plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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5" F12 Istar Refractor project
#4572197 - 05/09/11 08:42 PM Attachment (191 downloads)
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This thread will detail the making of a 5" f12 refractor using an Istar 127mm F12 R30 lens. The tube will be made from marine plywood in an octagonal section with ply ring frames acting as baffles.
I ordered the lens in early January this year and it arrived about 3 weeks ago. I have been away and only opened the package on Sunday evening. It was very well packed and all appears to be in order. My emails with Ales from Istar have all been responded to promptly and I have been very impressed with their service. I am expecting the lens to be very good value for the price and to end up with a great telescope.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4572200 - 05/09/11 08:43 PM Attachment (146 downloads)
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Lens from the front.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4572206 - 05/09/11 08:45 PM Attachment (95 downloads)
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Lens from the back.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4572209 - 05/09/11 08:47 PM Attachment (115 downloads)
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Image showing coatings. I will follow up with more as time allows.
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574715 - 05/11/11 07:24 AM Attachment (106 downloads)
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I recommend the best quality plywood you can afford. Marine quality ply such as used in kayaks is ideal. I am using 4mm ocoume here. info about ocoume marine ply .
Mark out 8 parallel strips 1300mm x 62.5mm. This will create an octagonal section approx 150mm across the flats.
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574717 - 05/11/11 07:26 AM Attachment (78 downloads)
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Number each piece before cutting.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574719 - 05/11/11 07:28 AM Attachment (100 downloads)
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I like to use a Japanese pull saw for thin ply. It cuts fast, straight and accurate and is very thin kerf. It will follow a gentle curve if necesary.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574722 - 05/11/11 07:29 AM Attachment (84 downloads)
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Stack the 8 pieces in order.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574726 - 05/11/11 07:31 AM Attachment (91 downloads)
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Stop for a drink and a snack Dad!
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574731 - 05/11/11 07:34 AM Attachment (94 downloads)
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Clamp the 8 pieces together and smooth the edges with a block plane and sandpaper.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574736 - 05/11/11 07:37 AM Attachment (109 downloads)
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Set a bevel guage to 67.5 degrees, (90 - 45/2). Clamp the pieces together at 67.5 degrees.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574738 - 05/11/11 07:39 AM Attachment (105 downloads)
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Plane and sand the edges so that each edge is equally bevelled.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574740 - 05/11/11 07:42 AM Attachment (85 downloads)
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Remove the clamps and turn over the bundle and set the same angle again for the opposite edge. Repeat the planing and sanding so that you have 8 pieces each with a bevel on the two long edges.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574742 - 05/11/11 07:43 AM Attachment (125 downloads)
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Now you can do a trial fit using tape to see how it looks.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574745 - 05/11/11 07:49 AM
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The next stage is to make the baffles which will also act as frames to stiffen the structure. In the meantime here is a link to a 6" f15 made a few years ago using the same technique. plywood 6 inch. Also another link to an 8 inch reflector using thin ply. Toshimi Taki 8 inch reflector
To be continued.
Andy
Edited by plyscope (05/11/11 08:01 AM)
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eric_zeiner
Phoenix's Dad
   
Reged: 12/09/06
Loc: Georgia USA 34 31'57.18N 83 53...
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574755 - 05/11/11 07:57 AM
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Looks great!
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tim53
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/17/04
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4574764 - 05/11/11 08:05 AM
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Andy:
Very neat! I never even thought about using hand tools! I guess it always seemed like it would take too long. But I can see that it might be easier to control the results, such that one might not need to use a jointer to true up the sides to make sure the edges are straight. (In essence, that's what you're doing when you plane the edges, I suppose).
I especially like the idea of minimizing the waste at the cuts!
-Tim.
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mercedes_sl1970
sage
   
Reged: 12/02/05
Loc: Canberra, Oz
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: tim53]
#4574874 - 05/11/11 09:25 AM
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Hi Andy
Thanks for this very informative post. I've been intrigued by your method (and other scope). You make it seem so simple! Look forward to seeing more.
Andrew
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: mercedes_sl1970]
#4575799 - 05/11/11 05:36 PM
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Hi Guys
Thanks for the comments. It is simple and not unlike making a model aeroplane. I encourage everyone to have a go!
Andy
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4576423 - 05/11/11 11:16 PM
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Every model plane I ever made crashed!
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magic612
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/30/08
Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4577938 - 05/12/11 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Hi Guys
Thanks for the comments. It is simple and not unlike making a model aeroplane. I encourage everyone to have a go!
Andy
Hmmm... I think I've used differing methods for each:
Plywood formers, balsa stringers and basswood spars / balsa ribs, vs.

24 oak slats glued together by running glue down each joint and rolling it up:

In all seriousness, I like what you're doing, and very much look forward to watching your project progress. I'm likely to build an octagonal telescope pier sometime in the near future; this is good to see how other people build things so I can add to my knowledge.
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GlenM
Vendor - Lyra Optic
Reged: 05/20/07
Loc: Lancashire England
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4579179 - 05/13/11 11:19 AM
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Just come back from holiday myself.
It's nice to see another beautiful scope in the making.
