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tonyhuynh
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Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again
      #2087709 - 01/01/08 02:21 PM

Hello everyone,

Has anyone looked through this bino during the day? If you could choose one of the following and keep, not sell which would you take:
1. Fuji 16x70
2. Nikon 18x70
3. Steiner 20x80 Senator

I know that many will probably take the Nikon but could you explain to me some of the pros it has over the other two?
I am willing to wait and save up the extra money if the Nikon is indeed sharper/better?

Thanks eveyone.
Tony


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Les
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2087753 - 01/01/08 02:45 PM

Quote:

I am willing to wait and save up the extra money if the Nikon is indeed sharper/better?




Some prefer the Nikon over the Fuji for ergonomics, FOV, and light transmission. I don't think anyone would make the argument that it is sharper. It is a very fast design optically and will show quite a bit more CA in daylight viewing than say a birding binocular.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


Edited by Les (01/01/08 07:26 PM)


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Rich V.
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: Les]
      #2087813 - 01/01/08 03:19 PM

Back in the April 2003 Astronomy Magazine, Phil Harrington tested a number of 15-20x ASTRO binoculars. His favorites for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place were:

#1- Zeiss B/GAT 15x60

#2- Fuji FMT-SX 16x70

#3- Nikon Astroluxe 18x70

Perhaps you can find a copy of that issue.

You might want to read this thread from a few years ago:

18x70 vs. 16x70

Rich V

--------------------
Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S


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hallelujah
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2088150 - 01/01/08 05:51 PM

Quote:



Has anyone looked through this bino during the day?
Tony




What kind of daytime targets will you be looking at?
How much magnification do you really need?

I was using 20x60mm and 20x80mm for daytime, long distance birdwatching, and I had to move up to a 30x80mm to get the magnification I needed. Smaller targets require greater power.

--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth


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tonyhuynh
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: hallelujah]
      #2088225 - 01/01/08 06:26 PM

Thanks Les...

Thanks Rich V......

Thanks Hallelujah....I am thinking of long distance bird/people/mountains watching as well as offshore ships....not really birdings...just general everything far away daytime observations...

I have an 80 mm Sv80S scope for longer distances above 20x...I am looking for advice on something about 20x or less for the above type of observation.....hoping it will be briefly handholdable, monopods, and very light tripodable...

I noticed you have a lot of the Pentaxes...are they good? How do they compare to the large Steiner? I am just looking for sharpness during the day....what do you suggest are some good options? I would like something of a higher quality since these will be a lifetime keeper bino....

Thanks very much.
Tony


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pedro
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2088388 - 01/01/08 07:17 PM

