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Equipment Discussions >> Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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cj7hawk
member


Reged: 02/15/11

Loc: Perth, Australia
DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project.
      #4793923 - 09/07/11 07:25 AM

Anyone interested?

Yes, I am serious... Some heavy DIY involved and a but of glue and cutting and more glue and cutting, but something with a lot of gain, very low noise and cheap.

More suited to fitting a permanent lens of fairly short magnification ( eg, under 200mm ) and using for locating objects, for which it is excellent, but if you're really dedicated and a glutton for punishment, you could attach it to any telescope.

Now, before anyone gets too excited, there are some caveats.

1. It weighs about 2Kg.
2. It's about the size of a pringles can.
3. It has some serious "fisheye" distortion.
4. It involves older, surplus tubes.
5. You can connect a video camera if you like. Heck, it already weighs 2Kg - you could attach a Betacam if you like.
6. It's a beginner level project. If you can tie your shoelaces but only barely, it's not for you. If you can cut straight, use sharp tools and color within the lines, it should be doable.
7. It involves PVC plastic and black plastic paint.
8. It will look ugly, but it will compare to older Gen3 tube technology even though it's actually Gen1 technology. ( Called "Cascade" or "Multi-stage" or "Starlight" technology.
9. You can make a terrestrial project out of it. They work well down to starlight levels without any extra IR.
10. You will have to find the parts. I can only provide guidance. But I've seen someone make one with duct-tape and cardboard as the main components.

If anyone is interested, let me know. A fun project and great for spotting satellites, meteors, comets, alien motherships or anything else that comes close to the earth but is a little difficult to see.

And before I get too far into it, you can see details of previous projects here: http://aunv.blackice.com.au/cgi-bin/nightvision/forum?index=projects&story=cascade

But I will be straight up and say "I have never made one of these for an eyepiece adapter before and it may not be very pretty... But it should work OK."

Anyway, this first post is to gauge interest. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to make it a group project. It's still fun even as an example to how to make your own kit and you can always buy some cheap Gen2 or Gen3 tubes to make your own eyepiece using the same technology.

Even that probably won't be pretty, but if you're in for the ride, let me know I've run projects like this on a few forums in the past and they go down pretty well, though most of the people who use them with telescopes are spotting satellites or aircraft or other flying objects.

But if the interest is eyepieces and the weight doesn't make you burst out in laughter, I'll go through the motions there too and talk you through everything you wanted to know.

The fun comes with a lesson in how intensifiers work and everyone is welcome to watch who doesn't join in. Just so it's known upfront, I don't get anything out of this except enjoyment - so I don't sell the parts or make any component of it.

Regards
David


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cj7hawk
member


Reged: 02/15/11

Loc: Perth, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #4793928 - 09/07/11 07:28 AM


Oh yeah, I should add, although it's military technology for the project, it's export-compliant so it's an international project, well, mostly anyway. Not just US based.

Regards
David.


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ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #4794010 - 09/07/11 08:44 AM

David,
Nice work! I think this Gen 1 P8079 cascade tube (3 stages) datasheet can be helpful:
https://picasaweb.google.com/jbzzzjb/NightVision?authkey=Gv1sRgCNix_PfG9sHCqAE

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


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nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #4794089 - 09/07/11 09:40 AM

A fun project - I've played with Gen#1 EODs in the past both single stage, single stage with polarity reversed [Ov at output screen for contact photo-film] and triple stack EOD and as you say the latter is heavy. Mine used exclusively for astro and were all quite noisy. Used M42/Pentax screw adapter to receive s/h camera lenses from 28mm to 300mm. Currently use a cheap commercial NVD but good luck with your project

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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: nytecam]
      #4794162 - 09/07/11 10:25 AM

David, if you gain interest in this thread from folks wanting to build the project, go ahead and do a tutorial.
Don't tack it on the end of this one though. Make a whole new thread entitled 'DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project - Tutorial' and I will add it to the other tutorial threads so it won't get lost


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cj7hawk
member


Reged: 02/15/11

Loc: Perth, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #4794180 - 09/07/11 10:40 AM

Thanks Ken -

LOL, I should have thought of that, that in an electronics forum section in which everyone probably knows how to assembled a telescope that most of you would know how to add an IIT already.

An easy enough mistake to make as the new guy Kind of embarrasing too. I saw a few projects here, but not DIY IIT systems. I guess the experience level here is higher than I thought.

If the knowledge around here is at that level, I may not find anyone new to the concept, but if anyone is interested, I will do that then

Out of interest, have many on this forum already made their own eyepiece?

Regards
David


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #4794192 - 09/07/11 10:48 AM

David, there aren't as many as you think that know about IIT's.

I for one know absolutely nothing about them except they give a green image
But if you do get interest, I'll add your Tutorial


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cnoct
super member


Reged: 09/02/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #4795800 - 09/08/11 05:28 AM

David, Really good idea and I look forward to seeing you do this. I would like to make some suggestions. It is certainly not be a $200 dollar one but may be of interest to some.

Here are my suggestions:

A guide on the types of image intensifiers most easily adapted for telescope use and ones that are currently available from ITT, L-3, Photonis etc These would probably be more or less limited to the MX-10160, MX-10130 type and possibly the MX-11769. This list could include companies located outside the U.S. so as to not leave out those that are not able to purchase from the U.S.

A list of suppliers where these image intensifier tubes can be purchased:

http://www.summitnightvision.com/nv_image_tubes.html
http://www.nvdepot.com/imageintensifiers/index.asp

A list of OEM housings that can easily adapted such as the AN/PVS-B/D and Micro monocular and are available with or without the image intensifier. Also units such as the, AN/PVS-7A/C, B.E. Meyers OWL and Recon M3NV (formerly Star-Tron MK-880) etc... This list would be pretty long and a bit involved as some units already come with suitable lens mounts e.g. c-mount while others need simple adapters made or purchased. Id probably limit it to the ones that are the simplest to adapt since anything with an image intensifier can be adapted to a telescope, A good example would be the AN/PVS-7B/D, which is cheaply available second hand. These units are fantastic for astronomy and only require the purchase of a c-mount adapter that replaces the objective lens. These adapters can be sourced from places such as:

http://www.adamsindustries.com/

Video or text on how image intensifiers work such as the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpwSnb_mgkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVOjNNK_-gQ&feature=related
http://www.nivitech.com/nightvision-gns.htm

A guide to performance specifications and what they mean in the real world. As well as which ones are more crucial than others and why they are so.

A realistic guide on the limitations and benefits of image intensifiers for general star gazing and telescope use. This could include the type of telescopes most suited to image intensifiers.

I am sure there are a few suggestions missing but its as start. No pressure , just some thoughts that might enable more folks to enjoy image intensifiers and realize that they are accessible and easily integrated into telescope use. This is not to mention their unmatched use as a general stargazing tool.


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efahrenholz
member


Reged: 06/29/11

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #4797993 - 09/09/11 10:47 AM

David, I have kinda wanted to try this in the past, but the weight was just a massive hurdle to overcome. The problem is the mounting points. You need to be able to anchor the intensifier to the telescope (excluding a reflector possibly) in a fashion that allows easy removal. I thought about it, but everything I came up with involves permanent mounting to a telescope.

You could utilize a lightweight housing for the intensifier, or I suppose PVC would work but it is a bit heavy. Most telescopes offer t-mounting and I recommend trying to mount it that way. A 35mm slr bayonet mount would be best, as c-mount is a bit narrow but could work. There needs to be sliding rails that we can pinch down because a focuser will not hold the intensifier, it will just roll out. I thought about using those rails off of desk drawers but adding a threaded stop screw (like the ones from eyepiece holders) or you could bend in the rails so it doesn't slide unless you overcome the pressure. Honestly, the focus knob is going to take some imagination. I'll brainstorm a bit but the very best idea I came up with is a threaded stop screw against some moving part.


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PEterW
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/02/06

Loc: SW London, UK
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: efahrenholz]
      #4805911 - 09/13/11 04:36 PM

More details on how this would compare to a reasonable gen3 tube.... Gen1 are usually not worth the bother! How well would it couple to a fast scope? Can you provide some data on the tube response, I'd be interested to see what kind on h-alpha response it has... To hunt down sharp less emission nebulae. I am tempted by the price and the use of epoxy and duct tape.

Cheers

PEterW


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Lightning
sage


Reged: 07/04/10

Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #4812476 - 09/17/11 10:35 AM

Very interested, though it better be international. Being stuck with Gen1 in any country other than US is such a load of bull...

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cj7hawk
member


Reged: 02/15/11

Loc: Perth, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Lightning]
      #4817837 - 09/20/11 10:37 AM

Hi Guys, Sorry for the late get-back... A few busy weeks at work lately.

A cascade tube is technically a Gen1, but it uses three tubes in a row to amplify each stage, so it's like a Gen1 to the power of 3. That's an oversimplification of the formula, but it's easier to think of that way. While a normal Gen1 ( or Gen1+ though very few tubes are ) can achieve up to 500x gain, a cascade uses additional stages to get additional gain. These are military tubes as were used in Vietnam and even by the UK forces in the Falklands conflict.

Cascades compare *very* well to Gen3 and are about the same quality as earlier Gen3. They don't convert photons to electrons quite as efficiently ( About 25% of the performance of a Gen3 ) but they are extremely low noise and very high gain - A typical Gen3 has a maximum gain of around 50,000 while a top-quality cascade tube can achieve around 100,000 gain with much lower ebi and noise levels. So in terms of raw amplification, it's about 8x higher gain than a Gen3.

The very best tubes, BTW, are Gen3+1 which are quite rare and also known as hybrid tubes and these couple a Gen3 with low gain to a Gen1 amplification stage. These are capable of visualising individual photons but are best known for low-noise high-gain output. Mostly they use them for military purposes but they cost a lot so are very rare.

OK, thinking this one through, I am going to split the project to cover US and Non-US users. I am going to make it generic, will discuss tube technology in detail, including looking at how to make this project work with Gen1 cascade as well as Gen2 fiber plate and Gen2/3 glass input tubes. I will also extend the project to making standalone scopes with Gen1 cascade and similar and also look at the smaller, lighter 18mm Gen1 cascade tubes, which are sometimes a little more advanced, a lot lighter and might be supportable by a telescope as an eyepiece.

That way, people will be able to assemble either a standalone telescope, adaptable eyepiece or dedicated eyepiece with whatever tubes they can get their hands on. I'll also track down a few suppliers around the world for Gen1 cascade technology.

Lightning - I might even be tempted to make some low-cost Gen3 Omni IV military surplus tubes available for Australian projects if anyone locally is wanting to make one since they are near impossible to import from the US but I only have a few here in Perth and they would be strictly for Australians due to legal requirements.

I'll also look at ways to add a video camera for recording of images. Any other requests, add them in to this thread and if they are in line with the other project objectives, I'll add them in Give me a few days to collect all the parts and order the project components for both Gen1, 2 & 3 and I'll start putting the first part of the project together.

Regards
David


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greg
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: Central Ca.
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #4818173 - 09/20/11 01:24 PM

Great..... I'll follow this tread....
Thanks for taking the time to share with us.

GregW


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efahrenholz
member


Reged: 06/29/11

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: greg]
      #4837243 - 10/01/11 09:36 AM

David, the best route for adding video to the unit is going to be something lightweight. I recommend a webcam but not any webcam--and spc-900 philips. They will work for video capture and can be modified for long exposures. Another suggestion is the panasonic scb-2000, because it has up to 8 second intengrations. That would make the mallincam croud a little jealous since you could capture objects MUCH quicker. Not as colorful but hey, it's nearly instant fir most deepsky objects.

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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: efahrenholz]
      #4837352 - 10/01/11 10:54 AM

efahrenholz says:
Quote:

David, . . . Another suggestion is the panasonic scb-2000, because it has up to 8 second intengrations. That would make the mallincam croud a little jealous since you could capture objects MUCH quicker. Not as colorful but hey, it's nearly instant fir most deepsky objects.




1. It's a Samsung, not a Panasonic

2. The Philips ToUcam 840 Pro II and the SPC900NC are both fantastic webcams. But no-one has worked out how to do a Live broadcast thru NSN with one modified for long Exposure yet.

3. No, the Mallincam crowd don't get jealous of the Samsungs '8 seconds' capture
I use both the Samsung SCC-A2333 and the Mallincam Xtreme together switching betweeen the two and they really are chalk and cheese

But Bang for Buck the Samsungs do a good job.
But Jealous? Not on your Nelly


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cj7hawk
member


Reged: 02/15/11

Loc: Perth, Australia
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #4839030 - 10/02/11 11:01 AM


LOL! I am doing this on the cheap... Actually, my budget for the necessary starting parts has run dry before I got started thanks to a BIG mistake by a company that charged me several thousand dollars too much by accident and now I am waiting to get the charge returned ( They are OK about it and acknowledge the mistake ) - But it's really messed with me ordering some of the extra parts I need.

Anyway, yeah, expect ultra-cheap stuff... And very unconventional, with PC based control of the camera and adjustable high-resolution exposure tubes - but I still need to get and test the camera first.

So far, the equipment list for this project that I have collected and prepared;

1 x P8079HP Cascade Tube ( Gen1 )
1 x xx1130 distortion-corrected 18mm lightweight cascade tube ( Gen1 )
1 x Omni IV level Litton M869 Gen3 tube. Similar to MX10130 in size.
1 x MX10160A style tube. ( or MX11769 )
1 x xx2500 ( MX9644 style ) adjustable gain Gen2.
1 x Gen2+1 "Hybrid" tube...
Assorted C-mount adapters and mount parts.
Battery boxes ( commercial ) and switches and stuff.

So I am planning a Gen1/2/3 project with sufficient information to use whatever tubes the user can get and I'll explain the photocathodes as well. I'll write up a technology primer too.

As for cameras? Think small, like Microscope... Setup like an adjustable focus relay lens. But I need to find the right one.

eg, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-0Mp-NEW-DIGITAL-USB-MICROSCOPE-500x-8xLED-Camera-/110728070990?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Medical_Scientific_Equipment2&hash=item19c7e8474e#ht_4005wt_905

It's a 2.0 MP ( 1600x1200 ) image sensor with USB interface and direct-to-PC attachment with software and exposure times out to 1 second and it's very lightweight. With modification, it looks like it might be perfect for what I'm planning. ( Feedback is OK - Image Intensifiers I know, the needs of the astronomy community, I do not )

I still need to buy it yet and determine it's suitability... Also I need to make whatever I do make usable both with eyepieces and camera.

Regards
David,


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earthman
member


Reged: 11/17/09

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #4849475 - 10/07/11 07:37 PM

I have been useing a Dino-lite digital microscope with my ETX-125. Got Jupiter a weekago for the first time. It isnt to bad but it was not a great night out, maybe a 5. I'm going out here in a bit and try out the Dino-lite and a Logitech quickcam i tore up and put a heatsink on. Havnt tryed the webcam yet, thats tonight. lol

What i found out is that focus takes for ever to get just right. Since the microscope focus's too. Once you got it, it works good.


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efahrenholz
member


Reged: 06/29/11

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #5210508 - 05/07/12 03:55 PM

Quote:


LOL! I am doing this on the cheap... Actually, my budget for the necessary starting parts has run dry before I got started thanks to a BIG mistake by a company that charged me several thousand dollars too much by accident and now I am waiting to get the charge returned ( They are OK about it and acknowledge the mistake ) - But it's really messed with me ordering some of the extra parts I need.

Anyway, yeah, expect ultra-cheap stuff... And very unconventional, with PC based control of the camera and adjustable high-resolution exposure tubes - but I still need to get and test the camera first.

So far, the equipment list for this project that I have collected and prepared;

1 x P8079HP Cascade Tube ( Gen1 )
1 x xx1130 distortion-corrected 18mm lightweight cascade tube ( Gen1 )
1 x Omni IV level Litton M869 Gen3 tube. Similar to MX10130 in size.
1 x MX10160A style tube. ( or MX11769 )
1 x xx2500 ( MX9644 style ) adjustable gain Gen2.
1 x Gen2+1 "Hybrid" tube...
Assorted C-mount adapters and mount parts.
Battery boxes ( commercial ) and switches and stuff.

So I am planning a Gen1/2/3 project with sufficient information to use whatever tubes the user can get and I'll explain the photocathodes as well. I'll write up a technology primer too.

