep the images the work of one person. It was written from the perspective of an imager but the intent is pretty clear:

Quote:

10. You must be the owner or co-owner and operator. You must setup, align, take the exposures and process them yourself. No pay by the hour rent-a-scope images will be allowed.




I do not think that a compilation of several folks work will pass muster without changing this rule.

Charlie


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mathteacher
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3655377 - 03/01/10 09:28 PM

The intent of the rule rule seems to be exclusion of rent-a-scope images.

This is a different animal all together. But, if submitting a entry from a group is disqualified by the mods, so be it.


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BillP
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3655397 - 03/01/10 09:37 PM

If that's the rule, guess that's the rule. Seems though that the rule needs some updating if a group of CNers get together to submit a single work. Otherwise the rule discourages group efforts and sub-community building and only encourages lone-wolf works. Some food for thought next time the rules are reviewed.

Would be nice however, if there were some way to get the work of this entire forum of Mars sketchers a front page spot somehow. A lot of good work here around an important celestial event. I think it's a good example of the CN community and how it is a little different than most. Something to be proud of.


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Hrundi
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: BillP]
      #3655604 - 03/01/10 11:30 PM

Each of those could be entered separately, but if entered like that, then practically half of the sketching forum wins

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Jeremy Perez
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Hrundi]
      #3655632 - 03/01/10 11:47 PM

Bill, if all the contributors were to give the ok, this would be wonderful to feature at ASOD.

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Tommy5
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Hrundi]
      #3655637 - 03/01/10 11:49 PM

You can always make a waiver from a rule, especially if the rule basically has nothing to do with the submission,I think some folks refrain from submitting their works in a contest as they don't sketch to win contests, but this group effort shows what sketching is all about, individuals offering their vision to the group and other folks comparing data and everyone learning in the process,to reject it because of an irrelevant rule diminishes the contest not the entree, anyway its your contest and we will have to respectively abide by your decision.

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JayinUTModerator
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Tommy5]
      #3655677 - 03/02/10 12:15 AM

Jeremy and Bill,

I give my consent to use my image however you want. If you need it in a PM let me know.

Tommy,

Outstanding post. I appreciate your elegant wording and agree with you.

Edit out last paragraph.

Edited by JayinUT (03/02/10 08:58 AM)


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mandotrout
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3655706 - 03/02/10 12:47 AM

Quote:

Bill, I really like the compilation, but I don't know if it can be entered in the contest. There is a rule in the contest whose intent is to keep the images the work of one person. It was written from the perspective of an imager but the intent is pretty clear:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10. You must be the owner or co-owner and operator. You must setup, align, take the exposures and process them yourself. No pay by the hour rent-a-scope images will be allowed.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I do not think that a compilation of several folks work will pass muster without changing this rule.





Aaahhhh, cmon. That's one of the coolest things I've seen on CN. Rules were meant to be broken...errr,uummm...bent, maybe.


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S1mas
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Reged: 12/08/09

Loc: Lithuania
Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: mandotrout]
      #3655799 - 03/02/10 02:53 AM

Well, I submitted my sketch for Feb contest, but I vote to let this amazing compilation to be and win this contest!

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dweller25
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Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Lancashire, UK
Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: S1mas]
      #3655835 - 03/02/10 04:02 AM

Quote:

Well, I submitted my sketch for Feb contest, but I vote to let this amazing compilation to be and win this contest!




I also submitted an individual sketch for the Feb contest but would be happy for the compilation to stay in and win. My drawings are free to use by anybody for anything.


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cildarithModerator
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: dweller25]
      #3656038 - 03/02/10 09:36 AM

As much as like the compilation, I agree with Charlie, this doesn't qualify for the monthly contest.

These entries should be entirely the work of the person submitting them. This particular image also raises the issue of submitting the work of other people to the contest without their permission - which may not be appreciated by some.


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BillP
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Jeremy Perez]
      #3656132 - 03/02/10 10:44 AM

Quote:

Bill, if all the contributors were to give the ok, this would be wonderful to feature at ASOD.




Great idea Jeremy. I've sent out PMs to everyone.


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ErixAdministrator
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: BillP]
      #3656172 - 03/02/10 11:03 AM

Bill, you are most welcome to submit it to ASOD as far as my sketch is concerned. Since some of us use user names here, it might be a nice addition to list our real names in the description portion (or even under the individual sketches if you felt like making that change) for the ASOD entry.

Mine is Erika Rix.

