Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Electronically Assisted Astronomy

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | >> (show all)
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2
      #5283940 - 06/22/12 02:11 PM

I just found this camera from china. Seems like it would be worth a try. Any ccd experts out there have an opinion on this cameras specs? Price seems cheap, but would take a month or so to get from china. Any thoughts?

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/577569401-Free-shipping-High-Resolution-1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-wholesalers.html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5284000 - 06/22/12 02:46 PM

Looks cool- I would want to check out the manual before ordering to confirm manual settings of other function but also just did more of a broad search and looks like there are a few manufacturers that are using a DSP with x1024 sens-up- i would imagine this would REQUIRE some kind of cooling mod to get decent results but definitely exciting with a 700TVL chip 960h ex-viewII.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5284018 - 06/22/12 02:59 PM

Well I feel like a Guinna pig, because I ordered one just to play with. First task is to hope I didn't get scammed, because Aliexpress can be dodgy. I ordered the Pal version for the 20sec integration. If I get scammed its a lost 75 dollars, but its the only place I can find this camera. We shall see.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John Miele
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/29/05

Loc: North Alabama
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5284050 - 06/22/12 03:28 PM

Is it color or B/W?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John Miele]
      #5284084 - 06/22/12 03:59 PM

Quote:

Is it color or B/W?




Color


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
StarmanDan
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5284178 - 06/22/12 05:08 PM

Odd that the SCB-2000 specs at .0001 lux at 512x while this camera specs .0003 lux at 1024x.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: StarmanDan]
      #5284217 - 06/22/12 05:41 PM

The stated lux ratings for most cctvs are a joke- there is no standard for testing- I did find the same stat on the camera manufacturers website (lntech) and it had this: Lux= 0.003 (x256)

The important thing is what CCD chip and DSP are they using- I found a reference to Hitachi DSP for these cameras- not sure if that is correct- Hemmi will have to take some pictures when he dissects his!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5284435 - 06/22/12 08:50 PM

If that's an ExView HAD II type-1/2" camera, I'd say it's a good deal. (NTSC: ICX672AKA, PAL: ICX673AKA).

AFAIK, SONY's Effio DSP line does not have capability to go slower than 512x field-integration time. Thus 1024x has to come from a different manufacturer.

Old CN thread: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=VAA&Number=4921817

BTW, 960H CCD is making the pixel size smaller thus the S/N will not be as great as the commonly seen SONY enh-reso video CCDs.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5284454 - 06/22/12 09:15 PM

I think from looking at the 5 different models being sold on ebay at the link mentioned above that there are different sets of internals. Some sound like they are Effio based (2D noise reduction, 512x, etc.) and some are different (3D NR, 1024x).

It will be interesting to see what Hemmi actually gets.

The ExView HAD II is a great chip. It will be interesting to see the effect on DSO type of viewing/imaging from the trade off between increased resolution/increased noise (smaller pixels) and increased sensitivity. I'll bet it will also be a great planetary imager, based on how well the 1/3" Samsungs do in this area and the improvements this camera has.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5284482 - 06/22/12 09:46 PM

Couple more links- from the manufacturer- I ordered one too:

http://www.lntech.com.cn/en/products/productsinfo.asp?id=538

http://www.lntech.com.cn/en/products/products.asp?lbID1=46&cName1=boxcamera

The 320, 301, 300 series are the ones with a 700tvl x1024 option- the 300 looks kinda neat because it is a small form factor-


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5284489 - 06/22/12 09:50 PM

Quote:

If that's an ExView HAD II type-1/2" camera, I'd say it's a good deal. (NTSC: ICX672AKA, PAL: ICX673AKA).

AFAIK, SONY's Effio DSP line does not have capability to go slower than 512x field-integration time. Thus 1024x has to come from a different manufacturer.

Old CN thread: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=VAA&Number=4921817

BTW, 960H CCD is making the pixel size smaller thus the S/N will not be as great as the commonly seen SONY enh-reso video CCDs.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello




Correct it is not an Effio, but what I have no Idea. There seems to be only a handful of cameras out now with x1024 DSP. I can't find any reference to what DSP is in any of these new x1024 cameras.

Someone has to test these new cameras. We have had the same 2 Samsungs (a couple name changes, but nothing new) for 2+ years.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5284497 - 06/22/12 09:54 PM

Here is an example of a dome model (h3) with x1024 sens-up that specifies Hitachi Dsp

In the description it says : "our own DSP (h1), Effio DSP (h2) and Htachi DSP (h3)"

The h3 model with Hitachi DSP is the one with x1024

v3 dome


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5284499 - 06/22/12 09:55 PM

Can you ask the seller to send you the manual via pdf file and put it on this site so that we can look at it. If not, when you get the camera, let us know what it can do. I am interested too.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5285890 - 06/23/12 08:44 PM

Hey this looks very interesting indeed...Wonder about the ir filter....look forward for more info..
Nice find Hemmi


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mega256]
      #5286177 - 06/24/12 12:48 AM

Interesting. Good find Lee

It would be nice to find an improvement on the existing SDC-435/SCB-2000
and at those cheap prices it would be fantastic to help get people into Video ($70 Aussie with Free shipping from China).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5286260 - 06/24/12 03:11 AM

Quote:

Interesting. Good find Lee It would be nice to find an improvement on the existing SDC-435/SCB-2000
and at those cheap prices it would be fantastic to help get people into Video ($70 Aussie with Free shipping from China).


Agreed Ken - at those prices [Ł40 PP] might be tempted to remove my Lodestar and try a little video ... but I love my Lodestar when it can churn out stuff like this in 1second exposure etc in M13 + Catseye PN [1s]; M92 [1s]; M92 [30s] and M57 [20s]


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5286303 - 06/24/12 04:37 AM Attachment (98 downloads)

Hi CCS - would these board cams be worth a punt or is additional circuitry needed for sense-up

This board seems identical [x1024 sensup] to the $73.50 complete box cam but small enough for mail envelope and fab as EPcam or at prime focus of Newt [no secondary] as weight is tiny - now I'm getting carried away - focal reducer before cam not shown !


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5286328 - 06/24/12 06:53 AM

I wonder if you use Gstar software whether you could extend the exposure time to 34 seconds? With that chip and a good reducer, you should be able to see almost everything.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5286336 - 06/24/12 07:09 AM

Quote:

If that's an ExView HAD II type-1/2" camera, I'd say it's a good deal. (NTSC: ICX672AKA, PAL: ICX673AKA).




Oops typo, I meant
"If ... type-1/3" ...

Sorry.

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5286341 - 06/24/12 07:16 AM

Nytecam,

Hmmm... that RJ11 indeed looks like is (or similar to) the $73 1024x 960H videocam.
However, I noticed that it does not have the 5-button input leads but can be controlled by Pelco-D RS485 interface. This may not work for some of the users here.

When Hemmi get his videocam, a close-up shot on the CCD board woudl be helpful for A-B comparisons.

In general board camera is a good solution for small form factor such as your proposed solution. Just need to make sure it won't get wet or touch any metal causing short-circuit .

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5286349 - 06/24/12 07:39 AM

Another comment:

Set aside the collness of using the super-high resolution CCD (960H), have you noticed the camera is listed as the 650-700 TVL (TV lines) class?

Typically, the most commonly seen high-resolution (720H or 768H) videocam is listed as 550-600 TVL class.

Essentially, it means that
- At the same image sensor size (e.g., type-1/3"), the super-high reso type's pixel area is 50% smaller (3:2 @ 768H:960H) thus less light gathering.
- However, the horizontal resolution only marginal gain. The culprit is the NTSC CVBS output which choke the bandwidth.

P.S. For the curious,
yes, there are indeed standard reso CCD (512H). (Typically quoted as 330 TVL videocam when used.)
Under the same image sensor format (e.g., type-1/3"), its per-pixel area size is twice as the 960H's.
Who is using this type of classic CCD sensors? A good example is Meade DSI. This is a tradeoff between spatial resolution and more light gathering power.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jbell
sage


Reged: 04/09/10

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5286381 - 06/24/12 08:13 AM

Quote:

... but I love my Lodestar when it can churn out stuff like this in 1second exposure etc in M13 + Catseye PN [1s]; M92 [1s]; M92 [30s] and M57 [20s]






Quote:

Another comment:...... The culprit is the NTSC CVBS output which choke the bandwidth.....
Clear Skies!

ccs_hello




Yea, the direct usb connect of the lodestar is the bomb... and explains maurices pics. Best astro purchase I've made. When the lxd is cooperating, I can run rings around any other "live" camera in the area.

One other thought... No D/A converter, and no mpeg4 compression on the frame grabber.

my2c.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jbell]
      #5286567 - 06/24/12 11:04 AM

Stupid question, are you guys just using a lodestar autoguider for those pictures?

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5286658 - 06/24/12 12:15 PM

Quote:

I wonder if you use Gstar software whether you could extend the exposure time to 34 seconds? With that chip and a good reducer, you should be able to see almost everything.



Jim, I don't believe the Gstar s/w actually increases the exposure/integration times. It appears to offer a form of stacking and some other image enhancements that improve on the basic images. There are statements about the effects being similar to doubling the integration times of a basic camera.

Increasing exposure/integration time within a camera is a huge trade of with the increase in noise. If you increase integration times you must address noise, if you don't it very quickly overwhelms the images.

One method is to improve the DSP (digital signal processor) and read amp characteristics - this is expensive unless they are part of new hardware/firmware intended for wide spread commercial use (volume pricing). The other method is internal cooling, and so far with video this is strictly for a boutique product (Mallincam, Stellacam) or DIY type of upgrade.

Edited by mclewis1 (06/24/12 12:44 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jbell
sage


Reged: 04/09/10

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5286815 - 06/24/12 02:02 PM

Quote:

Stupid question, are you guys just using a lodestar autoguider for those pictures?

Chris




Yea.. It's basically a starlight 7c in auto guider form. I believe it's same chip as mallincam but not hampered with NTSC.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jbell]
      #5287003 - 06/24/12 03:51 PM

Quote:

Yea.. It's basically a starlight 7c in auto guider form. I believe it's same chip as mallincam but not hampered with NTSC.



Then you'd believe wrong.

Mallincam's use the Sony 418/428 chips, the Starlight Express camera uses a 429 chip. The 418/428 chips have larger pixels.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jbell
sage


Reged: 04/09/10

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5287390 - 06/24/12 08:42 PM

that's what I get for posting from my phone and not double checking... yes it's the 429ak.
http://www.sxccd.com/handbooks/Handbook%20for%20the%20Lodestar%20%27Colour%27.pdf

thanks mark.

apology for the off topic


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jbell]
      #5287510 - 06/24/12 09:59 PM

I don't think it was too off topic. A reminder that a camera's capabilities are much more than simply one sensor vs. another is a good thing.
I find double checking stats becomes more important as time goes by ... (personal experience)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5287550 - 06/24/12 10:18 PM

I never thought to use my lodestar autoguider as a mallincam.

Sorry for OT,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5287634 - 06/24/12 11:25 PM

ICX428 and ICX429 are sister CCD sensors. One is primarily designed for NTSC format and the other PAL. The pixel area difference is minimal (8.4 um x 9.8 um vs. 8.6 um x8.3 um) which is 15% more.

The European version of the videocams (and Mallincam) will simply change the sensor used from '428 to '429.

Some astroCCD imagers chose to use these CCDs originally designed for videocam due to (1) large sensor area & large per-pixel area (2) lower price due to mass production and easier to source.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5287925 - 06/25/12 06:37 AM

I also wonder about the IR filter. Hopefully, it will be almost the same as taking out the IR filter on the Samsung cameras. If you attempt to take out the filter, please let us know how you did it. From the outside, almost all of these cameras look the same. Also, hopefully, it will come with an adapter to fit a 1.25 inch diagonal.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
WillCarney
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/08/09

Loc: Bloomington, ILL
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5288123 - 06/25/12 09:52 AM

Quote:

Stupid question, are you guys just using a lodestar autoguider for those pictures?

Chris




I've used one for a number of different picture events.
I have used wide angle lenses 6-15mm for shooting meteors and satellites. As well as using it in the telescope as a camera. On several occasions I used a QSI as a guider and the Loadstar as the camera.

