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camvan
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what other tripods stand tall?
      #1216798 - 10/25/06 06:02 PM

I've got my eye on the Manfrotto 028, but I'm wondering if there are any others that stand tall? I'd like to buy one that can take a heavier load than the 028 is currently rated for. my brother is good with wood and I'm gonna get him to build a parallelogram (going to use the lightest hardwood he can reasonably find). I'm just worried that the weight of the parallelogram and bino's would push the 028 over it's limit.

thanks!

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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Erik D
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: camvan]
      #1216821 - 10/25/06 06:19 PM

You don't need as much height when you use a parallelO mount. This one will hold 60 lbs and reach 76 inch max ht. Use 5/8-11 mounting stud instead of 3/8-16:

http://bigbinoculars.com/obhdsurv.htm

Tallest tripod in the Manfrotto line is the 161 MK II.(Bogen 3058) It's rated for 44 lbs and can reach 9 ft. Center column travel is less than 10 inches. Not so good with a fluid head and extra long 110mm bino. You'll be paying over $500 CDN just for the tripod:

http://www.adorama.com/BG3058.html?searchinfo=Bogen%203058&item_no=1

IMO there are better choices for bino astronomy than the 3058. Unless you play center for the NBA you don't need a 9 ft tripod. A used QuickSet Samson tripod can be found for about $100 USD. Supports 40 lbs and has 18 inch geared center column.

Erik D


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KennyJ

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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: Erik D]
      #1216827 - 10/25/06 06:21 PM

How did I KNOW that ERIK would be the first to reply to this question ? :-)

Kenny

--------------------
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camvan
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: KennyJ]
      #1216865 - 10/25/06 06:44 PM

when I wrote this, I was thinking Erik would be the first to reply!

thanks for those two recommendations. the reason why I asked for a tall one is because I'd like it to pull double duty, letting us mount a bino on it directly and also being robust enough to handle the weight of a parallelogram, bino's and the needed counter-weight.

btw Erik, if you know where to find a QuickSet Samson for $100, please let me know. I just checked eBay and the two listings are over $300. they come wtih some stuff I no doubt wouldn't need. perhaps you can tell me if the 7201 head is suitable for what we want to use it for?

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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Rusty
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: camvan]
      #1217014 - 10/25/06 08:21 PM

I second Erik's suggestion for the Quickset Samson (can be rated at over 40 lbs., depending on the head). Make sure you get the one with the long elevator, and plan to do some cleaning, lubing, and minor adjustment - every one of the four I've been through needed some TLC; I still have two of them.

This may be useful.

--------------------
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camvan
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: Rusty]
      #1217062 - 10/25/06 08:52 PM

thanks for that link Rusty, now I understand a bit better what this Samson tripod is

as I mentioned tho, finding one for $100 seems problematic

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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Erik D
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: camvan]
      #1217139 - 10/25/06 09:39 PM

Quote:


btw Erik, if you know where to find a QuickSet Samson for $100, please let me know. I just checked eBay and the two listings are over $300. they come wtih some stuff I no doubt wouldn't need. perhaps you can tell me if the 7201 head is suitable for what we want to use it for?




Cam,

I purchased both of mine off auction over a few month period ~2 years back. I am pretty sure neither was more than $100 USD. You need to be patient, look at the photos carefully, make sure nothing is missing, ask questions when in doubt....I may be willing to pay $200 for one in like new condition but usually less. A new set of Samson legs are over $700, the head a few hundred more....It's worth the wait.

QuickSet heads are usually designed to support a horizontal load. The 7201 head may be +/-45 deg only and spring loaded. You can NOT use that kind of head for astronomy. You'll have to figure out a way to attach a 3/8-16 or 5/8-11 mounting bolt to the top of the tripod. Otherwise use the head as a mounting base and drill a 3/8 dia hole to accept a mounting bolt. (QuickSet makes a 3/8-16 adapter plate for their bigger Hercules tripod. I paid $130 for the adapter plate alone. They told me they don't offer an adapter for the Samson)

If you are buying a P mount from Universal Astronomics you may be able to convince Larry P to provide a mounting base adapter matching the OD of the Samson 1.75 inch center column. (My friends UA T mount light Delux supports 16 lbs) Or PM Rusty for more tips....

