Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
I am thinking of buy a pair of 25x100 binoculars, but before I buy, I was wondering if forum members could help me a couple of questions?.
I'm still a relative novice, and I was wondering if the narrow 2.5 degree fov, would make it difficult for me to navigate around the sky?. I do have a planisphere, but I still have some trouble.
Also, I was wondering if these binoculars would be especially bad at cutting through light pollution?. I live in NW England, where light pollution is bad, though I do already have a 10" dob.
I spotted these on ebay, they're sold by Telescope Service of Germany, which has a good reputation in Europe. I'm not absolutely sure, but I think there Oberwerk binoculars under a different name. here the link: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TS-GIANT--BINOCULARS--25-x-100---Light-Gathering-Giant_W0QQitemZ370060365649QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806141117a8863
Best wishes
Stephen
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4104
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compared to smaller binoculars the 2.5 degree FOV will seem small, but compared to the 10" dob, the field will be big.
you do not say anything about previous experience with binoculars-I would suggest a 40-50mm binocular first, the 70-80mm before going to the 100mm binoculars
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
At the moment, I just have a cheap pair of 10x50's,They're at least thirty years old, and I've never been able to see much through them - so I don't have much experience. I do own a good tripod though. In the UK, its known by the name Manfrotto, I think Americans know it by the trade name Bogen.
Thanks for the info on the fov, I wasn't aware that it was actually large than a 10" scope.
Edited by Stephen.S (06/21/08 09:29 PM)
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1679
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Using large binoculars on a tripod is...well... a bit of a pain in the neck... literally, but as long as you can deal with that and realize that looking at objects near the Zenith will be problematic, it will work quite well. A p-mount works wonderfully with big binoculars, but they are indeed expensive.
As long as the binoculars are reasonably well-collimated, or have the ability to allow the end user to collimate them, the central sharpness is usually pretty good, even in inexpensive binoculars.
The FOV is small enough that it will indeed cause some issues locating objects - most people end up using a laser pointer or red-dot finder on binoculars this large. I find a laser ideal for binoculars, but you have to be sure they are something you can use (and in public, other users may not appreciate it).
They are definitely a very different "animal" from using a scope - suggestions here about using smaller binoculars first are certainly well-founded, but I jumped almost immediately to a pair of 25x100's and found them to be just wonderful for finding Messier objects, etc. (but then again, I am blessed with relatively dark skies). Heavy light pollution may make them disappointing - if there is any opportunity to look through binoculars like this ahead of time, such as at some star party, that would be highly recommended.
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
Thanks for that. I was hoping to use them for wildlife observing too. I live near a bird sanctuary, where birds from Northern Europe and Canada spend the winter.
As for the light pollution, I've learned to just accept what I can see and not to worry about the things I can't do anything about. I can get away to a dark site about three times a year, which helps a lot.
Stephen
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
Just wondering if anybody can confirm that my link is actually Oberwerk binoculars?. If so, is there any way of telling if they are the current model?
Stephen
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hallelujah
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1419
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
I was hoping to use them for wildlife observing too. I live near a bird sanctuary, where birds from Northern Europe and Canada spend the winter.
Stephen
Stephen,
Coincidentally, I purchased a 25x100mm last year with the very same intention of using it during the daytime for birds. It was a disaster, way too much CA and too much weight.
Another thing, mounting a 10 pound binocular on a heavy duty tripod and head (Manfrotto 3246 tripod and 503 HDV head) is absolutely no fun to lug around for birdwatching.
Shipping a 25x100mm can be very hard on collimation as well.
I would not recommend anything bigger than 80mm for birding.
80mm cuts the weight in half and is much less of a burden to carry around in the field.
Also, the optics are more forgiving on an 80mm binocular compared to the 100mm. Less CA, less flaring, less coma.
Here is a link for a 30x80mm:
http://www.claritas-online.co.uk/products/observation_binoculars.htm
Stan
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/Japan
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/Japan
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/Japan
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (06/22/08 02:30 AM)
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Stan,
Thanks for the link. This is something that I'll obviously have to think about. I certainly was hoping to go birding with them. The weight wouldn't have been too much of a problem, as I would have just found a location at the bank of the lake and stayed their. The CA is a bigger problem, I thought that Oberwerk 25x100's were up to that task, which is why I wanted to know if my link were those partcular brand.
Following advice from this forum, I'm now wondering weather I should abandon the idea. I feel if I'm going to buy, I must use them enough to justify the expense.
