Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
lighttrap
   
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
|
|
What follows is a work in progress. It's largely the attempt of a couple of us to put together some form of helpful guide to the telescope market. It's not complete or comprehensive. We welcome constructive input.
**************************************
Whatever the endeavor, we’ve all got to start somewhere. And the question of where to begin is frequently the most daunting question of all. Amateur astronomy is no exception to this rule, and in fact, could serve as a good illustration of how huge and complex a subject can seem when first approached. There are so many telescopes, so much gear, so much in the sky to look at, that to the uninitiated the wealth of information available can be difficult to sort through for the sake of decision making. It’s so much easier to just grab a relatively inexpensive “beginner’s scope,” and see how it goes.
And this is where many people go wrong. There really is no such thing as a beginner’s telescope as such, and those sold under this label confuse people into equating small with simple, easy, or less complicated. Small telescopes have their place in amateur astronomy, but apertures in the neighborhood of 60mm can be frustrating for the beginner. Never mind for a moment those all too commonly seen models on inadequate mounts and made of poor quality material, you need a fair amount of skill to effectively use a scope with such a limited light gathering power. And then you factor in the often very low quality standards set by some manufacturers of such scopes: unstable mounts, cheap eyepieces, and finder scopes not much better that half an opera glass. The difficulty of finding anything other than the Moon with such a telescope puts many people right off astronomy. They believe, incorrectly of course, that this is too complicated a hobby for ‘just folks.’ A somewhat larger telescope, of higher-quality construction (and not costing a lot more) would have made a better introduction. By starting out in a small way, the newbie is often headed off at the proverbial pass, and never knows any better.
Two sorts of people find themselves dealing with the issue of that all-important first telescope: the would-be beginning astronomers themselves, and those of us with more experience who are frequently approached for advice on the subject. The following is meant as a guide to the process of determining what sort of telescope might best suit a prospective “newbie,” with the aim of providing a good enough match to a specific person that the first scope does not prove to be a “hobby killer.” These are not hard and fast rules, but an illustration of the process that should be followed in order to make sure that the question of “where to begin” receives the best possible answer.
So, if there’s no such thing as a beginner’s telescope, any good sized telescope will do? Not quite. For someone totally new to astronomy, being overwhelmed by too much telescope, too soon, can be every bit the hobby killer a small, cheap telescope is known to be. A good first telescope should be (following the “Lighttrap Criteria”):
1. Affordable
2. Extremely easy to point from one part of the sky to another
3. Extremely simple to set up, use, and maintain
4. Easily portable by the intended user (of whatever age or physical ability)
5. Capable of showing fairly wide swaths of the night sky (for ease of object finding)
6. Something that can bring enjoyment for years of use as knowledge of the
night sky broadens and interests change (i.e. allows room for growth)
Sounds sensible enough, right? But which telescope covers all of these bases? That depends entirely on the beginner who will be using the scope. And to get at this part of it, ask him/her/yourself these questions:
1. How old is the potential astronomer? (Especially relevant if the scope is being purchased as a gift for someone else.)
2. How much weight can you/he/she lift and carry over short distances? (A scope that is easily moved around is a better choice than a heavier model if you have limited access to open sky - trees, nearby buildings, etc. are in your way - or if you live where the weather is on the rainy side and you need to grab the scope and get out there to take advantage of sudden opportunities to enjoy a break in the clouds.)
3. What's the budget for this purchase? (You may need to be flexible with this one, since it’s hard to set the budget firmly until you see what the market is like. But when you set a budget, make an honest effort to stay well within it, since you will almost certainly need accessories soon after the initial purchase.)
