kcolter
member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 49
Loc: Missouri, USA
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I have a Nikon 20X120 that I love as a binocular but have not been able to mount to my satisfaction. This is not the current version III, but an earlier version with trunions. Does anyone know a machinist that would be willing to undertake the task of making a fork that would accept the trunions on this binocular. I will probably put the fork on a Hercules tripod that I have. Thanks for any suggestions.
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Nick Lloyd
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 1536
Loc: cincinnati
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Tim Hagan of Helix Mfg (Hercules) can't do it?
-------------------- "The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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zx12
super member
   
Reged: 12/29/05
Posts: 153
Loc: Rhode Island
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I might be able to help you out with this project. Send me a PM if you are still in need of a mount and we'll see what can be done.
Mike
-------------------- AP 160 Starfire/AP 1200GTO
Stellarvue SV809D
Vixen BT 125 HFT-MA
Oberwerk BT 100/45
Tak 22x60 Astronomer
Nikon 10x70 FMT-SX
Leica 8-12x42 Duovid
WO 66mm SD
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kcolter
member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 49
Loc: Missouri, USA
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Quote:
Tim Hagan of Helix Mfg (Hercules) can't do it?
We communicated about 18 months ago, I sent him a trunion, and unfortunately after consulting with his staff they were unable to do it.
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Have you tried a parallelogram mount ? The Universal Astronomics p-mount for the Fujinon 25 x 150 model II could be adapted to the Nikon 20 x 120 II . Perhaps you would remove the trunnions and attach a cradle to the tapped holes which held the trunnions. Such a cradle could be aluminum, or oak or eurobeech from Home Depot. I recently completed a four sided oak inner cradle, with Delrin trunnions, to fit 10 x 80 binocs to my all-metal aluminum box tube fork mount(no welding) which was made for the Fuji 25 x 150 I ( with trunnions) and the Nikon 20 x 120 I or II, such as you have. The inner cradle trunnions were sawn from stock Delrin rod, and the central holes to be tapped were drilled in a drill press while held vertically in a V-block on the drill press table, then tapped 3/8-16. Or, the cradle could be attached via boards or aluminum channel , box, or angle; such pieces spanning over and under the two barrels, on the upper and the lower sides, and clamping the barrels via a central bolt with a wingnut. The taper of the barrels will aid fixation. I have started to experiment with slotted PVC pipe, in Schedule 40 and 80, as azimuth bearings for the Quick Set Hercules and Gibraltar, following the lead of Mr. Andrews' push-to parallelogram mounts in this forum. My project is only half-baked, however. Most of the difficulty in fork mounts is the attachment of the fork ends to trunnions. One can simplify,using pieces of aluminum angle, perhaps lined with plastic or leather or hardwood, and then captivating the trunnions with something to press the trunnion into the vee. That is the method I use. Gravity provides much of the force.A piece of rope might be used as the retainer.
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2297
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Gordon- Your projects sound fascinating... I'm having a tough time visualizing- would love to see this project... any way you could post some pictures of it?
-------------------- Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Will try . Any particular emphasis ? My fork -to- trunnion setup has been to RTMC several times. It is based on a milling machine clamp design, with heel post fitting in a spherical socket made with a round burr ( Harbor Freight has some burrs). A photo might scare off some, as there are several adjustments. Setscrews, tapped holes, thumbscrews. All this to allow pressing a wide variety of diameters into the interior right angle of the 90 deg aluminum angle pieces sawn from aluminum angle extrusion. I did some milling also. There surely is a simpler way to hold trunnions in a vee, particularly for one size only of trunnion diameter.....wood block bored to size of trunnion?? I have done that with Delrin and aluminum blocks, which are tapped to accept retaining thumbscrews passing through one leg of the angle bracket attached to the fork arm. One could use threaded knife edge inserts in wood. The key to their use is a guide bolt sliding in a guide block with a relief hole to allow the insert to start threading when flush with the material into which it is to be threaded. The insert will thus thread in straight , as the bolt is turned.
The slotted PVC electrial conduit to Quick-Set Hercules or Gibraltar column, as a no -lathe- required azimuth bearing, is not fully explored, but I am certain that it will work. One can adjust the friction with hose clamps. It is note worthy that the cited Quick-Set tripods have elevating columns whose diameters match stock Delrin round stock diameters-- one need only saw off the length of Delrin required to take vertical loads and connect to the cross-member of the fork, perhaps add a Teflon washer, and surround this stub and some of the column with one or more (concentric) shell(s) of C- shaped lengths of PVC electrical conduit schedule 80 and/or 40, ff. Mr. Andrews' push-to parallelogram design. So far, I have fitted PVC to a Hercules column lubricated with Jig-A-Loo. A cross -bolt or setscrew(s) will join the PVC shell(s) to the vertical load bearing stub . A chop saw or miter saw will allow a clean, perpendicular cutoff of the plastic (or aluminum) stub, or have the plastic or aluminum dealer saw it. Lengthwise slotting of the the PVC electrical conduit seems potentially dangerous, so attention should be paid to proper fixtures, or saw it by hand. I lack a table saw. Plastic pipe contracts when sawn lengthwise, so can grab the blade when the cut is finishing.
