Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
Leo.S
member
Reged: 09/21/09
Posts: 67
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
|
|
Most people I've met or knew in this hobby were like with tons of experience and they are either retired or having a established job, not seeing alot of young people like college students(or me) hanging around in this area. I wonder is there a specific professional program in universities for astronomy and what's the potential job opportunity after graduate.
|
aa5te
Genial Procrastinator
Reged: 08/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Clinton, TN
|
|
You can search online for BS/MS/PhD level astronomy programs - there are quite a few out there, and a select few that offer online education in this area.
As for job opportunities, I don't think that the demand is very high for astronomers - there are facilities worldwide that employ a handful of people, but, once you break into the field, I think you can pretty much go anywhere you want. I had a coworker (particle accelerator operations) who had a double BS in Physics and Astrophysics. He started taking a MS degree program online from John Cook University in Australia, and he was maybe halfway finished and he landed a job at the Sloan Digital Sky Survey in New Mexico, but that wasn't really where he wanted to be. He wanted to be in Hawaii, so after about 2 years at the SDSS, he got a job at PANSTARRS, which is in Hawaii. He seems to like it a lot...
--------------------
Shane
Binos: Apogee 25x100 / Burgess Optical 25x100 / Pentax 20x60 PCF WP / Tasco InFocus 10x50
Tripods: Sunpak PlatinumPlus Ultra 7500TM / Quickset Samson
Refractors: Meade DS-2102AT-TC 102mm f/7.8; Sears Discoverer 3 (4454) 80mm f/15; Jason 313 Discoverer 60mm f/15.2
Reflectors (Dob): Hardin Optical DSH10 10" f/5
EP's: Zoom: Zhumell 8-24mm & Circle K 7.5-22.5mm 0.965"; 9-52mm Plössls; Zhumell 2x barlow
Kodak Z760; Orion SteadyPix camera mount; Orion LaserMate Deluxe Collimator
|
bkruschwitz
member
Reged: 04/15/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Waco, TX
|
|
You can search U.S. News and World Reports "Rankings" of colleges by Ph.D. programs in physics (string/M theory, etc.) and/or astronomy, and undergraduate programs by physics and astronomy.
Bob
|
bsim
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 1057
Loc: New York City
|
|
Quote:
not seeing alot of young people like college students(or me) hanging around in this area.
It's not just a problem in your area. Visit any local astronomy club. The percentage of young members is pretty small. I have a Sky and Telescope survey from 2005 which stated that the average age of readers was 51 and climbing. It also said that the percentage of younger readers was dropping. People dropping subscriptions cited the high cost of equipment and lack of time.
|
94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 707
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
|
|
I am 32, and I can tell you I rarely see people my own age at the darksites. Most anybody I know or have spoken to that is interested in this hobby is atleast 15 years older than I am. It is really sad actually. Everybody is too busy watching reality tv or some other form of entertainment that doesn't require thinking or imagination..
Ken
--------------------
Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
|
ebusinesstutor
sage
Reged: 07/01/09
Posts: 460
Loc: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
|
|
Maybe more of us need to get involved in outreach to reach younger people...
--------------------
Garland Coulson
Orion XT8i Dob & Celestron 80 ED on a Vixen Porta Mount Mini
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Click Zoom & Siebert Observatory 36mm
Siebert Black Knight Binoviewers
SkyWatcher Observing Chair
Celestron Skymaster 15x70mm binos
|
scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Kingman, Ks
|
|
Thinking and imagination! You are so Correct. I really hate to bash any generation, mine was really labeled/from the 60's. It just appears that today's youth have an "if it don't happen instantly, I don't need it" attitude. Hmmmm-I sound like my parents.
|
Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
|
|
Well..I'm here..and I'm 34!
But you are right though, I don't observe wth anyone my age, everyone is older then I am. Most folks I know that are in this hobby are in their late 40's to mid 50's.
Now--if we can get a TV show to spark interest in astronomy like the old 1966 Star Trek did, we might have have alot of newcombers in this hobby.
Clear Skies to All!
--------------------
Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
|
joec33
super member
Reged: 06/13/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Chester, N.Y
|
|
Leo, I understand what your talking about. Unfortunatley, I grew up getting into all kinds of trouble, getting arrested, fights, dropped out of school and ended up in the military. Now that I'm out of the service astronomy seems to be the only thing that keeps me from going back to my old way of life. This hobby is a true life saver for me but when ever I tried to go to a starparty I had a hard time meeting anyone that was younger and not a PHD. After a while I relized that all that stuff doesn't matter and now I find it cool that I can hang out with a Dr or 65 year old and soak in the knowledge that they can share over a beer.
--------------------
“I'm not perfect, but who are we kidding, neither are you.”
Jeremy Grey
An Over accessorized XT10i
80mm Meade Series 5000 Apo w/duelspeed focuser
Vixen VMC110L
Orion Starblast6
Meade DSI PRO II, Orion S.S Autoguider
Advanced GT Mount
Kendrick Dew System
|
sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 944
Loc: Ok.
|
|
I would only have one or two scopes except most of my observing now is when I am introducing kids to astronomy. They get a kick out of it, for about 5 minutes. I try real hard to get them in to it. I keep changing the way I introduce astronomy to them. They do all want to look through the BIG scopes. But they all expect to see much more than even a 16" scope can show. And most want to see something happening. Even the high school kids can't comprehend any numbers. Some think 1 million is less than 1 billion. Heck one thought 1 trillion was less than 1 million. They all want to see color, hubble like views, in motion. I call them Nintendo kids. If it isn't fast moving action, it's hard to get their attention. Now I have luck with a few. And to make sure their interest builds, I usually give them a telescope. BUT some of the parents wouldn't dream of letting their 16 yo be outside after dark, and they aren't going to miss any TV to view with their kids. SO I try and get the parents interested too. When I can get both a dad and son intereted, they tend to get out and view, and hopefully end up a member of the ameture astronomy group. But of the few that have shown some interest, I know 2 of them only get the scopes out 3 or 4 times a year. I know when I was a kid, I wanted a telescope SO BAD. Today, they just don't seem to care. I get more interest when I just show the constillations using a green laser. I've given about 12 scopes away this year. I have 2 boyscout groups, a girlscout group and 1, 4H group to put on star parties for yet this year. I ususally set up 10-12 scopes for the kids use, and let each one have as much EP time as they like. Except at the big scopes, where there is always a line waiting for another look. I have my niece and 2 of my grandkids help the groups find targets. 5 of the scopes are tracking scopes and are pre set up on different targets. We keep checking these to make sure they are still on target. It's not a tracking problem as much as it is that they get bumped several times a night. Have any of you ever had your kids or grand kids school class out for a night of observing? Try it with a small group first. It's a lot of work.
--------------------
Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
|
Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5025
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
|
|
I've seen a few amateur astronomers who are younger, but it's mostly guys in my age range and older. Women are also quite few and far between, astronomy seems to be more a guy thing. As for majoring in astronomy or getting advanced degrees in astronomy, to break into the field is quite difficult because even though very few people get those degrees, positions are even scarcer. However, astronomers also tend to be experts in computers, electronics and physics, which leads to opportunities elsewhere.
Taras
--------------------
15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
|
sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 944
Loc: Ok.
|
|
AND MATH. Many Astronomy programs today, never look through a telescope. They are all math, and theory.
--------------------
Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
|
94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 707
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
|
|
On a very basic visual level, after you look at the Moon, Saturn and Jupiter, everything else you can view through a telescope is pretty boring. The thing that makes this hobby interesting is keeping the objects you view in context. While staring at a fuzzy blob for hours might not sound exciting, when you start thinking about how far away that fuzzy blob is, or how long ago it was when that light left that fuzzy blob, or what was life/conditions like on earth when that light left that fuzzy blob, etc. The very idea that these things are so far away, yet because of their massive size and brightness, are visible from earth is just amazing to me. Just thinking about the fact that the light from M31, traveling at ~186,000 miles per second, left that galaxy over 2 million years ago, yet that galaxy is larger in our sky than our own moon. How can anything be that big? How can anything be that far away?
As I said before, it requires some thinking, knowledge, and some imagination. It seems to me that much of the younger generation has little desire to attain knowledge, who needs it, anything you need to know is only a few clicks away on google.. Who needs imagination, you can play a video game that shows you everything. Who needs to read a book, you can watch the movie. Why learn to play a musical instrument, you can just buy guitar hero, and pretend to play, no effort required other than some basic hand eye cordination, etc, etc..
It is pathetic, and it is getting worse..
--------------------
Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
Edited by 94bamf (10/28/09 12:46 AM)
|
Tank
super member
Reged: 07/27/09
Posts: 139
Loc: Ontario, CANADA
|
|
Im 32 and i love the hobby,
Im the type of individual that loves to soak up everything that life has too offer! I always wanted to learn about the sky a bit more!
-Im a Architect, jack of all trades built a house with parents from the ground up.
-Really into sports play ball hockey in OBHL year round every year, played soccer forever as well.
-Love my cars also have 91 Camaro Z-28 summer ride in the garage that i work on once in a while.
-Follow all the major sports
-Love electronics, built a 50 RMS watt AMP from scratch including etching the circuit board!
- Oh yeah even love my video games PS3,Game cube RPG's
- love metal/rap music/classical, played the clarinet
-Been to NY city, and out East Canada PEI, Nova Scotia
-Love camping
-Love my wife as well!
I seem to have very little time with all these time consuming things but i sneek in a bit of time for astronomy!
To get people intrested in the hobby I think the best you can do is just introduce them to it! If you force feed them they will be turned off! I do find that most people my age and younger tend to have a real breif intrest in the hobby!
I havn't gone out yet to a star party but i hear good things about them, maybe i will meet some people that share the same intrests, age dosen't really matter! I find this site fantastic source of info. and there are some great people in these forums!!! 
I always wanted to get into the hobby thats why i eventually did and im very glad i did!
I cant tell you the reaction i recieved when i showed a few uncles and aunts (that new nothing about astronomy) when i showed them the moon with my telescope it was priceless!
They all of a sudden turned into a bunch of kids with excitement in there eye's all in amazement!
I thought to myself this is what life's all about good times and good experiences and astronomy will gave us this moment that them and me will never forget!
good times!
sorry for ramblin!
--------------------
8" Skywatcher DOB F5.9 1200mm
Antares barlow x3
TV Plossls 10.5mm,20mm,26mm,32mm
8.8mm meade 4000 UWA
12mm Nagler T4
35mm TV Panoptic
40mm Meade 3000
Baader Hyperion ZOOM 8-24mm
SPACE A PORTRAIT OF PERFECTION!
Tony
|
TenthEnemy
sage
Reged: 01/21/08
Posts: 428
Loc: Maryland
|
|
I'm a 20 year old college student who grew up playing Nintendo, and still enjoys playing video games. I also enjoy sketching at the eyepiece and pondering the vast distances and sizes of the small, faint smudges that I observe. Must one activity conflict with the other? 
--------------------
Orion XT10
70mm refractor
12x50 binoculars
|
Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
|
|
The hobby doesn't really get a lot of PR outside astrocircles. I know I had no idea one could actually get a decent non-toy telescope until I decided to research it myself.
And all the people I know that do this stuff are youngish. Helps to only know two other astropeople though 
--------------------
|
ggarrison
super member
Reged: 07/22/09
Posts: 162
Loc: Austin, TX USA
|
|
Quote:
I'm a 20 year old college student who grew up playing Nintendo, and still enjoys playing video games. I also enjoy sketching at the eyepiece and pondering the vast distances and sizes of the small, faint smudges that I observe. Must one activity conflict with the other?
Us old codgers are glad to have you!
--------------------
Gordon
Celestron Nexstar 8SE with XLT coating - Baader Planetarium Hyperion 8mm-24mm Clickstop Zoom eyepiece
Celestron Skymaster 20x80 Binoculars
Smart Seat II Observing Chair
all in the hands of a total neophite 
----------------------------
Register at ScopeBuddies.com to find local astronomy buddies! 
|
Adrian Lopez
sage
Reged: 10/22/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Puerto Rico
|
|
Possible factors:
1. Today's generation is spoiled by the abundance of very detailed images from Hubble and robotic spacecraft. People who expect Hubble-quality images tend to become disappointed and lose interest.
2. Light pollution and the loss of rural locations to the sprawling cities is making it more difficult to comfortably observe the multitude of objects that might otherwise keep people engaged for a lifetime. Nebulae can look pretty cool in reasonably dark skies, but not so much in light polluted cities. Saturn, the Moon and Jupiter aren't enough to keep some people interested.
3. There's a general lack of popular interest in space: Star Trek is off the air; Star Wars was better the first time around; Halley's Comet is gone won't be back for over half a century; and the modern space program largely feels like a dull routine.
--------------------
Celestron Omni XLT 120 (f/8.3) Refractor
William Optics 1.25" Dielectric Diagonal
Celestron 4, 6, 9, 15, 25, and 32mm EPs
Nikon Action Extreme 8x40 Binoculars
Canon Digital Rebel XT
RA Sweep Calculator (find objects without GoTo)
|
Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
|
|
I'd like to know though, have astronomy clubs ever been full of young people?
As for the declining readership of magazines, they're generally considered a dying medium. The internet is everywhere these days, and offers pretty much anything one could ask for on the subject.
--------------------
|
Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: Kentucky
|
|
Quote:
Well..I'm here..and I'm 34!
But you are right though, I don't observe wth anyone my age, everyone is older then I am. Most folks I know that are in this hobby are in their late 40's to mid 50's.
Now--if we can get a TV show to spark interest in astronomy like the old 1966 Star Trek did, we might have have alot of newcombers in this hobby.
Clear Skies to All!
Too bad PBS doesn't put on a series on their Create network about amateur astronomy.....a how to series.
--------------------
http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
|
edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5667
|
|
Quote:
I'd like to know though, have astronomy clubs ever been full of young people?
