Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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How does the new Zhumell 20x80 stack up against the Garrett or Oberwerk ?
Thanks, Bruce
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Bruce,
Going thru listing of 226+ mini reviews at the top of this forum I don't see a single review of Zhumell binos posted. I have been active on this bino forum for nearly three years and have only seen Zhumells mentioned about 1/2 dozen times. Here is another established bino review site but I don't see any Zhumell binos listed either:
http://www.excelsis.com/1.0/section.php?sectionid=21
You may want to posted a link to the specific Zhumell model you are interested in for comments. IMO, you may find a Zhumell 20X80 of "similar" performance to an Oberwerk or Garett Optical with a saving of ~30-$50. But if I am going to keep a pair of bino more than a few years a price difference of $50 would only be a minor factor in my purchasing decision.
Erik D
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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The Zhumell 20x80 SuperGiant Astronomical Binocular $149.00
is the same as
the Anttler Sky Sweeper 20 X 80 binoculars $149.00
This particular binocular is a light weight model, it is not fully multi-coated, it has a wider field of view than the others. Sharpness gives up a bit before the better binoculars. Contrast and total light transmission are less than the better models. The back end of this binocular (from the prisms back) is a duplicate of the old Burgess 20x80 LW.
They are both similar to
the Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80 LW Lightweight Binocular $179.95 ,
except that the Garrett Gemini LW differs in that it is fully multi-coated.
None of the above are similar to
the Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80 TWP Waterproof Binoculars $269.95
which is the same as
the Oberwerk 20x80mm Deluxe II $279.95
The Gemini TWP and Oberwerk Deluxe II are a different class of binocular.
These two are Fully Multi-coated, have a slightly better total light transmission, a bit narrower field of view, are waterproof and have better contrast, have triplet objective lens, weigh in at about 8.5#, (may vary in IF or CF).
edz
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1980
Loc: Florida
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EdZ,
El professor...The Oberwerk 20X80's weighing in at less than 4 lbs seem to be one of a kind. Advertised as fully multi coated. Are these offered under other names or is Oberwerk the sole distributer of these. Thanks in advance and sorry for the thread drift.
Bonco
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Bonco,
I think the 3.6 lb Oberwerk 20X80 LW is the same design as my discontinued Burgess series I 80mm LW:
http://burgessoptical.com/Binos/SeriesI.html
I bought my Burgess 80mm LW in March of 2003 and it remains one of my favorite bino for long range observation. I use it a lot more often than my Orion 20X80 which cost 2.5 times more. I mount it on a Bogen 501 head for astronomy but also use it unmounted(elbows supported)for longe range terrestrial viewing. I can track high flying raptors nearly invisible naked eye. For me binovision feels so much more natural. I have delayed my purchase of higher power, top quality spotting scope for several years....
The Oberwerk 20X80 LW may have better broadband FMC compared to my Burgess LW.
Erik D
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Oberwerk offers about 4 different 20x80s. Erik talks about to the one's I think you reference. I only mentioned the deluxe II. Some are offered under other brands and names.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1980
Loc: Florida
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Erik, Ed,
Thanks,
Looks like the Burgess is the same as it has the same spec's. I have to echo Erik's comments. I find these LW powerful bino's very useful hand held and tripod mounted.
At 3.6 lbs they are comfortable to carry for short hikes and provide excellent closeup wildlife viewing. Scanned the milkyway with them sitting in a chair, hand held and was astonished. A camera tripod is all that is needed for steadier views.
Bonco
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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Zhumell claims that their latest 20x80 is FMC.
Bruce
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Chris Nicholl
super member
Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 117
Loc: Exeter, NH
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Bruce-
I recently sold a pair of Oberwerk 15x70s to a clubmember. We exchanged them in the parking lot, and spent a few minutes looking through them, my Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe IIs, his Zhumell 20x80s, and his Oberwerk 20x80 LWs. I don't recall how the Zhumell 20x80s stacked up against the Obie 15x70s, but against the other 80mm binos it was no comparison. In a world where differences are often subtle, the extent to which the Zhumell's were noticeably dimmer was astounding.
This was only one pair, so I can't comment on them in general, but the difference was substantial.
--------------------
Orion XT10
William Optics 66mm SD
Denkmeier Std - dual arm PowerSwitch
Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe IIs on UA TMount Light
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Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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Chris
Were those an older pair, or the newest Zhumell with fmc and BaK4 prisms ?
Thanks, Bruce
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Zhumell claims that their latest 20x80 is FMC.
Bruce
could you point to where you found that as relates to their 20x80. I could not.
Zhumell Tachyon 25x100 Astronomical Binocular is speced as FMC, but that is pretty much the same as the oberwerk 25x100IF. Zhumell SMRP is $595.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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If one is convinced that Brand G or O are NOT superior to the new model Brand Z w/FMC there is no reason Brand Z should be excluded.
Go for it.
Satisfaction of the PURCHASER is the only thing that matters. The rest of us may never look thru a pair of brand Z. I don't know if I can detect a few % improvement in light transmission efficiency anyway...
I have two pair of 20X80s. Purchased in 2001 & 2003. The new 20X80 IF/WPs from GO and Oberwerk are probably better, but I don't feel an urgent need to replace mine. I am pretty sure the new Signature series 22X85 will out perform either one of my 20x80s but the trade-off is going from a 3.6 lb 20X80 LW to 10 lb bino for a 5mm gain. I can wait.
Erik D
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1980
Loc: Florida
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I sometimes think the advatages of the LW 3.6 lb 20X80's are overlooked when reading comparisons or recommendations. I like the fact that for some use they can be hand held and only a lightweight tripod is needed for steadier views. A very convient, high performance bino.
