asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 2021
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Video Binoviewing
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Rick
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 2574
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Whoa! This idea sounds waaaaay toooo kewl!
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www.japanastro.com
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warf
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/25/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Wisconsin
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Do you think that people who have issues merging images in a standard binoviewer would also have the same issue using the Video binoviewer?
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Marsh
Celestron NS 11 GPS, Denk Standard Binoviewer, Pair of Denk 21 EP, Denk PowerSwitch Diagonal, Denk PST Corrector, Coronado PST Double Stacked, WO ZS80 Anniversary,Celestron 15x70 Binoculars
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warf
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/25/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Wisconsin
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I know you didn't want to get brand specific, but what are some of the brand names out there? This is a really neat concept but I am totally newbie to HMD equipment and being able to go to the Manufacturer websites to start learning more about the equipment would be very helpful.
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Marsh
Celestron NS 11 GPS, Denk Standard Binoviewer, Pair of Denk 21 EP, Denk PowerSwitch Diagonal, Denk PST Corrector, Coronado PST Double Stacked, WO ZS80 Anniversary,Celestron 15x70 Binoculars
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Ohatchee
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/27/07
Posts: 501
Loc: Daphne, Alabama USA
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*this site won't let me say what I wanted to say, so now I say this.*....I thought I was done buying stuff for awhile.
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Regards, Brian
CPC1100 XLT / Denk II's & Powerswitch S2 / 66mm Zenithstar / TV 35 & 24mm Panoptic / TV 13mm Ethos / TV 22 & 11mm Nagler / Bluestar Wireless / Lymax CosmicOne / Coronado PST / Philips SPC900NC / Mallincam Hyper Plus Color
Ohatchee's Observatory - Daphne, Alabama (Gulf Coast between Mobile and Pensacola)
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Ohatchee
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/27/07
Posts: 501
Loc: Daphne, Alabama USA
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Warf....Vuzix seems to be a reasonably-priced and popular brand out there. My brother has a pair made by Vuzix. My understanding is that even Brookstone does carry or is planning to carry them.
http://www.vuzix.com/
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Regards, Brian
CPC1100 XLT / Denk II's & Powerswitch S2 / 66mm Zenithstar / TV 35 & 24mm Panoptic / TV 13mm Ethos / TV 22 & 11mm Nagler / Bluestar Wireless / Lymax CosmicOne / Coronado PST / Philips SPC900NC / Mallincam Hyper Plus Color
Ohatchee's Observatory - Daphne, Alabama (Gulf Coast between Mobile and Pensacola)
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highfnum
super member
Reged: 09/06/06
Posts: 104
Loc: NY
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That was a very funny comment about having to buy another item. I know the feeling
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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After John, Tony and I had the first viewing session with his video glasses and my MallinCam I did a search to see all the various models of video glasses.
Here is a link to the top 10: www.coolbuzz.org/entry/top-10-video-glasses/
I really liked The Lumus PD-20 series which look like regular clear eye glasses but they project the image directly in your line of sight. You can't really tell that you are wearing anything other than a normal pair of eyeglasses. They won't be out for another year or two. The technology is made available by Lumus but the end product will be manufactured by some one else. Check out the video demonstration at their website: www.lumus-optical.com/
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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Mogster
sage
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 296
Loc: Manchester, England
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I've been casualy watching this tech develop for video gaming purposes. It never occured to me that you could use them with an electronic ep and a scope.
The problem as yet is the low resolution mini lcd's, around 640x480 res just doesn't cut it when you're used to viewing at least 1024x768 on you're PC monitor.
Cheap high res mini lcd's will come in time though, I give it 5 years, then this tech will explode.
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CPC 9.25, Orion 127 Mak, WO Zenithstar 2 80APO, Coronado PST, Pentax 12X50 WP
Edited by Mogster (10/12/07 06:25 AM)
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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The video glasses we used in our test were 640 x 480 resolution and higher resolution glasses are currently available. The only note is that you are limited by the cameras resolution and most video cameras use 1/2 inch chips that don't require anymore resoltion anyway.