The "kid" in my club is in his 40s, the rest of us in 60s, but the club has been around for 20+ years so it must have had young people (most of these) at one time.
edj
--------------------
n w arkansas
|
o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: The TV/SV Wolfpack
|
|
I started out with a Christmas telescope when I was 13 never met another amateur until 10 years later. We looked at Mars using his 60mm refractor during the 1972(?) approach as my 6" truss Newt was still unfinished.
A couple of years later, I started checking in on John Dobson's group as Brian the Van Man lived a few blocks away from me. The downstairs garage was pretty much a fully functioning amateur dob shop and there were always a lot of young folks hanging out there.
I moved away from SF for work and basically life and earning a living got in the way of social astronomy. I had next to no contact with other astronomers and did my observing in the same backyard as I do today. Yes, my mortage is paid in full...yippee!
After discovering Cloudy Nights a couple of years ago, I realized I wasn't the last boy scout, joined a local astronomical society, and started attending star parties. I've probably learned more in the last 24 months than I did in all the preceding years. I certainly acquired a lot more equipment, too. LOL!
Apparently my conversations with my late brother-in-law about telescopes and observing inspired him to return to the hobby as well. He and my sister had decided to move from Maine to Tucson, Arizona for the better observing conditions just before his sudden passing. I miss that guy.
As long as the stars are out, there will be someone somewhere looking up at them. Finding them is the key. You've already taken the first step by signing on here at Cloudy Nights. Next step is find a local astronomical society. Join and go to the meetings. Go to star parties. Enjoy.
--------------------
Kit
'Don’t worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God’s wondrous universe.' - Thomas M Back
|
mdcantor
member
Reged: 09/24/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Central Virginia, USA
|
|
I'm actually turning 40 this year and purchased an 8" Meade for my birthday (my wife's just happy that this is the extend of my mid-life crisis...or hopes anyway!) I kept kicking myself for not getting back into it when I was younger. Even just setting up at dusk, getting the scope aligned, and working my way down my viewing "menu", I in part do it because it's fantastically relaxing. I manage a department in a corporate setting (Healthcare) and just find the build up to the viewing session to be exciting...but it also diverts my attention away from buzzing Blackberries and harassing email!
One thing about awareness. I've read many folks here post about how they view with their children. To me, that's the secret. If parents are plopped in front of the TV each and every day/night (okay, I do that during college football season!), their kids will follow suit. I drag my kids outside, point out different objects, and even got them their own Galileo scope. It piques their intellectual curiosity, and as they get older, they don't need to be prompted to get up early for a meteor shower, or to see what dad's looking at. It starts young, and it starts with our own kids....at least in my opinion.
--------------------
Meade LXD75 SN-8AT
Meade 3000 Series eyepieces
2x Barlow
|
Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: Kentucky
|
|
I was like Old Dude. I started out young and never met another astronomer besides my distant Uncle for almost 16 years when I joined the astronomy club. I was 22 and the rest were in their 40's, 50's and 60's. But I did manage to get some of my friends interested in the hobby and they joined the club and later became the backbone of the organization.
So what you need to do is get your friends interested in the hobby and then get them involved in the club and let it grow.
--------------------
http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
|
Shawn H
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 2972
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
|
|
This hobby requires "more or less": patience! money! available free night time! ability to travel! And real facination of more than just the visual aspects of sometimes poorly seen objects!  I first bought a telescope for my 10 year old (he's 16 now!). He was gung ho for a few months, then it passed! I'm still using that telescope, with a few others added since!  Go figure! 
--------------------
18" David Lukehurst truss Dobson with Sky Commander flash 4 DSC's & Moonlite CR2 focuser & Astrocrumb filter slide
Orion xt10i fully flocked with Telrad on 4" risers & Feather Touch focuser & huge Boston Red Sox decal
The original Orion StarBlast & 15x70 Celestron Skymaster binos & Ethos & Naglers & Dobs oh my!
Orion Ultrablock narrowband filter & Astronomik OIII line filter
Tele Vue 2x Barlow & Antares 1.6x (2") Barlow
CATSEYE collimation tools, TeleGizmos Dob covers
|
crenner
member
Reged: 04/01/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Long Island, NY
|
|
I only got into this hobby back in December, and Im 48. Something I always wanted to do but didnt for whatever reasons. My question is, out of all those 40 and over, when did you get started in astronomy? Im willing to bet it was later in life for most of us.
--------------------
Meade DS2130 ATS-LNT
Orion XT10 SkyQuest IntelliScope
|
Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6576
Loc: Frederick Maryland
|
|
Well this thread sure got off on a completely different topic....(Old Farts vs New Young Blood)
To be honest I'll soon be 66 and I retired over 10 years ago...
BUT I've owned at least one telescope since I was a boy scout in the mid 50's... and still can remember setting up a telescope to look at Sputnik and even after I was married I can remember watching Mans first step on the Moon on a Black and White "Gigantic" 24 inch TV ...
Actually this time frame was PERFECT for anyone even remotely interested in Astronomy and I was more then interested...Another major plus is that Astronomy is (in my opinion) a pretty CHEAP hobby...and raising a family paying the normal household bills really restricted my finances. ..As a young father even when money was EXTREMELY tight my Astronomy hobby did not cost me any money...a few eyepieces and a so so scope still were able to let me relax and get a smile on my face night after night...
Today...The space age is history...
youngsters do not get excited about space (I do not get excited about, Ipod's etc) so I guess each generation is slightly different...
I am also into cars..and a past president of our local Corvette club... LOL But I fit right in with the memberships age group... We have a few guys in their 40's but most are in their 50's and a good percentage of us are retired and in our 60's...
Over the years (Ive been a member for over 20 years) our club has evolved from frequenting the drag strip to frequenting restaurants which require a 1-2 hour drive to get to... nicer driving the cars a few hundred miles rather the 1/4 mile at a time)... Our club meetings are no longer held in a dealers shop (insurance killed the dealers providing us a place to work on our cars years ago) to meeting in the back room of a local restaurant/bar .. food and beer.. what else do we need...LOL
Oh well... I not complaining as I am still am upright and breathing...
Bob G
--------------------
CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
|
Montana_Nights
member
Reged: 04/19/09
Posts: 78
Loc: Ennis,Montana
|
|
I agree with most of the posters here. I'm 25. I'm not a student-yet-because I was in the service (Marines), but would like to have a career in astronomy/astrophysics.
I was looking at the forum entrance page, that lists all the members that have birthdays this month, and I'd say 95% of them were over 40. It dosn't help that I live in a small town so their isn't alot of people here to try to get "hooked". I guess the plus to their not being a lot of new people getting interested in astronomy is perhaps more jobs will open up.
BTW, I think a job at SDSS would be awesome, course I have lots of relatives in New Mexico...LOL. 
|
Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5025
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
|
|
You mean boring to the average individual with a very short attention span. Faint fuzzies may be boring to most folks today, but the thinking and knowledge aspect is what kept me peering through telescopes for more than three decades now. Seeing objects that very few other humans have ever seen makes shivering in the cold or long trips to dark sites worthwhile to me.
Taras
--------------------
15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
|
dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
|
|
Maybe I can help cheer you folks up. I'm only 24!
Unfortunately, I have to agree with the cynical/pessimistic comments made here. My generation is primed for instant gratification. It's getting worse but the issues are also so much deeper than that. The cost of this interest is definitely a road block. I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a job that afforded me a steady and more than comfortable living.
I hated school. I barely graduated from high school and I only did a 2 year technical school so I could move out of the house and at least attempt to meet my parents expectations. If you want to point a finger anywhere, point it at the schools. They've failed miserably; I know, I'm employed by a school system.
My friends think I'm a genius because I am somewhat familiar with the night sky, because I know how to use a telescope, because I'm employed as a network admin. The truth is I'm a prodigy in none of these areas; I just pay attention and, honestly, this kind of attention is extremely annoying. Folks think I'm a computer expert ... nope, I just figured out a long time ago that there is nothing really special about me or anything I do, someone has already been there and done that and the knowledge of those experiences is easy to find on google.
School was extremely boring. I couldn't stand hammering out math problems, even science classes barely caught my attention because they always turn out being nothing but book work and the teachers just drone on and on. There is no connection, no relevance. If we had done parallax measurements instead of the mindless repetition of geometry textbooks they would of had to drag me out of school at the end of the day.
Teachers don't tell you that this math they're teaching you facilitated essentially everything we know about reality. They don't tell you the philosophical implications of a language like math and how you can use it to describe the world around you and communicate it to another human being just like spoken word. And because of this we are a society of incredibly inarticulate communication and conversation. This is why reality TV does so well. Everyone knows how to say, "Awwww nuh she did'ent!" and it makes them feel a part of something a human drama, even though it's scripted, shallow, and an ultimately fruitless pass-time. I don't know when it happened but at some point it became unAmerican to be smart.
If you have an intelligent and curious child there's one sure fire way to destroy that, send them to school. At the end of the day motivation trumps intelligence and when you pack a couple hundred kids together and teach to the lowest common denominator you can be sure than anyone with aptitude for the study that we do will be gossiping about what happened on The Hills last night in no time, because it's either that or sitting at the lunch table alone.
|
Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'd like to know though, have astronomy clubs ever been full of young people?
The "kid" in my club is in his 40s, the rest of us in 60s, but the club has been around for 20+ years so it must have had young people (most of these) at one time.
edj
Not necessarily. If the average age at which people join clubs was as high back then as it apparently is now, then everything's pretty close to what it always has been
--------------------
|
nobody special
sage
Reged: 12/30/08
Posts: 403
Loc: Connecticut
|
|
Its a good question.
Is it possible that a hobby like this appeals more to an individual once they get older?
Seems to me that this stage in my life is what makes my scope such an enjoyable hobby. In my younger days I would have been too busy running around doing whatever, now that I'm older, mid forties, I find myself looking foward to a nice glass of wine and looking out into the night sky.
For me life has slowed down a notch, and astronomy has become a perfect hobby, but it would not have been so in my younger days. 
--------------------
Tom
Orion XT8 Classic
Hyperion 13mm (With 28mm Tuning Ring)
Orion Sirius 25mm
Meade Series 4000 Plossls 32mm 6.4mm
Orion Shorty Plus 2x Barlow
Telrad
OPT OIII Filter
ND Moon Filter
80a Blue Filter
Smart Seat III
|
auriga
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 794
|
|
Quote:
Most people I've met or knew in this hobby were like with tons of experience and they are either retired or having a established job, not seeing alot of young people like college students(or me) hanging around in this area. I wonder is there a specific professional program in universities for astronomy and what's the potential job opportunity after graduate.
Hi,
Participation in a number of other activities is also very skewed toward older people, to the concern of those taking part: the game of bridge, for example. See the article this week in the Wall Street Journal. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates play daily, but not younger people.
Opera goers and symphony goers are notoriously elderly. It worries everyone in the classical music field.
My spouse grows orchids. Impressive people, orchid growers, but skewed toward the over 50 age group.
Many athletic activities, especially very competitive sports, are understandably skewed toward younger people.
But the emergence of a generation of young people who don't read books and don't care for intellectual activities, and who can't write their native language fluently, who don't like math, and who can't speak any foreign language at all, is a disquieting prospect. Their lack of interest in astronomy is a symptom of something larger.
Bill Meyers
|
dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
|
|
Quote:
Their lack of interest in astronomy is a symptom of something larger.
YES!
--------------------
Zhumell Z8 Deluxe Dobsonian Reflector
Zhumell 9mm 1.25" EP, Zhumell 30mm WV 2" EP
GSO 2X Barlow
Zhumell 2" Filter Kit (Skyglow, UHC, O-III, Variable Polarity)
Baader Planetarium 2" to 1.25" EP Adapter
|
aa5te
Genial Procrastinator
Reged: 08/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Clinton, TN
|
|
Yeah, I don't get why people aren't interested in something more intellectually stimulating than texting each other all day long using gibberish. Why do you have to be in constant communication with each other all day and night long? It really baffles me. It seems that people are often more worried about positive social interaction and having (and pleasing) a thousand friends than any other aspect of life - not that social interaction and friends are problems in of themselves, but only (or intensely) focusing on these two narrow aspects of life are.
I am a ham radio operator, though, but I don't carry on conversations for fun - my niche in that hobby is simply chasing DX (countries) which means very quick contacts, which is akin (in my mind, at least) to observing new deep sky objects.
I was kind of the odd kid out from the beginning - I didn't like sports, band, or hunting/fishing - and this even irritated my parents a great deal because I didn't want to do what they thought I should do (hunt/fish, mainly). I liked math and science, and got into ham radio at age 13, even though 99.9% of my relatives and acquaintances had no idea what it was. These are probably some of the reasons that I have largely abandoned those that I knew in my youth as well as where I grew up. I was a "dork" by all standards, but that's all right by me!
Now I dabble in astronomy, ham radio, model rocketry, remote control airplanes/vehicles, chess, and computer games (I only play two of them - Diablo II and Starcraft - but I don't play them online).
--------------------
Shane
Binos: Apogee 25x100 / Burgess Optical 25x100 / Pentax 20x60 PCF WP / Tasco InFocus 10x50
Tripods: Sunpak PlatinumPlus Ultra 7500TM / Quickset Samson
Refractors: Meade DS-2102AT-TC 102mm f/7.8; Sears Discoverer 3 (4454) 80mm f/15; Jason 313 Discoverer 60mm f/15.2
Reflectors (Dob): Hardin Optical DSH10 10" f/5
EP's: Zoom: Zhumell 8-24mm & Circle K 7.5-22.5mm 0.965"; 9-52mm Plössls; Zhumell 2x barlow
Kodak Z760; Orion SteadyPix camera mount; Orion LaserMate Deluxe Collimator
|
Darenwh
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Covington, GA
|
|
I actually believe that hobbies like Astronomy and many others are things people do when they are getting older more often than not. The reason has to do with how people change in their lives.
When you are really young you may get interested in a hobby but you loose it when you start to get into High School. This, of course, is due to changing interests. You start noticing the opposite sex more so that takes up alot of your time. You also are looking to what you will do the rest of your life and are busy learning. Combine all that and you really don't get much, if any, time for your hobbies.
