guyinthesky
sage
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 330
Loc: western ma.
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can anyone help identify what year these were made, the brand (will post nametag in next post) and what they might be worth ? there are crosshairs and numbers so i guess they are not suited to astronomy. maybe the ojectives would be good for a telescope project? any info appreciated.thanks, john
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Zhumell 12" dob
celestron c100ed-r gt cg-5
meade 5" telestar reflector
just enuf naglers
astro-tech 66ed
celestron C9 1/4
oberwerk 100-45
ALVAN CLARK and SONS 3 inch refractor
canon 350d
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guyinthesky
sage
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 330
Loc: western ma.
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heres the nametag. looks like nh5 or nhb. john
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Zhumell 12" dob
celestron c100ed-r gt cg-5
meade 5" telestar reflector
just enuf naglers
astro-tech 66ed
celestron C9 1/4
oberwerk 100-45
ALVAN CLARK and SONS 3 inch refractor
canon 350d
Edited by guyinthesky (04/27/08 12:59 PM)
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guyinthesky
sage
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 330
Loc: western ma.
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heres a better look.
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Zhumell 12" dob
celestron c100ed-r gt cg-5
meade 5" telestar reflector
just enuf naglers
astro-tech 66ed
celestron C9 1/4
oberwerk 100-45
ALVAN CLARK and SONS 3 inch refractor
canon 350d
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RobertPL
newbie
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Austin, TX
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Those letters actually stand for 'PNB'. More info here:
http://www.telescopes.ru/product.html?cat=3&prod=4
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guyinthesky
sage
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 330
Loc: western ma.
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thanks robert 
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Zhumell 12" dob
celestron c100ed-r gt cg-5
meade 5" telestar reflector
just enuf naglers
astro-tech 66ed
celestron C9 1/4
oberwerk 100-45
ALVAN CLARK and SONS 3 inch refractor
canon 350d
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Reverie
member
Reged: 03/27/08
Posts: 28
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It is notable for its "excellent" optical performance. In some countries, most likely countries armed their forces with Soviet weapons, stargazers there would try to get one for themselves. Hence, these giant binoculars are getting rare in those nations. In a way, those are collector items now.
I don't know how "excellent" that would be, as it contains so many elements. However for those unable to get giant binocular other than this one, they think it excellent with no doubt. That is the situation during cold war era.
Thanks for the link, I have never heard of band-new items being sold on Net. 
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Airrider
member
Reged: 04/27/08
Posts: 12
Loc: Waiting In The Air (damn altit...
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First time I've ever seen a pair that big!
Or mounted.
...or...well, either of those things, ever, connected to a pair of binoculars.
...and that it looks like Johnny 5's head.
Are there many other sets like this?
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"What've you been doing for the last fifteen years? Driving 'round tight bends on television going 'POWERRRR!'..."
~James May, to Jeremy Clarkson~
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holger_merlitz
sage
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
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These PNB are extreme wide angle binoculars (90 degs. AFOV) with very sophisticated eyepieces (7 lens elements if I remember correctly). In reasonable condition they can still sell for 2000 US$, so better leave them in one piece. The objectives have a short focal length and are non APO, so there is a considerable amount of chromatic aberration, that's why they are not usable as telescope optics. At just 15x power they are OK.
It must be nice to use them under dark skies to observe the milky-way or comets, although I guess the stars would look somewhat distorted towards the edge of field (I never used these binoculars for astronomy though).
Best,
Holger
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Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
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Quote:
These PNB are extreme wide angle binoculars (90 degs. AFOV) with very sophisticated eyepieces (7 lens elements if I remember correctly)
I think they can be found here:
http://www.telescopes.ru/product.html?cat=3&prod=5
There is the optical schematics, too.
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holger_merlitz
sage
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
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Yes, thanks, here one can see the details. If the sketch is correct then there is a large air gap between both objective lenses - a tele-objective design which allows for a shorter body length. The prism is a roof, but a very unusual design - perhaps first introduced by Emil Busch with their 10x80 during the 1930s? I am not sure about that.
Actually I had come across this web page. One year ago (or little more) I tried a couple of times to contact these guys in Novosibirsk to inquire about the price of these binoculars. I never received any response.
