sabir
sage
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 455
Loc: Pune (India)
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I am looking for my first pair of binoculars. I have gone through the sticky thread on the top of this forum and it has helped me in concluding what my needs are. Now all I need is which brand and model should I go for which would best suit my needs.
I have an Orion XT10i, which is my first and only scope. I am looking for a pair of binoculars to complement this scope. I hope to use the bino for learning the constellations and also as a finder in tandem with the scope. I would also like to use them for terrestrial observation and for camping, trekking etc, so they need to be waterproof. From what I’ve read, I feel a pair of 10X50 binoculars would be perfect for my needs. My budget is around $200, but I may be able to stretch it a bit for something exceptional.
The very little research I’ve done has lead me to two contenders:
1. Pentax 10 X 50 PCF WP II Binoculars. http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=108-110-647-1080-8843
2. Nikon USA - 10 X 50 Action Extreme ATB Binoculars
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=108-110-647-676-1218-8691
Currently, I’m leaning towards the Pentax (…I know its stupid, but I have a 10mm Pentax XW and I love it  ), but if the consensus were that the Nikon is a better deal, I would go for the Nikon.
If there is any other pair that better suits my needs, I would really appreciate it if you could guide me to it.
Thanks,
Sabir 
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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The Pentax PCF WP II lists a FOV of 261'. (narrower, but generally sharper out to the edges).
The Nikon AE ATB lists a FOV of 341'. (complaints of softness around the edges).
The Pentax have aspherical eyepiece elements.
The Nikon's do not.
The Pentax optics are FMC.
The Nikon optics are MC.
The Pentax binoculars have a JIS Class 6 waterproof rating. (internal focusing)
The Nikon binoculars do not disclose their waterproof rating.
The Pentax have a focus lock.
The Nikon's do not.
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1770
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (05/24/08 11:52 PM)
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charen
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/28/05
Posts: 771
Loc: New Zealand
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From the reviews you will know they both rate highly. One of the issues you have mentioned is ‘I hope to use the bino for learning the constellations and also as a finder in tandem with the scope’. Initially you would want to go for the bino that offers the wider FOV which on paper is the Nikon. The Nikon 10x50 AE's have a 6.5 degree FOV and an Afov of 65 degrees. The Pentax have a 5 degree FOV and a narrower 50 degree Afov. However [there’s always a however!] In a older [2004] review by Edz. He recommends the Pentax above the Nikons “as the Pentax has a sharper wide field image” and the “Pentax has a wider usable field of view”. This also confirms Hallelujahs comments above.
Having used both over the last few months I do tend to agree the Pentax have the edge optically and ergonomically however [there it is again!] personally speaking I do also like the more ‘panoramic’ image the Nikons do offer even though there is increased peripheral edge distortions. For scanning the skies and learning the constellations the wider FOV may suit you better and 'tip the balance'. Ideally if you could use both prior to actually buying you would make a more informed decision. Reading about them is OK to narrow the choice down but using a bino is a personal thing and really you should use both at night so you can make the right choice for you. In the end both will offer you good images at very good value.
http://www.cloudynights.com/documents/nikon.pdf
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35 binos.
80mm Cat.
WO66ED
SV NH 80mm / EQ3
Meade 8in.LX90
Skywatcher Equinox ED120 / Goto HEQ5.
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
The Nikon 10x50 AE's have a 6.5 degree FOV and an Afov of 65 degrees.
charen,
Nikon 2007 catalog shows AFOV at 65.
Nikon 2008 catalog shows AFOV at 59.2.  Must be a typo. Or maybe not, EdZ shows actual 6.1 degrees FOV. 
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (05/25/08 02:49 AM)
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charen
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/28/05
Posts: 771
Loc: New Zealand
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Hi! Nikon have moved to a 'new' method of measuring Afov, which is based on the on the 'ISO 14132-1:2002' and gives a 'narrower' frame of reference so peripheral distortion is not measured.
I found this out when reviewing the 10x56 Nikon Monarchs recently. EdZ. measurements I presume go on the actual measured FOV and lens diameter of 48mm's - not 50mm.
I was using the non Nikon method to measure Afov - TFOV [6.5] x mag [10x] = Afov - 65 degrees.
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/binoculars/Number/2269507/page/7/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
http://www.nikon.com/products/sportoptics/lineup/binoculars/standard/ex_x35x40x50/index.htm
[At bottom of page]
Edited by charen (05/25/08 05:14 AM)
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10031
Loc: Lancashire UK
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As an only pair of all - round hand - held binoculars , for " learning the constellations " and daytime use , I would prefer and recommend a 8 x 42 with a TFOV of at least 7 degrees ahead of a 10 x 50 with a TFOV of around 6 degrees .
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
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Quote:
As an only pair of all - round hand - held binoculars , for " learning the constellations " ...
I think that the OP can choose the expensive way, a pair of Miyauchi 5x32 (elusive to find ... still waiting for someone to buy them for me in Japan), or the cheap one: a pair of Bushnell XtraWide 5x25, that can be found on eBay for about 40 USD or a bit more.
I own one of them, and their major fault is their reduced "focus past infinity", that makes impossible to me to focus without my eyeglasses, due to my myopia.
An advantage is that, with their reversed Porro design, I was able to focus a whole head from about 7' ... quite a unique feature.
Their optical quality is, as I can judge (not a very affordable opinion), "mean" or "above mean".
I hope other producers will make similar models for this forgotten, niche segment; If Nikon will make a 5x35 or 4x30 EDG, I think i'll cut my venoms to have one! ;-)
Have a nice day.
