tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Hello everyone,
Has anyone looked through this bino during the day? If you could choose one of the following and keep, not sell which would you take:
1. Fuji 16x70
2. Nikon 18x70
3. Steiner 20x80 Senator
I know that many will probably take the Nikon but could you explain to me some of the pros it has over the other two?
I am willing to wait and save up the extra money if the Nikon is indeed sharper/better?
Thanks eveyone.
Tony
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Les
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 730
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
I am willing to wait and save up the extra money if the Nikon is indeed sharper/better?
Some prefer the Nikon over the Fuji for ergonomics, FOV, and light transmission. I don't think anyone would make the argument that it is sharper. It is a very fast design optically and will show quite a bit more CA in daylight viewing than say a birding binocular.
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Les
Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod
Edited by Les (01/01/08 07:26 PM)
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1393
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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Back in the April 2003 Astronomy Magazine, Phil Harrington tested a number of 15-20x ASTRO binoculars. His favorites for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place were:
#1- Zeiss B/GAT 15x60
#2- Fuji FMT-SX 16x70
#3- Nikon Astroluxe 18x70
Perhaps you can find a copy of that issue.
You might want to read this thread from a few years ago:
18x70 vs. 16x70
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2151
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Has anyone looked through this bino during the day?
Tony
What kind of daytime targets will you be looking at?
How much magnification do you really need?
I was using 20x60mm and 20x80mm for daytime, long distance birdwatching, and I had to move up to a 30x80mm to get the magnification I needed. Smaller targets require greater power.
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Thanks Les...
Thanks Rich V......
Thanks Hallelujah....I am thinking of long distance bird/people/mountains watching as well as offshore ships....not really birdings...just general everything far away daytime observations...
I have an 80 mm Sv80S scope for longer distances above 20x...I am looking for advice on something about 20x or less for the above type of observation.....hoping it will be briefly handholdable, monopods, and very light tripodable...
I noticed you have a lot of the Pentaxes...are they good? How do they compare to the large Steiner? I am just looking for sharpness during the day....what do you suggest are some good options? I would like something of a higher quality since these will be a lifetime keeper bino....
Thanks very much.
Tony
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hello Tony
I owned the Fuji 16x70 some years ago and now I own the Nikon 18x70 and like you I use to use my binoculars to some daytime purposes.
To my taste the Nikon are way better to use than the Fuji regarding some things like the ''eye comfort'' (the smaller eyepiece barrel and their better eyerelief really helps a lot during their use) the Nikon carry also a better coating (a nice very high transmission delivering a wonderful transparency giving you that kind of pleasant sensation ‘’no glass in front of your eyes’’) which is in my opinion a step over the Fuji (but not for a dramatic difference because the Fuji is also very good) and finally the Nikon 72º apparent field of view against the 64º in the Fujis which is a very nice feature that I believe is a big difference between both even to some terrestrial daytime purpose…18X added to a wide field of view is a very pleasant detail…I sold also my Takahashi 22x60mm just because they have a narrow 46º apparent field of view…the Nikon have also a better ‘’hand’’ feeling…they looks slim and ‘’light’’ in comparison even having both almost the same size and weight…to some causal handhold watching the Nikon is better in my opinion.
Like the Fuji 16X the Nikon show in some daytime situation some ''high level'' amount of CA (to my particular taste I say) - but normally when using they to a real long distant landscapes this is not a real apparent problem – sometimes you really almost can’t notice nothing looking at some distant green fields, farms, airplanes, etc etc …but I am a very sensitive CA guy then I use to stop their objectives down to ‘’45mm in aperture’’ under the daytime and then the CA drops and be almost invisible even on some very bright objects - using 45mm of aperture under daylight don't change (like some one could imagine) too much the ‘’apparent picture brightness’’ to the eye (but is visible if you take some picture through them) on the resultant images and you get using that small aperture a very clear and sharp terrestrial image with true and still vivid colors ...their fast F/4 70mm objectives changes (after the stoped down process) to a pair of 45mm F/6,2 - and their originally 3,8mm exit pupil changes to a ’’ smaller ‘’ 2,5mm (normally found in some 20x50mm binoculars) The Takahashi 22x60mm for example have a original 2,72mm exit pupil… so this not a real tragedy under the daylight because the eye pupil becomes very small at this time…I found this configuration very comfortable and free of black-outs, etc- under the night sky of course I use them at their full 70mm aperture because the CA is not apparent on the most objects...and here a curious thing is that for example the full moon even using the full aperture they do not show the same amount of CA visible under the daylight.
The Nikon sharpness as a terrestrial glass is very and very good to a high powered 18X binoculars…
The intruse CA is real a bad thing to me under the daytime, and I believe for most of the people who likes to watching using high powered binoculars- but if you can accept the idea to use them sometimes stoped down like me to maybe at 50mm or even better at 45mm – you will get a very sharp, wide and 90% color free pleasant picture with a very relaxed visual sensation under the daylight…and using they at night in their full 70mm aperture – you will have two very good instruments ‘’in just one’’ – well this is just my opinion and own experience - could be not the same to most of the people who don’t accept to change some original binocular conception to get from them some better results under some special situation.