Believe it or not, most folks using the MallinCam report better images on an old CRT monitor type television than the LCD screens on the laptops. I found my best images were projected on my 50" plasma TV in my home but when you're out at a dark sky location or star party it's hard to beat a large screen image in the video glasses.
I mounted a 3.5" WATEC-35 high resolution color monitor on my UTA which has excellent images, but it is a small screen. I use it for centering and focusing on targets while the camera is in the focuser. It is great for viewing but the glasses provide for a much larger image which allows you to see the center star in The Ring Nebula much better.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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Ohatchee
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/27/07
Posts: 501
Loc: Daphne, Alabama USA
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I have a Mallincam Hyper Color Plus and use a 14" 800-line color video monitor out in the field. It is great for star parties. However, the "glasses" approach would allow me to more quickly make focus adjustments for each new target. As it is now, depending upon which way the scope is facing and how far it is positioned from the video monitor, I have to face away from the video monitor (or turn the monitor) in many instances and go back-and-forth to get the focus on the mark. With the glasses, I could stay at the focus knob and do it real-time and then send the signal on to the monitor. Can you tell I'm looking for a way to justify such a purchase? 
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Regards, Brian
CPC1100 XLT / Denk II's & Powerswitch S2 / 66mm Zenithstar / TV 35 & 24mm Panoptic / TV 13mm Ethos / TV 22 & 11mm Nagler / Bluestar Wireless / Lymax CosmicOne / Coronado PST / Philips SPC900NC / Mallincam Hyper Plus Color
Ohatchee's Observatory - Daphne, Alabama (Gulf Coast between Mobile and Pensacola)
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highfnum
super member
Reged: 09/06/06
Posts: 104
Loc: NY
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Dont feel so bad I'm saving up for a mallincan thats more thanthe price of 99 percent of the video glasses out there - focusing is easier you can "slip" your vision over or under the glasses
You can split the signal - one line to monitor one to glasses
The Author
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CarolG
sage
Reged: 10/16/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Oklahoma
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What appeals to me (another justification?) is that they are so portable. A few days ago I was in a dark location with only my small scope. I had my Mallincam, but didn't want to lug the monitor with me, so I essentially couldn't use the camera. The glasses would have been perfect. The camera and glasses are small enough to travel with. Not so with the monitor. Gee, I'm talking myself into one of these!! 
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Carol
NS11 XLT on a Scopebuggy
TV85 w/FeatherTouch/DM4/SC
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Larry F
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 1396
Loc: Westchester, NY
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Doug:
At the WAA club meeting tonight we're going to pass a resolution requiring you to bring the 50" plasma screen to observing night!
Larry
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C5 Orange Tube SCT
Orion 127 Mak
SV Nighthawk (1st generation)
CPC 800 XLT SCT
Coronado Maxscope 40
5 1/4" f/5.2 home-built Newtonian
Denk II Binos
Giro 2/Tech2000 Giro Driver/Tech2000 QuickDraw Pier
A zillion eyepieces and some more mounts
Mason & Hamlin BB 214 cm (piano)
My Gallery
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George N
sage
Reged: 05/19/06
Posts: 310
Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
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Is there any 'light leak' that might bother other observers at a star party?
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George N
Obsession 20
Optical Guidance Systems 10" F/9 R-C Cass
6" F/5 & 8" F/8 home-made Newts
MI-250 mount
SBIG STL-1301E CCD
Member, International Dark-Sky Association
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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There wasn't any light leaking out the side that I could see. I was wondering how I could use my MallinCam at a star party without interfering with other folks who prefer their dark eye adaptation. This would be a solution. You could turn them off before removing them and turn them on only after they are mounted on your head to avoid stray light.
Mark, a MallinCam yahoo forum participant, came up with this link to many, many HMD options. It is a very cool website with excellent gear: www.vrealities.com
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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highfnum
super member
Reged: 09/06/06
Posts: 104
Loc: NY
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glasses come with rubber light guard that u can put on or off
Author
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F8thful
super member
Reged: 06/14/05
Posts: 152
Loc: Albany, Oregon
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Hello John,
I really was encouraged to read your article on electronic bino viewing on CN. I've been thinking along these lines myself. Yours is the ideal answer to my mental wanderings.