Great job on the compilation. I love seeing group efforts like this.


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Jeremy Perez
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: BillP]
      #3656178 - 03/02/10 11:05 AM

Bill, while you're at it, you may want to ask about the ok to submit to Spaceweather, APOD, and AAPOD. It is that good.

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BillP
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: cildarith]
      #3656184 - 03/02/10 11:09 AM

Quote:

As much as like the compilation, I agree with Charlie, this doesn't qualify for the monthly contest.




Eric,

Would you speak to the powers that be about possibly adding a new section to the monthly contest? One for multi-party or group works? This way some very unique items could be presented like groups of imagers, sketchers, etc. and even a mix of all the groups. Would allow some very creative outlets. If there is interest and they need a volunteer to draft of a set of rules for that category, I would volunteer.


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starquake
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Reged: 02/02/08

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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: BillP]
      #3656470 - 03/02/10 01:32 PM

I understand the point behind the disqualification of this entry, so I've picked another entry to to give my vote to (and it's not mine).

Anyhow, I just wanted to say, that I congratulate to everyone who took the time to sketch Mars last month and were patient enough to wait until their mirror cools down.


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frank5817
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: starquake]
      #3656497 - 03/02/10 01:46 PM

Bill,

It was an inspired idea and a gallant effort on your part to give this idea a try.
The rules of the sketching/image contest should be followed to the letter or modified to be inclusive of such a work.

Frank

PS Bill in my mind you won for originality


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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: frank5817]
      #3656515 - 03/02/10 01:57 PM

Thanks Frank. Never my intent for "me" to win. Would demand 25 t-shirts from CN if it won From the beginning for me, this was and is definitely "our" work. A great team of Mars sketchers here I've sent PMs to all for permission so it can be posted off-CN like suggested...to ASOD and other places. Credit will always be to all 25 members whose pics are shown. Once I get all the permissions then will maintain a thread here letting people know where it is posted so they can see and keep track.

btw, now that Saturn is becoming more of an evening star...we should do the same thing for it as well


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Charlie HeinAdministrator
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: BillP]
      #3656523 - 03/02/10 02:04 PM

Quote:

If that's the rule, guess that's the rule. Seems though that the rule needs some updating if a group of CNers get together to submit a single work. Otherwise the rule discourages group efforts and sub-community building and only encourages lone-wolf works. Some food for thought next time the rules are reviewed.

Would be nice however, if there were some way to get the work of this entire forum of Mars sketchers a front page spot somehow. A lot of good work here around an important celestial event. I think it's a good example of the CN community and how it is a little different than most. Something to be proud of.




Bill, that's a good thought. I think I'll nose around a bit and see if something can be arranged.


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Charlie HeinAdministrator
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3656596 - 03/02/10 02:40 PM

Once again folks, I really am truly sorry about this.

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JayinUTModerator
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3657019 - 03/02/10 06:51 PM

Bill,

Great idea on Saturn! I encourage you to start a thread where we can post our sketch of Saturn and then combine it into one piece. I look forward to seeing everyone's observation. Someone may want to get Sol's Saturn template out if he is agreeable.


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markseibold
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3657808 - 03/03/10 07:51 AM

Bill, Charlie, and all

This was a great idea and a new venture to experiment in multiple imaging. I just wished you could have included my entire sketch showing the Martian landscape. I almost entered that one. You have all reminded me to enter into the ASOD eventually which I have totally overlooked so many times now.

Thanks again and I hope they can find a place for this great collage compilation that Bill assembled. You have my persmission to use my image.

Mark


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Jef De Wit
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3657935 - 03/03/10 09:28 AM

Bill, good idea for Saturn. Count me in.

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Sol Robbins
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Jef De Wit]
      #3658655 - 03/03/10 04:12 PM

Though I don't think what is happening here was a bad thing, I do understand the moderators' concerns regarding authorship. I believe this was done simply out of a mutual respect for the observers rather than some other motive.

That said, my stuff had been printed in a major astronomy magazine without my permission. The magazine believed that since it came by it through a secondary source, they believed it was fair game through that source. The magazine, technically, makes money through the content and quality it prints and sells. That's the bugaboo since they assemble their content and quality from outside sources for the most part. Its also been used in various astronomy club's online tutorials and observing guides without permission. IMO, a magazine should know better. Non-profit amateur astronomy clubs get the benefit of the doubt.