These 18x70's are very very well buit...they are a kind of binoculars whit lifetime durability (if well cared of course) - they are really a very fine optical instrument because they offers at the same time some very good featuresto such a 18Xbinocular like their wide 72º apparent field of view - they are quite waterproof and fog proof nitrogen filled - they have a very precise eyepiece adjustment - the collimation is something really awesome...maybe perfect could I say to my taste and experience - the eye relief is enough even to who wear thin glasses - their external painting and finishing is ''first class AAAA++++'' - the Nikon coating is equal or even the best I found in my previous binoculars (Some Zeiss, Takahashi, Docter, Fujinon) you have IMO - to made short a long explanation that kind of sensation to have in your hands some really ''professional made'' equipment.
Well let me explain that this is just my modest opinion...should better you look for some more 18x70's owners before some decision.
regards Pedro
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Rick
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3045
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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I have owned the Fuji 16x70, the Nikon 18x70 and the Steiner 25x80 Observer.
For daytime use I would take the Canon 18x50IS any day over these three. The optics are world class and the IS is "liberating" to say the least.
clear skies,
Rick
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www.japanastro.com
Edited by Rick (01/01/08 07:42 PM)
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Hello Pedro and thank you so much for your time in writing such a detailed explanation for me. If I get the Nikon I hope I could just ignore the CA...I am not an experience viewer so I can't really see any CA...Thanks Pedro
Hi Rick...I actually just bought the Canon IS 15x50 but planning to return them since I am looking for a pair of bino that can last a lifetime and I think that most things with electronics in them can break down anytime...That is why I plan on returning them for something like the Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe which may last a lifetime.
Pedro and Rick...I have looked through my Canon 15x50 and have not noticed any CA in them. Does that mean that I may have a good chance at not being too bothered by CA in a Nikon Astroluxe?
Thanks Pedro and Rick.
Tony
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3453
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Quote:
For daytime use I would take the Canon 18x50IS any day over these three. The optics are world class and the IS is "liberating" to say the least.
... and for nighttime/astronomical use?
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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Rick
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3045
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Tony, my impression is the CA in the Nikon is pretty severe in daytime.
Wes, I think I would still pick the Canon for astro-gazing given my aversion to tripods.
clear skies,
Rick
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www.japanastro.com
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hello tony
Unfortunatelly I believe you wouldn't be able to almost not notice the 18x70's CA because they are really very apparent sometimes as a Violet color Fringe in one side and as yellowish in another one MAINLY when approaching to the field border under some high contrastant situation - but I repeat - only under some situation while in another almost no one CA is really visible that could bother even me...a very boring guy who uses to be always looking for it every time...
Some people could live with it there without no one kind of ''real problem'' in my case I got my ''trick'' to kill it (stopping it aperture) and now I can live in peace with my binoculars ''really almost free of CA'' under the daylight with very good results.
The 15x50's IS is a different instrument because they carry a kind of special glass element (UD- Ultra-low-dispersion) in their frontal objectives which helps to drop the CA at some low visible levels- the 18x70's DON'T carry these kind of element so the CA is more visible coming they F/4 fast objectives - but, even with the CA there the ‘’sharpness’’ of these 18x70's is not compromised - I tried them on some really distant radio/TV's Anthenas against the bright sky and ''with'' and ''without'' the CA visible (using that stop down aperture option) and easily I proved (to myself) that it very good sharpness/crispness remained always the same - this is in My opinion a signal that they are very and very well corrected in anyway.
With these 18x it’s possible to reach at some very fine and delicated details on some very distant targets like some mettalic building structures – some big anthenas or diatnt power towers, factory roofs, etc, etc...
At the ‘’center of the field’’ the CA is not really ''too much'' apparent (when in a regular use at their full 70mm aperture) under some critical situation- the problem becomes bigger when looking at the ''middle to the border'' part of the FOV...at the extreme border you can see it strong (again I repeat in some situations not in all situation).
When looking at some kind of ''black crow'' flying high against the bright blue sky (with they at their full aperture) is possible to see the CA around they body -but if stoped at 45mm you get a almost 90% free of false color fringe in praticaly all of it FOV.
I hope I can help and not confuse youwith my comments.
regards Pedro
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Tony
I have never tried the MINOX 15x58's but they are also some interesting binoculars in my opinion - which I am planning to test someday who knows.
They are watherproof, they carry the ED element in their objectives and they are very well build and very well regarded in some good reviews..of course they are not perfect as no one bincoular are perfect to all situation...take a look at this review, maybe could be also another problably option to your list:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/big_eyes.html
regards Pedro
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Thank you Pedro for all your help....I am also thinking of the Steiner Senator/Military 20x80 binoculars. Would that have the same CA as the Astroluxe? The Steiner is made for military border surveillance and I thought if the military can use it (ignore any CA in it) that I might be able to use it successfully during the day as well.
Do you or anyone here know if the Steiner 20x80 is better than the 18x70 Astoluve for daytime use?
Thank you.
Tony
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2151
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Thanks Hallelujah....I am looking for advice on something about 20x or less for the above type of observation.....hoping it will be briefly handholdable, monopods, and very light tripodable...
I noticed you have a lot of the Pentaxes...are they good? How do they compare to the large Steiner? I am just looking for sharpness during the day....what do you suggest are some good options? I would like something of a higher quality since these will be a lifetime keeper bino....
