Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Video and Electronically Assisted Astronomy

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

The new Universe is in and working
      #5405904 - 09/06/12 01:01 AM

Rock did it again. The camera was easier to set up and get working than an Xtreme. I put a few images in the Photos section of Rocks group.

Nice camera. It will give you people a lot to talk about.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5406406 - 09/06/12 11:39 AM

Can you post your images here?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Raginar]
      #5406866 - 09/06/12 04:28 PM Attachment (130 downloads)

Quote:

Can you post your images here?




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mgb
sage
*****

Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Montreal, Qc... Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5407326 - 09/06/12 09:37 PM

Hi Lorence,

Is this the way Rock sells the new camera ? Equipped with all we see on that picture ?

Cable, driver and supply fine. I guess those two nosepieces are optional ?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mgb]
      #5407422 - 09/06/12 10:37 PM

This certainly looks like an interesting camera, but most of these features have been standard faire on the Meade DSI series for the past 8 years; continuous live view, color ballance, color/mono selectabe (binning with the III), levels, gamma, all in real time. (I'm sit'n here looking at NGC 6871 as I type this). I'm sure that the details of execution will be different and this camera uses a modern large format chip plus active cooling. (Not a huge deal with the short exposures I use for observing.) A couple of features that continue to be unique to the DSI is automatic dark subtraction (probably not needed with a cooled chip) and real-time image selection, alignment, and stacking along with all of the real-time processing.

It'll be neat to see what this new camera can do and the price point it comes in at. It's nice to have options.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: jgraham]
      #5407457 - 09/06/12 10:58 PM

Yep. The new one is using a DSLR's OSC sensor. RGBG Bayer (primary color) let less light in as opposed to videocam CCD's complementary-color Bayer (CMY, and G).
That's the tradeoff we have to live with (DSLR uses RGB to get better color fidelity). DSLR sensors are mass produced so we can enjoy the reasonable price.

As I mentioned in early post, this CCD imager has a very high-gain amplifier (and probably uses a less resolution A/D converter to obtain the faster readout time as required in near-real time liveview style.) But again it's a tradeoff imaging (high S/N) vs. near realtime view (faster readout).

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5407681 - 09/07/12 02:47 AM

John,

I agree, the closer Rock gets to making a CCD camera over a video camera, the less enticing the product becomes. Can't wait to see some images from normal people around here.

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Raginar]
      #5408323 - 09/07/12 01:12 PM

Chris,
It's wise for a business to diversify. And just who are the 'normal people' around here?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jujumaster
member


Reged: 11/26/11

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5409119 - 09/07/12 09:11 PM

Chris,
I have to admit that Rock is not a normal person by any standard. Having listened to him share with me his passion and detail for perfection in custom design and application of components that experts even at NASA said was impossible... I'd have to agree, he's off his rocker. But thank goodness someone is. I don't know the history here, but I have to say that having shared a few great times this summer with Rock was a fascinating and a wonderful experience. It was a real pleasure to see how someone not caught in the commercial machine remains true to his soul. Well, it feels like I just came out of the closet on my first post... Let's see if I survive the gauntlet.

Thanks,
Ian in MD


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: jujumaster]
      #5409139 - 09/07/12 09:19 PM

Very well said Ian and welcome with your first post to CN.

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5409628 - 09/08/12 05:58 AM

Quote:

Yep. The new one is using a DSLR's OSC sensor. RGBG Bayer (primary color) let less light in as opposed to videocam CCD's complementary-color Bayer (CMY, and G).
That's the tradeoff we have to live with (DSLR uses RGB to get better color fidelity). ccs_hello


Hi ccs_hello - whilst we appreciate the need for colour fidelity in 'normal' imaging of faces and places this is largely irrelevant for deepsky objects where virtually no colour can be deteched by the human eye even if one lived next to say M57 - an emission line object ! I therefore take a more relaxed view that colour in deepsky, via a 'fast' complimentary colour filter system, is fully acceptable.

Of course Rock must use available technology as in the M/C Universe and undoubtedly big chips have almost universal appeal

ps: still awaiting some sample Universe pics!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Raginar]
      #5410045 - 09/08/12 12:51 PM

Quote:

John,

I agree, the closer Rock gets to making a CCD camera over a video camera, the less enticing the product becomes. Can't wait to see some images from normal people around here.

Chris




I prefer video myself, and love my Xtreme. To be fair, however, many of Rock's users are focused on broadcasting on Night Skies Network. Having a digital feed will be a godsend for them. From what I have heard, the Universe seems to retain some of the features of Rock's analog cameras, too...I look forward to seeing one in action.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: rmollise]
      #5410058 - 09/08/12 12:58 PM

For me the attraction is the larger chip size. More fov at the same f ratio is what I have been looking for. I looking forward to seeing it in action also.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5410155 - 09/08/12 02:03 PM

You and Mark!

Have yet to see any pictures from anyone but Rock and Chris A. Must be cloudy skies from NES.

~Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Raginar]
      #5410174 - 09/08/12 02:18 PM

Lorence has also posted a couple of nice early pics on the Yahoo group.

So far we only have single or limited number of subs (interesting to evaluate the fov, especially the optical quality of the .5x focal reducer), but nobody has gone very deep yet.

A lot of the initial units when to existing Mallincam customers. It's going to take a little while to get good images from experienced imaging folks who have good dark skies, the appropriate weather and time to take deep images.

There will likely be a bunch of images from EVCAR over the next week or so but remember we really want/need images from experienced folks using the camera in nice controlled environments.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: nytecam]
      #5410654 - 09/08/12 07:44 PM Attachment (85 downloads)

Hi Maurice

I thought Lorence posted a link to my site showing some shorter single none processed captures using my C9.25 at both F6.3 & F10. I will post these 4 images again just in case. I will be doing sometime in the next couple of weeks a live NSN broadcast using the MC Universe and I am also going to try some multiple stacked process imaging with this camera on the faint larger deep sky objects. Here is the first image of M27 @ F6.3

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5410655 - 09/08/12 07:44 PM Attachment (99 downloads)

Here is M27 @ F10

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5410657 - 09/08/12 07:45 PM Attachment (95 downloads)

Here is M13 @ F6.3

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5410660 - 09/08/12 07:46 PM Attachment (80 downloads)

Here is M13 @ F10

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5410661 - 09/08/12 07:47 PM Attachment (104 downloads)

And finally here is M57 @ F10 all captured with the C9.25 & MC Universe. I did not capture M57 @ F6.3 due to the smaller image scale.

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5410736 - 09/08/12 08:43 PM Attachment (96 downloads)

Here is one M92 that I forgot that I took the same night as the others captured at F10

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5410762 - 09/08/12 09:06 PM

Chris,

Can you also explain the differences between your prototype/beta version of the Universe that was used to take these pictures and what is actually shipping as a production unit? I believe the software was a little different as well?

Chris's images as great as they are (great focus, tight stars etc.) don't entirely represent what the camera is actually capable of ... the shipping Universe's are more sensitive. Plus there are the imposed limitations of images reproduced here on CN.