4. What's the attraction to the sky based on? (Have any specially areas of interest been mention that might guide scope selection? Is photography a goal, or at least one of the attractions?)
5. Will the scope need to be travel-worthy? (It might be necessary to get out of town for darker skies from time to time.)
6. Are the constellations and brighter stars known quantities, or is the prospective astronomer starting from scratch?
7. What sort of room is available for storage?
8. Does the prospective astronomer change interests/hobbies often? (Especially important when considering a telescope as a gift for a child. Are there lots of other hobby-related material currently sitting around unused, which at one time formed the center of his/her universe?)
9. Might the scope also see use for bird watching or other terrestrial pursuits?
10. Is sharing the views with family & friends important?
11. Is astrophotoghraphy a possible future interest?
The answers to the questions can be used flow-chart fashion to provide a guide to telescope selection. The following is an example of this, using some well-known brands and sizes of telescope. Once again, this is a guide, and not a set of rules for telescope shopping. The telescopes available to you may represent different brands. However, there are so many similarities that you should still be able to look at what happens to be available, compare that with the example below, and come away with something better than a ‘best guess’ as to what you should do.
1. How old is this person?
Small or young children (under 10 years:
- Pick from list A
Preteens:
- Pick from list B or possibly C depending
Teenagers:
- Pick from any list as appropriate
2. How much weight can you/he/she lift and carry over short distances?
Absolute minimal: less than 15lbs.
- Pick from list A
Up to 25lbs.
- Pick from list A or B
Up to 50lbs
- Pick from A, B, or C
No limit
- Pick whatever you like. (But be careful! Some of this stuff is heavier than it looks!)
3. What's the budget?
Up to $250 including shipping
- Pick from list A
Up to $350
- Pick from list A or B
Up to $500
- Pick from A, B or C
4. What's the attraction to the sky based on? (Have any specially areas of
interest been mention that might guide scope selection?)
Moon & Planets
- Pick either one of the refractors or reflectors as appropriate to other criteria.
Deeper Space Objects (DSOs)
- Pick most appropriate reflector.
Astrophotography
- The best bet would be to visit the appropriate forum here at Cloudy Nights. Even for an experienced photographer astrophotography can require a different sort of equipment compared to that of a visual observer, to say nothing of a much larger budget.
5. Will the scope need to be travel-worthy?
Yes
- Pick a small refractor on a collapsible tripod.
No
- Pick from any list as appropriate.
6. Are the constellations and brighter stars known quantities, or is the
prospective astronomer starting from scratch?
Starting from scratch:
- Spend time learning at least a dozen constellations either naked eye or with
binoculars before proceeding on to a scope of any kind. Basic star charts and planispheres are available in many bookstore and from most online astronomy sources. You can do this after purchasing a telescope, but developing a familiarity with the sky will certainly tell you whether or not you really want to pursue this hobby!
A good pair of binoculars will never become redundant. Most of us practicing astronomy use ours on a regular basis as aids to finding objects, and to just relax and take in the big picture.
A word on GOTO scopes:
While scopes capable of locating celestial objects via their own built-in computers and servos have a great deal of appeal, it’s important to remember that for the person on a budget, any amount that the telescope manufacturer spends on the computer guidance system, means that they’re spending that much less on the optics. That problem can be dealt with nicely by simply spending more money, but for the person on a strict budget, that might not be an option. Several manufacturers currently offer very small aperture scopes, often with very poor optics, that have nominal GOTO capabilities, but more often than not these are just not capable of meeting the very rudimentary criteria set forth at the beginning. What’s more, many boast large numbers of objects in their databases, most of which are simply beyond the capabilities of the limited aperture of these small scopes.
7. What sort of room is available for storage?
Absolute minimal:
- Pick from list A
Small corner in closet or bedroom:
- Pick from list A or B
Space in garage, basement, etc. available:
- Pick from any list as appropriate.
8. Does the prospective astronomer change interests/hobbies often? (Lots of
