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Mike Rapchak
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Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binoculars
      #1332058 - 12/31/06 02:10 AM

Hello,

Last month I reported on my new Vixen ARK 12x80 binoculars. I have since traded this wonderful instrument on a 16x80 pair (as good as the 12's are, with their 6.7mm exit pupil and my horrible NW Indiana skies I felt that a higher-power/smaller-exit-pupil model might better suffice).

I received the 16x80s yesterday (Fri. 12/29). Of course the "Cloudy Skies" curse immediately struck, waiting until sundown to get really nasty - an ugly cloud cover that hung overhead until tonight (not totally dissapating even to this moment).

However, sky conditions ended up at least marginally (desperately?) clear to where some stars were visible.

I debated posting this extremely cursory report since there really wasn't much to view. It was the performance of these binoculars that inspired me to do so anyway.

Compared to the 12x80s there wasn't a lot of difference - beautiful images of stars, well-defined and focused. The difference was, for one, in the image size. I know that a lot of folks prefer 20x, but from what I saw tonight I have no arguments against 16x. Afterall, binoculars aren't telescopes, and to me a wide FOV is desirable - that and minimum (but useful) magnificaton. IMO this pair of 16x80s more than satisfies both criteria.

With its smaller 5mm exit pupil (re the 12's 6.7mm) conrtast was improved - enough to where the difference was noticeable. Star images were delightful - sharp and bright enough yet no real hint of CA, spiking, or other aberrations (the #1 target star was Sirius!). I checked for edge-of-field distortion/light drop-off and, yes, they're there - but they're minimal. As I said in my previous test of the 12x80s, I'd estimate them to be no more than 5 percent of the overall FOV. It may be more than 5 percent, but the fact is that these aberrations are so slight that one does not notice them unless one is deliberately looking for them.

This initial test was done on the eastern sky: slight haze, pretty calm atomosphere. At this time I realized that choice objects like Orion, Taurus, etc., were not in my seeing window. So I went to one of my west-facing bedroom windows, cranked up the blinds, opened the window, and - high overhead there was the Moon - between half and 3/4 full (5/8?). There was a gauze of light clouds drifting over its surface - not enough to obscure details but sufficient to dim its glare a bit.

IMO the view of the Moon through these binoculars was, what word shall I use? Stunning? Yes, but "stunning" has a bit too much "punch", too much a sense of the spectacular. What I saw elicited that feeling that I'm sure we're all familiar with: a quiet sense of awe, a kind of gentle jaw-dropping where one sits there and can only breathe the word, "Wow". The colors/contrast were very pleasing. But the detail is what caused that sense of awe in me! 16 power may not be a lot, but the amount of detail at this magnification was wonderfully evident in these binoculars (particularly the craters!) - proof of the excellent optical quality of these binocualrs. And mind you, this was while hand-held and neck-straining for the view (the Moon was around 70 degrees up).

My first impression of these binoculars is that I've ended up with another winner. They're beautiful, magnificent (sorry). My test was done in a totaly objective mindset. It was the views I got - particularly those of the Moon - that caused me to finally (understandably) shift into the emotional, the final result of my experience. Thus my thrill with this instrument's views came after my most objective analysis.

I wil do a more thorough test (star clusters, DSOs, etc.) when sky conditions permit and will report my findings for anyone intersted. Suffice to say that these binoculars produced what one would expect from such an instrument at such a price (I actually consider them a bargain at $560). Views are crisp and bright with good contrast. Very good eye relief (comfortable for me with eyecups nearly fully extended [I do not wear glasses]). Though basically hand-holdable for very short periods a tripod is strongly advised.

Conclusion: I recommend these 16x80s without reservation.

Mike Rapchak Jr.

P.S. I do not work for nor am I in any way affiliated with Vixen Optics.


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edwincjones
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binoculars new [Re: Mike Rapchak]
      #1332201 - 12/31/06 06:41 AM

I may have missed it, but are the 16x80 Vixen also?