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4213
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Quote:
As an only pair of all - round hand - held binoculars , for " learning the constellations " and daytime use , I would prefer and recommend a 8 x 42 with a TFOV of at least 7 degrees ahead of a 10 x 50 with a TFOV of around 6 degrees .
Kenny
I would agree with Kenny. The 10x50s may be best for astronomy, but a 7-8x with 40-44mm would be lighter, have a larger FOV, and be a better binocular for terrestrial use.
If at all possible go to a binocular store (optics, astronomy, sporting goods) and try out different binoculars and see which ones you like and feel better in your hands.
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Nick Lloyd
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 1565
Loc: cincinnati
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I find the slightly wider field of view (Nikons) to be more comfortable.
Have you considered the Nikon Action Extreme 8x40? Very wide angle... you really feel like you are "out there" in space... although it is not 100% sharp across the field of view.
As far as weight goes... any bino under 35 oz. will be easy to deal with for first-timers.
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"The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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sabir
sage
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 455
Loc: Pune (India)
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Hi guys !! thank you for all your replys.
I would like to try before I buy, but these models are not available here. As a matter of fact, I dont know of any dedicated telsecope or sport optics shop here  ... The market in India for these things is miniscule!
So I'll have to go by what I read here... I tried that with my XT10i and I'm very happy with it... thats what makes CN a great place! 
... any case there are a few stores that keep a few binoculars. I'll go and have a look to get an Idea about the size difference between a 8X40 and a 10X50 if its available! 
Keep those suggestion comming 
Thanks again,
Sabir
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10031
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Thanks Sabir !
Actually getting binoculars in YOUR hands and in front of YOUR eyes is by far the best way to find what fits your preferences .
Keep in touch and let us know what you think !
Good luck
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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doug76
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 1946
Loc: 30.8N 90.0W
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Well, they probably won't take a dunking, but I have had them out in fog and rain, when fishing or hunting. I refer to my Nikon Action 10x50's, bought at Cabela's, for $100. Dang fine binos, sharp, very sharp.
Doug
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sabir
sage
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 455
Loc: Pune (India)
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How about these:
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/ultra50.htm
they are more expenisve, but I dont mind saving for longer if they are significantly better.
Sabir
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Here is another make & model, similar to the other:
http://www.garrettoptical.com/High-Definition-10x50-Waterproof-Binoculars-p/s50hd-wp.htm
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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ronharper
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 964
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Sabir,
I had a 10x50 with a 5 degree field, like the Pentax you are considering. It is easy to get lost in the sky with a field that narrow. A 10x50 is so powerful that it will show very many more stars than you can see naked eye, and with such a narrow field it's harder to relate the very bright stars that serve as "signposts" to where you are looking, so you won't know where you are are half the time. If you really want the depth of a 10x50, I would recommend the larger field of the AE over the better field correction of the Pentax for that reason.
But Kenny is right about the 8x40 size as the ideal all round binocular. If my only pursuit was astronomy, and my only instrument was a binocular, I'd choose a 10x50. But as a "complement to the scope" the 8x40 would go sufficiently deep to provide good alternative views of very dispersed objects, and the wide field would be easier to use. For terrestial use, the 8x40 would be handy and quick, whereas a 10x50 seems big, heavy, and cumbersome.
Ron
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10031
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Sabir ,
Before you get TOO excited about the waterproofing and robustness of those binouclars with individual focus , please don't overlook the fact that for most types of terrestrial viewing , they are a pain in the posterior :-)
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7318
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
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Them Ultra's sure look like the Orion Resolux, don't they??
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Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10031
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Them Ultra's sure look like the Orion Resolux, don't they?? >
Pete ,
That could be something to do with them being one and the same item ! :-)
Clear Skies
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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doug76
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 1946
Loc: 30.8N 90.0W
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Quote:
How about these:
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/ultra50.htm
they are more expenisve, but I dont mind saving for longer if they are significantly better.
Sabir
The specs look good, but the weight bad. Too heavy, unless your going to mount them.
Doug
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Trucker, Astronomer, Fisherman
Meade 12" Lightbridge w/Dob Driver II
Celestron C6S OTA
Celestron C6R OTA
Celestron Omni XLT150 OTA
Astro-Tech AT80EDT (coming soon)
Celestron CG5-ASGT mount
Celestron Omni XLT CG-4 mount
Celestron Nexstar SE mount (6SE/8SE type)
Celestron Nexstar SE mount (4SE/5SE type)
Meade 5K SWA 34mm
Televue Panoptic 24mm
Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm
Televue Plossl 32mm
BO/TMB Planetary 9mm, 5mm, 4mm, 3.2mm, 2.5mm
Astro-Tech diagonals
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doug76
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 1946
Loc: 30.8N 90.0W
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Quote:
Here is another make & model, similar to the other:
http://www.garrettoptical.com/High-Definition-10x50-Waterproof-Binoculars-p/s50hd-wp.htm
Again, good specs, and heavy.
Doug
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Trucker, Astronomer, Fisherman
Meade 12" Lightbridge w/Dob Driver II
Celestron C6S OTA
Celestron C6R OTA
Celestron Omni XLT150 OTA
Astro-Tech AT80EDT (coming soon)
Celestron CG5-ASGT mount
Celestron Omni XLT CG-4 mount
Celestron Nexstar SE mount (6SE/8SE type)
Celestron Nexstar SE mount (4SE/5SE type)
Meade 5K SWA 34mm
Televue Panoptic 24mm
Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm
Televue Plossl 32mm
BO/TMB Planetary 9mm, 5mm, 4mm, 3.2mm, 2.5mm
Astro-Tech diagonals
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