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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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Sarkikos
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SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT
      #4217761 - 11/29/10 08:31 PM Attachment (58 downloads)

Jupiter
Began drawing 11-29-2010 0000 UT (11-28-2010 7:00 PM EST)
Finished drawing 11-29-2010 0020 UT (11-28-2010 7:20 PM EST)
Sys I 101.86, Sys II 276.57
Equatorial Diameter 43 arcsec
Seeing II Antoniadi, Transparency 4/5
10" f/4.8 Newt Dob
Burgess Binoviewer w/3x OCA, Orion ED-2 22mm paired eyepieces, 164x, 0.3 deg TFOV, 1.5mm exit pupil
Apodizing mask
Baader Moon & Sky Glow stacked with Baader Fringe Killer
Baader Moon & Sky Glow stacked with #15A Deep Yellow
Baader Moon & Sky Glow stacked with #11 Yellow Green
Maintained photopic adaptation by intermittent exposure to bright white light

Something seems to be going on here ....

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos (11/29/10 08:32 PM)


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lunar
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Reged: 07/03/10

Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4217809 - 11/29/10 08:58 PM

That's a good sketch Mr. Rowles! I was wondering, how are the Epic ED-2 eyepieces? I was discouraged from buying the 5MM by cloudy nights members, and instead was told that the TMB Plan. II eyepieces overall gave sharper views. How do they perform for you? I still like there design and overall appearence.

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Sarkikos
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: lunar]
      #4217922 - 11/29/10 10:09 PM

Thank you, Brandon.

The Epic ED-2 22mm is the only eyepiece that I have from that series. From what I've read here on Cloudy Nights, it was probably the best of the Epics. I bought one years ago and liked it for the relatively wide field (55 deg - well, that was years ago), good color, good contrast, a field that's sharp to the edge and an economical price. Many observers have complained about blackouts / kidney-beaning when using the Epic ED-2s, but I never had this problem with the 22mm. So later when I bought a used Burgess binoviewer and was looking among my eyepieces for those that had binoviewing potential, I chose to buy another Epic ED-2 22mm. I got the second one used, but in like-new condition. My 10" f4.8 Newt requires a 1.9x or 3x OCA to come to focus with the binoviewer, so the effective focal length of the ED-2 22mm is about 11.6mm and 7.3mm, yielding 104x and 164x respectively.

I can't vouch for others in the Epic line, but the 22mm is excellent for binoviewing, and does especially well on Jupiter. If any of my other eyepieces performed as well in this niche - including a Vixen LVW 8mm and a Meade 5k UWA 6.7mm - I would be observing Jupiter with them instead of a pair of binoviewed ED-2s. I've put together a number of other eyepiece pairs, but none have shown me as much detail with as much contrast as the 22mm Epic, not even my BGO 9mms. I try not to prejudge equipment according to how much I - or anyone else - paid for it. The Epic ED-2 22mms were pretty cheap but they are real good binoviewing Jupiter through my 10" f4.8 Newt. It is what it is. They do get'er done.

Now, if you don't plan on getting a binoviewer, I'm not sure if the Epic ED-2 22mm would work as well for you. If your 10" has a 1200mm focal length like mine, that would only give you about 55x. I'm a big advocate of using lower power to observe Jupiter, but 55x is too low by at least half even for me. So you would need to Barlow the 22mm to get 110x or more. I couldn't guarantee that you'd get the same results as binoviewing the 22mms. You probably wouldn't, although it'd still give you a nice view of Jupiter, I have no doubt.

Clear & Steady Skies,
Mike


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Catapoman
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4217948 - 11/29/10 10:21 PM

Hey Mike,
That is an excellent sketch with lots of detail in the EZ. I was out about the same time with 4" refractor seeing lots of detail but nothing like what you've sketched. Thanks for sharing.


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Tommy5
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Reged: 03/28/04

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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Catapoman]
      #4217999 - 11/29/10 10:46 PM

very nice sketch, looks like the seb is back great detail.

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Sarkikos
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Catapoman]
      #4218073 - 11/29/10 11:25 PM

Pernel,

Thanks much. There are some interesting phenomena taking place now on Jupiter. I'm glad I got at least one clear evening when I could catch the show!

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Tommy5]
      #4218079 - 11/29/10 11:28 PM

Tommy,

Thanks. Yes, I think it's official now: The SEB is back! We've been seeing the outbreak events that are bringing back the SEB. What is really neat is how quickly its progressing now. Too bad the weather only lets me catch a visual snapshot now and then, and struggle to produce a sketch of it.

