rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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As is.. what it is I do..... 
Here we begin the thread for the fabrication of the OTA of my 10"f/16.
It all begins with the early delivery of the 12" .090 wl 14ft of aluminum tube.
The truck used to deliver it was waaay to large for proper turn around here at GOMOC...so I drove up the road and picked it up out of the back of the 18 wheelers trailor. 
So I got to actually deliver to the site...my own tube from Hastings. Magine that.
They were prompt and the tube is well packed(well.. its in a large box...if that counts).
Here is the first pic of the monster hinding in its *box*. in the doorway of the scope shop.
Later this evening I'll bust it loose and check for damages...then begin again at fabricating the spotter mount...and begin making the baffles.
It will definately need serious sanding and removal of the welding seam.....for sure. Painting it Celery green..
Weeeeee......
Now Back plates can be made and lens cells too.....
Rob 
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3520
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Well Rob if it's damaged it can still be used in your new irrigation system for watering your acreage if the climate drastically changes!!  Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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So open the darned box already! 
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Well Rob if it's damaged it can still be used in your new irrigation system for watering your acreage if the climate drastically changes!! Mike
Good idea...however, you need to think bigger.
I was thinking of using it as a *culvert* across the road.. to the lower 48....
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
So open the darned box already!
I will......I have several more patients till that unvailing.
You think it will be silvery......  
JeffB will probably attest to its silveryness..... 
I'll sneek away in a moment and take a peek.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Sun popped out so I ran out to the scope shop and pulled the tube out of its box.......Bamn! Man is that tube buge!
First thing I noticed is a *DENT* midway on the tube.
A dent! The ends were perfect..no problems...but a dent!
Well I huffed it up onto my optical bench for a closer look and sure enough a dent that coveres about 3" of surface. I probably can knock it out with a long hammer....
Here it is on the bench.
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Here is another with the dent visible.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Here I circled the dent......I hope I can get this thing out.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Might have to drill a little hole and use a dent puller. That's sure a bummer.
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 8672
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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If it is an Oil can type dent, don't use a hammer or drill any holes, use one of those suction cup dent pullers and it should come right out.
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There are no winners in war, only bigger losers.
Jim
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3520
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Well if you're lucky it might just be hidden by your saddle on the bottom side!  Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 618
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Boy, that's one huge pipe 
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Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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Pedestal
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/11/06
Posts: 3855
Loc: Smoggy Bottom, Baytown,Texas
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Make yourself a wooden wedge-type dent "pusher", similar to what they use on shotgun barrels.
Hubert
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Hubert
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www.smoggybottom.org
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actionhac
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/09/08
Posts: 732
Loc: WA
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I would use a jack to push out the dent from the inside. You may need to make a split ring with the jack inside and slide it down the tube to the dent.
That's quite a scope your building. I can't wait to see the mount.
Robert
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DAVIDG
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 1985
Loc: Hockessin, De
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In college I worked on restorting pipe organs and removing dents from pipes was a common practice. Some of the pipes I work on were over 20 feet long. The method that we used was to make up a couple of hardwood plugs that were tapered slightly. The first plug would be about 1/4" smaller in OD then ID of the pipe. It was drive down the pipe with 2" x 4". Many time we attached the plug to the end of the 2" x 4". The processes was repeated a couple of times, each time with a plug that was larger in diameter to finally one was used that had the same OD as the ID of the pipe. Many time when the processes was finished you could not tell that the pipe was ever damaged. Good Luck.
- Dave
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Homemade 'scopes 8"f/7,6" f/5", 6"f/4, 4.25" Schief. 60mm Coronagraph,60mm H-alpha system, 4.25" White-light Solar Newtonian,solar spectroscope, 4.5" f/16 Schupmann Medial refractor, 14 Stellafane awards 7 in optics
Engineering = Taking what you have and making what you need.
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Homa
super member
Reged: 06/21/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Germany,by Hamburg
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Hi,Rob
big tube  
how many is the thick wall and weight of your tube?
you need a very high pier
you need a ladder to observing at horizon
Regards Marc
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i very like historic refractors
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Owen
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/21/07
Posts: 514
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Here's what I would do...
Chuck a bag of dry-ice (drikold, solid CO2) on it (like the 'paint free dent repai guys) - and watch it pop right out...
Alternatively, get some all-thread (10mm +), a nice big T nut a piece of 4" square timber, and some ply...
From the ply route a few disks (one fractionally less, the next, slighty smaller again, and so on.
Glue the ply together to form a crude tapered disk, drill a central (ish) hole, and insert T nut.
Drill hole in 4" timber centrally, so that the load is spread over the tube.
Using the all thread, and a spare pair of nuts, draw the disk down the pipe (will need a socket wrench at the worst of the dent...)
It will push it back out.
Have fun
Owen
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Might have to drill a little hole and use a dent puller. That's sure a bummer.
Indeed...it's a bummer. Not sure I'm gonna drill any holes yet. Still planning my attack.
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
If it is an Oil can type dent, don't use a hammer or drill any holes, use one of those suction cup dent pullers and it should come right out.
I've used those type of pullers..they work good on thin walled door pannels...but pulling back .090 material will be a bit tougher. That's nearly 1/8" thick.
Tough stuff.
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Well if you're lucky it might just be hidden by your saddle on the bottom side! Mike
Mike.....that was my first thought. Just hide it. But It would bother me to complete distraction.
No matter what I do that spot will still be blemished so it will probably live close by the saddle anyway.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Boy, that's one huge pipe
Yeah...I could lay my 6"f/15 down inside of it several times.