other hobby-related material currently sitting around unused, which at one time
formed the center of the universe?)
Yes
- Pick from list A or B
No (They tend to really stick with what they start.)
- Pick from any list as appropriate.
9. Might the scope also see use for bird watching or other terrestrial pursuits?
Yes
This dictates a small, fast, wide FOV refractor on an Alt-Az mount, and a somewhat specialized one at that. Refer to Cloudy Days forum for more help.
No
- Pick from any list as appropriate.
10. Is sharing the views with family & friends very important to you?
Yes
This almost mandates a scope with tracking capabilities. Many modern Equatorial mounts can accept optional axis drives, which keep objects in the field of view. Keep in mind that this adds additional expense and often more setup time and a steeper initial learning curve. The scopes in list D have been selected specifically to address the needs of those who are willing to pay more, and put up with a bit more initial learning of the equipment in order to facilitate sharing the views, and/or sketching what they see at the eyepiece.
11. Will the telescope be used for astrophotography?
Yes
This requires at minimum a good sturdy mount capable of tracking. And it very likely involves some considerable expense. For suggestions on telescopes appropriate to astrophotography, or terrestrial digiscoping refer to one of the astrophography forums, or for terrestrial digiscoping refer to Cloudy Days.
**************
These lists are not at all comprehensive or complete. These lists limited this to scopes that are known as really solid, known performers. In fact, one criteria for inclusion on these lists is multiple favorable reviews of them, somewhere on the web, or in print. That means that the lists are quite limited, and many scopes are not listed at all, simply because suitable numbers of positive reviews could not be found for them. So, in a sense, the scopes listed here have been “vetted” as representing good solid performers for their respective categories.
As it stands right now, no Maks or SCTs are listed. The reason for that is that the smaller ones that would nominally meet the budgetary requirements often have very narrow fields of view, and more often than not, do not handle either very low or moderately high powers very well. The larger ones tend to be too expensive for the criteria set forth here. The first 3 lists are limited to selections to under 50lbs complete, and under $500 total including shipping, since that is the category of scope most likely to appeal to the target audience for this guide. Furthermore, some scopes that would nominally meet said list criteria have been left off these lists due to having somewhat questionable performance records. Note that scopes appearing on multiple lists are not necessarily better, they just meet multiple criteria. Further note that these lists are meant only as suggestions, and that in countries other than the US, the same equipment may be marketed under other brand names. For instance, Skywatcher brand offers many of the scopes listed here in Canada.
A list= highly portable, under 15lbs, under $250 including shipping & planisphere
Edmund's Astroscan
Orion Starblast
B list = up to 30lbs, under $350 including shipping + planisphere
Reflectors
Celestron Firstscope 114 EQ
Orion XT4.5
Orion Space probe 130
Refractors
Orion Astroview 90 EQ
ShortTube 80 on either Alt-Az or EQ mount from Celestron, Meade, Orion or numerous others
C list = up to 50lbs completely assembled, up to $500 including shipping and beginning star map
Reflectors
Celestron Starhopper 6
Celestron Starhopper 8
Discovery DHQ 6"
Discovery DHQ 8"
Hardin DSH-6
Hardin DSH-8
Orion XT6
Orion XT8
Refractors
Celestron C102
Celestron C4 R
Orion Skyview Pro 100mm EQ
D list = up to 75lbs total, up to $750 including shipping, drive motors, and polar alignment scope (Often these drive motors & polar scopes are extra cost items, but all on this list meet the extended budget criteria with drives & necessary parts.)
Reflectors
Celestron C6N with drives
Celestron NexStar 130GT (GOTO)
Orion Skyview Pro 6 EQ with drives
Orion Skyview Pro 8 EQ with drives
Refractors
Short tube 80 (various manufacturers) on EQ mount with drive motors
Orion Skyview Pro 100mm EQ w/RA drive
Orion Skyview Pro 120mm EQ w/RA drive
Additional information can be found on noted scope reviewer
Ed Ting's Telescope Matrix
Note: Parents considering buying a scope for a child will want to read this post: A 9 year old decides between a small refractor with Goto vs a small Dob on the merits of using each.
*************************
Tom Watson
Mike Swaim
Edited by lighttrap (03/30/05 12:06 PM)
|
lighttrap
   
