brt209
sage
Reged: 09/18/05
Posts: 222
Loc: London UK
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I've come across two brands that produce some high quality binoculars who could rival the big daddy (maybe!):
Astro-Physics
United-Optics (thanks to Mark9473 for this one),see MS-M models.
Stephane
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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What makes you think so? 
Thank you.
Amalia
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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BTW these binos are also available in Germany:
http://www.telescope-service.com/binoculars/start/medium/medium.html#1070marine
Amalia
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Hi Stephane,
actually we've been disccussing these binoculars for quite some time now. you will find that they are distributed by at least eight different suppliers.
See this thread Kunming Series 8 Binoc Ultra-Premium-Signature for links to most of the distributors, the manufacturers and various reviews in this forum. There are at least a dozen minireviews of various sizes of these binoculars. There is also a comprehensive review of the 15x70 Ultra vs the Fujinon 16x70 in the CN Reports.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Bruce MacDonald
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
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I think I'd rather spend the extra money on a proven manufacturer with a good warranty policy and which I can look at and hold in the shop. That said, the quality of the Chinese bins appears to be improving all the time so who knows?
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Bruce MacDonald
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
Per Mare Per Terras
Viz Top Tip: Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
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brt209
sage
Reged: 09/18/05
Posts: 222
Loc: London UK
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Thanks Edz.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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FWIW, I would agree they closely rival the Fujinon FMT-SX. You can read that in my CN report of the Oberwerk Ultra 15x70.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2699
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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BTW, in view of a notorious thread going on in this forum right now, did anybody notice that AstroPhysics says these binoculars have a "fully illuminated exit pupil"?
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Barry Simon is the moderator of Yahoo BinocularAstronomy group. He has owned and observed with as many binoculars as most of the binocular obsessed among us. (as well as a house full of telescopes). I recall him writing a few years ago that he will want to keep his Fujinon FMT 16X70 and the Miyauchi 26X100 45 deg bino if he had to evacute the next hurricane. That was before the GO Ultras:
GO Ultra 15X70 vs Fujinon 16X70
Erik D
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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This is the real thing to be read: Ed's report about the Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
With many thanks to Ed - this is one amazing work!
Quote:
I think I'd rather spend the extra money on...
The only thing which is interesting me is performance,
and nothing else. (Sorry if I sound a little rude, I don't
know how to say this more politely, and it is 2 o'clock
passed here...)
However here there seems to be another problem, and this
is about the constancy of the FMT-SX Fujinons.
Ed, I *think* there could have been a change in quality
of the FMT-SX. Do you know anything about it? And which
16x70 were you using during your comparison?
Thank you.
Amalia
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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I am VERY open with my customers concerning the series 8; I tell people it is a "Chinese "knock off." That way they can't say I tried to convince them that it is made in the US or is something it is not.
As far as consistency: I have been checking collimation, and they have ALL been within spec and ALL have deviated from perfection by the same distance and in the same direction. That is very impressive and tell me that someone really cares.
Sorry, I can go no further with this without taking a swipe at some good companies that used to care a lot.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Thank you Amalia.
I used the original version of the FMT-SX. I've seen mixed reports with the newer version of the Fujinon. I have not used the newer version.
And thanks Bill. very interesting comment, that they are all ajusted to the same position. BTW, (and you can answer this, because you are being asked in a forum) what have you decided to call the Captain's version? Which sizes have you imported?
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Well, since you made me a vendor, instead of part of the pack . . . I'm not telling you a bloody thing! 
Okay, so I'm weak!! 
We have the 7x50, 10.5 x50 and the 15x70.
But, for most of the astronomy crowd, I would defer to my friends who have already been selling them a while. Kevin, Zach and Roland. Considering that so many amateur astronomers think of nothing but dollars, they would probably consider the cost of mine highway robbery. Sure I give benefits, but they're appreciated more by those who are not pinching pennies and who look at binoculars as a tool and not a toy.
Cheers,
Bill 
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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rushintuit
sage
Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
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Bill, as you once wrote in Sky and Telescope magazine, "The most common reason binoculars come to us for repair, aside from getting knocked out of collimation, is moisture stains or fungus on the prisms and lenses." You conclude by saying, "To 'just clean' a binocular, as the customer usually asks, means an expensive disassembly, reassembly, and complete re-collimation. By comparison a premium waterproof, dry-nitrogen-filled instrument begins to look economical".
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/// Stellarvue SV102ED /// Nikon 12x50 /// Fujinon 16x70 /// SkyTools 2 /// The Desktop Universe All Sky CCD Mosaic In Monochrome Mode ///
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Said it; meant it; stand by it.