As for cameras? Think small, like Microscope... Setup like an adjustable focus relay lens. But I need to find the right one.

eg, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-0Mp-NEW-DIGITAL-USB-MICROSCOPE-500x-8xLED-Camera-/110728070990?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Medical_Scientific_Equipment2&hash=item19c7e8474e#ht_4005wt_905

It's a 2.0 MP ( 1600x1200 ) image sensor with USB interface and direct-to-PC attachment with software and exposure times out to 1 second and it's very lightweight. With modification, it looks like it might be perfect for what I'm planning. ( Feedback is OK - Image Intensifiers I know, the needs of the astronomy community, I do not )

I still need to buy it yet and determine it's suitability... Also I need to make whatever I do make usable both with eyepieces and camera.

Regards
David,




David, have you proceeded with this project? I have ordered one of those 20x-200x usb microscopes. I am hoping that the 1 second exposure time is enough to capture plenty of photons off the phosphor to make a usable image of faint objects. Plus, I can hang out inside while I surf the sky. I hope that this gives me the ability to grab 1 second integration video so I can stack and clean up the signal. This way I can get more details. I figure a second of capture time should help, right?


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efahrenholz
member


Reged: 06/29/11

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5210545 - 05/07/12 04:14 PM

Quote:

efahrenholz says:
Quote:

David, . . . Another suggestion is the panasonic scb-2000, because it has up to 8 second intengrations. That would make the mallincam croud a little jealous since you could capture objects MUCH quicker. Not as colorful but hey, it's nearly instant fir most deepsky objects.




1. It's a Samsung, not a Panasonic

2. The Philips ToUcam 840 Pro II and the SPC900NC are both fantastic webcams. But no-one has worked out how to do a Live broadcast thru NSN with one modified for long Exposure yet.

3. No, the Mallincam crowd don't get jealous of the Samsungs '8 seconds' capture
I use both the Samsung SCC-A2333 and the Mallincam Xtreme together switching betweeen the two and they really are chalk and cheese

But Bang for Buck the Samsungs do a good job.
But Jealous? Not on your Nelly




The intended message is that the aid of an intensifier with an integrating camera will deliver scenes faster than a mallincam. Image intensifiers can deliver instantly what a camera would take 15-20 seconds to capture. While this can be of benefit, occasionally there aren't enough photons to make a complete image in real time. This is where exposing for an extended period of time beats intensifier technology. Combining the two will enable the observer to grab magnitude 10 objects in only seconds instead of one-minute plus integrations. There is a loss of dynamics, because color information isn't recorded. This can be overcome with a filter wheel but it can complicate the process. It's much simpler to realize the luminance data and appreciate being able to see the object quickly.

It's also a lot more cost prohibitive to purchase a mallincam, as you can pick up a decent cascade tube and samsung camera for under $500. Putting a housing together is simple, as it's really just dremel and pvc work. I hope this clears things up.


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runner70
member


Reged: 08/21/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #5988060 - 07/24/13 04:19 PM

I am currently trying to adapt my p8079hp for astronomy viewing. I have encased it in pvc tubing and will employ a separate mount to mate it to my f/4 sn 10". Has anyone combined this nv tube with a telescope, and with what results? I am to test it tonight with a ~10nm h alpha filter. Any suggestions?

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Furmo
member


Reged: 01/17/13

Loc: York, UK
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: runner70]
      #5997874 - 07/30/13 06:48 AM

I used parts from an eyepiece projection photography adapter I never got around to using - it basically allows me to screw my cascade tube directly onto the 2" focuser of my Startravel 120 f5 refractor. This means I can easily switch from NV to normal observing and my telescope didn't need any adaptation at all.

I also fashioned an eyepiece holder to the rear and rearranged the elements in a cheap eyepiece I had so I can use that rather than needing a camera, or looking at the little rear screen from a distance.

I can upload photos of it tonight if you like but my efforts are very 'industrial' to say the least - lots of poor soldering, zip ties and duct tape! I also have another tube with a camera lens attached for hand-held viewing - neither look very pretty but they both work well.


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runner70
member


Reged: 08/21/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6004317 - 08/03/13 03:29 AM

Which tube are you using, and what are your results?

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mattflastro
Vendor - Astrovideo Systems


Reged: 07/31/09

Loc: Brevard County , FL
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: runner70]
      #6008737 - 08/06/13 02:26 AM

Quote:

I am currently trying to adapt my p8079hp for astronomy viewing. I have encased it in pvc tubing and will employ a separate mount to mate it to my f/4 sn 10". Has anyone combined this nv tube with a telescope, and with what results? I am to test it tonight with a ~10nm h alpha filter. Any suggestions?



Where do you get these tubes in the USA?


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seryddwr
Innocent Bystander
*****

Reged: 02/19/10

Loc: La-la land.
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: mattflastro]
      #6023586 - 08/13/13 05:44 PM

The only place I've seen the Gen I cascade tube is here at 80GBP (about $123 US, plus $7 for international shipping) it's tempting. I've had my eye on one of these, but they cost quite a bit more.

Edited by seryddwr (08/13/13 05:55 PM)


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PEterW
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/02/06

Loc: SW London, UK
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: seryddwr]
      #6023649 - 08/13/13 06:13 PM

Anchor supplies in the UK a bit cheaper but more on postage.... Only sources I know in the world.... Get them while there is still stock left.

Peter


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runner70
member


Reged: 08/21/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6033284 - 08/18/13 05:44 PM

I'd be interested in seeing your results; which cascade tube are you using?

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seryddwr
Innocent Bystander
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Reged: 02/19/10

Loc: La-la land.
Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: runner70]
      #6088167 - 09/18/13 02:28 PM

I just found a decent looking, new-old-stock GenII tube on fleabay, which I just procured for $300. When I get around to doing something with it, which may not be soon, as I'm trying to finish my dissertation by early spring, I'll start a thread. I'll probably attach it to my Lumenera camera.

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Live_Steam_Mad
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: seryddwr]
      #6092765 - 09/21/13 01:38 AM

I'd be very interested to see a cheap DIY version of something not too unlike the Collins I3 Piece (an eyepiece IIT device using Gen 3 USA Military technology that can't be easily bought by me in England) but that uses either one single gen 1 tube (CHEAPEST possible tube please! Either used or new) or cascaded in 2 or 3 stages. Please tell us all how you construct such a thing, I believe there would be much interest in it. I have access to a Myford 7 lathe etc so could make stuff (maybe) and at least I can solder well so that's something I can do if I have to. Let us know how it works out.

Here is the Collins I3 piece for reference ;-

http://www.ceoptics.com/ccd/i3.html

http://www.ceoptics.com/I3messierpics.html

Regards,

Alistair G.

Edited by Live_Steam_Mad (09/21/13 01:49 AM)


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PEterW
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Live_Steam_Mad]
      #6092882 - 09/21/13 06:21 AM

Someone in the uk did put one of the cascade systems on a scope, did have some effect, but not amazing from what I heard.
Problem is anything less than the best is not going to perform as well. Build a cascade system and try... Cheap and you have a nifty (though heavy) night vision system if it doesn't work do so well in the scope.

Cheers

PeterW


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: seryddwr]
      #6122682 - 10/07/13 02:47 PM

I found the wiring diagram to power this puppy and built a quick and dirty power converter. The thing has a built-in high voltage power supply and takes an input of 2.7 volts. It has an adjustable gain. I'm going to test it at the scope. It has a bonded fiber optic output that acts like a screen, so I won't need an eyepiece for a quick and dirty test. (I tested it indoors, with a camera lens for the input.) I'll post a pic when I get back from gazing tonight. Everything is already loaded and I'm only waiting for the batteries on my little tablet PC to fully charge.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: seryddwr]
      #6250729 - 12/13/13 11:20 AM Attachment (26 downloads)

It's been a while since I've posted on this. I was able to do a few tests with the device, I used a very wide angle, f/2.5 lens to do a test. It works, but I'm not sure if I saw any more stars than I could with my eye, but again, the thing is very wide angle. With my Dob, everything was brighter than with my eye, but I couldn't hold it very steady. It looks like it might work to intensify the image in front of a video cam, to try and negate the read noise. We'll see.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: seryddwr]
      #6253359 - 12/14/13 08:18 PM

Hi David, What's the quality like using the EEV P80 79 HP
on globular clusters and nebulas? Most definitely I'm interested. I found a web site called Sourcing intensifiers
in which Andy and Damian made an intensifier{showing how to make one} and gave some reviews on how it worked but not
enough on globular clusters. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6254161 - 12/15/13 10:31 AM

"Proper" intensifiers resolve globs very well, not had the chance to try my cascade on them.... Clouds :-(

Peter


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6254384 - 12/15/13 12:17 PM

Peter, when you say "Proper" would a EEV P8079 HP be more than adequate? I don't need the very best{because I can't afford the best LOL} just don't want a tube that's not quite up tot the task. So I would be willing to squeeze the budget to get a tube that's more than adequate. This is exciting! I have a CGEM with a MoonLight focuser and a 2" diagonal. I would like to put the tube in the diagonal and look through it like a regular eyepiece. I think
the MoonLight would handle the weight what do you think?
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6256681 - 12/16/13 05:29 PM

I have just started a blog about using the kind of intensifier mentioned in the first post. You can see it here if you are interested,

http://dxvid55.blogspot.co.uk/

Clear skies!


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6257228 - 12/16/13 10:25 PM

Hi Furmo, YES please put up some photos so we can see how your using the Cascade on your refractor. Thanks for doing this. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6257508 - 12/17/13 04:19 AM

Great info, good to see another UK person trying this, keep us posted on how it performs!

PEterw


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6258908 - 12/17/13 08:26 PM

From what I've read the EEV P8079 HP tube cannot be used directly on a{CR6"} OTA without cutting the tube.
Are their any image intensifiers that could be adapted to
an eyepiece and then used on my refractor? Thanks De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6260550 - 12/18/13 05:22 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the EOD output screen radiate over 180degs hemisphere- how do you efficiently collect and reimage this onto the output camera?

A CCD sensor in contact with the output screen would be interesting IF there was no intervening cover glass etc to the sensor


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: nytecam]
      #6261266 - 12/19/13 03:01 AM

Yes, but like a TV, but it's bright and you can take a picture of it with any camera you can poke down the eyepiece.

PEterW


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6261286 - 12/19/13 03:22 AM

Quote:

Yes, but like a TV, but it's bright and you can take a picture of it with any camera you can poke down the eyepiece.

PEterW


Thanks Peter - that's the standard / casual technique but is it efficient ? When we talk of CCD cameras the overall QE is important - why isn't it with EODs !!

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6263619 - 12/20/13 12:15 PM

Just changed the link for the blog mentioned on page 2, to make it more search-engine friendly,

http://imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6301806 - 01/09/14 11:13 AM

Please accept my apologies, I haven't been back on the forum since I posted so didn't see your request.

I see that Dxvid55 has provided some excellent info on his blog so anything I post will probably be redundant now but I have clear skies predicted tonight so I'll try and take some pictures of my own setup and provide some comments on my kit as well to compliment his.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6303416 - 01/10/14 02:31 AM

Thanks Furmo, Would like to see the potential of the 7980HP tube before I spend the $200. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6311606 - 01/14/14 03:14 AM

Furmo, In doing some research I ran across this statement;
"Ion scintillations increase with input signal, but are more visible when there's high gain at low light levels and not enough signal to hide them".
Is this the reason that the 7980HP would not be good to use with an eyepiece at the telescope? De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6314221 - 01/15/14 11:56 AM Attachment (59 downloads)

Hi De Lorme

Unfortunately you have mistaken me for someone who knows what they are talking about!

I initially bought one of these tubes to assemble a hand-held unit and only attempted to bolt it to my telescope out of curiosity - I know nothing about the technical aspects of these tubes I'm afraid, and it was probably only sheer luck that I got my 2 projects to work! Hopefully someone more intelligent than me will be able to help you with your question!

I did drag my gear out the other night but, as I suspected, my results add nothing to the excellent blog above.

I have attempted to attach an image I took through the eyepiece of Orion (using my mobile phone camera). It's not very good and doesn't really do the real view much justice - comparing it to the view I had through the scope with the cascade tube removed, I would say I could see twice as much of the nebula with the P8079HP attached. For info, I live in a terraced house near a city centre so light pollution and other viewing conditions are pretty awful.

Living in North Yorkshire, I also only had a limited window of time before the clouds rolled in and prevented me trying any other targets.

I'm sorry that I probably haven't helped you one bit, I was fortunate enough to buy my tubes when they were a lot cheaper than they are now so I appreciate your reluctance at the current price.

If I get any clear skies again soon, I'll try and carry out some more tests.

Regards

Furmo


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De Lorme
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6315672 - 01/15/14 11:58 PM

http://imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/
Hello Furmo, You've been a lot of help;and I know next to nothing about image intensifiers to. Take a look at Dave
Jones web site{above}. He said when the moon goes away{and he gets a chance}he will take a picture of M79 which is a
Mag 7.7. This is really exciting. I've been believing for a solution to cut through the light pollution. In my minds
eye I'm thinking that the 7980hp will show a 40 to 45 degree
view with the heart of the view pretty good; which clusters and most nebula will fit nicely into. Yes it won't be a Generation 3 but as a comparison plossi eyepiece at least
let you look and this will{hopefully} be even better.
Clear Skies, De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6321681 - 01/19/14 05:46 AM

Hi Furmo, What eyepiece are you using? Are you using a 1.25
eyepiece{low or high profile?}adaptor attached to the intensifier and then the eyepiece inserted into the adaptor. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6321950 - 01/19/14 10:53 AM

I use a 10x magnifier I had though some people use 25ish mm plossl eyepieces that are chopped down, anything that magnifies the screen a hit is fine.

PeterW


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6328211 - 01/22/14 12:09 PM

Hi De Lorme

I dismantled a cheap 15mm Celestron eyepiece which came with my telescope and experimented with putting the lenses in different positions using washers until I found the perfect position for it to focus on the rear screen of the cascade tube.

I made an eyepiece holder by cutting the end off an eyepiece cap and stuck that in place - this allows me to use the single adapted eyepiece on both of my cascade tubes, depending on whether I want to use the one attached to my telescope, or the hand-held unit.

Probably a bit crude compared to other peoples solutions, but it works well for my setup

Furmo


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6331852 - 01/24/14 02:31 AM

Furmo which Celestron 15mm{Plossi, Ortho} are you using? Would you take a picture so I could see how you attached the eyepiece? Exactly what do you mean by dismantled and
how did you apply the washers. OH Please give me a picture!
Thanks for the help. Will be buying the 8079HP soon. I can't wait to assemble and try it out on M79 and 42.
De Lorme


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Furmo
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6338265 - 01/27/14 08:31 AM

Hi

REALLY sorry for the late reply - life has been very hectic recently and I rarely get on the net these days.

I will take some pictures and provide more details when I get home tonight.

Sorry again for the delay in my reply.

Kind regards

Furmo


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De Lorme
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6339564 - 01/27/14 08:22 PM

I understand, Sounds like your running with your tonged
hanging out!LOL. This is so exciting! I believe this is a real solution to the light pollution and aperture problems!
I can't wait to see the picture and info.
Thanks for the help. Clear Skies, De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6339751 - 01/27/14 09:50 PM

Furmo, BTW my intensifier is on it's way from Starlight.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6340251 - 01/28/14 05:58 AM Attachment (26 downloads)

Hi De Lorme

Please see the attached photos!

The eyepiece holder is simply an eyepiece cap with the end cut off and then superglued into place - it actually fits PERFECTLY into the rubber ring around the projection screen.

The eyepiece I took apart came with a Celestron accessory kit I got free with my Nexstar scope. It had 2 glass elements and I just experimented with swapping them around in various positions using plastic rings and washers before I found the perfect position. I tested this by placing the EP on a mobile phone screen to see if it reached focus at (effectively) zero distance.

I think I actually ended up using the bottom of the 2 elements placed on top of a plastic ring which was originally on top of it (if that makes sense) so after all the trial and error, I didn'y actually use any additional parts!

I have also included a photo of my assembled tube for reference.

I hope some of this proves useful, and please do let me know if you have any other questions!

Kind regards

Furmo


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Furmo
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6340252 - 01/28/14 06:01 AM Attachment (21 downloads)

I just realised I can only post one picture with each message - this is what the EP looked like before I dismantled it:

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6340254 - 01/28/14 06:01 AM Attachment (16 downloads)

And this is it in bits:

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6340255 - 01/28/14 06:02 AM Attachment (22 downloads)

Finally - this is the finished unit:

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6340902 - 01/28/14 12:41 PM

A photographic deep red filter should help some with the light pollution. Put it between the eyeepiece and the output lens.

