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Equipment Discussions >> Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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jimb1001
sage
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Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5221887 - 05/14/12 01:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Lastly, or next to lastly, I haven't noticed "all sorts of detractors" objecting to this type of observing. Am I missing something?






Mike would be referring to some of the folks in the Eyepiece Forum, who refuse to see V&EAA as a form of 'Observing', and some of the folks in the Imaging Forums who refuse to see it as any form of Imaging.

So we float along happily in our own Limbo




Every once in a while I see folks objecting to "goto".

I suppose at one point some people objected to telescopes. After all, eyes were good enough for all those thousands of years. Responding to that mentality has always been a waste of time.

Now lets get back to a serious discussion. How many seconds of integration should we allow before chasing someone off this forum?


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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5221960 - 05/14/12 01:48 PM

I'm voting for 60 minutes integration. It will be about as exciting as 90% of the cable tv shows offered in my service. Some of them are live too.



Just kiddin around, really.


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Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5222218 - 05/14/12 03:57 PM

Quote:

Now lets get back to a serious discussion. How many seconds of integration should we allow before chasing someone off this forum?




I say we chase of anyone suggesting that there be any kind of limitations on threads, providing of course the subject deals with astro video or something that originated in an astro video situation.

Like I said before, there's know one running around here twisting peoples arms to read every message.

Perhaps all that need to be done is to encourage people to use descriptive subject titles to begin with and for the rest to stay within a mile or two of the topic.

At least until there are more video forums to deal with specific issues.


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5222268 - 05/14/12 04:26 PM

Quote:

So we float along happily in our own Limbo




Everybody Limbo ...


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5222376 - 05/14/12 05:31 PM

As long as someone doesn't spend all weekend processing a photo and calling it live i good with everything. as long as there is full disclosure on how something is captured I can learn from it. Hey I still throw my meade electronic eyepiece in every once in awhile!

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Raginar
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: Stew57]
      #5225147 - 05/16/12 01:28 PM

That's the nice thing between the video forums and the imaging forums; in video you can realistically expect to get what you see posted. In the CCD forums? It's up for grabs! Even between cameras it depends on the software you have, the scope, the guider, your ability as a processor and the tricks you've learned to compensate for errors in your data. It's a *BLEEP* shoot!

I like the video forums as they are; I don't think I've seen any posting of modified pictures. So I think all of this is fairly moot.


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jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: Stew57]
      #5237914 - 05/24/12 07:30 PM

The DSI pro doesn't have the Sony Ex-View like the Mallincam have. To be fair,you would have to compare the Mallincam againts the DSI Pro II (with Ex-View). You are comparing apple and orange. Also, the DSI Pro II seems to have less noise than the Pro

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mclewis1
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: jambi99]
      #5238101 - 05/24/12 10:08 PM

Quote:

The DSI pro doesn't have the Sony Ex-View like the Mallincam have.



Actually neither do most Mallincams. The ExView HAD chip is only an option on many Mallincams and is not very popular ... yet. With improved cooling capabilities and some better understanding of the chip's strengths and weaknesses more potential Mallincam owners are choosing the ExView HAD chip option.

Quote:

To be fair,you would have to compare the Mallincam againts the DSI Pro II (with Ex-View). You are comparing apple and orange. Also, the DSI Pro II seems to have less noise than the Pro



I agree that in general it would be better to compare the Pro II to a Mallincam. To help the comparison the Pro II should also have a cooling capability added to it as well.

Ideally though the better comparison would be with the latest model cameras from ATIK or Starlight Express which have better sensors, lower noise circuits and cooling as compared to older CCD cameras like the Meades.


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Stew57
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Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5238151 - 05/24/12 10:40 PM

I was just comparing what I have on hand. The dsi pro does get the benifit od auto dark subtract via envisage (and without cooling it needs it). If someone has a better ccd camera that will do live I am all for it as I am in the market. I was really wishing something like the celestron nightscape with 3x3 color binning would be an answer. One could change the resolution/sensitivity as needed. Add lower noise circuits and a better cooling system as you suggested and maybe.

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mclewis1
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: Stew57]
      #5238733 - 05/25/12 10:35 AM

I'm with ya Mark. Personally I never did much with Envisage (used my DSI primarily as an autoguide camera) but I'm always pleasantly surprised by the software's capabilities, but as much with it's user interface.

I would indeed be very interesting to see a number of the modern cameras compared side by side. I think a lot of folks would be interested in doing some reasonable "live" work along with traditional imaging and my guess is a lot of the latest products would handle that quite well.