Thanks very much.
Tony
Tony,
For the money, the Pentax PCF WP binoculars are excellent for "general everything far away daytime observations", however, the very narrow FOV of the 20x @ 2.2 degrees and the 16x @ 2.8 degrees would be a major drawback to most people.
Cloce focus of 26' is very good for a 16x60mm and 20x60mm porro prism, equal to the Swarovski 15x56mm roof prism.
The 16x60mm has been discontinued for awhile, but still available from time to time.
The 20x60mm today costs around $230 and obviously would not be in the same overall class as the Fujinon 16x70mm FMT-SX, or the Nikon AstroLuxe 18x70mm, or the Canon 18x50mm IS binoculars.
I would suggest looking at some of the cloudynights reviews on the Pentax 16x or 20x to get a general familiarization with the product. Pentax 20x60mm
The Steiner Senator/Military 20x80mm's are not generally seen in stores, so, I have not had the opportunity of holding or looking through them. I have read the occasional reviews on the Steiner Senator and the Steiner Observer 25x80mm and comments have been favorable.
As far as a 20x being briefly hand holdable, the more you practice the more confident you will become, especially if you sit in a chair, sit on the ground, lean against a tree, lean against a building, or lean against a boulder.
I have used both a Manfrotto self-standing monopod and a Manfrotto lightweight tripod with excellent results during the daytime with the Pentax PCF WP models.
For long distance viewing during the daytime I have always found higher magnifications to be more desirable than lower powers.
My complaints against the Nikon 18x70mm would be the close focus distance for daytime use as well as the lack of a conventional tripod adapter. (Internet specifications seem to list 243'). I don't know how much of a problem Individual Focus would present for daytime viewing.
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Rick
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3045
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Quote:
Hi Rick...I actually just bought the Canon IS 15x50 but planning to return them since I am looking for a pair of bino that can last a lifetime and I think that most things with electronics in them can break down anytime...That is why I plan on returning them for something like the Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe which may last a lifetime.
I think that would be a mistake.
Unless you think that may regularly use your binos at sea during a typhoon I don't think you will ever need the ruggedness built into the Nikons or Fuji's. And just because some military chose Steiners does not mean they are the best optically, just that Steiner was the lowest bidder!
While it is certainly possible the electronics in the Canons may give out, they are not needed for the Canon to still be useful. FWIW, I have yet to read a report of IS failure. Most Canon users will say the views are actually a little sharper with the IS fuction off anyway. Even more so in the 18x version I would guess.
cheers,
Rick
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www.japanastro.com
Edited by Rick (01/01/08 10:09 PM)
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Thank you Hallelelujah for letting me know that the 20x are hand-holdable...Also if you said your Pentaxes are good during the day, do you think the Steiner 20x80 or Nikon Astroluxe will be better during the day since they cost much more? Some people have said that the Nikon has too much CA during the day...is your Pentaxes better during the day regarding CA? Thanks Hallelujah.
Hi Rick....what do you think about the performance of the Canon 18x50 during the day? Is it just as sharp as the 15x50 IS? Also how much worse are the shakes? I would guess that for day use the shakes are less annoying than at night looking at stars? Please advise. Thanks Rick.
Tony
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hello Tony
I don't know if you know these 18x50's mini-reviews - if not I believe it maybe could help you with some more information and impression:
http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/Canon%2018x50%20IS.htm
regards Pedro
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Les
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 730
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
My complaints against the Nikon 18x70mm would be the close focus distance for daytime use as well as the lack of a conventional tripod adapter. (Internet specifications seem to list 243'). I don't know how much of a problem Individual Focus would present for daytime viewing.
Good points about the Nikon. I had forgotten about them.
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Les
Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hi all
For a 18X high powered binoculars I can't find bad the fact to they do not work for some close focus distance since 18X is more suitable for some long distant targets and not to some 50mts close objects which could be (IMO) better explored using some 7X binoculars...18X is too much to such some close subject.
Regarding the tripod adapter they are available in some binoculars dealers- it is a bit expensive side by side with the regular ones but they are also like the 18x70's quality a very well made piece, and these Nikon adapter could be used also to some another binoculars which carry the central post - some one like the Zeiss 15x60.
The individual focusing system is more suitable for astronomical use however to my taste the individual focusing system allows a better precise focus than the central one and also it avoid better some kind of future optical misallignament more often present in some central focus system binoculars.
regards Pedro
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jrweisner
member
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 50
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Hi Tony
the big statements from Pedro are correct and true.
The 18x70 is designed for extremely long distances.
This bino is used by be for terrestrial viewings up to 100 kilometers from my appartement on the ALTKOENIG hill nearby Frankfurt.
Ten years ago I owned a Steiner Rallye 20x80.
Very bad quality, please do not ask me for more details.
I sent a letter to the company but they have never answered.
Please DO NOT use any of these Steiner models.
In my opinion the Nikon 18x70 is the first choice.
I do NOT agree with Phil Harringtons test from 2003.
The good Fujinon is really not better than the excellent Nikon.
The very good Zeiss is not water and fog proof and the Nikon wears the best coating available.
The differences between the magnification 15x (Zeiss)and 16x (Fujinon) to the 18x (Nikon) combined with his superb 72 FOV results into a clear decision for the NIKON 18x70.