Good luck and best wishes with your IIE experience!


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: StarStuff1]
      #6341395 - 01/28/14 04:23 PM

Furmo, The tube that goes into the diagonal is it just taped into place on the intensifier? Does it seem pretty stable in the diagonal? Is it a 1.25" or 2" tube? Thanks for the great help! This is going to be easier than I thought. It's freezing cold here in Colorado Springs Co
and it's going to be this way for a week! The intensifier has been shipped and I cannot wait to put the intensifier
together. Thanks again and Clear Skies! De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6342290 - 01/29/14 02:49 AM

Furmo, I don't understand how the eyepiece is set up to go
into the cap. Would you try and explain how the eyepiece set
is or even better show a picture as though your getting ready to put it inside the cap. Many thanks for the help.
I really appreciate it. De Lorme


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PEterW
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6343207 - 01/29/14 01:51 PM

I got cj7hawks 3d parts made up, jammed a c-cs mount adapter in the front and wedged a 10x loupe I had up the back. Can fit prime focus or use cheap CCTV lenses. Simple, the battery and switch are held on by sticky tape at the moment.

Cheers

Peter


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6344096 - 01/29/14 08:55 PM

Peter, Take a picture so we can see what you have done.
Have you looked up with the intensifier yet? If so how
good was the view. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6348978 - 02/01/14 11:51 AM Attachment (23 downloads)

Here goes, simple, keepeaning to put it in a proper tube. Probably need to blacken the lens end to stop stray light.

Peter


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6348979 - 02/01/14 11:52 AM Attachment (19 downloads)

And

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6348981 - 02/01/14 11:53 AM

Looking up is hard as it hasn't stopped raining in who knows how long, we're all swimming over here.

Peter


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6349860 - 02/01/14 07:30 PM

http://imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/
Peter, That looks real good. Dave{at the above website}said that he had light going through the tube so he first wrapped his in duck tape{mans best friend LOL} and then put heavy gage aluminum foil over the tape and then duck tape over the aluminum foil. That solved the problem. How close
would you say is the 10x loupe is to the viewing screen?
Thanks De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6350526 - 02/02/14 02:41 AM

Pretty close, it came with a clear spacer to hold it at focus which was removed. The printed parts have a helical focus that works well but might need a tint bit of sanding to get working first time. The front lens mount is a cmount spacer FORCED into place so it'll never go anywhere.

Peterw


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: StarStuff1]
      #6352095 - 02/02/14 09:32 PM

StarStuff1, Which would be better Lumicon 25 red or 29 red?
I would be using it on a CR6". De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6352098 - 02/02/14 09:35 PM

Does any body here know where to buy a gain control and how to wire it in? Thanks De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6352491 - 02/03/14 03:00 AM

No gain, just power on/off.
Quick cascade check in my streetlight infested backyard, no moon and I tried to hide from the streetlights. The cascade(50mm f1.4 CCTV lens) shows more stars with bright green background than naked eye. Pop a 12nm halpha filter and there is still a noticeable green background with slight scintillation (and probably some dust visible on the screen) The stars are pretty much all gone, m42 seems less visible too, no other nebulae around.

Comparing to a "proper" NV (25mm f1.5? stock lens) there are more stars (resolution better) and still stars with the halpha, darker sky background, m42 improved with the filter and California and Rosetta nebulae faintly visible too.
Ok not a fair test, should have tested the rg630 filter instead as this wouldn't have affected it so much. The cascade is definitely sensitive, I was reading book covers in a pitch black room with it.

Cheers

Peter


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6352511 - 02/03/14 03:33 AM

Guys, please please try to couple this with a narrowband H-alpha filter - I think 12nm is still too broad, as excess LP will make its way and get magnified - this could be the answer to light pollution for live nebula viewing:

Telescope + 7nm Baader H-alpha filter + image intensifier + eyepiece = awesomeness?

Basically you filter out all the light pollution and moonglow, and amplify the most common frequency to have nebulae stand out. This could really be a killer in light polluted area. I'll venture and say you could probably view the horse nebula from heavily polluted sky with that kind of setup. I cannot stress enough how awesome that would be.

So now, on to how to procure those tubes and how to build. It seems the difficulty here is to get good tubes. Gluing some batteries, eyepiece lens, etc is the easy part.

So my understanding is the Gen1 is available everywhere, but Gen3 is restricted to the US. However, Gen1 can be cascaded (but doesn't that multiply the price? i.e. multiple units are needed). How about all those night vision scopes? Do they contain such tubes?

Honestly, I'd gladly buy such an "eyepiece" at a reasonable price (rather than the expensive Collins eyepieces).

Looking forward to some progress on this, and some international smuggling of Gen1 tubes (note to NSA Prism: smuggling term is a joke. Gen1 seems OK around the world, so relax).

Cheers,

Yannick


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De Lorme
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cuivienor]
      #6352534 - 02/03/14 04:24 AM

starlightnv@zen.co.uk
Yannick, Starlight says that they will ship world wide.
imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/
Check out the above website. If you do a search there are others doing this. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6352542 - 02/03/14 04:36 AM

Did you do anything with 9644 tube?

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6352548 - 02/03/14 04:43 AM

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1k-POTENTIOMETER-Lin-variable-Linear-1-k-resistor-pot_W...

Peter the above website shows where you can buy a gain control. I read recently that it was installed between the
positive{on the tube}and the on off switch. But don't know how the wiring would go. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6352550 - 02/03/14 04:47 AM

Highfnum, I don't know anything about the 9644 tube but I will check it out. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: runner70]
      #6352573 - 02/03/14 05:32 AM

sorry - cj7hawk had it listed in his /her shopping list

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6352579 - 02/03/14 05:41 AM

I took a quick look, $500 plus the accessories to put it together. To high for me right now, maybe later.
I'm sure the 8079HP will help on gobblers and nebula's.
Will be here soon, I can't wait. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6355725 - 02/04/14 02:43 PM

Well I bit the bullet on the 8079HP! Let's see what I can get out of it!

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cuivienor]
      #6356028 - 02/04/14 05:40 PM

Cuivienor
I keep looking at Furmos M42 picture LOL. It's keeps me believing that it's really going to help.
http://imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/
On the above website Dave said:David Jones1 January 2014 09:57

It should work very well on globular clusters as they are older redder stars transmitting partly in infra-red and these tubes also operate partly in infra-red. I haven't had a chance to try it yet on a globular cluster, but from my location even M13 is not all that bright in an ordinary eyepiece so I'm hoping the tube will show a significant improvement.
This is won't be an Generation 3 quality but it will be better than we think. If it does this good on M42 it will
make a significant difference on say M79{Mag7.7} and say all the way up to mag9 maybe Mag 10?. When looking at Furmo's M42 picture I believe that open clusters like M35 through M38 will fit into the field of view and will be greatly enhanced. I'm really excited. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6359469 - 02/06/14 11:00 AM Attachment (32 downloads)

Hi

I would apologise for the late reply but I'm sure you are probably bored of hearing it!

With regards to the eyepiece - please see the attached photo showing how the eyepiece slots into the holder on the screen end of the cascade tube.

With regards to the extension tube that attaches the cascade tube to the telescope OTA, it actually slotted perfectly around the inner metal ring on the input end (where you attach one of the power wires) which allowed me to superglue it and then secure with duct tape. I have attached a photo of my other tube which I made into a handheld unit so you can see what the inner ring looks like.

Finally, I note you mentioned gain control earlier - both my 8079HP tubes have built in automatic gain so I don't know if any external circuit would just get over-ridden by the internal control. It's a pain as you can't manually bump up the gain, but it does mean that when you accidentally point it at a streetlamp, or turn it on during the day, the tube doesn't get fried!

I hope that is helpful.

Furmo


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6359472 - 02/06/14 11:02 AM Attachment (29 downloads)

And here is the input end of the tube showing the inner metal ring.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Furmo]
      #6361304 - 02/07/14 05:24 AM

Hi everybody, I'm getting conflicting info on the weight
of the 8079HP. I was told that the tube by itself was 2LBS.
Is that true? Thanks Furmo for putting up the pictures. I will be able to put it together now soon as it arrives.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6363364 - 02/08/14 04:39 AM Attachment (23 downloads)

Furmo, Peter, and cuivienor, In my quest to find a better eyepiece I ran into "DIY Cascade Tube Thread"{page 9}under AR15.com. The first picture show an image with a loupe ocular, and the second with PVS-2.
Looking better all the time. De Lorme

Edited by De Lorme (02/08/14 04:46 AM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6363365 - 02/08/14 04:44 AM Attachment (22 downloads)

The picture through the PVS-2. What a difference! This is just great. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6364717 - 02/08/14 07:25 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

Hi Every body, The next 2 pictures shows the 8079HP just before attachment and then after. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6364722 - 02/08/14 07:28 PM Attachment (19 downloads)

And now the one attached.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6364832 - 02/08/14 08:23 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

Hi Everybody, From what I could figure the 8079HP will way around 45.7oz. So I made up a 45.7oz weight to test on my CGEM to see if the mount would move{when installing the intensifier} when having it balanced to my ES 24mm 68degrees. Well{rather nerves} I slew the CR6" rather high then took out the 24mm and put in the 8079hp. I did not move! I put it in and out several times. No movement in DEC!
So I balanced the mount with the 45.7oz weight and slewed rather high and took it out put the 24mm in. No movement in
DEC when taking out the weight and putting in the 24mm. I haven't tried this with the additional weight the PVS-2 would bring. I don't see a problem though. The 2 pictures show my crude weight so you can get an idea of what it looks
like.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6364842 - 02/08/14 08:26 PM Attachment (26 downloads)

The second picture. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6365392 - 02/09/14 03:02 AM

Darn, the top one is what I see.... Nice in the middle only. Tried a 26mm meade plossl but even with cutting and grinding I couldn't make the focal plane come outside it. Hence I am using a 10x loupe lens held in place with blutak. Suggestions for a better eyepiece... Pvs2 looks like its unavailable.

Cheers

Peter


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6365437 - 02/09/14 04:17 AM

Peter, Don't give up. They are there but you have to keep looking. I found one off E-bay in about half an hour.
Just keep looking at the picture taken with the PVS-2 and you won't quit LOL. Isn't the picture amazing and just think
how much better it would be with a Lumicon Deep Sky filter
coupled to a #25. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6366314 - 02/09/14 03:06 PM

Try baader sky moon glow filter

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6366498 - 02/09/14 04:26 PM

Highfnum, I just bought a Antares 2" LPS. The one and only review I could find was very good. What do you think? Just can't afford the 2" Lumicon Deep Sky even used. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6366543 - 02/09/14 04:42 PM

For gen I and gen 2 broadbands work better than narrow band
I don't know antares

But if its for visual use it will help

Gen 3 is more complex


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PEterW
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6366610 - 02/09/14 05:02 PM

? A #25 and deep sky filter will just give you near IR transmission? The deep sky filter allows in some OIII which the #25 blocks? I need to give my CLS-CCD filter a crack.... Just been using the halpha and rg630 so far.

PeterW


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6366974 - 02/09/14 07:34 PM

Peter, I'm basing my stacking the #25 with the Antares is what Starstuff said in the archives "video & electronics for astronomy" forum under "filters & IIE" in that coupled together they took out most of the light pollution while allowing the other light to pass through and much improving
clusters and globulars. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6366997 - 02/09/14 07:43 PM

keep in mine Starstuff is using gen3

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6367646 - 02/10/14 03:30 AM

Highfnum, Ya I know, but trying to bring out the most of the
8079HP. When I thinks about the picture of the trees and Furmos picture of M42{he was using a cheap Celestron 15mm} taken through 8079Hp with the PVS-2 and no filters it gives me hope.
It's the open{like M35,36,37 Ect} and globular clusters{like M79,13,92,52} I'm after which with the filters it's most optimized for. Even though the field of view may be small{maybe 40-42 degrees}I think it will frame the above
open clusters nicely. Like someone said recently the 8079HP
is not a Nagular just a plossi but it at least opens the door to get me really addicted {LOL}. In my light polluted skies I could whine at the government or I can make this affordable intensifier. It could be worse and have no alternative but going to a dark site in the middle of winter. Not me either. There's snow on the ground and very cold. Just the right time to put this together and look toward spring. De Lorme


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Dxvid55
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6372382 - 02/12/14 01:41 PM

Here is a link for the PVS-2 (Varo)eyepiece,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lens-VARO-Night-Vision-Monocular-Eyepiece-Device-/141...


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cuivienor
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6373017 - 02/12/14 07:41 PM

Bam! Ordered. Now I just need to wait for both the eyepiece and the 8079HP! If they arrive by the time I go on a business trip to a dark area of Romania, it will be pure awesomeness there!

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6377935 - 02/15/14 03:10 PM

And here is the eyepiece with rubber shield,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lens-VARO-Night-Vision-Monocular-Eyepiece-Device-Rubb...


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6378640 - 02/15/14 10:12 PM

De Lorme, have you had a chance to try yours out yet?

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6378805 - 02/16/14 12:26 AM

No, I got the intensifier yesterday and had trouble finding
a noise piece that would fit in the grove next to the - post. I had to make one by grounding down the outside so it would fit. One more coat of flat paint and that part is done. The PVS-2 is it's way. I bought a Antares{because the reviews said it was better then the GSO}focus reducer and the Lumicon Deep Sky filter. Have you read what StarStuff said about the Lumicon DS in the archives Video & electronics under "filters for IIE"? It's what made me buy the DS. Although StarStuff is using a GEN3 IIE I think the DS will really help the 8079HP. I should have this done by Monday and will hopefully take a look then IF the weather
cooperates. take a look at Furmos{P3} and Davids{ picture of M42} "image intensifier. BlogSpot.co.uk/{if you haven't already}. It's making me believe that with the added focus
reducer, filter and PVS-2 gobulers will take on a whole new
look. I should have this done by Monday. Hopefully the weather will clear up by then and I will take a look.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6380091 - 02/16/14 09:18 PM

Hi Everbody, I wired the positive and negative and hooked them up to a 4AA on off switch battery box but when I turn it on with the lights off the viewing screen green light comes on but I don't see any image. My connections seem really tight and I checked the batteries and there fine. Any idea why I'm not seeing anything? Plus when holding the battery box I'm getting shocked when it's on.
I don't have a eyepiece attached to it so I wasn't expecting it be clear just wanted to see if it worked.
Any suggestions as to why the viewing screen light turns green but no image? Thanks for the help. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6380225 - 02/16/14 10:49 PM

Furmo, What is the distance of your extender tube from where
it sits in the grove{inside the negative post} to the end?
Thanks for being such a great help with all the picture!
I really appreciate it. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6380495 - 02/17/14 04:21 AM

Hi Everybody, Since I'm using a PVS-2 I'll have to attach
the Antares .5 focus reducer to the end of my 2" diagonal; which has a 2" to 1.25 adaptor. What would be the focus power in this arrangement be? Would it fringe any incoming light? Should I place my Lumicon Deep Sky filter in front or behind the focus reducer? Thanks for the great help.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6382472 - 02/18/14 10:16 AM

Quote:

Hi Everybody, Since I'm using a PVS-2 I'll have to attach
the Antares .5 focus reducer to the end of my 2" diagonal; which has a 2" to 1.25 adaptor. What would be the focus power in this arrangement be? Would it fringe any incoming light? Should I place my Lumicon Deep Sky filter in front or behind the focus reducer? Thanks for the great help.
De Lorme




To estimate the magnification of your setup, divide the focal length of your telescope by 26.7. This will give you the approximate system magnification of your image intensified telescope. The value of 26.7 represents your image intensifier, it is an approximation only, a close one but still an approximation.

To account for a .5x focal reducer, multiply the focal length of your telescope by .5 and then multiply by 26.7.

I'd place the LDS in front of the FR.

Has your setup produced any views as of yet?

ETA:

De Lorme, you should really should consider stopping by modarmory, they are local to you, I think. They do have a store front/retail location off Janitell Road and do gear demos on occasions and as time allows.