William


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5288552 - 06/25/12 02:52 PM

Quote:

I also wonder about the IR filter. Hopefully, it will be almost the same as taking out the IR filter on the Samsung cameras. If you attempt to take out the filter, please let us know how you did it. From the outside, almost all of these cameras look the same. Also, hopefully, it will come with an adapter to fit a 1.25 inch diagonal.



Jim,

It will not come with an adapter. It likely won't come with anything extra. It may not even come with a manual of any sort. It's a C mount box camera, designed for low light security use. The usual customers are security systems integrators who have a fair amount of experience with similar cameras (yeah I know, if you met any of these folks I may be giving them more credit here).

Because it's a day/night or low light type of camera is has settings to take advantage of these low light conditions which makes the camera of interest to us in the video astronomy side of things.

Just like a Samsung security cameras you'll need to figure out the removal of the IR filter (lets pray that with this camera that it's as easy to do as with the Samsung and not something that's well glued in place), source a C mount to 1.25" nose piece (the adapter you mentioned) - a cheaper model made from Delrin is appropriate here but you should also be able to use the one that came with your Mallincam if you choose to, and a suitable +12v power source. Note that the power connections are small screw on type so you'll need to have a cable with bare wire ends and you'll need to ensure that you always get the polarity correct. Put the wires in the wrong way and you'll likely fry the camera.

The video connection is composite only via a BNC connector ... again some of the stuff that came with your Mallincam may help out here.

Then there's the menu system which is likely to be quite different than that on the Samsungs. Nobody will know what settings are appropriate for planets or DSOs (although some educated guesses will likely get somewhat close).

Using this camera for astronomy purposes will be a real DIY project. Not a tough project for those folks with experience with the Samsungs or similar but it's definitely not a commercial plug n play type of setup. There won't be any hand holding available until a few folks have time to really work with the camera.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5289253 - 06/25/12 10:03 PM

I just ordered one too.The thing is that i sold my scb-4000 a month ago to finance my Orion deep sky imager II hehe. However, i was planning to get a scb-2000 for quick observation and for planetary. Therefore for 75 $ (50 $ cheaper than the scb-2000) and some better specs(on paper), i think its good bet.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5289275 - 06/25/12 10:21 PM

Do you think the 50% smaller pixel size can truly be translated to 50% loss of light gathering? This, compared to the the original exview sensor? People seem to report that the scb-2000 is actually pretty close in term of sensitivity compared to the scb-4000. Despite pixel size 40% smaller and the fact the the camera has a super had II sensor. This is why i sold my scb-4000. I don't think the difference is that much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that integration time and focal ratio seem to have more effect on the camera sensitivity.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5289355 - 06/25/12 11:55 PM

jambi99,

It is a long story to tell. But a general rule of thumb is:
under the same generation of technology improvements, the per-pixel area "photon to electron" conversion factor tends to scale linearly, except toward the smaller pixel size, the line starts to go flat and even curve up until the pixel size is far too small to be worthy for that generation of technology.

Of course, long integration time and fast f-ratio is forcing more star-light to fall into the same pixel "photon bucket" thus more signal ("S" part of S/N) to help the image quality.

P.S. you might have noticed that I have been careful not to use the terms: sensitivity (fuzzy, misunderstood, misinterpreted, or even "cooked" term) and QE (multiple definitions and some are misleading).
Thus my post is dry and imprecise. Sorry about that.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5289376 - 06/26/12 12:12 AM

To complement my previous post, let me express my personal opinion/guessing...

If that videocam mfg makes two models of the 1024x videocams, if everything are made the same except
one is using an ExviewHAD II type-1/3" high-resolution CCD, and
the other is using an ExviewHAD II type-1/3" super-high resolution (960H) CCD

I'll pick the former, if low-light performance is the main decision factor. Note that spatial resolution for that 960H version won't be that high anyway.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5289401 - 06/26/12 12:54 AM

I agree too and it think that any improvement is always good. However, my point is that the pixel size and the sensor type seems to be quit negligible with very fast f-ratio. See, we are using these cameras in a particular way. The fact that we are using these camera with really fast focal ratio is not, in fact, what they are designed for. Let me us the analogy of the water bucket. Lets say you put these buckets(bigger and smaller) under a rain fall(normal use of the CCD). Then, the bucket size will matter. However, if you put the same buckets under the niagara fall(fast f-ration), the bucket size doesn't matter anylonger. Sorry, the analogy might be a little a inaccurate, but it give you an idea of what i mean.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
core
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/23/08

Loc: Mostly in Norman, OK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5289416 - 06/26/12 01:06 AM

Quote:

See, we are using these cameras in a particular way. The fact that we are using these camera with really fast focal ratio is not, in fact, what they are designed for.




The way I'm reading it ... the original intent of these cameras are for cctv applications - most all C/CS mount lens I've seen have very larger apertures - eg, I have a 8mm f/1.6, 25mm f/1.4, 12.5mm f/1.3


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: core]
      #5289666 - 06/26/12 08:11 AM

Peter,

Shorter focal length lenses are easier/cheaper to make. The Entrance pupil (or Objective lens diameter) in the above examples are just 5mm, 17.85mm, and 9.6mm respectively. A long focal length with fast f-ratio, even if the lens' output image circle size does not need to be large (just large enough to cover videocam's tiny type-1/2" sensor area), the price will be high and Chromatic Aberration will require premium optics.


jambi99,

What you are describing is known as the common imaging triads:

(a) make the exposure time longer, thus more photons can be collected
(b) make the optical system more efficient to "funnel" the incoming photon flux to the "photon detection apparatus". E.g., fast optics, better lens coating (if refractors, if typical camera lenses), better mirror coating (if reflectors).
(c) make the "photon detection apparatus" (e.g., an image sensor) more efficient in converting/processing/displaying an image.

For (a), requires better tracking, polar alignment, good light pollution control, and better seeing.
For (b), requires more investment on premium optics
For (c), requires more technology advancements (opto-electronics, electronics, image science & processing, etc.) and sometimes serious money.

In another word, under photon starvation shooting condition (like us the astro people), that Niagara River is just a drying stream and would require a lot of help, (a)+(b)+(c) incurs a lot of trade-offs.


Luckily, in this VEAA branch, at the current time, I'd say it's a golden age under these constraints:
- inexpensive long exposure videocams (re-purposed from mass-market security-industry day-night CCTV cameras) are readily available
- its low spatial resolution, (arguably some may add the word barely) good enough (NTSC video) quality, and tiny sensor area put less burdens on mount's tracking and premium optics

From this baseline, there are multiple directions to branch out. Some will say the ROI (return of investment) will not be that great any more . Of course everyone is entitled to have his/her own opinions on those factors.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jbell
sage


Reged: 04/09/10

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5289726 - 06/26/12 09:00 AM

Quote:


From this baseline, there are multiple directions to branch into. Some will say the ROI (return of investment) will not be that great any more . Of course everyone is entitled to have his/her own opinions on those factors.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello




I couldn't agree more... a balanced approach ends up with a better overall result. Balancing scope to mount to camera.

I spent a year trying to figure that one out.

One of the things that would make a great sticky for those just trying to dive in, would be a low, medium,high (price) "standard" for hardware for real time imaging.

maybe something like a ioptron refractor/samsung... a C8 or LT6 with a DSI III (or something like it) and a bigger meade/celestron with a mallen..

just thinking a few cookie cutter "it's all been figured out before" options might help folks.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5289998 - 06/26/12 11:47 AM


SDC-435/SCB-2000:
Pixel Size
NTSC 6.35um * 7.4um
PAL 6.5um * 6.25um

Lntech Cam:
NTSC 5um * 7.4um
PAL 5um * 6.25um

Sony measured sensivity @f5.6 (standard sensitivity test)

Sdc-435/SCB2000 Superhad II:
NTSC 2250mv
PAL 2250mv

Lntech Cam Exview II:
NTSC 2450mv
PAL 2400mv

The sensitivity charts are interesting too for the 960h exview chip- more red sensitivity.


Brian


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290030 - 06/26/12 12:04 PM


Be advised- this camera may not have full manual shutter/sens-up- won't be able to confirm until I test the camera in person-

I did get a response back form the seller with more details on the DSP menus - but have not gotten confirmation that it is mechanical/sliding filter- but from the menu information I have seen I am not sure that this camera has full manual shutter control.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290336 - 06/26/12 03:30 PM

Brian can you share what you have found?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5290449 - 06/26/12 04:38 PM Attachment (123 downloads)

Yep- true ICR- so should be mechanical IR filter which is good news:

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290453 - 06/26/12 04:39 PM Attachment (185 downloads)

more files:

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290455 - 06/26/12 04:40 PM Attachment (161 downloads)

more

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290470 - 06/26/12 04:53 PM

I noticed the Menu usage page also states a max of x256 on exposure menu. So who knows whats really there. Did you ever find out what DSP this thing uses?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5290493 - 06/26/12 05:57 PM Attachment (58 downloads)

I did ask that question about the x256 in the example - guy said that was only because it is a generic manual sheet from an earliuer version of the camera- he said it absolutely does sens-up x1024

No answer on the dsp


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290498 - 06/26/12 06:03 PM Attachment (64 downloads)

lAST ONE:

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290506 - 06/26/12 06:09 PM

Brian,

Thanks for helping me identify one mistake I made:

Std reso (480H) pixel width is 9.8um, high-reso (720H) is 6.35, and super-high (960H) is 5um. So area-wise it's supposed to be 1 : 3/4 : 1/2. But the actual value on
high-reso vs. super-high is just 27% more.

Regarding that sensor output avg voltage level, indeed SONY datasheet calls it "Sensitivity". But that is far from the good definition of "sensitivity". As I had stated in my earlier post I don't want to touch the (loaded) word sensitivity . There is a long story...

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5290522 - 06/26/12 06:24 PM

Re: loaded words- yes I hear you loud and clear!

Okay- Think I found out what DSP is here- it is RJ Electronics of Korea- version R8 or Rj9 - new one on me.

And lookie here- looks like it is programmable with an extension board via USB and has the instructions for changing the timing....hmmmmmm

http://www.rje.co.kr/product.html




Edited by scout72 (06/26/12 06:32 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290656 - 06/26/12 08:31 PM

very interesting. I hope it will do manual shutter up to x1024

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5290908 - 06/26/12 11:29 PM Attachment (82 downloads)

Hmmm... interesting

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5291893 - 06/27/12 05:10 PM

Well sorry guys- no full manual/ fixed sens-up. Got my camera in the mail today- express shipped. Will do some night testing to see what it can do in auto mode. Will also shoot off a message to RJ about the DSP to see if there is any way to approximate manual settings.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5292008 - 06/27/12 06:16 PM

Quote:

Well sorry guys- no full manual/ fixed sens-up. Got my camera in the mail today- express shipped. Will do some night testing to see what it can do in auto mode. Will also shoot off a message to RJ about the DSP to see if there is any way to approximate manual settings.


That's a shame - hope a fix is possible

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5292171 - 06/27/12 08:24 PM

Quote:

Well sorry guys- no full manual/ fixed sens-up. Got my camera in the mail today- express shipped. Will do some night testing to see what it can do in auto mode. Will also shoot off a message to RJ about the DSP to see if there is any way to approximate manual settings.




Well that's a bummer. Look forward to seeing what you can get out of it regardless.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5294456 - 06/29/12 08:13 AM

Well, no update from Scout. It does'nt sound too good

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5294594 - 06/29/12 10:10 AM

I got my camera also, I have yet to test it. Will try tonight if I get a chance.

Brian, any update on your testing?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5294630 - 06/29/12 10:36 AM

Actually I just haven't been able to test- I just moved last week and still getting set up at the new place (but it is slightly darker skies at the new place- yipee)

Hopefully this weekend but at this rate Hemmi will probably beat me to first light with this camera.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5294633 - 06/29/12 10:38 AM

So I am a little confused. Does this mean it is limited to X16 for exposure? Also what does X16 translate to in number of seconds?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5294714 - 06/29/12 11:32 AM

No- it just means you don't have manual control of the exposure. It does have the ability to go to 1024x (1/50th or 1/60th secondframes =PAL or NTSC) = 20.4 seconds for PAL- but you can't set it there and keep it there- but what we haven't tested yet is if we set brightness all the way up and target something like a dim galaxy or neb for example and see if the camera will "figure it out" and keep trying to expose for that.

I do know of some folks that use the sdc-435 this way in auto mode and it actually works pretty well so I am still hopeful for what this cam can do out of the box.