It hit home...how really big this scope is gonna be. Here is an image of it resting longways on my optical bench.
I'm so glad I have the Cave *Observatory Series* mount for it. It needs a HUGE mount for sure.
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Make yourself a wooden wedge-type dent "pusher", similar to what they use on shotgun barrels.
Hubert
That will probably be the route I go. I might also use a scissor jack as well......
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
I would use a jack to push out the dent from the inside. You may need to make a split ring with the jack inside and slide it down the tube to the dent.
That's quite a scope your building. I can't wait to see the mount.
Robert
I have a scissor jack I can place on a split ring of wood. resting on one half and pressing against the other.
Just a couple of turns of the jack screw and I should be able to push the dent back out. I'll need to be mindful that the base rests possitively against the lower half of the wood split ring...so I don't create a *pushout* on the other side.
This idea is probably the easiest and less prior preparedness intensive.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
In college I worked on restorting pipe organs and removing dents from pipes was a common practice. Some of the pipes I work on were over 20 feet long. The method that we used was to make up a couple of hardwood plugs that were tapered slightly. The first plug would be about 1/4" smaller in OD then ID of the pipe. It was drive down the pipe with 2" x 4". Many time we attached the plug to the end of the 2" x 4". The processes was repeated a couple of times, each time with a plug that was larger in diameter to finally one was used that had the same OD as the ID of the pipe. Many time when the processes was finished you could not tell that the pipe was ever damaged. Good Luck.
- Dave
I have two methods I'm going to try. One is the scissor jack method with a wood split ring...and this method.
Jentle taps(sometimes harder then jentler), will push the plug against the dent and push it out. The problem is the dent is half way down the tube...that's about 7ft into the tube. It'll be fun no matter what I do.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Hi,Rob
big tube
how many is the thick wall and weight of your tube?
you need a very high pier
you need a ladder to observing at horizon
Regards Marc
Welcome. The tube wall thickness is .090. It weighs roughly 90lb (that's the shipping weight) and it will go on my Cave Observatory Series GEM and then onto a steel elevating pier. No ladders will be used. It will opperate in similar fasion to my hydraulic pier for my 6"f/15.
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Dry-ice.... That works
How in the world does that work?
Rob(in learning mode)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Sean Cunneen
Let Me Think
Reged: 08/01/07
Posts: 1222
Loc: Blue Island Illinois
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For the dry ice trick, I think you would spend more time sealing the ends of the tube to trap the gas than would be worth it.
I think you have a very irragating problem on your hands.
I would try David G's plug trick, to simple to NOT try first.
You could make a bundle of 2x4's with the plug on the bottom to fit the ID, Stand the tube on end and piledrive the bundle down till the dent goes away. We spend our entire lives working against gravity, let's have it do some of the work for once!
If you want to be green, make an ice plug.
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Sean Cunneen
Blue Island, IL
12.5" Ultralight Strut Dob
127mm f/9 refractor
35Pan, 10XW, 5XO
Member of the Calumet Astronomical Society
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DAVIDG
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 1985
Loc: Hockessin, De
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Quote:
Dry-ice.... That works
How in the world does that work?
Rob(in learning mode)
You place the dry ice over the dent to cool it. The theory is that the metal will shrink when cooled with dry ice causing the dent to pull itself out. For a shallow dent with no creasing of the metal and thin metal it sometimes will work very well. It just depends that the mechanical stress induced in the metal by cooling is great enough.
I have a couple of pieces of the Hasting tubing in my lab and with 0.090 wall thickness and it seems like pretty tough stuff but if you access to dry ice, give it a try.
- Dave
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Homemade 'scopes 8"f/7,6" f/5", 6"f/4, 4.25" Schief. 60mm Coronagraph,60mm H-alpha system, 4.25" White-light Solar Newtonian,solar spectroscope, 4.5" f/16 Schupmann Medial refractor, 14 Stellafane awards 7 in optics
Engineering = Taking what you have and making what you need.
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Sean Cunneen
Let Me Think
Reged: 08/01/07
Posts: 1222
Loc: Blue Island Illinois
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That is not nearly as loud as sealing up the tube with dry ice inside and letting the pressure pop the dent out! That's what I thought he meant. You learn something new every day around here!
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Sean Cunneen
Blue Island, IL
12.5" Ultralight Strut Dob
127mm f/9 refractor
35Pan, 10XW, 5XO
Member of the Calumet Astronomical Society
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Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 1987
Loc: Prescott, AZ
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So many creative suggestions from CN members. If you had gotten a larger objective, you could have sent one of the neighbors kids down the tube with a hammer
BTW, when do we get to see the objective?
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Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
So many creative suggestions from CN members. If you had gotten a larger objective, you could have sent one of the neighbors kids down the tube with a hammer
BTW, when do we get to see the objective?
I do have some pretty small neighbor kids.
The objective.....?
What's that..
That my friend is top secret.......It is in progress and I have no projected finish date at this time.
I've got a lot on my plate as it is. Not to mention having to *downsize* the office..... 
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Quote:
The objective.....?
What's that..
That my friend is top secret.......It is in progress and I have no projected finish date at this time.
I don't know if that's gonna fly here Rob. 
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
The objective.....?
What's that..
That my friend is top secret.......It is in progress and I have no projected finish date at this time.
I don't know if that's gonna fly here Rob.
I know...but what's a man supose to do when he doesn't have an answer......?
I could say.......*It's being addressed*....
This scope is not a production line scope....it is a HOBBY scope...and as you well know it could take years....light years...to finish.
I am working to make sure most other aspects of the tube/mounting/hardware/focuser are going to be ready the moment the objective is ready to place in it.