Hello Tony

I owned the Fuji 16x70 some years ago and now I own the Nikon 18x70 and like you I use to use my binoculars to some daytime purposes.
To my taste the Nikon are way better to use than the Fuji regarding some things like the ''eye comfort'' (the smaller eyepiece barrel and their better eyerelief really helps a lot during their use) the Nikon carry also a better coating (a nice very high transmission delivering a wonderful transparency giving you that kind of pleasant sensation ‘’no glass in front of your eyes’’) which is in my opinion a step over the Fuji (but not for a dramatic difference because the Fuji is also very good) and finally the Nikon 72º apparent field of view against the 64º in the Fujis which is a very nice feature that I believe is a big difference between both even to some terrestrial daytime purpose…18X added to a wide field of view is a very pleasant detail…I sold also my Takahashi 22x60mm just because they have a narrow 46º apparent field of view…the Nikon have also a better ‘’hand’’ feeling…they looks slim and ‘’light’’ in comparison even having both almost the same size and weight…to some causal handhold watching the Nikon is better in my opinion.
Like the Fuji 16X the Nikon show in some daytime situation some ''high level'' amount of CA (to my particular taste I say) - but normally when using they to a real long distant landscapes this is not a real apparent problem – sometimes you really almost can’t notice nothing looking at some distant green fields, farms, airplanes, etc etc …but I am a very sensitive CA guy then I use to stop their objectives down to ‘’45mm in aperture’’ under the daytime and then the CA drops and be almost invisible even on some very bright objects - using 45mm of aperture under daylight don't change (like some one could imagine) too much the ‘’apparent picture brightness’’ to the eye (but is visible if you take some picture through them) on the resultant images and you get using that small aperture a very clear and sharp terrestrial image with true and still vivid colors ...their fast F/4 70mm objectives changes (after the stoped down process) to a pair of 45mm F/6,2 - and their originally 3,8mm exit pupil changes to a ’’ smaller ‘’ 2,5mm (normally found in some 20x50mm binoculars) The Takahashi 22x60mm for example have a original 2,72mm exit pupil… so this not a real tragedy under the daylight because the eye pupil becomes very small at this time…I found this configuration very comfortable and free of black-outs, etc- under the night sky of course I use them at their full 70mm aperture because the CA is not apparent on the most objects...and here a curious thing is that for example the full moon even using the full aperture they do not show the same amount of CA visible under the daylight.
The Nikon sharpness as a terrestrial glass is very and very good to a high powered 18X binoculars…
The intruse CA is real a bad thing to me under the daytime, and I believe for most of the people who likes to watching using high powered binoculars- but if you can accept the idea to use them sometimes stoped down like me to maybe at 50mm or even better at 45mm – you will get a very sharp, wide and 90% color free pleasant picture with a very relaxed visual sensation under the daylight…and using they at night in their full 70mm aperture – you will have two very good instruments ‘’in just one’’ – well this is just my opinion and own experience - could be not the same to most of the people who don’t accept to change some original binocular conception to get from them some better results under some special situation.
These 18x70's are very very well buit...they are a kind of binoculars whit lifetime durability (if well cared of course) - they are really a very fine optical instrument because they offers at the same time some very good featuresto such a 18Xbinocular like their wide 72º apparent field of view - they are quite waterproof and fog proof nitrogen filled - they have a very precise eyepiece adjustment - the collimation is something really awesome...maybe perfect could I say to my taste and experience - the eye relief is enough even to who wear thin glasses - their external painting and finishing is ''first class AAAA++++'' - the Nikon coating is equal or even the best I found in my previous binoculars (Some Zeiss, Takahashi, Docter, Fujinon) you have IMO - to made short a long explanation that kind of sensation to have in your hands some really ''professional made'' equipment.
Well let me explain that this is just my modest opinion...should better you look for some more 18x70's owners before some decision.

regards Pedro


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Rick
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: pedro]
      #2088449 - 01/01/08 07:40 PM

I have owned the Fuji 16x70, the Nikon 18x70 and the Steiner 25x80 Observer.

For daytime use I would take the Canon 18x50IS any day over these three. The optics are world class and the IS is "liberating" to say the least.

clear skies,
Rick

--------------------
www.japanastro.com

Edited by Rick (01/01/08 07:42 PM)


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tonyhuynh
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: Rick]
      #2088496 - 01/01/08 08:05 PM

Hello Pedro and thank you so much for your time in writing such a detailed explanation for me. If I get the Nikon I hope I could just ignore the CA...I am not an experience viewer so I can't really see any CA...Thanks Pedro

Hi Rick...I actually just bought the Canon IS 15x50 but planning to return them since I am looking for a pair of bino that can last a lifetime and I think that most things with electronics in them can break down anytime...That is why I plan on returning them for something like the Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe which may last a lifetime.

Pedro and Rick...I have looked through my Canon 15x50 and have not noticed any CA in them. Does that mean that I may have a good chance at not being too bothered by CA in a Nikon Astroluxe?

Thanks Pedro and Rick.

Tony


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Wes James
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: Rick]
      #2088498 - 01/01/08 08:07 PM

Quote:

For daytime use I would take the Canon 18x50IS any day over these three. The optics are world class and the IS is "liberating" to say the least.





... and for nighttime/astronomical use?

--------------------
Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL

Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O

"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers


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Rick
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2088562 - 01/01/08 08:41 PM

Tony, my impression is the CA in the Nikon is pretty severe in daytime.

Wes, I think I would still pick the Canon for astro-gazing given my aversion to tripods.

clear skies,
Rick

--------------------
www.japanastro.com


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pedro
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Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2088632 - 01/01/08 09:10 PM