Anyway- for Hemmi- my guesses on settings if it helps:

Exposure to "Normal"

Then Sens-up = x1024 (this is only telling the camera it CAN go to x1024 if it needs to but doesn't force it)

In Exposure menu set brightness setting all the way up telling the camera to overexpose as much as possible.

There is also a Lens setting - which again does not have a "manual" option- I believe the correct setting is DC IRVs then speed= 1/50th- but this is a guess since it does not have a "manual" setting here- the other option is ELECTR for lens which I believe means that the camera tries to adjust brightness electronically - an area for testing.

I would probably start with AGC to middle for starters and Gamma (in Enhance menu) to 0.45


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5294720 - 06/29/12 11:37 AM

Keep us posted. I ordered one too.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5295154 - 06/29/12 04:42 PM

I took mine apart and removed the it filter. What a pita...it was glued on...a little heat and it popped right off. Going to test it tonight!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295251 - 06/29/12 05:58 PM

What did you use for the heat?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5295257 - 06/29/12 06:07 PM

I used a cigarette lighter..gently heating the glass...but I would not recommend this method

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295267 - 06/29/12 06:18 PM

Cigarette lighter - yikes! From my quick inspection it looked like the filter was in a sliding mechanism- usually you can just wedge something in after it opens and this will keep it open- but will report back after I actually verify-

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5295282 - 06/29/12 06:27 PM

Nope its not mechanical. Just looks like it!..I was in a super hurry...on the road now to SC and darker skies! Tested the camera afterwards and all is well. I would do NSN but my netbook flash crashes with NSN...But I will get some pics up tonight.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295667 - 06/29/12 11:19 PM

Oh boy- well I am sure Hemmi will figure this out but THIS DOES HAVE manual shutter, was working with this cam a little more this afternoon and figured it out...if you turn Sense-Up off in the sense -up function then the Lens function gets the sense-up speeds and they ARE MANUAL! WOOHOO- well- will still have to see how it performs at 20 seconds...getting dark soon.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5295721 - 06/30/12 12:50 AM Attachment (185 downloads)

Well this thing is super sensitive...But Noise seems to be an issue at the moment..But it is 85 degrees right now...Here is a pic to chew on!

Edited by Hemmi (06/30/12 12:51 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295727 - 06/30/12 12:54 AM

that image at only x32 through thin clouds...Horrible seeing tonight and like 85 degrees

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295732 - 06/30/12 01:00 AM Attachment (173 downloads)

Trifid x64...moon, clouds and skyglow

Edited by Hemmi (06/30/12 01:04 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295743 - 06/30/12 01:13 AM

A lot of quirky things about this camera, but with some tweaking and good skies it may have potential. Seems to pull in a ton more light than the sdc-435 at the same exposure. However noise seems to be worse. With some tweaking I think it will do ok...still yet to try with lowering the gain..that may help with noise. Also better skies will give a better indication.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295827 - 06/30/12 03:01 AM

THanks Hemmi!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295860 - 06/30/12 04:04 AM Attachment (137 downloads)

Well done Hemmi for 1st DSO pics - looks very promising and manual shutter afterall say Scout

Did a quick test of your [boosted] M20 against Megastar and its down to mag 12.6 and pretty clean from hot pixels - M21 OC top left


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5295889 - 06/30/12 05:28 AM

Was this at 17 seconds? It could use some cooling.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5295890 - 06/30/12 05:32 AM

What kind of filter did you have on the camera. It looks like it could benefit from an Astronomik light pollution filter. That would darker the sky back round.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5295892 - 06/30/12 05:33 AM

Sens Up to "off" is the same as on the Samsung 2000 camera.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5296083 - 06/30/12 09:39 AM

Quote:

Was this at 17 seconds? It could use some cooling.




Swan was less than one sec. the trifid was slightly over one sec.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5296089 - 06/30/12 09:42 AM

Quote:

What kind of filter did you have on the camera. It looks like it could benefit from an Astronomik light pollution filter. That would darker the sky back round.




celestron uhc


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5296148 - 06/30/12 10:29 AM

Quote:

Well done Hemmi for 1st DSO pics - looks very promising and manual shutter afterall say Scout

Did a quick test of your [boosted] M20 against Megastar and its down to mag 12.6 and pretty clean from hot pixels - M21 OC top left




Not bad for 1 sec, but the images seem to be really grainy. Need more testing to see if that can be cleared up. I never got anywhere near x1024 with the moon out..anything over 1 sec was a total wash. But the amount of light this thing pulled in a such short exposures was excellent. I'm gonna postpone judgement on this camera till I can test it more. The graininess is my real concern at the momment.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5296160 - 06/30/12 10:40 AM

For around a second and with a UHC filter that is indeed impressive sensitivity ... but with that much noise ... yikes. As Maurice pointed out though they are quite smooth over all and without nasty hot pixels and such the images will very likely benefit greatly from stacking and a DIY cooling kit.

How fast is your scope setup?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5296162 - 06/30/12 10:41 AM

one last note...I saw no difference with 3d-dnr all the way up and off, which leads me to believe it was not working. Maybe there is a setting that is preventing it from working correctly, or its just not good enough...More testing is required to be certain.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5296165 - 06/30/12 10:42 AM

Quote:

For around a second and with a UHC filter that is indeed impressive sensitivity ... but with that much noise ... yikes. As Maurice pointed out though they are quite smooth over all and without nasty hot pixels and such the images will very likely benefit greatly from stacking and a DIY cooling kit.

How fast is your scope setup?




F6 ED with a .5 reducer...so ~f3


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5296294 - 06/30/12 12:26 PM

Playing around with the camera this morning, I discovered that if you set the exposure mode to WDR you get much less grain. I turned WDR to max and 3d-DNR to max. With the cam cover on, I could crank it up to 1024 acg high, and the noise level was not very bad. I will need to test this under the stars, but maybe this will be much better.

Also got wireless rs-485 working with the OSD. So that will help speed the testing.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5296311 - 06/30/12 12:41 PM

What is the wireless rs-485 thing?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5296323 - 06/30/12 12:52 PM

Hemmi,

Do you have any pictures from last night with the new-better settings?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5296373 - 06/30/12 01:29 PM

Sounds good! Thank Hemmi and Scout.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5296392 - 06/30/12 01:50 PM

Quote:

Hemmi,


Do you have any pictures from last night with the new-better settings?




No and it won't be for a few days at least. 108 degrees here today


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5296477 - 06/30/12 02:46 PM

Yikes

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5296730 - 06/30/12 06:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Was this at 17 seconds? It could use some cooling.




Swan was less than one sec. the trifid was slightly over one sec.




That is amazing. Great job with these. I can vouch for the conditions as well. Seeing and Transparency were terrible last night with the moon out as well.

Pretty much the worst conditions I have ever tried to observe in.

Based on those shots I would say this thing could be really good. Less than 1 sec is very fast for those objects to show up at all.

What monitor are you using with it?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5296808 - 06/30/12 07:08 PM

I use a netbook for viewing

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5296863 - 06/30/12 07:51 PM

I was out for a bit last night with this cam as well- went straight for m51 as I am fairly familiar with what the sdc-435/scb-2000 looks like with same scope at 10 seconds (PAL) c-8 at f3.8ish- and it is a pretty difficult object- even without poor seeing and bright moon :-) Anyway- my impressions were :too noisy!!

Also- I still have the stock filter on camera- but can confirm it is NOT true ICR/mechanical which is a bummer.

I tried many different setting - at 20 seconds it was almost completely washed out in noise- I didn't try WDR but will get there too- anyway- I could tell that the signal/data was there- the spiral arm structure and companion were there- just not useable- I tried all of the gain settings and tried dialing back the exposure and it was either too much noise or not enough exposure. I plan on testing additional settings and possibly other filters if I get my stock one off tonight.

I was able to cut back the noise a bit with the brightness control dialed back but could't get a real good result yet- ie less noise but still enough detail.

The menus are pretty funky on this one- you have to go through a kind of reset any time you make changes to the settings to save them.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5297006 - 06/30/12 09:47 PM

I agree with the noise. If we cant figure out how to dial it back, then the camera will not be very good for live viewing. When I get time I will attempt to use it with with a live stacking program to see if stacking will reduce the noise.

What we need is Samsung to release a camera with this chip, as it seems Samsung has the best noise canceling out there.

I still have alot of testing to do, and still think that there may be more that can be done for the noise. I still want to try WDR and also with the the AGC settings.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5299027 - 07/02/12 08:27 AM

Thanks for the results so far Lee

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5300231 - 07/03/12 07:30 AM

How long did it take for you to get your camera? I ordered mine on 6/26 and it looks like its still in Hong Kong.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5300479 - 07/03/12 11:09 AM

Mine too. Its seems that aliexpress tracking system is not very reliable.They gave me a tracking number but it does not provide me any details other than it was shipped from Hong Kong.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5300944 - 07/03/12 04:58 PM

I paid extra for DHL express. If you used free shipping, expect it in a month.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5300954 - 07/03/12 05:10 PM

There happens to be 1/32 space under the sensor on my camera, so I made a cold finger out of aluminum to cool the sensor. The cold finger is installed but waiting on a peltier and heatsink.

I just want to see if I can clean up some of this noise.

I will update if and when I get a chance to complete it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5300961 - 07/03/12 05:14 PM

All the noise that is on the image - did that come right away or after exposing for a while?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5301102 - 07/03/12 06:48 PM

it was right away, but it was ~95 degrees outside. So who knows how it will look come a brisk winter night.

Also I need to try all the settings before I give judgement. But first observations seems to have serious noise issues.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5301319 - 07/03/12 09:52 PM

If it was right away, the noise is probably not heat related so cooling would have no effect.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5301844 - 07/04/12 08:08 AM Attachment (132 downloads)

I took the picture with all the noise and used Neat Image to take most of the noise out and it looks a lot better.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5302756 - 07/04/12 06:42 PM

What would it take to use this camera without the telescope?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5302771 - 07/04/12 06:57 PM

Quote:

What would it take to use this camera without the telescope?




A c-mount lens. What lens depends on what you want it for! If its just for testing, just get something between 10-20mm. You can get c-mount lenses cheap off ebay.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5302776 - 07/04/12 07:00 PM

What if I wanted to set it up on top of the telescope but not inserted into the scope? What focal length would I need to see deep sky objects?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5302882 - 07/04/12 08:25 PM

Hmmm that could get expensive. This lens is very wide but about the best I could find less than 100 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Computar-Motorized-Security-camera-Lens-with-controll-box-12-120MM-F-1-1-8-/261056828605?pt=US_Security_Cameras&hash=item3cc83314bd

After that, it would be cheaper to just buy a small refractor telescope.

But with this lens at a max of 120mm of focal length, you could only view very large DSO's.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5302909 - 07/04/12 08:50 PM

Jim,

Something in the same range as your primary scope (after the focal reducer is factored in). There's no magic here ... a 500mm lens is a 500mm lens regardless if it's purpose built lens or a telescope operating at prime focus. Think about the variety of DSOs though. At 800 to 1000mm (your C11 with an f3 to 3.7 focal reducer) even planetary nebulae are small ... but most of the brighter galaxies show up quite well, globulars are good fit but it can be difficult to frame big extended nebulae and some open clusters.

100-500mm is for large scale objects. These tend to be open clusters (Pleiades), those big extended objects (the Veil or the North America nebula) and the Andromeda galaxy. Down under 50mm and you're looking at really big stuff (the big Ha objects like Barnard's loop in Orion) or parts of constellations. When you are in the 20mm and under range you're looking at whole constellations.

Load up CCDcalc with the Mallincam specs and a bunch of representative lenses (you can work out the aperture of any lens by plugging in the f ratio and focal length). Then run through the sample object list (load up the additional catalog of reference images) to see what objects work and don't work at different focal lengths.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5304865 - 07/06/12 04:56 AM

Anybody figure out a way to take the IR filter off besides using a cigarette lighter? Mine arrived yesterday but no one was here to sign for it so I will pick it up at the Post Office today.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5305284 - 07/06/12 12:07 PM

I could not set mine to x1024. The largest number was x256. Also, I assume that motion detect should be "OFF". Has anyone figured out the white balance settings yet? You cannot use the Samsung 2000 settings since they don't go that high. It would really be nice if someone posted all of the suggested settings for everything.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5305313 - 07/06/12 12:30 PM

It WOULD be really nice if someone posted all of the settings to use with this camera.