I have wanted to build either a long slow newtonian or a binocular newtonian. I've been asking questions on a couple different forums. I've been trying to find someone who could tell me if you could get as good a view on a monitor as you can get looking through an eyepiece.
My thought for a binoscope was to use two cameras and put both images on one or two monitors and then view the monitor(s) with a stereoscope type setup.
The problems with binonewtonians is that you have to view them from the front with your back to the image. Your left eye is viewing the right mirror and the right eye is viewing the left mirror. I'm not sure how that will mix up the image but I'm guessing it puts images that should appear close, in the distance and images that should be distant would appear in the foreground.
If it is possible to use an HMD and get the image from the right mirror into the right monitor and the left mirror into the left monitor, the HMD could be a huge improvement over a stereoscope.
I believe the technology you are using is about to come into it's own. I think we will always look through eyepieces but with the improvement in high resolution cameras and monitors the views will be as good or better using electronic viewing and you won't have to climb a ladder or sit backwards to enjoy incredible views.
Thanks for spending the time to write and submit your article. I would appreciate hearing what you think about the image quality in the HMD as opposed to viewing through an optical binoviewer.
Thanks Again
Glen Ray
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10" Dob project
New 10" 10 Yr. old Dob project
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highfnum
super member
Reged: 09/06/06
Posts: 104
Loc: NY
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Thank you for your response
You have nothing to fear - JMI makes bino-newtonians I do not own one but I tried one - no problem they work
anyway left eye right eye is relative to which way your looking at scope
there are 2 kinds HMDs
steroscopic and monoscopic
my motive was at first to save weight - its a pain to lug a video monitor
Then I noticed that you get a big TV view in a small package
but it's still a TV view - not 3D TV
think of going to the movies - big screen still 2D
you can do what you want - it cost more
HMD's run from 150 dollars to 50,000 dollars !
3D is possible but it requires software and PC and steroscopic HMD
1) capture video image
2) apply 3D software algorithm
3) Use steroscopic HMD
4) Image will have 3D feel
5) keep in mind - its a brain trick - all objects are so far away - true 3D is impossible
6) the up side - you get better contrast because you are using both eyes and all visual part of your brain
binoview scops and binoviewers give very good 3D effect - the human eye-brain thing is really something else
however u are still limited in quantum eye capture few percent
video camera like mallicam go go very deep - u get color something thats very hard to do with eyes alone
I hope this article will inspire others to dig deeper
go this link
www.vrealities.com
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WadeVC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 2799
Loc: Lodi, California,
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That sounds awesome! I have never even heard of such a gizmo. Thanks for the review!!
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Orion XTi10 f/4.7
Orion XTi8 f/5.9
Meade NGC 70mm f/10
Orion UltraView 10x50 Wide-Angle Binoculars
My Sketch Gallery
My Astronomy Blog
A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top.
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john D
All you have to do is ask!!
Reged: 08/05/07
Posts: 4958
Loc: Midlothian, VA
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nice review! 
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Meade ETX-125
Meade LXD55 mount
Philips SPC900NC webcam
Seymour Solar filter
Backyard Observatory
 -Midlothian VA
--Land Of The Free Because Of The Brave--
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Chris Schroeder
Postmaster
Reged: 12/11/04
Posts: 5096
Loc: N.E. WI Sky Glow
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Is the focus adjustable indepently for each eye?
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Chris
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
10" DSH with SC DSC, CPC 800 XLT
M102ED S.V., ZS 80FD 10th Anniv, ZS 66SD, PST
POD XL3 http://POD.SchroederCity.com
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highfnum
super member
Reged: 09/06/06
Posts: 104
Loc: NY
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No for my model fixed lens - others may have this feature
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Late_Cretaceous
super member
Reged: 07/23/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta
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Aside from the Mallincam, are there any ordinary webcams that could be used for this with reasonable results?
How about the Toucam?
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