Good review, thanks for posting it.

edj

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camvan
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: edwincjones]
      #1332370 - 12/31/06 10:19 AM

I think you missed it edj...it says 'Vixen 16x80 Binoculars' right in the subject line

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Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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edwincjones
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: camvan]
      #1332411 - 12/31/06 10:44 AM

too early, too little coffee

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n w arkansas
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Mike Rapchak
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: edwincjones]
      #1332520 - 12/31/06 11:49 AM

edj,

My fault. I re-read what I wrote last night and except for the the subject line (as Cameron so graciously explained) the fact that these are Vixen 16x80s isn't actually specified in the text.

Mike R.


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Erik D
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: edwincjones]
      #1332564 - 12/31/06 12:12 PM

Mike,

Congrats on your new purchase. Having several pairs of bino from 12X50 to 25X100 in my inventory I am able to experiment with different combination of magnification, exit pupil and FOV for star gazing.

I've found that I enjoy the darker sky background in my binos with 4-5mm exit pupil from my sub magnitude 5 backyard. I also enjoy using higer power binos as long as the objects I am viewing fits comfortably in the FOV. Orion used to stock both 16X80 and 20X80 model Japanese binos several years ago. FOV of the 16X and 20X models were both listed as 3.5 deg. The Orion Megaview 15X80 also had the same 3.5 deg FOV.

http://www.excelsis.com/1.0/entry.php?sectionid=21&entryid=150

Since those 15/16X 80mm models did not offer a wider TFOV than the 20X I elected to go with the 20. Looks like your 16X80 Vixen has wider 4.3 deg FOV. That means you can cover ~50% more sky AREA compared to 3.5 deg. Should be a good combination of FOV, maganification and exit pupil if you have a chance to observe from dark sky locations.

Erik D


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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: Erik D]
      #1332847 - 12/31/06 03:10 PM

Quote:

Looks like your 16X80 Vixen has wider 4.3 deg FOV.




Rarely do we ever see a binocular advertised at 70° Afov that actually turns out to be 70°.

Even more rarely do we see a binocular with 70° Afov that is well corrected in the outer fov. Simply because it is very difficult to make well corrected 70° eyepieces, and especiallly to put two of them in a reasonably priced binocular.

It would be interesting if this were such a model.

Here's a few easy measures to check

4.0° 7 UMi to 15 Umi, not completely across the top of Little Dipper Cup
4.1° 23 Dra to 33 Dra, Beta to Gamma draco, south side of Draco head
4.3° 10 CMi to 3 CMi, alpha (Procyon) to Beta Canis Minor

edz


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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: EdZ]
      #1332883 - 12/31/06 03:45 PM

could someone be so kinda as to give a quick formula and explanation of how you figure out your FOV and AFOV? is the way it's calculated the same for all optics, or is there an impact being you are looking thru two OTA assemblies?

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Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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Erik D
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: camvan]
      #1332934 - 12/31/06 04:15 PM

Cam,

This is one of the easier calculations in optics. Apparent FOV is simply the True Field of View times magnification(or power).

A 20X binocular with 3.5 deg FOV will have APFOV of 20X3.5= 70 deg.

Most binoculars list TFOV or how many feet/1000 yards. For example my Eagle Optics 8X32 has FOV of 393 ft at 1000 yds. One deg FOV is ~52.4 ft/1000 yards. My EO has TFOV of ~7.5 deg or 60 deg APFOV.

Mike's Vixen 16X80 is listed as having FOV of 4.3 deg. APFOV is 68.8 deg. Fairly wide for a EP.

I usually prefer my binos to have at least 60 deg APFOV. EdZ measured the Burgess 20X80 LW to have 3.8 deg TFOV sometime ago. That's very wide 76 deg APFOV. Do expect edge distortion with such wide angle binos. My Celectron Nova 7X50 is listed as having 10 Deg TFOV/70 deg APFOV. It's almost like viewing thru a fisheye lens at night. Stars in the outter 20% of the Field are totally distored.

Erik D


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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: Erik D]
      #1332945 - 12/31/06 04:23 PM

Quote:

This is one of the easier calculations in optics. Apparent FOV is simply the True Field of View times magnification(or power).

A 20X binocular with 3.5 deg FOV will have APFOV of 20X3.5= 70 deg.

Most binoculars list TFOV or how many feet/1000 yards. For example my Eagle Optics 8X32 has FOV of 393 ft at 1000 yds. One deg FOV is ~52.4 ft/1000 yards. My EO has TFOV of ~7.5 deg or 60 deg APFOV.