Mike


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Uwe Pilz
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Reged: 05/16/08

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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4218196 - 11/30/10 01:12 AM

Dear Mike,

yes we can see a real band in the sout. Jupiter seems to be fast changing in these days. Every sketch is very valuable.

I like the lot of fine detail. Thank you for sharing.


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george golitzin
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4218197 - 11/30/10 01:13 AM Attachment (37 downloads)

Very nice sketch of the breakout region! Here's my effort on the other side of the planet...maybe the little dot below the GRS is one of those blobs emanating from the plume breakup, as you've drawn it.

10" f/5 at 209X (7 mm T6 + paracorr)
seeing about II, but I had thermal issues.
UTC ~2:30, 30-11-10

-george


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CarlosEH
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4218212 - 11/30/10 01:31 AM

Mike,

An excellent observation of Jupiter and the SEB Revival. You have captured the appearance of the revival very nicely. As your observations shows the region is exhibiting a significant amount of upheaval. Thank you for sharing it with us all.

Carlos


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geminijk
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Reged: 04/03/08

Loc: TN
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: CarlosEH]
      #4218246 - 11/30/10 02:06 AM

Great detail captured Mike. I had my first chance to view the outbreak Sunday night, seeing didn't permit much power, but I finally caught it. The dark feature on the NEB extending down into the EZ was very prominent too. What a great time to be a backyard stargazer, Jupiter has been putting on quite a show.

John


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CarlosEH
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: geminijk]
      #4218299 - 11/30/10 03:12 AM

George,

An excellent observation of Jupiter. You have captured what appears to be Oval BA within the South Temperate Zone (STZ) and a good amount of detail over the North Equatorial Belt (NEB). Thank you for sharing it with us all.

Carlos


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george golitzin
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: CarlosEH]
      #4218313 - 11/30/10 03:50 AM

Thanks very much Carlos. The entire STZ was very fleeting and so I rendered it pretty vaguely with an eraser. The planet's appearance was much softer this evening than in several previous nights during this apparition, and it was hard to get sharp detail. I've had some nice views of "Red Jr," but not tonight. The festoon was suspected, and the little mark above the barge is an artifact of my scanner, I think, but the little dot below the GRS, almost as big as a transit shadow, was genuine, along with the little barge in the NTB. Also I've placed the GRS too far south, although it definitely is taking a bite out of the NTB (correction, STB!).

-geo

Edited by george golitzin (11/30/10 04:58 PM)


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Jef De Wit
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: george golitzin]
      #4218372 - 11/30/10 06:23 AM

George and Mike, this are two beautiful sketches!

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Sarkikos
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: george golitzin]
      #4218600 - 11/30/10 10:02 AM

George,

Quote:

Here's my effort on the other side of the planet...maybe the little dot below the GRS is one of those blobs emanating from the plume breakup, as you've drawn it.




Great sketch of the GRS side of Jupiter. That condensation on NTB looks familiar. The little blob below the GRS is very interesting. I caught a feature like that in October but it was following the GRS in line with the STropZ Band.

Sketch of Jupiter 10-18-10 at 0100 UT

Mike


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niteskystargazer
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4218617 - 11/30/10 10:12 AM

Mike,

, for the info about the SEB, I'll have to look for it when our weather clears up.

, on your very nice sketch .

CS,KLU,

,

Tom


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frank5817
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: niteskystargazer]
      #4218755 - 11/30/10 11:34 AM

Mike and George,

Very fine and detailed sketching of Jupiter. The reappearance of the SEB is very clear.

Frank


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george golitzin
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4219437 - 11/30/10 05:09 PM

Hi Mike--

I see you have a similar condensation in the NTB on your 10/18 sketch, which is really beatiful by the way. I recall also seeing that very striking row of barges along the EQ edge of the NEB--remarkable!

--geo


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Sarkikos
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: george golitzin]
      #4219672 - 11/30/10 06:52 PM

Hi George,

Thanks. The sketch from 10/18 was probably the one that gave me the most satisfaction so far. There was a lot going on during that observation of Jupiter. But there's even more going on now! This has been a very nice Jupiter opposition all around! I think a lot of observers have enjoyed the show Jupiter's put on this year.

Mike


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dweller25
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Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Lancashire, UK
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4221188 - 12/01/10 02:09 PM

That's a fantastic observation Mike, well done.

