paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Hi all I thought I would post a thread on how I made my 200mm F5.475 Carbon Fibre Newt. First of all I would like to say thank you to John Carruthers for all the help he gave me with the mirror, without his help I would never of finished it. The first image just shows the mandrel with 6 coats of release agent on it. I did split the mandrel so I could remove the cardboard tube in one piece but this didn’t work very well and the cardboard tube came out in many pieces.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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In this image I have coated the mandrel in Epoxy Resin and put on the first layer of C/F and wrapped it in peel ply.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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The next day I removed the PP
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Then I put on a 3mm layer of Coremat that I fully saturated with E/P first.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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These two images show a layer of C/F going over the Coremat, if you start of nice and straight that’s how you will finish up.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
Edited by paul11 (10/11/09 11:08 AM)
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Image 2
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3459
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Looking very good! What is Peel Ply???
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Then I applied one more layer of C/F and three more coats of E/P to make sure the C/F was well under the surface. Then it was outside to cut the surface down until it was even and finish it with 1200 wet n dry.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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When I was happy with the look of the C/F it was back into the workshop to cut the tube to length (1200mm). I set the depth on the Router, set the fence and ran it around the tube.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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And 2
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Then I applied a single coat of Blakes 2 component high gloss clear polyurethane varnish all I have to do now is to finish it off with a burnishing cream.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Then I made the lid for the tube, I used a piece of hardboard for the base and cardboard for the walls and put on a single layer of C/F and finished it the same as the tube. To remove the cardboard and hardboard from the C/F I just put it in a bucket of water for a few hours.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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lid
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Lid on tube
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Quote:
Looking very good! What is Peel Ply???
Hi Wes the peel ply is an extremely strong material that you can pull tight over the C/F to give a very even finish. It allows any excess glue to pass through it. The only thing is it gives a matt finish so I didn’t use it on the final layer of C/F I just let it dry on it’s own.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Now for the mirror cell, for this I laminated 3 layers of Coremat and 4 layers of C/F. I made this up between 2 pieces of 6mm glass.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Then I put some weight on it and left it overnight and then made a second one.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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With a simple jig the band saw cuts perfect circles every time.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Here’s a close up of the edge of the disc.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Here are the 2 discs, both 10mm thick and top disc on the left has the brass threaded inserts for the adjustment bolts.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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This is the bottom disc it is matt finish on this side and gloss on the other (outside).
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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1 more
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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with the 9 points and posts
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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with the mirror
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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mirror and outside posts
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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hole for fan
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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fan fitted
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 620
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Paul, this is gorgeous!
How heavy is the mirror cell?
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Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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I am now waiting for my spider to arrive from Protostar, that should be here this week. I also have a spare cardboard tube that I can set all this up before I drill any holes in the C/F tube,,,,Paul.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Hi Neo i can't give you the weight of the cell at the moment because i can't find my scales. I will try and let you know tomorrow, my best guess is it is approx 2lb.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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I’ve just weighed the mirror cell and it is exactly 2 lb.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 620
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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ok, so about 1kg. Thanks Paul, you are to kind 
Sorry to bother you more...but what kind of C/F did you use? I'm not very familiar with this material although I've learned that there are many types (twill, satin, plain ..wathever) used each for speciffic jobs.
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Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Hi Neo I used the 200g 2x2 Twill Weave, I did buy half a sqm of plain weave and rolled a very small tube as a test piece but the twill weave looks a lot better.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Images of the mirror 200mm x 25mm F5.475
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Another 1
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Last one
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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John Carruthers
Skiprat
Reged: 02/02/07
Posts: 2273
Loc: Kent, UK
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looking good Paul, you may have persuaded me to re-tube my 10" mirror in CF, (it seems to get heavier every year). Good to see you haven't done all that vacuum bagging/baking business, it may be necessary if you're building a plane but not for a simple low stress tube. Hope it encourages more atm use of this versatile material.