Regards form Germany
Juergen
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Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Vixen 127/F4 2-lenses Photaron with Nagler 12mm T4
Docter 40x80 ED
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Thank you Pedro...I am not worried about the close focus issue or the individual focus. I plan to use the 18x70 Astroluxe for very long distance day time use mainly. I will use 10x bino for closer objects. I am quite easy to please so do you think it will be ok for me to use the Nikon for very long distance landscape daytime viewing? I am not sure I really fully understand what CA is. Will the CA degrade the view to a point where the image is less sharp? that is, a little fuzzy? If the image remains clear with only some colors then that would be fine to me. Thanks Pedro.
Thank you Les....
Thank you Juergen....You said you have use the 18x70 during the day for very long distance viewing? I know there will be CA but are the views during the day still sharp? crystal clear? Also do you think the Nikon is slightly better than the 16x70 Fuji? Do you rate the Fuji as "GOOD"....the Zeiss as "VERY GOOD" ....and the Nikon as "EXCELLENT". Are you saying the Nikon is the best of the three based on your opinion? Please advise. Thanks for the warning about the Steiner also.
Best Regards,
Tony
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jrweisner
member
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 50
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Tony,
you can find some personal statements in my older posts concerning the Fuji 16x70 and the Nikon 18x70.
I owned both binos together for some months.
The CA is better controlled by the Nikon - please note it has a HIGHER magnification.
Every fast achromatic 2 lenses objective produces some visible CA.
The image from the Nikon is unbelievable excellent for daylight viewing.
Sharp and clear.
It is my best model into my little collection and I always prefer it for observing and viewing into the country and to the stars.
The Nikon is the best choice of the three models by comparing all features and weighting the differences.
Best regards and good night
Juergen
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Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Vixen 127/F4 2-lenses Photaron with Nagler 12mm T4
Docter 40x80 ED
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hi Tony
Quote:
Thank you Pedro... I am quite easy to please so do you think it will be ok for me to use the Nikon for very long distance landscape daytime viewing?Quote:
Of course - to some very long distance landscapes you will get with the 18x70's some very clear, bright and really sharp picture with nice natural colors - for such situation depending on of the daytime hour you will not see any trace of CA in anywhere plave of the entire field of view - the CA use to be more visible on some bright objects and when they are seen against the bright sky or under a strong sunny day, but when watching a distant landscape they are not strongly present...the field of view is wide so you will get a very relaxed and pleasant picture, something like a sensation of
freedom.
Quote:
I am not sure I really fully understand what CA is. Will the CA degrade the view to a point where the image is less sharp? that is, a little fuzzy? If the image remains clear with only some colors then that would be fine to me. Quote:
Please read again what I wrote about these before in my posts:
''Even with the CA there the '’sharpness’’ of these 18x70's is not compromised - I tried them on some really distant radio/TV's Anthenas against the bright sky and ''with'' and ''without'' the CA visible (using that stop down aperture option to the test) and easily I proved (to myself) that it very good sharpness/crispness remained always the same - with or without (stoping down the aperture) the CA visible there- this is in My opinion a signal that they are very and very well corrected in anyway.
Better explaining- I tried to stop the CA to check if the sharpness would be increased free of it but NOT...the very sharp image with the CA around remained very sharp without it there- the CA do not disturb the sharpness at some visual level in these 18x70's...their optics are really top / premium.
To understand a bit better about the chromatic aberration / lateral color/color fringing please access:
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Optical/chromatic_aberration_01.htm
http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/chromatic.html
regards Pedro.
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Tony
Sorry but I made a gret mess in my previous post...
Well i would like to comment some more things.
Having a 18x70's in your hands - if the CA issue becomes to be ‘’a very bad thing hard to accept in anyway with no solution'' - you will still have a good chance to put in front of their objectives ( to stop it aperture down) a pair of slim ''black card disc'' (or a black ‘’plastic’’ disc depending on your material taste) with a external diameter of 88 milimeters and with a central hole measuring 45mm or 50mm.
In my case I use this ‘’trick’’ with very nice results - to fix them there in front of the objectives lenses I use to unscrew (with extremely care of course- this will not damage their threads) the metallic frontal objective external ring (the objectives external finishing that with the red stripe around) and then I put there inside of both metallic caps a card…after this I put them back at their places and then I get the binoculars stoped down to 50mm or 45mm (I prefer 45mm) and free of any CA during the daytime even under some severe bright/contrastant condition – when the night falls I just put off that cards and so I get again a wonderful 70mm in aperture to enjoy the stars…I have to daytime a very wonderful 18x45mm (still bright, clear very very sharp and free of any CA) and a wonderful 18x70mm at the nighttime.
I bought already also a ‘’original extra pair of Nikon plastic objective lens caps’’ on which I will open (at their center) a 45mm hole – so the things will be easily to work - I will need only to fit them in front of the binoculars (like a regular original cap) to have they stoped down fastly.