I nominate Lee.

Can someone set up a paypal donation site so we can motivate him to get this done quickly?

:-) joking joking

Well James- I think you are one of three or four folks that have this camera currently so YOU may end up being the one to post the settings that are working for you.

You say you can only go to x256- is this in the Lens function? You have turned sense-up to off?

Motion Detection should be off.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5305407 - 07/06/12 01:22 PM

It does not make any difference whether I have sense OFF, HIGH or LOW, I still cannot get any more than x256. Maybe they sent me the wrong camera! BTW, that IR filter they have on there is a real @$#% to get off. I also had to use a lighter.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5305526 - 07/06/12 02:36 PM

Do you have the model number from the box just to confirm which camera they sent you? I thought that the entire camera line was either x512 or x1024...Just random thought- are you in the Lens setting for shutter speed? The only other setting that goes to x256 is the WDR setting?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5305661 - 07/06/12 04:07 PM

I have to get some skies to test the camera first. We have had 100+ days for over a week. I have had about 30 min of total time under the sky with this thing.

Not sure about the x256 thing. I would check you got the right camera. If you pull the sticker off the DSP chip (the biggest one) it should say RJ-11.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5305735 - 07/06/12 05:04 PM

I think they sent me the wrong camera. The model number that I ordered was LN-320-RJ11-673 which has the Sense Up to x1024. They sent me model #LN-320-RJ11-672. Its only one number off but it is not what was ordered. I just sent an e-mail to the shipper. And I had already taken the IR filter off.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5305774 - 07/06/12 05:26 PM

Quote:

I think they sent me the wrong camera. The model number that I ordered was LN-320-RJ11-673 which has the Sense Up to x1024. They sent me model #LN-320-RJ11-672. Its only one number off but it is not what was ordered. I just sent an e-mail to the shipper. And I had already taken the IR filter off.




OOPS on already removing the filter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5305982 - 07/06/12 08:05 PM

I think the last 3 digits are for if its the PAL or NTSC version. In your case i think its the ntsc(673). I'm guessing...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5306169 - 07/06/12 11:24 PM

It is NTSC/PAL- it refers to the chip- ICX672 or ICX 673

The shipper confirmed if i wanted NTSC or PAL after I placed the order-because the only one shown online is the 673- so if you ordered the 673 but said you wanted NTSC you are going to get the 672.

But this is moot- either of these is x1024 so James is either looking at the wrong setting or there is some other conflicting setting set wrong.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5306243 - 07/07/12 01:13 AM

I can confirm a couple things after testing the camera tonight. I did some simple test, as the skies sucked. I just played with the camera in the dark. I found out that to reduce noise dramatically, Exposure set to HLI (start with HLI level 1), Sense up OFF, ACG any level (depending on what your viewing), lens set to electric and adjust exposure manually. Also set the 3d-dnr to max.

Try this as a good starting point. I'm now more excited about trying this out on the sky. Just remember, you have to exit and save after every change, else the camera will go back to old settings after a few min.

Lee


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5306302 - 07/07/12 03:06 AM

You da man- thanks sir- guess I have to actually go out and do some more testing now too...



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5306474 - 07/07/12 09:44 AM

My camera only goes to x256 but I wonder is this is enough. The images put on this post were only at x32 and only for a few seconds. When would you ever need to go to x1024?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5306529 - 07/07/12 10:21 AM

Quote:

You da man- thanks sir- guess I have to actually go out and do some more testing now too...






also wdr exposure mode seems to work good, but wdr has to be set to on....not auto. in wdr auto mode its grainy as sand.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5306597 - 07/07/12 11:26 AM

If you do set it to WDR, I found that you cannot make any color setting changes! So, WDR may not be the best setting. I am sure that without the IR filter, the color settings need to change. I am interested in what those color settings should be from someone who goes our to observe. A good subject would be Jupiter or Saturn since we know what colors they should be.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5306917 - 07/07/12 03:06 PM

Quote:

I can confirm a couple things after testing the camera tonight. I did some simple test, as the skies sucked. I just played with the camera in the dark. I found out that to reduce noise dramatically, Exposure set to HLI (start with HLI level 1), Sense up OFF, ACG any level (depending on what your viewing), lens set to electric and adjust exposure manually. Also set the 3d-dnr to max. Try this as a good starting point. I'm now more excited about trying this out on the sky. Just remember, you have to exit and save after every change, else the camera will go back to old settings after a few min.
Lee


Good move Lee - test astro gear in daylight first or in this case in dark conditions for nighttime simulation

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5307796 - 07/08/12 06:00 AM

The shipper of my camera agrees that he sent the wrong camera and is going to replace my camera with the right one. Should I get a PAL camera or NTSC camera? Thanks.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5311822 - 07/10/12 06:53 PM

This is the rs-485 remote I use with this camera. But its prob not the best choice.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/221013747620?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5311847 - 07/10/12 07:16 PM

Why do you say its not the best choice? Does it control ALL of the camera settings or just some of them. How does it work on your camera? Is there anything else that is needed to control the camera settings? Thanks.
Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5311975 - 07/10/12 08:48 PM

Quote:

Why do you say its not the best choice? Does it control ALL of the camera settings or just some of them. How does it work on your camera? Is there anything else that is needed to control the camera settings? Thanks.
Jim




The buttons don't match up 100% and its not back lit. Other than that it does control the camera 100%


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5311987 - 07/10/12 08:57 PM

Thanks. I just ordered one.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5316924 - 07/14/12 01:47 AM

I got my camera too. Unfortunately i forgot to order c-mount adapter. I will pass by the astroshop tomorrow and hopefully they have some in stock(which i doubt). Should be able to post some image in couple of days. Concerning the camera it self, the menu is a bit confusing. After a while you get us to it. I tried Hemmi settings and it does reduce noise a lot.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5317073 - 07/14/12 08:13 AM

You also might want to consider a 2 inch adapter that screws directly onto the camera here at scopestuff
http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_c2bf.htm


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5317327 - 07/14/12 11:57 AM

I'll eventually use a 3.3 reducer(looking for one) with my CPC1100. To connect the camera i will use a 1.25 diagonal to sct adapter then connect the nosepiece to it.For now i will be stacking 6.5 reducer with a 0.5. In both case i need a nosepiece. This will also be cheaper while i can get a nosepiece for 5 $ at xagyl communcation.

Thanks anyway!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5317703 - 07/14/12 03:48 PM

Quote:

I'll eventually use a 3.3 reducer(looking for one) with my CPC1100. To connect the camera i will use a 1.25 diagonal to sct adapter then connect the nosepiece to it.




That isn't likely to work out really well. The 1.25" visual back and diagonal will add too much distance between the f3.3 reducer and the sensor in the camera. Ideally the spacing should be 57mm or so. Much more than 60mm and the image quality really starts to degrade.

Since you have a fork mounted CPC you will likely really want to keep a diagonal in the picture. Using a diagonal for spacing with something other than the f6.3 reducer can be tough (too much spacing). For more reduction than the f6.3 reducer I'd consider either a 2" .5x reducer on a 2" to 1.25" adapter inserted into the 2" diagonal or the Mallincam MFR-5 reducer in place of a 1.25" nose piece.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5318036 - 07/14/12 08:32 PM

I found this while looking at the other and I think it is the same specifications only in a smaller Body??
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-WDR-OSD-3D-DNR/207182_583938938.html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5318100 - 07/14/12 09:35 PM

Looks awfully close ... but there's no remote control capability (RS485 connection),

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5318223 - 07/14/12 11:25 PM

I use a meade f3.3 reducer with my ns11gps- similar to your scope and you do need a diagonal...the trick is to put the reducer behind the diagonal. I use a 2" diagonal to scope then a sct to 2" adaper barrell on bottom of reducer into diagonal. Top of reducer has 1.25" sct visual back with the threaded part hacked off. Camera nosepiece goes into this.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5319030 - 07/15/12 03:38 PM

I ordered the smaller version as shown in the previous post. I know it does not have remote connections, however I have lived without one for some time and I do like the compact design. I'll let everyone know how it fairs as a comparison.

Edited by John59 (07/15/12 03:39 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5319109 - 07/15/12 04:46 PM

We have bits and pieces of what settings to use. Hemmi or anyone else should make one post of the best suggested settings and how to get that IR filter off rather than use a cigarette lighter.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5322950 - 07/18/12 12:46 AM

Seem that it could work :


http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4225154/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/8/o/all

In any cases, i need a nose eyepiece and i already have the 1.25 diagonal adatper. If it don't work i might try a different way.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5322956 - 07/18/12 12:51 AM

Seems that i've the same problem that James have. I just cannot set the camera to 1024x. I tried to set the sensup to off but it doesn't change a anything. The sensup seems to be limited to 256x. I guess you set the camera to Day time ? The camera model seems to be right: ln-320-rj11-473

Here a small video that i made showing my settings:

http://youtu.be/u4XqZOZ0aA0

Any ideas?

Thanks


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5322963 - 07/18/12 01:01 AM

I think that you got the same camera that I did. I sent an e-mail to the girl that I purchased it from and she is sending me a new camera with the right settings, I hope. She let me keep the old camera and I had to spend another $40.00 for the new camera so now I will have 2 cameras!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5322965 - 07/18/12 01:05 AM

You don't set sense-up in sense-up function- you leave that to off- you set sense-up in the lens function- make sense (up)?

You are just leaving your lens at 1/50- you should set that to x1024 by moving selection to the left.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5322991 - 07/18/12 01:46 AM

Well, if you check my video i think its precisely what i'm doing. Sensup is set to off and i the shutter set to 1/50.There is probably something that i'm missing, but i can't get it to do 1024x. I've been playing with thing for about 3 hours.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5322994 - 07/18/12 01:52 AM

Does the lens setting needs to be set to electronic? From what i understand, yes. However, even if i change the shutter speed it does'nt trigger the 1024x. Does the exposure mode matter ? I usually set it to HLI. I tried every freaking possibility and the only way i can get the sensup to work is by setting it using the sensup option and i can only get 256x.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5323001 - 07/18/12 02:06 AM

Go to where you have it to 1/50 and move setting to the left

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5323013 - 07/18/12 02:28 AM

1. Does the lens setting needs to be set to electronic?
=Doesn't matter

2. However, even if i change the shutter speed it does'nt trigger the 1024x.

=Shutter speed IS the x1024

3. Does the exposure mode matter ? I usually set it to HLI.
=HLI, WDR, Noraml will work

4. I tried every freaking possibility and the only way i can get the sensup to work is by setting it using the sensup option and i can only get 256x.

=No- LEAVE sensup OFF all the time- never turn it on never never never- set sensup through the shutter speed ONLY.

Hope this clears it up :-)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5323014 - 07/18/12 02:29 AM

If i go to the left in the electronic lens option , it set the shutter to "auto". There is auto, 1\50, 1\100 and so on. The other lens option is DC iris.Does your is limited to 256x when you sent the sensup in the sensup option?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5323017 - 07/18/12 02:32 AM

Quote:

If i go to the left in the electronic lens option , it set the shutter to "auto". There is auto, 1\50, 1\100 and so on. The other lens option is DC iris.Does your is limited to 256x when you sent the sensup in the sensup option?




Keep going MORE to the left more more more- till you see x1024

I'll make a video for you shortly if this doesn't make it clear.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5323019 - 07/18/12 02:35 AM

You said:
Quote:

Does your is limited to 256x when you sent the sensup in the sensup option?




Yes it is- that is why I would never set sensup through the sensup function!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5323029 - 07/18/12 02:43 AM

There is no 1024x. the only option on the left is the auto, after that it start at 1/50. I must be blind or tired but it doesn't seem to be there.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5323061 - 07/18/12 03:48 AM

Maybe I am wrong- maybe they use the same model number for different cameras- anyway - check out the video and see if a light switch goes off:

lntech exposure settings youtube


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5323269 - 07/18/12 09:13 AM

Great video. I still could not get to 1024x

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5323429 - 07/18/12 11:04 AM

Bummer- hope your 2nd camera does the trick.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5324185 - 07/18/12 09:48 PM

still *BLEEP* summer weather here, so no chance to test the camera more. Has anyone had a chance to get this camera under the stars for more testing?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5324297 - 07/18/12 11:31 PM

No manual sensup option in the lens options.That, even if i turn off sensup. Is there anything that could trigger the manual sensup option? Did you change something else other than setting the sensup option to off? Next step will be to contact the seller.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5324306 - 07/18/12 11:42 PM

jambi- are you signed up on nightskies network to broadcast? I would like to see your problem in action if possible...