Erik D

PS. It's a good idea to purchase a little more tripod than your current needs but don't over do it. There is no such thing as a "do it all" tripod. My QuickSet Hercules is rated for 150 lb load. The legs alone are 23 lbs. It will easily handle a 45lb Fujinon 25X150+ counter wts on a P mount....entierly unnecessary for mounting a 16 lb 28X110 bino. I purchased a lighter wt Bogen 3221 WN triopd a year after buying the 028 tripod. I don't usually take my 25X100 on the road. The 3221 WN is a better match for mounting my 20X80 LW.


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camvan
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: Erik D]
      #1217246 - 10/25/06 10:26 PM

thanks again for your reply Eric. here is the particular eBay auction I am looking at. with all the gear it comes with, it's the only one worth considering. it's in Canada already and shipping to me would be about $55.

http://tinyurl.com/yljd55

if it's worth considering seriously, I could probably sell the head separately, or convince the seller to take the head off the package deal. any clue how much a 7201 is worth?

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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Erik D
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: camvan]
      #1217277 - 10/25/06 10:46 PM

Cam,

That's a nice package including the heavy duty carrying case and dolly. I saw the listing before but did not pay much attention to the details becasue of the high starting bid price. It's probably worth $350 if you need ALL the pieces. (I bought a Bogen dolly about 20 years ago but never used it) The head is very nice. Someone may be willing to pay $100 for it but you can never be sure with used equipment during a 1 week auction.....

My advise: Don't get too excited and bid up the price. There will be other opportunites. My first Hercules tripod was $500 for the legs only. I have seen nicer ones WITH a geared head sold for ~$350 later...

Erik D


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camvan
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: Erik D]
      #1217290 - 10/25/06 10:53 PM

no rush now. I pretty much have the money to buy the 028 and the 501. Vistek has it in a combo for $450, which saves me about $30 off the price if I buy them separately. I could get the 501 head for cheaper from KEH, but they don't have the tripod. could do that anyhow and get the nicer black 028, which Vistek has on sale right now for the same price as the silver model.

I wrote the fellow a message, just have to see what he says in reply. the dolly would be nice, but generally unnecessary, I wouldn't use it I don't think. can't remember who said it on CN here, but someone said they have their tripod with two legs extended and one in, leaning in a corner, ready to grab and go outside. I'd do that!

btw, I reviewed the answers in my posts, but I still don't know if there are any reasons to consider the 503 over the 501, other than the maximum load. does it have any other features that would recommend the extra in price?

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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refractory
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: camvan]
      #1217472 - 10/26/06 12:59 AM

I have a Sanford & Davis Model B which stands over 7 feet tall, and can support maybe 40 lb. It isn't geared, though, just a spring inside. Ok for lighter binos, but I'm sure a beast to use with heavier ones since no crank. You can catch these every week or two on *The Bay*. Over in the Classic Scopes discussion (where standards are somewhat lower....) we also talk about Craigslist, which is national but the pages are organized locally, so you can't do a nationwide search. It's a mere listing, not an auction- you have to contact the sellers yourself.

I got my tripods for less than $30 each, and also am looking for something a little more user-friendly than the one I mentioned. Occasionally one sees hefty tripods listed to end in the wee hours on bad user days- nobody else bids. One would think the sellers might have thought of this, but no.

I had the opportunity to buy a 13 foot one-off Quickset model the other day, wish I had but at 7 feet minimum no easy way to store or transport it- would have been great for long-focus refractors- no kneeling or stooping at zenith! It was supposed to be rated for well over 100lb.

Jess Tauber


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camvan
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: refractory]
      #1217480 - 10/26/06 01:03 AM

Quote:

I had the opportunity to buy a 13 foot one-off Quickset model the other day, wish I had but at 7 feet minimum no easy way to store or transport it- would have been great for long-focus refractors- no kneeling or stooping at zenith! It was supposed to be rated for well over 100lb.



WHOA!!!

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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refractory
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Re: what other tripods stand tall? new [Re: camvan]
      #1218293 - 10/26/06 02:06 PM

And it was only $130 bucks. Go figure....

Jess Tauber


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Erik D
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tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: camvan]
      #1218367 - 10/26/06 02:37 PM

Quote:


btw, I reviewed the answers in my posts, but I still don't know if there are any reasons to consider the 503 over the 501, other than the maximum load. does it have any other features that would recommend the extra in price?