As you get out of school you suddenly find yourself thrust into your jobs and starting a family, which usually takes about 15-25 years to get through. During this time money has to be watched closely as you have lots of expenses and only limited earnings.
When you get to the point that you no longer have kids at home and you are saving a decent amount and making a good wage you suddenly find yourself with many things you have not had since being young. Time, Money, and a chance to do things you all ways wanted to do. This is when people suddenly discover the long lost hobbies they did as a young person. This gives people the chance to immerse themselves in that hobby.
Unfotunately, the age this is happening is getting later and later in life due to the way people are waiting longer and longer to retire and working harder and harder to save for that retirement.
The net effect is that the average age people are truly getting interested in the hobby while they have the time and money to persue that interest is getting higher and higher. Because of this, club membership is getting older and everything else that goes with that is getting older.
I do not think it is so much a lack of interest as a problem of too many interests and too much commitment when people are younger keeping people away from this and many other hobbies.
--------------------
Daren
Covington, GA
|
Darenwh
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Covington, GA
|
|
I actually believe that hobbies like Astronomy and many others are things people do when they are getting older more often than not. The reason has to do with how people change in their lives.
When you are really young you may get interested in a hobby but you loose it when you start to get into High School. This, of course, is due to changing interests. You start noticing the opposite sex more so that takes up alot of your time. You also are looking to what you will do the rest of your life and are busy learning. Combine all that and you really don't get much, if any, time for your hobbies.
As you get out of school you suddenly find yourself thrust into your jobs and starting a family, which usually takes about 15-25 years to get through. During this time money has to be watched closely as you have lots of expenses and only limited earnings.
When you get to the point that you no longer have kids at home and you are saving a decent amount and making a good wage you suddenly find yourself with many things you have not had since being young. Time, Money, and a chance to do things you all ways wanted to do. This is when people suddenly discover the long lost hobbies they did as a young person. This gives people the chance to immerse themselves in that hobby.
Unfotunately, the age this is happening is getting later and later in life due to the way people are waiting longer and longer to retire and working harder and harder to save for that retirement.
The net effect is that the average age people are truly getting interested in the hobby while they have the time and money to persue that interest is getting higher and higher. Because of this, club membership is getting older and everything else that goes with that is getting older.
I do not think it is so much a lack of interest as a problem of too many interests and too much commitment when people are younger keeping people away from this and many other hobbies.
--------------------
Daren
Covington, GA
|
Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: Kentucky
|
|
I can relate to aa5te and dVnt on both of their posts. Those were my hobbies too as a kid and even though I am over 40, I can understand fully about the failures of the education system. As well as the quest to be connected, reality TV, facebooking, twittering, etc, the whole mess that it is. I was fortunate because I grew up in a small isolated town with dark skies and only one TV channel, away from the fray of life. I also was blessed to have exceptional teachers and a school system that cared about its goals even though it was a rural school. But now that I work in a school system that is shall we say "failing" you can see the disconnect. Astronomy unfortunately competes with many other "cool things" kids can be doing today.
I remember a time when I was embarassed of my hobby, or to let others know it was my hobby. For me it was always a socially isolating time filled with great happiness at what I was doing. I later came to realize people looked up to me for what I was doing. Today I no longer feel ashamed to be into this hobby, I mean, everyone should have a hobby. This is my thing. Who gives a damn if its nerdy, it's what I enjoy.
--------------------
http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
|
aa5te
Genial Procrastinator
Reged: 08/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Clinton, TN
|
|
The last time I was back in my home town (where my parents live, also in a blue/gray/black dark sky zone), one of my high school friends called me on my wife's cell phone (I turn my cell phone off as soon as I get home from work and leave it in my truck). He asked what I was doing, and I told him I was outside with my telescope. He asked why, and I said something along the lines of "because I find it interesting to look at the universe". His reply was "Is it still there? Is it still there? Is it still there?" My reply was, while he was watching a ball game on TV: "Is the ball still there? Is the ball still there? Is the ball still there?" Our conversation didn't last too long after that.
|
jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 25195
Loc: NE Ohio
|
|
I think that the most important difference between amateur astronomy and other activities such as stamp collecting is that stamp collectors don't appear to think they are better than everybody else. If folks perceive the elitism that I see in this thread, then it's no wonder they don't feel like joining us.
--------------------
John C
Urban Observatory
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
C14
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
CI-700, NJP, GPDX/SS2KPC, CG5-GT
ST-10XME, DSI Pro
|
hfjacinto
Almost got me
Reged: 01/12/09
Posts: 2088
Loc: Union,NJ
|
|
I just turned 40 a couple of months ago, but I have always been interested in Science and Space. When I was in high school I purchased my first scope a Tasco refractor. I couldn't focus on the moon and after a couple of tries I gave up. At this point I started reading and purchased the whole time life series on Astronomy (Voyage through the Universe).
This gave me a deep understanding of how far away and faint these objects are.
When I was 39 (last year) I went with my kids to meet my wife at the local community college and remembered the observatory. I went in and realized they had classes on Friday. I attended one session and looked through a 24" scope at M42 and was hooked. I ordered my SN 6 that night (and also joined the club as a member). After a couple of months and going to Jenny Jump State Park (our dark club site)I wanted a larger scope so I got a 9.25 in March.
I updated my eyepieces as I looked through other eyepieces and found what I like. I have been in the hobby almost a year (since my first meeting was in November 2008). I am more excited when I see something new or something old as when I looked through the scope the first time. Now teaching my kids about the night sky is what I love to do.
Our club has around 200 members and most are older, but there are a lot of college kids that come to our meetings and observing sessions and a core group of us from 39 to 50 have taken on the star party roles, whenever the night is clear we meet at Sperry for impromptu star parties.
--------------------
C9.25 ASGT 9*50 MM Finder,FT Focuser & 2" Diagonal
Meade LXD 75 6 Inch SNT w 9*50 MM Finder
5,6,9,14.5 MM Zhummel Planetary EPs
13,17,21,24,31,36 MM Baader Hyperion
6.7,8.8 MM Meade UWA & 11 MM Nagler T6
Planetary, OIII and Narrowband Filters
Thousand Oaks Dew Control w Kendrick Heaters
|
aa5te
Genial Procrastinator
Reged: 08/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Clinton, TN
|
|
You've got a great point there, and I'm sure that some of my posts came across that way, even though that wasn't my intention nor is it how I feel. I think that most of us don't orally mention these opinions publicly, either, nor do we ask others why they don't do something more along the lines of what we think (or at least perceive) that they should be doing. Thus, we seek those that are like minded and come together (this is true for almost any interest group - sports fans, food connoisseurs, etc.), asking these types of questions and giving our opinions, and this will ultimately get us "labeled" in some form or other, sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not - but perception is often times everything.
|
Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
|
|
As having come from the outside only recently, and being one of the 'young ones' in comparison, I can safely assure you guys that nobody thinks we're arrogant. The people outside this hobby barely know we exist!
--------------------
|
Dr Gonzo
member
Reged: 10/13/09
Posts: 31
Loc: S.E. Pennsylvania
|
|
Quote:
...who don't like math...
Hey, I resemble that remark! 
Regards,
Marshall
--------------------
Orion XT8
Meade ETX-90
Orion 9x50 RACI
Various Plossls
2X Barlow
Lumicon Oxygen III Filter
|
lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1276
Loc: Macomb Michigan
|
|
I’ve been back into astronomy for approximately seven years now. The space program definitely fired my interest in the sciences when I a kid. My interest in science and astronomy has not waned and is now at an even higher level.
Yes the younger kids now have high paced lives, shorter attention spans, the distractions of multi media and video games and other high tech gadgets. They seem to have little interest in the wonders of nature and science. However, when I was 18 to 35 the distractions of career, relationships, starting a family and buying a home precluded having the time or money to entertain an interest in astronomy. For many of us this might just be something we come back to later in life.
“Today...The space age is history...
youngsters do not get excited about space (I do not get excited about, Ipod's etc) so I guess each generation is slightly different...”
Well I’m 51 and I do get excited about Ipods. I love my 5 desktops that I assembled and over clocked, as well as our two laptops. I like my cell phone, mp3, texting and going head to head playing online FPS games with my teenage son. I enjoy all the high tech modern life has to offer and still love being out in the night sitting quietly staring at faint fuzzies. I don’t think the high tech lifestyle of the younger generation is the main problem causing their lack of interest in astronomy.
The space age being history and youngsters not being interested in space, yes I think this is a problem. Today’s space program is uninspiring and overly cautious. It is not something that is going to capture a young persons attention.
I think a huge problem is the runaway light pollution. I grew up in the city and could see more than I could from my suburban yard 10 years ago. Seven years ago I moved to a darker location and got back into astronomy. Today I have already lost 1 magnitude due to encroaching light pollution. Growing up we had a cottage in northern Michigan that ink black skies, today the light pollution is ruining that site also.
Even with a life long love of space and science the LP problem had me considering selling off all my astro gear this year. I once asked my son why he doesn’t come out and view more often. If my father had all this gear when I was a kid I would have been in heave. His answer, to much light, you can’t really see that much.
--------------------
Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
|
dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
|
|
Quote:
I think that the most important difference between amateur astronomy and other activities such as stamp collecting is that stamp collectors don't appear to think they are better than everybody else. If folks perceive the elitism that I see in this thread, then it's no wonder they don't feel like joining us.
I do agree, however, I think this also implies a false dilemma. The value of a person is not based on any one attribute and I don't think there is any use in a worldview such as this. Astronomy doesn't make you a better person, the desire to learn does, and astronomy as an excellent way to spend time learning. I don't judge people for not having an interest in astronomy, I judge them for not having interests at all. Doing what's popular does not qualify as an individual interest in the context which I use the term.
I think there is a hypocrisy, or perhaps more politely, a duality to this idea that I observe in people and truly do not understand. We celebrate men like Bill Gates, people who were "better" than everyone else in a specific context and rose to fame. If your doctor were to tell you that you should stop drinking, would you call that elitist? If a student hands in his math test and the teacher takes marks off incorrect problems, is this elitism? I have seen more of the universe that most people out there, that means something.
Some people know more than others, that is life, I think its best if stop using hierarchical structures to classify us. From where I stand, the the euphemism "elitist" says more about the person making the accusation than the person it was intended to describe.
In response to others: I agree that the distractions of young life do affect participation in astronomy (particularly financial distractions), but as auriga said, "Their lack of interest in astronomy is a symptom of something larger."
--------------------
Zhumell Z8 Deluxe Dobsonian Reflector
Zhumell 9mm 1.25" EP, Zhumell 30mm WV 2" EP
GSO 2X Barlow
Zhumell 2" Filter Kit (Skyglow, UHC, O-III, Variable Polarity)
Baader Planetarium 2" to 1.25" EP Adapter
Edited by dVnt (10/28/09 01:14 PM)
|
94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 707
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
|
|
Quote:
Astronomy doesn't make you a better person, the desire to learn does and astronomy as an excellent way to spend time learning.
Excellent, 100 percent agree with that statement. It comes down to the fact that "most" people have little desire to learn something, or maybe its not a lack of desire to learn, but rather a lack of curiosity overall. I don't just randomly look up information or read random books to gain knowledge, but I have a continuous random curiosity about tons of things. That curosity is what drives me to learn.
Ken
--------------------
Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
|
lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1276
Loc: Macomb Michigan
|
|
Quote:
Excellent, 100 percent agree with that statement. It comes down to the fact that "most" people have little desire to learn something, or maybe its not a lack of desire to learn, but rather a lack of curiosity overall. I don't just randomly look up information or read random books to gain knowledge, but I have a continuous random curiosity about tons of things. That curosity is what drives me to learn.
This is lack of curiosity is something I don't understand. I guess I'm just a 51 year old geek because one thing that bothers me is that life is to short to learn everything I want to understand.
--------------------
Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
|
dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
|
|
In my opinion it's because we (as a society) are regressing into the dark ages where the appeal of blind zeal is more effective than than intellectual debate. Or to put it another way, a loud mouth with a bad idea is given credence over someone meek who has the ability to substantiate their opinion with convincing articulation.
Remember, we are still animals. It seems we haven't transcended canine pack mentality.
--------------------
Zhumell Z8 Deluxe Dobsonian Reflector
Zhumell 9mm 1.25" EP, Zhumell 30mm WV 2" EP
GSO 2X Barlow
Zhumell 2" Filter Kit (Skyglow, UHC, O-III, Variable Polarity)
Baader Planetarium 2" to 1.25" EP Adapter
|
Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: Kentucky
|
|
Quote:
In my opinion it's because we (as a society) are regressing into the dark ages where the appeal of blind zeal is more effective than than intellectual debate. Or to put it another way, a loud mouth with a bad idea is given credence over someone meek who has the ability to substantiate their opinion with convincing articulation.
Remember, we are still animals. It seems we haven't transcended canine pack mentality.
I like the quote "to whom much is given, much is expected." The problem with today's generation in general is that much has been given, much has been taken for granted, and much is expected of everyone else.
If you look at the 40 somethings doing astronomy today who were doing it as kids stop and think about the world they were living in. There was a lot of faith in science to provide the answers, and the universe was a mysterious place. We grew up watching men walk on the moon and seeing sattelites orbiting the Earth as meaning something. We remember life before MTV and when satellite transmissions were uncommon. That kind of world held mystery.
So if you were 22 today, you know what? You didn't even see the first space shuttle disaster, let alone the first shuttle flight. You could almost believe that Project Apollo was a nothing event.
But thats just my take on it.
James
--------------------
http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
|
magic612
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
|
|
Not to totally debunk the whole, "Today's kids are lazy, and it was better in the good old days" (because there's certainly SOME element of truth to that), but let's also go back to the good old days of yesteryear from an amateur astronomer's perspective: Mine.
I was always fascinated by the stars. I loved watching the space program unfold. Yes, I remember watching the first Space Shuttle launch. I wanted to BE an astronaut. My access to a telescope consisted of a $0.25 cardboard tube refractor with a broken tripod leg I found at a tag sale. I was AMAZED at the detail I could see on the Moon with that thing. And what else did I look at? Well, not much else. I knew a few constellations, but it's easy to get disillusioned by a rickety telescope with a broken tripod leg.