I don't believe I made any other changes.

but will post all my settings in a bit..or I will go on nightskies if you are around and can watch


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5324338 - 07/19/12 12:19 AM

Not now, but i eventually will broadcast.I'm still a newbie hehe. Here an other video of the lens settings. Notice that there is no arrow beside the auto mode.That mean that there is not other available options even if i go left.That, with the sensup set to off.

Lntech settings


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5324401 - 07/19/12 02:07 AM

Yeah- I see it- very weird- I spent a while trying to force this to happen on my camera by changing settings around- but didn't change the ability to set lens to x1024.

Now, if it makes you feel better, I can't get my camera to display color- it is now only b/w no matter how I change the day/night setting or color settings and I have done a factory reset/ powered down etc-


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5324904 - 07/19/12 11:52 AM

Quote:

still *BLEEP* summer weather here, so no chance to test the camera more. Has anyone had a chance to get this camera under the stars for more testing?




What do you mean? Forecast looks great for tonight. White on the chart is good right?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5325017 - 07/19/12 01:01 PM

Ok, i contacted the reseller(thanks for is quick response and kindness ) and apparently me and James have ordered the camera the same day. The guy said that they probably forgot to update the camera firmware. I also remember he said these camera are made directly from factory when ordered. I'll have to pay 40 $ to get a new one. Well, i don't mind. Even at 113$ it still really cheap. I guess i can still use the other one for planetary.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5331595 - 07/23/12 03:57 PM

Finally got the right camera with x1024. Hated to heat the IR filter but could find no other way to get it off. I worry that all that heat will damage the chip.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5331641 - 07/23/12 04:22 PM

Great, now get us some pics of the sky..I wish I could but it has been cloudy and humid for 2 weeks now

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5331650 - 07/23/12 04:26 PM

Its been that way too here on the East Coast. Tomorrow is supposed to be better so I will see.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5331717 - 07/23/12 04:53 PM

It wasn't cloudy last night. It was very humid though. Actually transparency was surprisingly good last night as long as the scope didn't dew up.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5331837 - 07/23/12 06:06 PM

It may not have been cloudy in North Carolina but it was cloudy in Maryland near the Chesapeake Bay. But yes, it was a lot of dew too.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5332047 - 07/23/12 08:35 PM

The smaller version I ordered came in today. Initial hook up for 1024 verification and to understnad the menu has gone very well. The menu is fairly straight forward and if it remains clear I should get sone screen captures tonight. I will be using my XT12G Dob. I'll post the results most likely tomorrow.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5332066 - 07/23/12 08:45 PM

How did you get the IR filter off? We are looking forward to your images. Its cloudy again here tonight.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5332093 - 07/23/12 09:02 PM

I have not removed the IR filter yet. I will probaly have to wait until the weekend when I can take my time with it. Tonight I just want to see its ability as compared to my Samsung SCB-2000

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5332106 - 07/23/12 09:07 PM

I have both cameras too so I am really interested in your comparison images.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5332389 - 07/24/12 12:19 AM

First light with the minicamera was very good in the end. Learning the setup is a challenge and very different from the SCB-2000. After several attempts on M57 I finally started to get good color response. However that commercial IR filter has got to go! The menu is a bit much to have to wade through but once the important stuff is figured out, it goes pretty swiftly. I only had the time to work on M57 and M56 but I am very satisfied with this and it is a keeper. It is much more sensitive than the SCB-2000, but much more difficult to operate. This camera is also only operated by the button pad on the rear of the camera. This camera is very small and the inside button next to the video BNC out is a tight fit to reach. This is however the only complaint I have of this camera. I will post the snapshots I took tonight tomorrow. These will be just that, snapshots, not stacked post processed.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5332614 - 07/24/12 07:24 AM

Let us know what your settings for the best shots.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5332782 - 07/24/12 09:50 AM

Can't wait to see the images, and settings used

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5333068 - 07/24/12 01:00 PM

Quote:

Can't wait to see the images, and settings used




Knock on Wood. However, tomorrow night is starting to look a lot better than any other night has this month. Are you going to do any observing this week before the moon puts a damper on things later in the week?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5333146 - 07/24/12 01:48 PM

Prob not, traveling the rest of the week. weekends are it for me for awhile. Just hoping for a good weekend soon

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5333430 - 07/24/12 04:40 PM

Quote:

Prob not, traveling the rest of the week. weekends are it for me for awhile. Just hoping for a good weekend soon




Sorry to hear that.

Need to hope for a good "Moonless" weekend. I think the moon will be out throughout this weekend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5333736 - 07/24/12 08:01 PM

Cool, hopefully I'll have mine this week.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5334019 - 07/24/12 11:53 PM Attachment (159 downloads)

Well got the pesky IR filter off and yes it takes heat. however I used a hot air gun used in applying heat srink and it popped off very cleanly. I also tried it out tonight after removing the filter so I have before and after photo of M57 using the same telescope and site.
After getting the filter off the setup changed concerning the the ability to get color. Still need to do a lot of tweaking but the snapshots show a lot of promise. Taken through my 12 inch Goto Dob. I did have to use a WideBand imaging filter due to the light pollution in my area.
Here is the snapshot before removing the IR filter. Focus is soft but I was in a bit of a rush to not be out to late during the work week.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5334027 - 07/24/12 11:58 PM Attachment (177 downloads)

Here it is with IR filter removed. There is still a lot of adjustments to make to clean it up and get the color better balanced. The camera does show Promise. If the weather stays clear I should get some good quality time with it this weekend. Remember this is the mini-camera version and not the original that started this topic. The sensor is the same and the menu is also.

Edited by John59 (07/25/12 12:14 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5334063 - 07/25/12 12:39 AM

Great ! Thanks John. Did you process the image ? It look pretty clean to me. Is this 1024 x?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5334073 - 07/25/12 12:48 AM

No processing of any kind. Single snapshot of the screen. Yes it is X1024. There are other settings that will make the image much brighter. Some to the point of blowing out the ring. I see a lot of potential for this camera.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5334263 - 07/25/12 07:13 AM

How many seconds was this image?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5334390 - 07/25/12 09:40 AM

There is no documentation stating exactly what 1024 is in relationship to time. It is however all about sensitivity.
Here is a source I found.

http://www.cctvdynamics.com/what-is-sense-up-an-introduction-to-and-explanation-of-the-most-misunderstood-security-camera-feature.html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5334838 - 07/25/12 01:35 PM

If you want to know how long is the exposure, simply count seconds between image updates. This is easy if you stop tracking the target...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
StarmanDan
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5335316 - 07/25/12 06:21 PM

Quote:

Also got wireless rs-485 working with the OSD. So that will help speed the testing.




What software is recommended for RS-485 control?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5336952 - 07/26/12 04:23 PM

Not bad at all for that focal length. Glad to see the noise is not that bad. If you have time can you share what settings you used. Thanks

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5336956 - 07/26/12 04:27 PM

Quote:

How many seconds was this image?




for NTSC the calculation is 1024(SENS UP) * .01667(1/50) = 17.06 sec
for PAL the calculation is 1024(SENS UP) * .02(1/50) = 20.48 sec


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5336961 - 07/26/12 04:30 PM

Thats almost as good as my Mallincam which uses a less sensitive chip. I get a slightly brighter image at 15 seconds.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5337792 - 07/27/12 01:41 AM

Hemmi,
In your first formula for the NTSC camera, the duration of 0.01667 seconds corresponds to 1/60, not 1/50.

Incidentally, the inclusion in brackets of the two explanatory terms ("SENS UP", and "1/60" and "1/50" in each formula can be confusing; best to leave them out, in case someone tries to do the math with them.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5340436 - 07/28/12 05:47 PM

Folks, after spending a few hours yesterday and now today on the topic of 'all sky' cameras, my Google searches have led me to your *very* interesting discussion

After researching the Orion StarShoot Allsky and Moonglow Technology AllSky Cam, and concluding that I could not afford/justify either one, and then becoming even more depressed when seeing the images from the Alcor Systems All Sky camera, I stumbled across discussions of those that have used the Samsung SDC-435/SCB-2000 (affordable!) and SCB-4000 (not affordable!) video cameras for this purpose. Then I wanted to know if even more recent tech had been discovered, and found myself here

I realize that there are a couple of big steps between merely ordering a security camera like the Aliexpress ones, and acquiring the appropriate lens (fisheye in my case) and climate-proof enclosure to pull this off -- but for around $75 CDN to get started, it is attractive.

Questions so far:

- Is the conclusion so far that *both* the Aliexpress cameras are identical electronically -- just the size being different?
- Sounds like these are superior in price and features compared to the Samsung cameras?
- Anything special I need to do to insure that X1024 mode works?
- Is there anything I need to be aware or careful of if I intend to have this running 24x7 pointed at the sky?

As a favor, can one of you guys just point up into the clear night sky with a 'normal view' lens so that I/we can see how sensitive they are for picking up stars? My assumption is that no one has a fisheye lens to test with (hmmm...I have a Nikon Coolpix FC-E8 fisheye lens -- wonder if I could make it work somehow?).

Thanks


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
StarmanDan
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5342233 - 07/29/12 07:20 PM

I've used an SCB-2000 as an all sky cam and can attest that is works very well as such. Here is a shot from last year during the Perseids. Being in a green zone, the Milky Way is clearly obvious and stars down to about 3rd mag are visible with a 1/2 sec exposure.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: StarmanDan]
      #5342765 - 07/30/12 03:05 AM

I have used a Fisheye on my Samsung SCC-A2333/SCB-4000 in absolutely dark sky (I live out in the country in Australia) and found that anything over x256 was getting too bright.

The brightness of the Milky way was striking.
But in skies with light pollution you would get a different result.

Sorry I never grabbed any images while using the Fisheye.
I must do that in case more people want to know
I will also use it with the mallincam to see the difference.

Now, to wait until the thing called 'clear sky' returns one day


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5343184 - 07/30/12 11:13 AM

Perhaps the astronomy gods will at the very least give you a break on your birthday Ken.



Happy birthday to the "nasty" moderator (aka Captain Cloud) ... you're doing a great job.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5343771 - 07/30/12 04:31 PM

Thanks for the fisheye image posting, and also the offer to get/post another one.

To answer just one of my own questions, the Nikon FC-E8 lens is (I think) 8mm focal length, so even if it were possible to attach it to a C-mount video camera, it would no longer be the 'fisheye' that I was looking for (I think).

From lots of Googling, though, it doesn't look that difficult to find inexpensive (cheap?) fisheye lenses with C/CS mounts:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/320939352394?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-designed-wide-angle-1-58mm-IR-lens-mega-pixel-panoramic-lens-board-camera-lens/314425_523843593.html

Am I correct?

It just might be possible for me to achieve a basic 'all view' video solution for under $100 CDN, which would be great. Still waiting for more feedback, though. Also very concerned that removal of the IR filter (if really necessary for my goal) is much more difficult/risky that is apparently is with the good old SDC-435/SCB-2000

Edited by darethehair (07/30/12 04:42 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
StarmanDan
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5343883 - 07/30/12 05:50 PM

The lenses you listed would work but because of the lack of auto iris you might want to fashion some sort of cover for the lens during the day to keep the sun from burning the sensor.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5344085 - 07/30/12 07:48 PM

Happy birthday kent!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5344608 - 07/31/12 02:43 AM

The FC-E8 fisheye is an afocal converter, meaning it can be adapted to many lenses already attached to cameras. The only three requirements are:

- That the two lenses can be 'interfaced' properly. The camera's lens must be able to be placed sufficiently near to the add-on lens.
- That the camera's lens have a sufficiently wide field to take in the full circular image produced by the add-on lens.
- That the camera's lens be not too physically large; but this by itself is not necessarily a deal breaker.

Before seeking out a C-mount fisheye, first try out your Nikon with a 'normal' lens of fast f/ratio; I think it should work well.