We're going to need more folks like Chris who have CCD imaging and post processing capabilities to give the camera good workout. Still it's going to be a little while before we get to see what this camera is really capable of.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5410935 - 09/08/12 11:20 PM

Mark

You are correct regarding the camera differences between the 1st prototype/beta that I was testing and the newer units now being shipped. The new models now have Rocks built in hyper circuitry making the sensor more sensitive to collecting the photons. Also the Peltier cooler has been beefed up to increase the cooling capacity from -30C to -45C The software has come along way with Rock adding the Long Power open window concept which greatly reduces the amp glow and most importantly the option to bin the pixels either by a factor of 2 x 2 or 4 x 4 to greatly increase the light collecting which then allows one to use a much longer focal length as long as the mount can handle this. The binning does not effect the color debayer at all and produces very pleasing results.

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5410996 - 09/09/12 12:01 AM

Wow, I just looked through the images that you posted on Flickr. Very nice! These are the best single frames I've seen. Most excellent.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: jgraham]
      #5411004 - 09/09/12 12:15 AM

Thank you very much John for the kind words and having a look.

Clear skies,

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Relativist
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/11/03

Loc: OC, CA, USA
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5411708 - 09/09/12 02:03 PM

Can you please describe again what a 'single frame' means here? I'm assuming it's a certain amount of time exposed.

Also, what I have been hoping for personally is the ability to digitally produce 1080p "video". While it doesn't seem to be the main use for this camera I'm curious how it will perform for such output.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Relativist]
      #5411866 - 09/09/12 03:54 PM

Curtis what I mean by single is these images are not stacked using multiple sub exposures. At F6.3 they were shorter exposures than the F10 as expected. Here were the times involve

M13 @ F6.3 45 Secs
M27 @ F6.3 90 Secs
M13 @ F10 150 Secs
M27 @ F10 240 Secs
M57 @ F10 180 Secs
M92 @ F10 150 Secs

The images are raw meaning NO post processing including calibration. Also this MC Universe does not have the hyper circuitry and deeper cooling like the official released model. Having the hyper circuitry would have lowered the exposure time by 30% so for e.g. the M27 @ F10 would have taken only 168 Secs instead of 240 Secs. Also with the new binning option at 2 x 2 the 168 secs would now take only 42 Secs at half the resolution though.

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5411937 - 09/09/12 04:49 PM Attachment (58 downloads)

Quote:

Hi Maurice

I thought Lorence posted a link to my site showing some shorter single none processed captures using my C9.25 at both F6.3 & F10. I will post these 4 images again just in case. Chris A - Astrogate


Thanks Chris - excellent images - as noted CN TOS on file size don't favour 6Mp images But some close crops would be nice too

Attached sketch of M42 shows approx fov with Universe [APS sensor] against Xtreme cam computed via Megastar with your 1480mm fl scope eg 9.25" f/6.3 SCT eg fov ~x9 larger


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
*****

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412142 - 09/09/12 07:22 PM

Quote:

Also this MC Universe does not have the hyper circuitry and deeper cooling like the official released model.




Is this one a stock model as received from the manufacturer or has it been modified by MC but less extensively than the current MC model?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: nytecam]
      #5412235 - 09/09/12 08:09 PM Attachment (72 downloads)

Here are some crops of the images that I posted using the MC Universe and my C9.25. Please keep in mind that these are only a one short none processed image with tweaking done only using the MC Universe software. The 1st image is M13 @ F6.3

Chris A

Edited by Chris A (09/09/12 08:12 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412245 - 09/09/12 08:13 PM Attachment (54 downloads)

The 2nd is a crop of my M13 @ F10

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412252 - 09/09/12 08:16 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

The 3rd is a crop of the M27 image at F6.3

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412255 - 09/09/12 08:17 PM Attachment (28 downloads)

The 4th image is a crop of M27 @ F10

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412258 - 09/09/12 08:18 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

The 5th is a crop of my M57 image @ F10

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412261 - 09/09/12 08:19 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

The 6th and final image is a crop of M92 @ F10

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5412289 - 09/09/12 08:37 PM

John the camera that I was using was one of the 1st MC Universe prototypes designed by Rock Mallin. After many tests Rock decided to incorporate his ingenious hyper circuitry into is latest camera design.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412391 - 09/09/12 09:44 PM

The color looks wonderful. The resolution looks typical for an APS-C size chip. No odd artifacts. Very nice.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Relativist]
      #5412552 - 09/09/12 11:36 PM

Quote:

Also, what I have been hoping for personally is the ability to digitally produce 1080p "video". While it doesn't seem to be the main use for this camera I'm curious how it will perform for such output.



Curtis,

The Universe doesn't have any video out capability, it's a single shot CCD camera with a USB interface. With it's software it can take a series of 5s, 10s, 30s or however long exposures you want and continue to do so until stopped. The software will display the image as it's downloaded from the camera and then update it when the next image is available. With the download times factored in you could see a continuous series of images every 5s or so (and maybe a little less), this would look something like really high resolution (higher than HD) video with a very very slow frame rate (12 frames/minute).

Real HD video with low noise and enough sensitivity to view anything but the brightest DSOs currently seems to be impossible with commercial cameras. It's not a problem on brighter stuff (witness the number of great solar system HD cameras for example). But with the constant improvements in sensors, amplifiers, and channels I think we're getting closer to your goal.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412751 - 09/10/12 03:31 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

Quote:

The 4th image is a crop of M27 @ F10


Very nice crop Chris - taken liberty of a contrast tweak & rotate below

Future s/w options to merge binned 2x2 'fast mode' colour + unbinned luminance will be interesting


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: nytecam]
      #5412951 - 09/10/12 09:54 AM

Great job done Maurice! This shows with just a touch of tweaking just how nice the images accually can look in such short exposure times with no stacking or stack several and get even better results.

Cheers,

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5412960 - 09/10/12 09:58 AM

Wow those look great. That looks like a fantastic camera.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5413033 - 09/10/12 10:41 AM

Yep, with it's nice big (well relatively big) smooth (class 0) and sensitive sensor, low noise high gain amplifiers, and deep cooling the camera is going to give folks lots of good signal to work with.

Can't wait to see some longer exposure stacked shots from dark sites (displayed in another forum of course ... )

Nice tweaks Maurice.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5413606 - 09/10/12 03:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Also, what I have been hoping for personally is the ability to digitally produce 1080p "video". While it doesn't seem to be the main use for this camera I'm curious how it will perform for such output.



Curtis,

The Universe doesn't have any video out capability, it's a single shot CCD camera with a USB interface. With it's software it can take a series of 5s, 10s, 30s or however long exposures you want and continue to do so until stopped. The software will display the image as it's downloaded from the camera and then update it when the next image is available. With the download times factored in you could see a continuous series of images every 5s or so (and maybe a little less), this would look something like really high resolution (higher than HD) video with a very very slow frame rate (12 frames/minute).

Real HD video with low noise and enough sensitivity to view anything but the brightest DSOs currently seems to be impossible with commercial cameras. It's not a problem on brighter stuff (witness the number of great solar system HD cameras for example). But with the constant improvements in sensors, amplifiers, and channels I think we're getting closer to your goal.





The binning modes of the new software will make visual/video a little more interesting.

Full resolution is 3032 x 2018 pixels. 2x2 bin is 1516 x 1008. 4 x 4 bin images are 756 x 504 pixels. Exposure and image download times are significantly reduced in 2 x 2 and even more in 4 x 4.

I view on a screen with 1920 x 1080 resolution. A full resolution image is too big to fit on the screen. For practical purposes I'll probably leave the camera on 2 x 2 in use.