So my interest - though active - also had lots of other competing interests: sports, girls, music, movies, etc., etc. So was I interested in astronomy? Yes. Did I actively pursue it when younger? Well, not really, but that's not to say it didn't still hold a place in my heart. I read a lot more about it than I did actual observing. Took Astronomy as one of my sciences in college. Breezed through the class.
Fast forward to age 24 or 25. Newly married, not much money, but enough that I was able to buy my first "real" telescope: A 50mm Meade refractor. NOW I was excited. I used that scope a LOT. Heck, I still have the old thing (not that I use it anymore, except for solar projection). Learned many more constellations. Saw DSO's I'd never seen before. Made up my mind to save for a telescope that - as I sold the idea to my wife - "I could have for the rest of my life."
Bought an 8" SCT. Now THAT has been a great scope for me. And in the past few years, my interest has waxed and waned, depending on kids' activities, my other commitments, etc. But I've learned an enormous amount in the last couple years. Equipment costs are lower now. The used market is a great place to find a lot of equipment for less. Heck, I just picked up a 90mm refractor at Orion for $100 that would have cost over $300 like 10 or 15 years ago (or at least, that's my recollection of what they cost back then).
So, although we complain that the "kids have no patience these days" - and largely that's probably true for many of them - a lot of them will LEARN patience eventually. And that star party where you showed them M42 or M13 or Jupiter or Saturn and they thought, "WOW!" but actually said, "Oh, that's neat...", they'll probably remember that when they are older, and get a telescope to show THEIR kids.
If that wasn't happening, then places like Orion and Astronomics and my local Hobby Lobby wouldn't even bother carrying introductory level scopes that are 60mm, 70mm, and yes, even 50mm in diameter. If there were no market for them, and it was just a bunch of "old fogies" using "better" scopes, no one would stock them, because no one would be buying them.
Small scopes are selling. Interest in astronomy isn't completely dying. As we get older, our perspective on it has changed - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But we DO need to make every effort we can to spark that interest in kids, and work to reduce light pollution too. Otherwise, it really will die.
What have I done, personally? Well, I've offered a view of the Sun (properly filtered, of course) to nearly every teacher of my kids so their class could see the sun. And I write an astronomy column for my local paper (which, even though I write it for free, they don't always include, due to sports crowding it out sometimes). And I'll soon be lobbying my local village board to change from bad lighting fixtures to newer, better efficiency (and full cut off) ones). So I'm doing something to help - whether direct or indirect.
And I think that's the key: Do SOMETHING to help someone else find that spark, so that they too might want to learn more about this great hobby. It may take decades for it to finally start "burning" in them, but considering how long stars live, what's a couple decades? 
Okay, stepping off my soapbox now...
--------------------
- Celestron C8+, Orion 90mm f/10, Orion ST-80, 5" f/8 Dob, 127mm f/9.4 refractor, 114mm f/8 on DS GoTo, 60mm Sears 6333-A, 127mm f4.4 refractor lens (current project), 12" f/5 mirror (future project)
- Orion Vista 10x50s (5 deg), Sears #6207 7x35 (7 deg), Jason #138 Statesman 7x35 (11.5 deg)
Yes, I'm addicted to telescopes and binoculars. I am getting help. Every time I look at the heavens, it helps.
http://www.eyesonthesky.com
|
auriga
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 794
|
|
Quote:
I think that the most important difference between amateur astronomy and other activities such as stamp collecting is that stamp collectors don't appear to think they are better than everybody else. If folks perceive the elitism that I see in this thread, then it's no wonder they don't feel like joining us.
Hello John,
I have a simple mind.I simply don't want us as a society to be working for the Indians and the Chinese, who do value math and science and reading and literacy and knowledge of other languages.
I want us to be able to compete with anybody. Allegations about "elitism" will not prevent me from trying to be free and independent.
If we have to be better at math and science and literacy and languages than our competitors abroad in order to be free and independent, I say, bring it on, I'll give it my best try.
Astronomy is a science hobby. I love it.
Clear skies,
Bill Meyers
|
bobmcg
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 53
|
|
I started in amateur astronomy almost 60 years ago. Those who metion the growth of light pollution are right. When I started out I lived in a contiguous suburb of Chicago and it was often easy to see magnitude 6 stars naked eye. I intended to become a professional astronomer but it was actually not easy to find good small colleges that had undergraduate astronomy programs. I ended up becoming a mathematician. I'd like to make one point that might encourage people. That is that obviously there has been a huge growth in supply of good gear. When I started out the Unitrons were just about the only good refractors available and the most common thing was to make your own 6-inch reflector. Now it seems to me that there is a huge variety of really good equipment available at very reasonable prices for the quality. If interest in the hobby were declining in general it seems to me that there wouldn't be so much telescope equipment being made. So it follows that there must be a lot of people interested enough to buy a telescope. Maybe they aren't interested in joining clubs?
|
scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Kingman, Ks
|
|
As I read this thread, I gain a large smile when a "youngster" has a statement to make. These are the youth that have motovation and an urge learn; they know how to THINK. Someone posted that there is a root cause for today's youth wandering aimlessly about and I agree with dVnt that it is the school system. More money is spent re-sodding the playing field that re-stocking the lab.---And you kids out there (not meaning a relationship with goats); you'all hang in there. I don't care what hobby you have, the point is that you HAVE a hobby.
|
alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Posts: 2611
Loc: Las Vegas
|
|
Lets face it folks... The sciences are just not popular in this day and age. Take, for example, the shelves at a book store like Barns and Noble, or Boarders. You see miles of every kind of topic except science. The Local book stores only have a small 3 ft wide section set aside for all of science put together.
That isn't even considering the fact that the hardcopy written word isn't selling either. Yes the info is there if you look on the web. The Internet has quite a lot to offer the person interested in science, but I would wager that the vast majority of young folks on the web never look at a scientifically oriented topic unless it is to satisfy a homework assignment.
I am not saying that it is all youth. There are some very brite thinkers out there in their youth. I am saying that the number of people interested in science has dwindled. That *is* sad really.
--------------------
Alanon the Wizard (a literary character, not the organization)
Dan
12.5" Obsession #1531
WO 98mm FLT (aluminum tube)
WO ZenithStarII 80mm ED
Coronado PST Ha
|
NerfMonkey
sage
Reged: 06/12/08
Posts: 482
Loc: NE Ohio
|
|
I just turned 18 a few weeks ago and have been observing and reading about astronomy constantly for two years.
I agree with most of the posts in this thread, except for the one about elitism pushing people away from our hobby. That isn't even remotely true; amateur astronomers are some of the most helpful and welcoming people there are.
Although I can't compare my generation to previous ones, I can tell you that most of my peers fit perfectly into the stereotype of dumb teenagers with no interest in learning. Out of the 800 kids in my high school, I have yet to come across one who's truly interested in astronomy, physics or math. Some of them have the intelligence to learn about these subjects, but almost none have the determination to stick with a hobby for more than a few minutes unless it involves sex or drinking.
The local astronomy club is made up almost exclusively of people 40+. The youngest besides me is ~20, and he's the son of one of the members who's maybe 45. I'd say the average age in the club is probably 45-50.
Those of you who have mentioned the failure of schools to promote any kind of interest in sciences and math are exactly right, from what I've seen. When I took astronomy last year (my junior year), it was my least favorite class. In fact I hated it. The teacher not only had little interest in the subject, but insulted our intelligence by pretending to be crazy about it. I'd like to think I'm not the only one who saw through it but unfortunately I probably was. The class consisted of listening to the teacher drone on for forty minutes, followed by ten minutes of problems out of our book that had no meaning or context.
Once in a while we used Starry Night software to answer questions on a worksheet - when I simply answered the questions using my own knowledge rather than wasting time on one of the computers I got chastised for it and accused of copying my answers from someone. Explaining my interest in the topic didn't go over too well. I've honestly never been more *BLEEP* off about anything in my life.
Physics class this year is the same story. But the math teachers seem to be genuinely interested in what they're teaching, and I've enjoyed almost all of the math classes I've taken the last few years.
I was writing an essay for my college applications before logging on here and reading through this thread. The essay is about my passion for astronomy.
|
alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Posts: 2611
Loc: Las Vegas
|
|
Hang in there, NerfMonkey! You are one of the shining examples of people that our country needs. Stay strong in your convictions, and you will accomplish much in your life. It is refreshing to hear of youth like yourself that will ultimately be successful, as demand for the educated scientists of tomorow will be high indeed, and you are among the rare few who will meet that goal.
Edited by alanon (10/28/09 08:10 PM)
|
joelimite
sage
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Fayetteville, AR
|
|
I'm in that weird limbo between young and old (29) and have been observing for about a year and a half now. I'd always been interested in astronomy, but honestly I had no idea what could be seen with an amateur telescope. Five years earlier I was given a department store refractor from someone with well meaning intentions, but I could never get it to work right and eventually sold it in a garage sale. It wasn't until I attended the Powell Observatory in Kansas on a whim with some friends that I got to look through some actual telescopes. Some very friendly (and non-elitist) astronomers there were nice enough to let us look through their gear, and we saw Jupiter, Saturn, and some globular and open clusters. I was utterly shocked by what could be seen and within a month had bought some binoculars and was downloading simple charts off the internet. I soon discovered cloudynights and my interest snowballed. Within six months I had two telescopes and half the Messier objects under my belt.
The moral of this story is that a lot of people are not interested in the hobby because they have never looked through a telescope. That is why it's so important that we give as many people that opportunity as possible. In the General Observing forum, there is a running thread about how many people like to observe alone (myself included). However, I think it's important to include friends and family from time to time in your observing experiences, as you might awaken an interest in someone else, young or old.
Anyways, this has been a really interesting thread. I agree with a lot of the other comments made here as well, particularly those highlighting the anti-intellectual, anti-science fervor that seems to be sweeping the United States. Perhaps a bold new space mission (a trip to Mars) is in order to awaken America's love affair with the night skies? That, and some way to reduce the light pollution that robs the vast majority of people of the stunning views of the skies that our pre-modern ancestors had such easy access to.
--------------------
Orion XT8 Dob w/ Moonlite 2-speed Crayford focuser, Vixen A80MF w/ GSO 2-speed Crayford and Porta Mount
32mm Televue Plossl, 31mm Hyperion Aspheric, 24mm Meade SWA, 17,13,8mm Hyperions, 6,5,4mm TMB Planetary, 5mm Baader Genuine Ortho
Garrett Optical 20x80 UL Binoculars, Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 Binoculars
|
alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Posts: 2611
Loc: Las Vegas
|
|
Quote:
Perhaps a bold new space mission (a trip to Mars) is in order to awaken America's love affair with the night skies?
In my opinion the whole of science would benifit from such an undertaking. Physics, Biology/ medicine, Chemistry, Geology you name it . Such a venture should spawn interests in many disciplines.
--------------------
Alanon the Wizard (a literary character, not the organization)
Dan
12.5" Obsession #1531
WO 98mm FLT (aluminum tube)
WO ZenithStarII 80mm ED
Coronado PST Ha
|
dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
|
|
Quote:
That, and some way to reduce the light pollution that robs the vast majority of people of the stunning views of the skies that our pre-modern ancestors had such easy access to.
Have you read that article about the folks in CA that were calling into various "authorities" to ask if an earthquake had made the stars brighter?
I tried to find it...
--------------------
Zhumell Z8 Deluxe Dobsonian Reflector
Zhumell 9mm 1.25" EP, Zhumell 30mm WV 2" EP
GSO 2X Barlow
Zhumell 2" Filter Kit (Skyglow, UHC, O-III, Variable Polarity)
Baader Planetarium 2" to 1.25" EP Adapter
|
InkDark
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 1837
Loc: Montreal, Canada
|
|
I agree that light pollution and lack of time are probably to blame, but according to me, it isn’t half the story.
Some people have an open mind directed toward certain subjects. Even though your parents might not have been interested in astronomy, it might happen that the first time you look into an astronomy book or documentary, or maybe the first time you get under dark skies, something sparks. I think that imagination abstract thinking and curiosity must be part of the fuel that ignites that spark.
One famous Albert Einstein quote is that “imagination is more important then knowledge”. I believe that he was right – again!
I don’t view astronomy as a hobby (although I respect those that do). Trying to understand the “why” and the “how” does Nature (and life) work or can even exist has nothing to do with playing sports or collecting stamps.
BTW, I’m 31.
--------------------
Jimmy
If you could stop time, for how long would you stop it?
"...since that time, I have not complained about the weather one single time. I’m glad there is weather." – Alan Bean, Apollo 12
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8666
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
|
|
In many cases, one of my favorite sayings rings true: Life is what happens after you make plans.
I've had an interest in the night sky from youth. However, other things took my interests in a different direction; music, sports, work, family and more family.
Fast forward and for my 52nd birthday, my wife bought me a 60mm Meade alt/az refractor. She knew that I'd always thought about getting a telescope, but something got in the way. And the rest, as they say, is history.
And this is part of the reason that many that take up astronomy are older. Things have calmed down, ie, the kids have left the building, and now there really is time for astronomy. Certainly, there are many that have been doing this since their youth and of them, I am envious. But many of us experience similar paths through life and end up on CN.
So you youngsters, I'm 58, try to keep astronomy as part of your life. I wish I had.
David
--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
|
panhard
Mongo
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5200
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm a 20 year old college student who grew up playing Nintendo, and still enjoys playing video games. I also enjoy sketching at the eyepiece and pondering the vast distances and sizes of the small, faint smudges that I observe. Must one activity conflict with the other?
Us old codgers are glad to have you!