Note that with afocal add-on lenses, as long as its rear lens is sufficiently large with respect to the camera lens's entrance pupil, the system works at the f/ratio set on the camera's lens. So if you obtain, say, a 6mm f/1.3, the fisheye when attached will be working at f/1.3.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5345818 - 07/31/12 06:27 PM

A couple of new points:

- So far I have only been able to find one 'fisheye' CS-mount lens with auto iris, and the approximate cost (sadly) is about $86USD:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/432782989/Auto_Iris_Lens_1_31mm_Auto.html

However, the manufacturer tells me that their 'fixed iris' fisheye lens line has much better optics (and they are also quite a bit cheaper), so my desire for an 'all sky' fisheye lens with the safety of an auto iris seems expensive *and* a compromise for image quality

- I had kind of assumed that AliExpress used 'PayPal', but instead they use an 'Escrow' service. Since some of you guys have obviously used this successfully, is this just a matter of registering/using a credit card just like any other online purchase?

EDIT: Still hoping for some consumer advise re: my last question here. Don't want to get 'burned' doing the wrong thing, or even worse someone racking up my credit card bill in fraud

Edited by darethehair (08/02/12 10:24 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5345855 - 07/31/12 07:00 PM

Quote:

I ordered the smaller version as shown in the previous post. I know it does not have remote connections, however I have lived without one for some time and I do like the compact design. I'll let everyone know how it fairs as a comparison.




John, I have noticed that the power port on the smaller model (that you purchased) is not the stripped wire ('speaker wire style') that the larger model is. Instead, it looks like a plug ('laptop power plug style'). Am I correct?

Also, knowing that there is no RS485 control in the smaller model is causing me a bit of a quandary (not knowing very much at all about this interface) -- what are we potentially 'giving up' by this? I realize that this means physically pushing buttons, rather than (possibly) controlling using software at a PC -- but why would I want to do so? Also, I do not understand if this means running another wire down to the PC, or is this somehow carried along the video cable? Sorry for my ignorance!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5345919 - 07/31/12 07:49 PM

To use the RS485, you will need a power source. If you have a Celestron mount, you can purchase a security camera power splitter. If you have a Meade mount, you will need to get the same power splitter but you will need one of those tips that plug into the Celestron size and has a Meade size on the other end. I have done both. If you need web sites, let me know.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5346025 - 07/31/12 09:22 PM

Jim,

There are RS485 to RS232 adapters that don't require external power. They get their power from the RS232 side but the software that controls the RS232 serial port must enable handshaking so the higher voltage lines are enabled.

I have an RS485 adapter on my Mallincam (green led) that doesn't require external power, it works great as long as the right software is used with it.

With the Samsung and Sony security cameras I don't know the particulars of the various options that control the camera (PC software or external hand box) so I don't know what choices folks will have.


Celestron power plugs are 2.1mm x 5.5mm, Meade are 2.5mm x 5.5mm


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5346033 - 07/31/12 09:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I ordered the smaller version as shown in the previous post. I know it does not have remote connections, however I have lived without one for some time and I do like the compact design. I'll let everyone know how it fairs as a comparison.




John, I have noticed that the power port on the smaller model (that you purchased) is not the stripped wire ('speaker wire style') that the larger model is. Instead, it looks like a plug ('laptop power plug style'). Am I correct?

Also, knowing that there is no RS485 control in the smaller model is causing me a bit of a quandary (not knowing very much at all about this interface) -- what are we potentially 'giving up' by this? I realize that this means physically pushing buttons, rather than (possibly) controlling using software at a PC -- but why would I want to do so? Also, I do not understand if this means running another wire down to the PC, or is this somehow carried along the video cable? Sorry for my ignorance!





It is the standard 12VDC connection found in any Radio Shack store. Which I do like better than the two wire lug type. I have a case dedicated to power set ups and have several of the Car AUX 12VDC adapters with cables (what used to be called cigarette lighter adapters)

The second question is that the only thing you give up without having a remote is not having to touch the camera. Some folks do not like touching the telescope/camera once in position. Many reasons (damping time etc.) but it has simply never been an issue for me.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5347986 - 08/02/12 12:17 AM

Well played around with it quite a bit more tonight.
Lessons learned:
1. Camera will default back to last saved settings if you leave it unattended. i.e. I made some setting and while observing it suddenly reset and was back to a previous setting from another night. Now I exit and save after every change.
2. using Alberio for color reference I found that ATW with R-Y and B-Y set to max 255 gave good colors of the gold and blue.
3. Leave SENSE UP to OFF
4. Use ELECTRIC I to get all exposure ranges from 1/100000 up to X1024.
5. BIG find...make sure GAMMA is set to 1. Anything else is just too bright and washes out the screen.
6. Not sure about the AGC. Tried all settings LOW/MIDDLE/HIGH and did not see a difference. Will continue with this another night.
7. Seemed to do better with WB imaging filter. However was pleasently surprised with how well it performed with a full moon in the sky.
More later.

Edited by John59 (08/02/12 12:18 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348291 - 08/02/12 08:02 AM

Thats what we need - some real testing. What is a WB filter?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5348322 - 08/02/12 08:31 AM

Wide Band. He's referring to a light pollution filter versus a Narrowband (Ha, SII, OIII).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348340 - 08/02/12 08:45 AM

What about the other settings. What did you set the brightness level on? And what about the Exposure? Thanks.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348468 - 08/02/12 10:22 AM

Quote:


3. Leave SENSE UP to OFF





This one is very puzzling to me! If 'ELECTRIC' does what is intended (re: X1024), then what does 'SENSE UP' do?

Of course your findings are extremely useful, but even better would be something to explain *what* these various settings do, even if you have determined which ones to use or not use.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5348609 - 08/02/12 12:11 PM

Hi guys - I've trawled every 200+ posts on this cam thread looking for some sample DSO pics via this cam - any luck yet or should I stay to my Lodestar ?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5348692 - 08/02/12 01:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:


3. Leave SENSE UP to OFF





This one is very puzzling to me! If 'ELECTRIC' does what is intended (re: X1024), then what does 'SENSE UP' do?






Sense Up- the function- creates a limit for automatic exposure- it tells the camera how far to go when it is trying to automatically expose the image.

In lens (ie- ELECTRONIC) you are setting it manually and the camera does not 'hunt around' trying to correctly expose.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5348756 - 08/02/12 01:44 PM

The brightness setting has always been set to zero.
For now until I can figure out if AGC requires another menu combination it is set to LOW
I took several snapshots and video of M57 last night but have not gone through them. That will be tonight with posting afterwards. I am staying with M57 for now to look for changes both good or bad while I learn and understand the cameras menu/setups and best combinations. Once I am satisfied with M57 I will move on to another object with different visual requirements and see what changes the camera requires.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348904 - 08/02/12 03:31 PM

More questions:

- Did you guys order with regular 'HK Post Air Mail' or 'DHL'? As a Canadian, it sure looks like DHL would slap an additional 'brokerage' fee of between $7 and $15 (from Google searches) on top of the shipping fee

- What effect is removal of the IR filter have on 'daytime/regular' imagery? I would not imagine that it would have any (negative) effect on the color or whatever, but you guys can tell me for sure

Thanks


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349091 - 08/02/12 05:28 PM

The guy who sells them has free shipping from China.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349149 - 08/02/12 06:12 PM

Quote:

What effect is removal of the IR filter have on 'daytime/regular' imagery? I would not imagine that it would have any (negative) effect on the color or whatever, but you guys can tell me for sure




Well- I have not taken mine off so I cannot tell you for sure- and this partiucular filter- to my eye at least looks fairly mild- it does not have the deep blue color of other low pass filters I have seen on CCTVs- anyway, in general if you take these off then your color images will shift towards looking red and you have to manually adjust the color balace back.

Also- for night viewing you will need to add back in a uv/ir cut filter designed for astronomy or use a mirror only system (no reducer) and still have to manually color balance- this is in regards to IR bloat on stars.

You can take off the filter and use cctv lenses but you have to make sure they are IR corrected lenses.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
budman1961
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/25/11

Loc: Springfield, MO
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5349172 - 08/02/12 06:30 PM

Maurice,

Based on the tribulations so far, I cant imagine selling my rock-steady lodestar for this camera....... Maybe im wrong, it seems that the cam isnt up to the task!

Andy


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: budman1961]
      #5349251 - 08/02/12 07:35 PM

The debate is still out, but I agree...No reason to buy or change. Alot more testing needs to be done on these cams before any real determination can be made.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5349300 - 08/02/12 08:42 PM

Quote:

Well- I have not taken mine off so I cannot tell you for sure- and this partiucular filter- to my eye at least looks fairly mild- it does not have the deep blue color of other low pass filters I have seen on CCTVs- anyway, in general if you take these off then your color images will shift towards looking red and you have to manually adjust the color balace back.




Am I correct in assuming that the manual 'color balance' adjustments on the camera are sufficient to restore a 'normal' view in the absence of the IR filter i.e. for daytime viewing?

Quote:

Also- for night viewing you will need to add back in a uv/ir cut filter designed for astronomy or use a mirror only system (no reducer) and still have to manually color balance- this is in regards to IR bloat on stars.




Forgive my ignorance (again), but could you elaborate? I thought that everyone was trying to *remove* the IR filter for the purposes of enhanced astronomical views?

Quote:

You can take off the filter and use cctv lenses but you have to make sure they are IR corrected lenses.




I'll have to look for those filters -- I cannot imagine that they would be expensive to purchase (?).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349315 - 08/02/12 08:50 PM

FYI:

I contacted Elaine, the contact person mentioned on the pages for these cameras, asking her a few extra questions (very helpful and friendly!) and one of her answers surprised me, and she gave me permission to post the following statement with her OK:

Elaine has offered the option of ordering either one of these X1024 cameras without the IR filter installed if we send her a note requesting it that way.

In my opinion, this makes these cameras even more attractive than they already are to the video astronomy community

Comments? Any reason NOT to do this, especially if it can be somehow compensated (in a much more flexible way) via color balance setting on the camera, or purchase of some add-on filter?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349521 - 08/02/12 11:25 PM Attachment (139 downloads)

Yes, Elaine is great!
Here is my results from last night.
The Ring in full frame.
This and following photos are with the 12inch dob, WB filter and in the city under street lights and a well lighted school across the street.
The upper left glow is from street lamps not amp glow. other shots do not have the glow that are pointing away from the light source.
Can not wait until darker skies site this Friday.

Edited by John59 (08/02/12 11:35 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5349523 - 08/02/12 11:26 PM Attachment (101 downloads)

The ring a little more exposure and cropped.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5349525 - 08/02/12 11:27 PM Attachment (115 downloads)

Here is Alberio. Used to adjust color scaling

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349588 - 08/03/12 12:44 AM

Quote:


1. Am I correct in assuming that the manual 'color balance' adjustments on the camera are sufficient to restore a 'normal' view in the absence of the IR filter i.e. for daytime viewing?


2.Forgive my ignorance (again), but could you elaborate? I thought that everyone was trying to *remove* the IR filter for the purposes of enhanced astronomical views?

3.I'll have to look for those filters -- I cannot imagine that they would be expensive to purchase (?).





To answer:

1. In theory yes- in other cameras it works this way but with this one not sure yet- not sure yet what the optimal settings are- in one of the manual modes with this camera color balance is locked out- hope that is not the optimal exposure mode....

2. Well, yes- that is correct- but it is not REALLY an IR filter that is being removed- it is an optical low pass filter that happens to block IR- it is not optimized for Astronomy and may block some other stuff we want (Like HA). Very specific to lens systems though is the issue of IR bloat (or UV bloat) - the way lenses bend light is different than the way mirrors bend light - and with lenses the different wavelengths come to focus at different points- there are specific lenses that are designed to correct for this or you use a filter that is designed specific for astro purposes.

3. I think the Astronomik branded uv/ir cut filter (also called a luminance filter) is around $30 in the 1.25 " size- others may be more like 40-50 or more depending on the brand. I have used the Astronik one and thought it was fine.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5351945 - 08/04/12 04:19 PM

Had a long session with the camera last night with the Austin Dam Astronomers (we observe at Mansfield Dam overlook) and I am completely sold on the mini version of this camera. The Swan was absolutely stunning, as we all stared at the high resolution color display. The nebulosity detail with the gas cloud shadowy folds and reflected surfaces were awesome! Globs and Clusters were bright and tight! For the 12 inch Goto Dob this camera works great! I have all my settings saved and will put together a document soon.
Next scope to use is the ES AR152 fefractor.