There is so much more to it then just the objective...for sure. I still have to get around to building the OB for it too.......
Since I have only a couple months into this project....I think its moving along smoothly.
Keep an eye on the other related threads so see *things* happen...
Rob(thanks for the support)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The objective.....?
What's that..
That my friend is top secret.......It is in progress and I have no projected finish date at this time.
I don't know if that's gonna fly here Rob.
I know...but what's a man supose to do when he doesn't have an answer......?
I could say.......*It's being addressed*....
This scope is not a production line scope....it is a HOBBY scope...and as you well know it could take years....light years...to finish.
I am working to make sure most other aspects of the tube/mounting/hardware/focuser are going to be ready the moment the objective is ready to place in it.
There is so much more to it then just the objective...for sure. I still have to get around to building the OB for it too.......
Since I have only a couple months into this project....I think its moving along smoothly.
Keep an eye on the other related threads so see *things* happen...
Rob(thanks for the support)
After great deliberation....I just wanted to inform the CN audiance that I will be selling the 10"f/16....and its Cave GEM when it is completed.
Not sure of the price at this time...but I'm sure you good people can help put a reasonable number on it.
Thanks.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 618
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Quote:
After great deliberation....I just wanted to inform the CN audiance that I will be selling the 10"f/16....and its Cave GEM when it is completed.
Not sure of the price at this time...but I'm sure you good people can help put a reasonable number on it.
Thanks.
Rob
 
The only question I can get in my mind: WHY?? After all the work and dedication?
--------------------
Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
After great deliberation....I just wanted to inform the CN audiance that I will be selling the 10"f/16....and its Cave GEM when it is completed.
Not sure of the price at this time...but I'm sure you good people can help put a reasonable number on it.
Thanks.
Rob
The only question I can get in my mind: WHY?? After all the work and dedication?
A long time ago..in a land far far away..I told my Sweetheart that I would like to build scopes for sale...you know..as a means of retirement income...
Well... I didn't realize that that meant *THIS* scope as well. My wife sees it as a sourse of income...not just a *thing* to have around cuz it's cool.
Thing is... I enjoy building them...and that in part is the *thrill* I get...not just owning them.
I further realized I needed to keep to my word so I am willingly going to put it up for sale.
I hope someone will come forward who might wish to buy it and might put a deposit down on it so I can finish it in a more timely manner.
If this turns out to be the case...I might even paint it the color the person prefers. (EEGAD..I can't believe I said that ) it's true..though.
Any way that's the deal.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 618
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Oh...well...I see. 
Would be nice though, if you start a business, to make another one for your self.
Anyway, the idea it's pretty catchy, you know. You could start to build custom scopes, and sell them. Something like Orange County Choppers but with astronomy gear.
On the other hand..I don't know...I would keep this one, the 10"/16 and sell the 6" version. Anyhow, I don't mean to put my hand between the bark and the tree. Aaa..I hope it's the right expression 
--------------------
Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3520
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Hey Rob....I'll cut to the chase here ahead of anyone else! What type of discount will you offer?? I had to ask it because sooner or later some chucklehead would eventually ask! Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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BradleyB
sage
Reged: 09/01/06
Posts: 267
Loc: Olympia, WA
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Rob,
I hope we all get a chance to view through it before it goes.
Brad
--------------------
Tom L. made 12.5" f6, "Endurance"
C80ED fixed up
Edmund 60mm f/6
Jason 60mm f/15
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Hey Rob....I'll cut to the chase here ahead of anyone else! What type of discount will you offer?? I had to ask it because sooner or later some chucklehead would eventually ask! Mike
Well Mike....If a D&G 10"f/16 objective alone costs nearly 8.5K.....I'm thinking that the scope along with the GEM for atleast that much is a deal.
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Rob,
I hope we all get a chance to view through it before it goes.
Brad
Oh..I'm sure I will...since I'm sure there are no long waiting lines for it.
I'll continue to build it and keep the phone lines open......for the big offer......Riiight.
I've never sold a big refractor for almost 10k...mount included.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Ian Robinson
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/29/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Gateshead.NSW Nth Coast,Austra...
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If you are on friendly terms with a panel beater , and the dry-ice (hyperchilling), or perhap liguid N2 might be better (if the dry-ice doesn't have enough pull in it), or the organ tube repair method doesn't work , then a panel beater will sort it no problem if he can access the dent from the tube end.
That's a whopper of a tube.
How heavy is the objective (10" of thick glass) will be pretty heavy I imagine) ?
Have you done your engineering calcs to ensure the tube will not bend enough to ruin the imaging of the telescope since the tube is so long and is so thin ?
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3520
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Yeah and make sure the tax thugs are paid off too!
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
If you are on friendly terms with a panel beater , and the dry-ice (hyperchilling), or perhap liguid N2 might be better (if the dry-ice doesn't have enough pull in it), or the organ tube repair method doesn't work , then a panel beater will sort it no problem if he can access the dent from the tube end.
That's a whopper of a tube.
How heavy is the objective (10" of thick glass) will be pretty heavy I imagine) ?
Have you done your engineering calcs to ensure the tube will not bend enough to ruin the imaging of the telescope since the tube is so long and is so thin ?
Well....the tube has a wall thickness of .090 and it is unsuported only for 4.5 ft on either end so I believe this will be sufficient support. It's tough stuff actually.
I don't have the final weight of the objective/cell so I can't tell you.
I've worked on removing the dent with a scissor jack on a curved base/top. I have yet to actually remove the dent...but everything is in place. I want to finish cutting off the extra 1ft of unneeded material first...so access to the dent will be easier.