The cameras software is doing this anyway. Full resolution and 2 x 2 images are shown in the same sized window which takes up about 3/4 of the screen. 4 x 4 images appear to display as actual size, comparable to the image size of an Xtreme with the software I use.

Clear skies forecast tonight. I'll be able to do a bit more testing. I am particularly interested in the 4 x 4 mode and comparing the Universe sensitivity and image download times with Long Exposure Xtreme times. I already have a fair idea of what to expect based on what I've done so far but a fair idea may be far from what I will find from actually using the camera. Better to wait for the results than to post without really knowing.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Teabagger
member


Reged: 08/18/12

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5414045 - 09/10/12 08:31 PM

I wonder if the software will work with other ccd's......

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5414068 - 09/10/12 08:44 PM

Lorence,

Please post some side x side comparisons of Universe + Extreme at similar integration times, it will be very interesting to see the difference...

Al


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5414160 - 09/10/12 09:32 PM

I appreciate it thanks again!

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5414166 - 09/10/12 09:35 PM

Lorence you do not have to always use the 2 x 2 bin mode and might not want to esp. when your using a focal reducer or very short focal length telescope. What you can do also is use the MC Universes software cropping tool which crops to any size you choose and maintains that crop even upon the next refresh.

Cheers,

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Teabagger]
      #5414168 - 09/10/12 09:35 PM

No it will not it is strickly made for the MC Universe.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Teabagger
member


Reged: 08/18/12

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5414347 - 09/10/12 11:39 PM

Quote:

No it will not it is strickly made for the MC Universe.

Chris A




yes it might be made "strickly" for the universe.That does not mean it wont work with other ccd's.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Teabagger]
      #5414389 - 09/11/12 12:10 AM

The software is key to making something like this work for observing. I've described before how useful Envisage is for observing (at least for me). If someone could only write a generic program that could work with any camera that would be a huge step forward for camera assisted observing. In the mean time Envisage serves me well. I just came in from a session exploring planetary nebula from Aquarius up through Aquila and over to Andromeda.

Neat stuff.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Teabagger]
      #5414552 - 09/11/12 03:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

No it will not it is strickly made for the MC Universe. Chris A


yes it might be made "strickly" for the universe.That does not mean it wont work with other ccd's.


TB - where did you get that idea Specific s/w 'reads' a specific sensors in a set pixel array and RGBG on-chip filter placement etc etc and every sensor is different and thus the odds the Universe s/w working with other [unspecified] sensors is highly unlikely and would be of little or no interest to Mallincam in this launch

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Teabagger
member


Reged: 08/18/12

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: nytecam]
      #5415104 - 09/11/12 12:20 PM

I was unaware of that, it makes more sense to me now, thank you.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5415285 - 09/11/12 01:37 PM

Chris,

The software seems to make quite a difference. It's an interesting product to say the least!

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5415417 - 09/11/12 02:35 PM

Quote:

Lorence you do not have to always use the 2 x 2 bin mode and might not want to esp. when your using a focal reducer or very short focal length telescope. What you can do also is use the MC Universes software cropping tool which crops to any size you choose and maintains that crop even upon the next refresh.

Cheers,

Chris A
Astrogate




I'm just taking things one step at a time, in the general direction of how I intend to use the camera which will primarily be visual. At this point I have only used the camera with the focal reducer. I prefer the wider fields and will probably keep the reducer on.

My screen resolution won't display the full sized image but 2x2 fits nicely. The camera's software puts the full resolution image in the same sized window as 2x2. That's the reason for saying I will likely use 2x2.

4x4 resolution is an interesting mode. Exposure times are much shorter in that mode.

I uploaded three images to the Mallincam site. You can see that full size and 2x2 are very similar as displayed on the website screen unless you look at the images at full size.

I think I'm going to like full resolution for lunar viewing. That mode displays about 95% of the Moon in an image but the Cut Picture feature lets you pick a smaller section to view.

I have yet to determine if the Cut Picture feature image is displaying at actual pixel resolution or at some other chosen by the software. If it does display at actual pixel resolution it will helpful in focusing the telescope.

I rarely save images and don't really have any Xtreme or VSS photos to compare with the Universe. The exposure times are listed with the new images, SQM readings were around 21.45.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5415430 - 09/11/12 02:40 PM

Lorence, I also love the big FOV with this since, however, there will be times when you will want to use the "cut area tab" for e.g. when viewing those very small planetary nebulas. M57 or those much smaller galaxies. Give a try some night you will fine it very nice along with the full resolution of that cropped area.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5415437 - 09/11/12 02:46 PM

Lorence I forgot to mention also that yes the 4 x 4 bin mode is very nice for super sensitivity, but you will dramatically decrease your resolution and will now be way under sampled for the average typical seeing condition which is 2 arcsec/pix unless you are going to now use a very long focal length of F10 to F20 which will reduce the beneifits (extra sensitivity) of using 4 x 4 binning. Just a thought!

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5415579 - 09/11/12 03:54 PM

It will be very interesting to see the Universe running effectively as a 756 x 504 resolution camera with 30µ pixels and a USB interface. Who cares what the sampling ratio will be, this type of setup would be for near live viewing and probably broadcasting on NSN which would negate virtually any concern about pixel resolution. I'd love to see that capability compared side by side with an Xtreme.

I think Rock will practically go out of his mind explaining to everyone that these two cameras were never designed to be used in the same way.



Edited by mclewis1 (09/11/12 04:30 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ngchunter
super member


Reged: 10/09/09

Loc: Sarasota, FL
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5415703 - 09/11/12 04:49 PM

Personally I could never part with my traditional mallincam if for no other reason than the ability to hook it up to a normal TV monitor for sidewalk astronomy and public outreach events, but I am wiping the drool off my chin at these images. 4x4 binning while retaining color? Nice! Maybe I missed it, but does it give you the option to save the images in a 16 bit format?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: ngchunter]
      #5415743 - 09/11/12 05:13 PM

Yes you can automatically save images as tiffs in 16 bit format with the touch of a button using the MC Universe software.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5415746 - 09/11/12 05:15 PM

Well Mark, I will have both cameras (X2 Class 0 & MC Universe) to test on NSN, but I will not test the MC Universe on NSN until the patch is available for direct connection. I really do not want to use WebcamMax for this purpose and I hope the patch will be out in the next couple of weeks.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5415976 - 09/11/12 07:27 PM

Now that we're in a dark moon period, I'd like to see an image of a target having rather lower surface brightness than M57 and M27. Parts of the Veil nebula will be an improvement, if the goal is to ascertain sensitivity and degree of noise reduction. Better yet would be NGC6888 or the North America nebula.

Brighter planetaries do not make a camera 'break a sweat.'


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5416132 - 09/11/12 08:59 PM

Quote:

Well Mark, I will have both cameras (X2 Class 0 & MC Universe) to test on NSN, but I will not test the MC Universe on NSN until the patch is available for direct connection. I really do not want to use WebcamMax for this purpose and I hope the patch will be out in the next couple of weeks. Chris A



I agree Chris, screen capture to a video stream isn't going to show the camera's true capabilities, so that's really not an appropriate vehicle for a comparison (as much fun as that might be to do).