I owned already some very good binoculars like the Zeiss 15x60 (the old model) the DOCTER 15x60mm - the Takahashi 22x60mm (a True quite free of CA in anyway binoculars) the VIXEN long focal ratio 20x80mm and also some other less expensive like the Pentax 20x60mm, etc etc- these Nikon have the best apparent field of view added to a very comfortable eye relief that I found in any binoculars - their sharpness/crispness is also among the best I’ve seen - their transparency is something magic – even looking at the full Moon you will not experience any kind of light ghosts – you will feel something like ‘’looking at the Moon with nothing in front or…between your eyes and she’’ you will get at 18X some very sharp and detailed views of the Moon.
Please I need to explain again that I am not trying to convince you to go to the 18x70’just because I like and own one of these, I am trying only to show you my honest impression on them, are they perfect? Not of course, but they are really very good.
Their waterproof/fogproof feature have also a very important role in my opinion even if you do not plan to use them never to some sea/boat purpose- In my case I used in the past to forgot some of my binoculars inside of my car just after a rainy day…well, when the sun was shining again high in the sky and my car starts to be very ‘’hot and humid inside’’ I got several times my binoculars fogged !! This is not a problem to a fogproof binoculars- another thing is when using them under a very could night…if you take they to inside of some ‘’hot home’’ you could also get some regular binoculars fogged inside due the higher temperature change…again this is not a problem to a fogproof binoculars…so I prefer them in anyway.
Regards Pedro
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Rick
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3045
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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I think after having looking through the Canon 15x50IS, he will be greatly disappointed with the daytime views through either the Nikon or the Fuji. I think repeatedly trying to refocus an IF bino properly while hiking/handholding would be an excercise in frustration. I think lugging a 70mm 5# bino around my neck on anything but a short walk out to the backyard would require several trips to the chiropractor over my lifetime.
Thats what I think! 
clear skies,
Rick
--------------------
www.japanastro.com
Edited by Rick (01/02/08 06:27 PM)
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hello Rick
I have my doubts about all the people experiencing some ''real disappointment'' when looking through these 18x70 after looking through a Canon 15x50IS... - I tried a Canon 15x50 IS of a friend of mine (at the daylight and under the nightime) and I owned already one of his old brother the 15x45 IS - for my eyes their ''sharpness level'' when IS is turned ''ON''(despite of course with the steady image delivering some easily ''amount of details'' against to a normal handhold situation) is not at the same league of these 18x70's (on a tripod or braced on a table) and also under the nightsky their 50mm objectives wouldn't show in anyway the same ''brightness impact and capacity'' like of these premium Nikon which uses 70mm in aperture (this is a Physical rule and not just my opinion- aperture ever matters and I am talking about the Nikon on a tripod against the IS turned on) they carry also(the Nikon) a kind of ''fantastic and rare quality level coating''which can deliver some ''extreme transparency level'' and free of any gosth on the images...another thing - 18X to my taste are better to any distant target than 15X - even ''and mainly'' when using them to some distant terrestrial landscapes views -but again this is just my opinion.
The Canon 15x50's is also like any high powered binoculars (even using the UD element in their objectives) not quite free of some lateral color error under some severe daylight situation -I could notice some lateral color error under some critical situation and they show also a light yellowish cast on their images, Nikons looks more neutral in my opinion.
The IF focusing system is not a problem if you not use them ''always'' only as a handhold equipment.
regards Pedro
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mmagrunmo
sage
Reged: 04/26/05
Posts: 203
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If I were looking for a 15+ power binocular for DAYLIGHT use, AND WAS NOT GOING TO MOUNT IT, I would choose the Canon IS over the Nikon 18x70.
For astronomy, between the Canon and the Nikon, if the Nikon is mounted, it WINS OUT HANDS DOWN. I had the opportunity to use some 15x IS Canons for a period of time this summer. Once the novelty of the IS wore off, I am not sure I even picked them up some nights when I had my MOUNTED Nikon 18x70s out as well. If you just ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want to use a mount, go with the Canon. If the Nikon will be mounted, comparing these two is not even fair.
My .02
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jrweisner
member
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 50
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Considering Nikon having produced this 2 lens objective for several years, the question might be what other manufacturers try with their 3 lens and high corrected objectives.
In my opinion, there is no manufacturer worldwide who can do it as good as Nikon.
These 50 or 70 mm achromats are just perfect and they will furthermore be a benchmark for highest quality.
Developing the binocular 18x70 took years, and - regarding its 18x magnification - it’s absolutely a top product that, considering all properties, incorporates the reference binocular in high magnification. None of its competitors can outperform it.
Juergen
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Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Vixen 127/F4 2-lenses Photaron with Nagler 12mm T4
Docter 40x80 ED
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Thanks mmagrunmo.... I think I will get a very light tripod so that will be fine when I need to view in details.
Thanks Rick for your comments. What you said makes sense. I would definitely get the Canon 18x50 if I had the money to fix/replace it in 10-15 years. But I am just too afraid of what can happen down the road with all the electronics. I am not saying that it will break down but there is a possibility while with the Nikons I have a better chance of its lasting 30 years or more. My 25 years old Bushnell 7x35 is still going strong. Thanks your your thoughts. I just can't afford the Canon at this point. Also, I think I will get a very light tripod to go with the 18x70 Nikons so I am able to follow that advice. Thanks again for your help. All opinions are much appreciated and will be use later when situation fits it. Thanks Rick.