Best,
Holger
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Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
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Quote:
to inquire about the price of these binoculars
Hi Holger,
someone seems to sell them, apart of the Novosibirsk guys. But its price IMHO makes it out of range ...
http://www.opticsale.com/newcon-optik-binocular-15x110-bigeye15x110-tripod-giant-binoculars.html
http://www.binocularsdirect.com/NewCon_Binoculars/dpbilczlcymclj.html
Here a review in Italian ( :-) :
http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/15x110/15x110.php
... Google translated in English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.binomania.it%2Fbinocoli%2F15x110%2F15x110.php&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=it&ie=UTF-8
Bye.
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holger_merlitz
sage
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
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Yes, the price of 6000+ $ is overinflated. I think it was about half of that for a new unit not so long ago (of course the Dollar has dropped a lot during the last 2 years). Anyway it may be wiser to purchase them directly in Russia, but I am not sure if they are still made.
Cheers,
Holger
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Reverie
member
Reged: 03/27/08
Posts: 28
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I received a very bad comment on it.
"Forget it. Its performance is really really bad. I once used it in XingLong just to discover that it had very low contrast and poor color correction.
Needless to say it gave me a very bad experience in star gazing. Only few stars were observable inside the binocular despite its 5 inch aperture. I soon realized that it is the special coating and poor prism that contribute to its incompetence. ( I mean in astro-usage. )
This is not difficult to understand - the first priority in military item is robust, not comfortable and charm in viewing."
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Where are the stars now? Where would I have to go in order to see them?
I walk forth into this fractured world, yet my thoughts were forever of the sky.
~Reverie Planetarian~
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holger_merlitz
sage
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
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This may be a point - they were made for large angle terrestrial viewing and not for perfect star images. But could they be that bad? I remember they were fine during daylight, including CA which was visible in the outer regions of the field but absent near the center. Maybe, your friend had got a particularly poor sample, it won't be the first example for an excessive quality scattering with Russian optics.
No doubt, for astro use and when considering the price tag of this unit, there are plenty of better choices on the market.
Holger
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Airrider
member
Reged: 04/27/08
Posts: 12
Loc: Waiting In The Air (damn altit...
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I guess it'd work up to a point, where its sheer "I can now look farther" power doesn't also come with a drop in quality.
But nothing can beat a purpose-built set of lenses for star viewing.
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"What've you been doing for the last fifteen years? Driving 'round tight bends on television going 'POWERRRR!'..."
~James May, to Jeremy Clarkson~
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dOP
journeyman
Reged: 12/07/07
Posts: 44
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Quote:
I received a very bad comment on it.
"Forget it. Its performance is really really bad. I once used it in XingLong just to discover that it had very low contrast and poor color correction.
Needless to say it gave me a very bad experience in star gazing. Only few stars were observable inside the binocular despite its 5 inch aperture. I soon realized that it is the special coating and poor prism that contribute to its incompetence. ( I mean in astro-usage. )
This is not difficult to understand - the first priority in military item is robust, not comfortable and charm in viewing."
I wouldn't trust this source, this doesn't make any sense..
First sentence:
If a 110mm, $6000.00, military binocular with a 7.3mm exit pupil has very low contrast (at night or dusk), probably it is opaque.. Somebody confused black paint with MgF..
Second sentence:
Even the worst piece of junk I can find for $100.00 would show me at least as many stars as I can see naked eye (with the lens cap's off).
AFAIK, the only special coatings binoculars use, are there to maximize the light transmission, not the opposite (although it can work both ways if not applied correctly). Even $200.00 binoculars have fair coatings.
Third sentence:
Robustness, not viewing? Why not use a rock instead? It doesn't get more robust than that and according to the "review" it is as transparent as those binos..
Those Russians...
Edited by dOP (05/03/08 09:31 PM)
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Reverie
member
Reged: 03/27/08
Posts: 28
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Spending 6000 for just a 110mm is not make sense, either.
I have seen many cases in which Chinese, Russian or Japanese products (eyepieces, binoculars, EQ mounts, just name a few) being transported to western countries and sold twice or even triple of their original prices there. Strange is that people there still consider those are real bargains.
