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brt209
sage
Reged: 09/18/05
Posts: 222
Loc: London UK
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I've come across two brands that produce some high quality binoculars who could rival the big daddy (maybe!):
Astro-Physics
United-Optics (thanks to Mark9473 for this one),see MS-M models.
Stephane
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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What makes you think so? 
Thank you.
Amalia
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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BTW these binos are also available in Germany:
http://www.telescope-service.com/binoculars/start/medium/medium.html#1070marine
Amalia
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Hi Stephane,
actually we've been disccussing these binoculars for quite some time now. you will find that they are distributed by at least eight different suppliers.
See this thread Kunming Series 8 Binoc Ultra-Premium-Signature for links to most of the distributors, the manufacturers and various reviews in this forum. There are at least a dozen minireviews of various sizes of these binoculars. There is also a comprehensive review of the 15x70 Ultra vs the Fujinon 16x70 in the CN Reports.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Bruce MacDonald
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
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I think I'd rather spend the extra money on a proven manufacturer with a good warranty policy and which I can look at and hold in the shop. That said, the quality of the Chinese bins appears to be improving all the time so who knows?
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Bruce MacDonald
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
Per Mare Per Terras
Viz Top Tip: Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
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brt209
sage
Reged: 09/18/05
Posts: 222
Loc: London UK
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Thanks Edz.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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FWIW, I would agree they closely rival the Fujinon FMT-SX. You can read that in my CN report of the Oberwerk Ultra 15x70.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2699
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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BTW, in view of a notorious thread going on in this forum right now, did anybody notice that AstroPhysics says these binoculars have a "fully illuminated exit pupil"?
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Barry Simon is the moderator of Yahoo BinocularAstronomy group. He has owned and observed with as many binoculars as most of the binocular obsessed among us. (as well as a house full of telescopes). I recall him writing a few years ago that he will want to keep his Fujinon FMT 16X70 and the Miyauchi 26X100 45 deg bino if he had to evacute the next hurricane. That was before the GO Ultras:
GO Ultra 15X70 vs Fujinon 16X70
Erik D
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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This is the real thing to be read: Ed's report about the Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
With many thanks to Ed - this is one amazing work!
Quote:
I think I'd rather spend the extra money on...
The only thing which is interesting me is performance,
and nothing else. (Sorry if I sound a little rude, I don't
know how to say this more politely, and it is 2 o'clock
passed here...)
However here there seems to be another problem, and this
is about the constancy of the FMT-SX Fujinons.
Ed, I *think* there could have been a change in quality
of the FMT-SX. Do you know anything about it? And which
16x70 were you using during your comparison?
Thank you.
Amalia
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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I am VERY open with my customers concerning the series 8; I tell people it is a "Chinese "knock off." That way they can't say I tried to convince them that it is made in the US or is something it is not.
As far as consistency: I have been checking collimation, and they have ALL been within spec and ALL have deviated from perfection by the same distance and in the same direction. That is very impressive and tell me that someone really cares.
Sorry, I can go no further with this without taking a swipe at some good companies that used to care a lot.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Thank you Amalia.
I used the original version of the FMT-SX. I've seen mixed reports with the newer version of the Fujinon. I have not used the newer version.
And thanks Bill. very interesting comment, that they are all ajusted to the same position. BTW, (and you can answer this, because you are being asked in a forum) what have you decided to call the Captain's version? Which sizes have you imported?
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Well, since you made me a vendor, instead of part of the pack . . . I'm not telling you a bloody thing! 
Okay, so I'm weak!! 
We have the 7x50, 10.5 x50 and the 15x70.
But, for most of the astronomy crowd, I would defer to my friends who have already been selling them a while. Kevin, Zach and Roland. Considering that so many amateur astronomers think of nothing but dollars, they would probably consider the cost of mine highway robbery. Sure I give benefits, but they're appreciated more by those who are not pinching pennies and who look at binoculars as a tool and not a toy.
Cheers,
Bill 
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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rushintuit
sage
Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
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Bill, as you once wrote in Sky and Telescope magazine, "The most common reason binoculars come to us for repair, aside from getting knocked out of collimation, is moisture stains or fungus on the prisms and lenses." You conclude by saying, "To 'just clean' a binocular, as the customer usually asks, means an expensive disassembly, reassembly, and complete re-collimation. By comparison a premium waterproof, dry-nitrogen-filled instrument begins to look economical".
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/// Stellarvue SV102ED /// Nikon 12x50 /// Fujinon 16x70 /// SkyTools 2 /// The Desktop Universe All Sky CCD Mosaic In Monochrome Mode ///
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Said it; meant it; stand by it.
For some folks, not shooting from the hip is a feature. For those who are as forgetful as me, it is essential! Can you imaging how much trouble I'd be in if I changed my feelings with the winds?
Cheers,
Bill
PS Thanks for reading my article. I always wondered who the other guy was.
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
By comparison a premium waterproof, dry-nitrogen-filled instrument begins to look economical".
Many non premium roof prism binos binos sold today are waterproof, nitrgoen filled. They may not be built to the mil spec of the FMT SX but even the $169 Eagle Optics Denali Roof or the $150 Pentax PCF WP is covered by "limited lifetime warranty".
Erik D
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Unfortunately, after repairing a few thousand instruments, I don't believe everything I read on the side of a binocular or in their sales brochures.
And as far as the SX series being "Mil Spec," well that is true. However, as I have said before, half of the Mil Spec specs are useless anyway:
7x50, yep,
7.1 degree field of view, ditto,
individual eye focus, uh huh!
The last few requisitions I've seen just looks like somebody BACKED into it to make the admiral happy, or to meet a price point.
Most of what was once a valuable "Mil Spec" has, by virtue of MANY developments in the optics industry, become LONG obsolete.
In 1908 it became illegal to operate a motor vehicle within the city limits of Dallas. The law is still on the books. Fortunately, observance of it has gone the way of the dodo.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Bruce MacDonald
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
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Quote:
Most of what was once a valuable "Mil Spec" has, by virtue of MANY developments in the optics industry, become LONG obsolete.
Bill, would you care to elaborate on that statement? Not that I am hung up on mil-spec anything on my binoculars but it is often touted as a selling point on binoculars. What is worth keeping and what is not?
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Bruce MacDonald
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
Per Mare Per Terras
Viz Top Tip: Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Hi Bruce:
I just gave three, and I gave the whole ball of wax recently; but, I will go on.
The military calls for a 7x50, and also asks for a field of view to be 7.1 degrees. Wow! what a revelation. What size field of view comes automatically with a 7-power binocular with a 50mm objective? 7.1 degrees +. Was that really stringent? Of course it was to the yeoman who wrote it up but who knows nothing about optics.
As far as obsolete:
Mil Spec was created in a time when some of the best glass was no better than some of the worst today. There were bubbles, striations, impurities, turned edges, etc. and they were being produced SWIFTLY for the war effort. Mil Spec was a have-to case. No more. Today, while Mil Spec can be important, it is restricted to things like watertight integrity, impact resistance, coating type, eye-relief, etc.
Keep in mind that the binoculars of the war were NOT available to the general public. Yet, when was the last time you saw a Mil Spec binocular that was NOT available to the public?
Just a thought.
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1006
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Bill,
Thanks for the background on Mil Spec. Looking for a periscope in the water was no time to be doubting your bino.
So, what do you think of the Kunming 8s vs the FMT-SX, and of the rumors of recent quality variations from Fujinon? Have you seen the new-style "SX-2", or whatever you call it?
Ron
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