It was interesting to note that Ales now marks his lens/cell with the R30 motif. I suppose with the R75's coming along this is the way to go.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: GlenM]
#4581813 - 05/14/11 05:30 PM Attachment (73 downloads)
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Nice plane Magic612. I like the strip planked ota too.
Hi Glen, I am still waiting for the 5" D&G, it could arrive next week.
Now to help making the baffles all the same size it helps to have a template. A thin metal template is easy to work and will show markings clearly.
Earlier I mentioned the ply panels marked out as 62.5mm x 1300mm. This is a nominal size and after planing and sanding the width of each panel has been reduced to 60mm or so. Carefully measure the inside width of a panel and mark out an octagon on the sheet metal with this figure in mind.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581816 - 05/14/11 05:31 PM Attachment (55 downloads)
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Start with a square. Mark the centre.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581817 - 05/14/11 05:33 PM Attachment (60 downloads)
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Mark out a circle, it will help to get the sides of the octagon equally spaced.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581827 - 05/14/11 05:35 PM Attachment (58 downloads)
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Mark out the octagon.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581828 - 05/14/11 05:37 PM Attachment (71 downloads)
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Sorry about the photo quality. After marking out is completed use the snips and a file to trim the metal to the lines as accuarately as you can.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581830 - 05/14/11 05:39 PM Attachment (59 downloads)
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Cut out some ply squares. Thes are nominal size of 140mm. I will be spacing the baffles 200mm apart so 6 pieces are needed.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581835 - 05/14/11 05:41 PM Attachment (64 downloads)
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Bolt the squares and the template together. Keep the bolt holes close to the centre, the centre of each baffle will be discarded later.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581836 - 05/14/11 05:43 PM Attachment (56 downloads)
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Cut and sand the squares to the same dimensions as the template.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581853 - 05/14/11 05:51 PM Attachment (77 downloads)
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I forgot to show this one of trial fitting the template to the tube. Lousy photo but you get the idea. Take your time to get the template right and it makes the baffles easier.
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daniel_h
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/08/08
Loc: VIC, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4581910 - 05/14/11 06:34 PM
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Terrific work Andy, where did you getbthe saw to cut he ply?
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: daniel_h]
#4582043 - 05/14/11 08:09 PM
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Hi Daniel
Carbatec has them
Japanese pull saw
Andy
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GlenM
Vendor - Lyra Optic
Reged: 05/20/07
Loc: Lancashire England
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4582801 - 05/15/11 08:48 AM
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Excellent thread Andy.
STILL waiting for your D&G 
It must be close on 18 month now?
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: GlenM]
#4583751 - 05/15/11 06:54 PM
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Yes, over 19 months now.
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4584070 - 05/15/11 09:58 PM Attachment (55 downloads)
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Before removing the bolts from the baffle/template stack, drill a small hole (1/16" or 1.5mm approx.) through the centre of everything.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4584077 - 05/15/11 10:03 PM Attachment (63 downloads)
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The next step is to make the aperture holes in the baffles to the right sizes. In this photo you can see how I derive the baffle apertures graphically. The drawing is full scale on the vertical axis but 1/6th scale on the horizontal axis. You can make your own drawing depending on your lens specification. I have used 42mm for the field stop diameter as this is large enough for most 2" eyepieces. If you only plan to use 1.25" eyepieces then you could use 25mm or 27mm for your field stop diameter.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4584575 - 05/16/11 08:30 AM Attachment (56 downloads)
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This is the same drawing with the baffles numbered this time.
The field stop is 42mm. The next one marked as 56mm is the end of the telescope tube where the focuser will be mounted. The actual aperture here will be more than 56mm to allow the focuser drawtube to pass through.
Baffle 1 is 67mm, baffle 2 is 78mm, baffle 3 is 89mm, baffle 4 is 100mm, baffle 5 is 111mm, and baffle 6 is 123mm.
Andy
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Joe Cepleur
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/18/10
Loc: Dark North Woods
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4584951 - 05/16/11 12:20 PM
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This is truly an impressive thread. I had come to the ATM forum to learn how to build an entire scope for an antique 4" cemented triplet, and found this immediately. Don't know that I have the time, tools, or skills to build this way just now, but it's an amazing process, presented with absolute clarity. I know I could learn to do this and will watch this thread eagerly. Thank you.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Joe Cepleur]
#4585568 - 05/16/11 06:31 PM
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No problem Joe. I have made a couple of scopes like this before and others have asked me for more details so this time I wanted to show it all step by step. I know plywood scopes are not for everyone however it is an option for those that prefer to work in wood or do not have aluminium tubing available locally. I wish you all the best with your antique 4" project, it sounds interesting.
Andy
Edited by plyscope (05/16/11 06:34 PM)
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4585972 - 05/16/11 10:55 PM
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Magnificent!
Salutations from the top end :-)
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4586035 - 05/16/11 11:37 PM
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Thanks Doc
I'm still dreaming of an 8" one day!