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
|
|
I think I should probably point out that many fine scopes that received very favorable reviews on various sites, as well as many newer products aren't represented above. The reason is simple. To meet the criteria, the telescopes and mounts had to be currently & readily available, and had to have had credible positive reviews. The first criteria limits out discontinued scopes, and the 2nd limits out brand new products.
-------------------- 18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Lighttrap, it's a great post. Although I would consider ST80 with alt-az setup as highly portable and light as well. We should make a note to that in questionaire #2.
|
Tim2723
The Moon Guy
   
Reged: 02/19/04
Posts: 5118
Loc: Northern New Jersey
|
|
Lighttrap, nicely done! A very difficult task to say the least. I especially liked the way you handled astrophotography as a subject that has special requirements and that you didn't get bogged down by that. I also support your choice to exclude catadioptrics for the newest of newcomers, and your handling of the goto scopes was excellent.
I'm still not certain how I feel about including brand names and specific models though. As the models change, are you confident you'll be able to keep up with the revisions to the documant? It would be a shame if this fell to disuse simply by becoming dated.
Again, nicely done and congratulations to all who took part in its development!
-------------------- The crwth will set you free!
|
desertstars
Deja moo
   
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 29956
Loc: Tucson, AZ
|
|
Avoiding being bogged down by photography without blowing it off entirely was a worry at the beginning. My first impulse was to simply dismiss it as a beginners issue, but input from the original thread (What Eaxctly Is A Beginner's Scope) made it clear that we should do something more. And up to this point, GOTO hadn't even entered my mind (nice catch, Mike), although it should have. I have nothing against GOTO, but do believe the attraction of adding it to small scopes as a lure to those who see the night sky as an overwhelming mass of detail can lead to a bad decision. Doesn't matter at all if it can point your 60mm refractor at M66 - you still won't be able to SEE M66!
More feedback, please, ladies and gentlemen!
-------------------- Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going." Professor Irwin Corey
|
kiwisailor
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 1108
Loc: Lyttelton, New Zealand
|
|
Tom, Mike, terrific job, well done.  Buy only from a specialist astronomy store, or store that has a specialist astronomy department, check Cloudy Nights vendor Feed Back forum for vendors recommended by other CN'ers
Steve
--------------------
Don't wait until tomorrow, start procrastinating today!
Sky-Watcher 8" F5 Newt
Mmmm Moonlite CR2
|
conus
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 10/12/03
Posts: 2974
Loc: OC, Calif
|
|
Great job. Regarding goto, you might think about adding information on Orion's Intelliscope. It can be purchased without push-to capability, which can be added later for $150.00.
It seems as if this hobby attracts a personality type rather than a particular demographic. But, even though both sexes and beginners of all ages are represented, CN posters seem comprised for the most part by males over the age of 35. If I were a telescope reseller and was told that I could only sell to CN members and could only sell 15 models, I would definitely include three or four catadiopric scopes, some of which are not beyond the means or abilities of many beginners and are a great compromise of features.
-------------------- Steve R.
12" Orion XTi
Fujinon 10x42
Oberwerk 12x60
My toUcam Images
|
jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
   
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22361
Loc: NE Ohio
|
|
Quote:
If I were a telescope reseller and was told that I could only sell to CN members and could only sell 15 models, I would definitely include three or four catadiopric scopes, some of which are not beyond the means or abilities of many beginners and are a great compromise of features.
In avidly reading all the discussion Groups for years, I have become aware that more folks than you might expect choose a medium to large GoTo SCT as their first telescope. I don't know that it's a good thing but it's true.
I think there are some great starter SCT's under $1000. Both of Celestron's C5's (GEM and forkmount) can be recommended. The LX10 is a solid performer with significant aperture.
-------------------- John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
152mm F/10 achromat
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200
ST-10XME
Edited by jrcrilly (08/10/04 01:53 PM)
|
lighttrap
   
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
|
|
I think it's quite possible that an under $1000, or maybe under $1200, category will be added to that preliminary grouping at some point. That will greatly expand options, and it would most definitely include some SCTs and perhaps some MCTs and Mak-Newts. However, one thing that doing the research for those groupings really hammered home to me, was how limited the selections are when one starts really only allowing complete scopes w/mounts at the lower price brackets. The other criteria that I was insistent upon, were credible reviews. Keep the suggestions flowing. If you have specific suggestions that fit into the existing framework, PMing me with specific links to specs, prices and perhaps a review or two would be a big help.
Thanks, Mike
-------------------- 18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
|
desertstars
Deja moo
   
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 29956
Loc: Tucson, AZ
|
|
Quote:
I think it's quite possible that an under $1000, or maybe under $1200, category will be added to that preliminary grouping at some point.
But probably not anything much higher than that. There may be complete beginners who can (at least financially) leap into astronomy at such a level, but the more expensive the equipment (and the more complicated) a newbie goes for (and assuming they succeed in effectively using such a purchase) the more likely we are to be dealing with someone who is an exception to what a newbie is in general terms. It's like the photography and GOTO questions: higher-end equipment needs to be addressed, but only up to a point. I don't believe that most beginners, regardless of age and income, are likely to be so bold.
-------------------- Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going." Professor Irwin Corey
|
Rusty
Postmaster
   
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16334
Loc: Brooker, FL
|
|
Great job lighttrap! 
Tom W brings up a good point - I think there are new newbies (those interested in stargazing for the first time)and old newbies (those who've harbored the urge for years and now have the wherewithal and time to be able to relish the features of an upscale rig).
So, I'd have no qualms about adding GOTO SCTs to the list as it expands.
-------------------- N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
|
square_peg
Postmaster
   