You know my position on comparisons (that they have to be done very carefully if anyone is going to be able to draw any useful conclusions) ... and for all the fun and interest in the camera waiting for good examples of it's capabilities is what's really important.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5416158 - 09/11/12 09:13 PM

Glenn I just sent the original MC Universe today back to Rocks work and he will be sending me the latest model with the hyper circuitry and deeper cooling along with the new .5 focal reducer. Yes I agree with you and do plan on doing some very high intense ccd imaging of those faint objects you mentioned (Hey the California nebula comes to mine) and also do a live NSN broadcast showing several different types of objects in near real-time when the NSN patch is ready. Hope you all will please be patient and I promise to show some incredible images/views.

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ngchunter
super member


Reged: 10/09/09

Loc: Sarasota, FL
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5417363 - 09/12/12 01:59 PM

Will the NSN patch also allow the camera to talk to other streaming providers, such as Justin.tv, ustream, etc (without the need for webcammax)?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5417655 - 09/12/12 04:48 PM

Chris & Lorence,

I know everyone is going gaga over the wider FOV, but I would be interested to see some barlowed images, I realize the Universe is not meant to be a planetary imager, but still it would be interesting to see if the higher resolution can handle brighter targets at very high effective magnification and maintain the sharpness and image quality of some of what has been posted on Yahoo and here so far.

Al


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5418247 - 09/12/12 10:23 PM

Quote:

Chris & Lorence,

I know everyone is going gaga over the wider FOV, but I would be interested to see some barlowed images, I realize the Universe is not meant to be a planetary imager, but still it would be interesting to see if the higher resolution can handle brighter targets at very high effective magnification and maintain the sharpness and image quality of some of what has been posted on Yahoo and here so far.
Al




For what it's worth I initially set up on a bright sunny afternoon. The terrestrial view was "WOW". The camera was set to full resolution (3032 x 2018) but at the time I didn't realize I was only seeing half of that resolution on the monitor (1920 x 1080). That covers two out of three. One brief look at the Moon when it was very low and seeing was poor was enough to convince me Lunar viewing will be impressive. Buy the way the Moon is just slightly larger than my field of view with the .5 reducer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05

Loc: Louisiana
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5424417 - 09/16/12 09:15 PM

Chris,

I am on the way home from ECVAR where I did have the chance to use a Universe in a 12" VRC on CGE PRO and a 30" StarStructure. I failed to save any of the captures with the 12" as I forgot to specify the file name - DUH! But I did learn how to properly use the software and on Thursday night, I did grab some frame on Duane Smith's 30". On the 12" I was using 2x2 binning and mainly 60 second exposures to get fantastic images on the 17.3" screen of my Toshiba laptop. With the 30", shorter exposures and no binning was generally the case. Here is a 30 second capture of M8:



The scope is Alt-Az and after looking at the captures, Duane felt that using a ParaCor would have cleaned up some of the corner artifacts.

Jack Huerkamp


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05

Loc: Louisiana
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5424421 - 09/16/12 09:18 PM

Here is a 45 second capture of M16:



I really wish I had successfully saved the ones with the 12" on the GEM as they did not show the effects of field rotation.

Jack


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05

Loc: Louisiana
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5424427 - 09/16/12 09:25 PM

And here is a 15 second of M22:



Jack


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mpgxsvcd
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5424850 - 09/17/12 04:47 AM

Those images look like they have all of the benefit of the Malincam's high sensitivity with the resolution of a DSLR. That is a really good thing.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5426052 - 09/17/12 07:11 PM

Hi Jack

Wow those are some very nice unprocessed captures using the MC Universe Jack! I also recieved the latest MC Universe model along with the 0.5x reducer and will be testing this camera completely. Again very nice captures and thank you for sharing them with us here.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5426068 - 09/17/12 07:24 PM

Chris,
Have you decided on the distance at which the reducer will be placed ahead of the sensor? To work at 0.5X, the chip must be located at 1/2 the reducer's focal length behind the approximate mid-point in the lens. When helping a friend test his Universe a couple nights ago, with this reducer I very crudely checked its focal length and determined that some extra spacing was needed in order to obtain sufficient separation to work at 0.5X. The only spacer we had on hand was a 15mm job. Checking image scale showed that the result was near 0.6X, but this is a non-rigorous 'measurement'; we had bigger concerns to deal with at the time. Additionally, there was notable vignetting toward the corners.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5426174 - 09/17/12 08:32 PM

Glen I tried last night the 0.5x focal reducer threaded directly to the MC Universe followed by the supplied 2" adapter. This provided roughly a .6x reduction and there was only a very small amount of vignetting at the corners with no coma using my C9.25. Rock said that I should not use the supplied spacer unless the sct opening is 3 to 4 inches. The C9.25 has a 2" opening only and the spacer would have provided a more reduction but way too much vignetting and maybe even some coma.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5426493 - 09/17/12 11:38 PM Attachment (45 downloads)

Requests to see some fainter objects with the MC Universe

I recieved the updated version of the MC Universe from Rock last Friday (thank
you Rock) and had rain and partly cloudy skies for a couple of day's until last
night the sky cleared up. It was not a night that I was hoping for to do some
longer exposure stacked ccd imaging. Oh well, I wanted to show you a couple of
fainter objects that I captured with this beast of a camera under hazy skies. I
took a single (adjusted image using the MC Universe software)captures of both
M16 & M17 before they get too low in the south for me and uploaded them on my
flicker site along with full details below the images. Please check them out and
I would love to hear what you all think of them as for as in near real-time
observation goes. Serious ccd imaging will be coming in the near future and **I
need to buy a 2" IDAS P2 filter in order to achieve the best results in my light
polluted location**. M16 please read the information below.

I used my C9.25 @ full native F10 and the MC Universe with hyper circuitry. This was a single 2 x 2 bin mode at 240 sec using gain set to 19 and the histogram set to auto. Using the MC Universe software I set the contrast set to -20 and gamma set to -5. Used the one push WB tab and then lower the red to 91 to reduce the red cast again using the MC Universe SW. I had no filters on and would have achieved even better results by using and IDAS P2 LP filter. Adjustments all done on the fly with MX Universe software with NO post processing.

Conditions were average transparency, below average seeing, temperature was about 68F with a high 83% humidity level causing a lot of moisture in the air. No moon was present during the time of viewing.



Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5426496 - 09/17/12 11:40 PM Attachment (37 downloads)

Here is M17. Please read the details below

I used my C9.25 @ full native F10 and the MC Universe with hyper circuitry. This was a single 2 x 2 bin mode at 180 sec using gain set to 21 and the histogram set to auto. Using the MC Universe software I set the contrast set to -20 and gamma set to -5. Used the one push WB tab and then lower the red to 92 to reduce the red cast again using the MC Universe SW. I had no filters on and would have achieved even better results by using and IDAS P2 LP filter. Adjustments all done on the fly with MX Universe software with NO post processing

Conditions were average transparency, below average seeing, temperature was about 68F with a high 83% humidity level causing a lot of moisture in the air. No moon was present during the time of viewing.

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5426726 - 09/18/12 05:28 AM

Pretty cool Chris. Any possibility of doing some galaxies? It'd be interesting to see M51 and how it handled the coloring.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05

Loc: Louisiana
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Raginar]
      #5426902 - 09/18/12 08:46 AM

Chris,

Here is a 20 second capture using 2x2 binning in Duane Smith's 30". The Deerlick galaxy group is at the bottom/left and Stephan's Quintet is toward the right. Sky conditions were not the best with tons of moisture. The scopes were dripping and at one point I had to turn off the cooler on the Universe as condensation had occurred on the center of the glass covering to the CCD sensor.