Mike's Vixen 16X80 is listed as having FOV of 4.3 deg. APFOV is 68.8 deg. Fairly wide for a EP.






Yes, this is an easy calculation. But maybe 7 out of 10 binoculars do not measure up to the Tfov specs as listed. So you can't trust the specs. We've known that here for a long time. That's why I have given the needed information to actually measure the TFOV. I would love to have my suspicion proven wrong.

edz

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Mike Rapchak
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: EdZ]
      #1333063 - 12/31/06 05:34 PM

Edz,

Many thanks for the intersting comments re FOV. I haven't yet attempted to determine the TFOV of my Vixen 16x80s bit will do so as soon as I get some decent weather (last night's relatively clear skies were the first in over a week; as of today we're back to the normal "gloom & doom" conditions).

I've also been curious about Vixen's specs that show the 16x80s as having a slightly wider TFOV (4.3 degrees) than the 12x80s (4.1 degrees). I don't know this is a simple typo or if it is true. I would assume that magnification and TFOV in binos with the same size objectives are determined by the EPs. I really don't know what the story is with the Vixen's EPs, but what I find intersting is that the EP-lens diameter on both the 12x80s and the 16x80s is essentially the same - around 7/8". Whether or not this means that the same EPs are used on both pairs I can't say.

Then there is the matter of focal length/ratio. Measuring the distance between the objectives and the EP lenses (with a steel scale held alongside one of the barrels) I get a length of right around 11 inches. I may be mistaken, but IIRC this is a bit shorter than the measurement I got on the 12x80s.

I'm sure that you can help clarify this situation and I'll be very interested in your thoughts/comments (as well as those of others here).

Mike R.


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Mike Rapchak
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: Erik D]
      #1333072 - 12/31/06 05:40 PM


Many thanks, Erik! I have a feeling that, as you say, once I get these binos out under a dark sky I'm going to be thrilled by their performance.

Mike R.


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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: Mike Rapchak]
      #1333184 - 12/31/06 06:44 PM

Great report Mike, I'm looking forward to more.

Oh, and by the way, happy New Year everybody!

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: Mike Rapchak]
      #1333192 - 12/31/06 06:49 PM

Mike, you can't really tell anything by those measures. There is no way of knowing what the focal length of the eyepieces is, and they could very well be different, even though they have the same eye lens diameter. The entire line of Radian eyepieces all have the same eye lens diameter.

Based on the dimensions given in the spec sheets, it looks like they use the exact same body for the 12x, 16x and 20x, possibly even the 30x with a slight extension. That would mean only the eyepiece changes.

Binoculars are almost always around f/4 and an 80mm binocular may be longer, at least f/4.5. So a reasonable assumption is the focal length is about 350mm. Using eyepieces of varying focal lengths is all that is required to change magnification. Varying the Afov, or the field stop diameter, of the eyepieces, will change the field of view or Tfov. So they could use eyepieces such as 29mm, 22mm, 17.5mm and 12mm.

Several things happen when you increase the field stop in an eyepiecce. You get a wider field of view, but you also generally increase the aberrations in the outer field of view, including coma, spherical aberration and astigmatism. This is not just binocular eyepieces I'm talking about, this is eyepieces in general. Most 70° eyepieces on the market today have pretty poor outer field performance. It takes a very well corrected eyepiece to eliminate those aberrations, and it cost considerable money to make such eyepieces. So generally what we see in binoculars that have 70° Afov is pretty poor performance in the outer field of view, unless perhaps you are using a $300-$400 pair of eyepieces.

Few binoculars have well corrected wide fields of view. The Fujinon 16x70 is one that is fairly well corrected. It has a true measured Tfov of 4°, therefore the eyepieces have an Afov of 64°. It's well corrected to within 20% of the edge, or 80% out, maybe 85%.

You estimated sharp view of the Vixen Ark to within 5% of edge. Likewise you estimated the 12x80 to have a sharp view to within 5% of the edge. Frankly Mike, I can think of only one or two binoculars that might even come close to that. The Pentax 16x60 was one, it is sharp out to 90% of the field, but it has orthoscopic eyepiecs with a 42° Afov, not wide angle eyepieces. That's about what I would expect from orthoscopic eyepieces. It is not what I would expect from 70° eyepieces.