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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6382818 - 02/18/14 01:05 PM

thx for calc formula cnot I can use that also

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6382956 - 02/18/14 02:15 PM

Thanks CNOT for the help. I'll check out Modarmory. I was thinking that putting the focuser reducer so far forward in my diagonal that it would vignette. So upon thinking about it I realized that I could try my 2" to 1.25" filter adaptor which is place in my diagonal. I took it out and put it in the tube. It was a
perfect fit! It's about 5/8" away from the screen. Just have to glue it in. I ordered another one from Scope Stuff.
The weather continues to be bad but I will be ready when it clears up. BTW, I had Super Glued the 45oz testing weight
to a piece of 1.25" PVC to see if the Super Glue would hold.
It held when holding it horizontal. I tried to break the bond by hand but couldn't. So I used the Super Glue to attach the tube to the 8079HP. Just need to get some end caps and put foil and then put the Black Gorrila Tape aroud the tube to seal it from the light. Really excited!
I can't wait to try it out. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6383043 - 02/18/14 02:48 PM

Quote:

Thanks CNOT for the help. I'll check out Modarmory. I was thinking that putting the focuser reducer so far forward in my diagonal that it would vignette. So upon thinking about it I realized that I could try my 2" to 1.25" filter adaptor which is place in my diagonal. I took it out and put it in the tube. It was a
perfect fit! It's about 5/8" away from the screen. Just have to glue it in. I ordered another one from Scope Stuff.
The weather continues to be bad but I will be ready when it clears up. BTW, I had Super Glued the 45oz testing weight
to a piece of 1.25" PVC to see if the Super Glue would hold.
It held when holding it horizontal. I tried to break the bond by hand but couldn't. So I used the Super Glue to attach the tube to the 8079HP. Just need to get some end caps and put foil and then put the Black Gorrila Tape aroud the tube to seal it from the light. Really excited!
I can't wait to try it out. De Lorme




De Lorme, Your almost there man, speed it up !

Quote:

thx for calc formula cnot I can use that also




Don't think so at least not if your using the BIPH with an 18mm tube. The panoramic ocular on your BIPH is likely from the KOMZ 1PN50 (BAIGYSH-6U) or similar pano system, in that case the ocular is actually minifying the systems image from what it should be. Normally with the tube you have you could use 27 as your divisor but your ocular messes everything up by minifying the system image i.e. reducing system magnification. This quite literally halves your magnification, just not sure right at the moment what value to place one your BIPH to get a valid divisor. It's looking to be in the area of 40-50 though. You may be able to fill in the blanks since you have a BIPH on hand.

ETA: Panoramic Ocular Picture





Edited by cnoct (02/19/14 01:48 AM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6383161 - 02/18/14 03:53 PM

Thx for heads up

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6383410 - 02/18/14 06:32 PM

What keeps me having a positive out look on the 8079HP are the pictures Furmo and David did of M42. I can only think that globular clusters will be remarkably improved with the addition of a focus reducer, Lumicon Deep Sky Filter and
the PVS-2. By experimenting with other filters perhaps we can find a way to reduce the noise. StarStuff said the Deep Sky helped reduce the noise but to what degree in his Gen3
and the 8079HP is unknown. "Seek and you shall find".
I was seeking and believing and I did find. So I'm going to keep seeking and believing that there are other improvements
that can be made to the 8079HP. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6385719 - 02/19/14 10:45 PM

Hi, Have a slight problem here if you could advise me on I
would appreciate it. I wrapped the 8079HP in aluminum foil
and then covered it with black Gorilla tape. When I turned on the intensifier it started making a high pitch sound and
continued until I turned it off. The reason I put the foil
on was to insure no light would get through. Is the foil
causing the problem?{I would say so}. I don't want to put the intensifier in PVC because of the added weight.
Is the Gorilla tape good enough?{I would think so}
Please give me your advice. Thanks for the help. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6385972 - 02/20/14 02:17 AM

De Lorme, I was reading about the gen 1 cascade tubes and they emit a high pitched noise. It's supposed to be normal. Check out some YouTube vids of gen 1 and gen 1 cascade NV products. You'll hear it in the videos too.

You can read about it here


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6386007 - 02/20/14 03:10 AM

Hi Vondragonnoggin, When I took off the aluminum foil{just to give it a more cushy feel I put 1/8 white rubber shelving
mat on first} and then put on the Gorilla Tape I no longer heard the high pitch sound when turned on. I didn't see any
hint of light coming through the black Gorilla tape when held up to the light bulb. When I attached the battery
case{by rubber band, I tried the Velcro but it' didn't work} I no longer got shocked. By the time the PVS-2 and the rubber eye shield{had a hard time finding the rubber eye shield} the weather should be clear and there will be a lift off! LOL. Any idea what the PVS-2 and the rubber eye shield weights? Right now I'm at 41oz which includes battery
pack and batteries. I'm going to see if the CGEM DEC clutch
holds with this in it tomorrow. I'm hoping I can balance and slew with the ES 24mm 68 degrees in the diagonal and then just take out the 24mm and put the 8079HP in. It worked at 45.7 but with the added eyepiece and shield it might not. But I do have a back up plan. Just not as convenient. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6386009 - 02/20/14 03:12 AM

Put tape on first, then the foil, you don't want to risk shorting the battery. It does whine in operation, normal. Mine gives me little electrical shocks too, bit like one of my jumpers. I need to get out the black paint and light proof the front end.

Cheers

Peter


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6386050 - 02/20/14 04:52 AM Attachment (14 downloads)

Hi Peter, and Vondragonnoggin, I put the foil back on which is now sandwich between 2 Gorilla tapes. The whining came back but not nearly as bad as before. Why does it whine with foil and not without it? Here are a couple of picture.
The second one shows the 2" to 1.25 filter adaptor{from scope stuff}in front of the intensifier. When taking off the cap the filter fits perfectly on the ID{where the threads would ordinarily go} and the OD also. I couldn't believe it when I first inserted it. The focus reducer glass sits between 5/8" and 3/4" from the screen. Is this close enough to achieve focus? I believe so but would rather find out now rather than testing to find out. This is really exciting! I should have rubber band the{Radio Shack}battery box to the intensifier but I forgot. It's just a square box 2.625 x 2.75. Soon I launch. LOL De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6386053 - 02/20/14 04:57 AM Attachment (16 downloads)

The second picture.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6386225 - 02/20/14 08:24 AM

Wow, it came out very good. Very uniform looking.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6386364 - 02/20/14 09:35 AM

I don't know if this was previously posted, but for those following that are absolutely terrified of DIY, but like the possibilities an 8079 cascade tube can offer, they have a kit available here.

The examples people have made here are coming out very good at substantially less cost BUT, if you are one of those people that get messed up using clear tape on a simple project, then there is a more expensive, but available solution.

(De Lorme, your tube is starting to look like this already with tin foil and tape. )


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6386800 - 02/20/14 01:20 PM

Vondragonnoggin and everybody else, This not hard by any means. The hardest part was soldering the wire to the negative post. Once I realized that first be patient and put the soldering iron to the post and let it get hot. This
just takes a minute and then apply the solder. Mine doesn't
look very even going around the ring but it's very strong.
With the positive post I just found a screw{in my mini hardware store in the garage LOL}put a nut on it and then screwed it into the positive post. When it would not go in
any further I rotated the nut down to the base and tightened the nut against the base. Now the screw cannot
be backed out and lose it's connection. The 4AA battery box with a on/off switch I got from Radio Shack for less than $3. I made a quick disconnect. I'll put up some more pictures so you can see just how simple this was. Next I wrapped it in 1/8 rubber shelving{the kind used for the kitchen shelf}to give a cushy fill than taped over it with Gorilla tape. Then put on the aluminum foil and last another layer of Gorilla tape. The last step is to make end
caps so light{and anything else}cannot hit the screens.
I did forget a major step; Making the extender tube.
This was a little trouble finding a tube that was 1.5"OD but thin walled. Thin so it would fit inside the grove next to the screen. I had to take a tube{cut it to approximately 1.25"}and slowly sand down the ID so it would fit the grove.
I did this with my Dremal. But this could easily been done by hand. I had read of someone using Super Glue instead of
Super Hot melt glue of which I had planned to use. Take a look at the picture of the hot melt glue holding the weight.
But I decided to do an experiment to see if the Super glue was better. So I glued a PVC tube 1.5"OD x11" long to the 45.7" weight. It was much stronger. I could have broken the bond but I would have had to use all my strength to do so.
The tube most be level so when applying the Super Glue to the tube it would be most beneficial if you have alignment marks on the tube and the intensifier to make sure it's
level. Mine is level on 2 side but off just a little on the
other 2. If I can do this you can do this. Furmo and David
were a great help with their pictures. If you have any question don't hesitate to ask. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6387300 - 02/20/14 06:08 PM

does P8079Hp from GB ship to US?

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6387406 - 02/20/14 07:14 PM

Quote:

does P8079Hp from GB ship to US?




Says they ship worldwide.

Here's just the tube

The kit will ship worldwide too. Will cost $744.25 including the shipping with today's exchange rate.

That's a substantial savings to make it yourself for $200, or $744.25 of easy if you aren't the DIY type. You'll still need c-mount to 1.25" or 2" adapter.

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (02/20/14 07:22 PM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6387624 - 02/20/14 09:05 PM

Highfnum, Yes they do. I bought mine from Starlight for $143. It took about 2 weeks to get to Colorado. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6387629 - 02/20/14 09:07 PM

thx

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6391115 - 02/22/14 07:41 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

Hi Highfnum and Everybody, I got the PVS-2 today. It fits into the back of the 8079HP rubber slot like a glove. But if
put at even a slight angle it will fall out. So I taped the PVS-2 to the intensifier. The weight I used to test to see if the DEC clutch would move was 45.7oz. After putting on the tube, tape, and battery case{with batteries} the intensifier weighted right at 45oz. At the time I was estimating the total weight I had planned on using either
a Meade 20mm SP or a 15mm Celestron plossi. So with either
the total weight would have been around 47oz. But when I bought the PVS-2 all that changed. With PVS-2 the total weight is now 53oz. Oh Yeah 53oz. So I was a little nerves when I went out side to test it on my CGEM. The CGEM is balanced to my ES 24mm 68 degree eyepiece. When I put the 8079HP into the 2" diagonal there was no movement. Oh Yeah no movement! I did this several times to insure I was not dreaming.
Now I don't plan on slewing with 8079HP but just with ES 24mm. Once I get to where I'm going I'll do a precision
goto and use my Meade 8.8 82 degree{barlowed} to insure an even greater accuracy. The wind is really bad right now.
I rolled of the roof the other night in a attempt to try to use the 8079HP with the 15mm but when trying to do my 4 star alignment the tube was just bouncing all over the place so I stopped. Not surprising for this time of year
Hope to look soon. I cannot wait! De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6391120 - 02/22/14 07:46 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

And the second picture. BTW I'm so glad I bought the MoonLight! It's making using this intensifier possible. Thanks Ron! De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6391327 - 02/22/14 10:03 PM

did you say F8.8 for scope?

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6391375 - 02/22/14 10:43 PM

No, A Meade 8.8 82 degree eyepiece. The scope is a CR6"
refractor. The wind has died down so I'm going out right now
to take a look. I've got hurry I'll report back soon.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6391382 - 02/22/14 10:51 PM

Question - would a .5x reducer work in a scope like C6R? Or maybe reducer/flattener to get better results?

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6391669 - 02/23/14 03:00 AM

Hi Vondragonnoggin, Highfnum and Everybody else.
First the sky was really bad. Very windy and hazy. I looked
at M42 and M37 with and without a focus reducer and a Lumicon Deep Sky filter. I had a Baader 495 LongPass filter
in the front of the diagonal{where it sits permanently}.
The focus reducer greatly reduced the noise. I could see the 4 stars in the trapezium{they
were very bright}but the sky interfered with the nebulosity. I could see many more stars in M37 and they where very bright and pin points of light which I'm sure the Longpass was responsible for. I bought this mainly to look at globular clusters. I tried to view M79 but it had set below the horizon. Even with the bad skies the 8079HP
was better than my ES 24mm with good skies. There were many
more stars and very bright.
The green was there but not nearly as bad as I anticipated.
My focus was really on the M37 and M42 and so the green just seemed to blend into the view. My wife said the green didn't bather her at all. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6391732 - 02/23/14 05:28 AM

Glad you having some success
try to keep f num low


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6392037 - 02/23/14 10:48 AM

Highfnum, I'm using a CR6" f/8 with a Antares 1.25" .5 focus reducer making it a f/4. Do you know of a lower one?
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6392116 - 02/23/14 11:21 AM

Cool. Thanks for that info. I'm planning on a .5 reducer for my 6" F/5 and might use on AT72ED also with IIE. De Lorme, have you ever looked at the spectrum curves of the 8079?

Just curious if the cutoff slope on the IIE itself would take care of 495nm duties your Longpass is doing.



I'm curious because I don't use the Longpass because of yellow views, but with IIE that is a non-issue as it renders green/white. If the tube curves cutoff blue/purple anyway, then no filter needed at all. Then you could regain the 5% transmission also. Not that it is much of a gain, but still might be noticeable on some things at end of resolution levels.

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (02/23/14 11:25 AM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6392276 - 02/23/14 12:36 PM

Vondragonnoggin, I use the Longpass because it makes the stars pinpoints of light. With out the Longpass it's harder to get the stars to focus{pinpoints of light}from the middle to the outer edge.
I think I'm going to have to make an adjustment though.
After slewing to M37 I took out the ES 24MM{11OZ} and put in the 8079HP{53oz}. Because the field of view is 40 degress
as compared to 68 degrees I had to move M37 back to the center of view. When I tried to move it up the mount would
not go{it acted like it was stuck} until I moved it sideways a little and then I could move it up and down.
I'm thinking now to do my alignment with the ES24mm and then turn it off and rebalance with the weight I had made earlier which I will increase from 45oz to 53oz. Then use
my last alignment option on my CGEM and slew to wherever
with the 53oz weight. Then take out the weight and put in the 8079HP and do a precision alignment. When doing a precision alignment the scope doesn't move very far and I
the intensifier should stay completely vertical without any rotation. Of course I'll be standing right next to it just to make sure I don't have a disaster.
The MoonLight is what's making this all possible though.
Right now the CGEM is on a Atlas Pier extender with the legs
extended all the way up to within the last couple of inches.
So in order to look into the viewing screen I rotate the
MoonLight about 45 degrees and tighten the locks on the top and bottom and it holds it there just fine. Just cannot believe just how good the MoonLight is. Yes there is a little more steps to use the 8079HP but well worth it.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6392454 - 02/23/14 02:04 PM

F5 and below is ok

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6392807 - 02/23/14 04:58 PM

Highfnum, Do you know of a focus reducer that would be below
F/4?


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6393614 - 02/24/14 03:09 AM

I know people that stack reducers together
edge performance gets worse


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6394756 - 02/24/14 06:25 PM

Vondragonnoggin, I don't know the spectrum curves. To me the 8079hp is only going to show what the scope reveals.
So I give credit to the LongPass because the stars where like this before the intensifier.
I was out last night and the sky was bad, very hazy but no
wind. The focus reducer really took out the noise. When looking at the Double Cluster with the focus reducer in the field of view was much smaller. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around. With the focus reducer out the noise wasn't that bad. But either way the view was better than the 24mm because of the haze. The 8079hp really brings out the stars that you would not see in the eyepiece. Now as I said before I bought this
primarily for globular clusters. As of yet I've only look at open clusters so for what's it's worth the
Good is; You see many more and much brighter stars with the
8079HP even in a hazy sky. And the bad; the green back ground{which could be one's own taste about it}the 40 degree
field of view and the outer 15-20% is distorted. But this distortion didn't bother me because my focus was on the center which was very good.
I bought the 8079HP to bring in globular clusters that I would not see in my LPS. M79 will be a good test as it's a
10th mag. cluster. There's a lot of globulars that are between 5.5-8mag that the intensifier should really do well
that I can't quit see here. Have to wait and see. Spring will be here soon. Next time out I'm going to focus only on M79. The wind is really bad today but maybe tomorrow or the next. It's that time of year you don't know what to expect
from day to day. BTW M37 with the 24mm was bad and much better with the 8079HP. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6394846 - 02/24/14 07:26 PM

Look forward to hearing more when you get chances to try new objects. Ive been keeping my eye on this thread and some other reports on DIY with gen 1 cascade. Still can get from two places in the UK (EEV) and here in USA, there is the Varo gen 1 cascade stuff. i just saw a tube on ebay for $75, but usually around $100. many tutorials on youtube also. PVC 3" tubes, fast objectives and either Jewelers loupe or low mag eyepiece, sometimes with barrel removed. The project looks fun. I might get a tube and experiment because the cost isn't bad and the effort seems like it wouldn't be too overwhelming. Really the cascade tubes have amazing performance for the money. the distortion i guess is common,as with small FOV too. there are some neat projects with the much larger optical windowed philips (photonis) XX1332 gen 2 tubes. I think I recall 50mm one side and 40mm other side, but a square housing tube. they can still be found online, but more expensive than P8079HP tubes.