There are also 60mm refractors asking for $1999.
I won't judge products' performance from their prices.
Back to the topic, it is not a surprise that some military scopes tend to show low contrast or yellowish image, as they employ special coating such as Ta2O5, combining with SiO2, to ease the damage of vision caused by laser.
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Where are the stars now? Where would I have to go in order to see them?
I walk forth into this fractured world, yet my thoughts were forever of the sky.
~Reverie Planetarian~
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dOP
journeyman
Reged: 12/07/07
Posts: 44
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Quote:
they employ special coating such as Ta2O5, combining with SiO2
They use special and removable filters for that. It would be a bit silly observing the sky with them on...
Even if they are sold for $6000.00 and made for $1000.00, that's enough money in Russia to manufacture a decent thing. And if they are really made for the military, they can't be that bad.
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Airrider
member
Reged: 04/27/08
Posts: 12
Loc: Waiting In The Air (damn altit...
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Anybody got a sort of ballpark figure for when sheer magnification power like in one of these kinds of scopes starts to come at the cost of clarity?
You know, like relative size, length...what type, what kinds of filters...if any...
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"What've you been doing for the last fifteen years? Driving 'round tight bends on television going 'POWERRRR!'..."
~James May, to Jeremy Clarkson~
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dOP
journeyman
Reged: 12/07/07
Posts: 44
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The image starts to get darker from the moment the exit pupil gets smaller than your eye's pupil.
This means that if you're using a 10x50 during the day, you're probably wasting some light because your pupils are probably smaller than 5mm. During night, the story may be different obviously...
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 431
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The U. S. Navy recently bought some of the Kazan (KOMZ) 20 x 110, with stands. Why, and for what purpose? That is a more complicated ( too complicated) prism setup than the Novosibirsk 15 x 110 under discusssion. Mike Rivkin ( "Deutsche Optik"), Mitch at Sovietski, and Vladimir Wolf, were all selling those two models at much lower prices just a few years ago. Every one I saw had yellowish tint in the images, and were out of collimation .
But the field of the 15 x 110 is impressive, and I did not have complaints about images, other than the collimation and yellow glass problems. That is an elegant design, which deserves better glass and mechanical quality control .
In DK eyewitness travel series "Cuba", a beautifully illustrated guide to travel there, there appears on p. 239 a photo of a mounted KOMZ 20 x 110 ( 90 deg. field, 60 (?) viewing inclination , at an observation post called Mirador los Maloes, which overlooks the U. S. installation at Guantanamo. Perhaps somebody wanted to find out what the Cubans could see, and decided to recommend that the U. S. Navy buy some?
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holger_merlitz
sage
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
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Hi Gordon,
The fact that the US Navy bought these 20x110 implies that they still regard them higher than the current Chinese products - perhaps due to the wider field of view? I once asked one guy in Kunming whether they were planning to build something of similar design, but unfortunately he thought there would be no way. Todays customers always ask for low weight, the heavy units simply do not sell. As a result, the prisms are usually undersized and we have to live with narrow fields of view or small exit pupils.
A friend of mine owns one of these 15x110, and it is also out of collimation. Do you happen to know how to fix them? Once I find some time I would try to collimate them but so far I have no clue which screw to turn :-)
Cheers,
Holger
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Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
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Quote:
But the field of the 15 x 110 is impressive, and I did not have complaints about images, other than the collimation
Maybe this link can be some useful?
http://www.telescopes.ru/manuals/pnb1/pnb1_manual.phtml
Bye.
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11748
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I have looked through one of these at twilight. With such a large exit pupil you would expect a bright view, and the view was bright and clear. I did not look at stars. They cost about $3000 a few years ago at online sources.
It is an attractive binocular style-wise, but the fit and finish don't come close to the competition. Very very rough metal work on the fork and mount. It is heavy for its size. If I am not mistaken it also features that common Russian optical "yellow" tinge in the view due to one of the glass elements. This binocular would be fun to have if it could be gotten cheaply, but given the huge selection of good quality Chinese giant binoculars, it is not a good buy today.