The FOV is over 1/2 degree and I find this to be incredible on this size scope. Also field rotation/wind vibration is visible.



Jack Huerkamp


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05

Loc: Louisiana
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5426912 - 09/18/12 08:59 AM

Here is a 45 second capture with no binning of NGC 7479. This was with the cooling system OFF.



Jack Huerkamp


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5426942 - 09/18/12 09:24 AM

Heh, heh, I was just going to ask if you had any images of NGC 7479.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Raginar]
      #5427975 - 09/18/12 06:15 PM

Thank you Chris for the feedback. M51 is getting too low for me now but M33 will be next on the list along with the Eastern Veil and Bubble nebula.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #5427981 - 09/18/12 06:17 PM

Very cool Jack. Did you try to play with the manual color sliders in the software? Love seeing Stephan's Quintet & Deer Lick group in the same FOV.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5428100 - 09/18/12 07:31 PM

Jack,
I note in your NGC 7479 image a dark central spot, right on top of the nicely centered galaxy. This, presumably, is condensation.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5428121 - 09/18/12 07:40 PM

Glen I had this happen to me using the MC Universe and 0.5x focal reducer in the exact same location. When I look at it there was a thin film about an 1/8" of condensation on the ccd window. Next time I will put the focal reducer on the camera from inside my house to be safe.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5428679 - 09/19/12 03:03 AM

Chris,
In most cases, and *especially* in colder weather, DO NOT trap indoors air in your camera! Always bear in mind the critical difference between relative humidity (RH) and absolute humidity. Warm air can hold a LOT more water vapor than can cold air. This means than warm indoors air, even if RH is fairly low, can have in it more water vapor than colder air at high RH. That is, warm air at low RH can have higher absolute humidity than cold air at high RH.

Another way to look at it is to compare dew point temperature, which is the figure of ultimate concern. Your warm indoors air will have a higher dew point than the colder outdoors air, due simply to the higher absolute humidity, which is expressed as grams of water per kilogram of air (1 kg of air occupies close to 1 cubic meter at sea level.)

In the autumn and winter months to come, ensure that the air has been fully exchanged with outdoors air if something is to be threaded on which will 'seal' in trapped air. And even if the camera is brought indoors in 'sealed' condition and not at all loosened, it's safe to assume that air will nonetheless gradually exchange, even over a period of just hours.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5429382 - 09/19/12 02:57 PM

Okay Glen then what would you recommend that I do in order to avoid this situation because when I connected the focal reducer to the MC Universe it was getting late in the afternoon and I did the exchange outside? Thank you for any advice.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5429481 - 09/19/12 04:04 PM

Chris,
The cooling of the chip is clearly deep enough to bring the temperature of the window down to below the dew point of the outside air having the water vapor content at the time.

Assuming the condensation is on the outside surface of the window. Could it instead be on the inside surface, or even on the CCD itself? Hopefully the space between is sealed and dry as a bone!

Outside winter air will definitely have less water vapor content than at present, and will lessen the chance of condensation on the window. In the meantime, until temperatures outside fall below freezing, you might consider attaching the reducer when it and the camera are plunged into a freezer. A deep freezer with the top side being the door is best, because the cold air doesn't spill out like it does when the door is on the side. If your freezer is of the latter type, just get the reducer in place reasonably quickly (after providing a couple seconds for the warm air to be exchanged.)

For more reliable anti-condensation, perhaps a fresh dessicant packet of suitably small size could be somehow installed before each session...?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5429488 - 09/19/12 04:08 PM

Chris,

I guess if I was confronted with your situation(and I think I experience similar environmentals around here) I'd seal up the Universe in a zip lock bag along with a big desiccant bag as early as as I could and leave it in the coolest spot possible. I'd probably leave the focal reducer in the bag too, and maybe loosely thread it on (so there would still be some air exchange behind it). Then it would be easy to just open the bag and thread the focal reducer on tightly as I was getting ready to use the camera. This should trap somewhat drier air in behind the reducer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5429522 - 09/19/12 04:28 PM

Good idea, Mark!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5429580 - 09/19/12 05:10 PM

Some fantastics suggestions from you both and I appreciate it. I will do this today and see how it works out tonight. The condensation Glen is appearing on the very outside of the ccd window and the focal reducer threads over it with about a 1/2" gap.

Thanks again!

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5430951 - 09/20/12 01:26 PM

Hi Glen and Mark

I want to thank you both for the excellent advice regarding the dewing situation and placing the camera/reducer in the freezer. It seemed to work very well and I was finally able to go out last night and try the MC Universe with some serious ccd imaging. I put the images on my Flicker site with a link on the MC Yahoo group and believe you both are members there. If not, here is the link because I do not want to post them here because they were processed and stacked.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mallincam/message/38384

Clear skies,

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
budman1961
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/25/11

Loc: Springfield, MO
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5431001 - 09/20/12 01:52 PM

Your images are FANTASTIC! The Bubble is one of the best I have seen.

Congrats!

Andy


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Teabagger
member


Reged: 08/18/12

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: budman1961]
      #5431072 - 09/20/12 02:29 PM

Chris I think you just sold the last of the universe camera's.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5431091 - 09/20/12 02:42 PM

Quote:

I was finally able to go out last night and try the MC Universe with some serious ccd imaging. I put the images on my Flicker site with a link on the MC Yahoo group and believe you both are members there. If not, here is the link because I do not want to post them here because they were processed and stacked.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mallincam/message/38384

Clear skies,

Chris A
Astrogate




I put a few unprocessed "Live" Universe images of M33 in the Mallincam group photos section. They are in the Armchair Observatory file. Too big for posting here I believe.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mallincam/photos/album/2029894109/pic/list

I still have a lot to learn about my camera and considering that I can't run down to Rocks shop to get him to show me how it works they turned out OK.

Images get better every time I use the camera. When I think how much imaging improved as I learned how to use my Mallincams I have to expect a corresponding improvement with the Universe images.

I suppose everyone will concentrate on the full size and 2x2 bin images for obvious reasons. I like the 4x4 bin mode as well. From what I've seen of that mode so far I think the Universe is comparable to the Mallincams in speed and resolution.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: budman1961]
      #5431146 - 09/20/12 03:15 PM

Thank you very much Andy for having a look and the kind words. I really enjoyed using this ccd camera.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Teabagger]
      #5431149 - 09/20/12 03:16 PM

Thank you! This is a fantastic fun and easy to use ccd camera. I really like how it captured the rich colors and the resolution even at 2 x 2 binning.

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5431150 - 09/20/12 03:17 PM

Very nice again Lorence!!

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5431286 - 09/20/12 04:36 PM

Lorence, your M33 is very nice, but the Ring I find comparable to what is easily done with most Mallincams... Chris's Bubble was a total professional shot, but I would be curious to see what it looked like inRaw form, before he applied his mastery of image tweaking and enhancement...

For those of us with Extemes I suppose there is some buyer remorse potentially... But as I am just starting I sort of feel the big improvement in the Universe is really best showcased by quasi professionals like Chris who know how to process the images... For the rest of us noobs I sort of feel like learning on the McX is kind of like playing single A baseball... We are still a long distance from being in the major leagues, but boy are we having fun!