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HCR32
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Reged: 08/27/10

Loc: Australia
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: dweller25]
      #4222689 - 12/02/10 05:00 AM

who needs ccds. nice work

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planet earth
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4222759 - 12/02/10 06:44 AM

Very nice sketch Mike.
What's your thoughts on using a Orion Variable polarizing filter #5560 (1 to 40 percent transmission.)
Regards
Sam


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Sarkikos
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: planet earth]
      #4223197 - 12/02/10 11:32 AM

Sam,

If you have a polarizing filter, it wouldn't hurt to try it. I've tried many different filters on Jupiter, even ones you'd think wouldn't help. Some filters helped, but many didn't help or made the view worse. I have tried neutral density filters and polarizing filters on Jupiter and other planets and didn't think that they helped. Those filters reduce the apparent brightness of the object, which IME is not needed on Jupiter or planets in general. What we need to do is increase contrast, either for the surface as a whole or for specific features. We don't need to reduce the brightness or "glare."

IMO, if Jupiter appears to be too bright that's because the observer's eyes are not correctly adapted for observing a planet. Don't use a red light when viewing Jupiter. Use a white light, and in fact, it's a good idea to look at a reflection from the white light every ten minutes or so. This will help maintain your photopic ("daylight") vision. You want to avoid letting your eyes slip into mesopic ("twilight") or scotopic ("dark") vision. Photopic vision has the greatest acuity for detail, contrast and color. IMO and IME, if Jupiter looks too bright, the problem is in the observer's eyes, not in the image.

Mike


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cpsTN
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: lunar]
      #4224091 - 12/02/10 06:17 PM

Brandon. I had the 9.5mm Epic from Orion several years ago. Good eyerelief and a big eye lens to view through. Some blackouts, but when you get used to it, its easy to know where to put your eye. I like it for lunar and planetary.

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Scanning4Comets
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: cpsTN]
      #4224964 - 12/03/10 04:43 AM

Nice drawing Mike,

I saw almost the same amount of detail last sunday night without anything you listed...mono viewing to boot in my 127mm Mak !!!

I used to use ND and polarizing filters to view planets and it helped reduce irradiation on the planet immensely....with the ND filter, I saw a wealth of detail on Jupiter with festoons, etc.

Next will be binoviewers for me, and I will be picking up another ND or polarising filter for planets again.

Your other drawing HERE shows way more detail...I guess that baader filter would help see more detail...and maybe a few more things you mentioned...I did see lots of detail before but am willing to try new techniques to see more.


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Sarkikos
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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #4225222 - 12/03/10 09:44 AM

Scanning4Comets,

Quote:

I saw almost the same amount of detail last sunday night without anything you listed...mono viewing to boot in my 127mm Mak !!!





Good job! A binoviewer, M&SG and other filters, apodizing mask (when appropriate), etc. has allowed me to squeeze out those last few subtle details. I notice an obvious improvement in visual acuity when I switch from monoview - even with a great eyepiece like the Vixen LVW - to binoviewing, yes even with the much-maligned Epic ED-2s.

Quote:

I used to use ND and polarizing filters to view planets and it helped reduce irradiation on the planet immensely....with the ND filter, I saw a wealth of detail on Jupiter with festoons, etc.




Of course, you should use whatever works for you, but I've yet to see an improvement on any object when using ND or polarizing filters. If I have room in the equipment box I bring them along, though I virtually never use them. Often it seems that observers either love them or hate them. Well, I don't hate them, I just haven't seen that they do me any good. I might give them another try. But I would advise you to get a Baader M&SG instead, or see if an observing buddy has one that you can borrow.

Quote:

Your other drawing HERE shows way more detail...I guess that baader filter would help see more detail...and maybe a few more things you mentioned...I did see lots of detail before but am willing to try new techniques to see more.





Much of the time when the drawing shows more detail, it's because Jupiter showed more detail! On the other hand, I try not to put anything on a sketch that I don't actually see. My goal is to show as closely as possible what I see in the eyepiece. Sometimes I experiment with turning up the contrast in my software so that some details can be seen more easily by people looking at the sketch. But if I do that too much, the result is that some of the fine details - especially those in the EZ and the resurgent SEB - will be much easier to see when you look at the sketch than they could be seen at the telescope. That's when people will remark that, "Such-and-such feature wasn't really that dark, was it?" No, but if I sketch it as soft and subtle as it was in the eyepiece, you might not see it on the drawing!

In the drawing I posted in the current thread, I toned down the contrast to give a better impression of how these finer details appear when I look in the eyepiece. Actually, I'd rather do this and make the person looking at my sketch struggle a little to tease out the festoons and networking in the EZ and SEB. That gives them a better feel for how these things really appear.

For many of these sketches of Jupiter that experienced observers post on CN, I bet most people would not have seen a lot of the finer detail that's on the sketch if they had looked in the eyepiece themselves. That's just the way it is.

Mike


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