I have been distracted in making the tube rings and the counterbalancing system...sooo...I'll get to the tube soon.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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PrestonE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/29/05
Posts: 1170
Loc: Houston,Texas
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Hi Rob, So Sorry to hear that you will be selling this Beauty...but I fully understand after taking delivery of our 11" F15 that we finally donated to the George Observatory due in all to the size and of thinking of housing it!!! 
As to removing the dent in the tube, kindly heat the dent to anneal it and soften it prior to ANY attempt to remove it, as it has hardened in the process or denting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best Regards,
Preston in San Miguel, Mexico for the time being
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A few I enjoy,
and a few more in the works ;<)
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Hi Rob, So Sorry to hear that you will be selling this Beauty...but I fully understand after taking delivery of our 11" F15 that we finally donated to the George Observatory due in all to the size and of thinking of housing it!!!
As to removing the dent in the tube, kindly heat the dent to anneal it and soften it prior to ANY attempt to remove it, as it has hardened in the process or denting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best Regards,
Preston in San Miguel, Mexico for the time being
Thanks Preston.....Yeah..My sweetheart is far more open to its build...knowing it will be sold. She knows I can build another...just like it if I wanted too...and she also knows I told her my initial aim was to build scopes that I could sell....So she called me on it.
As a hobby that requires ample hours of my time....time away from her...I needed to quickly do the math.
She openly accepts my hobby and all its trappings(shop,telescope garage, mirror making shop..etc..etc) So it is within my power to permit THAT hobby to *give* back.
She expects it...if I plan on giving it so much of my time and space.
Unlike the professional telescope builder..who can require a *down payment* to build you your scope...I have to probably wait till it's complete before anyone will remotely be interested.
Keeping such an instrument isn't a problem...nor is housing it in its own roll-off roof OB. Some day that is what I will do.
Rob(be safe in Mexico)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Of course you'll need at least a couple years with the scope set up to properly evaluate it's performance before it could possible be sold 
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Of course you'll need at least a couple years with the scope set up to properly evaluate it's performance before it could possible be sold
That's part of the selling process Scott.....
Glad to see you and I both understand that...
However......knowing the realities of things and also knowing how much *fudge* room I can build into this whole process.....My sweetheart will quickly recognize(through her superior intuition), that my *tests* are more likely manifestations of my *seporation* issues then anything else...
It will be a very sad day...a sad day indeed...when I have to look at the scope and tell the new owner...*yeah..take the stupid thing....just take it an leave*..... 
Sometimes you just have to make yourself think that your sorrow is nothing more then anger............to get through it.
Oh well....it's just a telescope  Oh my gosh....did I just say that....
Rob(I'm crossing over...I just know it) 
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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When the time comes and I have an extra 8 grand or so...... 
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
When the time comes and I have an extra 8 grand or so......
When you have the time and the horizen looks clear...we can make a trade.......
Me... a nice 18x18ft roll-off OB and you....ta..da..a brand spankin new 10"f/16 refractor with its GEM.
Not just any 10"f/16...but a cool..one of a kind...kind..
I intend to build another.....some day.
When you wake up....pinch me and wake me up too....K?
Rob(I don't think my sweetheart is thinkin trade.... ) But who knows.
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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jayscheuerle
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 4071
Loc: S. Philadelphia, PA
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My worst fear when either selling or giving away a scope I've made is that it doesn't get used and sits somewhere dusty and sad.
Of course, I'd certainly expect that an instrument like this will end up in passionate hands, unless you market it to the "more wealth than sense" contingent, which seems to be shrinking day by day. - j
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Fight indignorance!
The Green Goblin - 12" of dobsonian excellence!
The PortaBowl-a $100 4.5" f/8 ball-scope YOU can build!
Eero2-a 6" f/5 ball-scope you probably can't.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
My worst fear when either selling or giving away a scope I've made is that it doesn't get used and sits somewhere dusty and sad.
Of course, I'd certainly expect that an instrument like this will end up in passionate hands, unless you market it to the "more wealth than sense" contingent, which seems to be shrinking day by day. - j
Poignant view Jay.
I never explained to my sweetheart any stipulations to either the sale or aquisition of the scope to another.
Independant reasons vary and once seporation is made....one has to find solace in the notion that the scope will find (If anything) a home...in good hands. And if not(hard to believe)...then what business is that of mine...
I tried to explain to the family this very understanding when we sold one of our Great Dane puppies last night.
It is difficult to attempt to reason out the *after effects* of the exchange. They got the dog..I got the payment. I can't offord to guess what life the dog will live...outside our influences.
Applying this same *grasp* to the telescope gives me comfort to some degree. The logistics have to work themselves out internally.
I'm currently focusing on finishing each aspect I directly have control over...and when it's all done and finished....then will I grapple with seporation issues.
Currently I doubt anyone will be interested in such an instrument given the current economic climate.
It's not an APO...it's a dog gone big Achro.
Rob(Lack of interest may mean I get to keep it...after all) Don't tell my sweety.
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3520
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Quote:
Quote:
When the time comes and I have an extra 8 grand or so......
When you have the time and the horizen looks clear...we can make a trade.......
Me... a nice 18x18ft roll-off OB and you....ta..da..a brand spankin new 10"f/16 refractor with its GEM.
Boy did Scott walk into that one!!
--------------------
7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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I'm a sucker for a huge refractor.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When the time comes and I have an extra 8 grand or so......
When you have the time and the horizen looks clear...we can make a trade.......
Me... a nice 18x18ft roll-off OB and you....ta..da..a brand spankin new 10"f/16 refractor with its GEM.