Ditto 
--------------------
|
tedbnh
sage
Reged: 11/14/07
Posts: 302
Loc: New Hampshire
|
|
Astronomy has made me feel younger. Partly because I'm hanging around younger people, teaching classes, presenting at libraries and schools, etc. But partly because I spend time looking at things which are billions of years old. On that scale, the percentage change from 50 to 55 doesn't seem quite so bad... :-)
--------------------
Ted
Hampton Beach, NH:
-----------------
Celestron C8 (orange tube), WO ZS 80ED 545/6.8
Orion XT8i + COL 1200/5.9
iOptron Minitower, AT Voyager
Bunch of EPs
Stardust observing chair
"Gladly wolde he lerne, and gladly teche" - Chaucer, Canterbury Tales
|
sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 944
Loc: Ok.
|
|
OK, I'm in the OLD FART group. But I have always been on the school teachers "HATE" list, both with my step kids, grand kids and nieces. I love POing teachers I guess. That started when I was in school. I started with my interest in astronomy when I was 8. I took an astronomy class at night at the local museum. I was the youngest. It was a very basic class. We learned some constillations, and the planets etc. Then when I was a Boy Scout, I did the Astronomy Merit Badge. I learned more then, I got my first binoculars. My folks sailed, and I love history, so I tought myself Celestial Navigation. By the time I got to the Maritime Academy, I knew the bright stars and how to find the planets for taking sights. Now, I got back into astronomy, when I was brushing up on my Celestial Navigation, getting ready for a trans Atlantic crossing on my 30' Bristol. I don't like electronics, they always break down on me. I tought my nieces, and grand kids Celestial Navigation. My grand daughter is 8 now. Her teachers had a fit. I've made all the kids around me, teachers' hate me. I love it. They all can identify a dozen or more constillations, name a dozen or more stars, identify major navigational planets (Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn), they all can do dedreconing, and celestial navigation. They all can do basic algebra and trig. When ever I'm home I have as many of the kids over as I can get. We do physics experiments, math problems, and of corse at night, get out the telescopes. By next year even the 6 yar old will be able to do dedreconing, and celestial navigation. She already can name a number of constillations, and collimate a Newtonian telescope. Her teacher was PO'd when she said that you need more than one lens in a telescope. We even build and fly model rockets. I try and do everything I always wanted to do when I was a kid. The teachers hate when they are asking how to figure the energy available both chemically and atomically from a fuel. Or when the teacher said light travels almost 1 million miles in a year and my grand daughter dissagreed and said it was closer to 6 trillion miles. But then this was the same teacher that said it woundn't matter if the sun got hotter, it wouldn't warm us up because our atmosphere would reflect the heat. and that driving a car would be more likely to kill us all, from the poisenous CO2. I keep trying to get my kids to pull their kids out of school and teach them at home. If I was retired I would teach them. The school teachers get up set that I have them read Jules Vern, and Captain Courageous. I have read Moby Dick and the Leather Stocking Tales to all the kids. AND THE TEACHERS HATE IT. We are all working on learning Spanish now too. They catch on to it faster than me. Get your grandkids, and their friends out at night and get them looking through your scopes. TEACH them. Because the schools sure don't.
--------------------
Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
|
o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: The TV/SV Wolfpack
|
|
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about, Sailor!
+1 on introducing the kids to Ishmael and Natty Bumppo!
--------------------
Kit
'Don’t worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God’s wondrous universe.' - Thomas M Back
|
weezy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 1047
Loc: Colorado, USA
|
|
I've run into that in schools. Daughter and I looked stuff up so she would know the right answer, but to dumb it down for the teacher.
I've always looked up at the sky. My father was a farmer and kept an eye on everything that could affect growing things.
(This was before TV - at least for us)Always read astronomy books, along with geology in school. We have a home built 6" reflector that was such a pain to use that we didn't use it. I finally got to where I could get a telescope and now really enjoy it when the weather permits.
I've found that young children are still very curious about many things. Parents just have to find time and get the inclination to foster that curiousity. Astronomy can still be done naked eye if cost is a factor. So can birdwatching, nature hikes, etc.
Weezy
--------------------
3 cats - 2 ferrets
2 Cockatiels
Orion 120ST
Stellarvue Nighthawk
Stellarvue 102APO
MiniBorg 50
PST
|
ebusinesstutor
sage
Reged: 07/01/09
Posts: 460
Loc: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
|
|
I really wonder why I didn't get a telescope years ago. As a kid, I loved astronomy and often did science projects on it.
No telescope as a kid, but spent many nights around a campfire in dark areas admiring the Milky Way and watching meteors.
Now, I am 49 and got bit by the bug this summer and bought 2 sets of binoculars, 2 scopes and lots of accessories.
Why did I wait? Wasn't money as I have spent more on other hobbies. I guess I was just ready to listen to the voices...
--------------------
Garland Coulson
Orion XT8i Dob & Celestron 80 ED on a Vixen Porta Mount Mini
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Click Zoom & Siebert Observatory 36mm
Siebert Black Knight Binoviewers
SkyWatcher Observing Chair
Celestron Skymaster 15x70mm binos
|
FLYcrash
member
Reged: 08/29/09
Posts: 96
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
|
|
Quote:
Most people I've met or knew in this hobby were like with tons of experience and they are either retired or having a established job, not seeing alot of young people like college students(or me) hanging around in this area. I wonder is there a specific professional program in universities for astronomy and what's the potential job opportunity after graduate.
Haha, I totally understand the "retired or established job" issue. I'm 25. While my parents were wonderful about lots of things (they paid for 11 years of private violin lessons!), it is hard to get into a hobby that requires lots of time AND money like astronomy without disposable income and control over your own schedule. I could never have gotten into my newer hobbies (bicycle mechanics/riding, nice knives, optics for birding and astronomy) while my parents were paying my bills or noticing how I allocate my time.
Secondly, about the career path, professional astronomy may not be what you think it is. I'm a Ph.D. student in physical chemistry and have had many astronomer friends over my time in college and grad school. Many have not looked into the eyepiece of a telescope since they were children. Professional astronomy involves tons of math and physics and tons of work doing instrumentation development, data analysis, and/or theoretical work. In some cases, some of the old school trappings of astronomers - like going nocturnal when you get observatory time - are still evident, but much of the time the work has very little to do with looking into telescopes.
My impression is that the job opportunities with say a Ph.D. in astronomy are good but highly competitive in many cases. I remember a postdoc in my orchestra saying that he applied for a faculty position at a so-so university. There were ~180 applications for one position! Being a professor is more competitive than other sorts of work in the field, but that gives you a sense of the glut of very smart, hard-working people competing for relatively few jobs.
--------------------
Raman
Young, myopic, non-astigmatic eyes; polycarbonate spectacles; Minox HG 8x33, 10x52 binoculars
Orion XT4.5 (114mm, f/8) Dob
Sirius 25mm, 10mm Ploessls; Vixen 17mm LVW; Orion Deluxe 2x barlow
|
FLYcrash
member
Reged: 08/29/09
Posts: 96
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
|
|
Quote:
But I have always been on the school teachers "HATE" list, both with my step kids, grand kids and nieces. I love POing teachers I guess.
Wait a minute! I used to be a high school math teacher, and in no case would a kid's vast knowledge have PO'd me...
--------------------
Raman
Young, myopic, non-astigmatic eyes; polycarbonate spectacles; Minox HG 8x33, 10x52 binoculars
Orion XT4.5 (114mm, f/8) Dob
Sirius 25mm, 10mm Ploessls; Vixen 17mm LVW; Orion Deluxe 2x barlow
|
sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 944
Loc: Ok.
|
|
FLYcrash, these kids aren't even in High School yet. My goal is to have my grand daughter doing calculus by 6th grade. I made a small reflector when I was a Boy Scout. The mirror was made from a piece of scrap glass, Maybe F15 or slower. Never got it silvered, but it worked. Couldn't afford an EP so use one off of a broke bino. When we were kids, even the junk scopes were around $100. Too much money! I'd make a buck or 2 shoveling a driveway and side walk and steps. maybe 2 bucks to cut and trim a yard and weed the flower beds. 25 cents an hour babysitting. Scopes were expensive. Today, after buying 2 Weems and Plath sextants, I seen scopes for under $1000 and thought, gee those sure are cheap, so I bought one. My how things have changed.
--------------------
Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
|
FLYcrash
member
Reged: 08/29/09
Posts: 96
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
|
|
Well, good for you...
Regarding the math, I recommend you get some AMC problems or Math Olympiad problems for your granddaughter. The "Hungarian Problem Book" is also outstanding. My dad also started showing me calculus late in elementary school, but there was nothing to apply it to until school caught up with it, so the knowledge languished. Contest problems, on the other hand, are great for helping kids to think deeply and creatively even about simple ideas.
--------------------
Raman
Young, myopic, non-astigmatic eyes; polycarbonate spectacles; Minox HG 8x33, 10x52 binoculars
Orion XT4.5 (114mm, f/8) Dob
Sirius 25mm, 10mm Ploessls; Vixen 17mm LVW; Orion Deluxe 2x barlow
|
sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 944
Loc: Ok.
|
|
Great, I'll get that book. We use the trig for navigation. I'd love to take them to sea, but their parents (my step kids) wouldn't have it. I sail off shore when I go in OLD sail boats. Their grandma can't go, she gets sea sick. We also use the trig with the physics course I'm doing with them. We are through the mechanics, wave and light chapters, and are starting the fluid chapter now. Still have electricity and relativity to do. We do a lot of problems using limits. And do some area under the curve problems with a slant on economics. These kids (even the 6 yo) could wipe the floor against their teachers on an advanced math test. They catch on to it so easy. Why not make the courses harder untill the students start having problems, then back up and review what they need to go on, instead of doing the same old routine problems over and over untill their grades drop due to being board? The 8 yo wants to work at JPL when she grows up. We do model rockets too, but I always make sure they measure the angle of the apex, time of flight etc. Then we calculate the average velocity, peak velocity, altitude achieved, total time of flight, set and drift (for wind speeds at altitude) etc. I try to make all of what I teach them useful. Oh and the 8 yo can justify a check book too. I was thinking the next books to read to them, either and this is a long one "The Rise and Fall of The Roman Empire", or "Plato's Republic". We've already read Odessious. By 10 I want her to read herself Tale of Two Cities. I just ordered a college astronomy book. Maybe we can start that over Christmas break. I thought after completing the physics course we could start either a meteorology course, or biology. Gotta keep that interest in science brewing. I wish my english skills were better, but I'm working on that so I can make sure they do better than I have. My step kids were older when I met their mom. Yes at 18 and up their interests were just drinking and sex. I don't want that for my grand kids. At least we didn't have any drug problems. Maybe an A&P course would be good with a biology course? Guess I should take this to another forum.
--------------------
Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
|
Corinthian
member
Reged: 05/20/09
Posts: 26
|
|
I dunno how I got into this hobby. I had never owned a telescope and dove head first and bought an LXD75 8" SN. I guess, unlike some folks first experience with telescopes I had a pretty decent setup.
Ofcourse It didnt help that my LXD75 thought it was an ETX125 >:| took me a while to figure out how to update the controller. I think I got from the factory the controller for an ext 125.
That aside, after I took it out and finally got it algined i was hooked. Even though it's not a great scope it still amused me enough to want better and learn more.
I thin that if my first scope was a plastic lense department store special, I would never of cared really.
I'm only 28 I got into this only 2 years ago. I wish my schools here in Minneapolis would of had some kind of astronomy course. I wish that some place some where as a kid someone would of showed me atleast jupiter in a telescope to get me enterested. I feel like I've wasted the last 12 years working as a grunt laborer.
Now I'm enrolling this spring at a local community college for a mathematics degree to transfer to the University of MN and hopefully get a 4 year degree. That is if I dont lose enterest in it. Which I doubt, I get really excited about astronomy. Light pollution doest help me at all but I want to know more and I think I could contribute something.
|
Vic Menard
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: Bradenton, FL
|
|
I've enjoyed this hobby (in quite a variety of ways) for 40+ years. When I joined my first astronomy club (the Southern Cross Astronomical Society), I was one of the few active "youngsters". By nature, I'm gregarious, so I enjoy observing with others--whether at a star party or a school yard. When it comes to the uninitiated, I've found that while the first seed of interest is often there, the personal dedication necessary to maintain and nurture that interest for a year, a decade, or a lifetime is much less common.
If it makes you feel better, it's certainly not a new problem. If you're interested, you can read my musings here
--------------------
|
skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 599
|
|
Hello John,
Quote:
I think that the most important difference between amateur astronomy and other activities such as stamp collecting is that stamp collectors don't appear to think they are better than everybody else. If folks perceive the elitism that I see in this thread, then it's no wonder they don't feel like joining us.
I guess I can see this as well - there is a "sort of tone" that can be taken as such.
That said - it isn't peculiar to this hobby (or profession) though. In my line of work I regularly encounter Oracle DBAs, network administrators and storage administrators on the same integration project team, each of whom believe the universe revolves around their respective areas of expertise, with more than a little disdain for others 
As far as this hobby goes - I do often wonder if some folks even know what the job description of a PROFESSIONAL Astronomer contains, and if so, is it really appropriate to call what we do, be it gawking through our little OTAs, or taking photos (yes, that IS what it amounts to) the amateur version of what the pros do.
For what its worth, I myself do feel weird telling others that I'm an "amateur astronomer" - as a visual observer, I am happy to fall into the "gawking through our little OTAs" category  .
Don't get me wrong, I do recognise the length and breadth of experience of many on CN - in fact I find myself learning something new every day about the equipment I own now, as well as obtain valuable pre-purchase information about future equipment.
But there are the odd few that take this stuff, and themselves, a little too seriously at times.
Regards,
skybsd
|
AstroNewbie
member
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 37
Loc: ON, Canada
|
|
Hey Leo,
There are programs in astronomy and astrophysics.
For example, the University of Toronto has one.
I can think of two people from my undergraduate days
that went on to become what one might consider professional
astronomers. One person did her undergrad degree in
math and physics at U of T and then a PhD in astronomy
at Harvard. She's now work on exoplanets.
Another person did an astronomy and computer science
degree and then a PhD in computer science. He worked
on things like stability of the solar system.
I get the feeling that there isn't much stargazing
in what they do.
Cheers.
--------------------
Comet Catcher
Ancient Celestar 8
|
skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 599
|
|
Indeed.