This is cool stuff.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6395339 - 02/25/14 12:31 AM

Vondragonnoggin, Yes this is great! I have a round $300 total in the 8079HP. It's well worth the money. I think through time we'll be able to make them better with filters.
I thought the Lumicon Deep Sky Filter was going to help but it didn't. Would a nebula filter help with M42?
I heard a 25{red} is a cheap ha filter. But I haven't tried it yet. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6395528 - 02/25/14 04:33 AM

Xx1322 nice box but
they can cost almost as much as 3 gen


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6395559 - 02/25/14 05:19 AM

Yes. Keeping eye on a grade A ranked used for $2400, while grade C is around $650. The grade C blemishes weren't too bad, but you still want as clean a tube as possible for astronomy. Just watching the sales for curiosity to see what prices bidders can get over the buy it now price.

De Lorme, maybe a 12nm Ha or Baader UHC-S. The UHC-S is more a broadband filter with less steep curves than say a Lumicon UHC.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6395573 - 02/25/14 05:54 AM

Vondragonnoggin, Thanks I'll look into both. I've read that a 9nm and 7nm is good also. Just don't know which would be
the all around good nm filter. Can't buy them all. I've read that the Orion Photographic Skyglow is great but the person was using it on a Gen3 tube. Have you heard anything about this filter? De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6395579 - 02/25/14 06:01 AM

There is a good review here on CN about the Collins I3 piece and using what the reviewer calls "the system". Check it out if you haven't already. It's here.

He was using a Schuler 9nm Ha filter and focal reducer with I3 piece. Looks like a good setup, although that is Gen 3 technology with the Collins piece.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6395586 - 02/25/14 06:05 AM

Vondragonnoggin, I had read other review about the I3 but missed this one. I'll check it tomorrow. Thanks De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6399584 - 02/27/14 05:20 AM

CNOCT, Awhile back on this forum you said that the M17 amber filter helped tone down the light without losing signal and helped with noise. As you know I have the 8079HP. Do you think that an amber filter would
help with globulars on the 8079HP? Thanks for the help.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6399635 - 02/27/14 06:39 AM

amber filer is placed on output side of II
its a old trick to supress some of the noise.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6399637 - 02/27/14 06:40 AM

cnot plz chime in and verify or correct

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6399711 - 02/27/14 08:17 AM

It dims the view and reduces the tiny speckle noise. It helps reduce the damage to your night vision and reduces the wash of green light pouring out the eyepiece. I have tried it and it works, but maybe you lose some of the fainter detail. You find yourself using a form of "averted vision"'to get your brain to average out the random noise present in these systems. Any 1.25" astro orange filter should be fine, cheap.

PeterW


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6399792 - 02/27/14 09:18 AM

Quote:

CNOCT, Awhile back on this forum you said that the M17 amber filter helped tone down the light without losing signal and helped with noise. As you know I have the 8079HP. Do you think that an amber filter would
help with globulars on the 8079HP? Thanks for the help.
De Lorme




The amber filter your referring to was an accessory for the M17 Elbow Telescope (WWII Era). Those filters can be had still, don't know how easily but there is an alternative that's nearly identical and may in fact be identical. Here is where I suggest you look for an Amber Filter, go for the 30mm with a part # of 03492P2. If you do order an amber filter from them make sure you order several, they do tend to be chipped.

Photo of the amber filter from the m17 fitted to the ocular of a Micro Monocular



The amber filter is placed on the output side of the image intensifier either between the ocular and output screen or between the viewers eye and ocular lens. Using one decreases the perceived output brightness of the image intensifier and shifts it more towards the red end of the spectrum. That of course reduces the chance of eyestrain as well as minimizing effects on dark adapted vision and the time needed for the eye to re-adapt. The color shift does seem to help contrast as well so that your better able to see regions and structures that may have lower contrast.

Another effect of using an amber filter is the filters effect on scintillation noise. This noise appears to be white-bright yellow against the background color of the overall scene. The filter has a massive effect on that noise components and gives the impression of a calmer/smoother image. I will stress that I have not tried it with a 8079HP intensifiers but do caution placing one or anything on the output screen of the 8079HP as you might end up with voltage bleed.

Here's a video that may or may not give you a better idea on the use of an amber filter.

Picture of the IMS amber filter used in the video




Unlike the amber filter above, which is placed on the output side to enhance the output image, filters that isolate selective wavelengths to be intensified are placed in front of the photo cathode.

These filters are a means by which the spectral response of the image intensifier can said to be manipulated thereby enhancing its performance under certain conditions and for specific tasks.

Of course the filters aren't actually enhancing performance or altering the spectral response of the image intensifier, they do however cause the intensifier to focus all it intensification energy on selected wavelength to be intensified. So selectively filtering the light reaching the image intensifier focuses the performance as apposed to enhancing it.

Filters, other than an H-a, that may help your intensifier focus and improve your view are likely to be color absorption filters that places like Edmund Optics sell. You can also look for filters such as Hoya R-62 and R-64 or B+W 091 and 092. Hope those options get you pointed in the right direction for enhancing your views through filtration.

Views of globulars are easy to enhance, just filter out sodium and/or mercury spectra which should also help with the shorter wavelengths of airglow as well.

If you do ever make it over to MODArmory check out the difference between night vision with Class "A, B or C" minus blue filtered objectives and those without.

Here are some dirty and poor quality GIF's that may give you an idea what a 9nm H-a does for imaging with image intensifiers.

*the camera was set to B&W, the image intensifier is not of the white phosphor type






And on the Collins I3, don't bother unless you can pick one up super cheap, their are vastly better options available. The housing of the I3 is pretty nice, has that lab equipment appearance and feel which I really do fine appealing but the the ocular just ruined it. Not sure why Mr. Collins chose to have Televue supply modified telescope eyepiece's instead of just using the ocular spec'd, selected and approved by NVESD for use with the 10160 type image intensifier. The modified 25mm Televue ocular and 15mm ocular used on the I3 are great optics for a telescope but not for the unique output of the 10160 type image intensifier. The I3 ocular negatively effected image scale, induced edge distortion by not matching the output curve of the image intensifier and reduced the perceived output bright of the image intensifier i.e. I can't know why the ocular used was chosen but I do know it was not the right one to use.

Collins and Micro Monocular



Collins Ocular next to Ocular from Micro Monocular



Here are two photos that detail the difference in image scale between the Collins and Micro Monocular

Picture below is through Collins I3



Picture below is through Micro Monocular



Another feature of the Collins which I found to be wanting was the on/off power mechanism. The mechanism is crude, especially for an expensive commercial product. The battery cap has two functions, battery retainer and switch (plunger type). To turn the unit on the cap is screwed in till the plunger, built into the cap, engaged both the battery and cap. Not only is it crude but makes it all to easy for the unit to power on accidentally should the plunger not have been fully disengaged i.e. cap screwed out just far enough to turn the unit off but not enough should the cap get bumped or agitated.

The Collins did do one thing well, large scale exposure of image intensifiers for amateur astronomy. I do know image intensifiers were being used for astronomy back in the 60's and probably even farther back but I do believe the Collins really exposed the technology to the larger astronomy community.

Now where the heck are the pictures through your build???


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cj7hawk]
      #6399896 - 02/27/14 10:23 AM

Hi Guys:

I have been following this thread with considerable interest (I have picked up a P8079HP tube to work with), but I do have a request/suggestion.

Could the numerous issues that are being brought up here be posted as separate threads, instead of one long, winding, rambling conversation lasting for years all of which have the same subject line?

This thread has now grown to 150 posts spread over two and a half years.

At least changing the subject line to address specific sub-topics would be most helpful.

It is hard to access the valuable information being aired here, requiring scanning through pages of posts veering off in different directions.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6399899 - 02/27/14 10:27 AM

Wow, you should set up a website providing a guide to using image intensifier tubes for astronomy.

There is so much technical detail to absorb here, and there are scant resources available about it elsewhere.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: careysub]
      #6400158 - 02/27/14 12:55 PM

Yes Collins - the grand Daddy of I3

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6401076 - 02/27/14 11:49 PM

Cnoct, All I did was sand a pvc tube on the ID until it fit
inside the grove next to the screen. Then put Gorilla tape on first and then foil and last another layer of Gorilla
tape. The hardest part was the soldering. I'm sorry I should have taken at least a couple of pictures. It seemed
obvious. OH! I repent.
Thanks for taking the pictures. I can't really see a difference in quality. In being critical I could see a little more detail in the I3{because I was really looking for a difference}in the grass.
I tried taking some pictures of M42 and M37 through my 2000is but I just could not find a way to place the camera on the PVS-2 so they came out really bad
But I now have the rubber eyeshield so this should be manageable. I'll make sure I get some picture of M42, M37
and the double cluster. M79 is low on the horizon so I don't know if I can see it. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6401176 - 02/28/14 01:18 AM

cnoct, BTW the pictures with/without the 9nm are just great!
I think your just to critical.{LOL} Thanks for going through
the trouble. I'm still a repentant. I should have put up some pictures. I'll do better next time. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6403107 - 03/01/14 02:17 AM

Hi Everybody, I have a .5 Antares focus reducer in a 2" to 1.25" filter adaptor. The back of the focus reducer lens is approximately 5/8" from the screen. Would adding a 1" extension tube making it a .3{approximately}restrict the incoming light? After reading a review where it was said that using a Lumicion Deep Sky Filter{with a Gen3 intensifier}it made open and globulars stand out.
So I tried it on my 8079HP with the focus reducer but I just got more noise. So I went back and reread the article and concluded that they
were using there Gen3 at f1.2{I believe}. So my conclusion is I need a faster focus reducer. I'm after globulars so little less field of view
is not a concern to me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6403135 - 03/01/14 03:18 AM

De Lorme,

Prodding you to post pics is just my way of encouraging and congratulating you.

The degraded image quality caused by the GIF generator is what annoys me. The quality of the original photos was just fine.

Reducing or blocking part of the light spectrum will always decrease your SNR. Finding a balance between decreased SNR and enhanced "seeing" is what you after which you may have better luck obtaining by blocking everything below 625-645nm i.e. IR pass filters ( Hoya R-62 and R-64 or B+W 091 and 092 ).

The 8079HP is a capable tube but I think you may be running into the limits of the photo cathodes radiant response. Aside from faster optics and less magnification there may not be much more you can do.

Is the spacing of your focal reducer at the appropriate distance to give you the .5x reduction (47.5mm from photo cathode)?

As mentioned earlier:

Filters that isolate selective wavelengths are a means by which the spectral response of the image intensifier can said to be manipulated thereby enhancing its performance under certain conditions and for specific tasks.

Of course the filters aren't actually enhancing performance or altering the spectral response of the image intensifier, they do however cause the intensifier to focus all it intensification energy on selected wavelength to be intensified. So selectively filtering the light reaching the image intensifier focuses the performance as apposed to enhancing it.

Filters, other than an H-a, that may help your intensifier focus and improve your view are likely to be color absorption filters that places like Edmund Optics sell. You can also look for filters such as Hoya R-62 and R-64 or B+W 091 and 092. Hope those options get you pointed in the right direction for enhancing your views through filtration.

Views of globulars are easy to enhance, just filter out sodium and/or mercury spectra which should also help with the shorter wavelengths of airglow as well.


As for the "Gen3 at f/1.2" it sounds like the device was at unity.

I'm sure you've seen the phenomenal footage on jdbastro's youtube channel which includes several captures of star clusters at fairly high focal ratios (f/9.2).

Here's a couple of direct links:

Sagittarious Globular Clusters

Perseus Double Star Cluster

M22 Globular


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6403198 - 03/01/14 05:35 AM

Cnoct, I'm very pleased with the 8079HP. I'm just trying to make it the best I can. I bought a 25A {= B&W 090} and will buy the 1" extension tube to make the reducer a .3{approximately}. I believe this is the solution. But if I'm
wrong the 8079 with just the reducer is really good.
I read as much as I could find on the 8079HP but no one
said anything about the distance of the photo cathode being
1.87". I still see M42, M37 and NGC 869 in my head.
Globulars are no different than open clusters so I think they will look just as good as the videos but with a
smaller field of view. Although it's only about 40 degrees
it still fits M37 well into view. This Is what I've been praying for and I'm going to do my best to read all I can
and ask questions{hope I'm not to annoying LOL}.
Thanks for help Cnoct and everybody else. This ahs been a real learning experience but well worth the endeavor.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6403200 - 03/01/14 05:41 AM

BTW, To make it clear, I'm going to couple the 25A and the Lumicon Deep Sky with the .3 reducer. I'm expecting really good results on globulars. De Lorme

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6403843 - 03/01/14 01:37 PM

De Lorme,

Your doing everything right as far as I can tell.



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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6403923 - 03/01/14 02:28 PM

Be careful, I have a 0.5x 1.25" and 2" reducers, the larger one gives a hopelessly blurry result, the smaller one is fine. With plenty of extension tubes you can see how far you can push the reducer and still get a crisp result.

PEterW


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6404504 - 03/01/14 07:57 PM

Right now the back of the reducer lens is about 5/8" from
the photo cathode and M37 looks great to about 80% to the edge. Which I think is the maximum capability of the intensifier. But I can easily fit M37 in the field of view.
The place I bought the reducer said nothing about how to space the tube. But I'll give this a try and see what happens. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6404560 - 03/01/14 08:27 PM

I'm having problems with Internet Explore. It keeps bumping me off and I lose what I wrote. So I thought I would make several post to keep this from happing. So Continued; In the video by JDBastro's is the noise I'm seeing caused by the camera? I didn't see this much noise when looking at M37. With the reducer 5/8"{instead of3"} from the photo cathode M37 looks really good from a bad sky.
I'm quite sure it will work nice on globulars with the right
combination of filters{or filter}.
I'm glad I bought the intensifier. It's not perfect{if your
overly critical} but better than the eyepiece.
Snow here but the end is insight. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6404695 - 03/01/14 09:55 PM

Quote:

... So Continued; In the video by JDBastro's is the noise I'm seeing caused by the camera? I didn't see this much noise when looking at M37. With the reducer 5/8"{instead of3"} from the photo cathode M37 looks really good from a bad sky.
I'm quite sure it will work nice on globulars with the right
combination of filters{or filter}.
I'm glad I bought the intensifier. It's not perfect{if your
overly critical} but better than the eyepiece.
Snow here but the end is insight. De Lorme




De Lorme,

The 'noise' that you are asking about is caused by a variety of factors. Most significantly, the speed of the objective lens that the intensifier is looking thru. In the videos that cnoct referenced, the objective is a 250mm aperture f9.2 telescope. The objective focal speed is 'slow' by typical night vision standards. Personally, if I can pull it off, I prefer as large an image scale as possible with as portable / easy to set up objective equipment as possible. I find that my 250mm scope (Takahashi Mewlon ) meets those requirements well.

Other causes of the noise are due to the reduced video bit rate that Youtube supports. My GH3 camera was set to record at the highest bit rate that it supports, which is 50Mbits/ sec. Youtube stores and plays back video at a much lower bit rate. My natively recorded videos show finer detail than what Youtube presents.

Finally, the GH3 camera in general just is not as sensitive as the human eye when looking at the intensifier output. It usually has to be run at a frame rate that is slower than 60 fps in order to capture sufficient detail. A higher frame rate would improve the target signal view in the presence of scintillation noise.

Edited by jdbastro (03/02/14 04:30 PM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: jdbastro]
      #6404874 - 03/01/14 11:54 PM

jdbastro, Thanks for explanation. I'm using the 8079HP in my
CR6". From what I remember the image scale of the globulars
in the video look very similar to M37 in the CR6" with the reducer. The scintillation wasn't that bad, I'm just trying to understand what my alternatives are in taking as much noise out as possible.
I would like a larger image also but was told that the faster the F# the better. I'm going to take off the end of the barlow and attach it to the 8079HP with filters and see what happens.