Boy did Scott walk into that one!!
Scott's smart...he knows I set him up for that about a month ago.
Being a business man myself...I understand the benefit of a quality exchange...or *trade* when I see one.
I trade dental work all the time for skills of other folks...when the trade is in the best interest of both parties.
As a matter of fact...I just traded some dental work for a very nice traditional indian canoe rudder/paddle. Hightly ornate and painted in Eagles and feathers, and made from maple.
It's a $1200 paddle. The patient was in need and the trade was mutual.
I understand a good trade. I have something you need and you have something I want. That's my understanding.
Sometimes it works in reverse...where I need something you have and you need somthing I have.
This is how I entered into an agreement with my cuz to build my 17" fork mounted newt.
$3000 worth of dental work for his wife sealed the deal.
I'm getting the shorter end of the stick but I need that scope....
Rob(sale..trade..or barter) It's all good.
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Oh jeeze, now there's dental care on the table too!
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Oh jeeze, now there's dental care on the table too!
Depends on how uncomfortable you like to be....
Or if you like eating without teeth...
Rob(Poker face on)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Quote:
Or if you like eating without teeth...
You mean drinking beer?
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Sky Captain
Metal Whisperer
Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 7190
Loc: Issaquah, WA.
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Quote:
Rob(Lack of interest may mean I get to keep it...after all) Don't tell my sweety.
You can count on me to not say anything Rob. 
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Equipment Overload!
Kerry
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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OK..a bit more construction of *things*.
Some pix of the tube rings I am making can be found on the thread topic for them.
Material is 1/8 x 2" rolled steel. Both rings will be cut so I can weld on the hinges and clamping flange.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
Edited by rwiederrich (02/27/09 01:43 PM)
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Sky Captain
Metal Whisperer
Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 7190
Loc: Issaquah, WA.
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Those look great Rob...how did you roll the steel?
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Equipment Overload!
Kerry
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Post deleted by rwiederrich
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Details of this project have been moved to their own thread.....
To preven repeating and suckin up bandwidth.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Thought I'd post some pix of the scope in the scope garage being slowly assembled.
Here is one from the sice and a bit to the read....showing the twin focuser mounts.
The scope is resting on a CAVE OB series mount for assembly.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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This slightly elevated pic was taken across the room and up against the rafters...just to get the whole tube assembly in the picture.
I have strongly considered just polishing the aluminum tube to match the stainless steel spotter. I'm thinking of now painting the spotter mountes celery green...dew caps celery green...and the tube rings textured black to match the mount.
I think it will look awesome shinny with the light green accents.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 1987
Loc: Prescott, AZ
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Quote:
I think it will look awesome shinny with the light green accents.
Al Nagler will certainly approve
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Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making
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rboe
Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 45381
Loc: Phx, AZ
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Does Buck Rogers know you have stolen his spaceship? 
Very impressive! :bowP
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Ron
NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Does Buck Rogers know you have stolen his spaceship?
Very impressive! :bowP
I'm naming the scope .....
NCC-1701 Enterprise...
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Well...been in the paint booth a bit today..and I painted both finder mounts a nice celery green.
They will be the accent color and the tube will be polished aluminum(now that will be fun)
Here is a side view of the richfield mount.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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A bit different view.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Here is one of the main spotter mount.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Both together.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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And finally one more of the two together.
Now that these are done...I'll drill mounting holes in them and then into the tube for mounting.
Looks like the back plate is going to be next.
I'll need to get to my cuzns shop to do that.....
That will be fun....I'll need to track down some 1"+ plate aluminum that can be turned into what I need.
Fun fun fun.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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I've had decent luck finding specialty items on EBay
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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BTW Robby....Who told you I wanted the trim on my scope celery green?
I do like the idea of the polished aluminium though
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
BTW Robby....Who told you I wanted the trim on my scope celery green?
I do like the idea of the polished aluminium though
Good.....but I'm BIT behing the curve ball here.........
Am I supose to be under the impression that you...my CN internet friend....that you are truely interested in saving your rubles and laying them down on the barrel head....for this telescope?
If so what color do you want the hardware painted.....?
And if so should we come to an agreement of some kind?
Or.......Are we just having some internet fun......
I could keep going ahead and you could just accept what I do..or add you ownership requests.
This is getting fun.....
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3295
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Rob:
Just a suggestion...if you were to add 2 spring plungers to the finder holder, one
next to the retainer screw on the top rear, and one next to the top front screw, you could then use the 4 bottom screws to push the finder up against the plungers, adjusting the finder to align with the main scope. Once it is aligned, use the top screws to retain alignment. A quicker method would be to use the rubber band trick but the spring plungers would be a more permanent helper.
--------------------
Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Quote:
Quote:
BTW Robby....Who told you I wanted the trim on my scope celery green?
I do like the idea of the polished aluminium though
Good.....but I'm BIT behing the curve ball here.........
Am I supose to be under the impression that you...my CN internet friend....that you are truely interested in saving your rubles and laying them down on the barrel head....for this telescope?
If so what color do you want the hardware painted.....?
And if so should we come to an agreement of some kind?
Or.......Are we just having some internet fun......
I could keep going ahead and you could just accept what I do..or add you ownership requests.
This is getting fun.....
Rob
Much depends on how the account looks after your 2 years of star testing
Honestly my dream scope has been a 10 or 11" D&G but I'd have to build a 4th observatory because a 8" f/ 12 is the biggest I figure will fit in the 10' Ash.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Rob:
Just a suggestion...if you were to add 2 spring plungers to the finder holder, one
next to the retainer screw on the top rear, and one next to the top front screw, you could then use the 4 bottom screws to push the finder up against the plungers, adjusting the finder to align with the main scope. Once it is aligned, use the top screws to retain alignment. A quicker method would be to use the rubber band trick but the spring plungers would be a more permanent helper.