Al


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5431459 - 09/20/12 06:45 PM

Hi Al

Thank you very much for the kind words. I want you to understand that the MCX that you bought is a fantastic camera for it's first purpose and that is live or near-live observation followed up by some good old fun decent imaging. I posted some images that I captured and processed with my MCX last year to prove a point that this astro video camera can pull it's weight very well when it comes to imaging. I truly loved using my MCX and my now MCX2 for live obsevation esp. sharing the sessions on NSN. I will never sell my MCX2 and I am even debating selling my original MCX. Here was those images just in case you did not see them captured/processed using a MCX.

Bubble Nebula
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47296963@N08/5933986053/in/photostream/

Cocoon Nebula
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47296963@N08/5933986305/in/photostream/

Crescent Nebula
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47296963@N08/5934546346/in/photostream/

Please check them out and see just how these MCX's perform.

Cheers Al

Chris A
Astrogate


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5431532 - 09/20/12 07:23 PM

Quote:

Lorence, your M33 is very nice, but the Ring I find comparable to what is easily done with most Mallincams... Chris's Bubble was a total professional shot, but I would be curious to see what it looked like inRaw form, before he applied his mastery of image tweaking and enhancement...

Al




Chris has been using the camera more so as an imager, as it was intended too be used. I have been mainly interested in the live viewing characteristics of the camera. To me a Universe is just a big slow video camera with very good resolution.

I moved an Xtreme to another lens and replaced it with the Universe. I use the Universe the same as I would an Xtreme in long integration modes.

Those images of mine took a few minutes of my time. Chris's images took considerably longer. There's no way our images should ever be compared except to say they were made with the same camera.

That is in essence the beauty of the camera. It can satisfy people like Chris and myself. I believe that what you have seen so far is the tip of the iceberg. We have just begun to explore the capabilities of the camera. I think it's safe to say the best of both worlds, imaging and live viewing is still to come.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chris A
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5431540 - 09/20/12 07:31 PM

I totally agree with you Lorence and well said sir!

Chris A


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5455287 - 10/04/12 03:39 PM

I wonder how the universe compares to the Opticstar DS-616C and Farpoints Opticstar version. Is the $600 extra for the mallincam worth it? It appears the mallincam does higher gain and cooler than the Opticstar but the farpoint version has the same cooling as the mallincam.. maybe the engineering in the cooling is different too?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5455725 - 10/04/12 09:03 PM

Dave,

I think the Opticstar's are just variations on the same camera ... with the case and cooling being some of the evolutionary changes. The change from -30 to -45 below ambient is probably the change to direct cooling on the sensor as opposed to the cold finger approach.

Rock uses a great version of the sensor, that class 0 sensor produces really nice smooth images. That's worth something extra.

His "Hyper" circuitry provides extra gain but sounds similar in functionality to the "hardware gain" in the other cameras. Is one better than the other? Don't know, but Rock does build his Hyper circuitry for all his cameras out of very high grade components.

The other two cameras come with drivers for the most popular camera control/imaging applications. With the Universe you don't have any choices ... yet.

The hardware includes like USB cables and power supply are a non issue. Rock's f5 focal reducer for the Universe is likely to be usable on the Opticstars as well.

$600 can buy a lot of useful extras (filters, etc.) but I think as has been previously mentioned the real ability to justify the difference in price will only come when the Opticstar's are compared to the Universe side by side.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5455957 - 10/05/12 12:05 AM

Thanks Mark..

That $300 focal reducer (good lord! does it also make straw into gold?) appears to have vignetting issues with certain scopes.

I've never dealt with optic star.. I do know that Rock's customer service is great..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5456063 - 10/05/12 03:03 AM

Because of the large sensor in this camera, focal reducer requirements are stringent. With tiny video chips one can get away with simple reducers on any scope type. But no one reducer can work equally well for all scope types when this size field is covered; the ideal is a reducer designed for the specific scope type.

A friend's 14" SCT delivers overall better results for his Universe when the Meade f/6.3 reducer is used, because this reducer has been specifically designed to correct the field curvature and coma the SCT produces. The MC reducer seems to require a not so strongly curved field as the SCT generates. And it does introduce a bit more vignetting than the Meade f/6.3 produces due to insufficient clear aperture. I should add that this assessment was made with a 15mm spacer between reducer and camera, resulting an estimated reduction of somewhere between 0.6-0.7X. (More spacing is required to obtain 0.5X, which is expected to somewhat 'soften' the rapidity of illumination fall-off near the field edge, yet likely reducing the size of the fully illuminated circle.)

It would be interesting to see how Rock's reducer performs on a system faster than f/10 (and which, as noted above, has a near to flat field.) With a faster scope, for any given degree of reduction the vignetting will be more gradual, although the circle of full illumination will shrink. I should think that from a field curvature standpoint especially, and system speed secondarily, an f/8 R-C would be a better match for the MC reducer than the f/10 SCT.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5456192 - 10/05/12 08:09 AM

Quote:

I wonder how the universe compares to the Opticstar DS-616C and Farpoints Opticstar version. Is the $600 extra for the mallincam worth it? It appears the mallincam does higher gain and cooler than the Opticstar but the farpoint version has the same cooling as the mallincam.. maybe the engineering in the cooling is different too?




I can guarantee it does not have the same cooling, and that that will make a difference.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mallin
Vendor - Mallincam Video


Reged: 01/27/11

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5456620 - 10/05/12 01:57 PM

Hi,

There is a huge difference from the other company and MallinCam Universe. First, we put the exact same Hyper circuit in each cameras along with a Holtek preamp section of extremely high gain. Peltier is not the same and is direct mounted to the rear of the METAL ccd sensor for a -45C performance needed to the continuous live view mode not through a cold finger where you loose some heat pump transfer effect.

All components are grade 1 industrial / medical grade with tolerance of 0.5% no exception, to ensure top quality and very low noise while we use a extremely high amount of gain. A MallinCam unique.

Ccd sensor is of class 0 all the way and is a ICX413AQS scientific grade. Metal housing inside is machined differently to adapter our own circuits in them. Front glass is made of BK 7 1/4" thick to provide maximum separation from ccd sensor to outside element and is multi coated for any reflection. Other company do not have near the same thing. Ours is a real astronomical ccd camera with a different twist to it.

The MallinCam Universe contain 85% our own design, and own circuit, the remaining 15% include the external cabinet and main USB board made in Taiwan by a scientific ccd camera manufacturer which makes several other astronomical cameras for other astronomical companies as well. Our camera external cabinet is BLACK which is the color to use for long exposure without any refection of any kind. Not Blue. Obviously some can't tell the difference here.

Other company offer a short little USB cable. We supply it with a top grade large wire 5 meters USB cable. That's 16.5 feet long not a short little 2 feet as provided by other.
We supply the camera with a 2" barrel for 2" type eyepiece AND we also supply adapter to fit a optional 1.25" barrel adapter too that act as a front cover made of aluminum.

We been working on this for the past 3 years and are the first to use this new platform. Taiwan company has made some other type of camera that has a similar outside frame to ours and are sold in the UK but are far to be the same.

Our 0.5X focal reducer for the Universe must be used with a telescope of 3" or above output to avoid vignetting. Our lens is from our own design and made in Germany where they are shipped back to us and are assembled by hand one at a time in our shop right here in Ottawa Ontario Canada where the final measurements are done on a optical bench to ensure the final 0.5X reduction.