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2297
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Quote:
Will try . Any particular emphasis
Thanks, Gordon- No, no emphasis in particular, just a general overall view or two of it would be great. And no need to apologize for the extra holes or adjustments! Simply appreciate a chance to see it- and get a better idea of some of the concepts you discussed. I'm very much a visual learner. Wes
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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I have not set up to take the photos yet. But had more thought about trunnion mating and mating tripod columns.
Bore a hardwood block in a metal cutting lathe or a wood lathe, or use a Fortner bit in a drill press. Find PVC conduit or aluminum pipe which mates the trunnion. ( If you are not equipped to bore the pipe to size, then slot it, so that it can expand/contract to fit the trunnion. Then glue the aluminum sleeve in the wood block. The glue can fill any mismatch between the sleeve and the hole. One would probably make the sleeve before making the hole in the wood block.
It may be that a standard aluminum tube size will fit the tripod columns without any machining. I have been told that this is so to a sufficient approximation for long sleeves for the Hercules. The item thus mounted was a WW II 20 x 120.
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Here are some photos which Wes requested. The elevation bearing clamps are similar to milling machine table clamps. One can see similar principles applied in the Carr-Lane ( St. Louis, Mo.)fixture parts catalog. The mated, slightly rusty spherical washer pair under the locking knob ( one has one convex face, the other has one concave face) allow clamping through a wide angular rangeto accomodate a range of trunnion diameters. The slot in the top clamp allows fore-aft adjustment. The heel post is a button head or other rounded head screw, whose convex head fits in a concave cavity in the heel of the top clamp. The pressure pad which presses the trunnion is Delrin-AF. The trunnion is Delrin rod. It can be cut squarely in a chopsaw/ miter saw/miter box, then drilled axially in a lathe or in a v-block on a drill press table, then tapped. I used 3/8-16 for attachment to the oak cradle and for the handle(not shown) attachment 2- fluted thumbscrews. The fork is 2 x 3 x 1/8 aluminum box tube, surplus from the BART light rail project in San Francisco in the 1970's, I removed the paint, shined them, and then Alodined them. The fork arms adjust in and out to accomodate various loads, up to 25 x 150 Fuji I ( with trunnions), about 65 lbs, and including the Nikon I, II, and III 20 x 120, such as Kim Colter has. The azimuth bearing is two mated magnesium cones. I also made some cylindrical aluminum versions.
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Another photo
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Corner joint of fork
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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binoc, cradle, fork
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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More
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Binoc in mount
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Rear of binoc
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2297
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Gordon- Thanks for posting these pictures- as they say, a picture's worth a thousand words! There's no way I could have verbally described this intricate and imaginative mount! Wes
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kcolter
member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 49
Loc: Missouri, USA
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Gordon Many thanks for posting the pictures. I now have a better sense of what's possible.
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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To make trunnion holding blocks, one should consider the techniques used by Dobsonian builders. There is now a thread on p. 2 of the DIY section of this site, titled something like" How do you make split blocks". That problem is more complicated than for simple binocular trunnion location/ clamping, because the truss poles enter the blocks at angles other than 90 deg. Are they compound angles? Forstner bits, improvised sanding drums , split PVC or aluminum sleeves, threaded inserts for clamping and attachment to the fork or to aluminum angle brackets attached to the fork, are a few of the applicable ideas. Blocks made of ordinary fir or redwood lumber, glued double if required, should suffice with a PVC or aluminum split sleeve. Stain and varnish to make it pretty. For clamping action , particularly if sleeveless, hardwood seems a better choice.
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Littlegreenman
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 923
Loc: Southern California
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Here. It's easier than turning my monitor on it's side! I had to do this... I'm xysledic, uh, dyslexic. When I see sideways images I turn my head the wrong way. Really annoying! I also compulsively straighten crooked pictures on the wall.
LGM
Edited by Littlegreenman (07/10/08 03:47 AM)
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Littlegreenman
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 923
Loc: Southern California
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Part two...
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
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Kim: Have you considered the Berry pattern? The Florida telescope collimation tool people mounted a binocular on one, which appeared in an issue of Richard Berry's magazine Telescope Making (defunct). Rather than look that up, you can get the idea from the pictures in the current entry in the neighbor forum just above this one , the DIY forum. See "DIY mount-Altaz1(reflector)", for attractive CAD(?) renderings.
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kcolter
member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 49
Loc: Missouri, USA
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Thanks, Gordon, for pointing me in the direction of the Berry pattern. I have been slow to respond due to traveling.
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