For some folks, not shooting from the hip is a feature. For those who are as forgetful as me, it is essential! Can you imaging how much trouble I'd be in if I changed my feelings with the winds?
Cheers,
Bill
PS Thanks for reading my article. I always wondered who the other guy was.
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
By comparison a premium waterproof, dry-nitrogen-filled instrument begins to look economical".
Many non premium roof prism binos binos sold today are waterproof, nitrgoen filled. They may not be built to the mil spec of the FMT SX but even the $169 Eagle Optics Denali Roof or the $150 Pentax PCF WP is covered by "limited lifetime warranty".
Erik D
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Unfortunately, after repairing a few thousand instruments, I don't believe everything I read on the side of a binocular or in their sales brochures.
And as far as the SX series being "Mil Spec," well that is true. However, as I have said before, half of the Mil Spec specs are useless anyway:
7x50, yep,
7.1 degree field of view, ditto,
individual eye focus, uh huh!
The last few requisitions I've seen just looks like somebody BACKED into it to make the admiral happy, or to meet a price point.
Most of what was once a valuable "Mil Spec" has, by virtue of MANY developments in the optics industry, become LONG obsolete.
In 1908 it became illegal to operate a motor vehicle within the city limits of Dallas. The law is still on the books. Fortunately, observance of it has gone the way of the dodo.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Bruce MacDonald
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
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Quote:
Most of what was once a valuable "Mil Spec" has, by virtue of MANY developments in the optics industry, become LONG obsolete.
Bill, would you care to elaborate on that statement? Not that I am hung up on mil-spec anything on my binoculars but it is often touted as a selling point on binoculars. What is worth keeping and what is not?
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Bruce MacDonald
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK
Per Mare Per Terras
Viz Top Tip: Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Hi Bruce:
I just gave three, and I gave the whole ball of wax recently; but, I will go on.
The military calls for a 7x50, and also asks for a field of view to be 7.1 degrees. Wow! what a revelation. What size field of view comes automatically with a 7-power binocular with a 50mm objective? 7.1 degrees +. Was that really stringent? Of course it was to the yeoman who wrote it up but who knows nothing about optics.
As far as obsolete:
Mil Spec was created in a time when some of the best glass was no better than some of the worst today. There were bubbles, striations, impurities, turned edges, etc. and they were being produced SWIFTLY for the war effort. Mil Spec was a have-to case. No more. Today, while Mil Spec can be important, it is restricted to things like watertight integrity, impact resistance, coating type, eye-relief, etc.
Keep in mind that the binoculars of the war were NOT available to the general public. Yet, when was the last time you saw a Mil Spec binocular that was NOT available to the public?
Just a thought.
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1006
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Bill,
Thanks for the background on Mil Spec. Looking for a periscope in the water was no time to be doubting your bino.
So, what do you think of the Kunming 8s vs the FMT-SX, and of the rumors of recent quality variations from Fujinon? Have you seen the new-style "SX-2", or whatever you call it?
Ron
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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Hi Ron:
I have been quite pleased with the Kunmings. They may not be "Fuji Killers" in shear performance. However, I sure would not mind being seen using one. I got a 10x50 as soon as I could.
Also, I have heard a lot about changes in the Fujinon SX2. However, I have not had occasion to go inside yet, and I don't have time to do so for fun. So far, the only difference I have seen has been slight changes in cosmetics.
I wouldn't, however, be surprised at any news that might come my way.
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Quote:
I used the original version of the FMT-SX. I've seen
mixed reports with the newer version of the Fujinon. I have
not used the newer version.
Thank you, Professor edz!
Amalia
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Quote:
(...)
Sorry, I can go no further with this without taking a swipe at
some good companies that used to care a lot.
Cheers,
Bill
Thank you, Bill.
I have thought a long time about your sentance today,
and now I do understand, that you want to express that
you are disappointed about Fujinon, as it worked better
in earlier times.
Please correct me if I did misunderstand the meaning
of your sentence.
Thank you again.
Amalia
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2109
Loc: Washington, USA
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>>>Please correct me if I did misunderstand the meaning
of your sentence.
Thank you again.
Amalia<<<
Actually, you did misunderstand; I was not speaking of Fujinon.
At the point I wrote that, I was thinking of the care that goes into some of the repairs at some of the most prestigeus companies. In that regard I can't say all I know; that would be too low even for me, and it could hurt or embarrass some nice people who are actually not responsible for all that they don't know or can't do.
And while I would not pick on some of these folks, I do not mind picking on my friendly neighborhood government.
The Navy OM (Opticalman) school was closed on October 1, 1999 and the OM rate (profession) was discontinued on October 1, 2000. The job has now been turned over to ET's, who have no training in optics.