Bonco
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< I sometimes think the advatages of the LW 3.6 lb 20X80's are overlooked when reading comparisons or recommendations.
You could well be correct there , Bonco .
One thing's for sure though .
It's certainly no fault of ERIK D's if they ARE ! :-)
Clear skies , Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
(20x80LW) A very convient, high performance bino
If the LW 20x80 is fashioned after the Burgess LW, which the Oberwerk is, I would not consider that model of 20x80LW a high performance binocular. In fact of the 5 different 80mm binoculars I've tested, that style ranks only one or two on the list, 5 being the top. In recent tests, the new Oberwerk 15x70 Ultra beat out 2 different 20x80 LW styles, even with both 20x80s operating at full aperture.
There's no question light weight is advantagous, but there is also no question these are not high performance. Buy light weight or buy performance, but you won't be buying both at the same time.
edz
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Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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Zhumell told me that when I called them.
Bruce
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Zhumell told me that when I called them.
Bruce
I would verify that again if you are interested in that model. I'm thinking the only FMC Zhumell is the Tachyon. None of the print materials say otherwise.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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This is from the forum.
Bruce
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Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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Hopefully this will be readable.
Bruce
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I sent Jason at Zhumell a note asking him to comfirm.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Hopefully this will be readable.
Bruce
It's NOT. And it made the scroll bar appear...now it's difficult to read the rest of the threads.
Why don't you delete the unreadable post and provide a link instead? Or just order a pair and save $$...;-))
Erik D
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Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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EdZ,
Thank you.
Bruce
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Bruce
member
Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 40
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Erik D
I attemped to post a link. Sorry if posting some meaningful
information by an incorrect method ruined your afternoon.
Bruce
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1980
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
(20x80LW) A very convient, high performance bino
EDZ sez:
If the LW 20x80 is fashioned after the Burgess LW, which the Oberwerk is, I would not consider that model of 20x80LW a high performance binocular.edz
Well ok. As soon as I hit the send button I knew the high performance would come back to bite me. Let me word it more clearly to reflect my intent.
The 20X80 LW 3.6 bino delivers a lot of performance in a convenient light weight package. Performance, meaning pleasing deep views of dim extended objects, milkyway scanning etc. Obviously $200 bino's are NOT going to deliver the same performance as very expensive bino's. The main point of my response was to express that frequently the beneficial aspect of these LW bino's is not mentioned in discussions and recommendations. For me I'll likely not buy a heavy bino due to the mounting requirements. The optics of the LW serve my needs and I suspect others might enjoy their convenience too.
Bonco
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Obviously $200 bino's are NOT going to deliver the same performance as very expensive bino's. The main point of my response was to express that frequently the beneficial aspect of these LW bino's is not mentioned in discussions and recommendations. For me I'll likely not buy a heavy bino due to the mounting requirements. The optics of the LW serve my needs and I suspect others might enjoy their convenience too. >
Bonco ,
If you , or anyone else , missed the MAIN intention of my last post to this thread , it was MY fault for trying to incorporate a little friendly " IN " humour into the message .
So I'll be blunt this time !
In other words , I TOTALLY AGREE with you !
Regards , Kenny
--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
The 20X80 LW 3.6 bino delivers a lot of performance in a convenient light weight package. Performance, meaning pleasing deep views of dim extended objects, milkyway scanning etc. Obviously $200 bino's are NOT going to deliver the same performance as very expensive bino's. The main point of my response was to express that frequently the beneficial aspect of these LW bino's is not mentioned in discussions and recommendations. Bonco
That's a very fair assessment of that class binocular. And for some folks that's sometimes the right choice to get into the 20x80 size without needing to upgrade everything else.
I've been occasionally using an Anttler Sky Sweeper 20x80 that (i think) is the same as the Zhumell. I guess that depends on what we find out about the coatings. But that Anttler 20x80 is a lot lighter than my GO 20x80 and it can be mounted much lighter.
The Anttler and the Burgess (I own a Burgess LW also) 20x80 are exactly the same from the entire prism housing to the back end of the body. They do use slightly different eyepieces. It pretty much looks like the Anttler and the Zhumell are exactly the same from the prisms forward. They have the same objective housing. So I think these three are all relatively the same binocular (pending coating info). Neither the Anttler nor the Burgess are FMC. But either one can be mounted on an Orion paragon tripod easily.
No, they don't see as deep nor do they have the best contrast, but they still beat out some 15x70s. They don't beat out the new Oberwerk 15x70 Ultra in any measure, but, except for fov and sharpness, they can see deeper than the Oberwerk LER 2003v 15x70. They don't beat out the old Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe, the one that comes in the same housing that looks like the 22x100, but they come closest to that one. The Oberwerk Standard and the Garrett Gemini top off the list.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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EdZ,
I have some more thoughts to share in reponse to BONCO's comments about the 80mm LW. But they have nothing to do with the orginal question comparing Zhumell 20X80 to the latest offering from Garett Optical & Oberwerk. Can we break out this thread about the LW starting with BONCO's comments a few days back?
I don't want to take the dicussion far off the orginal topic.
Erik D
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Well I just added all those comparisons, which is what this thread asked for. I think all these LW binoculars are related, and I've compared the ones I've used to the Oberwerks and the Garrett.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Mike Rapchak
sage
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 450
Loc: Indiana, USA
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From the photo I saw of the Garrett Gemini 25x100s, it's the same bino as the Zhumell Tachyon 25x100 (the carrying cases are also indentical).
The Zhumells can now be had for around $350. Last month I bought a pair; also returned them as I was not satisfied with their optical performance.
Mike Rapchak Jr.
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