Reged: 03/26/04
Posts: 23781
Loc: Maple Valley, WA
|
|
Excellent job, Tom and Mike. You've done a great service to newbies (and not so newbies) everywhere.
-------------------- Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
SVP 100 f/6 achro
WO 66 Petzval
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals
History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides
|
werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
   
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7407
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
|
|
Looks great!! Pete 
-------------------- Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
|
half meter
Postmaster
   
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 12509
Loc: Great Lakes
|
|
This is an impressive effort, Tom and Mike. In reality, your flowchart is capturing the advice that should normally be given by reputable dealers. Your flowchart gives specific enough advice to identify a particular scope as appropriate for beginners. Having a particular model identified means the difficult, confusing part is over. Now, the beginner can either buy new, or, they will know what to search for in the used scope market. With a fixed budget, a used scope may end up being a better scope and enabling a better experience.
So that leads me to suggest you add SCTs. My 1st scope was a *used* 8" SCT. I enjoyed it for over 19 years before getting another scope. In hindsight, I had no such flowchart or dealer guiding me, and I was lucky to have picked the SCT. If I were to sell that Meade LX-2 8" SCT today, I don't think I'd get over $400 for it -- well within the stated range. The only problem here is the beginner would have to recognize the LX-2 as a simplified LX-90... is that asking too much?
-------------------- Gary
Collins I3 (Thin Film) Image Intensifying Eyepiece
Coronado Maxscope DS 90 <0.5A w/BF30
152 mm f/8 TMB/A&M Carbon Fiber APO; f/5 with 4" Borg ED Field Flattener/Reducer
20" Obsession/OMI Mirror/Servocat/Argo Navis
First Light for the 30" Obsession at BEOTS!
|
lighttrap
   
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
|
|
Guys, good suggestions all. However, may I respectfully submit that before submitting any more "additions" that folks really aquaint themselves with what's available in terms of currently available scopes as complete setups, and then apply the cost/weight matrix to those selections. I'm not trying to be harsh, but those that have fond memories of a used "whatever" bought, whenever, while valid, may not really be best addressing the needs of the newbie who wants a new scope in present day. Keep in mind the criteria of these lists: only new scopes, currently available, available as full kits, and with multiple favorable reviews. Not Aunt Clara's yard sale one of a kind deal on something that nobody else will likely ever be able to duplicate (else I'dve listed a couple of my better finds), and not slick sales guy Clarence's "last chance sale" , and not what somebody that knows the field would put together if given 6 months of shopping Astromart with an eye for bargains, but what can actually be bought, new, complete off dealer shelves in USA, today, for the listed price categories, and within the listed weight categories. Check it out for yourselves, and you'll find how limiting this can be.
Keep the inputs coming, but keep in mind that this was a specific target audience piece, and keep in mind that some of what's already been suggested falls way outside of listed parameters. If you know different, then share it.
Keep in mind that this entire target piece was directed at those wishing to spend under $500USD TOTAL for scope and mount. It's mutated a little since then, but that was, and still is, the target audience. We, respectfully ask for your help with this project, if you have direct knowledge of how to improve it.
Thanks, Mike
-------------------- 18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
|
half meter
Postmaster
   