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5239509 - 05/25/12 06:44 PM

Would you be able to get the arms of M51 in a heavy light polluted area with a C11?

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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: saemark30]
      #5239531 - 05/25/12 06:58 PM

I dont have any captures with the C11 (yet) and my mount is packed to ship to Ed. However, I do have a M51 from my light polluted backyard from a ETX80.

80mm F5 at about 100 seconds with gain at 2 bars Of course with the C11 M51 fills the screen and shows a lot more detail.

Edited by Stew57 (05/25/12 07:04 PM)


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mclewis1
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: saemark30]
      #5239746 - 05/25/12 09:16 PM

Quote:

Would you be able to get the arms of M51 in a heavy light polluted area with a C11?



Um, in a word ... yes, absolutely.

First define "heavy light polluted" skies - mag 4, mag 3, mag 2?
What type of C11 setup do you have in mind ?(NS GPS/CPC1100 or a C11 ota on a gem). The reason for the question is that with a gem (or an alt az with a wedge) you'll be able to take longer exposures (beyond 30-40s). Normally this would be counter productive with heavy light pollution but with very selective filters (narrow band) you'll be able to use longer exposures and still keep much of the light pollution out.

A true light pollution filter will darken the background somewhat but a narrow band filter like a good UHC will let you pull out a surprising amount of faint detail under bad skies. Remember though that galaxies are a bit of a special case when it comes to filters and light polluted skies. Filters tend to work much better on other types of DSOs (planetary nebula, extended nebula, etc.). If your light pollution isn't too bad then a Deep Sky filter can also work reasonably well on galaxies.

Another "trick" under heavy light pollution that only works for video cameras (live viewing) is to adjust the black levels on your display device (either on the video monitor or with the modified Mallincam frame grabber, the MCV-1E). Being able to adjust the black level on the fly gives you the ability to eke out more faint details from bright light polluted backgrounds.


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GlennLeDrew
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5240011 - 05/26/12 12:02 AM

To amplify on Mark's comments on adjusting the black level. While it might be aesthetically pleasing to darken the sky to the point if 'simulating' an outer space-like, no sky glow view. This can be counterproductive. All the more so when the sky glow is causing rather poor contrast. Go too far on the black setting and faint, subtle structure can be artificially clipped to invisibility. I've long ago learned that in order to see all the image has to offer, some amount of sky glow must be present (unless the exposure is too short to really capture the glow to start with.)

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mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5241802 - 05/27/12 07:32 AM

+1 on Glenn's comments above. Some contrast is usually beneficial. However, to much contrast will destroy all of the necessary details. It is definitely a balancing act.

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nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5243314 - 05/28/12 06:26 AM Attachment (44 downloads)

Interesting post as always but here's my Mallicam 30sec Challenge against my unfiltered Lodestar-C eg ICX429AK Sony Exview interline CCD; format = 752 x 580 pixels in 6.4mm x 4.75mm area thro YMCG secondary colour filters. Used my Star-burner 30cm f/3.7 SCT on M5. Ok - I manual tweaked them 'cos my s/ware doesn't have knobs to do it but you get the idea and maybe Craig will do some s/ware wizardry to do it automatically aka Mallincam

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nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: nytecam]
      #5243317 - 05/28/12 06:28 AM Attachment (37 downloads)

and Ring M57 in 30s likewise again from Saturday night

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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: Astronomiser.Com]
      #5243431 - 05/28/12 09:15 AM

Quote:

Anyone think we need a Digital Video Camera?






Nope. Not me. The Mallincam is far more versatile than any digital solution. You can use the M-cam...

1. As a straight video device...no computer needed (you will need Rock's wireless shutter control for the Xtreme).

2. Under computer control outputting composite video to a monitor and/or recorder.

3. Feeding Super VHS video to a digitizer.

If I want more-better-gooder it is my Canon or the ST2000. Most of the time the Xtreme is just perfect for what I do.


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ccs_hello
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/03/04

Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: rmollise]
      #5243456 - 05/28/12 09:29 AM

Ahhh....


The quoted statement came from original poster on page 1 post #1 of this thread.
Hope we will not go through another round of 12-page discussions .


Of course unk Rod is entitled to have his opinions .

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Mallincam Alternative-Digital new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5244019 - 05/28/12 02:15 PM

Sometimes I come early to threads. Sometimes late. Sometimes I get the last word in. Sometimes not...

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