Two prior reviews of these vixens, one a 16x80 and one a 20x80, report loss of usable field in the outer 20% or more of the field. None of the prior reports gives us any true measure of the field of view.

edz

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Mike Rapchak
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binoculars new [Re: Mike Rapchak]
      #1333194 - 12/31/06 06:50 PM

Brief Update:

At approx. 5:15 p.m CST I did a short check of the Moon through the 16x80s. I realized that last night's description of the Moon's phase was inaccurate; it's actually a good 3/4 full.

Miraculously the skies have cleared off nicely. It isn't totally dark yet (the sky - aided by the Moon's glow - is a soft, dark blue).

This time there were no thin clouds to help tame the Moon's glare. But this turned out to be a non-issue afterall.

Once again my immediate reaction was delight at the crisp, detailed view of the lunar surface through these binoculars. While not particularly large at 16 power, the view was very impressive . Even with its face-on glare the visible details on its surface were striking in their fine resolution.

Again checked for distortion and light fall-off at the edges of the field, and also ghosting/flaring/chromatic aberration - all while viewing "der Mond".

Either I am going blind or these binoculars are quite a superior optical instrument. Glare is slightly noticeable, and there is some false-image ghosting that seems concentrated in the lower left edge of the FOV (around 8 o'clock). I find these artifacts acceptable considering the magnitude of the glare (brilliant) from the Moon's surface. I don't recall ever using a binocular that didn't exhibit at least some of these effects. I perceived no appreciable light drop-off at the edges. There is a bit of image distortion, but it's a the extreme edge and not an issue unless one is deliberately looking for it.

And CA? Simply put, it isn't there. Beleive it or not, there is none - none that I saw. Of course in its present phase the Moon is nearly round. Perhaps if there were a crescent limb to observe I might see a trace of CA. But no trace of any as of yet.

So far these binos appear to be very capable performers. They are quite comfortable to view through and IMO offer a more than adequate FOV. Star colors are very nice (as are the contrasts in colors on the lunar surface). I can't say how good these are in comparison to other binos since I don't own any (other than a splendid vintage pair of Celestron Nova EWA 10x50s which exhibit a similar though considerably smaller view. Star colors are also weaker in these than in the Vixens).

This is where things stand at the moment. I'm still working on determining these binos's TFOV. Hopefully I'll have something to report before long.

Mike Rapchak Jr.

Edited by Mike Rapchak (01/01/07 07:17 PM)


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EdZModerator
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: EdZ]
      #1333197 - 12/31/06 06:51 PM

Happy New Year Mark, and Mike, and Erik and everyone else too.

edz

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Mike Rapchak
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Posts: 450
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: EdZ]
      #1333217 - 12/31/06 07:03 PM

Edz,

Many thanks - and the same to you and to yours!

Mike R.


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Mike Rapchak
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Posts: 450
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1333223 - 12/31/06 07:07 PM


Many thanks, Mark - and the same to you and to yours!

Mike


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Mike Rapchak
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: EdZ]
      #1333249 - 12/31/06 07:21 PM

Ed,

Again I may be off on the 5% figure, but the affected area is so small that I never notice it unless deliberately testing for it. I just ran out and checked again viewing the Moon. Honestly, I do not detect any visual light drop-off at the edge of the field. There is a bit of image distortion but again it's way out at the edge where it normally isn't noticeable (and trying to gauge it accurately with the Moon at the edge of the viewable field is great for inducing eyestrain! ).

Now, concerning TFOV: What is the star at the apex of the Hyades? Y Tauri? Well, it and Aldebaran just barely fit into the FOV. As yet I don't know what the distance is between these two stars, but whatever it is, that is the TFOV of these binoculars.

Mike R.


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EdZModerator
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Re: Update: Very Short Test on Vixen 16x80 Binocul new [Re: Mike Rapchak]
      #1333263 - 12/31/06 07:30 PM

4.0° from a 87 Tau to y 54 Tau Aldeberan to the point of the V in the Hyades

edz

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