Cam,

Which binocular do you plan to mount? The GO Signature 22X85 or the 28X110?

The Bogen 501 and 503 heads are very similar in size, design and apperance. The 503 head is SUPPOSED have better fluid motion than the 501 head. However, I have checked out both side-by-side at trade shows over the last few years. I honestly could NOT tell if the 503 fluid motions are smoother then the 501. Of course these comparisions were made without a big binocular on board. I don't know if the 503 head will exhibit better fluid motion with a 13 lb load. (I have had two Bogen 501s for more than four years, do not own a 503).

Both the 501 and 503 head were listed for max load of ~13.2 lbs in an older Bogen catalog. I noticed Manfrotto web page increased the load rating to 8 kg for the 503 head this year. I don't know if there has been any physical chage to the 503 in 2006 or if Manfrott decided to change the specs because the 503 head has a 2.5 kg balance spring. if you visit the Bogen Imaging (US) web site and check pro video head section the load rating is still listed as 13.2 lbs for the 503:

http://www.bogenimaging.us/

I picked up a new 2006/2007 Manfrotto catalog at the IBC show in Amsterdam last month(Sep 2006). The 503 page lists the wt of 3.6 kg/7.94 lb & max load at 16 kg! That was obviously a mis-print. The Manfrotto rep agreed when I pointed it out to him.

My Bogen 501 head is MAX out with a 13lb load. I feel it works best with a load of 11 lb or less.

I tried calling Bogen Imaging tech support several times between April and Sep of this year. The mail order dealer who sold me my first 501 head 3246 tripod has been listing a Bogen 503 head for about $40 lower than anyone else. ...The only reason I would consider getting a 503 head is for the higher 17.6 lb load rating....I did not want to be stuck with a less capable "old stock" 503 head for the sake of saving $40. I wanted to verify if there has been any physical IMPROVEMENT made to the 503 to increase the load rating, or just a spec change. I Was put on hold or directed to voice mail so many times I finally gave up and purhcased somthing else...

Having a 2.5 kg balance spring in the 503 head will help balance a heavy load. But it doesn't work well if you are mounting a lighter 12X60 or 15X70 for astronomy.. You'll be fighting the spring tension when you want to observe near zenith.....The spring wants to return the head to horizontal when you don't.


Besides the addition of 2.5 kg counter balance spring, the 503 has a Telescoping pan handle.(503 LV) It's 13 inch min, 22.83 inch max. I find this feature quite useful if you are mounting a binocular or scope with long OTA. 501 head and the 503 head uses the same Quick Release plate(501/3433 PL) but the Pan Handles are not interchangeable. They use a differnt size mounting stud.

I HIGHLY recommend anyone purchasing either the 501 or 503 head for binocular astronomy to order the optional 2nd pan hadle at the SAME time.

I don't think either 501 or 503 head is sufficient for mounting a 16 lb 28X110. You will need a much more expensive(~$US530) 516 fluid head for that. Or consider a UA Marco Star mount instead:

http://garettoptical.com/

(look in the mounts and tripods section for UA mounts)

It will hold a 25 lb load. The UA Micro/Marco Star mount design puts the center of gravity at the altitude axis of rotation. That way the OTA is always in balance regardless of elevation. A very simple design and it works!

Erik D

PS. EdZ, Do we have a mini reivew section for tripods and heads?


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EdZModerator
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: Erik D]
      #1218603 - 10/26/06 04:33 PM

No we do not. We have a best of page that has many links.

edz

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camvan
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: EdZ]
      #1218632 - 10/26/06 04:46 PM

thanks for that Erik. I think I'm going to go with the 028 and the 501 for starters. later on, when I can afford to get some heavy duty bino's, I hope to have a good parallelogram built by my woodworking brother. just means I'll have to find a tripod that can handle the load.

tho honestly, I'm thinking of petitioning that fellow with the Samson on ebay if he'd drop the price by $100 and sell the tripod and the rest of the gear to me for $250. cuase then I'd buy it straight across (if of course, he'd let me) and then figure out how to mount the 501 on it. we've got several workshops here that no doubt could machine it for us if needed.