Hello Pedro... Thanks so much for your detailed help. It is very much appreciated. Thanks for the directions on how to "stop down the bino". I will definitely try it out if I see too much CA. Thanks to yours and Juergen's high opinions of the 18x70, I think it is now at the top of my list. I have less fear now. Thank you.
Thanks Juergen.... your high praise of the Nikon, sepecially your having personnaly used the Nikon during the day to view distanced landscapes have convinced me that the Nikon is the best choice for me and use. Can you tell me more about how you use the Nikon during the day? What tripod, mounts, etc. and more info on what the day time views of distance objects are like. For example the sharpness or any distortion and how much does the CA bothers you? I am actually moving up from a 25 years old Bushnell 7x35 that I received as a child so I am hoping this Nikon will give me that WOW in comparison for the next 50 years. Thanks again.
Regards,
Tony
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3453
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Quote:
[I am actually moving up from a 25 years old Bushnell 7x35 that I received as a child so I am hoping this Nikon will give me that WOW in comparison for the next 50 years./quote]
Tony- with a move like that, I can't see how you couldn't fail to be impressed! Kind of like jumping out of a Toyota Tercel into a Lexus or Porsche!
Am looking at selling a couple of bino's off of mine to fund a pair of the 18x70 Nikon's as well. Have been wanting a pair for a long time, think I may sell a pair of Minox HG Roof's that I have and my Fuji 16x70's. Have been wanting the Nikon's for some time now... think that's the only way I'll be able to make it happen!
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Have you seen Markus Ludes's review in the Reviews section here at Cloudy Nights? You might want to take a look at it:Nikon review
He loves the 18x70, no doubt. I use a new-style Fujinon, never had the honor to try a Nikon. I, and other Fujinon users, think we are happy, but it is hard to be sure after all your Nikon praise.
Regarding Markus' review, his description of imperfect images of bright stars seems consistent with what I see in the Fujinon. Still I am able to do fairly well on double stars. His concluding sentence may of course be completely ignored!
Ron
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Thanks Ron. Markus's review was the only review that I actually could fine so I've read it over and over. I was wondering if we can trust Markus's review since I think that he runs APM (a seller?) Although I am pretty convinced now of the Nikon's quality after hearing such rave reviews on this site by people who have used it.
Hi Wes....Yep, the best bino I have ever looked through is my Bushnell 7x35 Ensign. To me it is very good although I can't seem to get both eyes focused perfectly. I guess I will never be able to buy a Lexus (waste) so this will be my way of treating myself to one luxury in life 
Wes, what don't you like about your Fuji and how do you think the Astroluxe you're planning to get will improve on the views? Thanks.
Tony
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1393
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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I think it's a bit unrealistic for anyone to expect an f/4ish, 15 to 20x achro binocular to provide "pinpoint" bright stars, whether the name starts with "N", "F", "Z" or whatever. The same goes for "perfect" control of CA.
I've been satisfied with the Fujinons; they were far superior to the 15x70 Obies of that time. As far as binoculars go I think they are very good. I, too, have never had a chance to look through the Nikons or the Zeiss; perhaps I would have liked them better. Due to everyone's individuality, the only way to decide ultimately what works best for you is to compare them with your own eyes!
As far as pinpoint stars go, a good small APO refractor will make them all look like they're having a bad day! Binoculars have their strong points but none of them are a perfect optical instrument. I enjoy them for what they do well: widefield two-eyed viewing. I get out a scope if I want to see in-focus diffraction rings and zero CA.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3453
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Quote:
Wes, what don't you like about your Fuji and how do you think the Astroluxe you're planning to get will improve on the views? Thanks
Tony- it isn't that there's anything I don't like about the Fuji's- it's just that if the Nikons have an extra 2x- and superior optics, supposedly a bit better coatings, I'd rather have the Nikons. And to fund the purchase of the Nikons, I'd need to sell a few.... the Fuji 16x70's would be so close to the 18x70 Nikon's that I'd be foolish to keep that much money tied up in so similar a bino.
Wes
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Rick
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3045
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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My only reason for prefering the Nikon 18x70 over the Fuji 16x70 is strictly ergonomic. The Fuji's always left me "tired" from wrestling with the eyerelief. Yes the Nikons seem to put up brighter images and perhaps slightly more nebulosity, but not enought to warrant the 50% price difference. And I feel the Nikon does have some outer field curvature, whereas the Fuji seems flatter. Both seem to have equal amounts of daytime CA. The 2x mag difference is un-noticeable at night and barely so during the day. But if you can't use the Fuji, then the Nikon is certainly best in class.
On the other hand, the Canon 15/18x50IS is about as close to
optical perfection I have seen in any 50mm bino. I also find its ergonomics perfect for handholding. The IS feature is just icing on the cake.
I am with Rich in that if I need the extra aperture and have to use mount then I prefer a small APO like the Sky90 or Borg 101ED.
clear skies,
Rick
--------------------
www.japanastro.com
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hi
For me the main diferences between both are:
A) The Fujinon 16x70's carry two big eyepieces barrels which really bothers me a lot on my nose (I have a little nose!!) I am a 66mm IPD guy...Nikon have a very comfortable small and friendly eyepiece barrels which is a pleasure to my eye sockets and nose.