Regards,
skybsd
|
ebusinesstutor
sage
Reged: 07/01/09
Posts: 460
Loc: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
|
|
Quote:
Hello John,
Quote:
I think that the most important difference between amateur astronomy and other activities such as stamp collecting is that stamp collectors don't appear to think they are better than everybody else. If folks perceive the elitism that I see in this thread, then it's no wonder they don't feel like joining us.
I guess I can see this as well - there is a "sort of tone" that can be taken as such.
That said - it isn't peculiar to this hobby (or profession) though. In my line of work I regularly encounter Oracle DBAs, network administrators and storage administrators on the same integration project team, each of whom believe the universe revolves around their respective areas of expertise, with more than a little disdain for others
As far as this hobby goes - I do often wonder if some folks even know what the job description of a PROFESSIONAL Astronomer contains, and if so, is it really appropriate to call what we do, be it gawking through our little OTAs, or taking photos (yes, that IS what it amounts to) the amateur version of what the pros do.
For what its worth, I myself do feel weird telling others that I'm an "amateur astronomer" - as a visual observer, I am happy to fall into the "gawking through our little OTAs" category .
Don't get me wrong, I do recognise the length and breadth of experience of many on CN - in fact I find myself learning something new every day about the equipment I own now, as well as obtain valuable pre-purchase information about future equipment.
But there are the odd few that take this stuff, and themselves, a little too seriously at times.
Regards,
skybsd
I sometimes find that phrase "amateur astronomer" awkward as well in my case. I am more comfortable with calling myself a stargazer although this is not technically correct as I look at more than stars.
There are some amateur astronomers (many on here) who have amazing knowledge and the title suits them. I know in my case, I love this hobby, but my focus is on enjoying my viewing of the night sky, not on fully mastering the field like a serious astronomer might.
I will certainly share what little I know with others as I feel that is giving back to the people who helped me.
I like to look at birds through my binoculars and I learn about some of them, but I am also not an ornithologist, just a nature lover.
--------------------
Garland Coulson
Orion XT8i Dob & Celestron 80 ED on a Vixen Porta Mount Mini
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Click Zoom & Siebert Observatory 36mm
Siebert Black Knight Binoviewers
SkyWatcher Observing Chair
Celestron Skymaster 15x70mm binos
|
Leo.S
member
Reged: 09/21/09
Posts: 67
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
|
|
Thanks for the info AstroNewbie, I get what you mean, however I think Astronomy for me is pretty much a hobby more than a career, the reason why I started this thread is because I graduated from college and considering to go to an university and switch to a totally different program from where I studied in college(which was International Business) I first thought about Computer Science, but one day I found this could be a potential intresting professional program for me, but now I relize it is difficult to break into the field and really it's for pure science, hard to say it's something that for obtain a regular job for living and neither seeking for advancement in this field in order to make a better quality of life. I guess I will just stick with more realistic stuff in my life and keep astronomy as a great hooby apart from my degree/careers.
--------------------
Telescopes: Celestron Nexstar 8SE, WO Megrez 72ED APO, Orion 9x50 RACI Finder
Eyepieces: 8mm 13mm TV Ethos, 26mm 31mm TV Naglar
Filters: Lumicon 2" Variable Polarizer/2" UHC
Mount: Celestron Nexstar GoTo, CG-5 ASGT
Accessories: Moolite Focuser,2"Dura Bright/2"Quartz WO Diagonals,WO P-Flattner 3,CN16 GPS,NexImage,Starry Night Pro Plus 6.3
|
Randy Spiker
Radioactive Stormchaser
Reged: 01/28/07
Posts: 1819
Loc: Carson City Nv. Elev 4680 feet
|
|
I don't know if this has been mentioned but is it possible that the younger crowd shows little interest because so many urban and suburban areas suffer from major light pollution. If they can't see the stars then what is there for them to be interested in?
--------------------
Vixen ED80sf on a Vixen Portamount
Zhumell 12" The "Beast"
Some premium EPs
A wonderful, understanding Wife, 2 Dogs, lots of backyard Birdies, mag. 6+ skies to the S.E. on a good night.
Strange Universe, may I kiss your breeze,
Your beautiful statement - reaches,
as my wallet empties.
Carson City, Nv.
|
jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 4345
Loc: Petaluma, CA
|
|
Actually, I don't think that astronomy is binary; pros on one hand and "gawkers" on the other. There are a multitude of motivations for looking at the night sky, empirically gathering information being but one of them. To me, the act of observing is one part metaphysics, two parts gnosticism, one part mysticism, three parts aesthetics and a dash of spirituality thrown in.
In fact, whether they think about it in the terms I do or not, I think the things that draw me to visual observing draw many, many others. I also don't think astronomy is unique in this regard. For example, every year hundreds of thousands of folks drive thousands of miles to "see" the Grand Canyon. Why? I don't even think there is such a thing as a professional canyon observer. Okay, perhaps "geologist".
Moreover, I don't think the empirical scientific study of a thing is inherently superior to any other mode of study of that thing. The senses and imagination feed the mind. So, like you, I don't often describe myself as an "amateur astronomer". I prefer "part time transcendental philosopher and shamanistic gnostic, with cosmological leanings."
Regards,
Jim
--------------------
"I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
- Sir Issac Newton
|
Buck
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/29/05
Posts: 572
|
|
I would have to include myself in the "stargazer" catagory. I'm in this hobby purly for my own enjoyment. No science going on here. Sometimes I wonder why there are not more younget folks in the hobby and wonder if it is because of all the light pollution and many of the younger folks have never seen what the sky looks like from a truly dark site. When I was much younger we waited for the school bus to pick us up in the early morning and to pass the time we looked up and tried to find naked eye objects. Pity to think that some day people of earth may not even know what it is like to look up at night and see stars.
Buck
|
FLYcrash
member
Reged: 08/29/09
Posts: 96
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
|
|
Quote:
Thanks for the info AstroNewbie, I get what you mean, however I think Astronomy for me is pretty much a hobby more than a career, the reason why I started this thread is because I graduated from college and considering to go to an university and switch to a totally different program from where I studied in college(which was International Business) I first thought about Computer Science, but one day I found this could be a potential intresting professional program for me, but now I relize it is difficult to break into the field and really it's for pure science, hard to say it's something that for obtain a regular job for living and neither seeking for advancement in this field in order to make a better quality of life. I guess I will just stick with more realistic stuff in my life and keep astronomy as a great hooby apart from my degree/careers.
That's a good choice. Find a career that you like but also that will put food on the table. Best of luck!
--------------------
Raman
Young, myopic, non-astigmatic eyes; polycarbonate spectacles; Minox HG 8x33, 10x52 binoculars
Orion XT4.5 (114mm, f/8) Dob
Sirius 25mm, 10mm Ploessls; Vixen 17mm LVW; Orion Deluxe 2x barlow
|
ebusinesstutor
sage
Reged: 07/01/09
Posts: 460
Loc: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
|
|
I wonder if part of the problem attracting young people is that our most compelling "shows" are only at night?
Other hobbies like music, art, sports can all take place day or night, but youngsters may be tucked in bed when we go out.
Kudos to those people who do outreach at schools, kids groups, sidewalk astronomy, etc. But it would take a lot more time and more volunteers to reach a sizable percentage of people.
Although new to the hobby, I did tell my local astronomy society I would gladly donate my time and scopes to some outreach as long as I could go along with a more experienced star gazer who could handle the tough questions.
--------------------
Garland Coulson
Orion XT8i Dob & Celestron 80 ED on a Vixen Porta Mount Mini
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Click Zoom & Siebert Observatory 36mm
Siebert Black Knight Binoviewers
SkyWatcher Observing Chair
Celestron Skymaster 15x70mm binos
|
cyn1c
journeyman
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Santa Fe
|
|
Hi Leo,
In my personal experience, I have found that there are definitely opportunities, but astronomy is not a lucrative as other fields and you have to be willing to work hard to be competitive. Also working in the field of astronomy can change both the focus and the amount of enjoyment you derive from your hobby.
I am 32 now, but I got into astronomy when I was 16 or so. I dual-majored in it for the first two years of college (where astronomy was part of the physics program) before switching solely to engineering. Before and after changing my major, I was a teaching assistant for the astronomy labs. I really enjoyed the teaching component and as a bonus, I had the keys to the school's 14" Meade SCT observatory to use whenever I wanted. During that time, I also worked summers at JPL and would go to Mauna Kea Observatories to get the data I needed for my project. I then went on to get a PhD in a completely different research field, but I did learn a few things about pursuing a hobby as a career.
For me, amateur astronomy is about enjoying observing and imaging the stars/planets/fuzzies and sharing it with other people. Professional (observational) astronomy is about taking very careful measurements and then performing a lot of mathematical and scientific analysis to prove a scientific theory. You have to write proposals for funding and observing time and will only get a few weeks a year. When you are at the observatory, there are telescope and instrument operators who run the equipment, you just make sure the data looks good and prioritize your targets. After a week of observing, it is not uncommon to then go back to your office and reduce data (flatfields, background subtraction, masking), then analyze the data, and then write reports about it for several months. Then you write more proposals. The end effect for my was to turn my hobby into a job... and when you are spending months analyzing the clouds of Saturn with 88" diameter telescopes, you don't always want to go look at it in your free time on the evenings with your 8" one.
I think it is important to choose a career that you enjoy and hobbies are good starting place. Just be aware that when the hobby turns into a full-time job, it isn't as relaxing anymore (but it can be more satisfying).
Hmmm, come to think of it, that sounds a lot like the differences between dating and marriage too.
|
panhard
Mongo
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5200
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
|
|
Leo. The reasons that I was so enthuastic in trying to help you are as follows.
Your age. We need more young people in the hobby.
You live close to me. I knew that it would not be a big deal to meet you if necessary.
Your location is a tough one for viewing also, darn light pollution.
--------------------
|
mwedel
super member
Reged: 12/16/07
Posts: 183
Loc: Claremont, CA
|
|
I think it's pretty funny how many people are leaping to blame the internet, video games, texting, etc. Twenty years ago none of this stuff existed except video games, and my generation wasn't any more interested in the sky, generally. I keep hearing about the good old days when, apparently, everyone was literate and science obsessed, and I'm wondering if this mythical generation of science whizzes ever existed except through our rose-tinted glasses.
I'm not denying that a lot of kids these days are lost and generally empty-headed, I just question the assertion that things were ever different.
On the other side of the balance sheet, how many people back in the day got interested for a week or a year but quit because they couldn't find information or observing partners easily? Is it just barely possible that things might be better these days because of Wikipedia, free downloadable star maps, astronomy clubs being easily Google-accessible (how do you think I found the two that I'm part of?), and, yes, CN?
Look, I went to a science-and-math high school, got an MS and a PhD, and have been teaching in universities since I got out. My entire friend set is geeks from top to bottom, and I'm the only one among them who observes. I think a small part of it is that people are just wired differently. The population of people who want to look through a telescope once in a while is probably 100 or 1000 times larger than the population of people who want to observe every week. I like hiking and camping but I don't go more than once or twice a year.
I think a much larger part of it is that the general population doesn't know that amateur astronomy exists in the first place, and if they do know, they think it's inaccessible and prohibitively expensive. That was certainly the case for me, and it seems to be the case for most of the non-astronomers that I meet.
So what do we do about it? Plant seeds! When the moon is waxing I take a scope downtown and do some sidewalk astronomy. I usually get 50-100 visitors in an evening, and for a lot of them it's their first look through a telescope. I don't know how many of them are going to go on to become amateur astronomers, either now or years from now, but having seen something through a telescope can't hurt. Knowing that they can get a decent scope for under $200 can't hurt, either--most people think my little Mak cost a grand. If I had to put my finger on it, though, I think that most people think that science is "cool" but also "someone else's job", and that extends to amateur astronomy.
--------------------
Orion XT6 "Shaft"
Little Maks: Orion Apex 90, Celestron orange tube C90, Synta MC90
Edmund Astroscan "Baby Red"
76mm ongoing ATM experiment
Celestron UpClose 10x50
Celestron SkyMaster 15x70
10 Minute Astronomy
|
jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 4345
Loc: Petaluma, CA
|
|
"...I just question the assertion that things were ever different."
Sadly, I think they were different. All one really needs to do is look at university graduation records for US citizens. There has been an undeniable decline in the last forty years in the number of US citizen graduates in engineering. In 1985 there were 300 engineering bachelors degrees per million for US citizens. In 2004 there were only 240 engineering bachelors degrees per million. For engineering Doctoral degrees the numbers are even grimmer. In 1965 15 US citizens per million obtained engineering doctorates. In 2005, just 10 per million received doctorates in engineering. Consider also the fact that the number of engineering jobs today are many, many fold the number in the 60s, 70s and 80s, and I think it's inescapable that the US as a nation has indeed moved out of the golden age of science whizzes into an age of young people whose interests are not scientific, no rose colored glasses needed.
Regards,
Jim
--------------------
"I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
- Sir Issac Newton
|
mwedel
super member
Reged: 12/16/07
Posts: 183
Loc: Claremont, CA
|
|
Sorry, a decline of 1/6 to 1/3 in engineering majors and engineering degrees doesn't have me heading for the hills. For one thing, in 1965 not many people were going into programming. How many potential engineers have been siphoned off by computer science over the past four decades? Let's face it, in 1965 if you were a techie a conventional engineering program was one of the few things going. Now there are a lot more options, most of them involving computers. I'm surprised the declines in traditional engineering haven't been greater just because of that fact alone. No catastrophic dumbing down of civilization needed.
--------------------
Orion XT6 "Shaft"
Little Maks: Orion Apex 90, Celestron orange tube C90, Synta MC90
Edmund Astroscan "Baby Red"
76mm ongoing ATM experiment
Celestron UpClose 10x50
Celestron SkyMaster 15x70
10 Minute Astronomy
|
jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 4345
Loc: Petaluma, CA
|
|
The US is graduating fewer engineers per graduate and per capita than it has in the past. Likewise there have never been more jobs or higher demand for engineers than presently. Normally, you would expect to see the growth in engineering jobs over the decades be mirrored by growth in the number of engineering graduates per capita.
