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Phillip Creed
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Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Ohio
25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN
      #1217329 - 10/25/06 11:11 PM

I had to make yet another escape from the Sixth Circle of Astronomical Hades that is Northeast Ohio. Recalcitrant lake-effect clouds had hung around us all day, and it looked like they would cloud out any attempt at Comet C/2006 M4 (SWAN).

As it turned out, they did. We got hosed here in Canton.

Which is why I wasn't in Canton.

I went down to my comet site of chose, Salt Fork State Park, near Cambridge. This is a drive of about one hour from Canton. My only companions were my 25x100s and a pair of Celestron 10x50s. I had monitored satellite loops all day to see whether or not the excursion would be worthwhile and in the end decided to go for launch.

I was just, and I mean JUST, south of the lake-effect cloud canopy. Clouds could be covering up the northern horizon to 5 degrees up or so. Bear in mind, most lake-effect clouds are stratocumulus, so they're usually less than a mile above the ground. This put them maybe 10 miles north of my location, in the vicinity of Newcomerstown and Gnadenhutten.

What can I say about the comet? The recent news about it being in outburst convinced me it was worth an hour's drive, and it did not disappoint in the least. The comet was EASILY visible to the naked-eye. A star chart wasn't necessary, because about 1 degree of the comet's tail was visible to the naked-eye.

The next step was to figure out what the comet's integrated magnitude was. This isn't easy because you can't convert a non-stellar object into a stellar object, but you can in effect do the opposite by defocusing comparison stars. A brief description of these methods can be found here:

http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/icq/ICQMM.html

Standard procedure is to estimate the comet's brightness with the least-powerful instrument that will detect the comet. In this case, since it was obviously brighter than M13, I used just my eyes. OK, I actually used my eyes and my eyeglasses.

In this case, the comet looked VERY condensed (DC = 8), so I used the Brobrovnikoff Method. But how do I defocus something with the naked-eye? I let my glasses do the work by holding them out in front of my head to control the defocusing of the stars. Based on that method, I came up with an integrated magnitude of 4.3 for the comet.

The comet's apperance in the 25x100 Obies was simply stunning. The coma had an overpowering aquamarine tint with a nearly stellar nucleus. The coma's light gradient seemed to be more heavily concentrated towards the nucleus than any comet I've seen since Hyakutake. I saw this last on Saturday night, and it appeared to have DOUBLED in apparent size since then.

Oh, yeah, there was this little eency-weency tail. As in 3.5 degrees of it. That's a field-and-a-half in the 25x100s. What a difference 4 days makes! I could just make out 1.2-degrees of a low-surface brightness ion tail under a mag-7+ sky at Calhoun County Park, WV, this past Saturday night. Tonight, the first 1.5 degrees had unusually-high surface brightness. Overall, it was one of the more beautiful ion tails I have ever seen.

The view didn't disappoint in the 10x50s either, though the discernible tail dropped to about 3 degrees in length. Using the aforementioned Brobronikoff Method, I estimated the integrated magnitude in the 10x50s to be around 4.5, with a 12' coma. The tail in all three cases (both binos and naked-eye) was pointing at PA 035.

Salt Fork is typically good for around a NLM ~ 6.5 or so on a good night. I'd be curious to see how others in darker skies fared. And be prepared for another major outburst in the next few days. I say that because it'll be solid clouds the next three days around here But for the meantime, I could at least take satisfaction that, at least for this round, Lake Erie lost. Which goes to show you one thing:

In Arizona, the most important instrument is one's scope.
In NE Ohio, the most important instrument is one's car.

Clear Skies,
Phil

--------------------
"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"

Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
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Jacob
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Reged: 09/30/06
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #1217379 - 10/25/06 11:42 PM

Phil,

That sounds like an awesome trip, lots of fun! I had a chance to look at SWAN through some 5 inch navy ship binoculars on Sunday from a very good dark sky location. I don't know what the power or field of view were for the binoculars, but I definitely want a pair of them after everything I saw!

I agree with you that the comet was stunning!

--------------------
Jacob Campbell


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Glassthrower
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Jacob]
      #1217443 - 10/26/06 12:24 AM



I'm green with envy. Nice job and great report. Thanks for sharing it. My view of the western sky is terrible - huge bright light dome, several large trees, street lights, power lines, the usual urban jungle. I can't see squat to the west, except right near the zenith.

Phil, I forget, what do you have those Obies mounted on?

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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edwincjones
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #1217655 - 10/26/06 06:09 AM

Jacob,

Can you tell us more about the 5" Navy ship binoculars?

edj

--------------------

n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy



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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
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Posts: 1033
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #1217728 - 10/26/06 08:18 AM

Quote:



Phil, I forget, what do you have those Obies mounted on?

Clear dark skies...