Hello tony

Unfortunatelly I believe you wouldn't be able to almost not notice the 18x70's CA because they are really very apparent sometimes as a Violet color Fringe in one side and as yellowish in another one MAINLY when approaching to the field border under some high contrastant situation - but I repeat - only under some situation while in another almost no one CA is really visible that could bother even me...a very boring guy who uses to be always looking for it every time...
Some people could live with it there without no one kind of ''real problem'' in my case I got my ''trick'' to kill it (stopping it aperture) and now I can live in peace with my binoculars ''really almost free of CA'' under the daylight with very good results.
The 15x50's IS is a different instrument because they carry a kind of special glass element (UD- Ultra-low-dispersion) in their frontal objectives which helps to drop the CA at some low visible levels- the 18x70's DON'T carry these kind of element so the CA is more visible coming they F/4 fast objectives - but, even with the CA there the ‘’sharpness’’ of these 18x70's is not compromised - I tried them on some really distant radio/TV's Anthenas against the bright sky and ''with'' and ''without'' the CA visible (using that stop down aperture option) and easily I proved (to myself) that it very good sharpness/crispness remained always the same - this is in My opinion a signal that they are very and very well corrected in anyway.
With these 18x it’s possible to reach at some very fine and delicated details on some very distant targets like some mettalic building structures – some big anthenas or diatnt power towers, factory roofs, etc, etc...
At the ‘’center of the field’’ the CA is not really ''too much'' apparent (when in a regular use at their full 70mm aperture) under some critical situation- the problem becomes bigger when looking at the ''middle to the border'' part of the FOV...at the extreme border you can see it strong (again I repeat in some situations not in all situation).
When looking at some kind of ''black crow'' flying high against the bright blue sky (with they at their full aperture) is possible to see the CA around they body -but if stoped at 45mm you get a almost 90% free of false color fringe in praticaly all of it FOV.
I hope I can help and not confuse youwith my comments.

regards Pedro


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pedro
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2088658 - 01/01/08 09:21 PM

Tony

I have never tried the MINOX 15x58's but they are also some interesting binoculars in my opinion - which I am planning to test someday who knows.
They are watherproof, they carry the ED element in their objectives and they are very well build and very well regarded in some good reviews..of course they are not perfect as no one bincoular are perfect to all situation...take a look at this review, maybe could be also another problably option to your list:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/big_eyes.html

regards Pedro


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tonyhuynh
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: pedro]
      #2088668 - 01/01/08 09:26 PM

Thank you Pedro for all your help....I am also thinking of the Steiner Senator/Military 20x80 binoculars. Would that have the same CA as the Astroluxe? The Steiner is made for military border surveillance and I thought if the military can use it (ignore any CA in it) that I might be able to use it successfully during the day as well.
Do you or anyone here know if the Steiner 20x80 is better than the 18x70 Astoluve for daytime use?
Thank you.
Tony


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hallelujah
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2088764 - 01/01/08 10:06 PM

Quote:



Thanks Hallelujah....I am looking for advice on something about 20x or less for the above type of observation.....hoping it will be briefly handholdable, monopods, and very light tripodable...

I noticed you have a lot of the Pentaxes...are they good? How do they compare to the large Steiner? I am just looking for sharpness during the day....what do you suggest are some good options? I would like something of a higher quality since these will be a lifetime keeper bino....

Thanks very much.
Tony




Tony,

For the money, the Pentax PCF WP binoculars are excellent for "general everything far away daytime observations", however, the very narrow FOV of the 20x @ 2.2 degrees and the 16x @ 2.8 degrees would be a major drawback to most people.

Cloce focus of 26' is very good for a 16x60mm and 20x60mm porro prism, equal to the Swarovski 15x56mm roof prism.

The 16x60mm has been discontinued for awhile, but still available from time to time.
The 20x60mm today costs around $230 and obviously would not be in the same overall class as the Fujinon 16x70mm FMT-SX, or the Nikon AstroLuxe 18x70mm, or the Canon 18x50mm IS binoculars.

I would suggest looking at some of the cloudynights reviews on the Pentax 16x or 20x to get a general familiarization with the product. Pentax 20x60mm

The Steiner Senator/Military 20x80mm's are not generally seen in stores, so, I have not had the opportunity of holding or looking through them. I have read the occasional reviews on the Steiner Senator and the Steiner Observer 25x80mm and comments have been favorable.

As far as a 20x being briefly hand holdable, the more you practice the more confident you will become, especially if you sit in a chair, sit on the ground, lean against a tree, lean against a building, or lean against a boulder.

I have used both a Manfrotto self-standing monopod and a Manfrotto lightweight tripod with excellent results during the daytime with the Pentax PCF WP models.

For long distance viewing during the daytime I have always found higher magnifications to be more desirable than lower powers.