B) The Fujinon's eye-relief is just 12mm while in the Nikons it is a better 15.4mm..this made a big diference for me (I am not wear glasses).
C) The 18x70's carry a very better( with no doubt) lens coating over the 16x70's...this improve their tranparency and pleasure to all targets.
D) 18X is more effective than 16X under the most circustances.
E) The eyepiece's rotation (focusing job) works smooth, precise and free of any issue in the 18x70's (to my taste) than in the Fuji 16x70's.
F) The Nikon's body is slim and a bit better well balanced in comparison with the 16x70's...these simple things help to fell way better on hands the Nikons over the Fujinons (to some handhold).
G) The neutral/natural standard images in the Nikons is better against some light yellowish cast (at daytime) in the Fujinons.
H) The Nikons looks brights than the Fujinon I believe due their better coatings.
I) The 72º apparent field of view in the Nikons is no doubt better than the apparent 64º of the Fujinons in anyway.
J) Even without a true flat field in the Nikon - I prefer it(large) over the flat Fujinon.
I don't think both should have the same price level having the Nikon some better features over the Fujinons...I don't know if the big diference price would be quite just - but form me it is reasonable due all of the Nikon's benefit.
regards Pedro
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3453
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Hmmm... seems like the only way to truly determine the advantages/disadvantages, which is the best ticket, is for you all to send me a pair of the Nikons and the 15x50/18x50 Canons, and I will test them all side by side, give them a workout under daytime as well as nighttime conditions, and I will report back to you all with a very, very thorough report! I'll provide the Fuji's. Of course, mine are the newer ones, so if someone'd like to throw in an older model Fuji, I'd be most happy to include them in the shootout as well! (Along with any comparable sized Zeiss, Leicas, or other top line  bino's you'd like to see in the comparison)
Yessire Bob, let's make this a bino shootout to remember!!! 
Wes
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Tony,
Well here's another, right here at home in the mini-reviews, but not by one of our members. The translation is a little clumsy, and a table of specs is missing, but it seems pretty clear to me.
Nik vs Fuj vs Tak.
The new style Fujinon (sometimes called the SX2) has improved coatings over the original--looks like my brother-in-law's 10x42 SE to me, not like the green on my older 7x50. With this improvement, ghosts, already slight, are reduced, and the yellow/green color cast that I see with the older coatings is gone.
They couldn't be more right about the large eyepiece and short eye relief issues of the Fujinon. I am lucky to not need glasses, and that my eye sockets and nose structure let me use the thing comfortably. This has to be a show-stopper for a lot of people.
Ron
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jrweisner
member
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 50
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Tony,
I use the Nikon with the Manfrotto 055 and Head 701RC2.
My preferred landscape target is Frankfurt City in a distance of 16 kilometer.
If viewing condition is perfect, I use it up to 40 kilometer.
I am always very satisfied with the quality of the image.
CA is very slightly present, but really NOT disturbing.
The image you see has an extremely high quality.
If I have the chance to look to Mannheim which is 100 km away I use my Pentax with XW 7 for 90 X.
Distance is too high for 18 X.
I also like the Nikon for using it sometimes for some astronomical sightseeing.
Markus Ludes is a German dealer and I can´t share his statements against the bino when used for stargazing.
Who ever has looked up in the dark sky with 18 X and 72 FOV??
It is always fascinating me.
However premium use is for terrestrial viewing.
Regards and good luck!
Juergen
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Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Vixen 127/F4 2-lenses Photaron with Nagler 12mm T4
Docter 40x80 ED
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Thanks Pedro for all your help and advice. I think when I do buy a large bino it will be a Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe. You all have helped convinced me that it is the best for my use.
Thank you Rick from Japan...
Thank you Ron Harper for the links...
And Thank you Juergen from Germany... I think it was your high praise of the Nikon, especially having actually used the Nikon during the day for long distance landscape viewing that convinced me the Nikon is perfect for me.
Thanks to all who have put in any input. It's much appreciated!
Tony
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Lamb0
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 1328
Loc: Fairbury, Nebraska
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That's a fine offer Wes, but you'll have to pry my 15X80 Steiner's from my cold dead hands! I went observing Friday on the packed snow with the Mortar and my Steiners; aperture Rules. The 18X70 Nikons have about the same TFoV as my Steiners, and more power, but also more weight - these weigh 58oz, not 5 lbs, yet they're still waterproof, nitrogen purged and solidly built. For night use the lower magnification comes in handy keeping my favorites in view. The lighter weight of the Steiners is less tiresome when held by hand and they came with a tripod adapter for when I acquire one. These are actually model 416 Military which includes the compass/rangefinder - very handy when I'm storm spotting, or identifying aircraft - such as the space shuttle as it passed over Nebraska. 