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4586268 - 05/17/11 05:13 AM Attachment (56 downloads)
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Carefully mark the circles on the baffles according to the plan. Use a compass scribe if you have one or else just a pencil compass. Rough cut the circles with a jig saw or coping saw.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4586271 - 05/17/11 05:14 AM Attachment (56 downloads)
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Finish to the line with a sanding wheel in a drill.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4586272 - 05/17/11 05:15 AM Attachment (61 downloads)
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All the baffles finished.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4587960 - 05/18/11 01:07 AM Attachment (52 downloads)
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Ok now we go back to the tube. Remove all the tape that was on the tube as it doesn't pay to leave masking tape on too long, it just goes all sticky and gooey. Carefully re-do the tape on the outside.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4587964 - 05/18/11 01:10 AM Attachment (50 downloads)
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Put a strip of tape along each seam. This will assist in holding it all together and prevent glue getting on the outside faces (important if you intend to varnish the tube, not so important if you want to paint it).
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4587965 - 05/18/11 01:11 AM Attachment (54 downloads)
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Turn the whole lot over so the tube inside is facing up. You will see the vee channels formed by the bevels.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4587968 - 05/18/11 01:16 AM Attachment (49 downloads)
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Mark perpendicular lines at 200mm intervals plus the last one at 60mm.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4587969 - 05/18/11 01:17 AM Attachment (56 downloads)
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Using a straight stick of wood and some small offcuts make a jig with cross pieces nailed at 200mm intervals. This will be used to brace the baffles while the glue dries.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4587970 - 05/18/11 01:20 AM Attachment (56 downloads)
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Glue the number 6 baffle in position (on one side only) on one of the middle planks. You can see how I've used a stick and a weight to clamp it and check that it is square. The baffle should be on the side of the line away from the lens end.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4587971 - 05/18/11 01:24 AM Attachment (51 downloads)
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Do the same with the number 1 baffle. Then attach the stick with the crosspieces using small spring clamps. Then the remaining baffles can be glued and positioned in place.
I am using plain PVA white glue. It is plenty strong enough and safe and easy to work with. Leave this to dry before the next step.
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Sean Cunneen
Let Me Think
   
Reged: 08/01/07
Loc: Blue Island Illinois
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4588251 - 05/18/11 08:56 AM
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Fantastic! This thread reads like a cliff-hanger for builder-geeks! Can't wait to see more...
Are you going to build the mount as well?
Sean
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Sean Cunneen]
#4588281 - 05/18/11 09:20 AM
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Hi Sean
Eventually I'll probably make a Berry mount for it. My original plan was to make a 5" f15 D&G along the lines of Ron Ravnebergs 4.5" f15 Fecker on a Berry mount (Ron Ravneberg Memorial scope gallery ). I ordered the D&G lens back in September 2009 and have been waiting for it ever since.
In the meantime I got the itch to make something and ordered the Istar lens in January this year. It will be fun to compare the two scopes one day. My latest information from D&G is that the lens will ship this month.
I have a Vixen GPD2 mount that I could use initially though I think the Istar 5" f12 will be really too much for it. It might suffice for first light while I make the Berry mount. 
Andy
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magic612
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/30/08
Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Sean Cunneen]
#4588439 - 05/18/11 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Fantastic! This thread reads like a cliff-hanger for builder-geeks! Can't wait to see more...
I agree with that! 
I've got a 6" f/11 mirror for which I need to build a tube, and have been thinking about the best way to go about it for over a year now. I'm thinking an 8 sided tube just might be the ticket (just need to figure out to rotate the tube, but that shouldn't be too hard).
Definitely appreciate all the great pictures and information in this thread.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: magic612]
#4589928 - 05/19/11 03:21 AM Attachment (43 downloads)
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Hi Magic612
Did you see the link to Toshimi Taki's 8"f6 dob? I think he used a 12 sided tube but the principal is there. I think Tim53 made rotating rings for a 9 sided reflector.
I have made 6 sided wooden piers using 1/2" ply.
Once the glue is dry remove the jig stick and clamps.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4589935 - 05/19/11 03:29 AM Attachment (46 downloads)
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The idea now is to glue up the tube panels but only partially. You want to be able to lift off one half of the tube to paint the inside before final gluing later.
We will run a bead of glue down all of the vee channels formed by the bevels. All except for the middle one and also no glue on the outer two bevel edges. We also must glue only one half of each baffle. To prevent glue going on the other half of the baffles at this stage it is necesary to put non-stick baking paper over these halfs. Use little bits of tape to hold the baking paper in place.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4589936 - 05/19/11 03:30 AM Attachment (50 downloads)
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Another picture
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4589965 - 05/19/11 04:51 AM Attachment (37 downloads)
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Put a bead of glue in the vees but don't squeeze the glue bottle too hard or it might burst and then you will have to spread the glue with a putty knife!
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4589967 - 05/19/11 04:53 AM Attachment (46 downloads)
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Glue the vee's except for the middle one and put a little glue on the edges of the baffles but only half of each one as mentioned before.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4589970 - 05/19/11 04:55 AM Attachment (61 downloads)
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Roll it up and tape it securely until the glue dries.
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4590002 - 05/19/11 05:49 AM
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OOOH!It's starting to look like a telescope!