Not only has there been an absolute decline per capita, but also a decline despite there being unprecedented demand. It's common to see declines in per capita graduates in dying fields where employment prospects are likewise in decline. Where employment prospects have never been better, but the graduation trends are in decline, something is broken. The engineering number I quoted also includes computer engineering graduates by the way.
I do believe that there is a correlation between the divergence between demand for engineers and the number of engineers we graduate, and the decline in interest in science-oriented hobbies.
Regards,
Jim
--------------------
"I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
- Sir Issac Newton
|
dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 15042
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
|
|
Tongue partially in cheek... I'd like to see even fewer engineering grads... less competition for my job.
I've been laid off for months with only spots of work coming up with my old company every so often. Other engineering companies around me are also cutting back on hours per week and/or laying off. None of them are hiring. Also, manufacturing facilities closing here and there.
I could probably find some sort of job if I were willing to move to a giant city like Houston, but that's about the last thing I want to do. I'd rather wait out the economic downturn and go back full time where I've already put in 16 years. That way I don't have to uproot my kids from their high school and move them someplace where they don't know a single person. I know, they would survive it, but I would just feel bad about it. People can survive having a leg amputated, but I'm wouldn't to rush into it until it just had to be done.
All in all, I'm sure you are right about needing more science/engineering grads and I don't know how to interest more kids. 
--------------------
- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
|
mwedel
super member
Reged: 12/16/07
Posts: 183
Loc: Claremont, CA
|
|
Quote:
The engineering number I quoted also includes computer engineering graduates by the way.
Ouch. You got me there.
Quote:
I do believe that there is a correlation between the divergence between demand for engineers and the number of engineers we graduate, and the decline in interest in science-oriented hobbies.
Sadly, you're probably right. I just feel compelled to play devil's advocate whenever people start getting down on kids these days. Personally, I doubt that there has ever been a generation of teenagers that didn't mostly have their heads up their--hey, there's the moon!
And, in contrast to what I wrote above, I do have a horrible suspicion that the internet is largely to blame. It's just so darned addictive. Case in point: it's a clear night out, the weather is good, and I'm here on the sofa instead of out observing. 
--------------------
Orion XT6 "Shaft"
Little Maks: Orion Apex 90, Celestron orange tube C90, Synta MC90
Edmund Astroscan "Baby Red"
76mm ongoing ATM experiment
Celestron UpClose 10x50
Celestron SkyMaster 15x70
10 Minute Astronomy
|
ebusinesstutor
sage
Reged: 07/01/09
Posts: 460
Loc: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
|
|
I'm sure every generation thought the next generation was much worse than they were at the same age. I think we get selective memory failure about what we were really like.
My wife and I play and sell Native American flutes. We do a lot of street markets where we demonstrate the flutes so we see a LOT of people.
There are a few teen "twits" but no higher a percentage than adult twits.
Most of the teens that come by ask great questions, are thoughtful, respectful of the instruments and produce good sounds on the flutes quicker than most adults. They are a joy to have at our booth.
Once, while playing our flutes in a park (my wife and I are middle aged) a couple of young men came by dressed in what could be called "punk" style - extreme and what most older folks would sniff at. They stopped while we were playing and asked us a lot of excited questions. We chatted for some time as it turns out they were also musicians.
Once again, the unifying power of a shared interest/hobby cuts across the generational divide.
--------------------
Garland Coulson
Orion XT8i Dob & Celestron 80 ED on a Vixen Porta Mount Mini
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Click Zoom & Siebert Observatory 36mm
Siebert Black Knight Binoviewers
SkyWatcher Observing Chair
Celestron Skymaster 15x70mm binos
|
magic612
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
|
|
Quote:
I do believe that there is a correlation between the divergence between demand for engineers and the number of engineers we graduate, and the decline in interest in science-oriented hobbies.
No doubt there's a correlation. But a correlation can be drawn between my TV watching habits and the strikes pitched by World Series pitchers. That doesn't mean my TV habits have any causal effect on the pitching, though.
Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation. We should be careful when making broad statements without evidence to support the causal effect. Nothing wrong with having opinions of course, but they are just that: Opinions, or at best, anecdotal evidence.
Please don't take this the wrong way; I'm not saying such a causal effect does NOT exist. And to be fair, you did start the sentence with "I do believe..." indicating it's your belief, and not fact.
However, let's look at some context:
Quote:
New Jersey's Courier-Post (3/23, Stilwell) reported that the "demand for engineers is intense in the defense and aerospace sector as a generation of Cold War technical experts is hitting retirement age." The company "predicts it could lose up to half of its work force of 140,000 to retirement over the next decade." The Courier-Post pointed out that U.S. "universities are awarding 2 1/2 times more engineering, math and computer science degrees than they did 40 years ago." However, "defense companies must compete with the likes of Google, Microsoft, General Electric Co., Westinghouse Electric Corp.,...and big automakers for electrical and mechanical engineering graduates." Lockheed Martin, "[h]eadquartered in Bethesda, Md.," intends "to keep the pipeline full of engineers by promoting the study of math and science in elementary schools." Chris Wronsky, director of human resources for Lockheed Martin's Moorestown, Md., division, said, "It's an undisputed fact that the demand for technical people is greater than the supply. That's why we participate in future science and engineering programs, junior achievement, mentoring and internships."
from here: http://engineering.calumet.purdue.edu/engineering/engineering/blooming_engineering_job_market_27_58.html
So we're graduating 2.5 times as many as we did 40 years ago, and yes, it's true, the demand by the technology companies ARE having an effect on the supply, as the demand appears to be far greater than it was. Even if one increases supply, if it is still outstripped due to much greater demand, then yes - there will APPEAR to be a shortfall. But it doesn't mean we're generating fewer engineers. We're just generating more engineers of different types. To wit:
Quote:
In 2005, U.S. universities awarded 196,797 undergraduate and graduate degrees in engineering, math and computer science, according to the Commission on Professionals in Science and Technology. That's up sharply from 77,790 degrees in 1966. But competition for those graduates is more intense than ever.
from here: http://www.seattlepi.com/business/354366_defensedrain10.html
So it would appear we're in better shape than one might assume based on incomplete information. We're graduating more of them. There just happens to be even more competition for them, so the shortfall appears to be acute, when in fact, it's merely a much larger demand outstripping an already larger supply. (Yes, I recognize that's a 2005 stat, and not one of today, be we are discussing a generational difference, not the last four year, right?)
Now, certainly it's possible that the CPST's numbers are suspect, but given that they've been around since 1953, I'm thinking they do their best to be accurate with the numbers they've reported. But I don't know them other than from the Google search I just did, so it's possible their validity could be challenged. (In other words, all of what I've said above may not be entirely true - feel free to challenge it if you've got something that can be verified and has greater credibility.)
But I hope that gives some more context to the discussion.
--------------------
- Celestron C8+, Orion 90mm f/10, Orion ST-80, 5" f/8 Dob, 127mm f/9.4 refractor, 114mm f/8 on DS GoTo, 60mm Sears 6333-A, 127mm f4.4 refractor lens (current project), 12" f/5 mirror (future project)
- Orion Vista 10x50s (5 deg), Sears #6207 7x35 (7 deg), Jason #138 Statesman 7x35 (11.5 deg)
Yes, I'm addicted to telescopes and binoculars. I am getting help. Every time I look at the heavens, it helps.
http://www.eyesonthesky.com
|
sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 944
Loc: Ok.
|
|
No doubt the total number of grads is going up, BUT compared to the total number of students is going down. The total population has doubled 3 times in that same period, so we should see more like 622,320 grads in 2010! Even the number of kids that graduate high school is going down % wise while yes the total number is going up. Yes it WAS different in the late 50's through the 60's. Math and science programs in the schools were all being up graded. The schools and the country were pushing for better education to compete in a Cold War. Nuclear science was crying for students, and then with the Space Race, every kid wanted to be an Astronaut. We all wanted a telescope, BUT the COST! Through the 90's and 00's we have been dumbing down our courses in the schools, the number of kids dropping out of school has been climbing and the number of high school kids going on to colledge has been dropping, by %. If I remember right, 90% of students graduated high school in the 60's and 70's, while today in many cities they are lucky if they can get 50% to graduate, and today all you need to do to graduate, is to attend. Nation wide we have dropped to about a 72% graduation rate for high school. Less than 10% go on to college and that includes colleges that have courses like cashier. In the 70"s it was 30%. When I went to high school we had to take Earth Science, Biology, Chemistry and Physics, as well as a foreign language, History, math went up to beginning Calculus, and of course English. We had to take art and music too. Today, my step kids didn't even get an introduction to Algebra, took no art, no languages, English for only 2 years, and a general science class that spent all it's time on Man Made Global Warming. YES it was different in the past. We were expected to learn, or fail. With d"s and F's and half of his classes skipped my one step son graduated. He can't even read the paper, but he can play video games.
--------------------
Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
|
magic612
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
|
|
Quote:
No doubt the total number of grads is going up, BUT compared to the total number of students is going down. The total population has doubled 3 times in that same period,
Well, in 1960 the United States population was 179,323,175. In the year 2000, it was 281,421,906. That's not exactly a three times doubling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
281 million is an actual increase of 56.9% over the 1960 population. So to extrapolate (by using the closest 40 year census data to the graduation of engineers data), 56.9% more students than 40 years ago would be (if someone wants to estimate the actual years, please feel free):
77,990 / .431 = 180,951
So it would seem, based on actual population, we are currently graduating slightly more, percentage-wise (as per the total population) than we were in the 60's.
Now, if I'm wrong about my ACTUAL numbers, by all means, please correct me with the facts. And we may be graduating fewer students now than before - that I just don't know. I've no evidence to support that one way or the other. But I will say that based on my own anecdotal evidence, my daughters are certainly learning math concepts at least two years earlier than I recall learning them in school 20 years ago. And I grew up in a "better" school district than they are in now.
I don't mind discussing the good old days - I'm certainly in agreement that some things have changed. But if we can ascertain the actual numbers, let's please do that. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but just throwing out numbers because they support what we want to believe doesn't advance the facts and arriving at as accurate a conclusion as we can.
If I'm wrong - please, point out where I am wrong. I'll gladly concede if I'm in error. But I'd rather start with some facts and hard numbers and go from there, and see where it leads us.
--------------------
- Celestron C8+, Orion 90mm f/10, Orion ST-80, 5" f/8 Dob, 127mm f/9.4 refractor, 114mm f/8 on DS GoTo, 60mm Sears 6333-A, 127mm f4.4 refractor lens (current project), 12" f/5 mirror (future project)
- Orion Vista 10x50s (5 deg), Sears #6207 7x35 (7 deg), Jason #138 Statesman 7x35 (11.5 deg)
Yes, I'm addicted to telescopes and binoculars. I am getting help. Every time I look at the heavens, it helps.
http://www.eyesonthesky.com
|
HarryBob
member
Reged: 03/19/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pennsylvania
|
|
Just to throw this out there. I’m a 20 year old college student and I’ve always had an interest in the sky or at least since I was 8 and saw comet Hale Bopp. I must have had an interest before that but I can’t remember for sure. I’m a meteorology student now and I own a telescope. It’s hard to find time to use it but I do whenever I can. I’m not sure that the arguments against young people not having an interest in the sky are valid. Every time I set up my scope on campus I get a bunch of people just passing by stop and ask to take a look and talk to me asking all sorts of questions about what I’m looking at. The really cool part is though even if they don’t stop every person passing by looks up at the sky when they see me. Also when I’m invited to parties in the summer my friends specifically tell me to bring my telescope granted my friends and I are definitely a little odd the people at these parties that I don’t know or never met really enjoy looking at the stars as well. It’s probably just we don’t have a lot of time or money to spend on an expensive hobby coupled with the fact that getting a job in the field is difficult and light pollution makes it more work than it should be. At the astronomy club on campus the first meeting we had 60 people show up when the year before there were only around 15 or 20 members. I remember one new freshman excitedly talking about wanting to build a telescope for a club project. But the thing is after the first two meetings more than half of the new people never returned including the excited freshman. We all are just so busy even if we are interested there are so many other things that we have to do. Sorry if this is off topic I just felt the need to try and contribute.
|
tedbnh
sage
Reged: 11/14/07
Posts: 302
Loc: New Hampshire
|
|
When I'm on the sidewalk with a scope, people often ask if I'm an astronomer. Recently I've started answering, "Yes, an unpaid one." We usually share a laugh, and I think the essence of what I'm trying to say gets communicated.
--------------------
Ted
Hampton Beach, NH:
-----------------
Celestron C8 (orange tube), WO ZS 80ED 545/6.8
Orion XT8i + COL 1200/5.9
iOptron Minitower, AT Voyager
Bunch of EPs
Stardust observing chair
"Gladly wolde he lerne, and gladly teche" - Chaucer, Canterbury Tales
|
monkeygodbob
member
Reged: 05/28/07
Posts: 92
Loc: Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, USA
|
|
Quote:
I'm a 20 year old college student who grew up playing Nintendo, and still enjoys playing video games. I also enjoy sketching at the eyepiece and pondering the vast distances and sizes of the small, faint smudges that I observe. Must one activity conflict with the other?
I'm 20 As well and going to college, And have grown up so far playing Nintendo and various other new age systems. I absolutely love sketching (though horribly) at the eyepiece, general observation and showing others the hobby.
Though as far as other people My age? None except the few friends that seem to enjoy it and talking about it occasionally (though I think it is to amuse me).
Ever one in the club closest to me are at least 30+ Mostly 50+. Nothing wrong with it except for the fact that every one seems to assume I know nothing . But IMO just more knowledge around to gain, And lots of different stories to hear
--------------------
Equipment that I currently have are
4.5" Orion Starblast (dob mount)
6mm and 17mm Explorer eye pieces(pretty much the suck) and a 32mm Orion Plossl and a New (used) 3X Antares 1.25" Barlow, And a New (used) 2X Antares 1.25" Barlow!
Current Savings...$0.00, a Canon PowerShot A560(149.99$).
|
Tim A.
sage
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 238
Loc: 40 30'N 105 3'W
|
|
Quote:
In my opinion it's because we (as a society) are regressing into the dark ages where the appeal of blind zeal is more effective than than intellectual debate.
It may well be, as dvNt and my brother would agree, that we're on a hideous down slope.
I afford myself the probably unwarranted optimism that things eventually and always trend to the better. History has its ups and downs (to say the least), but I hold hope that eventually reason and science will regain ascendancy and humanity will realize even high achievements than we have seen so far.
But I will agree that the schools are failing our children. I owe my success, modest as it is, to my teachers from first grade onward. They always believed I was capable of more, even when my performance on any given day would belie it. Their faith propelled me all the way through graduate school in the theoretical mathematics of computation.
My stepson's experience was, by contrast, horrifying. His graduation from "high" school was, in my private thoughts, a joke; a travesty to the level of education I had attained by then. He had no knowledge of history or mathematics, a totally non-functional command of Spanish, and only a slightly better fluency in English. He didn't know the word "trigonometry", much less its applications. He had not the slightest feel for the sweep of history, much less its effect on the present. He does not lack for native ability, but the system failed him long before I came into his life and could intervene in any meaningful way.
So I take my telescope out to the schools, and I whisper in the ears of the youngsters, "Do you see the ball of stars? Can you count them? No, there are thousands and thousand of them. Each one is a sun like our own. Maybe one has a planet like Earth, where some little girl may be looking this way? Do you think so? What would you tell her about us? What would you ask her?"
And sometimes, the answers drop my jaw.
Youth is, someone said, wasted on the young. It certainly was in my case. Or rather I should say, I was wasted during it. Texting and twittering and all manner of silliness preoccupy today's young men and women. I had my own versions of preoccupations (including the ever-popular sex, drugs, and rock-&-roll), and look how I turned out. Um, wait, don't.
Oh, hell, I don't know much. I know that when I turn my eyes to the night sky, I am given a taste of eternity, a morsel of infinity, and a hint of immortality.
Ptolemy said, long ago, "Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth."
When a boy or girl has an eye at my telescope and utters that soft "... wow ...", my feet no longer touch the earth.
-- Tim
Colorado
--------------------
F/5 12.5" Dob (Starbucket)
Celestron CPC800
Celestron CR-150 HD on CG5-GT
Galileoscope
Oberwerk Deluxe II 20x80 & Ultra 10x50
Celestron Regal LX 8x42 (gone AWOL)
Bio-binoculars 1x6
"Me? Crazy? Oh, yeah. Crazy like an ox!"
|
mwedel
super member
Reged: 12/16/07
Posts: 183
Loc: Claremont, CA
|
|
Quote:
Ptolemy said, long ago, "Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth."
When a boy or girl has an eye at my telescope and utters that soft "... wow ...", my feet no longer touch the earth.
Bravo! A wonderful update to a wonderful quote.
One night I was doing sidewalk astronomy and a group of four teenagers stopped by to look at the moon. The first two had taken their turns at the eyepiece and we were chatting while the third one stepped up. One them asked me why I do this. Right at that moment the third person got her eye to the eyepiece and actually squealed with delight. We all laughed and I said, "That's why."
--------------------
Orion XT6 "Shaft"
Little Maks: Orion Apex 90, Celestron orange tube C90, Synta MC90
Edmund Astroscan "Baby Red"
76mm ongoing ATM experiment
Celestron UpClose 10x50
Celestron SkyMaster 15x70
10 Minute Astronomy
|
scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Kingman, Ks
|
|
That Sailor70623 hit some good nail heads about schools and the courses of today vs. those of the 60's. My kid can't turn a fraction into a decimal point and the local high school senior carhop can't make change for a twenty. Yet the school says math and reading scores have gone UP. I saw parts of this test for High School Juniors. A 50-60's kid in the 8th grade could have passed it. And the teachers of my HS generation (the 60's--yea, I'm an ole geezer) were a heck of alot smarter than those of today.
|
dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
In my opinion it's because we (as a society) are regressing into the dark ages where the appeal of blind zeal is more effective than than intellectual debate.
It may well be, as dvNt and my brother would agree, that we're on a hideous down slope.
I afford myself the probably unwarranted optimism that things eventually and always trend to the better. History has its ups and downs (to say the least), but I hold hope that eventually reason and science will regain ascendancy and humanity will realize even high achievements than we have seen so far.
I suppose it depends on the sampling of time that you choose. If we chose the last hundred years to examine, I'm not so sure your optimism is well placed. If we look at the last thousand then things look a little brighter.
A great variable in this equation is population growth. How many people can fit in a room before everyone stops trying to make sense and just tries to get by? The burst of human population that we see today is unprecedented. I think this cheapens the value and experience of life and ensures a lower intellectual common denominator.
I hate to come off as alarmist, and in hindsight that's what my words look like. I would have been better off saying that there are ideological forces at work in the US that are doing everything they can to return us to the dark ages.
I don't know how many of you know Tim, but I can say that there has never been a more honest and sincere post. I met him elsewhere online (on an intellectual battleground that doesn't even deserve mention) and I suspect the outreaching nature that he describes above is as evident online as it is on his sidewalk. I owe him a great deal.
Regarding education in general, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Let me set some foundation:
I'm the youngest child of two career teachers. My father was in the Airforce for some time before teaching and my mother put herself through college after high school and immediately began teaching. With all due respect to both of them, they're boring people. Their ideal weeknight involves screaming triumphantly at the TV as Fox News confirms all of their righteous indignation. They have no interests, and no passions except their children (which is arguably just a passion to live up to societies expectation). They've both spent 30 years in the education system as teachers and we wonder why there is no relevance in the classroom. It's because by and large teachers are a lower-middle class folk who are suffocating in a bubble of non-reality. In my school district I'd say it's usual that teachers have no real life experience to bring into the classroom except the time they've spent in educational institutions. This is the death of inspiration. They are experts at nothing but jumping through hoops and so that is all our children will ever become. That is what our society will become, a hierarchy of hoop jumping, where ability and skill are irrelevant. Now, of course we can't expect every public school teacher to be advancing research in their field. I don't know what the answer is, but that doesn't mean I can't see the problem.
Please pardon my passionate and assertive language, this obviously strikes close to home with me. I apologize if any of my comments offend.
--------------------
Zhumell Z8 Deluxe Dobsonian Reflector
Zhumell 9mm 1.25" EP, Zhumell 30mm WV 2" EP
GSO 2X Barlow
Zhumell 2" Filter Kit (Skyglow, UHC, O-III, Variable Polarity)
Baader Planetarium 2" to 1.25" EP Adapter
|
aa5te
Genial Procrastinator
Reged: 08/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Clinton, TN
|
|
Very interesting article and video here, this sums up a lot of my feelings on the topic at hand - creativity is being killed by the education system: CNN article & video
--------------------
Shane
Binos: Apogee 25x100 / Burgess Optical 25x100 / Pentax 20x60 PCF WP / Tasco InFocus 10x50
Tripods: Sunpak PlatinumPlus Ultra 7500TM / Quickset Samson
Refractors: Meade DS-2102AT-TC 102mm f/7.8; Sears Discoverer 3 (4454) 80mm f/15; Jason 313 Discoverer 60mm f/15.2
Reflectors (Dob): Hardin Optical DSH10 10" f/5
EP's: Zoom: Zhumell 8-24mm & Circle K 7.5-22.5mm 0.965"; 9-52mm Plössls; Zhumell 2x barlow
Kodak Z760; Orion SteadyPix camera mount; Orion LaserMate Deluxe Collimator
|
lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1276
Loc: Macomb Michigan
|
|
Quote:
Regarding education in general, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Let me set some foundation:
I'm the youngest child of two career teachers. My father was in the Airforce for some time before teaching and my mother put herself through college after high school and immediately began teaching. With all due respect to both of them, they're boring people. Their ideal weeknight involves screaming triumphantly at the TV as Fox News confirms all of their righteous indignation. They have no interests, and no passions except their children (which is arguably just a passion to live up to societies expectation). They've both spent 30 years in the education system as teachers and we wonder why there is no relevance in the classroom. It's because by and large teachers are a lower-middle class folk who are suffocating in a bubble of non-reality. In my school district I'd say it's usual that teachers have no real life experience to bring into the classroom except the time they've spent in educational institutions. This is the death of inspiration. They are experts at nothing but jumping through hoops and so that is all our children will ever become. That is what our society will become, a hierarchy of hoop jumping, where ability and skill are irrelevant. Now, of course we can't expect every public school teacher to be advancing research in their field. I don't know what the answer is, but that doesn't mean I can't see the problem.
Please pardon my passionate and assertive language, this obviously strikes close to home with me. I apologize if any of my comments offend.
You may offend some, but there is truth in what you say. My son is now in his first year of college working his way toward an engineering degree. The high school he attended had a lot more to offer than the school I attended 30+ years ago, including and engineering/architecture program. Only a few instructors truly inspired and exited his passion to learn, some were the instructors of the engineering classes.
These Instructors were all retired engineers (with over a dozen patents between them) that decided to teach the next generation. The stories and experiences they brought to the classroom really inspired the students. They were also very tough and expected the students to work. According to my son the students were somewhat surprised the first week of class when they were handed a list of rules and given a speech regarding behavior in the class. To paraphrase it was along the lines of, “Engineering is a profession and only professional behavior will tolerated in the classroom. If you are not prepared to work hard, follow rules and act like adults, this class is not for you. If you think this will be a blow off class and are not serious you may as well leave now because I will end up removing you anyway”. These guys were tough but were well liked by the students.
Unfortunately, being “outsiders” and not career teachers it seemed they were always butting heads with the school administrators. Some of the administrators thought the program a waste because very females chose to enter the classes, and every year threatened to do away with or cut back the program. The students learned a lot in these classes IMO. By the middle of his sophomore year my son was able to read mechanical drawings and was fluent in both the Autocad and Inventor programs.
To make a long story short, after my son graduated 2 of the 3 teachers couldn’t take it anymore and left, and the classes were severely cut to just a fraction of what was previously offered. I don’t want this to be an indictment of all teachers or schools but just an example of some of the problems that could be affecting students attitudes toward science and engineering.
--------------------
Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
|
skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 599
|
|
Hi,
Seriously folks - what exactly are we doing here on this thread?
So far, we've allocated blame to: -
a] Television shows that we just happen not to understand / like
b] Light pollution - wonder what's the percentage of telescope owners in dark states, by the way?
c] School systems failing to "inspire" kids enough to take up this hobby - funny that these same kids never actually sit there and vegetate their lives away whilst not at school.
Looking at the breadth of evils we've explored throughout this thread, is at all possible that we're all actually in (somewhat) a state of denial over the fact that this hobby, to put it bluntly, is simply unable_to_compete with alternative activities and interests available to the upcoming generations?
Come to think of it., perhaps we may want to ask ourselves..,
"How many of our childhood chums, that grew up with television shows we liked, went to the same school at the same time we did, in that great town we grew up in - with great skies are also in this hobby now?" 
Just a thought.., no harm, no foul intended.
Regards,
skybsd
|
FLYcrash
member
Reged: 08/29/09
Posts: 96
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
|
|
As a person who spent a couple years in front of a high school classroom (and who considers returning there eventually), I'd just like to encourage all of you to take these negative notions about the educational system (which unfortunately are accurate for many teachers and schools) and act on them constructively when you get the chance.
Teacher quality is of utmost importance. Yet how many families these days would encourage their most talented child to pursue a career in education? How many voters would vote to give teachers a professional salary to attract people with the passion and skill to succeed in other fields?
I finished a bachelor's in chemistry with honors from a top school and won two highly competitive federal graduate fellowships that are now paying me to get a Ph.D. in physical chemistry. Many of the people I grew up with, from the socioeconomic and educational elite, view my time in the classroom as a waste of time or, at best, a "break" from "real" ambitions. I disagree. Teaching high school made that bachelor's (and this Ph.D.) seem like a cakewalk. Being a teacher extracted every ounce of strength and expertise I could summon from those experiences. I also view it as the most worthwhile work I've ever done even though it was backbreaking.
Ironically, some of the most sympathetic attitudes I've gotten about teaching (other than from fellow teachers) are from the most disadvantaged. One day, I sat near a bunch of down-and-out elderly men on the train, who told me they grew up in the projects of Chicago. They got very excited when they heard I was a teacher in a low-income high school. They said that teaching their kids was the toughest job in the world and the most important, and that if I ever was in a bind they'd have my back. I wonder what it says about our society when the most respect for teachers comes from people raised in generational poverty, who grew up in the worst schools and with the fewest resources?
I agree that it's sad that teaching is relegated to lower-middle-class folk with few other options, but what will you do to change it?
Just some food for thought. I'll get off the soapbox.
--------------------
Raman
Young, myopic, non-astigmatic eyes; polycarbonate spectacles; Minox HG 8x33, 10x52 binoculars
Orion XT4.5 (114mm, f/8) Dob
Sirius 25mm, 10mm Ploessls; Vixen 17mm LVW; Orion Deluxe 2x barlow
Edited by FLYcrash (11/03/09 03:44 PM)
|
RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
|
|
I'm 20 and studying math & physics...Eventually seeking a PhD in Astrophysics.... There are a few of us
--------------------
Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
|
lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1276
Loc: Macomb Michigan
|
|
How many people here run into others, (friends relatives neighbors ect..) that think this hobby is somehow strange or weird?
A couple of years ago my wife and I and a bunch of neighbors ended up congregating and visiting on a nice warm evening. One neighbor brought up the fact that she wanted to start a petition to have street lights put in. Of course I was horrified at the thought. My wife quickly stated that we would be against it, and I also added that we would fight having lights put in. I explained that we had chosen that sub because we like to be able to view the night sky and that I enjoyed astronomy. The neighbor gave me a strange look and began laughing and acted sort of dismissively. Luckily the idea never went anywhere and we later found out many of the neighbors agreed with me, however most of those just did not want to be taxed for it.
I was still shocked at how many did think this is a strange hobby | | |
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 