Interesting Steve....but I'm not getting my mind around that. Is it similar to the spring buttons found on Orion spotter mount rings?
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
BTW Robby....Who told you I wanted the trim on my scope celery green?
I do like the idea of the polished aluminium though
Good.....but I'm BIT behing the curve ball here.........
Am I supose to be under the impression that you...my CN internet friend....that you are truely interested in saving your rubles and laying them down on the barrel head....for this telescope?
If so what color do you want the hardware painted.....?
And if so should we come to an agreement of some kind?
Or.......Are we just having some internet fun......
I could keep going ahead and you could just accept what I do..or add you ownership requests.
This is getting fun.....
Rob
Much depends on how the account looks after your 2 years of star testing
Honestly my dream scope has been a 10 or 11" D&G but I'd have to build a 4th observatory because a 8" f/ 12 is the biggest I figure will fit in the 10' Ash.
Paint can cover a multitude of indecision......
We share the same Dream...however...I can't swing the 9k needed to acquire it. And that doesn't include cool custom spotter mounts......custom tube rings.....and an awesome internal electric focuser. I can...however..build it for just over 2.5K. with a savings that will jumpstart the build of the 18x18 OB needed for it.
I'll keep plugging away....and revealing the progress as I go....and we'll let that be the *stuff* that helps you along the decision trail......
I bet Berry doesn't provide a photo album of the construction of a customers D&G scope......
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3295
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yes, exactly my point. Makes adjustment much faster and easier.
--------------------
Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
yes, exactly my point. Makes adjustment much faster and easier.
I'll look into finding a source for them.....You don't have any suggestions do you?
Also...I was thinking..once the finders are set...they should always be aligned...I know this is the case on my 6"f/15 and with it's finders.
Thanks for the advice....it's simple and adds that *extra* nicety.... 
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 618
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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My, My how time flys Rob!! I've just came back from my trip in Switzerland after a week and a half and everything is changed over here .
The scope,aaa... I mean Enterprise , looks better and better. Superb color you got there for your spoter's support. It looks exactly like the one used by Zeiss on their instruments. How did you find it? Combined green with white or just found the color readily mixed?
--------------------
Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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Dr Morbius
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/06/07
Posts: 1721
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You know, after you finish it and you finally take a look through it and see what only a large refractor can show you - you might come to the realization that you could never sell it! 
--------------------
Meade ETX-125
NightFire 6" f/8 Refractor with Moonlite focuser
Meade 14" LX200 S/C
D&G 10" f/15 Refractor with Parallax Mount
Little Giant 11x70mm Binos
I'm afraid of dying, but I've learned to live with it. ......Steve Perry
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
yes, exactly my point. Makes adjustment much faster and easier.
I'll look into finding a source for them.....You don't have any suggestions do you?
Also...I was thinking..once the finders are set...they should always be aligned...I know this is the case on my 6"f/15 and with it's finders.
Thanks for the advice....it's simple and adds that *extra* nicety....
Rob
After rereading my own post...I had to slap myself......
I ain't buying no spring loaded adjusting screws....I'm gonna make them.
I will tip each top secure knob/bolt with a spring and contact tip.....This is an easy job.
The only true issue is that the spotter scope is quite heavy(made of stainless steel)...so the spring contact will need to be quite sturdy.
Thanks for the NEW idea....
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
My, My how time flys Rob!! I've just came back from my trip in Switzerland after a week and a half and everything is changed over here .
The scope,aaa... I mean Enterprise , looks better and better. Superb color you got there for your spoter's support. It looks exactly like the one used by Zeiss on their instruments. How did you find it? Combined green with white or just found the color readily mixed?
Yes indeed...the Zeiss at Griffith Park is this very color.(or close to it).
TAK's scopes are painted in a similar green.
I just found this color ar my local hardware store...it's called *Celery* Green.
I think it will look smashing up against the polished aluminum tube.
It will mimic the tube of my spotter which is polished stainless steel.
Next will be tracking down the 1.3" plate I'll need for the back plate and I'll get on that next.
Baffleing is next as well.
It's coming together....very slowly.
Gotta tackle some mount flexure issues as well...but that isn't going to be a problem.
Thanks for peeking in...glad you're back.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
You know, after you finish it and you finally take a look through it and see what only a large refractor can show you - you might come to the realization that you could never sell it!
I've wrestled with that realization already....but If I can sell this one...I can build another.....and so forth.
The trick will be replicating the electric focuser.....THAT will be a challenge.
My only concern is that I use common materials and reuse *STUFF* to build my scopes. They are unlike anything that is commercially built. To replicate my scope...a big scope company would have to charge astronomically.
I can get away with it...cuz I'm nobody... and I don't have employees to pay...and my scopes are what I *feel*..what I envision. That is why my spotter mounts are *sweeping* and spacey. Kinda mixing the bolted together antique look with a space age..Star Trek feal.
I feal a scope needs to encompass *style* as well as functionality. When you look at this finished scope....you're gonna tell yourself...*Man..I've never seen a scope like this before*....*So sleek...so futuristic*.
It will leave a lasting impression in your mind and heart.
That's my aim anyway. Who knows if I'll ever get there.
I can take the amount of time it will require to *Polish* the aluminum tube. It will all be done by hand...just like everything else.