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Don Allen
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/07/05
Loc: Charleston, SC
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: watcher]
#4591469 - 05/19/11 09:14 PM
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I can't wait until tomorrow...wait a minute... it already is tomorrow down under...ok I can't wait until later today to see more of this project.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Don Allen]
#4591510 - 05/19/11 09:39 PM Attachment (54 downloads)
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Okay it is tomorrow here.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4591517 - 05/19/11 09:41 PM Attachment (50 downloads)
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Peel off all the tape and bit's of paper. It is now ready for sealing inside and painting flat black. Also time to start making the end pieces for the focuser and lens cell.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4601101 - 05/24/11 10:00 PM Attachment (53 downloads)
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I sealed the inside surfaces with bondcrete. This is a pva sealing compound that is diluted with water and applied with a brush. Then two coats of flat black poster paint.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4601108 - 05/24/11 10:04 PM Attachment (47 downloads)
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The tube is ready to be glued together now and I've started making the parts for the lens countercell. I am using 12mm marine ply but if you bought a sheet of 4mm just for the telescope then you could laminate 3 layers together to get the 12mm.
The two octagons are 178mm across the flats. One will house the lens. The other will fit around the tube.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4601116 - 05/24/11 10:07 PM Attachment (46 downloads)
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The hole is cut out with a jigsaw and smoothed to size with the sanding wheel in a drill as for the baffles. This hole is 148mm diameter for the rear part of the cell to be recessed.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4601268 - 05/24/11 11:19 PM Attachment (44 downloads)
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Before gluing the tube closed put tape along the glue line edges to protect the bare wood on the outer surface from contact with glue. This is only important if you plan to varnish the tube as it will save clean up and make sanding and varnishing quicker.
Then go ahead and glue the two pieces together. Use lots of tape around the whole thing to clamp it as before.
Once the glue is dried you will see how strong and light the tube is. There may be a little filling and sanding required on some of the glue lines later but there should be no big gaps. The ends will be trimmed shorter once we have the countercell and focuser adaptor ready.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4601269 - 05/24/11 11:20 PM Attachment (54 downloads)
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Looking down the end.
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Jeff B
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 12/30/06
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4601750 - 05/25/11 09:10 AM
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This is a really cool thread. Thanks!
Jeff
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Jeff B]
#4603907 - 05/26/11 09:40 AM Attachment (40 downloads)
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You're welcome Jeff. I like your 6" f10.
Cut out the octagon slightly under size.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4603912 - 05/26/11 09:42 AM Attachment (38 downloads)
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Then carefully file, sand and work it so that the tube will just fit snugly.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4603915 - 05/26/11 09:44 AM Attachment (48 downloads)
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Cut out the two pieces and shape them roughly before screwing them together and then final shaping of the outside edges.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4603918 - 05/26/11 09:46 AM Attachment (36 downloads)
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Remove the screws and glue the pieces, then screw them back together for the glue to dry.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4603923 - 05/26/11 09:48 AM Attachment (48 downloads)
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Like so.
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Joe Cepleur
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/18/10
Loc: Dark North Woods
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4603942 - 05/26/11 09:57 AM
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I am quitting my life to become a boat builder. The fringe benefits are just irresistible. Are you hiring apprentices? Can you help with the visa?
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Joe Cepleur]
#4604808 - 05/26/11 06:34 PM
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One huge advantage with working in wood for the OTA is the massive weight saving. Along with thermal advantages I am puzzled why Aluminium became the gold standard?
Your work is an inspiration Andy!
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Joe Cepleur]
#4605298 - 05/27/11 12:56 AM
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Joe you don't need to quit anything, just do it as a hobby, boat building is fun too but telescopes are much quicker and easier. 
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4605303 - 05/27/11 01:03 AM
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Steve
I do hope that I can inspire others to try a scope project like this. It might look complicated and difficult but when you break it down into lot's of small steps it is really not too hard.
Wood can certainly be lighter than metal tubes depending on how it is done. I am not sure about thermal advantages. I would try to use aluminium tube if I could get it in appropriate sizes. The only way for me to get it in Perth is to order it from D&G or Parallax Instruments and the shipping is a killer. Istar tubing is also available now but again the shipping from Europe to Australia would be expensive. How much was your Perseus ota shipping charge if you don't mind me asking?
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605305 - 05/27/11 01:05 AM Attachment (44 downloads)
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Here you can see another octagonal 12mm ply piece made to fit inside the tube at the focuser end. It will be covered with feature wood on the finished scope. The hole has to be big enough to allow the focuser draw tube to pass through.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605307 - 05/27/11 01:08 AM Attachment (47 downloads)
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Here you see how the lens cell is partially recessed into the wooden countercell.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605311 - 05/27/11 01:11 AM Attachment (46 downloads)
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The cell flange fits flush to the countercell. I will use stainless wood screws to hold it on and shims for collimation rather than the push/pull arrangement. The push/pull arrangement is good if you have a metal countcell.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605319 - 05/27/11 01:15 AM Attachment (48 downloads)
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I did a temporary set-up just to confirm the focal length before final trimming of the tube length. The focal length is very close to the stated 1500mm. With a 40mm eyepiece (38x) I was able to get a focus on the moon in daylight resting the ota on a couple of cushions. Shaky but a good check before cutting the tube.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605321 - 05/27/11 01:19 AM Attachment (54 downloads)
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For practical purposes I am calling the focal length 1500mm as measured from the rear face of the lens cell flange (same as front face of countercell) to the focal plane.