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Jc
ATM 10" F6.1, 1/25th wave spec (max wavefront error +/- 1/12.6 in zone 4 of 6, sodium light )
6" F7 spec
127mm F9.4 Refractor
10 x 50 bin
ETX80 (finder)
Canon 20D
PST
DSI 1
and a curious mind
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Ian Robinson
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/29/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Gateshead.NSW Nth Coast,Austra...
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Quote:
Image 2
Is the cloth applied dry, or is loaded with epoxy first ?
Also is there "tacky" epoxy on the tube when you applied the carbon fibre , presuming it was one layer a day and allowing the epoxy to cure between layers.
ie
1) paint epoxy onto tube
2) allow to dry to tacky feel .
3) add precut layer of cloth as smoothly and squarely as possible
4) paint in epoxy and roll out excess
5) leave to cure over night
6) repeat above steps above for each layer.
How did the carbon fibre cell shape up cf with a aluminium one (in holding mirror alignment) ?
Edited by Ian Robinson (10/16/09 08:18 AM)
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WahHK
sage
Reged: 02/24/06
Posts: 308
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Why don't you cut the upper circle of the mirror to a smaller one? This can help to avoid it contact with the tube and let you adjust the collimation easier.
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http://wahwah.dyndns.org:8080/gallery/main.php
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Luigi
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 4947
Loc: MA
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The arrangement of the 9 pads supporting the mirror looks unusual. What methodology did you use to work it out, equal areas, PLOP, something else ? Are the triangle supporting the pads free to wobble and distribute the load among the three pads? For an 8" full thickness mirror, the cell isn't too critical anyway. Simply mounting it in place with three big blobs of silicone can work well.
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17.5" f/5 Dob. IM-715 MCT. 120ED. Lunt 60mm Ha.
Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell bins
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Quote:
looking good Paul, you may have persuaded me to re-tube my 10" mirror in CF, (it seems to get heavier every year). Good to see you haven't done all that vacuum bagging/baking business, it may be necessary if you're building a plane but not for a simple low stress tube. Hope it encourages more atm use of this versatile material.
Hi John I hope it does encourage a few more people to have a go at a C/F tube, they really are very easy to make.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Quote:
Quote:
Image 2
Is the cloth applied dry, or is loaded with epoxy first ?
Also is there "tacky" epoxy on the tube when you applied the carbon fibre , presuming it was one layer a day and allowing the epoxy to cure between layers.
ie
1) paint epoxy onto tube
2) allow to dry to tacky feel .
3) add precut layer of cloth as smoothly and squarely as possible
4) paint in epoxy and roll out excess
5) leave to cure over night
6) repeat above steps above for each layer.
How did the carbon fibre cell shape up cf with a aluminium one (in holding mirror alignment) ?
Hi Ian I put a coat of E/P on to the mandrel and then put the dry C/F on it straight away. You can put a layer on each day or you can put them on all in one day.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Quote:
The arrangement of the 9 pads supporting the mirror looks unusual. What methodology did you use to work it out, equal areas, PLOP, something else ? Are the triangle supporting the pads free to wobble and distribute the load among the three pads? For an 8" full thickness mirror, the cell isn't too critical anyway. Simply mounting it in place with three big blobs of silicone can work well.
The triangles were worked out using plop and they are free to wobble.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Quote:
Why don't you cut the upper circle of the mirror to a smaller one? This can help to avoid it contact with the tube and let you adjust the collimation easier.
That’s a good point, I do have about 1mm clearance. I don’t know if it is enough, if it needs to be a bit smaller I can easily reduce it on the band saw.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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And my spider has still not arrived yet,,,,Paul.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Ready for a test run
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Back of mirror cell
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Focuser
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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It's all ready now just need some clear sky
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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and one more
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 620
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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WOW!! I think I'm in love!   
It's simply BEAUTIFUL!
Congrats...down the hat. You have my respect for such a craftsmanship!
