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Equipment Discussions >> Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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A. Viegas
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5724902 - 03/10/13 11:04 PM

what EMCCD or sCMOS astronomy video camera is that? What exists today that works right out of the box and is higher end than a mallincam X2 ??????

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A. Viegas
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5724903 - 03/10/13 11:04 PM

what EMCCD or sCMOS astronomy video camera is that? What exists today that works right out of the box and is higher end than a mallincam X2 ??????

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ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5724922 - 03/10/13 11:17 PM

Just to provide a general sense...

Search fleaBay on EMCCD.
There are two used items for sale for merely $9999 each,
since budget is with no limit?

For new ones, ask Andor.

P.S. be careful on sCMOS, there are fake/mis-labeled devices pretending to be sCMOS (Scientific CMOS).


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A. Viegas
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5724941 - 03/10/13 11:31 PM

Neat... So here is the spec sheet for one of those EMCCD cameras

Photometric's EMCCD

And I found this thread where some one was asking about using an older EMCCD for photometry... Checkout the picture, looks like a Meade 10" SCT with the EMCCD camera attached...

EMCCD on a Meade sct

Finally, here is a whole line of super high end professional astronomy cameras...

Pro astro cameras

Ok... So I would very curious to see some typical DSO images captured on the fly with one of these fancy cameras, no processing just a screen capture...

Al


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ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5724946 - 03/10/13 11:34 PM

Also a brief discussion on EMCCD in CCD subforum here in CN:
linkie


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5724947 - 03/10/13 11:35 PM

Here EMCCD for half price

http://www.surveillance-video.com/toshiba-ik-1000-starlight-color-video-1-2-c...


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ccs_hello
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/03/04

Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: Stew57]
      #5724958 - 03/10/13 11:41 PM

Watch out for that one.
Inconsistent description throughout.
Still talking about the regular QE figure and interline CCD...

The EMCCD image senor itself:
http://phxatl.com/data_sheets/tc285.html


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issdaol
member


Reged: 01/01/10

Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5724981 - 03/11/13 12:03 AM

Quote:

the original poster said he had no real budgetary concerns so I don't see the value in suggesting a modified security camera. In fact I think it important to point out for newbies that a Samsung or one of those Chinese Ntech cameras require some modification to work with your astro equipment. Hence it's not like you can just open the FedEx box and start imaging right away, rather with some of these cameras you need to remove Filters or solder wires and then deal with control interfaces not designed for astronomy.

Personally I do not have the patience nor interest in DIY video astronomy, that is why I went with a mallincam extreme. It worked great within 10 minutes of putting it into the SCT visual back. I am sure we will see a new generation of higher resolution video cameras for astronomy over the next few years... But for now for true live imaging, the Extreme is a great product and given the OP low priority on how much is spent, it seems we should fous on the higher end products. Heck, I am curious too... What can $5k or $10k buy in ultra high end video astronomy?

Al




Hi Al,

Thanks for keeping a practical perspective on this :-)

I have just had a quick look at some of the scientific cameras/sensors and they look very interesting.

If I had the time I am sure I could get something operational.

However at this stage my preference is to buy a fully integrated "top end" live view cam for astronomy

It seems that out of all of the posts there are 2 recommendations for Mallincam Extreme.

I am surprised that the Mallincam seems to be the only fully integrated "top end" live view cam for astronomy. Or are there better spec'd options out there still??

cheers


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mattflastro
Vendor - Astrovideo Systems


Reged: 07/31/09

Loc: Brevard County , FL
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5725170 - 03/11/13 03:20 AM

Quote:

Watch out for that one.
Inconsistent description throughout.
Still talking about the regular QE figure and interline CCD...

The EMCCD image senor itself:
http://phxatl.com/data_sheets/tc285.html



A few years ago I was working on a project with one of the smaller Impactron ccd's when TI just discontinued the chip. I wasn't aware that any of the family is still available.


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Dwight J
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/14/09

Loc: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: mattflastro]
      #5725229 - 03/11/13 04:56 AM

Predictable eh. Now that the water is sufficiently muddied you may be regretting asking the original question. I started with a Mallincam and seemed to have figured out how to use it and was up and running the first night. The low end cams are not turnkey and for me, I like remote control without needing an engineering degree , cooling, and long exposure capability.

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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: Atl]
      #5725591 - 03/11/13 11:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

SCB-4000
http://www.surveillance-video.com/scb4000.html?cmp=googleproducts&kw=scb4...