Here you see the temporary focuser mounting. The focuser is a GSO 2 speed with approx. 85mm travel.
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605476 - 05/27/11 05:44 AM
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"How much was your Perseus ota shipping charge if you don't mind me asking?"
Wasn't cheap. I think $350- ish
I was going to build my 8" along the same lines using aluminium tube. The problem is that the tube is unavailable in Australia as you say but also it is heavy.
My 8" F6 weighs in at 11kg but in Aluminium would weigh 19kg. This makes a huge difference on mounting and all round usability. As it is, my 6" F10 weighs 2kg more than my 8" OTA of plywood.
PS: is that a SCT focuser you are using?
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4605612 - 05/27/11 08:31 AM Attachment (41 downloads)
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The focuser is a standard GSO refractor focuser without the tube adapter. I made my own tube adapter from brass.
My 6" f15 made with 4mm ply came out at around 14kg. I will try and give an accurate weight figure for this 5" f12 when it is all done.
After the trial run I decided to cut the tube ends. From the lens end the tube was cut back about 12mm. Measuring from the first baffle the distance is now 48mm.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605617 - 05/27/11 08:34 AM Attachment (38 downloads)
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From the focuser end the distance to the baffle is about 175mm. At this stage the tube measures 1230mm without the countercell attached and 1242mm with it attached.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605619 - 05/27/11 08:36 AM Attachment (40 downloads)
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Now the countercell and focuser insert piece are glued on.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4605623 - 05/27/11 08:39 AM Attachment (47 downloads)
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Cutting out 8 pieces of 4mm ply for the dewshield. These are nominal size of 80mm x 300mm. They will be trimmed as necesary for a snug fit on the countercell once bevelled and glued into an octagon. There will be two ring frames.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4607165 - 05/28/11 05:30 AM Attachment (41 downloads)
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Gluing up the dewshield.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4607168 - 05/28/11 05:32 AM Attachment (44 downloads)
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Gluing up some hardwood pieces for the focuser end. This will cover up the end grain of the tube and give a more pleasing appearance when varnished. This is made from 40mm x 8mm section.
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astroneil
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 07/28/09
Loc: res publica caledoniae
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4607203 - 05/28/11 06:53 AM
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Andy,
This is a magnificent thread and I've enjoyed each and every post.
Looking forward to your first light report!
Best wishes,
Neil.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: astroneil]
#4607213 - 05/28/11 07:05 AM Attachment (49 downloads)
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Thank you Neil
I am not a very experienced observer but I will do my best to test and compare the scope with my other ones.
In the past I have varnished my wooden scopes but I am considering painting this one just to be different and because I have some nice red enamel left over from my last boat project.
This picture shows a 6" f15 and a 90mm f16.7 side by side.
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4607378 - 05/28/11 09:48 AM Attachment (45 downloads)
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What do you think everyone? Red like a row boat or varnished?
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mercedes_sl1970
sage
   
Reged: 12/02/05
Loc: Canberra, Oz
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4607397 - 05/28/11 10:02 AM
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Andy - I think you need to change your day job to fulltime boat/scope builder! Colour choice - the red looks good, but then you hide that beautiful grain... But then the red looks good... Perhaps flip a coin?
This is a terrific thread, by the way.
Andrew
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: mercedes_sl1970]
#4608094 - 05/28/11 06:29 PM
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I vote for varnish!
PS does your focuser have any collimation adjustment or is it that at this focal length it is not a problem?
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4608515 - 05/29/11 12:15 AM
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The focuser doesn't have collimation adjustment but you can just shim it to get it right.
I am now thinking I might paint this one and varnish the next one (5" f15 D&G). Compromise solution!
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4608685 - 05/29/11 03:31 AM
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I like long red scopes! I think red would look awesome on yours with the counter cell and end plate varnished.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: watcher]
#4610379 - 05/30/11 02:49 AM Attachment (46 downloads)
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Thanks Joe
After thinking about it some more I will go for the red paint only. There will be varnish on the tube rings and it will simplify things a little just to have paint only.
Here is the feature wood being glued on. It serves to close off end grain and toughen up the end of the scope and also add contrast if varnished.
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catboat
sage
   
Reged: 12/01/09
Loc: Maine
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4611491 - 05/30/11 05:08 PM
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Sweet looking boat! (Nice scope too.) I enjoyed your stacked-edge beveling technique. I'll have to send you a pic of "Plan B" (Bolger Nymph) when I get her finished -- the write-up said one weekend's work (hah!).
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: catboat]
#4613931 - 05/31/11 10:23 PM Attachment (57 downloads)
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The red rowboat took me over 4 years for (70-100 hours expected build time)! I got side tracked with moving house and the birth of our two kids. Still got there in the end. 