I'm really glad I put this together. To me it's the answer I've been looking for. I don't understand why other do not see IIE's potential. Thanks for the reply. De Lorme

Edited by De Lorme (03/01/14 11:56 PM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6405086 - 03/02/14 05:53 AM

IE for the most had a price problem
this thread does show a way out
at least to some extent


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6405671 - 03/02/14 01:26 PM

IIE really opened the skies for me, it's too bad the prices aren't much lower, for the high spec tubes. Be forewarned though, it's very addictive,

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: dtripz]
      #6405779 - 03/02/14 02:23 PM

I spent plenty on it

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6405849 - 03/02/14 03:17 PM

The question is do you have a mount that would support the
8079HP? If you do then all is well for about $250.
What does a much bigger scope or a video camera and the hassle of dealing with it cost?
What's the cost{and the gamble} of packing up all your equipment and going to a darker site?
Now I've only looked at a few objects{M42.M37,NGC869}but this is just great. I see very little noise and a green back ground. It doesn't bother me or my wife. So I'm very
grateful. Only wish I had done this sooner. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6405864 - 03/02/14 03:26 PM

I have a 25A red coming for emission nebulas. I already have a Lumicon Deep Sky which I will try with the 25A. Right
now I'm looking for a IR filter for globluars. Does anybody have a any recommendations? I ordered some amber lens to use with the PVS-2. If none of these really make a difference and I just have to use the focus reducer with the 8079hp it's still very good. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6406102 - 03/02/14 05:26 PM

De Lorme your an inspiration
I went and pulled trigger on p8079
do I need this - not really BUT
I got an old fast F1.5 lens
should be a good match


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6406154 - 03/02/14 05:48 PM

During a brief interlude in the monsoon I managed to add some interesting objects to the blog last Friday. The M82 supernova, some other galaxies and a couple of globular clusters.

Have a look at the "Performance" link if you want to see the details.

http://imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6406383 - 03/02/14 07:19 PM

highfnum, Take a look at the pictures Dxvid55 put on
http://imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/ there just great!
I think Cnoct, David and Furmo deserve a round of applause!
I'm going to tell the light pollution forum about Cnoct,
David's and Furmos pictures. Way to go guys! You have made a big difference in reality for me and many others!
So my HIP HIP HURRAH TO YOU GUYS! MARVILOUS, JUST MARVILOUS!
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6407020 - 03/03/14 06:51 AM

Thanks De Lorme. I admire your persistence with the filter question. If you do manage to come up with a good combination for the P8079HP we will all benefit from it.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6407025 - 03/03/14 07:04 AM

David, the pictures look quite promising. My goal was mostly large nebula and both open and globular clusters. I think for the most part, this does very well with the clusters and large nebula. It did very well on a few of those galaxies too. M13 looked great and that was definitely a goal of mine to view better.

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (03/03/14 07:08 AM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6408208 - 03/03/14 08:22 PM

I'm positive were going to blow this wide open{Thanks to you
guys}I got the 1" extender and the 25A red today. Still looking into the IR filter.
Vondragonnoggin, Just think of M2,3,4,5,6,79,10,11,.12,13,14,15,17,18,19,20, and the list just goes on and on. Perhaps DGM galaxy filter might help?
"Seek and you Shall find" This is just great! De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6408698 - 03/04/14 02:22 AM

I use rg630 glass, a 50mm bit can be pursuaded to attach to a 2" filter holder. Blocks visible and let's hydrogen alpha through, but you won't expect it to make them much more visible. It's got a reasonably sharp cut on. Experiment and see what works best, we need to be gentle on this old tech!

PeterW


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: PEterW]
      #6408707 - 03/04/14 02:52 AM

Hi Peter and Everybody, I only had a few minutes tonight
before the clouds rolled end. So I took a quick look at M42 and M37. I took of the end of my Meade Apo 140 barlow and put it on the intensifier. About 25%-30% more nose compared to the focus reducer but still good. I tried the Deep Sky again and it was worse then other two. The sky is really cloudy and hazy. Without the intensifier and looking just through the eyepiece it would have been bad. The weather
will clear up soon. Spring is around the corner. De Lorme
BTW Totally forgot to try the red 25A. I will next time.





De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6418609 - 03/21/14 03:14 AM

Hi Everybody, Sky was very hazy so I wasn't expecting great
results but was pleasantly surprised. First I did all my alignment stars with the 8079HP looking straight through.
As I said before doing the polar alignment really made a difference. I had the focus reducer attached to the 1"
extension tube with the Baader 495 Longpass at the end.
With this set up it was by far the best yet. M35 set back a little bit further and so the field of view{seemed}was bigger but the clarity really came through. M42 was much better also. I asked my wife{RoseMary}
to give her opinion and her conclusion was the same as mine.
Then I used the reducer and the LongPass by themselves on the above objects. Still very good. Then with the barlow which was bad. Probably because the haze was being magnified as well as the objects. Just want to take a moment
and say that{from what I understand about filters}that the LongPass is blocking out the light pollution while letting in most the 8079HP primary light. The primary light of the
8079hp is from 470nm to 660nm.I think Cnocm was the one who said this but I'm not sure because that post isn't here.
The Longpass blocks all light from 0-495 and then lets light
in well past the 660nm. I give the LongPass, reducer, extension tube combination a 10. The LongPass, reducer combo a 7.5{RoseMary said 8} and last the barlow a 3. I haven't given up on the barlow. I just think the sky needs to be much better to give a chance to work.
Your probably tired of hearing this but I can't help my self
This is Just Great! I see such great potential using this on glubulars! The Longpass is the one to buy. If you don't have one buy one ASAP. "Seek Ye Shall Find" De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6418679 - 03/21/14 07:06 AM Attachment (5 downloads)

hey this thing works better than I thought for a g 1
was able to see California, rosette nebula with
7nm ha 2 inch filter
here is what my test rig look like
I will put it with my 6 inch f1.5
but that's to heavy to test with


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6418728 - 03/21/14 08:08 AM

De Lorme,

Yes, the P8097HP has a peak spectral sensitivity (470-660nm). That's only the peak, may not be the most relevant and certainly isn't the only usable range. I only brought the peak sensitivity range up because of its potential relevance when choosing filters. A majority of astronomy filters seem to cut unnecessarily far into the peak spectral sensitivity of the P8097HP. Reference the spectral response for the P8079HP at the bottom of this post and compare the peak spectral response with the spectrographs of various astronomy filters.

Neodymium and Didymium filters (including the Baader Moon and Skyglow) were also suggested as possible options since they seemed to be the most selective filters for eliminating sodium and mercury light pollution. They also seemed a good match for the unique spectral response of the P8079HP image intensifier, at least from the posted results using other filters.

I'm very surprised by you observations with Baader 495 Longpass, it doesn't seem to really be blocking much, at least as far as artificial light pollution I encounter. Then again, light pollution varies drastically depending on the source of the pollution e.g. LED, Mercury, Sodium, incandescent, Halogen, Xenon, Fluorescent, etc... Identify the light pollution spectrum of the specific observing locations and then choose a filter/s based on both the LP spectrum and spectral sensitivity of the image intensifier. Though costly, trial and error may be the only way to find the filter best suited to your tube and viewing environment. It also just as important to know the spectra or spectrum of the objects to be intensified, not just that of the rejected spectra or spectrum.

P8097HP Spectral Response


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6418744 - 03/21/14 08:19 AM

Glad to see you are starting to get good results De Lorme. I would like to make a list of all the filters that work well with the P8079HP and it looks like the Baader Longpass should be on that list. In one of the posts gone missing Cnoct said a Neodymium Filter should also work well. The only one I could find was a Baader one but I noticed it had an "IR Cut"

http://www.company7.com/baader/options/moonskyglow.html

and was wondering if this was bad for intensifiers? Or are there other Neodymium filters without this cut?

I have a few other questions about filters for Cnoct, or anyone else using filters that will work well with the P8079HP. I know there are specialist filters for different nebulae but what would be the best all-round sort of filter, that will cut light pollution but let you see most objects - nebulae, globulars, galaxies? Would the "ideal" filter have exactly the same bandpass graph as the P8079HP, or something else?

On a different subject, but still on the topic of trying to get the best out of the P8079HP. In that thermal noise video you made Cnoct, there did seem to be quite a lot of what looked like scintillation noise at 10'C. Was that caused by the very high temperatures you had just been using? Unless I'm not looking hard enough I haven't noticed that amount of scintillation in the P8079HP.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6418767 - 03/21/14 08:36 AM

oops looks like we posted at the same time. On page 8 of the document you posted it gives a different graph. What does that refer to, is it the peak response you are talking about? Which graph should I be looking at when choosing filters?

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6418780 - 03/21/14 08:47 AM

I would think the Baader Longpass to be more a visual enhancer for cutting out blue zone chromatic aberration. The gen 1 cascade is able to see more than a gen 3 in the same regions affected by chromatic aberration and information smearing by unfocused spectra, so maybe it would still help with gen 1 cascade to sharpen the image in a faster achromat. Particularly if the achromat is being reduced in focal ratio which probably makes for worse CA.

It won't help with light pollution very much though.

On the plus side for the IIE - the Longpass effect of turning stars yellow will be a non issue.

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (03/21/14 08:49 AM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6418811 - 03/21/14 09:03 AM

The light pollution here is that horrible orange glow from streetlights. I think they are the deep orange low pressure sodium ones. But thankfully they are gradually replacing them with lighter orange and more white ones which only shine down. So at the moment I suppose I need some sort of sodium filter?

I was also wondering about filters that might help to block moonlight?


Edited by Dxvid55 (03/21/14 01:42 PM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6419315 - 03/21/14 01:51 PM

The Baader Skyglow looks a good match for the P8079HP and also useful for ordinary viewing as well. But I'm still unsure about statements made about it like this,

"When used with DSLR cameras stars appear much sharper, because the IR spectral range is blocked."

Isn't being able to see IR one of the strengths of an intensifier?


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6419430 - 03/21/14 03:13 PM

highfnum The 7nm ha filters are Really expensive. Do you know of a cheap alternative?
cnoct I thought Light pollution was in the 300nm-500nm range. In "ASTRONOMICAL FILTERS SPECTRAL TRANSMISSION" the Baader Fringe Killer seems like it would work well what do you think? Can you recommend a book on understanding filters and how they work with each other?
Making headway just got to keep at it. The results are what's spurring me on. Just love results! LOL De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6419472 - 03/21/14 03:45 PM

De Lorme - excellent to hear you like the results!

I looked for cheaper alternatives to H-Alpha 7nm, but the narrower the filter, the more expensive. I bought a Baader 7nm, but the Orion is about $20 less and same 7nm transmission.

If trying to save, maybe used market is the best resource.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6419705 - 03/21/14 05:59 PM

De Lorme this is the one I use as seen in picture
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Optical-FIlter-Astronomy-656-3-nm-Hydrogen-Alpha-2-in...


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6420124 - 03/21/14 09:56 PM

Thanks highfnum But still to expensive right now. Can you suggest any other filters that would enhance globulars?
There is tomorrow and the day after if need be.LOL
Thanks, De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6420264 - 03/21/14 11:38 PM Attachment (6 downloads)

globs do not need ha filters they need nahg (sodium- mercury reject) BTW I attempted to take shot thru p8079hp

with h-alpha shot sucks - I used tape! so its out of focus
but blob near middle is rosette shot was only 3 tenths of a second! it proves gen 1 can do Ha


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6420271 - 03/21/14 11:41 PM

here is link to nahg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Optical-Filter-Astronomy-Na-Hg-Skylight-Reject-48mm-/...


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6420458 - 03/22/14 03:41 AM

Thanks highfnum , I may be able to swing this one. I really appreciate the help highfnum. De Lorme

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      #6421188 - 03/07/14 02:22 PM

Hi everybody, Well I've been concerned about the  weight issue with the 8079HP. If did a 4 star alignment and put the intensifier
in the diagonal after going to a few objects my goto's would start
to be off. So after much thinking about this I decided to do my
alignment with the ES 24mm. Then look all the objects I wanted with it and then do a "Set mount position". It's where you align
on a star press enter rebalance and then press enter again.
The weight deferential was just to much and I couldn't find a way to compensate. In testing the position here's a picture of the most extreme position I would be sitting in. I'm very comfortable.
 


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      #6421189 - 03/07/14 02:38 PM

Lying on a bench looking up.... Perfect position to surf along the Milky Way!

Peter


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      #6421190 - 03/08/14 03:08 PM

De Lorme
 
I just got my p8079HP  - big sucker
I got a 6 inch f1.5  SCT that was made for that tube
I was going to use it for another project
but focus is immutable
so I will remarry lens with original tube is was made for
 
ah - a marriage made in heaven
 
 


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      #6421191 - 03/09/14 04:07 AM

highfnum  Where in the world did you find the 6" SCT F1.5 lens? I remember seeing something
similar on Surplus Shed web site awhile back.  Are you going to mount it on a GOTO mount?
I wasn't expecting the weather to be clear tonight so I just look at the Moon through the eyepiece.
But tomorrow I'll be ready! M79 is probably to low But NGC 2419{10th mag}is high in the sky.
"Seek Ye Shall Find" De Lorme
 


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      #6421192 - 03/09/14 05:33 AM

no its not the SS lens which is f1.2 refractor
I got this on ebay a while back
 
this is an SCT 
 
I tested last night  - very bright image
 
heavy to hold  (7 lbs) so I got vixen mount type bar
 


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      #6421193 - 03/09/14 02:37 PM

highfnum,
 
The SCT you've coupled to the p8079hp is quite a nice lens, should make for a very nice setup.
 
I thought Allen over at STANO Components http://www.night-vision.com/parts_pg2.html had a number of them up on Ebay a few years back as well as his website. The website doesn't seem to list them anymore but for anyone interested in a really good lens for the p8070hp might try contacting STANO.
 
My only gripe about the lens was that the image plane wasn't compatible with glass input tubes. 
 
Another really good objective lens to track down would be one from a AN/TVS-4 but that's for a 40mm version of the p8079hp. The complete systems come up from time to time and can be pretty reasonable. I believe Tom Lyons of Outer Edge Optics http://www.nvmods.com has quite a few systems and parts though he can be a bit expensive when it comes to those particular parts and systems. He's also got quite a large stock of  rare NV parts, lenses, tubes etc... 
 
For those with the p8079hp (triple cascade), here's a pretty cool video that briefly talks about it, the info starts at around the 1:45 minute mark.
 

 
De Lorme,
 
Just wait till the Milky Way gets into position, I'm afraid you'll end up with a bad case of insomnia this summer.
 
If your interested, MODArmory is hosting a night vision event were you can check out different system, might be worth your time and $15 to check it out.
 

 
or there's a free one indoors (not sure the value of this one though it is free)
 



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      #6421194 - 03/09/14 03:54 PM

That
video was great !!!!
 
cnoct - I was quite surprised  at  HP performance
its a beast weight wise but it works
you seem to have a good working knowledge of NV stuff
did you ever work with  or sell NV stuff ?


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      #6421195 - 03/09/14 04:53 PM

cnoct I'll check out the Night Vision Demo. Tonight  it's supposed to be clear and I'm going to ready.
Really excited! Even though the moon is out I hope to bring in NGC2419. A 10th  mag. globular!  It's high in the sky here.  I'm going to try M79 first though but expecting it to sit to low in the sky.
OH! The anticipation of the launch!  I'm wondering how well the 25A is going to perform?
I think in my minds eye the 8079HP is under rated.  I see  David's review {back yard astronomy}
and picture of M13 in my head.  Last night I put in a Celestron 15mm FMC plossi eyepiece in the diagonal to compare it to my ES 24mm 68degre. I took off the end of the barlow and put it on directly to the 24mm making it a 16mm. Although the field of view was smaller it was still very good.
To me the 8079HP is a plossi. It won't have the clarity or larger field of view of more expensive eyepieces but it will show me the sky. I'm so grateful to have this. In a year or so I'll be able to move up.  I've found that the rubber eyeshield restricts the field of view for me because of it sitting
further back from the eyepiece. Being right up next to the eyepiece is so much better.
THE COUNT DOWN IS ON,  FINAL CHECKS HAVE BEEN MADE. ALL SYSTEMS ARE A GO!
IT'S 5HRS 10MIN UNTIL LAUNCH! LOL De Lorme
 
 


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      #6421196 - 03/09/14 06:56 PM

Can't wait to hear what you think tonight. 
 