Even our own MFR-5 focal reducer made for our other MallinCams video ccd cameras were engineered 3 years before everyone else to work on any Ritchey Chretien, ACF from Meade, Edge from Celestron and more. We use the same design in our 2" format for the MallinCam Universe. We were the first in the industry to come up with a universal focal reducer and still have the same design. Hope this to rest any doubting individuals who question the integrity of this company maker of the MallinCam product. We have been in business for close to 36 years with experience to back it up.

Our unique software is designed 100% by us in Canada and made by a FEMALE engineer in Taiwan. other features are too numerous to post here but let me assure you the extra cost is well justified especially for a handcrafted unit one a t at time. You want the best, its the price to pay fore a high performance camera. Beside, Do a research and you'll find a camera with some of the feature with the same size sensor by a US company sells for well over 4,000.00.

Hope this put a rest to those who are not well informed about the MallinCam. Any doubting my post, simply send me a e mail direct to mallincam @ gmail .com
Remember, were are astronomers not salesmen, we are into it for the advancement of astronomy not the money. Try that with other companies.. You call our shop, its me that you talk to in person Not a answering system or a salesman / saleslady trained to say anything.

Regards,
Rock Mallin
President,
Pricipal Designer
MallinCam
Ottawa Canada


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mallin]
      #5456681 - 10/05/12 02:37 PM

Thanks for the post Rock!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Teabagger
member


Reged: 08/18/12

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5456961 - 10/05/12 06:29 PM

Just received my xtreme back today(hence its cloudy) that I had sent in to get upgraded, during this time I had direct correspondence with Rock the whole time... There's a price on components and hardware, but the level of customer service and communication that comes with a Mallincam> product gear is priceless. He stands behind his products whole heatedly.

Edited by Teabagger (10/05/12 06:31 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Teabagger]
      #5457139 - 10/05/12 09:44 PM

"Our 0.5X focal reducer for the Universe must be used with a telescope of 3" or above output to avoid vignetting."

Huh? The geometry of the convergence cone is determined by the f/ratio, not the size of the primary.

I'm not sure what the gender and country of origin of the programmer has to do with anything.

Sounds like a lot of pride and hard work went into this camera. Congratulations on producing such a fine product and on being able to share your dreams and passions with others.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
derangedhermit
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/07/09

Loc: USA
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Chris A]
      #5457176 - 10/05/12 10:43 PM

Is this camera based on the same Sony CCD sensor that was used in 2008 Orion, Nikon, Starlight Xpress, etc. cameras?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5457293 - 10/06/12 12:31 AM

It was used in the older SXV"F"-M25C's.. not sure about the nikon.. Orion came out with a camera with this chip in 2008. It is an interlaced CCD with a a two-frame readout sensor. The first QHY8's had this chip.

Everyone pretty much changed over to the ICX453 chip with progressive scan. Hense the SXV"R"-25C


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: jgraham]
      #5457380 - 10/06/12 02:07 AM

John,

What I believe Rock was talking about was a 3" opening at the rear of the scope, not the objective size. When I read Rock's responses I find I sometimes need to take into account some minor language issues (French into English). What clearly comes through though is his passion for his products.

I know from his previous comments on the Yahoo group that he's very sensitive to vignetting issues with the focal reducer. I find that the overall optical geometry of the imaging scope is more important than any one dimension ... for example comparing an f8 scope with a 3" opening and the camera 9" back to an f10 scope with a 2" opening and the camera positioned 5" back.

In Rock's response he also hasn't referenced the black Farpoints Opticstar camera mentioned earlier in the thread (thus the negative color comments). My earlier comments about the cooling differences were about the two different Opticstar cameras (Farpoints and DS-616C) and not between the Opticstar and Mallincam but that distinction also seems to have been missed.

Overall though it sure is nice to see him occasionally post here on CN.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5458594 - 10/06/12 11:06 PM

Farpoint said they are no longer carrying Opticstar products.

From Farpoint:

"Unfortunately, we no longer carry any Opticstar products. I hadn’t seen that the items had not yet been removed from our website, and I apologize for that.
They will be removed, shortly."


The picture of the camera farpoint has/had on their website was probably a prototype picture.

I also received an e-mail from Opticstar about the Mallincam Universe and the DS-616C. Let's just say it was not too friendly.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
greg
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: Central Ca.
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: jgraham]
      #5459157 - 10/07/12 11:36 AM

Quote:

"Our 0.5X focal reducer for the Universe must be used with a telescope of 3" or above output to avoid vignetting."

Huh? The geometry of the convergence cone is determined by the f/ratio, not the size of the primary.





Pretty sure Rock is talking about focusser size here. Like my 14.5" 3.3 Newt uses a 3" focuser. I thinking the Universe would make a nice fit for my Fast scope.

GregW


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: greg]
      #5459285 - 10/07/12 01:18 PM

Quote:

Like my 14.5" 3.3 Newt uses a 3" focuser. I thinking the Universe would make a nice fit for my Fast scope. GregW



I'd say so ... but with that big sensor I'd probably also consider correcting the field a bit with something like a TeleVue Paracorr or Baader 2" Rowe Coma Corrector.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
greg
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: Central Ca.
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5459674 - 10/07/12 06:09 PM

I use a Badder 2" Coma corrector with my 6.1 Mega pixel StarShoot Pro. Nice big chip and the stars are good to the edge but there is a little Vignetting... Not sure about the spelling but you get the point.

GregW


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: greg]
      #5459796 - 10/07/12 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"Our 0.5X focal reducer for the Universe must be used with a telescope of 3" or above output to avoid vignetting."

Huh? The geometry of the convergence cone is determined by the f/ratio, not the size of the primary.





Pretty sure Rock is talking about focusser size here. Like my 14.5" 3.3 Newt uses a 3" focuser. I thinking the Universe would make a nice fit for my Fast scope.

GregW




No he is not.. He is talking about the objective. The focal reducer is 2" anyways. Everything is t-thread too.

It's and APS sized sensor..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mallin
Vendor - Mallincam Video


Reged: 01/27/11

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: jgraham]
      #5460981 - 10/08/12 05:21 PM

John,

You misunderstood my post. A output of 3" or more is required to avoid vignetting. When I tested on a SCT, the baffled draw tube where the mirror rides on is simply too small and too long in some case thus creating vignetting. But when I tried on on a Ritchey-Chretien optical tube (VRC 10), it has a 3"+ output at the rear where no vignetting were present. We tested the same on a TeleVueis and results were spectacular to say the least.

Hope this clear the misunderstanding.

Regards,
Rock Mallin


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mallin
Vendor - Mallincam Video


Reged: 01/27/11

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5460987 - 10/08/12 05:26 PM

Hi,

The ccd sensor used is a Sony ICX413AQS scientific grade class 0 only. Nothing else is used. Standard ICX413AQ is fine but does not have the sensitivity and low noise of the ICX413AQS. These sensors are very difficult to obtained.

Rock M.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mallin
Vendor - Mallincam Video


Reged: 01/27/11

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5460991 - 10/08/12 05:33 PM

"Our 0.5X focal reducer for the Universe must be used with a telescope of 3" or above output to avoid vignetting."

This is from my earlier post. It clearly state: "used with a TELESCOPE of 3" or above output."