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 180
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Hi, on my website, you can find a review here: http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/15x110/15x110.php
unfortunately it's in italian language but you can unterstand by babelfilsh altavita (i hope :-)
Best
Pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
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Quote:
Hi, on my website, you can find a review here: http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/15x110/15x110.php
Hi, I've alredy mentioned your page, with a link to the Google translated one :-)
Quote:
unfortunately it's in italian
E c'hai ragione, nun ce se capisce un c... ehm ... tubbo! ;-)
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 431
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Re: prism in Novosibirsk 15 x 110 and prism in Busch 10 x 80 with 45 deg inclination from World War II ( Holger Merlitz). I have never been inside the 15 x 110,nor do I have a specimen, but have been inside many Busch design 10 x 80, and have a copy of its plans (via a WW II Leitz file, about 100 pages,which I found after extensive research, fragments of which appear in the Seeger book(without credit)). The roof angle tolerance in the Busch design's Schmidt prism is 10 seconds of arc. While the 10 x 80 offsets the beam( center of outgoing beam to the eyepiece is offset laterally with respect to the center of the beam entering the prism from the center of the objective lens), I believe that the roof splits the light cone (asymmetrically). I have seen barely detectable( at 10x) double images in one or two Busch built (cxn) 10 x 80, but never in a Schneider (dkl) nor in a Leitz (beh). There exist 20 x 80 which used the same eyepiece as the Zeiss 12 x 60. Were those prisms made to a tighter roof tolerance?
The 15 x 110 prism, which is not a Schmidt prism, seems to have a much greater offset laterally, so much that one can consider the possibility that the roof line does not split the cone ( Amici II), with 30 deg overall deviation of the line of sight, in the case of the 15 x 110 from Novosibirsk. Any 15 x 110 split, if it exists, is very asymmetic. When a roof prism does not split the beam, the roof angle tolerance can be much looser. Errors in the roof angle, in this case, result in image rotation, rather than double images.
With all the oil money in Siberia , one can hope that someone will invest in the optical factory in Novosibirsk, to diversify local industry, and improve the mechanisms and the glass.
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GlennLeDrew
sage
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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At NEAF in 2002 I looked through a pair and was astonished at the prominent yellowish cast. It didn't appear as though there were yellow filters in place, either. Many other Russian optics I've used delivered yellowish images as well, and there absolutely were no filters causing it. I think some glass types they use(d) did at least some of this, as well as the choice of coating thickness (hence transmission color.)
To me, the most impressive aspect of these beasties was the huge apparent field of view.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 431
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The path of the August total solar eclipse passes near or on Novosibirsk. I shall not attend, but if there is a binocular fan visiting that part of Siberia at the eclipse, perhaps they could find out why the Tal factory does not use clear glass, etc.
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hallelujah
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1435
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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IOR B/GA 10x42 binoculars come with attached objective caps which contain yellow filters for low light situations.
http://www.valdada.com/product/eab76668-4518-4099-82b2-26e37cad7653.aspx
Supposedly, some European binoculars have the built-in yellow, in their optics, to cut through haze.
http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/003587
Hunters, for example, use yellow eyeglasses, for target practice, under cloudy skies.
Yellow Filter
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/Japan
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/Japan
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/Japan
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (07/21/08 10:47 PM)
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 431
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This has been discussed before, here and in at least two other binocular enthusiast sites ( one now defunct), and the consensus has been that Soviet/Russian glass is yellow because of quality control problems, not because of haze penetration, radiation protection, etc. Possibly misguided or oddball engineering? Would you want yellow images in low light situations, if clear images were available? I would not.
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hallelujah
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1435
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
Would you want yellow images in low light situations, if clear images were available? I would not.
Obviously there ARE those folks out there who DO want the results from yellow filters and or/optics, otherwise there would not be a market for same.
Fujinon as well as IOR and Leupold ALL sell yellow filters for their binoculars.
Obviously SOMEONE (optics manufacturers and optics customers) feels that there IS a legitimate application for the use of same.
Here are other possible answers:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=71911
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/ior7x40.html
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/Japan
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/Japan
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/Japan
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
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