Cnoct - that was a cool video on history of NV.
 
 


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      #6421197 - 03/09/14 10:04 PM

Yes that was a cool video. Takes me back a long time.
 
Well, We have a delay here at Nasa.{Lormie Land LOL}Weather is starting to turn foul. Clouds  have moved in with lite rain. Will advise when Saturn V will launch. LOL
 
According to the Clear Dark Skies it was going to be clear tonight. But this is Colorado weather
so you can never tell what's going to happen. Last night it was supposed to cloudy but it was clear.
I guess I better take my helmet off {LOL}. De Lorme


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Dxvid55
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      #6421198 - 03/14/14 09:51 AM

Last Wednesday night I did a comparative test of several different types of filters (broadband,narrowband,colours, Moon) on M42 under poor seeing conditions.  The results more or less confirm what several people have been saying about filters used with intensifiers.  You can see the test under the new "Filters" link in the blog.

http://imageintensifier.blogspot.co.uk/


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      #6421199 - 03/14/14 11:41 AM

If I except the primrose that the 8079HP is what it is than I'll stop looking for solutions. That's not going to happen. On CN 9/5/2011 Doug was telling a person the solution for reducing noise on there Gen3 tube:
"CNOCT is focused on the specs of the image intensifier which has absolutely nothing to do with the scintillation you are experiencing.  You are using a very high F number scope which is the cause of the scintillation and the solution is to use as much focal reduction as possible.
If you put a spacer between the focal reducer and the nosepiece, you will push the focal reducer out further from the photocathode which will increase the strength of the reducer and will drastically reduce the amount of scintillation.  The further out you move the reducer, the stronger it will be.  The image will continue to improve as you push the reducer out further and further.
You need to increase the power of the reducer to reduce the scintillation and moving it further out will increase its power".
 
I bought a 1" extender and put the reducer on the end but ran out of in focus on the MoonLight focuser. At the time I had my diagonal in the set up. Since I'll be looking straight
through I 'll have enough room.  I think taking the noise out first the filters will perform better. How much better I don't know but I'm anxious to find out. The weather is acting up again so it will be a few more days. Never give up. Patience is what's needed here. We are finding solutions but we must continue to look. Launch has been delayed indefinitely.{LOL} De Lorme
 
 


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      #6421200 - 03/14/14 12:44 PM

I have an f10 scope but don't have any major issues with scintillation (little white flashes, different from noise in general - mostly little green specks).  There is some, but quite a small amount and nothing very distracting.  Whether a reducer will decrease what there is still further must remember to check next chance I get.


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      #6421201 - 03/14/14 01:03 PM

Star visibility won't be too affected by f ratio, but nebula visibility will, favouring the shortest possible.

PEterW


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      #6421202 - 03/14/14 01:27 PM

Hi David, Well I'm willing to try just about anything that's within reason. I do know that
without the focus reducer I have lots of noise which is to me scintillation. I could be wrong, won't be the first time. To me this a process of elimination to find out what works and what
doesn't. It's hard to find information on the 8079HP so I guess will just have to try things
to find out. I already have the 1" extension and to me Doug is pointing that's the way to go.
I keep seeing your picture and your review on M13 which keeps me looking and not to accept
the tube the way it is. I've also read numerous times that the 8079HP has been said that it's
as good or better than some Gen.2 and early Gen.3 tubes. I don't have any experience to compare the 3 so like going to the doc I just stick out my tonged and do what he says.LOL
By evaluating the improvements so far {and failures which to me are inconclusive}I think we should not come to any real conclusion but just press on.  I'm confident will find answers but we must be willing to look even if there seems to be no answers. "Seek Ye Shall Find"
De Lorme


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      #6421203 - 03/14/14 01:46 PM

http://www.cloudynights.com/to...eyepiece-suggestions
Read the whole review, it's to long to put here. James says about halfway down in his opening statement that he's been using a .5 reducer from the beginning on his 11" SCT. De Lorme
 


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      #6421204 - 03/15/14 08:16 AM

Vondragonnoggin
 
so you made a home made gen 3 unit?
 
im confused from topic heading
 


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      #6421205 - 03/15/14 08:24 AM

I deleted my posts. I'll put them in my thread. Thanks. Sorry to confuse you. No, I didn't make a homemade gen 3. I patched together parts to make a gen 3 unit I like.


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      #6421206 - 03/15/14 01:14 PM

Many of the photos on the blog were taken at f20, ie an f10 scope with 2x barlow.  This works really well with the brighter Messier objects, it darkens the background and gives a more magnified view.  (The photo of the Moon was taken at f40, ie 2 stacked barlows).  I only recently bought a 0.5 reducer, unfortunately after Andromeda went behind my house, and haven't used it much yet.  But will give it a try on the fainter and larger targets.


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      #6421207 - 03/17/14 09:38 AM

I'm having a hard time understanding what Bob and Doug are talking about in that thread you linked De Lorme, unless it is something specific to the gen 3 intensifiers they are using.  With the P8079HP high f numbers don't increase the noise, in fact just the opposite, especially with relatively small and bright objects such as M42 and M13, high f numbers decrease the noise.  And the poster has already told them that he is using a reducer.  From his first post I would guess that the real problem is light pollution and if this is the case won't a reducer just amplify the problem?  If it is light pollution then the only way around that is to use filters or move to a darker site.


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      #6421208 - 03/17/14 11:16 AM

With the P8079HP high f numbers don't increase the noise, in fact just the opposite, especially with relatively small and bright objects such as M42 and M13, high f numbers decrease the noise. 
 
really ??  thats differenet for sure 
I will have to try this


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      #6421209 - 03/17/14 12:33 PM

Hi Vondragonnoggin, sorry you moved your posts, intensified astronomy is interesting whatever the cost.  Can you post a link to your thread please?
 
I'm wondering if the reduction in noise seen when using reducers is similar to the effect I get when switching from the higher magnification of a 26mm plossl to the lower magnification of a loupe, (about half the magnification of the plossl)?  With the plossl the background noise is seen as little green specks, but with the loupe they are too small to be seen individually and show as a more uniform grey-green background.  The noise hasn't gone away, it just looks different.  This should be fine for larger objects like M31 or the larger nebulae, but many DSOs are much smaller than these and the image will be too small to view comfortably.  And if light pollution is present the grey-green background will become a brighter green-grey background, reducing the contrast of an already small target.


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      #6421210 - 03/17/14 01:34 PM

"really ??  thats differenet for sure"
 
Why is it different?  The same thing happens when using a barlow in ordinary viewing.


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      #6421211 - 03/17/14 02:31 PM

not same as user looking 
higher fnum causes photon starvation
gain goes up
more noise
 


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      #6421212 - 03/17/14 04:53 PM

The 2 to 3 times I've been out the sky was either hazy, windy or both.  When I didn't use the focus reducer I got a lot more noise and when I did the view was much better.  I know Doug
was using a Gen 3 but there has to some similarity. It's a process of pain OH! I mean elimination. {LOL}  Although Doug and just about everybody else is using a Gen3 but I'm going to follow there advice and use the 1" extender with the focus reducer. It will either get better or worse. I think it will get better. I'll place it on the adaptor which sits on the photocade tube. This will extend the focus reducer about 1 5/8" from the Photocade screen. Because I won't be using a diagonal but looking straight through I should be able to come to focus. There's nothing bad about being wrong but there's a lot bad about doing nothing. Because of the sky being so bad I'm going to wait until I know that it's at least fair before I try the Deep Sky and the 25A red again  I'm very glad I bought the 8079HP and I'm still very optimistic that it can be made better. De Lorme


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      #6421213 - 03/17/14 05:06 PM

Question: Is it possible that I would lose light by the reducer being further out? And how would I be able to tell? Thanks for answering. De Lorme


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De Lorme
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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421214 - 03/18/14 01:42 AM

Another question, I've read by keeping the 8079HP in a cool place it would perform better.
If it was possible{by an outside source}how cold would the 8079HP have to get before I would
see improved performance? Thanks again for contributing your brain on this one.{LOL}
De Lorme


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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421215 - 03/18/14 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dxvid55:Hi Vondragonnoggin, sorry you moved your posts, intensified astronomy is interesting whatever the cost.  Can you post a link to your thread please?
 
I'm wondering if the reduction in noise seen when using reducers is similar to the effect I get when switching from the higher magnification of a 26mm plossl to the lower magnification of a loupe, (about half the magnification of the plossl)?  With the plossl the background noise is seen as little green specks, but with the loupe they are too small to be seen individually and show as a more uniform grey-green background.  The noise hasn't gone away, it just looks different.  This should be fine for larger objects like M31 or the larger nebulae, but many DSOs are much smaller than these and the image will be too small to view comfortably.  And if light pollution is present the grey-green background will become a brighter green-grey background, reducing the contrast of an already small target.
David,
 
  I put my impressions of my gen 3 device in my thread with BIPH in the title. I'm kinda sharing the excitement here of users like De Lorme and yourself since this IIE use is new to me. I understand that some people might confuse my descriptions with gen 1 cascade tube descriptions. Probably better to keep it out of this thread anyway, but from the pics you posted and reports from people, it seems the views are similar to a great extent. The cascade tube results look excellent. I'm using lower spec gen 3 tubes similar to Omni IV specs and getting amazing results (As opposed to using Ultra type tubes with very high S/N of 28-30 and low low EBI). My tubes are good performers for being older tubes and not P and up designations for specs. S/N of about 20-22, 64 LP/mm resolution, EBI of less than 2.5. 
 
The background noise and scintillations are present with F/6 and up and use of 7nm H-Alpha, but actual nebula views are bright enough to combat the scintillations and noise (drastically reduced compared to black space background) on the actual object and great detail is seen.
 
i'll keep posting results there (BIPH thread) or in a new thread. I was going to build one of these, but now have run out of money temporarily. The build looks fun and hope it's not frustrating to people that are building one. Some interesting end results on home builds, but looks like good results. 


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Dxvid55
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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421216 - 03/18/14 09:30 AM

"higher fnum causes photon starvation"
 
That's the part I don't understand.  Photon starvation will only happen if the target is fainter than the background skyglow and except in areas of high light pollution that will only happen with very faint objects.  And if it is below the background skyglow putting a reducer on it won't help as it will amplify the skyglow as well.  It seems to me there would be more chance of seeing it with a barlow which, like in ordinary viewing, darkens the background rather than brightening it.  (BTW the P8079HP has Automatic Brightness Control which is designed to give it "flash protection" in battlefield conditions, but except in those extreme conditions I don't think the gain or SNR changes).  The biggest single factor that is going to effect performance is light pollution.  This was brought home to me last week doing the filter test for the blog.  At limiting magnitude 2 (what many inner city dwellers have to put up with) I could only see a tiny fraction of what I can see at the normal magnitude of 4 or higher.


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Dxvid55
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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421217 - 03/18/14 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by De Lorme:Another question, I've read by keeping the 8079HP in a cool place it would perform better.
If it was possible{by an outside source}how cold would the 8079HP have to get before I would
see improved performance? Thanks again for contributing your brain on this one.{LOL}
De Lorme
In the winter just keep it in an unheated garage or outbuilding, that will make a difference from keeping it indoors.  I'm expecting decreased performance in the summer though with warmer weather and longer twilight.  Artificial cooling (put it in the fridge?) sounds like a good idea, but might introduce condensation - water and high voltage?!


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highfnum
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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421218 - 03/18/14 10:25 AM

cnoct or jbastro I dont remember
put up videos on what temperture does to noise
 
maybe they will place links for you
 
 


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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421219 - 03/18/14 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by highfnum:not same as user looking 
higher fnum causes photon starvation
gain goes up
more noise
 
Just noticed your tag "highfnum" lol! 
 
The term "photon starvation" is a misnomer in this context and quite misleading.  The noise the OP was complaining about is caused by photons.  He is suffering from too many photons not too few!  If you literally starve the tube of photons, put it in a dark room and cover the objective with aluminium foil, the screen stays dark, except for an occasional white scintillation flash.  No increase in  gain, no increase in noise, just a dark screen.
 
 


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Dxvid55
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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421220 - 03/18/14 01:05 PM

Here is the link about thermal (not photon) noise,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7qZd2dG8uI
 
Whilst there is a big decrease there is still a lot of noise at 10'C.  The P8079HP I have doesn't show anything like that, at least up to 22'C.  Taking it outside to about 2'C there did seem to be a decrease in the photon/thermal noise after an hour or so, but only very slight, perhaps a fraction of a degree, although maybe the difference between seeing and not seeing a faint object.


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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421221 - 03/18/14 10:48 PM

finally got to test that p8079hp
to my surprise I WAS able to see barnards loop , rosette  with 7nm Ha filter
image had lts of  noise  but no question they were there
this device should work well with globs, clusters  if you can deal with weight
 
 


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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421222 - 03/19/14 12:29 AM

Hi Everybody, Question, I took off the end of my barlow{Meade Apo 140}and put it at the end of the photo cade. Since the Meade isn't threaded for filters could I take of the end of another barlow which is threaded on both sides and by coupling the 2 together would I get distortion? 
 David, I found reusable cooling packs for the wrist.  There 2 for $8 with free shipping.
The actual cooling area is 6"L X 2.5" W and with the attaching strap the total is 17".
I think I'll  try it. If it doesn't work I have cooling packs for my bad ankle or my wife's
wrist{LOL}.
highfnum, I'm going to view with the 8079 straight through. Since I did a Polar alignment on my Cgem I'm confident that I can place my guide stars within the 40 degree field of view. 
Take a look of the picture of me trying the worst sitting position. I felt real comfortable.
Weather bad here. No  launch date yet. But soon very soon{LOL} De Lorme
 


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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421223 - 03/19/14 12:38 AM

highfnum I'm so glad you could see Barnards Loop and the Rosetta! Such good news. What's a good alternative to a true 7nm ha filter? Thanks De Lorme


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DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new
      #6421224 - 03/19/14 02:19 PM

Taking it a page or two back for all those using the P8079HP. There has been mention of filters and which filters might work well with the P8079HP. I've noticed that most of the filters tried so far don't follow the spectral response for this tube. Most filters being used seem to be blocking the very portion of the spectrum the the tube is most sensitive to (470nm - 660nm). There are a couple types of filters you all might want to look into, those would be neodymium and didymium filters. Glass blowers, potters and even light bulb manufactures use these to block the sodium emission lines. Check out this incandescent light bulb and how neodymium is used to change the  emission spectrum: http://www.theodoregray.com/pe...060.7/index.s15.html
 
 


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Dxvid55
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6423178 - 03/22/14 05:29 PM

Took the plunge and bought a 2" Baader Neodymium today. Actually not that big a plunge as it's a half-price second hand one which the shop describes as in perfect condition and is also the earlier version without the IR cut. This is probably something to be aware of as most shops are selling the newer UV/IR cut version and the response is quite different, as can be compared from this page,

http://carlostapia.es/curvas_filtros/baader_neodymium_IR_cut.html

Anyway will add it to the filters section of the blog when I've spent some time with it.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6424406 - 03/23/14 11:01 AM

I want to work out the True Field of View of the P8079HP, but my maths isn't always great (and I'm not certain about the FL or ApFOV) so someone can correct the calculation if it is wrong. I read somewhere that the Focal Length is 26.7mm and someone else said the Apparent Field ov View is 40 degrees. Don't know how to verify this but it sounds about right as the view is similar to a 26mm plossl. My scope is an SCT with FL=2032mm.
EpMag = ScopeFL divided by EpFL. So P8079HP mag is 2032 divided by 26.7 = 76.10
TrueFOV = ApparentFOV divided by Mag. which gives result in % of degree or (x60) seconds of arc. So TrueFOV of P8079HP is 40 divided by 76 = 0.52 of a degree, or 32 secs, (about same as full Moon which is 0.5 of a degree or 30 secs.)
If using a 0.5 reducer the TrueFOV will be 1.04 of a degree or 64 secs, (about two full Moons).
And if using a 2x barlow the TrueFOV will be 0.26 of a degree or 16 secs, (about half a full Moon).
If you have the FL of your scope in mm you can do the same calculation and find which objects will fit different magnifications.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6425250 - 03/23/14 07:32 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Optical Filter, Astronomy Na & Hg skylight reject, 62mm
David, Take a look at the above filter. I think it would be better than the Moon & Skyglow ; what do you think? This filter comes in both the 2" and 1.25.
Would the Baader 495 LongPass interfere with the Na & Hg rejection filter? "Seek and You Shall Find" Thanks De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6425335 - 03/23/14 08:24 PM

David, You might want to double check your filter. Because
I found a 1.25 M&SG which had the model #245835 and on EyepieceEct.com it show the spectrum cure of which from 725nm to 1175nm the light was cut off. While #there's another model #245835A which also cuts the light from 725nm
to 1175nm. Are you sure there's a no IR M&SG filter?
The person I was going to buy it from said there was no indication of it being an IR filter or not. He said that he
could only find the model number. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6425976 - 03/24/14 06:59 AM

i did some more test with this tube
it is very capable
I was able to see north american nebula and complex around
gamma cygni

I used h-a filter from omega optical

I also go a much better eyepiece 2 inch

hope to take pictures soon


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Dxvid55
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6426674 - 03/24/14 02:45 PM

Quote:

David, You might want to double check your filter. Because
I found a 1.25 M&SG which had the model #245835 and on EyepieceEct.com it show the spectrum cure of which from 725nm to 1175nm the light was cut off. While #there's another model #245835A which also cuts the light from 725nm
to 1175nm. Are you sure there's a no IR M&SG filter?
The person I was going to buy it from said there was no indication of it being an IR filter or not. He said that he
could only find the model number. De Lorme




Here is the bandpass for the Baader Neodymium,

http://carlostapia.es/curvas_filtros/baader_neo.html

and here for the Baader Neodymium IR cut

http://carlostapia.es/curvas_filtros/baader_neodymium_IR_cut.html

I'm not a great user of filters, prefer to do without if possible. But was also looking for a general purpose broadband to replace the Celestron LPR which is a pain to use as it's the visual-back kind.