HOWEVER we placed this camera into a 11 inch SCT and the results were VERY Different.
Without using a focal reducer the magnification was entirely too much for the camera. The Ring was so over powered by noise that only the outer red band could be detected to know we were on target. No setting would change the noise levels.
Once we placed a .5 reducer in place it was much better but still issues with noise. However once I placed the reducer on a 1 inch extension tube everything fell into place. The image was bright and the Ring very pronounced in detail and color.
After the experience we realized that no filters were in place and the moon being pretty high by then may have been a contributor to the noise. ( not noise just sky glow being magnified as well).

As a result of the great success from last night, members of the club have already ordered their cameras today.

Clear skies everyone!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5352037 - 08/04/12 05:52 PM

Quote:

Had a long session with the camera last night with the Austin Dam Astronomers (we observe at Mansfield Dam overlook) and I am completely sold on the mini version of this camera. The Swan was absolutely stunning, as we all stared at the high resolution color display. The nebulosity detail with the gas cloud shadowy folds and reflected surfaces were awesome! Globs and Clusters were bright and tight! For the 12 inch Goto Dob this camera works great! I have all my settings saved and will put together a document soon.
Next scope to use is the ES AR152 fefractor.

HOWEVER we placed this camera into a 11 inch SCT and the results were VERY Different.
Without using a focal reducer the magnification was entirely too much for the camera. The Ring was so over powered by noise that only the outer red band could be detected to know we were on target. No setting would change the noise levels.
Once we placed a .5 reducer in place it was much better but still issues with noise. However once I placed the reducer on a 1 inch extension tube everything fell into place. The image was bright and the Ring very pronounced in detail and color.
After the experience we realized that no filters were in place and the moon being pretty high by then may have been a contributor to the noise. ( not noise just sky glow being magnified as well).

As a result of the great success from last night, members of the club have already ordered their cameras today.

Clear skies everyone!




Any picture of the swan that you could post? Thanks


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5352158 - 08/04/12 07:20 PM

The acid test on noise levels will obtain with a target of lower surface brightness in a dark sky. A bright object under a bright sky is not ideal due to the overall high image surface brightness. Objects such as M17, M27 and M57 have quite high surface brightness already, and so will record well rather quickly. Add a bright sky, and instrumental (electronic) noise is easily supressed, unless the f/ratio is long.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5352196 - 08/04/12 07:41 PM

Sorry no recording. I was doing direct video hook up to flat screen. I really do not like going through a computer as the display does not look as good as direct feed. At least in my experience that has been the case with my current equipment. ( processing by capture device, processing by computer before display.)

Edited by John59 (08/04/12 07:42 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5352355 - 08/04/12 10:05 PM

Quote:

As a result of the great success from last night, members of the club have already ordered their cameras today.




Interesting! Are they going to take advantage of that new offer to order without IR filter?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5352467 - 08/04/12 11:52 PM Attachment (145 downloads)

Here are to captures from my short viewing session tonight. I had a Bad quick alignment and poor seeing, with a bright moon.

Swan

Exposure mode - HLI
Lens - electric
x64
Brightness = 9
AGC= HIGH

Edited by Hemmi (08/05/12 09:22 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5352469 - 08/04/12 11:54 PM Attachment (134 downloads)

Lagoon

Exposure mode - HLI
Lens - electric
x128
Brightness = 9
AGC= Middle

Edited by Hemmi (08/05/12 09:18 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5352476 - 08/04/12 11:56 PM

Last shot was soft because of dew

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sky Captain
Metal Whisperer
*****

Reged: 11/07/04

Loc: Loc: Loc:
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5352501 - 08/05/12 12:22 AM

Quote:

Sorry no recording. I was doing direct video hook up to flat screen. I really do not like going through a computer as the display does not look as good as direct feed. At least in my experience that has been the case with my current equipment. ( processing by capture device, processing by computer before display.)




You don't have to have a recording to post pictures, just take a screen shot with a P&S camera. This will certainly help to evaluate any live images taken with this camera.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5352700 - 08/05/12 07:05 AM

The RS485 adapter used by the Mallincam has a dedicated plug that Rock put onto the camera. There is no place to plug that type of connection on the Lyntech camera.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5352703 - 08/05/12 07:09 AM

Don't forget to post ALL of the settings you used to get those shots.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5353005 - 08/05/12 11:54 AM

Quote:

The RS485 adapter used by the Mallincam has a dedicated plug that Rock put onto the camera. There is no place to plug that type of connection on the Lyntech camera.



No, actually the RS485 adapter offered by Zenginering (who does the cables for the Mallincams) has standard DB9 in and out connectors ... there's nothing Mallincam specific about it. This RS485 adapter connects to a Mallincam control cable which has the DB9 connector at one end and the 8pin mini DIN connector on the other (which plugs into the camera). So it's the cable that has the Mallincam specific connector.

To use the Mallincam supplied RS485 adapter with the Lyntech camera you would use a small DB9 connector and create a little pigtail with two wires (for the Tx and Rx lines) that would connect to the terminal block on the Lyntech camera. You could also make these wires very long (up to 4000') if required.

The power could either come from the RS232 side or off of the +12v supplied at the camera side (this would require another pair of wires for 12v and GND) but that would be easy to do.

If someone was buying an RS485 adapter to use with the Lyntech camera it would indeed be better to get one with the small terminal block on one end instead of the second DB9 connector ... this way you could simply wire the terminal block on the camera to the terminal block on the RS485 adapter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5353061 - 08/05/12 12:27 PM

I don't understand how the control cable could hook up to this camera. There is no jack to plug the control cable into the camera.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5353107 - 08/05/12 12:57 PM

Jim,

You're correct ... you can't use the Mallincam control cable itself. But if you have the Mallincam supplied RS485 adapter on it's own you could wire up your own little cable if you started with a DB9 connector ... OR if you were buying a new RS485 adapter then you'd get the model the little terminal strip on it and just wire that to the terminal strip on the camera.

Here is a picture and info on a model that has both the DB9 connectors and a small add on terminal strip connector.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5353312 - 08/05/12 03:01 PM

The other problem you would have is what software would control it?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5353357 - 08/05/12 03:31 PM

Quote:

Sorry no recording. I was doing direct video hook up to flat screen. I really do not like going through a computer as the display does not look as good as direct feed. At least in my experience that has been the case with my current equipment. ( processing by capture device, processing by computer before display.)


Glad John you had a good session from a dark site - we respect your no recording/ sample images to post via that very neat CCTV

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John Miele
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/29/05

Loc: North Alabama
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5358273 - 08/08/12 03:24 PM

Hi,
Is this still the right camera everyone is talking about here…?

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/577569401-Free-shipping-High-Resolution-1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-wholesalers.html

If I order one of these cameras, I believe do I need to do the following to get up and running:

1. Remove the built in IR filter
2. Buy a 1.25" nose piece (will this one work? …

http://agenaastro.com/blue-fireball-1-25-c-mount-video-camera-adapter.html

3. Buy a power supply (anyone know what type and where from?)

Is there anything else to do or aquire (besides the video cable and connector and the monitor)?

Thanks…John

Edited by John Miele (08/08/12 11:27 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John Miele]
      #5358359 - 08/08/12 04:08 PM

That is the right camera. Your URL to Agena did not go through but they do sell them. Its the same 1.25 adapter that the Mallincam and Stellarcam uses. They can also be found at ScopeStuff. And yes, you will have to remove the IR filter unless when you purchase it, you tell them that you do not want the IR filter. They will not put it on if you request.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John Miele
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/29/05

Loc: North Alabama
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5358368 - 08/08/12 04:10 PM

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks! I will ask them to leave the IR filter off then. That simplfies things quite a bit.

Do you know if it comes with a power suplly? It does not appear to from reading the ad...?...John


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John Miele]
      #5358374 - 08/08/12 04:13 PM

Quote:

Hi,
Is this still the right camera everyone is talking about here…?

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/577569401-Free-shipping-High-Resolution-1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-wholesalers.html




Yes, this thread mentions two cameras with similar (but not identical) specs. The one you mentioned is the larger one (with RS485 controls). The more recent model is smaller (without RS485) and the link for it was this:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-WDR-OSD-3D-DNR/207182_583938938.html

These links appear to originate from two different companies, though perhaps they both sell the same models on different pages. For the smaller model, people (including myself) have been dealing with 'Elaine' as the contact person (Miracle Cottage International Trade Co.,Ltd). The larger model/company has a contact named 'Jock S' (Macro-Snowball International Trade Co.,Ltd).

Quote:

If I order one of these cameras, I believe do I need to do the following to get up and running:

1. Remove the built in IR filter




Yes, that is the impression that I get from reading this thread (and other places on the Net). However, if you look at one of my recent posts, you will see a great offer by 'Elaine' to avoid having the filter installed at the factory of origin -- saving the hassle/risk of doing this myself. Not sure if this is an open offer to *all* the camera models offered on her site, but it helped 'seal the deal' for me on the smaller model.

Quote:

2. Buy a 1.25" nose piece (will this one work? …

http://agenaastro.com/blue-fireball-1-25-c-mount-video-camera-adapter.html)




That link doesn't work for me, but here is another one to consider:

http://www.xagyl.com/store/home.php?cat=325

Quote:

3. Buy a power supply (anyone know what type and where from?)




Don't know about this one, except '12v with the type of tip that would be sold at RadioShack' (for the smaller camera model -- the other one needs bare wires). I am hoping that in my box of transformers/power adapters that I have one with the right configuration.

Quote:

Is there anything else to do or aquire (besides the video cable and connector and the monitor)?




Maybe an IR/UV cutoff filter? Unfortunately, I have not yet found inexpensive one. The best price I have found has terrible shipping charges ($25 for the filter, and $90 for shipping!):

http://www.optics-online.com/IRC.asp?PN=IRC30-25R

For me, I am still hunting down an appropriate CS-mount lens to attach.

Edited by darethehair (08/08/12 04:35 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John Miele]
      #5358378 - 08/08/12 04:15 PM

No power supply comes with the camera nor does the positive and negative wires. You will have to get those. I was afraid that I would mess up the polarity so I purchased a pigtail that had a black wire and a red wire to fit a security camera. You strip the ends and insert them into the little things on the back of the camera. They are really cheap but most of them come from China but they work perfectly.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5358382 - 08/08/12 04:20 PM

Quote:

Last shot was soft because of dew




Dew? In Raleigh? In August? Are you sure that wasn't rain? I can't believe you could image at all last night. I had nothing but clouds and rain a few miles south of where you are.

I haven't been able to image in more than 1 month. I can't remember the last time I even saw a star from my house.

October can't get here fast enough!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5358861 - 08/08/12 09:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Last shot was soft because of dew




Dew? In Raleigh? In August? Are you sure that wasn't rain? I can't believe you could image at all last night. I had nothing but clouds and rain a few miles south of where you are.

I haven't been able to image in more than 1 month. I can't remember the last time I even saw a star from my house.

October can't get here fast enough!


LOL I had about a 20 min break in the clouds..Got set up quickly and snapped those shots as the clouds rolled back in. I had maybe 10 min of viewing.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5359330 - 08/09/12 07:29 AM

Anyone use their camera to get an alignment?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
barbarosa
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: "lamorinda", CA
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5360236 - 08/09/12 04:22 PM

Quote:

Anyone use their camera to get an alignment?



Yes.

I use the finder scope to bring the first alignment target into the image. I use SharpCap and sometimes use the superimposed crosshairs to get precise centering in the image. On an A2S alignment sometimes the second star has to be brought in using the finderscope.

This works very well on my CPC925 and is easily done when a focal reducer (or stacked reducers) is in the train. It is a bit more difficult without the reducer because of the narrow FOV.

Last night I aligned on Polaris and Arcturus. Both reducers were in the train. A small adjustment brought Arcturus into the image. I did not use the software crosshairs. Go-to targets to the S, SE and near the zenith were all in the FOV and consistantly in the same area of the image.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: barbarosa]
      #5360269 - 08/09/12 04:46 PM

Ok this camera looks like a new adventure...I just ordered
the small one without i/r filter from Elane....
So ill get a chance in about 2 weeks to play around.
I plan on using a wired remote like my sdc435..
simple 4 buttons...maybe.
Im in Onekama Mi with some dark skys for test on NSN..
when I get the camera..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mega256]
      #5360375 - 08/09/12 05:46 PM

I could be wrong but someone else who purchased the small version says that the 435 capacity is not on this camera.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5360436 - 08/09/12 06:18 PM

Jimmy

From what I understand both of these 1024 cameras are almost
the same...But the mini does not have rs435 control...
I also like the small size....and will use a wired remote if
necessary....
I want the smaller lighter camera to use on my solar scope!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mega256]
      #5360479 - 08/09/12 06:51 PM

There's no such thing as rs435 ... perhaps you guys are talking about RS485?