My complaints against the Nikon 18x70mm would be the close focus distance for daytime use as well as the lack of a conventional tripod adapter. (Internet specifications seem to list 243'). I don't know how much of a problem Individual Focus would present for daytime viewing.

--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth


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Rick
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2088767 - 01/01/08 10:07 PM

Quote:

Hi Rick...I actually just bought the Canon IS 15x50 but planning to return them since I am looking for a pair of bino that can last a lifetime and I think that most things with electronics in them can break down anytime...That is why I plan on returning them for something like the Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe which may last a lifetime.




I think that would be a mistake.

Unless you think that may regularly use your binos at sea during a typhoon I don't think you will ever need the ruggedness built into the Nikons or Fuji's. And just because some military chose Steiners does not mean they are the best optically, just that Steiner was the lowest bidder!

While it is certainly possible the electronics in the Canons may give out, they are not needed for the Canon to still be useful. FWIW, I have yet to read a report of IS failure. Most Canon users will say the views are actually a little sharper with the IS fuction off anyway. Even more so in the 18x version I would guess.

cheers,
Rick

--------------------
www.japanastro.com

Edited by Rick (01/01/08 10:09 PM)


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tonyhuynh
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: Rick]
      #2089019 - 01/02/08 12:31 AM

Thank you Hallelelujah for letting me know that the 20x are hand-holdable...Also if you said your Pentaxes are good during the day, do you think the Steiner 20x80 or Nikon Astroluxe will be better during the day since they cost much more? Some people have said that the Nikon has too much CA during the day...is your Pentaxes better during the day regarding CA? Thanks Hallelujah.

Hi Rick....what do you think about the performance of the Canon 18x50 during the day? Is it just as sharp as the 15x50 IS? Also how much worse are the shakes? I would guess that for day use the shakes are less annoying than at night looking at stars? Please advise. Thanks Rick.
Tony


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pedro
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: tonyhuynh]
      #2089384 - 01/02/08 09:01 AM

Hello Tony

I don't know if you know these 18x50's mini-reviews - if not I believe it maybe could help you with some more information and impression:

http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/Canon%2018x50%20IS.htm

regards Pedro


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Les
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: hallelujah]
      #2089488 - 01/02/08 10:12 AM

Quote:

My complaints against the Nikon 18x70mm would be the close focus distance for daytime use as well as the lack of a conventional tripod adapter. (Internet specifications seem to list 243'). I don't know how much of a problem Individual Focus would present for daytime viewing.




Good points about the Nikon. I had forgotten about them.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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pedro
super member


Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again new [Re: Les]
      #2089535 - 01/02/08 10:38 AM

Hi all

For a 18X high powered binoculars I can't find bad the fact to they do not work for some close focus distance since 18X is more suitable for some long distant targets and not to some 50mts close objects which could be (IMO) better explored using some 7X binoculars...18X is too much to such some close subject.
Regarding the tripod adapter they are available in some binoculars dealers- it is a bit expensive side by side with the regular ones but they are also like the 18x70's quality a very well made piece, and these Nikon adapter could be used also to some another binoculars which carry the central post - some one like the Zeiss 15x60.
The individual focusing system is more suitable for astronomical use however to my taste the individual focusing system allows a better precise focus than the central one and also it avoid better some kind of future optical misallignament more often present in some central focus system binoculars.

regards Pedro


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jrweisner
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe Choice again [Re: pedro]
      #2090111 - 01/02/08 02:39 PM

Hi Tony

the big statements from Pedro are correct and true.
The 18x70 is designed for extremely long distances.
This bino is used by be for terrestrial viewings up to 100 kilometers from my appartement on the ALTKOENIG hill nearby Frankfurt.
Ten years ago I owned a Steiner Rallye 20x80.
Very bad quality, please do not ask me for more details.
I sent a letter to the company but they have never answered.
Please DO NOT use any of these Steiner models.
In my opinion the Nikon 18x70 is the first choice.
I do NOT agree with Phil Harringtons test from 2003.
The good Fujinon is really not better than the excellent Nikon.
The very good Zeiss is not water and fog proof and the Nikon wears the best coating available.
The differences between the magnification 15x (Zeiss)and 16x (Fujinon) to the 18x (Nikon) combined with his superb 72 FOV results into a clear decision for the NIKON 18x70.

Regards form Germany
Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Vixen 127/F4 2-lenses Photaron with Nagler 12mm T4
Docter 40x80 ED


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