--------------------
Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Thanks Neo, here is the first image,seeing was bad there was a mist over the sky and it was taken when the mirror was in the cardboard tube. My collimation tool broke so I had to guess the collimation. The mirror is in the C/F tube now but I have still got to flock the tube and get a new collimation tool and then I can give it a real test,,,,,Paul.
Edited by paul11 (11/02/09 06:53 PM)
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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A few more images,after these were taken i removed the mirror etc and sprayed the inside of the tube matt black,,,,Paul.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Five
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Six
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Seven
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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neo
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/12/08
Posts: 620
Loc: Iasi, Romania
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Now this is gorgeous!!
You know...I've saved your entire post here on CN with your project for guidance in the future.
Thanks for sharing your work!
Can't wait to see some more pics, the true "first light" . 
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Russian 15x50 binos
Home made 8" f/5 Newton on eq mount
Home made 70mm f/6 (Rodenstock Rotelar lens) Apo refractor
www.astronomy.ro
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Thanks Neo I’m glad you enjoyed the post, I did manage to collimate the scope a little better. This is a 15 sec image, 100% crop at the edge of the frame,,,,,,Paul.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
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Wow! I love the carbon fiber. Does it cool about the same as metal? Or is there a advantage/disadvantage to it?
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Hi Ron the main reason I made a C/F tube was it was easier for me to make than metal or aluminium and as far as I know it is one of the most stable materials to use for a telescope tube,,,Paul.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Hi Ron the main reason I made a C/F tube was it was easier for me to make than metal or aluminium and as far as I know it is one of the most stable materials to use for a telescope tube,,,Paul.
It must be.... A lot of high-end optics use it. I'm excited for you! Best of luck with your new scope. Keep us updated on how it performs through the seasons!
P.S. Many have called me "Ron" here  , BUT, my name is actually Kipp.... Ron Burgundy is Will Farrel's character in one of my favorite movies, Anchorman. I think I'll add "Kipp G." to my signature 
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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zantespear
member
Reged: 09/07/06
Posts: 41
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Great scope!!! Thanks for posting. I need to ask some questions though
1. How do you drill holes in screw diameter?
You used some sort of foam between 2 lawyers of CF (coremat).
2. Exactly what is purpose of using coremat?
3. Is this thing more expensive than 2 or 3 layers of CF?
Thanks in advance
--------------------
Spyros Milonas
Athens-Zakynthos
Greece.
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MikeS
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 983
Loc: Quakertown Pennsylvania
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That is great looking. What is the weight of the C/F ota?
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Mike Snisky
8" F5 Newtonian/Moonlite CR2
Orion Sirius EQ-G Mount
Orion 100mm F6 Achro on SVP w Intelliscope
Orion 100mm ED on LXD55 Mount
Denkmeier Standards
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Quote:
Great scope!!! Thanks for posting. I need to ask some questions though
1. How do you drill holes in screw diameter?
You used some sort of foam between 2 lawyers of CF (coremat).
2. Exactly what is purpose of using coremat?
3. Is this thing more expensive than 2 or 3 layers of CF?
Thanks in advance
I’m not sure what you mean by your 1st question but I can tell you that it is very easy to drill the C/F tube and mirror cell with an HSS drill bit. The coremat is £5sqm and the C/F is £25sqm but the reason for the coremat is not to save money it is to add strength. http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/category/product/tabid/61/productid/547/sename/3-mm-coremat-xm/default.aspx
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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paul11
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Essex UK.
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Quote:
That is great looking. What is the weight of the C/F ota?
The tube weighs 7lb and that’s because I have way way over engineered it, if I made another one this size I would use 1mm coremat and then the tube would have weighed approx 3lb.
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LX90-10" Canon 350D Toucam 840K Barn-door tracker
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zantespear
member
Reged: 09/07/06
Posts: 41
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Thanks Paul You answered the question even though my English don t work from time to time
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Spyros Milonas
Athens-Zakynthos
Greece.
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polaraligned
sage
Reged: 12/26/08
Posts: 230
Loc: P. R. of New Jersey
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Nice job!!
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