Again I don't think there is any of that type of thing going on here regarding in this particular case. I believe that the folks here at CN maintain a pretty high standard in terms of respecting authorship and vendor ethics.

Might be best to not make a big deal about a friendly contest, and I say this because I sketch simply for the fun of it. That said, I believe that this particular compilation can make the rounds in other forums, I.E. Beginners & Planetary forums. I think the ensuing discussions and comments made in a noncontest format would hopefully be a very positive thing for obvious reasons.

Anyway, I hope I'm somewhat clear about this.

Best,


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BillP
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Sol Robbins]
      #3658717 - 03/03/10 04:45 PM

Quote:

Might be best to not make a big deal about a friendly contest, and I say this because I sketch simply for the fun of it. That said, I believe that this particular compilation can make the rounds in other forums, I.E. Beginners & Planetary forums. I think the ensuing discussions and comments made in a noncontest format would hopefully be a very positive thing for obvious reasons.




Sol,

I like the concept of having an area for people, or groups of people who might work a mixed media project together, could post their best efforts. A gallery of sorts. We kind of have it already as a forum space in the AstroArt Forum. However, all the work here gets no CN Front Page attention and not sure a forum format would be most condusive. Would be quite interesting to have a front page window or something where you could simply scroll thru the fascinating images, sketches, mixed art people produce. Then clicking on the ones you like might take you to the thread in the AstroArt Forum where it is posted and discussed. Maybe something like the way reviews are set up where all the reviews are in one space, then you can link to the threads discussing them...or something a little more attention getting and friendlier interface perhaps...but the basic concept. A lot of the stuff is quite exciting to see as people are so creative...just a shame that it's all hidden so deep in the bowels of the webspace IMO.


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ladip63
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: BillP]
      #3658732 - 03/03/10 04:52 PM

bill,
That is a good idea to make a compilation of others work. It shows the different styles. I hope you will make more of these Bill. Sorry it was not included in the contest. You can always frame it.
Lynn


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Sol Robbins
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: BillP]
      #3658748 - 03/03/10 04:57 PM

That's an interesting idea. If I understand correctly you're suggesting a web page-format with thumbnails.

In the past a thread was started that turned into many sketches of Venus during a particular apparition. I guess the problem with that was it turned into a super thread. Still it was great fun and very informative.

Maybe a simpler idea is to create a compiled image that gets a sticky with a title like "Mars Opposition 2010".

That's only a thought considering formats being what they are.

Just a 0.02 idea.


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Special Ed
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Sol Robbins]
      #3663170 - 03/06/10 08:48 AM

Hello everyone,

First, I'd like to thank BillP for taking the time to compile the set of Mars images at the head of this thread. I was amazed to see the work of 25 different sketchers. It certainly demonstrates that, in this era of superb backyard imaging, astrosketching has not diminished--indeed, it seems to be surging in popularity.

I think this surge is in no small part due to the development of a virtual community of amateur astronomers sharing their observations and experiences on the Web. The people here at CN have been instrumental in encouraging this community. There are other astrosketching forums around the Internet but this Sketching forum in particular is probably the focal point of sketching on the Web. It's no accident that the webmasters of ASOD are both long time and valued contributors to CN.

Sol mentioned several past threads that turned into very satisfying collaborative efforts. One, that was put together by Sally Russell (aka The Chemist), was featured here on ASOD a couple of years ago.

Whatever form they take, I feel sure that CN will continue to provide welcoming and innovative venues for astrosketchers around the world.


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ErixAdministrator
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Special Ed]
      #3663271 - 03/06/10 10:02 AM

Quote:



Sol mentioned several past threads that turned into very satisfying collaborative efforts. One, that was put together by Sally Russell (aka The Chemist), was featured here on ASOD a couple of years ago.

Whatever form they take, I feel sure that CN will continue to provide welcoming and innovative venues for astrosketchers around the world.




We'll get that every now and again in the solar forum as well with camera images and sketches combined. This is a great community.

BTW, for those of you that may not have noticed, Tom put this thread on the announcements page. Link to announcement Thanks T!


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Special Ed
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Re: Don't believe that this image is eligible... new [Re: Erix]
      #3663508 - 03/06/10 11:59 AM

Erika,

Thanks for that reminder about the solar forum--there have been some wonderful collaborative threads there.

Btw, I forgot to mention that Sally's compilation also made it onto LPOD, so BillP, when you get the final version ready, take Jeremy's suggestion and submit it to Spaceweather, APOD, etc. as well as ASOD.


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