BTW got quite a nice shot of M3 on the blog last night,


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6427427 - 03/24/14 09:58 PM Attachment (5 downloads)

I tried hand held shot of rosette with this tube
out of focus but does show how bright Haject is with a gen 1
much better than I thought
shot does no justice to visual view
I gotta build some sort of camera rig
don't laugh - you try to HAND hold camera
in sub freezing weather next to eyepiece


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6427832 - 03/25/14 04:01 AM

Hi Everybody, I took a look at M3 tonight with the 8079HP. The Sky was real hazy but the 8079HP made all the difference. The best view was with barlow removed and put directly onto the 8079HP with the LongPass behind it. I could see many stars all around the nucleus but could not penetrate through M3. But still was very good. This is the best I've seen M3 since I've been looking up. I can't wait for the weather to improve. Just to get an comparison I barlowed the ES 24mm 68 degrees and could see that M3 was
there but it was just a haze. I'm so glad I bought the 8079HP. Really look forward to spring and summer.
BTW, When pulling my head back a bit I was able to use both
eyes when looking through the PVS-2 eyepiece. Was much better. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6428020 - 03/25/14 08:43 AM

Quote:


don't laugh - you try to HAND hold camera
in sub freezing weather next to eyepiece




Lol! It gets easier with practice!

The nebula does look bright. What kind of limiting magnitude do you have at your site?
Have you tried the intensifier on a scope yet?

Edited by Dxvid55 (03/25/14 10:17 AM)


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6428330 - 03/25/14 11:51 AM

about 5.5 on a good night

not yet soon


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6428419 - 03/25/14 12:44 PM

Quote:

David, You might want to double check your filter. Because
I found a 1.25 M&SG which had the model #245835 and on EyepieceEct.com it show the spectrum cure of which from 725nm to 1175nm the light was cut off. While #there's another model #245835A which also cuts the light from 725nm
to 1175nm. Are you sure there's a no IR M&SG filter?
The person I was going to buy it from said there was no indication of it being an IR filter or not. He said that he
could only find the model number. De Lorme




The Baader Neodymium came today, it's in perfect condition, not a mark on the glass or the ring and in original case/pack, I'm very pleased with it!

The serial is #2458334 (or #2458305 for 1.25)
Think the serial for the 2" UV/IR Cut is #2458334A

Also I think Baader only recommend these for reflectors and true apochromatics. For other refractors they recommend the "Contrast Booster", (2" - #2458365, 1.25 - #2458360,) which is similar but has a UV block,

http://carlostapia.es/curvas_filtros/baader_CB.html

Re the #245835 someone asked about it in CN archive

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2489609/page...

Looks like Baader missed a zero when printing the filters, or they used different serials for the USA.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6428747 - 03/25/14 04:34 PM

Quote:

I want to work out the True Field of View of the P8079HP, but my maths isn't always great (and I'm not certain about the FL or ApFOV) so someone can correct the calculation if it is wrong. I read somewhere that the Focal Length is 26.7mm and someone else said the Apparent Field ov View is 40 degrees. Don't know how to verify this but it sounds about right as the view is similar to a 26mm plossl. My scope is an SCT with FL=2032mm.
EpMag = ScopeFL divided by EpFL. So P8079HP mag is 2032 divided by 26.7 = 76.10
TrueFOV = ApparentFOV divided by Mag. which gives result in % of degree or (x60) seconds of arc. So TrueFOV of P8079HP is 40 divided by 76 = 0.52 of a degree, or 32 secs, (about same as full Moon which is 0.5 of a degree or 30 secs.)
If using a 0.5 reducer the TrueFOV will be 1.04 of a degree or 64 secs, (about two full Moons).
And if using a 2x barlow the TrueFOV will be 0.26 of a degree or 16 secs, (about half a full Moon).
If you have the FL of your scope in mm you can do the same calculation and find which objects will fit different magnifications.






Calculating magnification for the P8079HP:

26.7mm is a very close approximation of the focal length required to produce unity magnification (1x) with the P8079HP image intensifier.

So if an objective lens assembly with a FL of 26.7mm is used with the P8079HP, the magnification will be 1x. To calculate magnification for optical assemblies with a FL greater than 26.7, simply divide the optical assemblies focal length by 26.7

Calculating FOV ( in arcminutes ) for the P8079HP:

Diameter of the P8079HP photo cathode x 135.3 / Focal Length of telescope in inches = FOV in arcminutes

To find FOV in degrees, divide FOV in arcminutes by 60.

To use your telescope and image intensifier as an example:

Diameter of P8079HP photo cathode = 25mm

Focal length of telescope = 80 inches

Step 1 - 25 x 135.3 = 3382.5

Step 2 - 3382.5/80 = 42 arc minutes

Step 3 - 42/60 = 0.7 degrees

So your system has a FOV of .7 degrees

*An image intensifier is closer to a CCD/CMOS camera than it is to an EP. Unlike an EP most image intensified systems don't actually have an exit pupil, an example of a system that does have an exit pupil is the PVS-7 models. Most image intensifier are going to be 1:1 systems where no magnification occurs between the input (photocathode) and output (phosphor screen and fiber optic output), with the exception being the magnification of the output image by the ocular lens.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6429782 - 03/26/14 08:08 AM

Thanks, that's great, I've made a note of the calculation. The FOV is better than the 0.5 I thought it was.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6431775 - 03/27/14 07:02 AM

did more obsevations with this tube in morning
able to see north american complex
m17 m16 the lagoon and trifid
very happy with this tube
just gotta figure how to take some good photos


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6432165 - 03/27/14 11:56 AM

They sound like great results, would love to see any photos, can you mount it on a tripod or home-made support?

Never had much luck with the Sagittarius nebulae as they are low to the South and in area of worst light pollution from here. Hoping for better this year with the intensifier and Baader filter.

BTW compared the Baader hand-held with the LPR last night on low cloud which is faint orange to zenith. They both took away the orange but the Baader is far brighter. Could see detail in distant buildings that was invisible in the LPR. It should work very well with the intensifier.


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6433267 - 03/27/14 09:08 PM Attachment (6 downloads)

finally figured a way to take clear shots

afocal c-mount camera attached to eyepiece
inside test shot
of course
clouds rolling in to deny me my fruits of this labor!


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6435484 - 03/29/14 01:52 AM

David55, Which Baader filter did you compare to the LPR?
I've been comparing different filters spectrum curves and
can't decide which way to go. In comparing different looks
at M13{the other night}the best was just using the focus reducer by itself. The sky was still bad so wasn't surprised that using the barlow didn't turn out as good as I hoped. BTW M13 was great! Best ever seen since I've been looking up. I removed some colored filters from there holders{that I wasn't using}so I can use the ring with the barlow and focus reducer in smaller increments. I really look forward to spring and summer. Having a great time and the best is yet to come. De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6435487 - 03/29/14 02:02 AM

Sorry David55, I found it.

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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6440573 - 03/31/14 10:38 PM

I finally got some decent shots thru this device
I wish to thank c7jhawk and De Lorme for heads up on this
one - I was raised that gen 1 was useless
not in this case!


http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6440546/page...


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6440659 - 03/31/14 11:42 PM

This is just Great! The best is Yet to Come! Highfnum do you think a 12nm Ha is the way to go and which manufacturer?
I'm so glad I bought the 8079HP. It's rejuvenated me looking up. I got so tired not quit seeing the glubulars.
And now being able to see nebulas also is icing on the cake!
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6440742 - 04/01/14 12:52 AM

Dxvid55, Have you had a chance to us the M&SG filter yet?
If so how much better{or worse}than your Celestron UHC/LPR
filter? Thanks for the info. I found a web site called
"Astronomical Filter Curves". It's been very helpful.
De Lorme


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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6440922 - 04/01/14 07:16 AM

No the clouds (but not the rain thank goodness) seem to be back for the foreseeable.

Did you mean this site,

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/filters/curves.htm

or something else?


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Dxvid55
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Reged: 12/16/13

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6440931 - 04/01/14 07:22 AM

Quote:

I finally got some decent shots thru this device
I wish to thank c7jhawk and De Lorme for heads up on this
one - I was raised that gen 1 was useless
not in this case!


http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6440546/page...




Those are great shots, Barnards Loop is very impressive. How does this intensifier compare with gen 3 you have used?


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highfnum
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6440980 - 04/01/14 07:58 AM

very well better than G2
G3 has less distortion(flatter field) and less weight
g3 picks up a bit more of fainter stuff

g1 has brighter image and less noise but only zone 1 is good for astronomy zone 3 real bad
I think i got a way to design an eyepiece to get rid of most distortion -- future work

when you consider its 1/10 price of a used g3 very well indeed. Very funny a good 2 inch H-a filter will cost same or more that tube itself!


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6441008 - 04/01/14 08:23 AM

Those were impressive shots and showed off capability of cascade tube well. Does anyone know if there is a filter that concentrates on fairly narrowband H-Alpha AND narrowband SII in one filter? I haven't run across one yet, but do have a 35nm filter that works very good at much longer f ratios for bringing up existing light level, but still showing off HII regions.

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highfnum
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6441279 - 04/01/14 11:29 AM

omega makes a filter 675 df20 that spans h-a sII
i only have the little 1.25 inch model
not well suited for this big beasty tube

I can try to see what it does once I mount on DOB


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Dxvid55
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Reged: 12/16/13

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6445177 - 04/03/14 11:24 AM

"I think i got a way to design an eyepiece to get rid of most distortion -- future work"

That's interesting, what did you have in mind?

I've found that the high mag of 26mm plossl (only about 70-80% of intensifier screen fits in plossl fov) also magnifies the background noise "dots" which can be seen individually. Not a problem with bright objects, but the fainter the target the more difficult to distinguish the noise-dots from the target. The solution with faint objects is to use the lower mag of a loupe (all the intensifier screen only fills about 70% of the 5x loupe fov) so that background becomes uniform grey-green instead of individual dots.

So was thinking an ideal solution might be some sort of zoom eyepiece, then you could tailor the mag to brightness of each object, as each target is different.

The only zoom loupe I could find is this one,

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40720-REG/Peak_1302044_8_16x_Zoom_Loupe...

which is expensive. Does anyone know any other zoom eyepiece which could be used for this purpose? (And if it flattens field distortion as well even better!)

I do have 3 different mags now (26 plossl plus a 10x and 5x loupe) which are probably enough for most situations, but a zoom would be more convenient and more flexible.


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highfnum
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6445195 - 04/03/14 11:35 AM

idea: apheric lens design creates opposite pincushion
i got a shot at home ill post later


yes I use lower power loupes - noise not as obvious


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highfnum
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6445865 - 04/03/14 06:06 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

here is a g2 with apheric eyepiece
notice bend is opposite of p8079hp (see above)


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cnoct
super member


Reged: 09/02/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Dxvid55]
      #6446568 - 04/04/14 04:38 AM

Peak Optics makes some pretty good loupe's.

The 10x loupe (#1983) is really good and was at one time used by STANO Components on a number of their MX-9916 based night vision scopes.

I can't comment on their zoom loupe's but the 10x mentioned above is outstanding, for a loupe that is.

Here are a couple pictures of the ones I owned that use the Peak Loupe:





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De Lorme
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: cnoct]
      #6470950 - 04/17/14 05:05 AM

Cnoct, I just saw the video on YouTube you made showing how the TEC reduced the noise. Could I apply this to my 8079HP?
Would the Tec12706 work and if so what heat sink would go with it? Thanks for the help, De Lorme


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highfnum
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6473092 - 04/18/14 06:48 AM

I was playing with iie
You can pump it up with momentary
off switch added to line


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darthtony
newbie


Reged: 10/11/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: highfnum]
      #6529551 - 05/16/14 05:31 PM

Hi, i am thinking of buying the P8079HP tube for building a genral night vision scope(not specific to stargazing).Apart from here http://www.starlightnv.co.uk/gen1_p8079hp.html where else can i find it?Does it have reasonable quality for the price? Generaly what other optical equipmenty do i need?I have seen it used with CCTV lenses and SLR lenses, and jewllers loop eyepeices, what should i use(low price being the deciding factor)?What sort of specs do i look for and how do i calculate magnification etc?

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De Lorme
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Reged: 12/30/08

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: darthtony]
      #6530072 - 05/16/14 11:33 PM

DarthTony, If you go back a few pages you will find Highfnum and David's pictures which are great. There well worth the money and there not hard to put together.
What kind of telescope and mount would you be putting it on? De Lorme


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darthtony
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Reged: 10/11/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: De Lorme]
      #6530343 - 05/17/14 06:57 AM

I just want to build a night vision scope, not for mounting it on a telescope, at the moment.

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highfnum
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: darthtony]
      #6530349 - 05/17/14 07:04 AM

Anchor ltd is second source also for p8079hp
link is somewhere in this thread early on


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: darthtony]
      #6530358 - 05/17/14 07:21 AM

You can also look for Varo gen 1 cascade tubes. From $100 - $120 on eBay. The p8079hp tubes purchased by several around here have all been good though and price is close after shipping. If you are handy with PVC and fittings, you could build for quite inexpensive using the jewelers loupe mentioned previously for the eyepiece or even a PVS-2 weapons sight eyepiece. C-mount adapter for objectives offer all kinds of low cost lens solutions.

I have an ABS plastic housing scope for 25mm format tubes and they are sturdy. I use it hand held a lot. It has the c-mount adapter and I use a nifty fifty canon lens or a Pentax 200mm lens with it. It has a 1/4-20 bolt mount to attach to photo tripod if I want.

I imagine you could build similar with p8079hp tube for $200 and come out with a very nice handheld or photo tripod mountable scope.

This is the ABS housing for 25mm tubes with Canon 50mm lens on it. Yellow cap on jewelers loupe eyepiece protecting it from dust, but similar to jewelers loupe posted. That is a c-mount to Canon efs adapter used to attach the nifty fifty:



Edited by Vondragonnoggin (05/17/14 07:27 AM)


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darthtony
newbie


Reged: 10/11/10

Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #6530379 - 05/17/14 07:51 AM

Judging from the size, you are not using the p8079hp tube. How does it compare to Gen2 or Gen3 tubes?from what i have read, it has good sensitivity and SNR but somewhat significant distortion on the edges and it is huge. Can the sidtrortion be corrected opticaly.(eg coma corrector?)

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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: DIY Intensified IIT setup for around $200 project. new [Re: darthtony]
      #6530403 - 05/17/14 08:07 AM

That one isn't the p8079hp tube. Just showing an example housing where you could make a similar PVC housing for low cost.

I don't know of any correcters for the edge aberrations on the gen 1 cascade. Maybe some one else here does.

Size is shorte