MikeG




Mike,

They're mounted on something that could be improved upon. It's on a surveryor's tripod and Unimount Basic Mount. It does the job but I have to wait about 5 seconds for vibrations to die down. I just had the necessary spousal approval for the set up as it was, so upgrading simply isn't an option for the time being.

Clear Skies,
Phil

--------------------
"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"

Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****


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Jacob
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Posts: 172
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: edwincjones]
      #1218097 - 10/26/06 12:02 PM

Quote:


Can you tell us more about the 5" Navy ship binoculars?




I wish I knew more about them, but I'm happy to share what I do know.

I was at Pine Mountain Observatory this weekend and they were in the warm room of one of the observatory domes. They were extremely heavy, probably with the fork mount around 100 pounds (just a rough guess). The fork mount was mounted to a regular table with 4 legs. Not the best for stability, but it worked and supported the weight well. The binoculars were, I think, 20 power, and had 5 inch objectives. They had controls for interpupilary distance and had focus control for each eye. The finder was an open site, just a ring near the back and a post in the front, you line up the post in the center of the ring and put it on the object to view. Very sensitive to parallax error (I think that's what its called) but with the huge field of view in these things you don't really need an exact finder. It was very easy to get things in view.

I was so impressed by them that I spent several hours hunting down globulars and open clusters, looking at galaxies, and just surfing around the rich milky-way star fields with these binoculars.

If you have any specific questions I'd definitely try to answer them, to the extent I can.
-Jacob

--------------------
Jacob Campbell


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Erik D
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Re: 20X127mm Navy Binoculars new [Re: Jacob]
      #1218212 - 10/26/06 01:14 PM

Jacob,

Thanks for that. Based on your description, I think you can get pretty close with a pair like this:

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=217

4.724 in aperature, 3 deg FOV

Erik D


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brentwood
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 637
Loc: BC Canada
Re: 20X127mm Navy Binoculars new [Re: Erik D]
      #1218315 - 10/26/06 02:15 PM

I did the tourist tour of a visiting US navy destroyer a few years ago. I had looked through 'Big Eyes' before, but this time I wanted to find out more about them. I had tried asking some of the crew and officers before, you'd have thought I was talking in Albanian!
I concealed a small ruler in my hand, and as the tour was about to leave the Bridge, I measured the LENS diameter & the exit pupil. They were, according to my crude measurement, 20x120, and they were made by Litton Systems.
I don't know how I would have explained myself had I been 'caught'!

--------------------
Big telescope.Small telescopes.
Ridiculous binocular collection
I've cut it twice and it's still too short.


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Erik D
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20X120 Big Eye new [Re: brentwood]
      #1218540 - 10/26/06 04:06 PM

Brentwood,

Did they look like this:

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/es/eos/PDF_Data_Sheets/Bigeye.pdf

They have nice 70 deg APFOV but max elevation is only +60 deg. Will be tough to track MiGs overhead with that.

Erik D


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Dave M
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #1218574 - 10/26/06 04:19 PM

Excellent! report Phil, and congrats on bagging another
view.
I wish i had went along...

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM





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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
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Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Ohio
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Dave M]
      #1218640 - 10/26/06 04:50 PM

Dave,

Unfortunately, it looks like the next best chance would be Sunday night. Moonlight will start becoming an issue in the next few days, with first quarter coming this weekend. Knowing the upcoming forecast was another reason I decided to roll the dice and make the hour-long drive to Salt Fork.

If the tail is anything on Sunday night as it is now, you won't have ANY problem getting a good image. Put it this way--if you want pictures, and it holds steady around 4 to 4.5, I'd prepare myself for a drive longer than Salt Fork if need be. It's worth it, believe me, to see this baby from a dark sky.

Clear Skies,
Phil

Clear Skies,
Phil

--------------------
"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"

Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****


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brentwood
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 637
Loc: BC Canada
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #1218709 - 10/26/06 05:17 PM

Erik D, thanks very much for posting that. That could have been them, maybe I saw the Litton Systems set on a Canadian warship. What was surprising though is that the set on the other side of the bridge was way out of alignment, each barrel looked at a different compass point!.
I did use some Big Eyes from a Canadian ship at night while in port. The view of M42 was spectacular!

--------------------
Big telescope.Small telescopes.
Ridiculous binocular collection
I've cut it twice and it's still too short.


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
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Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Ohio
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: brentwood]
      #1219019 - 10/26/06 07:28 PM

Just the mere thought of M42 in 120mm binos .... ...