Rock M.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
greg
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: Central Ca.
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mallin]
      #5461497 - 10/09/12 12:53 AM

Quote:

John,

You misunderstood my post. A output of 3" or more is required to avoid vignetting. When I tested on a SCT, the baffled draw tube where the mirror rides on is simply too small and too long in some case thus creating vignetting. But when I tried on on a Ritchey-Chretien optical tube (VRC 10), it has a 3"+ output at the rear where no vignetting were present. We tested the same on a TeleVueis and results were spectacular to say the least.

Hope this clear the misunderstanding.

Regards,
Rock Mallin




So output does mean output... Thanks for clearing that up Rock.
I used 3" focuser (output) for this same reason... the wide light cone of my f3.3 would cause vignetting with a 2" focuser.

GregW

Edited by greg (10/09/12 01:17 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: greg]
      #5461590 - 10/09/12 03:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

John,You misunderstood my post. A output of 3" or more is required to avoid vignetting. When I tested on a SCT, the baffled draw tube where the mirror rides on is simply too small and too long in some case thus creating vignetting. But when I tried on on a Ritchey-Chretien optical tube (VRC 10), it has a 3"+ output at the rear where no vignetting were present. We tested the same on a TeleVueis and results were spectacular to say the least.
Hope this clear the misunderstanding. Regards,
Rock Mallin


So output does mean output... Thanks for clearing that up Rock.I used 3" focuser (output) for this same reason... the wide light cone of my f3.3 would cause vignetting with a 2" focuser.GregW


Ummm...So we need an expensive Ritchey-Chretien (VRC 10), TeleVue or equal with a 3" aperture focuser to avoid vignetting via the x0.5 FR

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
greg
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: Central Ca.
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: nytecam]
      #5462056 - 10/09/12 12:44 PM

I think it depends on back focus, If (big IF) I understand it right, the problem (Which is common) is the long tube that the primary mirror slides in and out for focusing an SCT OTA. I don't have that problem with a Fast Newtonian.
I think this another case of trade off's which often happens when we mix and match equipment. With so many types of scopes, adaptors, camera's, and so on.... Trade off's are unavoidable.

GregW


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dwight J
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/14/09

Loc: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: nytecam]
      #5462241 - 10/09/12 02:34 PM

Thinking of purchasing a Universe Nytecam?

Edited by Dwight J (10/09/12 02:35 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05

Loc: Louisiana
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: greg]
      #5462313 - 10/09/12 03:16 PM

Greg,

I am working on getting an adapter from Dean at Starizona for my 11" HyperStar. The FOV will be 1.5x2.5 degrees at f/2. Deam mentioned that the maximum diagonal chip size for the 11" HS is 27mm, but the Universe has a 28.4mm diagonal CCD sensor. Dean says it will work.

More to follow.

Jack


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mallin]
      #5462563 - 10/09/12 05:31 PM

Quote:

Hi,

The ccd sensor used is a Sony ICX413AQS scientific grade class 0 only. Nothing else is used. Standard ICX413AQ is fine but does not have the sensitivity and low noise of the ICX413AQS. These sensors are very difficult to obtained.

Rock M.




Ah that's right... THE CHIP DUMMY! (referring to me).. Very nice.. The science grade chips are sweet.. And class 0 to boot? Excellent.....(As Mr. Burn's would say.....)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5462744 - 10/09/12 07:42 PM

Vignetting with focal reducers has two primary sources.

1) The far field obstructor. Examples include the inner opening on SCT primary baffles, or Newtonian secondary mirrors. Due to their considerable distance from the focus, any vignetting they introduce is seen as a more gradual fall-off in illumination, beginning immediately from the edge of the circle of full illumination.

2) The near field obstructor, which here is the reducer's clear aperture. The vignetting introduced here is of a more rapid fall-off somewhere near the field edge, the 'sharpness' of the shadowing being due to the relative nearness of the the reducer to the focus.

A reducer in a cell of 2" OD does *not* require a 3" rear opening on the scope. Even a 2" opening is good. In fact, said rear aperture need be hardly larger than the reducer's clear aperture. Remember, the only light getting through to the focus is that which enters the reducer's front aperture; light outside this is of no account.

The Universe's 28.4mm diagonal demands of a reducer working at 0.5X a clear aperture of *at least* 2" if near field vignetting is to be minimal. This is impractical for most scopes. And so there is a sharp fall-off near the edges on the long dimension. But the component of far field vignetting, upon which the near field vignetting is superimposed, is not itself affected by the reducer, beyond the expected reduction in scale of the illumination profile. That is, whether a 0.5X reducer has a small or large clear aperture, the far field vignetting is the same, but the too-small reducer aperture superimposes its own component of sharper fall-off inside the field edge.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mallin
Vendor - Mallincam Video


Reged: 01/27/11

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: nytecam]
      #5462761 - 10/09/12 07:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

John,You misunderstood my post. A output of 3" or more is required to avoid vignetting. When I tested on a SCT, the baffled draw tube where the mirror rides on is simply too small and too long in some case thus creating vignetting. But when I tried on on a Ritchey-Chretien optical tube (VRC 10), it has a 3"+ output at the rear where no vignetting were present. We tested the same on a TeleVueis and results were spectacular to say the least.
Hope this clear the misunderstanding. Regards,
Rock Mallin


So output does mean output... Thanks for clearing that up Rock.I used 3" focuser (output) for this same reason... the wide light cone of my f3.3 would cause vignetting with a 2" focuser.GregW


Ummm...So we need an expensive Ritchey-Chretien (VRC 10), TeleVue or equal with a 3" aperture focuser to avoid vignetting via the x0.5 FR




Hi,

That depends of you telescope choice. Make sure if you use large sensors that your scope will be compatible to it. many SCT have a small and long mirror draw tube and cause vignetting to camera when used with a focal reducer. Just makes sense here. If you go too wide (field of view) some undesirable effect may result thus choosing the right telescope for the job is necessary. Good planning good judgement is key before spending all kind of money on stuff that may not be compatible to your telescope.

Low cost telescope = money saved. But will have to spend again to get it right with many new cameras on the market today. Its all up to you and about your budget.

At least we come forward saying "you need at least 3" of rear optical output".

Rock M.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: mallin]
      #5508813 - 11/07/12 06:21 PM

Any more updates, reports or news about the Universe?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5510250 - 11/08/12 04:59 PM

Quote:

Any more updates, reports or news about the Universe?


Agreed - it's a month since the last report

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5510328 - 11/08/12 05:46 PM

Quote:

Any more updates, reports or news about the Universe?




I've started using a script that combines the Universe software with Deep Sky Stacker Live. Really enhances the video like aspects of the camera. I'm very pleased with the results.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
geminijk
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/03/08

Loc: TN
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: Lorence]
      #5515176 - 11/11/12 10:16 PM

Quote:



I've started using a script that combines the Universe software with Deep Sky Stacker Live. Really enhances the video like aspects of the camera. I'm very pleased with the results.




So anything to share with us? Any video of that working?

john


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: The new Universe is in and working new [Re: geminijk]
      #5515337 - 11/12/12 12:11 AM

I think they're posting them all in the Mallincam forums. I'd recommend heading over there. It would be nice to have a larger discussion on CN though.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)


Extra information
2 registered and 7 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  csa/montana, JayinUT 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 8550

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics