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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help
      #1121672 - 08/29/06 11:07 PM

helo people .. im now here ... but i need some help buying a bino.

i was considering Garrett 20x80 or garrett 15x70 or zhummell 20x80 or basrka 30x80.

my questions are:-

As i cannot find any info on zhumells i am most probably cutting them off the list .. but between the other two brands which is better ?

(im basically buying a binocular because i cant afford a 6" or higher telescope or anythin more than 60mm... hence im lookin for a pair of binos which can atleast show me some details of atleast some planets ... i know its not gonna be as good as a telescope because of the low magnification .. but still i want satisfying results and versatality ... i mean i should be able to watch the most objects out of them.)

The Garrett 20x80 are like 179$ and Garrett 15x70 are 129$
so exactly how much of a difference will this make in the actual visual quality and visibility? Could u tell this on the grounds of maybe ... how saturn will look through 15x70 and how will it look through 20x80.

I also need help on the Barsk 30x80 ... i mean is 30x mag of any use ? will it show more details on the planets due to high magnification.. how good are the optics compared to Garret Optic binos ?


i would really appreciate ur help .. as i dont live in the USA so .. i have no Knowledeble people who i can ask around here.

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14686
Loc: Hurricane Alley
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1121725 - 08/29/06 11:34 PM

Welcome to CN.

Planetary work is not a binocular's strength. But, some detail can be seen.

15x70 : Saturn is elongated like an American-football. The rings are not clearly seen, but are suspected as little bulges that stick out from a nearly-stellar disc. The disc is very tiny, will exhibit some flaring (in typical Chinese optics), and overall impression of a creamy yellowish color can be detected.

25x100 : saturn is quite larger and the rings can be seen as seperate from the disc - albeit on a tiny scale and not to the striking extent one expects from seeing telescope views. To me, it looks like a picture of Saturn from an astronomy book, only shrunken down to a size of a pencil eraser held 20 feet away from the eye.

15x70 : Jupiter is seen as a disc, very small, and it will exhibit a generous amount of flaring in the typical Chinese-made binocular. Equatorial bands or other details cannot be seen. A vague hint of coloration is all one can expect. The 4 Galilean moons can be clearly seen as stellar points suspended around the Jovian disc.

25x100 : Jupiter is larger, perhaps the size of a pencil eraser held 15 feet(3m) away. With good seeing, the equatorial cloud bands can be seen as light-pink stripes across the disc. These stripes are not readily apparent and must be looked for to be seen. The 4 Galilean moons are still seen as stellar.

15x70 : Mars is a ruddy-colored stellar point of light.

25x100 : Mars is a ruddy-colored stellar point of light. During last year's close approach, Mars could be seen as a very tiny disc with the slightest hint of brightening at the pole. Do not expect such a view now.

15x70 : Venus is a bright but very tiny disc. Phases can be suspected under good conditions. Expect lots of flaring on this target.

25x100 : Again, a bright, featureless, and small disc. Phases can be seen with relative ease.

All other planets will be seen as stellar points with hints of color (if any).

All of the binoculars you mentioned will require a tripod, monopod, or some kind of support to be fully utilized. Forget trying to handhold a 20x or 30x. Even a 15x is difficult at best to handhold.

If I had to pick from the binos you listed, I would go with the Garrett.

Good luck and clear dark skies...

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #1121804 - 08/30/06 12:09 AM

thank u very much for ur promt reply ...

are u saying that even Garrett optics is chinese ?

and ur saying that 20x80 will be better than 30x80 ?

but what kind of views should i expect from the 20X80 .. u have mentioned 25x100 but not 20x80 .?

Does garret have a better optical quality compared to barska or celestron skymaster 15x70 ...?

the main problem is i dont think i'll be able to to afford the garrett 20x80 cuz my cut off is at 150$ or less ... i was also consider the barsk 30x80 ...

I mean if the 20x80 or 30x80 would really make a difference in the amount of detail compared to 15x70 ... i'd have to think of stretching my budget.

Wut would u say abt the celestron skymaster 15x70 compared to the Garrett 15x70 ?

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1121818 - 08/30/06 12:15 AM

ANd also can i expect to see any details on nebulaes or galaxies ?

ofcourse im not expecting them like they are shown in magazines and books.

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14686
Loc: Hurricane Alley
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1121823 - 08/30/06 12:20 AM

Quote:


are u saying that even Garrett optics is chinese ?





All of the binoculars you mentioned are manufactured in China, re-branded, and then sold by various vendors around the world.

Quote:


As i cannot find any info on zhumells i am most probably cutting them off the list .. but between the other two brands which is better ?





Zhumell is hard to find information on. There are a many people who own Zhumell telescopes here on CN, but not as many binocular owners. Perhaps one can step forward with more info.

Keep in mind, I have never personally used any of the binoculars you list. I am recycling the wisdom and reviews I have read here on CN and elsewhere.

Quote:


and ur saying that 20x80 will be better than 30x80 ?





I have never used either, but I would pick a Garrett over either the Zhumell or Barska.

Quote:


but what kind of views should i expect from the 20X80 .. u have mentioned 25x100 but not 20x80 .?





Views in a 20x80 will be brighter and a little larger than a 15x70, although the increase is not dramatic. A 25x100 would show a brighter image at less magnification than the 30x80. So for a 30x80, consider the image scale to be slightly bigger but the overall image will be dimmer. Exit pupil on a 25x100 is 4mm, on a 30x80 it is less than 3mm.

Quote:


Does garret have a better optical quality compared to barska or celestron skymaster 15x70 ...?





Generally speaking, yes. Garrett binoculars are fully multicoated, where the Barska and Celestron are multicoated with some glass surfaces being single coated MgFl. Other differences may manifest in build quality, quality control, warranty, etc.

Quote:


I mean if the 20x80 or 30x80 would really make a difference in the amount of detail compared to 15x70 ... i'd have to think of stretching my budget.





Just keep in mind that you will have to include a tripod in your budget if you don't already have one. This may cost as much as the binocular. A 15x70 binocular can be mounted on a relatively-cheap and lightweight camera tripod. 20x80's and larger usually require a more robust, and more expensive mount. A 25x100 requires a very robust mount.

Quote:


Wut would u say abt the celestron skymaster 15x70 compared to the Garrett 15x70 ?




Generally speaking, the Garrett is probably the better glass.

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #1121875 - 08/30/06 01:12 AM

""I mean if the 20x80 or 30x80 would really make a difference in the amount of detail compared to 15x70 ... i'd have to think of stretching my budget.""

Will there be a considerable difference ??? in details?

can u recommend any other binos which might be better than the above but in the same price range ??


And wut i still dont understand is ... how much difference would optics quality make in the final image i mean ... for example ... the nikon binos are gonna have real outstanding optics right ??? so if i buy a nikon 10x50 or something .... will it give a better image and detail than a Garrett 20x80 or 15x70 ... i mean are those good brand really worth the money ???

this is the same case for the Barska and Garrett ... garrett has better optics but barska offers 30x magnification .... so will it be able to show me more details on planets and nebulae?

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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patter1
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 597
Loc: Canada
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1121986 - 08/30/06 04:30 AM

Quote:

Will there be a considerable difference ??? in details?



Going from 15x70 to 20x80 will be a noticeable increase in the amount of stars and detail you can see. 30x80 will be even more, but will be considerably dimmer and possibly more chromatic aberration, more difficult to focus, and possibly more likely to go out of collimation.

Quote:

how much difference would optics quality make in the final image i mean ... for example ... the nikon binos are gonna have real outstanding optics right ???



Inexpensive optics from good companies can be good optically. Your best bet is to read reviews and if possible, try before you buy. Often the bigger difference will be mechanically.

Quote:

so if i buy a nikon 10x50 or something .... will it give a better image and detail than a Garrett 20x80 or 15x70 ...



It won't see nearly as much detail and faint stars, but it will have a much wider field of view, and will be hand-holdable, the others won't be very hand-holdable, if at all.

If this will be your first pair of binos, and you're learning the sky, 10x50 is possibly your best bet. Which Nikon 10x50 are you considering? If you already have a smaller pair of binocs and can find many Messier objects, I think 15x70 or 20x80 is your best bet. I'd probably avoid the 30x80s.

Quote:

garrett has better optics but barska offers 30x magnification .... so will it be able to show me more details on planets and nebulae?



If it's okay optically and collimation-wise, you'll likely see more planetary detail with the 30x. But don't expect to see much plantary detail with binocs; you'll probably be disappointed. For nebulae, I think you'll benefit more from the brighter image of the 15x70 or 20x80 than the greater magnification of the 30x80. But that's largely a matter of personal preference.


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: patter1]
      #1122075 - 08/30/06 07:39 AM

EDZ ... please help me on this one ... i see u have have the Garretts urself right ???

i was also wondering ... what would i be able to see with a pair of zoom binos ???

are they good enough .. any sugestion on zoom binos ??

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1122106 - 08/30/06 08:29 AM

I also the oberwerk 15x70s ... which one would u chose ... oberwerk 15x70s or the Garrett 15x70s and WHY????

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
*****

Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1122114 - 08/30/06 08:40 AM

I would not recommend a zoom binocular.

As for what you can see, you will have to read:

Limiting Magnitude

Deep Sky Observing with 70 , 80 and 100mm Binocs

objects with 25 x 100 IF Oberwerks

What can be Seen in Various Sizes Binoculars

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: EdZ]
      #1122139 - 08/30/06 09:04 AM

thanks a lot EDZ .. ur a genius .. excellent research .. i'll see if i can get any low prices on the garrett 20x80 ... or i'll just have to go with 15x70

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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btschumy
Think Astronomy
*****

Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 1110
Loc: Austin, TX, USA
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1122242 - 08/30/06 10:11 AM

Srbhai,

I just want to stress that if you are getting the binoculars primarily for looking at planets, then you are going to be disappointed. I would recommend you get a 80mm refractor or a 6" dob instead. You can probably pick one up relatively cheaply on Astromart or in the Buy and Sell section of Cloudy Nights.

--------------------
Bill Tschumy
Where is M13? Freeware -- Add a new dimension to your observing.


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: btschumy]
      #1122339 - 08/30/06 11:26 AM

actually i live in india. some one is gonna bring theses for me .. i dont think it will be possible to bring a big telescope. so im considersing binos .. and i dont think 80mm telescopes are not much capable of Dso's .

all i want is a compact portable instrument .. that can be usefull for any kind of objects in the space ...

so the only choice is the 20x80 ... cuz 15x70 .. wont be too good on planets ... and some of the star clusters ...

btschummy ... which binos do u own .. could u tell me how much of planetary detail do u see ??

and can there be some kind a substitute for a tripod ... wut can i use to support them ??

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14686
Loc: Hurricane Alley
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1122501 - 08/30/06 01:04 PM

An 80mm scope can view many DSO's and can double for planetary viewing. The problem with planetary viewing and binoculars is lack of sufficient magnification. Planets are bright targets by nature (most of them, except for dwarf-planet Pluto), so aperture is not as important as magnification, generally speaking. 15x, 20x, 25x, or even 30x is of very limited use on planets. All will provide pleasing views of our Moon, but that's about it. What you need is powers in the 50x and up to see much detail on planets. Ideally, around 100x-200x is where the bulk of planetary work is done. People go much higher than that, but atmospheric seeing plays a big role at high magnifications, and on most nights 100-200x is the max usuable power. It sounds like you need a binocular with interchangable eyepieces - that would give you more flexibility. But, such binoculars can be very expensive.

Open star clusters are outstanding in a 15x binocular. In fact, many sprawling clusters like Orion's Belt, Alpha Persei Association, and the Hyades can only be fully appreciated in wide FOV of 3° or more. Orion's Belt is not nearly as interesting in the narrow 2° field of a 25x100 binocular - here, the view in a 15x70 is more pleasing to me. But, on tight compact clusters like M45, the higher magnification of a 25x binocular makes the cluster explode into countless points of light. Here the 25x100 beats the 15x70 easily.

If you are hunting for globular clusters, then binoculars are of less use. With the exception of the brightest globs like M13, you will get the same experience as with planets. 15-30x is just not enough magnification to resolve a globular. All you are going to see is varying degrees of "faint fuzz ball", "moderately-bright fuzz ball", and "bright fuzz ball". You may see some brightening concentrated at the center, but that is it. Globular viewing with binoculars quickly becomes globular detection.

Galaxies can benefit from increased aperture, as they are extended objects and not point sources. But they require really dark skies and magnifications above 15x or 20x to fully appreciate. Galaxy viewing is limited to "detection" rather than observing - unless your skies are very dark, you eyes very keen, and you have sufficient aperture/magnification.

As far as substituting for a tripod - you can put a towel or pillow on top of a vehicle or wall. And then place the binocular on that and look through it, but your ability to view targets at different elevations is limited. You can try propping up your arms on something solid and brace your binocular for a steadier view. Results will be limited though, compared to the stability of a tripod. Magnification plays a role here - the magnification, the harder to hold still. 15x is not too hard, if you brace your arms or the bino on something.

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
*****

Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1122514 - 08/30/06 01:08 PM

Quote:

so the only choice is the 20x80 ... cuz 15x70 .. wont be too good on planets ... and some of the star clusters ...

how much of planetary detail do u see ??

and can there be some kind a substitute for a tripod





Binocular Deep Sky Objects in Groups
a list of 100+ objects in about 40 groups, generally seen in binoculars in groups of two or three together. Like cluster pair M46 and M47 or galaxy three-some M65-M66-NGC3628. Some notes included giving an idea how much binocular it will take to see the targets. Also, some links to charts.


Galaxy and faint cluster hunting on some dark nights
Galaxy Hunting with Big Binoculars


60 Objects in a night with a 20x80 triplet
Open Cluster hunting with 20x80s



Binocular Doubles - List of about 75 Doubles showing magnitudes and separations
While the Trapezium is probably the most famous and decidely one of the most interesting multi-star systems to observe, there are many other double stars that can be observed with binoculars. This list has grown from the original list of 60 to about 80 doubles for binoculars. Some are very challenging even for large 100mm binoculars with variable power eyepieces.

Faint Binocular Doubles
a list of twenty mag 7, 8 and 9 near equal pairs, mostly for 20x80 or larger binoculars. Probably 5-7 for 15x, 12x and 10x binoculars.


AND

A CN Report on Binocular Mounts, Tripods and Mounting Accessories
http://www.cloudynights.com/documents/thoughts.pdf
pick the right tool for the job. Enjoy. edz




edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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coopman
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/23/06
Posts: 1209
Loc: South Louisiana
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: EdZ]
      #1122543 - 08/30/06 01:20 PM

I think that the Zhumell binos. have been reviewed by some of the customers at "binoculars.com"

--------------------
Regards,
Clay

"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalms 19:1


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Zhumell Support
journeyman


Reged: 06/08/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Duluth, MN - New York, NY
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #1122545 - 08/30/06 01:20 PM

Srbhai, if you have any specific features you are looking for, or have any specific questions about the Zhumell binoculars, please let me know and I will be happy to answer them. We are working on improvin the information we have available about our binoculars, but have not been able to keep up with our website and information distribution as well as we would like.

The others in the post have given some great information so far about wht you will be able to see and the points you should consider about the binoculars. Be sure to look over the articles EDZ put up about astronomy with binoculars as they will help you find a binocular to meet your needs. In addition, the articles will help to make sure your expectations are realistic.

Binoculars certainly have their limitations for astronomical viewing, but I still prefer a binocular for most of my viewing. Less setup time = more viewing time.

-Jason

--------------------
Tools:
Prototypes (homebuilt and not yet released)
Samples (astro goods from the world over)
Rebuilds (once broken, now better)
Returns (not pretty but functional)


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: EdZ]
      #1122607 - 08/30/06 01:49 PM

thanks alot guys ... i really appreciate ur help .... thank u very much

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1122712 - 08/30/06 02:32 PM

hi jason .. so ur the owner of zhummel??

well my main question to you will be ... abt the optics ... i mean how much better are they gonna prove in comparison with the Garretts or the Oberwerks.
I know that this might be against ur company policy to directly compare and mention other brands ... but think of it from the customers point of view...

My main aim is when i point them at anything ... i should be getting any flares or blue/yelloe/green spikes comming out .. its really annoying ... my 50mm department store scope does that ... lol

i know that at this price i shouldnt be expecting too much ... but think of it from the point of view of a consumer .. im gonna buy the binos that will be the best bang for the buck and which have the least CA among the 3 listed (including zhumells)

I am no expert in optics ... i have read the reports on the binos ... but i dont understand all the technical stuff ... all i wanted was a one on one coparison between the 3 ... and which one will be the best in optics among them.

I live in India .. my relative is gonna bring the bino for me from the US ... so he wont be able to check them proporly as he is not into astronmy ... so if i recieve a badly colimated or uneven coated or some thing like that kind of a pair ... the i'll be stuck .. as i wont be able to ship it because the shiping will cost a lott.

thats y im looking for binos that are reviewed the best.

on Binoculars.com ... some review had said that the zhumell he recieved had collimation problems ... i think he fixed them .. but i wont be able to do that ...

so please understand my position .. and give me a suggestions please ...

thank you

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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Srbhai
member


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 96
Re: Garrett optics and barska Giants .. help new [Re: Srbhai]
      #1122718 - 08/30/06 02:35 PM

also .. there is no specific .. details on the coatings of the lenses on the zhumells ... the garretts ad oberwerk have specified that they are fmc

--------------------
Equipment:-
10-30X25 Crown ruby Binos.
Canon Rebel Xt/350d
18-55mm Canon lens
Eyes with natural FMC and Transmission coatings


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