Best wishes
Stephen
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9960
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Stephen ,
Before dismissing the idea out of hand , given your familiarity with narrow true fields of view , I have a hunch that to satisfy your curiosity , you would be far better off trying a Pentax PCF 20 x 60 , rather than any of these lumbering giants .
It would certainly be a more practical alternative for your daytime observations , attached to your Manfrotto tripod .
Kind Regards
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 507
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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I was just luck enough to get a 22x60 miyauchi plieades binocular .The optics are exellent .
They weigh less than some 80mm spotting scopes.
I believe they are the perfect mounted birding binos.
If of course you are lucky enough to locate a pair.
Took me several months to find these.
It was well worth it though.I know im going to love these bins.
Brian.
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9960
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Brian ,
I just KNEW you would love those Miyauchi binoculars !
Indeed , I almost suggested the same for Stephen to consider , but for some reason , I had ( perhaps mistakenly ) thought that Stephen was looking for something in the sub £250 range , here in the UK .
Regards
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 507
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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Yes Kenny i think they may bury me with these along with the Swaro 56x60.
The Saturn 2 with 22 & 40 ep,s should arrive from Colorado on Wed . Thanks to another Brian & astromart.
Brian.
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9960
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Brian ,
I'm sure you meant to type Swaro 15 x 56 there ? :-)
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 507
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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Yes Kenny im getting Swaro & Miyas mixed up .
To much exitement probably.
Brian.
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
Yes, Kenny is right, my budget would be £250 - £300. Binoculars for astronomical use would be my priority, so perhaps I should consider two pairs.
Telescope Service say that there 25x100's are suitable for day time use to, so given this company's high reputation in Europe, its a shame that this infomation seems to be misleading.
Stephen
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9960
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Stephen ,
Of all the claims and counter claims you may read about binoculars , I can think of none more varied or difficult to prove or disprove than those concerning chromatic aberration .
In more than 40 years I've yet to look through ANY binoculars that hasn't displayed CA , and of the several I currently own , the worst culprit is a 20 x 90 .
Even stopping it down to 50mm doesn't completely remove it either -- yet some people seem hardly to ever notice or complain about the problem in ANY binoculars they have .
You never know , you could be one of the lucky ones who doesn't seem to notice it , but in any event , individual eyepiece focus is hardly best suited for daytime observation , that I CAN tell you .
Considering TWO pairs is a great idea , but with a top limit of £300 for BOTH , you are increasing your chances of disappointment further still , in my opinion .
Good luck
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 507
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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I got my Miyauchis on astromart for $550 [275 pounds]
& they are worth every penny [cent]
Brian
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
Thanks for that Kenny. I'll probably buy the 25x100's for around £250 for astronomical use, then I'll wait to buy a second pair for birding.
The wildlife reserve that I was talking about earlier is Martin Mere, and of course, the main interest their occurs during the autumn and winter months, so I've got plenty of time to buy a second pair.
As for chromatic aberration - I'm use to poor quality consumer type binoculars, so I expect I won't notice it very much. In fact, I've never even looked through a good quality pair.
I've never relly been comforable looking through my telescope with one eye, so mybe I'm one of those people who prefers binocular viewing. And I didn't evern realise that I would get a wider view than with my 10" telescope!
Thanks for all the good advice.
Stephen
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9960
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Stephen ,
You ought to pop in to the In Focus shed at Martin Mere .
They always have a good selection of binoculars ( including top end Zeiss , Nikon roofs etc. ) and spotting scopes set -up in there , with which you can look through the open slats at the lake etc.
There is a nominal " admission charge " but that is totally refundable after about an hour's " free viewing " .
They have a lot of Opticron binoculars there -- some are very good indeed for hand - held viewing .
Good luck !
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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milt
sage
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 400
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
I was wondering if the narrow 2.5 degree fov, would make it difficult for me to navigate around the sky?
Hi Stephen,
In my experience the answer to that question is "no." I have found it pretty easy to locate a known bright star with mounted 2-3 degree binoculars and then star hop from there. Two factors make this possible: 1) The image is correct (i.e. not inverted or L-R reversed) and 2) the binocular will not change position while you pause to consult your star chart. I did a Messier marathon a few years ago with a 2.2 degree field binocular and never felt the need for a finder. At 1.3 degrees it definitely takes me longer to find that first star but I have been too lazy to add a finder.
Clear skies,
Milt
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