I admit, the compass intrudes into the lower third of the right eyepiece, but I'm left eye dominant anyway - it doesn't bother me at all in dark skies. Yes, there is modest CA, as well as a little astigmatism, but as Pedro explained, there is a simple cure, install a field stop to lengthen the f/ratio. It was fairly obvious at night at the edge of the field, but not not objectionable for such fast optics. If I were more of a true binocular afficianado, I would have been looking for 20X80s with at least a 500mm Fl weighing in at over 8 lbs. I'm used to testing my optics at night. I hadn't noticed it much during the day - with a 375mm FL and ~4 deg TFoV I wasn't expecting perfection. The Steiners have ~60 deg AF @ f/4.7 vs 72 deg AF @ f/4 for the 18X70 Nikons - no doubt why Nikon pays such special attention to the coatings, they Need to, for both the objectives And the eyepieces for such quality performance. The icing on the cake, for me, was the price - $400 Less than the Nikons. These are a discontinued model, the compass/rangefinder uses passive illumination instead of the active illumination of the new version. For some reason, I seem to have this propensity for accumulating red flashlights; I didn't feel it necessary to pay for the latest "feature". 
However, for daytime use, I tend to agree with Rick. Magnification rules the daytime, within the focal distance, and the ability to fit within the FOV with a large sweet spot. It should be easier to maintain a longer f/ratio, preserving the hand held ease of use, yet reducing the CA and astigmatism, with a good IS binocular. Extra magnification also helps me spot smaller, yet brighter targets with my 12X50s at least as well, if not better, as a friend's 10X60s. 18X50s would be my preference for daytime use; lighter, longer f/ratio, probably less CA and astigmatism, with my 12X50s as a waterproof back-up. For the short term, my choice was aperture over magnification. The improvements in IS tech appear to be advancing faster than the long proven compromises with more standard binoculars. Look how much the prisms, servos, electronics, magnification, multi axis control, weatherproofing, and battery life have improved since IS binos were first introduced. I needed aperture more now, I can grab improved IS tech later; water proof please, with fewer dead batteries. Buy for what you need most NOW, NOT 30 years from now. I'm not waiting for the UNOPTOCULAR. 
--------------------
John, "Have eyepiece - will travel!"
8" f/5 Dob w/2.14" sec in a 12" alum tube 'The Mortar' - w/PCorr 2.16° TFoV @ ~32.5X 70+% illum *Yes!*
24Pan, 5-8 SW, 3 Faworskis (16.8, 10.5, & 7mm), TMB 3.2mm, Hyp 36mm Aspheric, 20T5, & 14ES100
Other 2": Paracorr (Green Parrot), 2X PowerMate, Antares 1.6X Barlow, Astronomik Hß, (older) Lumicon UHC & OIII
60mm $50 Walmart Special in training - aka "Backpack Observatory"
Binoculars: Minolta Activa 12x50s & Steiner 15X80s
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Thanks Pedro for all your help and advice. I think when I do buy a large bino it will be a Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe. You all have helped convinced me that it is the best for my use.
Hello Tony
Just as a ''final'' comment (I apologize for some English errors) - I was watching some distant landscapes using the 18x70 yestarday on a ''middle-sized'' mountain far something around 30kms from my city...
I was there at 3:00 P.M. seated comfortable and using a wood table as support to my arms - the air was clear and clean (due any recent rainy days) free of some distant fog so I got there some really ''clean view'' from about 50kms or so...maybe what I saw (my impressions) could help you in some way.
The 18x70's was opened at this time at their regular 70mm- I was trying to check how visible should be the CA (Chromatic aberration) on a distant landscape.
Well I need to admit that in the center of the field of view I can't notice nothing wrong with the image- only at the very edge (when looking staright at it) I could notice some false color but in anyway a intruder thing.
The image was clear and very sharp - I could see some distant (maybe 5kms but I don’t know exactly – I am bad with distances) white cows when eating the green vegetation (maybe some grass) there – the white farm fence was also very sharp and perfect through them …on the farm’s house wall I could distinguish her fine bricks lines - also I tried a distant white water tank (against the green vegetation) with no problem with some intruder false color too.
I watched also my city (as said before something 30kms away) and I could see his white buildings and constructions very well- again no one CA was a problem for me when looking at such distance…of course the worse thing when looking at the daytime mainly at such distance are those heat waves …but regarding the binoculars …no problem.
Their transparency, sharpness and relaxed views sensation (added with the 72 AFOV) are some of fantastic things for a high 18X powered binoculars -they are really very well made – optically and mechanically – for distant landscapes or night sky the IF feature is not a problem in anyway because you seldom would be refocusing them.
Black crowns flying showed yes some lateral false color but not all of the entire landscape…this shows that the CA’s issue is just a kind of thing really to see under some real severe conditions and at some nearest objects.
The 72 AFOV is a pleasure to use for some distant daytime targets (and of course at nighttime)…you feel like looking trough a window (with no glass between your eyes and the scenery) and 18X is a very good power to brings you some very fine details.
Also last night I used them to watch the wonderful starry sky – they are really IMO a very very nice pair of binoculars for both of the worlds – I got some very nice views of some star cluster on the Scorpion’s region and at some Southern constellations as the South Cross, Alpha Centaury, etc – and to finish - this could be a kind of ‘’strange and crazy’’ comment for some people – but these Nikon have also a very very nice and pleasant smell!
In my opinion they deserves their price and they are for me with no doubt a lifetime keeper!
Regards Pedro
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tonyhuynh
sage
Reged: 04/09/07
Posts: 439
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
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Hello Pedro... Actually I must admit that I am one of those who likes the smell of my bino too...Thank you so much for your help. Enjoy the views from Brazil and have a wondeful New Year. Take care.
Regards,
Tony
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