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Equipment Discussions >> Video and Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5427981 - 09/18/12 06:17 PM

Very cool Jack. Did you try to play with the manual color sliders in the software? Love seeing Stephan's Quintet & Deer Lick group in the same FOV.

Chris A


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5428100 - 09/18/12 07:31 PM

Jack,
I note in your NGC 7479 image a dark central spot, right on top of the nicely centered galaxy. This, presumably, is condensation.


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5428121 - 09/18/12 07:40 PM

Glen I had this happen to me using the MC Universe and 0.5x focal reducer in the exact same location. When I look at it there was a thin film about an 1/8" of condensation on the ccd window. Next time I will put the focal reducer on the camera from inside my house to be safe.

Chris A


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5428679 - 09/19/12 03:03 AM

Chris,
In most cases, and *especially* in colder weather, DO NOT trap indoors air in your camera! Always bear in mind the critical difference between relative humidity (RH) and absolute humidity. Warm air can hold a LOT more water vapor than can cold air. This means than warm indoors air, even if RH is fairly low, can have in it more water vapor than colder air at high RH. That is, warm air at low RH can have higher absolute humidity than cold air at high RH.

Another way to look at it is to compare dew point temperature, which is the figure of ultimate concern. Your warm indoors air will have a higher dew point than the colder outdoors air, due simply to the higher absolute humidity, which is expressed as grams of water per kilogram of air (1 kg of air occupies close to 1 cubic meter at sea level.)

In the autumn and winter months to come, ensure that the air has been fully exchanged with outdoors air if something is to be threaded on which will 'seal' in trapped air. And even if the camera is brought indoors in 'sealed' condition and not at all loosened, it's safe to assume that air will nonetheless gradually exchange, even over a period of just hours.


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5429382 - 09/19/12 02:57 PM

Okay Glen then what would you recommend that I do in order to avoid this situation because when I connected the focal reducer to the MC Universe it was getting late in the afternoon and I did the exchange outside? Thank you for any advice.

Chris A


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5429481 - 09/19/12 04:04 PM

Chris,
The cooling of the chip is clearly deep enough to bring the temperature of the window down to below the dew point of the outside air having the water vapor content at the time.

Assuming the condensation is on the outside surface of the window. Could it instead be on the inside surface, or even on the CCD itself? Hopefully the space between is sealed and dry as a bone!

Outside winter air will definitely have less water vapor content than at present, and will lessen the chance of condensation on the window. In the meantime, until temperatures outside fall below freezing, you might consider attaching the reducer when it and the camera are plunged into a freezer. A deep freezer with the top side being the door is best, because the cold air doesn't spill out like it does when the door is on the side. If your freezer is of the latter type, just get the reducer in place reasonably quickly (after providing a couple seconds for the warm air to be exchanged.)

For more reliable anti-condensation, perhaps a fresh dessicant packet of suitably small size could be somehow installed before each session...?


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5429488 - 09/19/12 04:08 PM

Chris,

I guess if I was confronted with your situation(and I think I experience similar environmentals around here) I'd seal up the Universe in a zip lock bag along with a big desiccant bag as early as as I could and leave it in the coolest spot possible. I'd probably leave the focal reducer in the bag too, and maybe loosely thread it on (so there would still be some air exchange behind it). Then it would be easy to just open the bag and thread the focal reducer on tightly as I was getting ready to use the camera. This should trap somewhat drier air in behind the reducer.


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5429522 - 09/19/12 04:28 PM

Good idea, Mark!

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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5429580 - 09/19/12 05:10 PM

Some fantastics suggestions from you both and I appreciate it. I will do this today and see how it works out tonight. The condensation Glen is appearing on the very outside of the ccd window and the focal reducer threads over it with about a 1/2" gap.

Thanks again!

Chris A


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5430951 - 09/20/12 01:26 PM

Hi Glen and Mark

I want to thank you both for the excellent advice regarding the dewing situation and placing the camera/reducer in the freezer. It seemed to work very well and I was finally able to go out last night and try the MC Universe with some serious ccd imaging. I put the images on my Flicker site with a link on the MC Yahoo group and believe you both are members there. If not, here is the link because I do not want to post them here because they were processed and stacked.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mallincam/message/38384

Clear skies,

Chris A
Astrogate


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budman1961
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/25/11

Loc: Springfield, MO
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5431001 - 09/20/12 01:52 PM

Your images are FANTASTIC! The Bubble is one of the best I have seen.