That's hilarious...I should have played it off instead of being a jerk. What an accurate mistake.




It is funny ... and an honest mistake. Neat way to learn about a new camera though.

We can only hope that this and other 1/2" cameras do indeed come down more in price ...


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John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5725827 - 03/11/13 01:08 PM

Of course if Mono is ok as it is with me, there is always the StellaCam III, Black and white and cooled. Still sold through Optcorp.
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=9300


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Atl
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: Dwight J]
      #5726250 - 03/11/13 04:20 PM

Quote:

Predictable eh. Now that the water is sufficiently muddied you may be regretting asking the original question. I started with a Mallincam and seemed to have figured out how to use it and was up and running the first night. The low end cams are not turnkey and for me, I like remote control without needing an engineering degree , cooling, and long exposure capability.




I wouldn't say that the non dedicated cams are not turnkey. My camera is very easy. That Mintron model has been and still is being sold as dedicated astronomy and microscope cameras. I am fairly certain that they were sold as the Gstar for a time.


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: Atl]
      #5726627 - 03/11/13 07:08 PM

Some cameras are turnkey, some aren't, and on those often the degree of modification depends on what you want to get out of a camera. Creating anything remotely close to a StellaCam III or a Mallincam is very difficult.

The most common mod is to remove the IR filter. On most security cameras this is a fairly simple mechanical mod, not electrical. On many cameras this makes a dramatic improvement in sensitivity.
Adding the wires for a remote handbox is a bit more involved, you need reasonable soldering skills as the points to attach to are very small. Some cameras now have an external connector and this makes this mod/upgrade much easier.
Cooling mods are much much more involved (cold finger under the CCD, physically mounting the Peltier cooler, re organizing the interior to get heat away from the Peltier cooler, etc. You need electrical knowledge, fine soldering skills, metal work skills, etc.
Re programming the DSP in some of the latest cameras is well beyond the capabilities of the vast majority of folks around here.


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issdaol
member


Reged: 01/01/10

Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5740151 - 03/18/13 06:39 AM

Hi All,

Thanks for all the input. It appear that although there are some very good scientific camera options the only real high performance turnkey solution that matches what I want is the Mallincam.

Thx for the help

cheers


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mattflastro
Vendor - Astrovideo Systems


Reged: 07/31/09

Loc: Brevard County , FL
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: issdaol]
      #5740790 - 03/18/13 02:05 PM

Quote:

Hi All,

Thanks for all the input. It appear that although there are some very good scientific camera options the only real high performance turnkey solution that matches what I want is the Mallincam.

Thx for the help

cheers



What is your definition of "turnkey solution" ?
Any of those scientific cameras are turnkey, they don't require any modifications.
They just need a nosepiece and a power cable.
If you have the funds to buy a $10k camera, is a nosepiece a problem ? Just keeping things in perspective .


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Dwight J
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/14/09

Loc: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: mattflastro]
      #5740847 - 03/18/13 02:44 PM

Lost another to the dark side eh Matt.

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Atl
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: mattflastro]
      #5740891 - 03/18/13 03:02 PM

I agree. I have noted that the camera I own is sold as a dedicated security camera, a dedicated microscope camera and a dedicated astronomy camera. Mallincam is undoubtedly good, but this doesn't lessen other choices.

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mattflastro
Vendor - Astrovideo Systems


Reged: 07/31/09

Loc: Brevard County , FL
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: Atl]
      #5740910 - 03/18/13 03:09 PM

Quote:

I agree. I have noted that the camera I own is sold as a dedicated security camera, a dedicated microscope camera and a dedicated astronomy camera. Mallincam is undoubtedly good, but this doesn't lessen other choices.



One of the previous posters referred to Princeton Instruments EMCCD cameras, used for real time video astronomy and lucky imaging.
It doesn't get any more real time and live than that but to some Mallincam zealots, or shills, it's always "Mallincam is the only real video high performance tur(n)key cam".


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Video Camera Advice for astro new [Re: mattflastro]
      #5741326 - 03/18/13 06:13 PM

There is always these to try out
http://www.andor.com/scientific-cameras/ixon-emccd-camera-series/ixon-ultra-8...

Or maybe someone buy one of these for me
http://www.princetoninstruments.com/products/imcam/versarray/

Actually anything on this page is acceptable
http://www.princetoninstruments.com/products/imcam/

Point is there are a lot more expensive equipment out there if one has the $$$.


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