Starting on the tube rings with 19mm (3/4")ply.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4613936 - 05/31/11 10:24 PM Attachment (54 downloads)
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Two coats of primer after some filling and sanding.
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DanWray
member
Reged: 10/11/06
Loc: Denver, CO, USA
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4615049 - 06/01/11 02:06 PM
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Andy,
There must be some suppliers of irrigation tubing in Australia like Hastings in the US.
Dan
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: DanWray]
#4617416 - 06/02/11 08:52 PM Attachment (47 downloads)
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I've tried doing a search online but it seems most of the pipe in Australia is poly not aluminium. Aluminium tubing in large sizes can be ordered but it is expensive and not generally available in short lengths.
Here is the red paint, two coats brushed on. This is a marine type alkyd enamel, 'bordeaux red". I probably should have thinned it a little and done 3 or 4 coats but it will do for now.
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s800
member
Reged: 03/19/08
Loc: Wisconsin
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4617435 - 06/02/11 09:07 PM
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If the photo looks like it does "in the flesh" - that's a great color.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: s800]
#4617576 - 06/02/11 10:33 PM Attachment (45 downloads)
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If anything it is a bit darker in the flesh. I guess the boat photo shows it more like the eye.
I am starting to cut out the parts for a Berry mount. I can use one of my existing piers in the short term, until eventually making a tripod.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4617921 - 06/03/11 06:00 AM Attachment (43 downloads)
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This part is more or less the same as described in Richard Berry's book Build Your own Telescope. A simple and effective mount for a refractor. You can use trunnions made of wood or metal. I have made wooden discs before foranother scope but for this one I have some aluminium rings cut from an old oil filter housing.
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eric_zeiner
Phoenix's Dad
   
Reged: 12/09/06
Loc: Georgia USA 34 31'57.18N 83 53...
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4617926 - 06/03/11 06:08 AM
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Nice work as always Andy!
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: eric_zeiner]
#4619856 - 06/04/11 08:12 AM Attachment (53 downloads)
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Thanks Eric
Back to the telescope and I have now fitted the lens, finder and focuser. To check the focuser alignment to the optical axis it is handy to have a collimation laser. You need a paper circle over the lens to show the centre of the lens. Then with the laser inserted into the focuser you can see how close the alignment is.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619859 - 06/04/11 08:14 AM Attachment (42 downloads)
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In the photo above you should be able to just see the faint red dot from the laser just above the centre point. The red dot should be on the centre. The focuser needs to be shimmed to bring it into line. This photo shows the laser inserted into the focuser straight through.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619861 - 06/04/11 08:19 AM Attachment (47 downloads)
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Here you see my home made brass tube adapter with the focuser removed.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619863 - 06/04/11 08:20 AM Attachment (36 downloads)
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To shim it I simply used layers of sellotape (scotchtape?) and trial and error.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619865 - 06/04/11 08:22 AM Attachment (46 downloads)
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Eventually I managed to get the red dot on centre.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619867 - 06/04/11 08:24 AM Attachment (42 downloads)
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At this point it is a good idea to rack the focuser in and out and also try rotating the laser in the focuser to ensure that the red dot stays centred or at least very close under all conditions.
Next is collimation of the lens. This is done in a similar way using a cheshire eyepiece instead of the laser. The lens must be covered. A light is allowed onto the diagonal face of the cheshire while looking through the peephole. The eye should see small concentric circles in the crosshair centre. The lens is adjusted with shims or push/pull bolts until the little circles are aligned concentrically.
I am itching to try out the scope now but must wait a little longer until the mounting arrangement is finished. In the meantime here are some more pictures. The finder scope is a standard straight through GSO 8x50.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619976 - 06/04/11 09:42 AM Attachment (41 downloads)
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The side on view.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619982 - 06/04/11 09:45 AM Attachment (47 downloads)
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Teddy likes it! This shows the dew shield, it is held on with 4 brass screws. You can see my painting skills are limited but at least it is glossy looks good from a distance.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4619986 - 06/04/11 09:47 AM Attachment (50 downloads)
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From the rear.
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Don Allen
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/07/05
Loc: Charleston, SC
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4620293 - 06/04/11 12:52 PM
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Beautiful.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Don Allen]
#4620872 - 06/04/11 05:51 PM
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Thanks Don
Using bathroom scales the weight is around 6.8 kilos (15 lbs) as shown in the photos complete with finder, diagonal and 40mm eyepiece. Tube rings will probably add another kilo. I am happy with that.
Andy
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4621030 - 06/04/11 07:16 PM
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I have come round to the red. Goes well with brass.
Did you make the brass tube adapter on a lathe? I might go this way on my one simply because it looks so good! I am using the same focuser as you so should work.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4621631 - 06/05/11 02:48 AM
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Yes Steve
It is an easy job on a lathe. Just copy the profile from the original GSO adapter. I used 100mm brass stock.
Andy
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4621677 - 06/05/11 04:04 AM
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You are a brilliant man Andy
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mercedes_sl1970
sage
   
Reged: 12/02/05
Loc: Canberra, Oz
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4621680 - 06/05/11 04:08 AM
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6.8kgs for a scope that size is excellent. Can't wait to hear how it goes under the stars.