Congrats!

Andy


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Teabagger
member


Reged: 08/18/12

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: budman1961]
      #5431072 - 09/20/12 02:29 PM

Chris I think you just sold the last of the universe camera's.

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Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5431091 - 09/20/12 02:42 PM

Quote:

I was finally able to go out last night and try the MC Universe with some serious ccd imaging. I put the images on my Flicker site with a link on the MC Yahoo group and believe you both are members there. If not, here is the link because I do not want to post them here because they were processed and stacked.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mallincam/message/38384

Clear skies,

Chris A
Astrogate




I put a few unprocessed "Live" Universe images of M33 in the Mallincam group photos section. They are in the Armchair Observatory file. Too big for posting here I believe.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mallincam/photos/album/2029894109/pic/list

I still have a lot to learn about my camera and considering that I can't run down to Rocks shop to get him to show me how it works they turned out OK.

Images get better every time I use the camera. When I think how much imaging improved as I learned how to use my Mallincams I have to expect a corresponding improvement with the Universe images.

I suppose everyone will concentrate on the full size and 2x2 bin images for obvious reasons. I like the 4x4 bin mode as well. From what I've seen of that mode so far I think the Universe is comparable to the Mallincams in speed and resolution.


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: budman1961]
      #5431146 - 09/20/12 03:15 PM

Thank you very much Andy for having a look and the kind words. I really enjoyed using this ccd camera.

Chris A


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Teabagger]
      #5431149 - 09/20/12 03:16 PM

Thank you! This is a fantastic fun and easy to use ccd camera. I really like how it captured the rich colors and the resolution even at 2 x 2 binning.

Chris A


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5431150 - 09/20/12 03:17 PM

Very nice again Lorence!!

Chris A


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A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5431286 - 09/20/12 04:36 PM

Lorence, your M33 is very nice, but the Ring I find comparable to what is easily done with most Mallincams... Chris's Bubble was a total professional shot, but I would be curious to see what it looked like inRaw form, before he applied his mastery of image tweaking and enhancement...

For those of us with Extemes I suppose there is some buyer remorse potentially... But as I am just starting I sort of feel the big improvement in the Universe is really best showcased by quasi professionals like Chris who know how to process the images... For the rest of us noobs I sort of feel like learning on the McX is kind of like playing single A baseball... We are still a long distance from being in the major leagues, but boy are we having fun!

Al


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5431459 - 09/20/12 06:45 PM

Hi Al

Thank you very much for the kind words. I want you to understand that the MCX that you bought is a fantastic camera for it's first purpose and that is live or near-live observation followed up by some good old fun decent imaging. I posted some images that I captured and processed with my MCX last year to prove a point that this astro video camera can pull it's weight very well when it comes to imaging. I truly loved using my MCX and my now MCX2 for live obsevation esp. sharing the sessions on NSN. I will never sell my MCX2 and I am even debating selling my original MCX. Here was those images just in case you did not see them captured/processed using a MCX.

Bubble Nebula
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47296963@N08/5933986053/in/photostream/

Cocoon Nebula
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47296963@N08/5933986305/in/photostream/

Crescent Nebula
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47296963@N08/5934546346/in/photostream/

Please check them out and see just how these MCX's perform.

Cheers Al

Chris A
Astrogate


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Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5431532 - 09/20/12 07:23 PM

Quote:

Lorence, your M33 is very nice, but the Ring I find comparable to what is easily done with most Mallincams... Chris's Bubble was a total professional shot, but I would be curious to see what it looked like inRaw form, before he applied his mastery of image tweaking and enhancement...

Al




Chris has been using the camera more so as an imager, as it was intended too be used. I have been mainly interested in the live viewing characteristics of the camera. To me a Universe is just a big slow video camera with very good resolution.

I moved an Xtreme to another lens and replaced it with the Universe. I use the Universe the same as I would an Xtreme in long integration modes.

Those images of mine took a few minutes of my time. Chris's images took considerably longer. There's no way our images should ever be compared except to say they were made with the same camera.

That is in essence the beauty of the camera. It can satisfy people like Chris and myself. I believe that what you have seen so far is the tip of the iceberg. We have just begun to explore the capabilities of the camera. I think it's safe to say the best of both worlds, imaging and live viewing is still to come.


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Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working [Re: Lorence]
      #5431540 - 09/20/12 07:31 PM

I totally agree with you Lorence and well said sir!

Chris A


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