Three years ago I got this message from a fleet optics repair station in Southern California.
"Chief, if we send you some photographs of some of our equipment, could you tell us what it is and what it is used for?"
To a tenth generation American, comments like that are VERY disconcerning! 
Cheers,
Bill
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Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Oh, I see. Please apologise my wrong understanding
Thank you for correcting this communication error.
Cheers,
Amalia
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Tom C.
member
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 15
Loc: New Hampshire
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Hi Bill,
I'm new to the forum, but not new to checking out binoculars. As a longtime pro photographer I like to think I have a discriminating eye so I have a question concerning the highly rated Fujinon 16 x 70s especially since there's been a lot of talk here concerning alternatives. I ordered a pair from Adorama last year after reading all the glowing reports. Just happened to be a full moon the day they arrived so I excitedly pulled them out and headed for my favorite (a little darker skys than home) observing site and set them on a tripod. Pointed them at the full moon and thought--these must have been made for Andy Warhol. What to my anticipating eyes appeared but an orb with a thick, BRIGHT flourescent green/ yellow "highlighter" border all around. I mean, you can't buy a more flourescent yellw/green spray paint than color I saw around the moon that night. I mean, I just couldn't hardly escape it even moving my eyes around the eye pieces. Is this a defect in the binocular coating, and has anyone else experienced this, was I hallucinating, or am I just too demanding. I mean, I was so incredulous over what I was seeing that I went and pulled out my almost 30-year-old Bushnell Explorer II 10 x 50s that I keep in the truck. Although a little foggy with all that moonlight flooding in (low contrast) there was no ring around the moon and the details were sharp. Let me know what you think. At $700, I just couldn't justify keeping them.
And just one other question for the old pro. What would you say is a good price for collimating a pair of Apogee RA88s. I should have read through CN earlier as I just shipped my babies to John Redlich in North Carolina to realign them. He gave me an estimate of $350. I know it sounds crazy that I told him to have at it, but I really miss having them. Would appreciate your opinion and any suggestions you may have for future servicing.
Thanks for your consideration.
Cheers,
Tom
Apogee RA88s
Celestron 15x70
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50
Celestron Ultima (old style) 10x50
Meade LXD-75 SN-10
Orion ED80
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Hi Tom,
I know. I'm not Bill. But hey, here ya go.
First of all, the Fujinon is very well known for having significant CA.
Quote:
RE Fujinon: ...What to my anticipating eyes appeared but an orb with a thick, BRIGHT flourescent green/ yellow "highlighter" border all around.... Is this a defect in the binocular coating, ...I was so incredulous over what I was seeing
No not at all. In fact chromatic aberration has nothing to do with the coatings. It is a matter of fact that in a doublet lens (even a triplet for that matter, but not to the same extent) that all colors of the spectrum cannot be focused at the same plane. Precise focusing helps. Could that be a consequence of employing a field flattener in the design? I'm not sure. But I would say yours is a case of using the wrong tool for the job.
See this link for info on CA
Chromatic Aberration, Triplets, Semi-Apo, Apo
I would say the Fujinon is not made for looking at the moon. However it does have fine resolution and superior contrast for looking at just about everything else in the sky.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Pepin The Short
member
Reged: 11/24/06
Posts: 31
Loc: Wroclaw, Poland
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Comparing 10x50 from United Optics and Fujinon, most people put emphasis only on optical quality. These Chinese binos are chasing it's Japanese rival for half of a price, that's right. They look very similar. That's the second point. But Fujinon is significantly lighter (1,4kg. compared to 1,6kg of UO), that's what most people seem not to notice. And I think it may be an important issue for somebody who wants to take his binos off the tripod from time to time, and go for a cross-country trip.
Greetings everyone.
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2554
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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I think most people interested in the FMT SX vs. Chinese Series 8 comparsion are thinking of the Fuji 16X70/ Chinese 15X70 match up. Since either model need to be mounted 0.5 kg is not a big deal. The Fuji 10X50 FMT SX is just not that popular in the US market. I just checked the web site of 3 of my favorite binocular dealers. One is "currently out of stock", one has them for $659 USD, the 3rd dealer doesn't even list the 10X50 FMT SX.
The Fuji 10X50 may be 0.2 kg lighter thant the Chinese competition but 1.4 kg/49.4 oz is still a LOT of weight to carry around for a 10X50. I can't imagine there is a big demand for either of the heavy weight IF 50mm binos in the civilian market.....perhaps the Dept of Homeland Security...
ERik D
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brt209
sage
Reged: 09/18/05
Posts: 222
Loc: London UK
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