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: EdZ]
      #1218638 - 10/26/06 04:49 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

No need to worry about hieght with a P-mount, and the Manfrotto 501 head performs well with the 10# wieght of my 25x100

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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218662 - 10/26/06 04:59 PM Attachment (14 downloads)

The CST?Berger tripod was $160 w/free shipping from Southern tool.com and holds over 60#. It works great for my P-mount and then extends to 60inches high to the base plate, making it easy to use with the Bogen 501 head.

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camvan
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218663 - 10/26/06 04:59 PM

being how limited I am financially, I don't see a p-mount like that in my future, more like a relatively inexpensive parallelogram built by slave labor (my brother, he's afraid of my whip ).

that's a nice looking setup tho! one of our astro-junkies here express concern that perhaps it would be wiser for me to buy a setup like what you have pictured there, Glider.

the tripod, mount and head probably would still cost substantially more...but I guess I could investigate the options. what other p-mounts are there to consider? I now what Orion offers won't support what I will be going into...

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: camvan]
      #1218671 - 10/26/06 05:02 PM

It only cost me $70 to biuld that P-mount....its a DIY model!

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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218677 - 10/26/06 05:04 PM

Even the adapter mount is homemade....I value my moolah too!

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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218690 - 10/26/06 05:08 PM

Typically, you would not mount a fluid head to a surveyor's tripod. But it looks like you have 4 or 5 additional pieces attached between the Berger and the Bogen head that add the needed 12 inches or so.

Where are those pieces commercially available from and how much do they cost?


I have some similar stuff to that above. The problem I find when mounting a fluid head to a surveyor tripod is the lack of an adjustable elevator crank means you need to have an adjustable seat. Or you just need to crouch to a different height for every different altitude of observation. I did purchase an adjustable observing chair for using my BT100 on a surveyor tripod. I do sometimes use the adjustable chair for some of my other binoculars. But that's a far more expensive proposition than a good elevator shaft tripod with a good fuild head.

Unless you can change seat height, fluid heads on fixed height tripods can be very cumbersome, which is why, typically, it's not recommended.

edz

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camvan
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218694 - 10/26/06 05:10 PM

do you have a blueprint that I could use/borrow?

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218700 - 10/26/06 05:12 PM

A cheap (inexpensive) alternative, heavy duty tripod like that might be worth knocking together.

--------------------
- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: camvan]
      #1218735 - 10/26/06 05:26 PM

The mount consist of (at the bottom or base plate) a 1/4 inch steel plate cut to 6inch round diameter. Then I drilled a 3/4 inch hole in the center and welded a 5/8 nut over the hole(secures plate to surveyor base plate) Then I welded a standard 2 inch steel coupling in the center of the plate. Drilled 3 3/8 hole evenly around the coupling and placed thumbscrews in them. Then I took a 1 1/4 coupling and welded a 2.5 inch round plate on the top of it and drilled a 3/8 hole in the centerand screwed in a 1 1/4 x 6 inch steel nipple into the bottom (this is now your sleeve) Then I screwed a 2inch camlock fitting(thats the aluminuim piece you see in the pic)into the 2inch coupling. Now you can mount the 501 onto the top sleeve and then slide your sleeve into the camlock, it can now swivel or be lock in place with the thumbscrews......Phew The camlock fitting should be found at most big box stores(lowes home depot, Farm&fleet etc)

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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218736 - 10/26/06 05:28 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

heres a closer look....any questions? Id be happy to answer em. EG

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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218749 - 10/26/06 05:32 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Opps Sorry wrong photo, that shows the mount using the P-mount.....but you can see the bottom half, See where the P-mount goes into the 1 1/4 coupling, just weld a small 2.5 inch plate on top of that with a 3/8 hole drilled and tapped into it for the head to mount to.....EG

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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218760 - 10/26/06 05:35 PM

The nice thing about this tripod EDZ is it has quik adjustable legs, so I just grab the camlock fitting and lift the tripod to the desired hieght and quick cam lock it int place... then I twist the thumbscrew on the legs to permenently lock em.

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electra glider
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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218769 - 10/26/06 05:39 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

heres a pic of the P-mount out of its adapter...see how the sleeve stays attached to it and you just slide it into the camlock.

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Re: tripods stand tall/Bogen 503 vs 501 head new [Re: electra glider]
      #1218791 - 10/26/06 05:48 PM