With the small form factor camera it will likely be possible (like the Samsungs) to solder some fine wires onto the pads where the OSD buttons attach. Not easy but if you're careful definitely possible if you're comfortable working with such small delicate parts.

Edit: for better English and a little less serious

Edited by mclewis1 (08/09/12 10:24 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5360493 - 08/09/12 07:00 PM

Right Mark......rs485...I think that was what Jimmy ment,,,

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mega256]
      #5360518 - 08/09/12 07:15 PM

You are right, I meant rs435

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mega256]
      #5361230 - 08/10/12 07:50 AM

Mega256 you will be glad to know that there is an OSD cable that you can unplug from the rear board and just splice in there. No need to solder to the pads at all. The rear board is just a breakout from the main CCD board. From the main CCD board there are separate wires for power, av, osd, and iris. So just unplug the osd cable from the rear board, cut off connector and wire in your sdc-435 type wired remote.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5361524 - 08/10/12 11:16 AM

Now that's a piece of very good news ... thanks Hemmi

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5361564 - 08/10/12 11:38 AM

This little series of Sony cameras is getting closer to a product that I wish Rock (or someone) would build. I think it would be a killer product for all those folks who have Alt Az mounted scopes.

1/2" ExView HAD sensor
Low noise read amps
~30s integration times (x2048 ?)
Simple internal TEC (no fans) with basic controls (low, med, high cooling)
S-Video output (but composite only is not a show stopper)
Simple, easy to navigate menu system
Simple external wired OSD remote hand box
RS485 for remote control from a PC
$500-700 target list

And yes I know this sounds quite a bit like a color version of an inexpensive StellaCam III ... but even just a TEC upgrade to one of these Sony cameras would get quite close to the functionality I'm thinking of and at a much better price point.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5361585 - 08/10/12 11:52 AM

Quote:

Mega256 you will be glad to know that there is an OSD cable that you can unplug from the rear board and just splice in there. No need to solder to the pads at all. The rear board is just a breakout from the main CCD board. From the main CCD board there are separate wires for power, av, osd, and iris. So just unplug the osd cable from the rear board, cut off connector and wire in your sdc-435 type wired remote.




Any interest in going down to Howell Woods next week? I would love to see what your camera does in person?

The weather is finally supposed to be better on Tuesday or perhaps Wednesday.

Howell Woods is down where 40 and 95 meet so it is a bit of a drive. However, the skies are very dark compared to everywhere else around us.

Just a thought.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5361592 - 08/10/12 12:01 PM

Thanks,thats great news 4 sure...
I think I will try to use the connector for the lense...(4 pins) if I can..Depending on how the osd menu works...If it wraps around,we may get by with 4 pins...(gnd,right,up,enter)..But we may need all 6 pins...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mega256]
      #5361669 - 08/10/12 12:53 PM

Quote:

Thanks,thats great news 4 sure...
I think I will try to use the connector for the lense...(4 pins) if I can..Depending on how the osd menu works...If it wraps around,we may get by with 4 pins...(gnd,right,up,enter)..But we may need all 6 pins...




the osd cable on mine is 6 pins IIRC. 1 ground and one wire per button


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5361674 - 08/10/12 12:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Mega256 you will be glad to know that there is an OSD cable that you can unplug from the rear board and just splice in there. No need to solder to the pads at all. The rear board is just a breakout from the main CCD board. From the main CCD board there are separate wires for power, av, osd, and iris. So just unplug the osd cable from the rear board, cut off connector and wire in your sdc-435 type wired remote.




Any interest in going down to Howell Woods next week? I would love to see what your camera does in person?

The weather is finally supposed to be better on Tuesday or perhaps Wednesday.

Howell Woods is down where 40 and 95 meet so it is a bit of a drive. However, the skies are very dark compared to everywhere else around us.

Just a thought.




Maybe I can swing that. I have to see whats up with work next week. I will let you know.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5362243 - 08/10/12 07:07 PM

What wired remote are you refering to?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5362245 - 08/10/12 07:09 PM

I will be using the small camera on my refractor tonight. I will either capture on PC or photograpgh the screen. Other members of our club have received the small version and as promised by Eliane, the IR filter was removed and shipped along with the camera in a separate bage.

Edited by John59 (08/10/12 07:10 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5363294 - 08/11/12 12:43 PM

John
Alot of us have the SDC435 and use a 5 button cabled hand
controll to replace the 5 buttons on the back of the camera.
Info is locatted in the Samsung threads..
This just makes it faster and easyer to punch the buttons.
Basicaly its 5 buttons in a small box with a 6 wire cable that the wires attach to each ofthe 5 buttons and ground.

Im going to give this a try...OSD cable

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290754079840&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

Edited by mega256 (08/11/12 01:03 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5363297 - 08/11/12 12:44 PM Attachment (111 downloads)

Had a great night last night. Two other members of the club now have the small version and we set up one of those last night.
last night I placed my camera in my 152mm ES refractor and in the piggyback 80mm refractor. The results are posted in this and following posts.
Please keep in mind these are photos taken with my iphone of a display screen. So the lines you see are not present and the live view is much sharper and colorful.
There is no post processing or stacking of any kind.
Everyone was taken back with the ability of this camera. Some of the die hards are not considering a purchase.
I will post all my settings later today as I now feel confident with the settings being repeatable.
Here is the lagoon in the 152mm refractor

Edited by John59 (08/11/12 12:53 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5363300 - 08/11/12 12:46 PM Attachment (125 downloads)

Lagoon in the 80mm

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5363301 - 08/11/12 12:46 PM Attachment (97 downloads)

swan in the 152mm

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5363302 - 08/11/12 12:47 PM Attachment (101 downloads)

Trifid in the 80mm

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5363337 - 08/11/12 01:16 PM

What were your settings to get these images?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5363790 - 08/11/12 07:08 PM

Here are the settings used on my 152mm and 80mm refractors.

EXPOSURE:
EXPOSURE -Normal
SENSE UP - Off
AGC - As Required (More AGC = More Noise)
LENS - Electr. (Set as needed for integration time)
BRIGHTNESS - (Set as needed. I use 28 as standard on refractor)


COLOR:
WB MODE - Manual
Red and Blue set to your liking


DAY & NIGHT:
MODE - Day for color (Night is B/W and more sensitive)
I ignore all the other settings.


EFFECT:
MIRROR - Off
SHARPNESS - To your liking.


MOTION:
MOTION DET. - Off
Ignore all other settings.


PRIVACY:
MODE - Off
Ignore all other settings.


ENHANCE:
GAMMA - 1.0
3D DNR - Set as needed. This affects the update rate as well as noise. I turn this off when needing faster updates for focusing etc.
MONITOR - CRT/LCD as needed
DPC - Off


SYSTEM:
Here you can set the language, title the screen and several other system functions.


EXIT:
SAVE/EXIT - This is critical. If this is not performed after making changes, the camera will default back to the last save file within 30 Seconds.
Good luck

I will post processed/stacked video in the near future.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5363809 - 08/11/12 07:26 PM

Thank you so much.
Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5365752 - 08/13/12 12:35 AM

What were the exposure times and sky conditions for those images? Those images look Very good.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5366541 - 08/13/12 01:59 PM

The skies were clear, but it is a light polluted area.
Star magnitude probably limited to around 5.
However the camera is very sensitive and of the screen shots from above postings, I never went above AGC-LOW and integration time of 256. These are the two main settings that change while viewing various objects.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5371183 - 08/16/12 08:00 AM

I tried my camera for the first time last night. I was able to get fairly good clusters. I did not try for any Nebulae or Galaxies. I really want to use the camera to get alignments too. I guess I will have to bring down the exposure to around 16x for that so that it updates quickly. It takes a long time for the camera to update anything above 128x.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
gr0uch0
member
*****

Reged: 10/18/08

Loc: TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5371520 - 08/16/12 12:19 PM

Thanks a million for the settings Johnny. Do think these will vary at all (r much) depending on the type of object? That is, nebulae vs. clusters vs galaxies?

See you at the dam!

Mark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5371619 - 08/16/12 01:36 PM

Ok I think I am ready to dive in here. Can someone please check my shopping list and add/subtract from it.

1> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-WDR-OSD-3D-DNR/207182_583938938.html Get Elaine to remove the IR filter. Also do I want PAL or NTSC?

2> https://www.cameraconcepts.com/store2/product.php?productid=18500&cat=244&page=1 Reducer

3> http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_c2b1.htm C-mount to 1.25" barrel adapter.

I guess the only question I still have is controlling camera settings via my laptop computer instead of with a wired remote. If not, I see some people talking about being able to use another companies remote. What is working? Where do I buy it? Thanks

Edited by Whichwayisnorth (08/16/12 04:38 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5371687 - 08/16/12 02:31 PM

Quote:

I tried my camera for the first time last night. I was able to get fairly good clusters. I did not try for any Nebulae or Galaxies. I really want to use the camera to get alignments too. I guess I will have to bring down the exposure to around 16x for that so that it updates quickly. It takes a long time for the camera to update anything above 128x.




Is 2.1 seconds a long time?

You can always turn the integration time up so you can clearly see the object. Then turn it down to something closer to real-time and align the object based on the stars around it even if the object is no longer visible with the lower integration times.

Are most objects visible at 128x? That is really good.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
gr0uch0
member
*****

Reged: 10/18/08

Loc: TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: gr0uch0]
      #5371700 - 08/16/12 02:41 PM

BTW, I don't know if this has been posted here before (I didn't see it in this thread), but for anyone thinking of using the camera on a large-ish SCT, this came in really handy when I was setting up the Samsung on my 12". I ended up using the 3.3FR setup almost exactly as he has it. I do have a Astronomik IR filter that can be thrown into the mix as well.

Samsung SCB w/ FRs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5371779 - 08/16/12 03:41 PM

2.1 seconds is a long time if you are trying to center a star for alignment purposes. To align, you need to see the effects of your movement almost at the same time as you move the arrow key.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5371808 - 08/16/12 04:00 PM

Quote:

Ok I think I am ready to dive in here. Can someone please check my shopping list and add/subtract from it.




4) IR cut filter?

5) Optional: video capture device?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5371845 - 08/16/12 04:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ok I think I am ready to dive in here. Can someone please check my shopping list and add/subtract from it.




4) IR cut filter?




Found this one on Scopestuff http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_biru.htm
Quote:



5) Optional: video capture device?




I have a video capture device already. looks like I need a cable that runs from the camera to the capture device though. And I am still confused on the controller for it. I'll run back through the thread and see what folks came up with.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5371848 - 08/16/12 04:35 PM

I have too many IR filters. I will sell you one for $25.00 and I will provide tghe shipping. Let me know via PM.
Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5372378 - 08/16/12 11:59 PM

Quote:

Ok I think I am ready to dive in here. Can someone please check my shopping list and add/subtract from it.

1> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-WDR-OSD-3D-DNR/207182_583938938.html Get Elaine to remove the IR filter. Also do I want PAL or NTSC?

2> https://www.cameraconcepts.com/store2/product.php?productid=18500&cat=244&page=1 Reducer

3> http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_c2b1.htm C-mount to 1.25" barrel adapter.

I guess the only question I still have is controlling camera settings via my laptop computer instead of with a wired remote. If not, I see some people talking about being able to use another companies remote. What is working? Where do I buy it? Thanks




Your list looks good!
With these a capture device and computer or a mini DVR you will be ready to become an astro-videographer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5372400 - 08/17/12 12:12 AM

Hey everyone I found a mini DVR from China for $73. It does everything the Orion one does and theirs is $225. This is not a bashing for Orion as I have a lot of their equipment and I prefer them but $70 for a fully functional mini DVR is a whole lot less. Even better there is an outlet through Ebay that has them here in the U.S. for the same price. (it is where I got mine) It works great. I velcro'd it to the scope and the mini camera plugs directly into it. The recha