Clear Skies,
Phil

--------------------
"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"

Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****


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EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: Phillip Creed]
      #1219091 - 10/26/06 08:01 PM

Just got my first view of comet SWAN. Using my 25x100s. I'd say just slightly more than 1° WNW of the wide pair 20-21 CrB. It makes a perfect triangle with 20-21 and 17 CrB. Only 5 minutes of view thru a sucker hole in very dense cloud cover. It's very bright. I do believe I saw a hint of a tail pointing up to right. That would put the tail at about PA 20 to 30. I'm hoping for a few more views tonight. Next two nights are supposed to be stormy.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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mplkn1
sage


Reged: 08/28/05
Posts: 393
Loc: Centrally Inaccessible, PA
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: EdZ]
      #1219198 - 10/26/06 09:00 PM

Yup -

A very inspiring thread - I went out just now but got zorched again by the cloud cover over central PA. Had a few of those sucker holes, and some of those frustratingly thin spots you can aaaalllmost see through, but the prevailing breezes were moving them all in the wrong direction and what was coming behind wasn't encouraging.

Might sneak out again a few times more tonight to see if anything's changed...

May we all have the chance to get a good look!

Thanks for the thread and best wishes,

--------------------
Michael -

"I am obliged to confess that I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University."
William F. Buckley, 1963.

Orion (Celestron) 8" SCT on SkyView Pro, Telrad.
Garrett Optical Gemini 25x100 WP IF,
Bogen 3051 tripod w/ 3063 head.
Oberwerk 10x60 Mariner.
Palm Planetarium.
Stellarium on a Motion Computing tablet PC.


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Les
professor emeritus
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Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 666
Loc: Maryland
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: brentwood]
      #1219223 - 10/26/06 09:14 PM

The Litton ship yards build ships. Northrop Grumman now owns them. Litton could very well have bought the Nikon optics that you saw and branded them as Litton. Or they could have been Litton contracted optics. No one knows

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
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Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Ohio
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: EdZ]
      #1219255 - 10/26/06 09:28 PM

Ed, Mike,

I just snuck a peak at the 18Z run of the GFS model:

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/

It looks like the best bet for both of you is Sunday night, as it stands right now. Because the time change will have already taken place, the comet will be well-placed for observing by 7 p.m.

In Mike's case, if you're near State College or those whereabouts, I hope you have a site that's EAST of the spine of the Appalachians, as departing cold-air aloft could still be generating low clouds off the Great Lakes.

Clear Skies,
Phil

--------------------
"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"

Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****


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EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
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Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: mplkn1]
      #1219273 - 10/26/06 09:34 PM

I managed to get a good 20 minutes period of clear. M13 is sitting just 5° NE. Comparison to M13 shows SWAN considerably brighter towards the center and maybe just a little larger. Again I thought I could just see a little nub of extension up. Also thought I saw a little nub sticking out at 90° from that, to the right, or NW, aprox PA 300. Was that imagination?

Certainly appears it was imagined. I just checked a few photos. There's nothing there to the right.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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mplkn1
sage


Reged: 08/28/05
Posts: 393
Loc: Centrally Inaccessible, PA
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: EdZ]
      #1219431 - 10/26/06 10:42 PM

Phil -

Thanks - yes, I'm in SCE proper. I've got a fine view from a 300 acre patch of undeveloped land adjacent to my backyard - just have to trek out into it to find a swell where I can go that low in the western sky. Failing that, there's a city park about a mile away that's kind of a hangout for local club guys. Its view to the south (and maybe west) might be cleaner than from the field behind our house.

If I'm looking at my several planetarium packages correctly, on Sunday night Comet SWAN should be right in the lower part of the Hercules trapezoid.

One way t'other, I'm going to check this out. Thanks for looking into the forecasts - by Sunday night I should have my hands on a known reputable pair of GO 25x100s, purchased from a fellow list frequenter who recently needed to lighten his gear inventory to make room for a new GO GT-100 binoscope.

It'd be nice to take in Comet SWAN for my first light. The stuff of dreams - ah well, we shall see...

Thanks again, I appreciate your thoughfulness!

--------------------
Michael -

"I am obliged to confess that I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University."
William F. Buckley, 1963.

Orion (Celestron) 8" SCT on SkyView Pro, Telrad.
Garrett Optical Gemini 25x100 WP IF,
Bogen 3051 tripod w/ 3063 head.
Oberwerk 10x60 Mariner.
Palm Planetarium.
Stellarium on a Motion Computing tablet PC.


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Loc: Hurricane Alley
Re: 25x100 Dark-Sky View of Comet SWAN new [Re: mplkn1]
      #1219505 - 10/26/06 11:12 PM

Nothing but solid cloud deck outside tonight. No "sucker holes" for me.

Phil, I have a trip to the dark site tentatively planned for sunday evening/night. My friend Dave is going to bring his 12" dob. It schedules and weather permit, it might be a fruitful evening. How much will the moon be interfering by then? I'm feeling too lazy at the moment to boot-up Starry Nights.

BTW Mike, good luck on your new GO 25x100. It should prove to be quite a comet catcher.

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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