This scope not only will be an extreme one of a kind..it is also a good test bed for fabricational technique....and scrounging skills....
Rob(thanks for commenting)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 618
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Quote:
I can get away with it...cuz I'm nobody... .
Rob, don't say that!
You are an artist like many other ATM men. Unlike the anssembly line like manufacturers, you create one of a kind wonders that are basically priceless. It's not just a brand name on a impersonal tube,fork mount whatever...it's you in every piece of your creations.
--------------------
Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
Edited by neo (03/05/09 01:56 PM)
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Eric P
sage
Reged: 04/04/05
Posts: 390
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Quote:
I can take the amount of time it will require to *Polish* the aluminum tube. It will all be done by hand...just like everything else.
Wouldn't the low emissivity of polished aluminum pose an issue with dew?
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3295
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Quote:
fabricational technique....and scrounging skills....
Scrounging? Want some help with that?
--------------------
Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
I can get away with it...cuz I'm nobody... .
Rob, don't say that!
You are an artist like many other ATM men. Unlike the anssembly line like manufacturers, you create one of a kind wonders that are basically priceless. It's not just a brand name on a impersonal tube,fork mount whatever...it's you in every piece of your creations.
I didn't mean to say that I am personally a no- body...but I have no name to build my reputation upon.(currently)
All I have is what I make and sell and then THAT will be my reputation. Currently no one knows me from Adam.
Some day I hope my scopes will be their own calling card for success.
We'll see. Right now..I'm just plugging along the best way I know how...and if someone wants to call what I create their own....then that is the greatest form of recognition and reputation.
Maybe some day...I will be able to offord a larger lathe....too
Thanks for your support and confidence.
Rob(scrap yard junky)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
I can take the amount of time it will require to *Polish* the aluminum tube. It will all be done by hand...just like everything else.
Wouldn't the low emissivity of polished aluminum pose an issue with dew?
Not any more then painted aluminum I would assume. Dew control can be gained by normal means I suppose.
I didn't give dew collection much thought. I wasn't aware it needed any. Good question though.
Maybe some other smart CNer can answer that one. I don't have an answer myself.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
fabricational technique....and scrounging skills....
Scrounging? Want some help with that?
Ooooh..cool . I see pillow blocks and....interesting..looks like they are using fiber spacers as the clutch plates. Lots of nifty goodies there.
Does that mount work? Is it currently being used?
Is it for sale?......
Rob(Nice)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3295
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Is it for sale?......
Funny you should ask....I'll PM ya.
--------------------
Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Well it has warmed up a bit and so I got to removing the dent in the 12" tube.
I first used an old scissor jack and I cut and made two hardwood bases/cap that will do the actual pressing against the tube.
I just simply *duct taped* them on the jack and slid it into the tube under the dent(I rolled it to be on top)
Here is a pic of the jack in place getting ready to press out the dent.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Here is a closer view of the process.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Circled dent now pressed out...
It took about 5 minutes.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Another angle of the pressed out dent.
It took more time making the tool to do this then it took to actually remove the dent. I failed to mention that the dent was about an inch deep and around 4" in diameter.
No more dent....
The area will be directy inside the aft tube ring...so any slight irregularities won't even be seen. Plus after I polish the tube...it will be invisible.
Now onto the baffles. I will be using extremely thin tin 12" wood stove pipe sleaves. They are perfect for the job.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3520
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Rob...Just Monday I went for my actual "roof canal" job. The third visit in two weeks will put on my new crown. After seeing you and that scissor jack job wellll....I won't even go there!! You did fine Rob.  Mike
--------------------
7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 8074
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Glad it was easy as 1, 2, 3 Rob. That was a real bummer when you first showed the dent.
--------------------
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Rob...Just Monday I went for my actual "roof canal" job. The third visit in two weeks will put on my new crown. After seeing you and that scissor jack job wellll....I won't even go there!! You did fine Rob. Mike
Root canal therapy can put some in the queezy seat...not to mention the fealing of coughing up the chunck of change it cost ya. I wish dentistry was cheaper.
Tube canal therapy(as in my case here) shows how dedication in ones vocation can still produce excellent results without incuring a second mortgage. No anesthesia was used.
The prep and creation of the *tools* was the biggest expense here..In time and material.
Thanks for noticing.
I talked to an engineer about reinforcing my GEM saddle and he said my design will be quite adequate...
Jeff B will be reinforcing his saddle as well....I'm sure.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Glad it was easy as 1, 2, 3 Rob. That was a real bummer when you first showed the dent.
Yeah...but I wrapped my brain around it and beat it.
Dent=0...Rob=1
After removing it originally...I moved the press/jack around inside and pressed the tube in many places in the area to equalize the stresses. I did spend another 20 minutes letting each press *rest*. Then I moved on and repeated the process about 1/2" away.
I'll pressure clean the inside before I paint it.
That will happen after all the baffles are prefit.
Of course that will happen after I polish the tube...cuz that process will be dirty and messy...and I'll have to roll the tube around on a wooden cradle I made to hold it during the process.
I'll use white rouge polishing compound and high speed buffing wheels. Lots of holes will need to be located and drilled first too.
As usual...its just one more thing on a list of hundreds of things.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 618
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Nice job Rob! 
How do you plan to polish the tube? It would be crazy to get a super polish like those inter cooler pipes, you know, from cars. But I guess you'd have a huge amount of work on such a monster like yours
So now that you got rid of the dent, what's next?
--------------------
Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Nice job Rob!
How do you plan to polish the tube? It would be crazy to get a super polish like those inter cooler pipes, you know, from cars. But I guess you'd have a huge amount of work on such a monster like yours
So now that you got rid of the dent, what's next?