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 12509
Loc: Great Lakes
|
|
My essential point may have been lost while I traveled down memory lane 
So let me restate it. If $500 is the targeted maximum budget, then include *current model* scopes that can *reasonably* be bought for $500 *used* (forget Aunt Clara.) Likewise, include new scopes that have a street price under $500, no matter their list price.
To implement this suggestion, you would raise the targeted maximum to $900 or whatever, and include some more scopes. (I know, easy for me to say; much harder to work into the matrix all the additional candidate scopes.)
-------------------- Gary
Collins I3 (Thin Film) Image Intensifying Eyepiece
Coronado Maxscope DS 90 <0.5A w/BF30
152 mm f/8 TMB/A&M Carbon Fiber APO; f/5 with 4" Borg ED Field Flattener/Reducer
20" Obsession/OMI Mirror/Servocat/Argo Navis
First Light for the 30" Obsession at BEOTS!
|
BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2576
|
|
Quote:
My essential point may have been lost while I traveled down memory lane 
So let me restate it. If $500 is the targeted maximum budget, then include *current model* scopes that can *reasonably* be bought for $500 *used* (forget Aunt Clara.) Likewise, include new scopes that have a street price under $500, no matter their list price.
To implement this suggestion, you would raise the targeted maximum to $900 or whatever, and include some more scopes. (I know, easy for me to say; much harder to work into the matrix all the additional candidate scopes.)
I'll second this recommendation on the basis that any "First Scope" buyers' guide for adults should include the 8-inch SCT as a viable option. This is arguably the most popular serious amateur telescope in the world and is undoubtedly one of the best options for the new amateur astronomer with either a general interest in observing or a serious interest in astrophotography.
However, if the guide is to be geared towards children (teens and younger), then I can see the case for excluding scopes costing more than about $500. There aren't many guides out there that really target the parent who's shopping for a son or daughter with a new-found interest in the stars. Such a guide would be a valuable resource and a price limit of $500 is more than enough for a decent quality, easy to setup and use telescope.
In a "First Scope" for children guide, I'd recommend not even going into telescopes for astrophotography other than to explain that the investment in time and money to get good results is very significant. For the young person, it's better to focus on getting a good first scope for visual observing of the Moon, planets or deep-sky.
Regards,
Bill in Flagstaff www.cosmic-voyage.net
P.S. To Lighttrap and others working on the guide: It may seem like a thankless effort while you're working on it, but the feeling you get when that first person writes to say, "Thanks for helping me find a good first scope," is priceless.
-------------------- Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
|
desertstars
Deja moo
   
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 29956
Loc: Tucson, AZ
|
|
Something I don't think we've really done is set down exactly what the target audience we call beginners really is. I think I've had a half-subconscious focus on younger beginners, hence the price range. As Mike pointed out, the whole thing has mutated to cover a broader group, which is not a bad thing. If it can be managed we should probably put the upper limit on the list at around $1,000 with some notation made that the sky's the limit, but think twice before going to such extremes if you don't yet know how to find Polaris! (I'll try to work something like that into the intro in the next day or so.)
One thing I think we need to be careful about is trying too hard to cover the telescope market thoroughly. Not only will Mike and I likely be MUCH older before this could be done, it's been done already in books such as Star Wares and Backyard Astronomer's Guide. We should, I think, be shooting for a representative list, and perhaps refer the reader to these (among other) references if they feel the need for more.
-------------------- Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going." Professor Irwin Corey
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Quote:
I think there are some great starter SCT's under $1000. Both of Celestron's C5's (GEM and forkmount) can be recommended.
First off let me say this is a unbelievably wonderful thing for someone starting out to have access to, to help make a decision and head in the right direction.
I would like to say, I for one started looking at the C8 from day 1. I was given advice that it had too narrow a FOV. So I talked myself out of buying it. I bought 2 wide FOV scopes and have now ended up buying the C8. If I had it to do over again. I would buy the C8 right off. I think it is a perfect first scope if you can afford it and if it meets your criteria(goto, good aperature and photo capable)a well rounded resume.
Great job guys, I will say it again, this write up is a great tool for a beginner. I wish it would have been here when I started. Good luck on your progress. Great job.
|
lighttrap
   
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
|
|
If I get some time in the next week or two, I'll try to come up with a listing category for scopes up to $1200. I don't know what I think about including used scopes in the list. There are a lot of potential pitfalls there, and it's such a changing market, that I doubt that I'd ever have time to really keep up with it, or do it justice.
This doesn't really play into what does or doesn't go on the lists. But, just as an aside. I started out with a used Intes Micro M603 on a CG-5, with dual drives that I gave $1150 for complete. Even though it was a wonderful, very well built, extremely well made scope, it was positively the wrong scope to start off with. I wound up starting off with that one, because a lot of very well meaning folks on the web suggested that it was optically superb. It was, but the narrow FOV and limited power ranges made it really hard to find objects, and for quite awhile, I was so frustrated that I almost got completely out of this hobby before really getting into it. That scope also had huge cooldown issues and dewing problems. None of those major hassles was mentioned by the folks that steered me to that choice. It was a very good scope, for what it was, but it really wasn't beginner friendly. It's my hope that we can somehow eliminate some of the extreme frustrations that I went through with that scope, for anybody that winds up using this guide. Honestly, I wish I'dve started out with a $300-$400 6-8" Dob.
So, while I'm aware that adults starting out may be quite willing to venture into a more expensive scope market, and even into the used market, there are hidden pitfalls there that I hope we can help folks avoid. Mike
-------------------- 18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
|
|
|