Andrew
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: mercedes_sl1970]
#4621724 - 06/05/11 05:11 AM
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The weight is excellent. My 6" F10 weighs twice that.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4623965 - 06/06/11 10:21 AM Attachment (72 downloads)
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My Berry mount isn't finished but I couldn't wait and put it together enough to use the scope. The pier mount here is actually a little undersized for this scope. I normally use it with a 6" f5 and it is fine for that. For the longer 5" f12 it wobbles a bit and damping is around 2 seconds. I can improve on that later when I finish the mount properly.
The scope worked very well. The sky was clear, seeing was not the best but good enough for first light. I had a great view of Saturn and some brighter DSO's. I tried some star testing and the inside focus rings were concentric. The out focus rings were not so distinct and showed some colour but I'll put that down to the atmosphere for now. There was no false colour on Saturn even at 300x (5mm Nagler). I need to do more testing and direct comparisons to other scopes for a proper judgement of this lens but I am pleased with it so far and look forward to more observing.
Andy
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madrian
member
Reged: 06/30/08
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4624996 - 06/06/11 07:29 PM
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Quote:
There was no false colour on Saturn even at 300x (5mm Nagler).
Nice project.
Saturn is not really a good test for colour correction as it is fairly yellow. It looks good in my 6"F8 Synta doublet which performs poorly on other objects like Jupiter.
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Don Allen
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/07/05
Loc: Charleston, SC
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: madrian]
#4625010 - 06/06/11 07:39 PM
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Congrats on a nice scope Andy.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Don Allen]
#4625477 - 06/07/11 12:25 AM
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Thanks guys
I was reluctant to comment too much on the lens performance until further testing but I can see already it is good. How good remains to be seen. I will eventually test it side by side with a D&G 5 inch f15 but that won't be until later in the year. Tonight I am hoping to do a direct comparison to my D&G 6 inch f15 which I will stop down to 5 inch (effectively f18.3). That will be interesting and valid. I will try it on the moon and some stars.
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4626893 - 06/07/11 06:59 PM
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Well I had a pleasant evening last night. The conditions were similar to the previous night, clear sky and seeing about 3 out of 5, not ideal but not too bad. I made an aperture stop out of black card for the 6 inch D&G which made it a 5 inch f18.3 (2330mm focal length). The Istar 5 inch f12 has a focal length of 1500mm. This naturally gave the D&G an advantage and it did perform better overall. Less false colour and steadier images. The Istar was very good though and I am not dissappointed in any way. It is a fine lens and I recommend it as good value for the price.
It was not possible for me to match magnifications but even so it was an interesting and fun experiment. With a 13mm Nagler in the D&G (179x) and a 9mm Nagler in the Istar(167x) I started on the moon. The images were sharper with less false colour in the D&G (almost none visible). They both showed tremendous detail. The Istar was also disadvantaged due to a less steady mount which made critical focusing more difficult so with that in mind I feel further testing on a better night is required.
I tried swapping diagonals between the scopes (GSO dielectric and AP Maxbright) but this didn't seem to make any difference. I also tried some star testing with a green filter (Baader Solar Continuum). For this I used the 9mm Nagler in the D&G (259x) and a 5mm Nagler in the Istar (300x). The star was Beta Centaurus. There was atmospheric disturbance in both images but otherwise they were similar inside and outside of focus with the slightly clearer (steadier) images coming from the D&G probably due to the focal length advantage. I would like to do this again on a better night when the chance comes.
Star testing without the green filter both scopes showed false colour (violet haze) on Beta Centaurus at the above mentioned magnifications. There was less in the D&G as expected due to the longer f ratio. In trying to quantify the level of false colour I removed the aperture stop from the D&G and the false colour increased as expected. The false colour shown in the Istar 5 inch f12 at 300x was similar to the D&G 6 inch f15 at 259x. While not being an exact test and certainly subjective I found this interesting as Istar classify this lens as R30 which refers to a reduction in false colour of 30% compared to a standard achromat of similar size and f ratio. I don't know if this means 30% across the whole visual spectrum or just at certain wavelengths. I really am not too concerned as a little false colour does not bother me too much as long as the lens is good in other aspects.
A standard 6 inch f15 has a CA ratio of 2.5. A standard 5 inch f12 has a CA ratio of 2.4.
Based on my subjective test done in less than ideal conditions using different magnifications I would say that the 5 inch f12 Istar has similar false colour level to a D&G 6 inch f15. Take that for what it's worth (not much). It is certainly not a fair test but an interesting side note for now. I did not buy the Istar lens expecting an apo for the price of an achro. I wanted a quality longer focal length 5 inch lens delivered in a reasonable time and that is what I received.
After the testing I just had fun observing various objects. I looked at Saturn and then some brighter DSO's. At lower magnifications the views in the scopes were more or less the same. High contrast, flat fields and sharp stars as expected of good refractors.