Well...I'll build the baffle system...test fit it...then drill a bunch of holes in the tube(for spotter mounts counterweight system.
I hope to have the back plate being machined while all this is going on. That job is going to be expensive...cuz it has to be very custom to secure my focuser to.
It's all good.
I'll coat the polished tube in auto gloss.....to protect it. Possibly...It might polish out so good it won't need any covering.
We'll see.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
PrestonE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/29/05
Posts: 1170
Loc: Houston,Texas
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Rob looking very nice....sorry for not posting here more often...but I do look,
Just getting down to the wire for getting us to TSP
Very Best Regards,
Preston
--------------------
A few I enjoy,
and a few more in the works ;<)
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Rob looking very nice....sorry for not posting here more often...but I do look,
Just getting down to the wire for getting us to TSP
Very Best Regards,
Preston
I appreciate that you..just look in and check up on me. Your comments are *frosting*....
You have a deadline to meet...and I understand. Your scope is business...mine is just a hobby.
It is you who deserves all my respect.
Calculated scope building is a far cry from shooting from the hip as I do. My hat's off to you my friend.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
Sky Captain
Metal Whisperer
Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 7190
Loc: Issaquah, WA.
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Nice job on the dent removal Rob!!!
--------------------
Equipment Overload!
Kerry
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Nice job on the dent removal Rob!!!
I wish it had never gotten the scar.
I did what I could think of...without getting a block of wood stuck in the tube.
.090wl material is tough stuff. Just trying to push a *plug* down 6ft of tube would have been a challenge..let alone forcing it up gainst a 1" dent.
I picked up the steel reinforcing material I will use to built the bracing system for the aluminum star saddle.
A bit of design and welding and bolting will add needed strength.
I also picked up the materials for making the baffles.
And I am building a mounting that the focuser will slip into that will permit me to collimate, and or, remove the focuser from the backplate easily. Simple redesign and use of existing *stuff*.
I luv using common materials. And stuff you wouldn't even think of.
What do you suspect I can use a 12" 1/4" thick aluminum pressure pot for.....
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
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veebs2
special label
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 287
Loc: DeKalb, IL
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Quote:
What do you suspect I can use a 12" 1/4" thick aluminum pressure pot for.....
Ok Rob...that is funny!!
Your threads are my favorite to follow due to your sense of humor and the detail you provide! I love how your mind sees existing objects as parts to a telescope ! As someone who has no mechanical skills (there is a reason I am an accountant), I envy your ability to create your telescopes using exisitng objects. When I see a pot...all I see is a pot ! Keep up the great work!
--------------------
Paul
Zhumell 10" (My Mistress - name given by my wife)
Hyperions - 5mm, 13mm and 24mm
Stratus - 8mm and 17mm
Howie Glatter 2"-1 1/4" Holograpic w/ Barlow
Lumicon OIII Filter
Telrad
DeKalb, IL
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you suspect I can use a 12" 1/4" thick aluminum pressure pot for.....
Ok Rob...that is funny!!
Your threads are my favorite to follow due to your sense of humor and the detail you provide! I love how your mind sees existing objects as parts to a telescope ! As someone who has no mechanical skills (there is a reason I am an accountant), I envy your ability to create your telescopes using exisitng objects. When I see a pot...all I see is a pot ! Keep up the great work!
Thanks tons......I wish I kept a better record of my tinkerings though. But since many of my *creations* are fly by night inspired...I forget to document the *lightbulb* moment.
Without giving the pressure pot thing away....you can gather... since it's made from aluminum(tough aluminum)...it might be structural......
I'm typically a lazy goof...and if I can incorporate someone elses design into mine then I'm all over it.
I'm kinda like the *Borg*...I assimilate.
Those light baffles I'm making are actually wood stove exhaust pipe ceiling flanges. They are nearly the right diameter....and here's what's cool....you can get them with center holes in nearly every diameter range. And *cheep*...man..cheep.
So properly arranged down the tube length they will be *Perfect* baffles. And all I have to do is attach them to the baffle frame(Similar to most everyones elses) and paint them flat black.
Due to the 2" free space outside the 10" light cone...I can move exhausted thermal currents along thier way quite easily.
I need to get some serious lathe work done too....
Rob(what is that thing sticking up out of the ground over there......looks like..)
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8333
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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OK..I have an electrical question.
I can solder like a mad man....but don't contain the cynoptic conductivity to figure out how to put a speed controling potentiometer in the hand controller for the DC electric focuser on my scope.
I'm running the focuser motor with a 9 volt battery...and want to control its speed a bit better then what I have been.
What I need is a simple schematic of the electronics needed.
I already have the directional switch, the push button switch, and the battery.
What I need now is to place inline.. a pot(possibly with resisters soldered to it) to reduce the current to the drive motor of the focuser. I want it to reduce the speed...but not the torque (Is that possible?)
So I want to press a button to activate the focuser...and I want to turn the pot to slow/speed it up.....See
So........all you electronic wizards out there.....What can you help me with...and I'm sure it is extremely simple.
Rob
--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.
www.vimeo.com/6014031
|
neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 618
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Hi Rob!
You can use a simple potentiometer to control the voltage but from what I know it wouldn't be very efficient and precise. Again from what I've learned if you vary the voltage not the current, the torque should be conserved.
There are many tips of controllers, open or closed loops one more complicated then another, so I guess you could look over some ready made ones. Look at SurplusShed, there is a Kit for a small DC motor controller more efficient then a simple potentiometer. From what I recall it's about $20 with schematics and everything you need.
--------------------
Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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