A 5 inch f12 is certainly a great deal more compact and managable than a 6 inch f15 and I can see that a 5 inch f15 will be sudstantially larger also not just in tube length but also tripod height. My work schedule means I won't be able to construct the 5 inch f15 D&G for another few months but I will test the two scopes side by side then and continue to use the Istar in the mean time.
Andy
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Jeff B
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 12/30/06
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4626990 - 06/07/11 08:05 PM
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Andy, nice report. Istar offers good achromats.
A couple of things for consideration. My understanding is that the R30 is the % spot size area reduction at the C & F lines.
Also when you stopped the D & G down, the light cone was no longer intersecting the stops in the tube. This will lead to reduced impact from tube currents spilling over the baffle edges. That was not the case for the 5" F12. I see this effect all the time when I stop down my D & G 11" F12.
Once again, I've really enjoyed this thread and thanks.
Jeff
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Jeff B]
#4627076 - 06/07/11 08:48 PM
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Thanks Jeff
I appreciate your experience making and using refractors. Your comment on the tube currents spilling over the baffles is very interesting and makes a case for not having baffles that follow the light cone. In the thin ply design I've used the baffles act as frames however the aperture holes in them could be larger to allow clearance for tube currents. Off axis light reflections could possibly be controlled with flocking and the dew (glare) shield. I am open to try a different approach with the next scope.
Andy
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drshr
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/08
Loc: Darwin, Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Jeff B]
#4627338 - 06/07/11 11:20 PM
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This is interesting indeed.
I was playing with baffles in my plyscope last month. I also thought that the image was less steady with baffles in place but dismissed my thoughts as imagination.
I have flocking material on order. A steady image is more important to me than 5% more contrast.
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astroneil
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 07/28/09
Loc: res publica caledoniae
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4627663 - 06/08/11 07:14 AM
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Hello Andy,
That was a great report. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I was quite impressed with the 6" f/10 Istar overall. Looks like you have a winner with the 5" F/12 Istar too. I wonder if the R30 lens makes any material difference over the standard Istar lens at these F ratios?
Best wishes,
Neil.
Ps. What ya going to do with all those plyscopes when you've finsihed playing with them?
Edited by astroneil (06/08/11 07:15 AM)
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Jeff B
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 12/30/06
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: drshr]
#4627693 - 06/08/11 07:52 AM Attachment (68 downloads)
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Sure, not to stray off topic but you can have the best of both worlds with what I call "ventilated" baffles.
An example on my 6" F10 Istar.
Jeff
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: astroneil]
#4628829 - 06/08/11 06:55 PM
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Hi Neil
I will have to sell one or two of them eventually but I am having fun making them as well as using them. Not to mention learning a thing or two along the way. 
It is difficult to say whether the R30 specification makes a visible difference without comparing the type side by side with a standard lens in a same focal length, same tube design scenario. 
Andy
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: Jeff B]
#4628837 - 06/08/11 07:00 PM
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Thats a great picture Jeff.
I like the ventilated baffles. I will try something similar with the next scope. What do you think about having a small hole or two in the tube near the lens end? The focuser end has air gaps in the focuser so with a vent hole at the upper end the air could breathe through the tube slowly.
Andy
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astroneil
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 07/28/09
Loc: res publica caledoniae
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4632329 - 06/10/11 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Hi Neil
I will have to sell one or two of them eventually but I am having fun making them as well as using them. Not to mention learning a thing or two along the way. 
It is difficult to say whether the R30 specification makes a visible difference without comparing the type side by side with a standard lens in a same focal length, same tube design scenario. 
Andy
Hi Andy,
That's a toughee. I'd say that when you get a chance to compare your 5" f/15 D&G with the 5"f/12 Istar R30, then you'll get some idea of whether the putative 30% better colour correction in the latter has any effect.
Regards,
Neil.
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astroneil
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 07/28/09
Loc: res publica caledoniae
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: astroneil]
#4684779 - 07/10/11 11:29 AM
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Andy,
I hope all this talk of colour correction has not dampened your enthusiasm for the 5" Istar refractor.
How are you getting on with it?
Any more stories to report?
Best wishes,
Neil.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: astroneil]
#4685622 - 07/10/11 06:25 PM
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Hi Neil,
I've been away from home for the last 4 weeks but will be back again soon. Looking forward to finishing the mounting and using the scope some more. My work interferes with my hobbies but then if I didn't have a job I probably wouldn't have any hobbies either.
Andy
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imhotep
Vendor - Optical Supports
   
Reged: 02/14/07
Loc: Floriduh
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: plyscope]
#4688221 - 07/12/11 08:39 AM
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Andy, I thoroughly enjoyed reading about this build. I've been wanting to build a long-throw refractor for so long and haven't pulled the trigger yet. Yours is finest looking wooden refractor I've seen on these forums. Congratulations on a beautiful scope and thanks for documenting it so well. Very inspiring.
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plyscope
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Perth, West Australia
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Re: 5" F12 Istar Refractor project
[Re: imhotep]
#4688344 - 07/12/11 09:55 AM
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You are welcome Curt. Virtually all of my methods and techniques come from others. I always enjoy learning about telescope making techniques and am only too happy to share my own experiences in the hope of inspiring others.
Andy
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